Re: [RE-wrenches] Minimum bus size, new requirements

[William Miller via RE-wrenches]

Lloyd:



Thank you so much for forwarding these links.  This should have been on my
radar.  You saved me some time searching this out.  For those who may not
be totally up-to-speed on these regulations, they make some interesting
reading.



Some will undoubtedly call them burdensome, but it in my opinion many of
the concepts are well-founded.  For example, I have been known to whine
when roof area is not available for solar panels.  This is addressed.  I
have also been pretty pathetic when breaker space is not available for
back-feed,  This too is addressed.  Segregated, essential load panel?  It’s
in there.  There are a lot of provisions that will make it easier to do our
jobs.



Reading through this mandate may raise hackles for some who do not like to
be told how to do their jobs.  We all know it is difficult to adapt to new
regulations.  Having just skimmed them, I like what is being laid down.



William



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985





*From:* Lloyd Hoffstatter [mailto:ll...@sunstruckconsulting.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, March 28, 2024 11:34 AM
*To:* will...@millersolar.com; RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Minimum bus size, new requirements



William,



Here is the CA Energy Code with the upsized busbar requirements under solar
/ ess readiness:



https://title24energyreports.com/articles/basic-facts-changes-2022-energy-code.php



Best regard

Title 24: 2022 Energy Code - Basic Facts | CompuCalc


Summary of changes and updates in the 2022 California Energy Code

title24energyreports.com





Lloyd Hoffstatter, M.S. Applied Solar Energy

Inaugural NABCEP Cetrified PV Installer Emeritus

Director, Sunstruck Consulting

ll...@sunstruckconsulting.com

845-657-8132 (office)

914-844-3404 (cell)


--

*From:* RE-wrenches  on behalf
of William Miller via RE-wrenches 
*Sent:* Thursday, March 28, 2024 1:00 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Cc:* William Miller 
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Minimum bus size, new requirements



Friends:



A local building official recently wrote this:



This is to comply with the new codes (California Energy Code and the Nation
Electric Code) that require this minimum buss rating regardless of the
service size or main size.



The new code allegedly requires a minimum bus rating of 225A in all new
services of 200A rating or less.



Do any of you know what new code this might be?



Thanks in advance for your time.



William



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com


CA Lic. 773985
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] AEE closing down operations

[Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches]

I am going to miss AEE! first Brad retires and now shutdown. 36 years buying 
from AEE.
Lots of friendships over the years; Brad Bassett, Glenn Hall, Leslie Cannon, 
Eric Carpenter & folks I cannot recall names of at the moment from further 
back. Man, the times they are a changing.

I guess the question is: WESCO or ? Where are people gravitating to? I get a 
minimum of 2-3 wholesale contacts per week.
Who is carrying Snap’nRack besides AEE?


Dana Orzel – 2087217003 – 76dan...@gmail.com

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Jeremy Coxon via RE-wrenches
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2024 2:27 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Cc: Jeremy Coxon 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] AEE closing down operations

I’m not going to editorialize about this, other than to say - what a damn shame 
to get this note in my inbox today.  19 years I’ve been buying from them and 
I’m sure some you on this list for much longer.  Talk about losing sight of the 
mission.

[cid:81A92772-990C-4ED4-9D49-44CE7279AD38]

Dear Valued Customer,



We hope this message finds you well. It is with a heavy heart that we reach out 
to share an important update regarding the future of AEE Solar. After careful 
consideration, we've made the difficult decision to wind down AEE’s operations 
over the next 36 days, with a tentative closing date of May 3rd, 2024. Please 
be aware that this date may be subject to change, and we will keep you informed 
of any updates.



As a result, we are offering attractive clearance pricing on the majority of 
our inventory over the next month, which we encourage you to take advantage of.



We understand that this news might come as a surprise. Our Customer Support 
Team and Territory Sales Managers are available to address any questions or 
concerns you may have during this time. We are committed to transparency and 
will keep you informed throughout the process, including confirmation of the 
final closing date, well in advance.



If you purchase SnapNrack products from AEE, please reach out to your Territory 
Sales Manager to explore opportunities to purchase directly from SnapNrack 
going forward.



We want to express our sincere gratitude for your ongoing support. It has been 
a privilege serving you, and we wish you continued success. We look forward to 
serving you during this wind-down period.



Sincerely,

The AEE Solar Team
Jeremy Coxon NABCEP
Certified MWBE

Sent from my iPhone
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] AEE closing down operations

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

For me, it was changing policy to not taking my clients credit card with 
pre-approval and not taking their check after it cleared their bank.


Too many choices out there.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-03-28 1:46 pm, Richard Nicol via RE-wrenches wrote:

Probably too many of us stopped using them when they partnered with Sun 
Run.


Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 28, 2024, at 4:27 PM, Jeremy Coxon via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


I'm not going to editorialize about this, other than to say - what a 
damn shame to get this note in my inbox today.  19 years I've been 
buying from them and I'm sure some you on this list for much longer.  
Talk about losing sight of the mission.


<8c86e00d-c831-fc63-debe-484f5b9af308.jpg>

Dear Valued Customer,

We hope this message finds you well. It is with a heavy heart that we 
reach out to share an important update regarding the future of AEE 
Solar. After careful consideration, we've made the difficult decision 
to wind down AEE's operations over the next 36 days, with a tentative 
closing date of May 3rd, 2024. Please be aware that this date may be 
subject to change, and we will keep you informed of any updates.


As a result, we are offering attractive clearance pricing on the 
majority of our inventory over the next month, which we encourage you 
to take advantage of.


We understand that this news might come as a surprise. Our Customer 
Support Team and Territory Sales Managers are available to address any 
questions or concerns you may have during this time. We are committed 
to transparency and will keep you informed throughout the process, 
including confirmation of the final closing date, well in advance.


If you purchase SnapNrack products from AEE, please reach out to your 
Territory Sales Manager to explore opportunities to purchase directly 
from SnapNrack going forward.


We want to express our sincere gratitude for your ongoing support. It 
has been a privilege serving you, and we wish you continued success. 
We look forward to serving you during this wind-down period.


Sincerely,

The AEE Solar Team

Jeremy Coxon NABCEP
Certified MWBE
Sent from my iPhone ___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try 
the other:

https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org


___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try 
the other:

https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org



Links:
--
[1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[2] https://offgridsolar1.com/___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] eGauge login info for Blue Planet owners

[Mick Abraham via RE-wrenches]

Hi, Mechanics~ Blue Planet gave us a whole three days notice before
shutting down their customer facing web monitor.

The handy BPE_eGauge Guide   .pdf file to help with our transition failed
to include the username & password that end users need in order to get
their data direct from eGauge.

If any of the Wrenchies need this for their installed customer base,
contact me off list. The Wrench List is the Bomb!

Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com

Landline: 970-731-4675
Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584
ᐧ
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] AEE closing down operations

[Richard Nicol via RE-wrenches]

Probably too many of us stopped using them when they partnered with Sun Run. Sent from my iPhoneOn Mar 28, 2024, at 4:27 PM, Jeremy Coxon via RE-wrenches  wrote:I’m not going to editorialize about this, other than to say - what a damn shame to get this note in my inbox today.  19 years I’ve been buying from them and I’m sure some you on this list for much longer.  Talk about losing sight of the mission.<8c86e00d-c831-fc63-debe-484f5b9af308.jpg>Dear Valued Customer,We hope this message finds you well. It is with a heavy heart that we reach out to share an important update regarding the future of AEE Solar. After careful consideration, we've made the difficult decision to wind down AEE’s operations over the next 36 days, with a tentative closing date of May 3rd, 2024. Please be aware that this date may be subject to change, and we will keep you informed of any updates.As a result, we are offering attractive clearance pricing on the majority of our inventory over the next month, which we encourage you to take advantage of.We understand that this news might come as a surprise. Our Customer Support Team and Territory Sales Managers are available to address any questions or concerns you may have during this time. We are committed to transparency and will keep you informed throughout the process, including confirmation of the final closing date, well in advance.If you purchase SnapNrack products from AEE, please reach out to your Territory Sales Manager to explore opportunities to purchase directly from SnapNrack going forward.We want to express our sincere gratitude for your ongoing support. It has been a privilege serving you, and we wish you continued success. We look forward to serving you during this wind-down period.Sincerely,The AEE Solar TeamJeremy Coxon NABCEP Certified MWBESent from my iPhone___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Minimum bus size, new requirements

[Ray Walters via RE-wrenches]

So to be clear, the inspector is wrong:  it is NOT an NEC requirement.  
It is only a California requirement.   NEC 2023 only requires a 100 A 
main load center and disconnect per 225.39(C). Further, 710.15(A) allows 
the inverter and feeder to the Load center to be even less in off grid 
applications.   The rest of us in the other 49 states are Not required 
to comply with the 200 A requirement.



Good Luck out there.


Thank you,


Ray Walters
Remote Solar



On 3/28/2024 12:33 PM, Lloyd Hoffstatter via RE-wrenches wrote:

William,

Here is the CA Energy Code with the upsized busbar requirements under 
solar / ess readiness:


https://title24energyreports.com/articles/basic-facts-changes-2022-energy-code.php

Best regard
Title 24: 2022 Energy Code - Basic Facts | CompuCalc 


Summary of changes and updates in the 2022 California Energy Code
title24energyreports.com



Lloyd Hoffstatter, M.S. Applied Solar Energy

Inaugural NABCEP Cetrified PV Installer Emeritus

Director, Sunstruck Consulting

ll...@sunstruckconsulting.com

845-657-8132 (office)

914-844-3404 (cell)


*From:* RE-wrenches  on 
behalf of William Miller via RE-wrenches 


*Sent:* Thursday, March 28, 2024 1:00 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Cc:* William Miller 
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Minimum bus size, new requirements

Friends:

A local building official recently wrote this:

This is to comply with the new codes (California Energy Code and the 
Nation Electric Code) that require this minimum buss rating regardless 
of the service size or main size.


The new code allegedly requires a minimum bus rating of 225A in all 
new services of 200A rating or less.


Do any of you know what new code this might be?

Thanks in advance for your time.

William

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com 



CA Lic. 773985


___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org

List Address:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] AEE closing down operations

[Jeremy Coxon via RE-wrenches]

I’m not going to editorialize about this, other than to say - what a damn shame to get this note in my inbox today.  19 years I’ve been buying from them and I’m sure some you on this list for much longer.  Talk about losing sight of the mission.Dear Valued Customer,We hope this message finds you well. It is with a heavy heart that we reach out to share an important update regarding the future of AEE Solar. After careful consideration, we've made the difficult decision to wind down AEE’s operations over the next 36 days, with a tentative closing date of May 3rd, 2024. Please be aware that this date may be subject to change, and we will keep you informed of any updates.As a result, we are offering attractive clearance pricing on the majority of our inventory over the next month, which we encourage you to take advantage of.We understand that this news might come as a surprise. Our Customer Support Team and Territory Sales Managers are available to address any questions or concerns you may have during this time. We are committed to transparency and will keep you informed throughout the process, including confirmation of the final closing date, well in advance.If you purchase SnapNrack products from AEE, please reach out to your Territory Sales Manager to explore opportunities to purchase directly from SnapNrack going forward.We want to express our sincere gratitude for your ongoing support. It has been a privilege serving you, and we wish you continued success. We look forward to serving you during this wind-down period.Sincerely,The AEE Solar TeamJeremy Coxon NABCEP Certified MWBESent from my iPhone___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Minimum bus size, new requirements

[Lloyd Hoffstatter via RE-wrenches]

William,

Here is the CA Energy Code with the upsized busbar requirements under solar / 
ess readiness:

https://title24energyreports.com/articles/basic-facts-changes-2022-energy-code.php

Best regard
Title 24: 2022 Energy Code - Basic Facts | 
CompuCalc
Summary of changes and updates in the 2022 California Energy Code
title24energyreports.com



Lloyd Hoffstatter, M.S. Applied Solar Energy

Inaugural NABCEP Cetrified PV Installer Emeritus

Director, Sunstruck Consulting

ll...@sunstruckconsulting.com

845-657-8132 (office)

914-844-3404 (cell)




From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of 
William Miller via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2024 1:00 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: William Miller 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Minimum bus size, new requirements


Friends:



A local building official recently wrote this:



This is to comply with the new codes (California Energy Code and the Nation 
Electric Code) that require this minimum buss rating regardless of the service 
size or main size.



The new code allegedly requires a minimum bus rating of 225A in all new 
services of 200A rating or less.



Do any of you know what new code this might be?



Thanks in advance for your time.



William



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985




___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Minimum bus size, new requirements

[Lloyd Hoffstatter via RE-wrenches]

Hi William,

200 Amp service per CA Energy Code -

https://www.energy.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2022-08/2022_Residential_Mandatory_Measures_Summary_ADA.pdf

It may have been modified since.

Best regards,
Lloyd


Lloyd Hoffstatter, M.S. Applied Solar Energy

Inaugural NABCEP Cetrified PV Installer Emeritus

Director, Sunstruck Consulting

ll...@sunstruckconsulting.com

845-657-8132 (office)

914-844-3404 (cell)




From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of 
William Miller via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2024 1:00 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: William Miller 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Minimum bus size, new requirements


Friends:



A local building official recently wrote this:



This is to comply with the new codes (California Energy Code and the Nation 
Electric Code) that require this minimum buss rating regardless of the service 
size or main size.



The new code allegedly requires a minimum bus rating of 225A in all new 
services of 200A rating or less.



Do any of you know what new code this might be?



Thanks in advance for your time.



William



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985




___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] Minimum bus size, new requirements

[William Miller via RE-wrenches]

Friends:



A local building official recently wrote this:



This is to comply with the new codes (California Energy Code and the Nation
Electric Code) that require this minimum buss rating regardless of the
service size or main size.



The new code allegedly requires a minimum bus rating of 225A in all new
services of 200A rating or less.



Do any of you know what new code this might be?



Thanks in advance for your time.



William



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Good tech support

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

As to the envy not being good for LA batteries. Yes rhe 60v max is just too low. Does it have 3 stage charging?I’m curious to see what the new midnite solar inverter has to offer. It shows up to 64v battery. JayOn Mar 28, 2024, at 6:44 AM, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches  wrote:Howie,    I might be interested in taking the Envy off your hands.  I haven't made the move from Outback equipment but have joined the LFP world. I also like to testnew products on my own off grid system and have 3 e-Flex batteries.  Contact me off list if interested.John Blittersdorfjohn.blittersd...@gmail.co On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 12:30 AM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches  wrote:William, I am sure that I am not the only one on the list that appreciates your willingness to share your experience, well thought out analysis, and solutions.  As always, thank you for your insights and ideas. And thanks for taking the time to highlight your positive interactions with Fortress. I too have had generally good experience with Fortress's support, which is no small part of why I've chosen to install many eVault Max cabinets, particularly for off grid systems. This is also,  in part, why I chose to try their Envy inverter in my off-grid house that currently has an older 1300 ah lead acid battery bank (whenever I have the opportunity to try new to me equipment in my own place, I do so). I have used Sol-Ark in many installs, and have been generally pleased with them, but am growing weary of firmware updates that cause problems and errors between disparate brands. This issue has only grown more critical and troublesome with the advent of closed loop communications between hybrid inverters and Lithium BMSs. So I was anxious to try the Envy,  which is promoted as working with many Lithium batteries in closed loop, as well as Lead acid, both on and off grid. I should have done more research before buying it for use in this setting. In short,  in my opinion, the Envy is woefully inadequate for use with lead acid batteries. The programming and capabilities for use with a Lead Acid battery bank are on the verge of useless. And regrettably, in trying to understand how to set it up and dealing with what turned out to be serious shortcomings, talking with their support for many hours over several calls about this, was even more abysmal.  I was basically  told that I should not use the Envy with L-A  batteries, it wasn't  designed for such use, and if i did so, that was at my own peril (not their exact words). This inspite of their sales team and advertising saying otherwise. It was one of the worst support  interactions I've  had since talking with Xantrex (about issues with their TM500 meter interfering with the C40's functionality) 20 years ago. This was not the experience I was hoping for. I don't typically bad mouth a company here, especially one that I've enjoyed good results with. My preference is to highlight companies/equipment that have worked well for me. However, I have made multiple attempts to email their support team, their sales team and their higher level tech,  with absolutely no response.  Crickets. Now I am frustrated, hence this missive.I will be replacing the Envy with another more appropriately designed inverter. Hopefully, I will be able to do something useful with it. Howie MichaelsonOn Wed, Mar 27, 2024, 10:14 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends: Some of you may remember the problems I am having integrating a set of Fortress batteries with an off-grid Sunny Island/Sunny Boy ac-coupled system.  If not, here is the case study. The problem has been in abeyance for the last few months because due to short days and cloudy weather.  There has not been enough sunshine to cause a recurrence.  Now that spring has sprung the problem is back. I did come up with a work-around:  I installed a contactor to disconnect the Sunny Boys whenever the SOC gets to 90%.  This works but it does waste some solar capability. I have been working with Fortress on the issue.  They have been in touch and have been very generous in offering support and spending time trying to find a solution.  Most important they have admitted the problem exists. To me this is very refreshing.  This makes me want to use more Fortress products and sing their praises.  I think my fellow wrenches would want to know about this great support when contemplating which battery products to use, which is the reason for this post. Below is an excerpt from an email received today from Fortress. Hi William, Apologies for the lapse in communication on this subject, we are still actively working on this case to provide you with a solution. We have confirmed here in our Lab that the older firmware does not resolve the issue as you have stated and the engineering and product teams are in discussions to provide a solution to this battery/inverter compatibility issue. We will provide updates on a solution as we 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Good tech support

[John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches]

Howie,
I might be interested in taking the Envy off your hands.  I haven't
made the move from Outback equipment but have joined the LFP world. I also
like to test
new products on my own off grid system and have 3 e-Flex batteries.
Contact me off list if interested.

John Blittersdorf
john.blittersd...@gmail.co



On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 12:30 AM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> William,
>
> I am sure that I am not the only one on the list that appreciates your
> willingness to share your experience, well thought out analysis, and
> solutions.  As always, thank you for your insights and ideas. And thanks
> for taking the time to highlight your positive interactions with Fortress.
>
> I too have had generally good experience with Fortress's support, which is
> no small part of why I've chosen to install many eVault Max cabinets,
> particularly for off grid systems. This is also,  in part, why I chose to
> try their Envy inverter in my off-grid house that currently has an older
> 1300 ah lead acid battery bank (whenever I have the opportunity to try new
> to me equipment in my own place, I do so).
>
> I have used Sol-Ark in many installs, and have been generally pleased with
> them, but am growing weary of firmware updates that cause problems and
> errors between disparate brands. This issue has only grown more critical
> and troublesome with the advent of closed loop communications between
> hybrid inverters and Lithium BMSs.
>
> So I was anxious to try the Envy,  which is promoted as working with many
> Lithium batteries in closed loop, as well as Lead acid, both on and off
> grid. I should have done more research before buying it for use in this
> setting.
>
> In short,  in my opinion, the Envy is woefully inadequate for use with
> lead acid batteries. The programming and capabilities for use with a Lead
> Acid battery bank are on the verge of useless. And regrettably, in trying
> to understand how to set it up and dealing with what turned out to be
> serious shortcomings, talking with their support for many hours over
> several calls about this, was even more abysmal.  I was basically  told
> that I should not use the Envy with L-A  batteries, it wasn't  designed for
> such use, and if i did so, that was at my own peril (not their exact
> words). This inspite of their sales team and advertising saying otherwise.
> It was one of the worst support  interactions I've  had since talking with
> Xantrex (about issues with their TM500 meter interfering with the C40's
> functionality) 20 years ago. This was not the experience I was hoping for.
>
> I don't typically bad mouth a company here, especially one that I've
> enjoyed good results with. My preference is to highlight
> companies/equipment that have worked well for me. However, I have made
> multiple attempts to email their support team, their sales team and their
> higher level tech,  with absolutely no response.  Crickets. Now I am
> frustrated, hence this missive.
>
> I will be replacing the Envy with another more appropriately designed
> inverter. Hopefully, I will be able to do something useful with it.
>
> Howie Michaelson
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2024, 10:14 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Friends:
>>
>>
>>
>> Some of you may remember the problems I am having integrating a set of
>> Fortress batteries with an off-grid Sunny Island/Sunny Boy ac-coupled
>> system.  If not, here
>> 
>> is the case study.
>>
>>
>>
>> The problem has been in abeyance for the last few months because due to
>> short days and cloudy weather.  There has not been enough sunshine to cause
>> a recurrence.  Now that spring has sprung the problem is back.
>>
>>
>>
>> I did come up with a work-around:  I installed a contactor to disconnect
>> the Sunny Boys whenever the SOC gets to 90%.  This works but it does waste
>> some solar capability.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been working with Fortress on the issue.  They have been in touch
>> and have been very generous in offering support and spending time trying to
>> find a solution.  Most important they have admitted the problem exists.
>>
>>
>>
>> To me this is very refreshing.  This makes me want to use more Fortress
>> products and sing their praises.  I think my fellow wrenches would want to
>> know about this great support when contemplating which battery products to
>> use, which is the reason for this post.
>>
>>
>>
>> Below is an excerpt from an email received today from Fortress.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi William,
>>
>>
>>
>> Apologies for the lapse in communication on this subject, we are still
>> actively working on this case to provide you with a solution.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have confirmed here in our Lab that the older firmware does not
>> resolve the issue as you have stated and the engineering and product teams
>> are in discussions to