RE: Advice requested: tape system

[Larry Acosta Wong]

Call my account rep, Skip Heeman at CDW and tell him I sent you and he'll
sell you the VXA tapes for $67. Ask for CDW part# 204732.

Here's his contact info:

Skip Heeman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(877) 780-7017

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
Of Ben Liberman
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 10:17 AM
To: retro-talk
Subject: Re: Advice requested: tape system


At 10:43 -0400 9/18/00, Church Initiative WebMaster wrote:
>  > Also, in Graham's chart, the VXA V-17 media (33 gig native) is listed
>>  at $67.  Anyone know where I can find it at this price?  The best
>>  that I've found so far is ~72.50
>>
>
>http://www.egghead.com/category/inv/00074283/03276001.htm

broken link.  Can't find VXA tape anywhere on their site.
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Re: Advice requested: tape system

[Ben Liberman]

At 10:43 -0400 9/18/00, Church Initiative WebMaster wrote:
>  > Also, in Graham's chart, the VXA V-17 media (33 gig native) is listed
>>  at $67.  Anyone know where I can find it at this price?  The best
>>  that I've found so far is ~72.50
>>
>
>http://www.egghead.com/category/inv/00074283/03276001.htm

broken link.  Can't find VXA tape anywhere on their site.
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RE: Advice requested: tape system

[Larry Acosta Wong]

VXA-1 has 65% greater capacity, lower drive cost, but higher media cost.
Plus, of course there's that reliability thing. Ecrix boiled a tape,
recovered the data; froze a tape; recovered the data.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
Of Adam Cohen
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 8:32 AM
To: 'retro-talk'
Subject: RE: Advice requested: tape system


Is the VXA-1 that much better than DDS 4?

Adam Cohen





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
Of Daniel Knight
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 7:10 AM
To: retro-talk
Subject: Re: Advice requested: tape system


>However our company has grown some over time and the use of CD-R is no
longer
>a real option as it takes too long to do a full backup of the 30GB or so of
>data on the LAN.

I like VXA. Tapes hold 33 MB before compression, although I haven't hit
that level on my home network -- probably due to slow 6100s and Quadras
not able to send data fast enough. Cost for the drive ranges from $600 to
$1200+, depending on the deal you manage to find. Tapes are $80 each.

At work, we use AIT, which has a native capacity of 25 GB and averages
about 35 GB compressed. AIT seems to work better backing up older, slower
Macs on the network. I've never run *under* the tapes rated capacity, as
I did with my first VXA tape at home. Cost of drives is much higher
($2000+). Tapes are about $80, also.

I have no experience with DLT.

Dan Knight, IS manager/webmaster  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Baker Book House Company <http://www.bakerbooks.com>
6030 East Fulton   616-676-9185 x146
Ada, Michigan 49301 fax 616-676-9573

  Macs for productivity, Unix for stability, Windows for solitaire



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Re: Advice requested: tape system

[Matt Barkdull]

>I like VXA. Tapes hold 33 MB before compression,


I'd be changing tapes every 3 seconds!!:)  typo.  Should be GB.



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RE: Advice requested: tape system

[Adam Cohen]

Is the VXA-1 that much better than DDS 4?

Adam Cohen





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
Of Daniel Knight
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 7:10 AM
To: retro-talk
Subject: Re: Advice requested: tape system


>However our company has grown some over time and the use of CD-R is no
longer
>a real option as it takes too long to do a full backup of the 30GB or so of
>data on the LAN.

I like VXA. Tapes hold 33 MB before compression, although I haven't hit 
that level on my home network -- probably due to slow 6100s and Quadras 
not able to send data fast enough. Cost for the drive ranges from $600 to 
$1200+, depending on the deal you manage to find. Tapes are $80 each.

At work, we use AIT, which has a native capacity of 25 GB and averages 
about 35 GB compressed. AIT seems to work better backing up older, slower 
Macs on the network. I've never run *under* the tapes rated capacity, as 
I did with my first VXA tape at home. Cost of drives is much higher 
($2000+). Tapes are about $80, also.

I have no experience with DLT.

Dan Knight, IS manager/webmaster  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Baker Book House Company <http://www.bakerbooks.com>
6030 East Fulton   616-676-9185 x146
Ada, Michigan 49301 fax 616-676-9573

  Macs for productivity, Unix for stability, Windows for solitaire



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RE: Advice requested: tape system

[Geoff Rainville]

The VXA promotion has indeed been extended through September, but is not
available to our friends in the U.K.: limited to US and Canada only, since
it's a direct-sales promotion through the web store, and we don't (yet!)
sell in Europe. We're working on it.

Egghead offers a great price right now on V17 tapes, and I haven't checked
but some of the other e-tailers may be matching them.

Thanks for recommending our drive!!!

Geoff Rainville
Ecrix Corp.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
Of Ben Liberman
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 7:58 AM
To: retro-talk
Subject: Re: Advice requested: tape system


>At 8:58 AM +0100 9/18/00, Graham, Total Coverage Limited wrote:
>>For this comparison, I've included the VXA-1 at the promotional
>>price since it's been extended through Aug and is available to
>>everyone.

The VXA promotion has been extended through Sept.

   http://www.vxa.com/eval/index.cfm?a=834&p=aff


Also, in Graham's chart, the VXA V-17 media (33 gig native) is listed
at $67.  Anyone know where I can find it at this price?  The best
that I've found so far is ~72.50

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Re: Advice requested: tape system

[Church Initiative WebMaster]

> Also, in Graham's chart, the VXA V-17 media (33 gig native) is listed 
> at $67.  Anyone know where I can find it at this price?  The best 
> that I've found so far is ~72.50
> 

http://www.egghead.com/category/inv/00074283/03276001.htm

<><
Stiles Watson
Director of Information Services
The Church Initiative, Inc.
www.churchinitiative.org
www.divorcecare.org
www.griefshare.org



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Re: Advice requested: tape system

[Keepsake]

Graham Mitchell said:
>I am therefore looking for an economical, reliable tape based solution that
>can handle the job.

I've read discussions about using IDE drives.  You can get 40 GB 
drives for around $200.  At that price, you can get five drives, use 
one to write your backups to and then swap it out replacing it with 
the next hard drive.  I imagine that on Windoze you could even 
arrange for them to be hot swap-able.  I imagine it would be pretty 
fast, too.

EZ
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Re: Advice requested: tape system

[Ben Liberman]

>At 8:58 AM +0100 9/18/00, Graham, Total Coverage Limited wrote:
>>For this comparison, I've included the VXA-1 at the promotional 
>>price since it's been extended through Aug and is available to 
>>everyone.

The VXA promotion has been extended through Sept.

   http://www.vxa.com/eval/index.cfm?a=834&p=aff


Also, in Graham's chart, the VXA V-17 media (33 gig native) is listed 
at $67.  Anyone know where I can find it at this price?  The best 
that I've found so far is ~72.50

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Re: Advice requested: tape system

[Julia Frizzell]

At 8:58 AM +0100 9/18/00, Graham, Total Coverage Limited wrote:
>Hi
>I've been using Retrospect very successfully for some while now, backing up
>our small Mac LAN to recordable CDs.
>However our company has grown some over time and the use of CD-R is no longer
>a real option as it takes too long to do a full backup of the 30GB or so of
>data on the LAN.
>I am therefore looking for an economical, reliable tape based solution that
>can handle the job.
>There seem to be many different ysstems available on the market, but rather
>than wade through a pile of manufacturer misinformation I thought I would come
>straight to the horse's mouth, so to speak.
>What works?
>
>Any help or pointers that fellow list-users might be able to offer will be
>gratefully received.

This is from a previous post on the list, from the beginning of 
August. I hope this helps, and I hope Larry (and the list) doesn't 
mind my reposting...

At 1:36 AM -0700 8/3/00, Larry Acosta Wong wrote:

>I've added the two OnStream drives (ADR50 and SC30) in the internal 
>SCSI configurations (wide connector if available). I've listed the 
>pricing I can get to keep the comparison prices consistent.
>
>Steve Rothman, the Eliant 820 is an Exabyte drive utilizing an 8mm 
>helical scan tape. The VXA-1 media $/GB price is also actually a bit 
>higher than you calculated
>
>   Media
>   $/GB
>---
>Exabyte M2: 60GB,  12MB/s, $3777 ($80 media)  1.33
>Sony AIT-2: 50GB,   6MB/s, $3289 ($94 media)  1.88
>DLT 8000  : 40GB,   6MB/s, $3915 ($64 media)  1.60
>Sony AIT-1: 35GB,   3MB/s, $1913 ($88 media)  2.51
>VXA-1 : 33GB,   3MB/s,  $939 ($67 media)  2.03
>ADR50 : 25GB,   2MB/s,  $697 ($46 media)  1.84
>DDS-4 : 20GB,   3MB/s, $1072 ($33 media)  1.65
>Mammoth   : 20GB,   3MB/s, $2126 ($56 media)  2.80
>DLT 4000  : 20GB, 1.5MB/s, $1352 ($64 media)  3.20
>SC30  : 15GB,   2MB/S,  $438 ($41 media)  2.73
>Mammoth-LT: 14GB,   2MB/s, $1193 ($35 media)  2.50
>DDS-3 : 12GB,   1MB/s,  $777 ($16 media)  1.33
>Eliant 820:  7GB,   1MB/s, $1160 ( $8 media)  1.14
>DDS-2 :  4GB, .51MB/s,  $606 ( $7 media)  1.75
>
>-Native capacity listed, compressed capacity is typically 50% more
>-Sustained transfer rate listed
>-Cost is based on internal model with wide SCSI connector (if available)
>-VXA-1 tape drive is even cheaper through Ecrix July promo ($539)
>-Media listed is highest capacity format in single packs
>
>
>Here's how I personally chose which tape drive to go with:
>
>The way I figure, in order, the most important factors regarding the 
>tape backup system are:
>
>1. Reliability
>2. Performance
>3. Ease
>4. Cost
>
>Some of these items will be in different order for other people but 
>I think that reliability is always the most important factor in a 
>backup. (To stress my point, substitute the word "parachute" for 
>"backup." I'm sure you'll always choose the most reliable parachute 
>over any other.)
>
>Reliability: The key feature with a backup is the ability to restore 
>data and no tape system is 100% problem-free. But, only Ecrix makes 
>these ridiculous durability claims and actually backs it up with 
>extreme torture tests (boiling & freezing tapes). This is what 
>really got my attention on the VXA drives.
>
>Performance: You need to backup your users in the shortest amount of 
>time possible. If it takes you more than one night to create a full 
>backup, some users will go more than a day between backups thus 
>reducing your backup system's effectiveness. Plus, the less you 
>inconvenience your users, the less likely they'll keep "snoozing" 
>Retrospect when it starts a backup. But with a fast tape drive 
>you'll need a fast network and fast clients. Watch for the 
>bottleneck.
>
>Ease: higher capacity tapes reduce the amount of tape swapping that 
>needs to happen during a backup or restore. If it takes 5 tapes to 
>perform a full backup, then it'll take 5 nights before the full 
>backup is done and the first incremental backup can take place 
>meaning that some people will go 5 days between their full and 
>incremental backups. Ideally, a full backup will fit on a single 
>tape or you'll have an autoloader.
>
>Cost: lower = good but when computing the cost per GB, you must 
>factor in the cost of the tape drive as well. $7 media sounds really 
>appealing but weigh in drive cost, performance and storage capacity. 
>Below, I've computed actual cost per GB for my test scenario of 
>100GB total to backup, 3 storage sets.
>
>   Tran#Tapes  Total   True
>Model  (GB)   RatePrice Media  Req'd  Price   $/GB
>---
>VXA-1   333MB/s$539  $6712   $1,343   $3.39
>DDS-3   121MB/s$777  $1627   $1,209   $3.73
>DDS-24  .51MB/s$606   $775   $1,131   $3.77
>SC30152MB/s  

Re: Advice requested: tape system

[Daniel Knight]

>However our company has grown some over time and the use of CD-R is no longer
>a real option as it takes too long to do a full backup of the 30GB or so of
>data on the LAN.

I like VXA. Tapes hold 33 MB before compression, although I haven't hit 
that level on my home network -- probably due to slow 6100s and Quadras 
not able to send data fast enough. Cost for the drive ranges from $600 to 
$1200+, depending on the deal you manage to find. Tapes are $80 each.

At work, we use AIT, which has a native capacity of 25 GB and averages 
about 35 GB compressed. AIT seems to work better backing up older, slower 
Macs on the network. I've never run *under* the tapes rated capacity, as 
I did with my first VXA tape at home. Cost of drives is much higher 
($2000+). Tapes are about $80, also.

I have no experience with DLT.

Dan Knight, IS manager/webmaster  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Baker Book House Company 
6030 East Fulton   616-676-9185 x146
Ada, Michigan 49301 fax 616-676-9573

  Macs for productivity, Unix for stability, Windows for solitaire



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