Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
On Sep 2, 2009, at 10:37 PM, tahrens301 wrote: Nate - I only tried the 'ham quality' antenna because I knew it would be a better match than the DB224. It was easy to change, standing on a 6' ladder! Just wanted to see if a poor swr would induce the desense. There are no other communications systems within miles of my location, so who knows. Perhaps the metal building is the problem. Got it now. I was somehow under the impression you were at a busy commercial site with other transmitters and things. Honestly it probably rules out some stuff if you're not. You didn't mention your frequencies. Another minor gotcha is always if you pick a frequency pair that just happens to have bad mathematical frequency relationships to your IF frequency, etc. Kevin has some interesting stories about the MASTR II and things he's found out about UHF ones over the years, regarding this... and there's been discussions in the past about high and low-side injection crystal frequencies when we move these ex-commercial repeaters designed for use higher or lower in the bands into the far reaches of the Amateur bands A side question, dealing with separation. Obviously, when you are using a split site, vertical separation makes you a lot more $ than horizontal does. But, in this type of situation, where you are a single antenna with a duplexer, what real difference does vertical or horizontal separation from the station make? If I'm horizontal, could turn the whole system on it's side (including the antenna system), then it would be vertical. Ahhh, you're missing what they're talking about. Vertical antennas push a majority of the signal toward the horizon, usually in a donut shaped pattern. When you're directly under or over a vertical antenna, the amount of signal you'll be illuminated with from that transmitter/antenna combo is much lower than when you're off to one side of it. In your case, what they're concerned about is shielding... if your receiver isn't shielded well, and your feedline isn't top-notch, since your repeater is 100' horizontally from your antenna, you're in your own transmitter's illumination pattern, and signals are stronger that you're trying to keep OUT of your receiver, than say if you were directly under your antenna in a box at the bottom of the tower. Anything leaks RF into your receiver... there's going to be more RF out to the sides of your antenna than there is to contend with directly underneath it. The straws that I'm grasping are getting smaller!! Here's a relatively simple test, and also not super expensive if you don't already have the gear... can you put a good quality 50-ohm dummy load up at the end of your feed line where the antenna is at, instead of the antenna temporarily. If you transmit into THAT and you have desense, something is leaking your TX BADLY back into your RX, and odds are it's in the building... not out on the tower. With only a dummy load out there to radiate, you'd eliminate RF getting back into your shack, just like a non-duplexed station might suffer from things being RF hot if you had a KW amplifier on HF and your antenna was only a few feet away (bad idea for RF exposure but just using it as an example) and without proper grounding, things like a CW key or an old Astatic microphone might bite you when TXing. If the desense goes away -- suspect the antenna or the feedline anywhere along the path. It would show that the RF from the antenna is getting Into something. If you're feeling overwhelmed, stop, take a break... new ideas come often when you're not actively thinking about the problem. Another good habit to get into is to write every test scenario down... if nothing else, you can hunt down other local repeater people, especially those with lots of experience like the commercial 2-way folks who are often also hams, and for a beverage and maybe the cost of lunch, they can look over what you've tried and offer suggestions... heck, maybe if you're lucky they can show up with fancy test gear you could NEVER get your hands on at a reasonable price in a million years. And of course, if you can get their EYEBALLS on it, the problem might become obvious. Example... a new repeater operator in this area is using some hardline that looks like it was whacked every 3 feet with a ball-peen hammer. His repeater works reasonably well, and I'm just bloody amazed it works AT ALL after seeing this junk hardline someone gave him that he knew in THEORY should be better than LMR 400 or the like... but in PRACTICE he didn't know what giant dents in hardline do to the stuff. That hardline is probably EATING all of his power before it ever reaches the radiator/antenna, and it probably looks like a WONDERFUL 1:1 match on a wattmeter. But return loss INCLUDES feedline losses, by definition... and it's a two-way thing if you're
[Repeater-Builder] Use of GM300 for Telementry at Repeater
Hi Guys, I am in the process of building a telementry logger for our repeater, using a POCSAG encoder into a GM300. I have gotten the connections coming in from the rear 16 pin socket. Radio is a 8 Ch, but will most likely only be programmed with 1 Ch. Still got to program the Telementry freq into the radio. I do not have a scope or analiser to check the audio out, and going to roughly set it up by ear. So far the audio sounds hot, too high. I do not have a service manual so ask where do I look for the adjustments? Better mention that the pins I am using are 3 - PTT, 5-POCSAG input, 7-Ground, and 10-12volts. These are the 4 connections the POCSAG encoder instructions said to hook up. Pins 15 and 16 are tied together for the speaker, not that it is going to be used. Also on the standard connector that came with the GM300 pins 7 and 9 were jumpered together, however I had to pull pin 7 so I could use the ground encoder. Any help would be grateful. Kevin.
[Repeater-Builder] Icom RP-1520 TX PL re-enable
Hi, I added an external controller to our club's repeater. I used the instructions found on the RB website to disable the internal controller. What that paper does not cover is how to re activate the TX PL tone. Does anyone happen to know how to get that working again ? TIA Andrew KC2EUS / GM1YMI
Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR board for simple repeater??
Hi Azman well i have checked the web site, it is written in a language that i dont understand,, i only see pictogramm ,,,it must be the letters. but thanks anyway it was appreciated gervais ve2ckn From: Azman Ismail Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:46 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR board for simple repeater?? Hi Gervais' You can check with this site www.hs9dmc.com. Regards 9w6man --- Pada Khm, 20/8/09, Rick Szajkowski va3r...@gmail.com menulis: Daripada: Rick Szajkowski va3r...@gmail.com Subjek: Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR board for simple repeater?? Kepada: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Tarikh: Khamis, 20 Ogos, 2009, 6:27 AM hi Gervais I have such a item .. its an alinco controller it was ment to have 2 HTs on it .. or even one and then act as a 'parrot' repeater if you would like more info email me off list On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 5:19 PM, gervaisve2...@hotmail. com wrote: Hi all i am looking a COR board that i could use between 2 walkie-talkie that would be used here as a replacement for my regular repeater in case of accident. i have seen this many years ago,an amateur built his own repeater with 2 talkie's,simple and efficient. So maybe someone know where i could find such a board,,,controler what ever you call it,no need for queue,,,just a simple repeater. thanks Gervais ve2ckn Get your new Email address! Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR board for simple repeater??
Azman may have been referring to this link for HT to HT: http://www.hs9dmc.com/repeater/vox/handy-to-handy_kitchen-house.htm The schematic and pictures transcend the language barrier. The second grouping from the bottom seems to be the collection of repeating interfaces. Hovering the mouse over the links will show the link name in the status bar. From that, you can determine the content of the other links in the group. 73 de Daniel KB3MUN gervais wrote: Hi Azman well i have checked the web site, it is written in a language that i dont understand,, i only see pictogramm ,,,it must be the letters. but thanks anyway it was appreciated gervais ve2ckn *From:* Azman Ismail mailto:azman4...@yahoo.com.my *Sent:* Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:46 PM *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR board for simple repeater?? Hi Gervais' You can check with this site www.hs9dmc.com http://www.hs9dmc.com. Regards 9w6man --- Pada *Khm, 20/8/09, Rick Szajkowski /va3r...@gmail.com mailto:va3r...@gmail.com/* menulis: Daripada: Rick Szajkowski va3r...@gmail.com mailto:va3r...@gmail.com Subjek: Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR board for simple repeater?? Kepada: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Tarikh: Khamis, 20 Ogos, 2009, 6:27 AM hi Gervais I have such a item .. its an alinco controller it was ment to have 2 HTs on it .. or even one and then act as a 'parrot' repeater if you would like more info email me off list On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 5:19 PM, gervaisve2...@hotmail. com http://my.mc760.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ve2ckn%40hotmail.com wrote: Hi all i am looking a COR board that i could use between 2 walkie-talkie that would be used here as a replacement for my regular repeater in case of accident. i have seen this many years ago,an amateur built his own repeater with 2 talkie's,simple and efficient. So maybe someone know where i could find such a board,,,controler what ever you call it,no need for queue,,,just a simple repeater. thanks Gervais ve2ckn
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
-snip- A side question, dealing with separation. Obviously, when you are using a split site, vertical separation makes you a lot more $ than horizontal does. But, in this type of situation, where you are a single antenna with a duplexer, what real difference does vertical or horizontal separation from the station make? If I'm horizontal, could turn the whole system on it's side (including the antenna system), then it would be vertical. Basically, if your receiver and your antenna are in line with each other, the antenna is shooting rf right at the receiver. If it was up above the receiver, the receiver would be under an umbrella safer from the rf being shot out at the horizon. Vertical antennas of course. I believe you've tried a dummy load at the antenna end of the feedline yes? Chris Kb0wlf The straws that I'm grasping are getting smaller!! Thanks to all! Tim W5FN
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Use of GM300 for Telementry at Repeater
Hello Kevin, The aux. input to the GM300, pin 5, I believe is for mike input. POCSAG usually is FSK and not AFSK. Did you modify the radio for FSK or 9600 baud use? What POCSAG encoder are you using? Joe Gmail - Kevin, Natalia, Stacey Rochelle wrote: Hi Guys, I am in the process of building a telementry logger for our repeater, using a POCSAG encoder into a GM300. I have gotten the connections coming in from the rear 16 pin socket. Radio is a 8 Ch, but will most likely only be programmed with 1 Ch. Still got to program the Telementry freq into the radio. I do not have a scope or analiser to check the audio out, and going to roughly set it up by ear. So far the audio sounds hot, too high. I do not have a service manual so ask where do I look for the adjustments? Better mention that the pins I am using are 3 - PTT, 5-POCSAG input, 7-Ground, and 10-12volts. These are the 4 connections the POCSAG encoder instructions said to hook up. Pins 15 and 16 are tied together for the speaker, not that it is going to be used. Also on the standard connector that came with the GM300 pins 7 and 9 were jumpered together, however I had to pull pin 7 so I could use the ground encoder. Any help would be grateful. Kevin. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Icom RP-1520 TX PL re-enable
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kc2eus kc2...@... wrote: Hi, I added an external controller to our club's repeater. I used the instructions found on the RB website to disable the internal controller. What that paper does not cover is how to re activate the TX PL tone. Does anyone happen to know how to get that working again ? TIA Andrew KC2EUS / GM1YMI It's been a few years since I played with the 1520/4020 units, but if memory serves me correctly, you'll need to enter in the DTMF command to tell the internal controller to enable the pl encoder. The internal factory controller also controls the state of the tx's pl encoder. Each time the power is reset to the RP1520, you'll have to go through the procedure of entering the command. The other option is to study the schematic and permanently set the logic state between the CPU and encoder chip. Hopefully you only disconnected the TX side of the internal controller (ie: tx ptt and tx audio), and left the factory controller still attached, so as to decode incoming dtmf tones. Eric KE2D
[Repeater-Builder] GE MASTR II 900 MHz 10 Channel Repeater System
I have Inherited a 10 Channel GE MASTR II repeater system, and I am looking for some info or maybe even some interest. The COMB # is S4VTRY0756 There are 5 cabinets each w/ 2 repeaters. (1) of the cabinets also has a Master Oscillator. There also appears to be a separate controller on each repeater with a part # of 19D90186803 Each cabinet has a large top mounted fan and each repeater has its own power supply. I have never been a GE person, so I have no knowledge as to exacly what I have here. Odds are that I would prefer to sell it off as I really don't need it. If anyone can help identify this system and if there is any interest in it I will accept offers. I would prefer to sell it as one complete package, but if there is not any interest, I will entertain selling it in pieces. I thank you in advance for info you can provide. If anyone needs further info or has specific questions, feel free to drop me a line and I'll look at the system and to provide whatever data you need. Feel free to email me offline at bbf...@yahoo.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE MASTR II 900 MHz 10 Channel Repeater System
There is information available to move them to 902-927 if they are 900 Mastr II GeNet900 stations.. It requires assembling a pll loader pcb to load the pll code to make it work on 902/927 instead of commercial. There is little use commercially for it but some limited amateur interest... the problem is one Master Osc.. feeds 10 stations :-) A 10 channel trunk on 902/927 would be amusing but largely not practical :-) I have limited interest as I do have the code written to move to amateur... but shipping would exceed practical $$ for them... While that system probably cost $20.00 new.. it is maybe worth one percent of that today unless you can find a commercial interested party. Doug KD8B At 12:40 PM 9/3/2009, you wrote: I have Inherited a 10 Channel GE MASTR II repeater system, and I am looking for some info or maybe even some interest. The COMB # is S4VTRY0756 There are 5 cabinets each w/ 2 repeaters. (1) of the cabinets also has a Master Oscillator. There also appears to be a separate controller on each repeater with a part # of 19D90186803 Each cabinet has a large top mounted fan and each repeater has its own power supply. I have never been a GE person, so I have no knowledge as to exacly what I have here. Odds are that I would prefer to sell it off as I really don't need it. If anyone can help identify this system and if there is any interest in it I will accept offers. I would prefer to sell it as one complete package, but if there is not any interest, I will entertain selling it in pieces. I thank you in advance for info you can provide. If anyone needs further info or has specific questions, feel free to drop me a line and I'll look at the system and to provide whatever data you need. Feel free to email me offline at mailto:bbfmrf%40yahoo.combbf...@yahoo.com
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Icom RP-1520 TX PL re-enable
Ahh and the light bulb comes on ! I'll try that when i get home. Thanks Andrew KC2EUS / GM1YMI --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kk2ed kk...@... wrote: --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kc2eus kc2eus@ wrote: Hi, I added an external controller to our club's repeater. I used the instructions found on the RB website to disable the internal controller. What that paper does not cover is how to re activate the TX PL tone. Does anyone happen to know how to get that working again ? TIA Andrew KC2EUS / GM1YMI It's been a few years since I played with the 1520/4020 units, but if memory serves me correctly, you'll need to enter in the DTMF command to tell the internal controller to enable the pl encoder. The internal factory controller also controls the state of the tx's pl encoder. Each time the power is reset to the RP1520, you'll have to go through the procedure of entering the command. The other option is to study the schematic and permanently set the logic state between the CPU and encoder chip. Hopefully you only disconnected the TX side of the internal controller (ie: tx ptt and tx audio), and left the factory controller still attached, so as to decode incoming dtmf tones. Eric KE2D
Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR board for simple repeater??
Well Daniel it helped me a lot i can see the little interface between the 2 portable radios it is what i need,but he is not using the 2 connectors on the radio, the mic and speaker thanks gervais ve2ckn -- From: D. Daniel McGlothin, KB3MUN kb3...@mcglothin.us Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 7:19 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR board for simple repeater?? Azman may have been referring to this link for HT to HT: http://www.hs9dmc.com/repeater/vox/handy-to-handy_kitchen-house.htm The schematic and pictures transcend the language barrier. The second grouping from the bottom seems to be the collection of repeating interfaces. Hovering the mouse over the links will show the link name in the status bar. From that, you can determine the content of the other links in the group. 73 de Daniel KB3MUN gervais wrote: Hi Azman well i have checked the web site, it is written in a language that i dont understand,, i only see pictogramm ,,,it must be the letters. but thanks anyway it was appreciated gervais ve2ckn *From:* Azman Ismail mailto:azman4...@yahoo.com.my *Sent:* Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:46 PM *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR board for simple repeater?? Hi Gervais' You can check with this site www.hs9dmc.com http://www.hs9dmc.com. Regards 9w6man --- Pada *Khm, 20/8/09, Rick Szajkowski /va3r...@gmail.com mailto:va3r...@gmail.com/* menulis: Daripada: Rick Szajkowski va3r...@gmail.com mailto:va3r...@gmail.com Subjek: Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR board for simple repeater?? Kepada: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Tarikh: Khamis, 20 Ogos, 2009, 6:27 AM hi Gervais I have such a item .. its an alinco controller it was ment to have 2 HTs on it .. or even one and then act as a 'parrot' repeater if you would like more info email me off list On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 5:19 PM, gervaisve2...@hotmail. com http://my.mc760.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ve2ckn%40hotmail.com wrote: Hi all i am looking a COR board that i could use between 2 walkie-talkie that would be used here as a replacement for my regular repeater in case of accident. i have seen this many years ago,an amateur built his own repeater with 2 talkie's,simple and efficient. So maybe someone know where i could find such a board,,,controler what ever you call it,no need for queue,,,just a simple repeater. thanks Gervais ve2ckn Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
At 9/2/2009 15:17, you wrote: The antenna is on the top of a small wooden storage building. A mast is placed up against the peak of the roof, and the 224 is on top of that. What's in the building? Any (loose, rusty) metal objects inside? Might also try a different antenna. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
Tim, A high-gain antenna that is only 100 feet away horizontally is far too close. It is bathing your repeater equipment with RF, and very few machines can tolerate being in such a high RF field. Vertical versus horizontal separation is very roughly in a 1:45 ratio, that is, the isolation of 100 feet of vertical separation is roughly equivalent to about 4,500 feet of horizontal separation. In other words, your 100 feet of horizontal separation is no better than if you put a mag-mount whip right on the top of the repeater cabinet. You would likely have less desense if you mounted your DB224 antenna on the roof of your equipment shed, directly above the repeater, so that the repeater cabinet was in the shadow beneath the antenna. You might also consider filtering the DC power leads to prevent RF ingress through that path. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tahrens301 Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:38 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense? Hi Eric, Hmmm, don't think I said above the station, but if I implied it, no, it's horizontal. I can look out the window see it! Nate - I only tried the 'ham quality' antenna because I knew it would be a better match than the DB224. It was easy to change, standing on a 6' ladder! Just wanted to see if a poor swr would induce the desense. There are no other communications systems within miles of my location, so who knows. Perhaps the metal building is the problem. A side question, dealing with separation. Obviously, when you are using a split site, vertical separation makes you a lot more $ than horizontal does. But, in this type of situation, where you are a single antenna with a duplexer, what real difference does vertical or horizontal separation from the station make? If I'm horizontal, could turn the whole system on it's side (including the antenna system), then it would be vertical. The straws that I'm grasping are getting smaller!! Thanks to all! Tim W5FN
Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR board for simple repeater??
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are looking for. The bottom two images at http://www.hs9dmc.com/repeater/vox/handy-to-handy_kitchen-house.htm seem to show the two HTs linked by the dual circuit shown on the page using the speaker and mic jacks. A different circuit shown on http://www.hs9dmc.com/repeater/repeater_handy2way.htm appears to be wired directly to the HT circuit boards. 73 de Daniel KB3MUN gervais wrote: Well Daniel it helped me a lot i can see the little interface between the 2 portable radios it is what i need,but he is not using the 2 connectors on the radio, the mic and speaker thanks gervais ve2ckn -- From: D. Daniel McGlothin, KB3MUN kb3...@mcglothin.us Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 7:19 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR board for simple repeater?? Azman may have been referring to this link for HT to HT: http://www.hs9dmc.com/repeater/vox/handy-to-handy_kitchen-house.htm The schematic and pictures transcend the language barrier. The second grouping from the bottom seems to be the collection of repeating interfaces. Hovering the mouse over the links will show the link name in the status bar. From that, you can determine the content of the other links in the group.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR board for simple repeater??
Yes Daniel i made a mistake while explaining what i want to do , my error,, i want to interconnect 2 walkie-talkie and this way built a simple repeater that could be used as an emergency equipment without all the big outfit. we would install it on an high mountain and even with low power it would better then nothing,in emergency telecom every contribution is welcome. Again thanks for your understanding Gervais ve2ckn -- From: D. Daniel McGlothin, KB3MUN kb3...@mcglothin.us Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 7:19 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR board for simple repeater?? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are looking for. The bottom two images at http://www.hs9dmc.com/repeater/vox/handy-to-handy_kitchen-house.htm seem to show the two HTs linked by the dual circuit shown on the page using the speaker and mic jacks. A different circuit shown on http://www.hs9dmc.com/repeater/repeater_handy2way.htm appears to be wired directly to the HT circuit boards. 73 de Daniel KB3MUN gervais wrote: Well Daniel it helped me a lot i can see the little interface between the 2 portable radios it is what i need,but he is not using the 2 connectors on the radio, the mic and speaker thanks gervais ve2ckn -- From: D. Daniel McGlothin, KB3MUN kb3...@mcglothin.us Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 7:19 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] COR board for simple repeater?? Azman may have been referring to this link for HT to HT: http://www.hs9dmc.com/repeater/vox/handy-to-handy_kitchen-house.htm The schematic and pictures transcend the language barrier. The second grouping from the bottom seems to be the collection of repeating interfaces. Hovering the mouse over the links will show the link name in the status bar. From that, you can determine the content of the other links in the group. Yahoo! Groups Links
