RE: [Repeater-Builder] Z-Matcher adjustment
Because the meter and its cable's electrical length will change the tuning. You can read it at the antenna port of the duplexer if youre using one. This has already been covered in previous posts. 73,Lee I must be dense . From what I understand you have the transmitter (no tuning in the amplifier stages) , then the swr meter ,the Z-matcher , and then the duplexer. It will not change the tuning of anything if you tune fhr z-matcher for minimum reflected power and then remove the swr meter. It will only change what the transmitter sees and it is not tunable anyway. That is all that the matching section does in the duplex transmitter. It does not tune for maximum efficiency if you follow the GE tuning instructions. This discussion has gone full-circle and is now to the point of confusion. The original premise was that a Z-matcher was needed on the output of some PA's because the PA itself was *not* properly matched when terminated in a 50 ohm load. Wasn't that the original discussion? The goal wasn't to minimize VSWR looking into the cavities. With that in mind, the best match isn't necessarily that which produces the least reflected power. The best match is the load Z that the amplifier is most happy transferring power to, and the only way to know that is by looking at PA efficiency. GE's procedure which is based on the least-reflected-power method is only correct IF we assume that the output stage of the Mastr II PA is best matched when looking into a perfect 50+j0 load. But that's not what we're trying to accomplish here. The original premise was that many PA's, especially when operated outside their design range or at reduced power, were NOT best-matched when terminated in a purely-resistive 50 ohm load. So, if you tune your GE Mastr II matching network for least reflected power as indicated by the test pin on the onboard directional coupler, you're not accomplishing what you set out to do. Contrary to popular belief, and over-simplification by manufacturers, least insertion loss and maximum power output aren't always the right answers when tuning amplifiers, filter cavities, and other devices in the transmission system. Maximum return loss in filter cavities and antenna systems, and maximum efficiency in PA tuning, are steps in the right direction if the goal is to have a transmission system that is stable and the least immune to external influences including temperature. Now, if you have a PA that runs away when presented with a known-good load, then you've got a problem that needs to be fixed IN THE PA. Using a Z-matcher, or the crude equivalent of feedline pruning, to help tame an unstable PA isn't a fix, it's a band-aid that will eventually come off... --- Jeff Jeff DePolo WN3A - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Broadcast and Communications Consultant Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron Meters
At 01:01 PM 1/27/2004, Dave / NØATH wrote: I would certainly be interested to know where you obtained the digital meters - that looks really nice. I wonder if they are illuminated? The meters came from Marlin P Jones, http://www.mpja.com/, and the part number is 12306 ME. Although their web page says they can not monitor their own supply, the ones I received do have a common ground with the input and can so that's what I did for the volt meter. The ammeter had to have an isolated supply. They are not illuminated. They also have internal input selection for 200 mv, 20 v, 200 v and 500 v. The existing hole is just a hair large vertically and about 7/32 shy left and right for a horizontal fit. Quite a nice meter for under ten bucks! Total project cost under $30! 73, Tony W4ZT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron Meters
You might be able to illuminate the meters using a few LED's. Neil - WA6KLA Tony King - W4ZT wrote: At 01:01 PM 1/27/2004, Dave / NØATH wrote: I would certainly be interested to know where you obtained the digital meters - that looks really nice. I wonder if they are illuminated? The meters came from Marlin P Jones, http://www.mpja.com/, and the part number is 12306 ME. Although their web page says they can not monitor their own supply, the ones I received do have a common ground with the input and can so that's what I did for the volt meter. The ammeter had to have an isolated supply. They are not illuminated. They also have internal input selection for 200 mv, 20 v, 200 v and 500 v. The existing hole is just a hair large vertically and about 7/32 shy left and right for a horizontal fit. Quite a nice meter for under ten bucks! Total project cost under $30! 73, Tony W4ZT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Phasing harness
Hi Randy, If the folded dipole elements are similar to those of a Decibel DB- 420 or similar model, they are 100 ohms and can be matched with a combination of 75 ohm, and 35 ohm coax. You may also wish to use a different method of coupling both elements together with 50 ohm cable. There are different ways to do this. I have written up a short description of phasing lines and posted them at this web site. http://www.w4dex.com/ant.htm Hope this helps! Let me know if you need specific measurements. 73, Derek KC4FWC --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Randy Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings to the group Just wondering if anyone can steer me to a web page for building phasing harnesses for uhf folded dipole arrays. I'm looking at building a 2 bay and possibly a 4 bay, and I will need a phasing harness for them. Thanks in Advance Randy Elliott VE3JPU Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
SV: [Repeater-Builder] crossband
Hi, whoever you are, anonymous! The crossband repeater recieves on 400Mc and send on 145Mc or any other great jump in frequency. No external separation filters etc. needed. Great if you have the crossband up on a mountain and radios on the oposit sides of the mountain, just put it in crossband and use 400Mc on one side of the mountain and 145Mc on the other side. Poor mans repeater ugly said 73 Per -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: sal90212 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Skickat: den 27 januari 2004 06:58 Till: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Ämne: [Repeater-Builder] crossband hi all i have q what dose crossband Repeater do ? Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Dual Band Antenna's?
We have tried stuffing a Diamond X-500 inside a Stationmaster radome but didn't have much luck. Never could get a good match no matter how we tried to decouple the feedline. The reason commercial manufactures don't make dual banders is because they don't always work well electrically. Dual banders use small disc capacitors in series with the feed, sometimes series and shunt, which can produce intermod due to capacitors breaking down under high power conditions. Even if you did get an X-500 or other Comet/Diamond crap into a big radome, the power ratings are 200 watts PEP if you read the fine print.. which means about 75 watts combined on FM.. they work fine for the casual ham who wants a nice yuppie antenna in the back yard. Some people have excellent success with them.. some dont. I am running an X-500HNA at 160 feet for a low powered UHF repeater, and a packet station on VHF. When the ice came through NC the past few days, the thing wouldn't have lasted over 20 MPH if the wind blew. Additional commentary at: http://www.w4dex.com/kc4fwc/sixtytwo.htm In conclusion, you probably won't find a dual band antenna that will meet your needs if you're running something in a remote area. Another problem is, even if you support the antennas when side mounting them 2 and 3 times, the ground radials will break off from birds or ice falling from up the tower (if you live in such an area) 73, KC4FWC --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Daron J. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone tried stuffing one of the ham dual banders inside a good radome like an old Sinclair or DB products antenna that was bad? I was thinking of gutting one of the old bad ones I have, cutting Styrofoam or something to keep the antenna in the middle of the radome and stuffing it back inside there for protection. I'm assuming that the failures with the comet/diamond type are physical in nature. Daron N7HQR Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] wilson repeater
have a wilson WU451 repeater can someone tell me the exciter output or possible have a manual?recieve is good cant get much out of the exciter Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] wilson repeater
At 03:17 AM 1/28/2004 -, you wrote: have a wilson WU451 repeater can someone tell me the exciter output or possible have a manual?recieve is good cant get much out of the exciter ---I don't have the manuals anymore but the exciter makes around 2 watts. There was a matching amp that would up that to 40... Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Our new Repeater Audio Delay (RAD) board is now shipping! Compatible with many controllers! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Dual Band Antenna's?
At 12:23 AM 1/28/2004 -, you wrote: them.. some dont. I am running an X-500HNA at 160 feet for a low powered UHF repeater, and a packet station on VHF. When the ice came through NC the past few days, the thing wouldn't have lasted over 20 MPH if the wind blew. ---FWIW, I ran an X-500 at the 10,023 foot level, on Mt. Haleakala on the island of Maui for many years (it was for a digipeater) and it survived not only 80+ MPH winds, it survived them with over an inch of ice on it. Yea I know.. Hawaii never gets snow or ice :-) Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Our new Repeater Audio Delay (RAD) board is now shipping! Compatible with many controllers! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] TE Systems Amplifier
Sounds like an exciter problem or duplexer/cavity filter tuning drift problem, not an amplifier problem. (Assuming you are using a duplexer in the repeater) Using DB-4062 WBC--- 6 can BP/BR. Tuned per specs on 01-26-04 Duplexers actually measured at 1.8 db loss after tuning. The exciter power is correct for that particular system. The TE amplifier is a 1452 -- unit is in a non controlled temperature location. Have you checked the input power to the amp from the exciter device ?? How are you measuring the output power in relation to the antenna ??? Before the duplexer or on the output of the duplexer. Cable length, or any other changes did not affect the readings. Power was same going direct to antenna or thru the cans. Maybe we can get some warmer days and see what the output power change really is since the duplexers have been retuned. Thanks for the info. Jimmy NQ4U Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Dual Band Antenna's?
I use a Diamond F23A single bander on 2 meters which has 3/4 ice on it right now and survived gusts to 40 mph. The SWR stayed pretty low as well. My HF vertical snapped off in 3 places and my 6 meter beam is toast. 73,Lee,N3APP in icy Erie,Pa... - Original Message - From: Ken Arck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Dual Band Antenna's? At 12:23 AM 1/28/2004 -, you wrote: them.. some dont. I am running an X-500HNA at 160 feet for a low powered UHF repeater, and a packet station on VHF. When the ice came through NC the past few days, the thing wouldn't have lasted over 20 MPH if the wind blew. ---FWIW, I ran an X-500 at the 10,023 foot level, on Mt. Haleakala on the island of Maui for many years (it was for a digipeater) and it survived not only 80+ MPH winds, it survived them with over an inch of ice on it. Yea I know.. Hawaii never gets snow or ice :-) Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Our new Repeater Audio Delay (RAD) board is now shipping! Compatible with many controllers! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dual Band Antenna's?
You could try this antenna. http://www.decibelproducts.com/productnotebookantenna2.asp?Param=ModelNumberModel=DB314-Afreq=on We used this antenna at my work for our interoperability initiative. You won't like the price though as it was over $1000. 73 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sure this has been discussed before but what are your thoughts about a good quality base station dual band (2/440) antenna's? I know I can get the Diamond / Comet but was woundering if there's anything out there in the commercial world.Thanks..Yahoo! Groups LinksTo visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Dual Band Antenna's?
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sure this has been discussed before but what are your thoughts about a good quality base station dual band (2/440) antenna's? I know I can get the Diamond / Comet but was woundering if there's anything out there in the commercial world. Thanks.. Hello there. If you are looking for a decent dual band base/repeater antenna that can handle modest power, and presents a low wind/ice load, it is hard to beat the Diamond X-50. Modest gain (to avoid heating up the horizon or sky), it is inexpensive, and un-obtrusive. I have used these for repeaters and remote bases on modest mountain tops here in Ca. with good results. As a matter of fact, I have a Diamond tri-band antenna for a remote base at 3100 feet that has been up for 8 Gold Country winters now and it is still in one piece with low VSWR. FWIW. Johnab6li Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] VOCOM (or VO-COM?) Power Amplifier Retuning
Whatever you do, be sure to look at the output with a spectrum analyzer. I once had to deal with a paging company over a spurious transmitter that was keying up two-meter repeaters all over the South, and I believe, as I recall, they were using a Vocom amp. Steve, AA5SG - Original Message - From: wb6gha [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 7:45 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VOCOM (or VO-COM?) Power Amplifier Retuning I would like to correspond with anybody who has retuned a Vocom PA (quarter watt in - 100 watt out) from the commercial band down to the 146 MHz range. Thanks de John .. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Phasing harness
Thanks Derek for the info Randy From: Derek B. McIntyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 00:09:02 - To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Phasing harness Hi Randy, If the folded dipole elements are similar to those of a Decibel DB- 420 or similar model, they are 100 ohms and can be matched with a combination of 75 ohm, and 35 ohm coax. You may also wish to use a different method of coupling both elements together with 50 ohm cable. There are different ways to do this. I have written up a short description of phasing lines and posted them at this web site. http://www.w4dex.com/ant.htm Hope this helps! Let me know if you need specific measurements. 73, Derek KC4FWC --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Randy Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings to the group Just wondering if anyone can steer me to a web page for building phasing harnesses for uhf folded dipole arrays. I'm looking at building a 2 bay and possibly a 4 bay, and I will need a phasing harness for them. Thanks in Advance Randy Elliott VE3JPU Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Dual Band Antenna's?
I wonder if you could combine a 408 what ever # the vhf one ison your own??? Robert snip Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 19:26:03 -0800 (PST) From: T.J. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Dual Band Antenna's? You could try this antenna. http://www.decibelproducts.com/productnotebookantenna2.asp?Param=ModelNumberModel=DB314-Afreq=on We used this antenna at my work for our interoperability initiative. You won't like the price though as it was over $1000. 73 The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
