Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: Handle disttag (#589)

2018-11-10 Thread Jeff Johnson
I should point out that there are far bigger issues than the separator if 
DistTag is incorporated as a package identifier:

1) precedence of comparison: is it EVRD (as is common with %{?dist} usage) or 
is it DEVR (as some might wish)

2) interoperability when mixtures of packages are installed with/without 
DistTag.

3) the dbiFindByLabelFoo() reads every package header in Packages (~100Mb), 
possibly multiple times, trying various matches. The proper way to perform a 
query like this is to create indices for each field and do a join to minimize 
the amount of data that must be read. A change to an rpmdb of that magnitude is 
highly unlikely.

(aside)
There is also the issues of patterns in queries: a join will not solve that 
problem. RPM5 uses a btree with a prefix key to find candidates to retrieve 
rather than retrieving every header. But I digress ...

Warning:
My comments here will be deleted within a week: I have negative interest in 
participating in a DistTag discussion that I have already had, and already 
implemented. Have fun!

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: Handle disttag (#589)

2018-11-10 Thread Jeff Johnson
E is always (when present) a digit string followed by a colon. Trying E: first 
in a greedy PCRE should resolve the ambiguity between N-E:V and N-V:D for all 
but an all digit V string (which is possible but quite rare in the real world, 
and easily worked around if encountered.

There are definite advantages IMHO trying to use a simple foo:bar:baz scheme 
rather than adding all sorts of ornamentation and forbidding characters in 
intervening fields. YMMV, have at, if the PCRE is read from configuration and 
used for parsing (as in RPM5), all the separators can (at least in principle) 
be changed to taste without changing code.

Another possible way to fix the error is to limit DistTag to a known reserved 
key word set or form and changing the PCRE.

The key issue is having a EVRD parser that never errors: unrolling the stack 
from EVRD parsing just isn't going to happen, and rpm has too much state to 
manage to just exit. In most cases the user will just receive a weird error and 
exit with a message if the ambiguity you point out is ever encountered.

Supplying more fields also avoids the ambiguity.


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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: Handle disttag (#589)

2018-11-10 Thread Jeff Johnson
Most definitely short forms of N, or N-V, or N-V-R, or N.A, or N-E:V, etc are 
supported by rpm queries, and not only on the CLI, but also in the API.

Adding DistTag just makes the package identifier retrieval "label" more 
complicated.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: Handle disttag (#589)

2018-11-10 Thread Jeff Johnson
And to be ultra pedantic for parsing a pathological string that has missing N, 
E, V, and A but explicit R and D, there would need to be two dashes in front of 
"release:disttag" from the rules I just described:

rpm --query -- --R:D

Yes this is a pathological corner case that assumes that missing/unspecified 
values are interpreted as matching any value.

But I can definitely foresee a need to query all packages with a given DistTag 
which would become

Rpm --query -- --:D

The ugly syntax can be hidden in various ways: what is important is that the 
underlying parser is fed a well formed unambiguous query string which can be 
matched against existing NEVRDA package identifiers with possible missing 
values to retrieve a set of packages of interest.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: Handle disttag (#589)

2018-11-10 Thread Jeff Johnson
@imz: it's the EVR string in a separate tag, not the NEVR or NEVRA (or variants 
including DistTag) identifiers where the parsing complexities (including 
missing values) are hidden.

The parsing rules (which you mentioned) that splits N from the rest (in an 
explicit NEVRDA) string is basically

The last dash is the separator between V-R, the 2nd to last dash is the 
separator between N and the rest. None of V or R or D or A may include a dash.

Arch parsing can be handled with a period, followed by key words like "i686" or 
"x86_64".

What remains is EVRD which must be parsed unambiguously whatever separator 
characters are used, including unspecified or missing values.

Epoch is a digit string up to the first colon, D (as in the PCRE) is whatever 
follows the last colon (and colon is a forbidden character in the D string).

The PCRE breaks the EVRD string into substrings assigned to known match indices 
while also handling missing/unspecified matches.



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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: Handle disttag (#589)

2018-11-10 Thread Jeff Johnson
In the interest of moving conversations about what character SHOULD be used as 
a separator for DistTag, I point you at the PCRE regex that has been in use for 
almost a decade here.

http://rpm5.org/cvs/fileview?f=rpm/macros/macros.in=1.39.2.52

See the 2 (one commented out) definitions of %evr_tuple_match. Both PCRE's as 
written  assume a ':' separator for both Epoch and DistTag. One can change the 
PCRE to use a '.' or '-' or '/' or whatever character one wishes to separate 
the serial representation of the tuple {E,V,R,D} (or T if twiddle-in-version is 
desired) that is desired.

So far no one has mentioned the added SuSE inspired twiddle-in-version parsing 
that is also necessary to handle in dependency strings if DistTag is handled.

All of the pseudo-regexes mentioned in this issue are incomplete. The PCRE I 
have pointed out can be used with pcregrep to do try-and-see experimentation 
with various representations of EVR if DistTag is added.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: Handle disttag (#589)

2018-11-10 Thread Jeff Johnson
Nit picky parsing comment:

The representation for "release:distag" (your example) fed to  --query MUST be 

rpm --query -- -release:distag

Without the leading - on release, a parser will interpret release as version, 
doh!

See if you agree ...



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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: Handle disttag (#589)

2018-11-10 Thread Jeff Johnson
@mlschroe: dependencies are a form of "package selection" and so DistTag will 
eventually be needed in EVRD or DEVR, just like multilib arch is needed (there 
are multiple RFE's and an implementation) to provide the desired specificity.

Presumably the "weird" package refresh mode you refer to is --install/-i, which 
is most definitely used by kernels, and promises never to erase any file or 
package. Kernel installs are special: the root problem is semantic confusion 
between "install" and "upgrade" as separate modes. The distinction (like 
--addsign/--resign) is too subtle for most users and should be coalesced by 
making --install and --update behave identically (pleasing most users) and 
devising a means to preserve kernel install behavior.

There is no point to a package specified DistTag related tracking dependency 
imho. And there is little reason (other than the reasoning I supplied above) 
for DistTag to be drilled throughout package dependencies. Similarly (but too 
late to change), there was little reason to drill Arch into package 
dependencies (coloring would have sufficed), but WYSIWYG and the RFE to add 
DistTag to file naming, and within version comparison, is entirely predictable.

Been there, done that, wrto DistTag 9y ago ... *yawn*

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] Handle DistTag (#594)

2018-11-09 Thread Jeff Johnson
Colon is a perfectly natural tuple separator widely used: see $PATH for an 
obvious example.

This is a parsing, not an aesthetic, issue whatever your opinion might be. 
Dependency tuples need to be easily parsed into a {E,V,R,D,...} tuple as simply 
and speedily as possible.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] Handle DistTag (#594)

2018-11-09 Thread Jeff Johnson
There are 2 parsing problems triggered by adding disttag:

1) how to represent distag in dependencies (omv used a ':' separator)
2) how to represent distag in package file names (omv used a '-' separator)

There is also the question of precedence in version comparison, whether disttag 
should be compared first, or last, or ignored.

One also has to worry about mixed mode comparisons, like EVR compared to EVRD 
(or DEVR), etc.

Adding a rpmlib(...) tracing dependency for disttag has multiple problems, not 
the least of which is that a package rebuild is needed to add/remove a disttag 
tracking dependency.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] Document --noverify in the man page (RhBug:1646458) (c4f285c)

2018-11-08 Thread Jeff Johnson
Overloading the meaning of "verify" for package, not installed, files is surely 
going to confuse users.

See similar history with "conflicts" which confused dependency and file 
conflicts.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] Rename parseBuildInstallClean() to something more generic (d6c4fff)

2018-11-06 Thread Jeff Johnson
build/parseSpec.c:804 has a cut-and-paste error

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: don't prevealuate lua macros (#556)

2018-10-02 Thread Jeff Johnson
@jasontibbitts: %luamacro would need to be implemented as a co-routine because 
of rpm's embedded  lua interpreter has a persistent global environment.

That is very different than shell code, where a sub-shell inherits but cannot 
change its parent's environment. With rpm+lua, all lua invocations run in the 
same globally persistent environment.

That is/was actually the intended feature so that variables in the lua context 
could be shared/passed between, say, %pre and %post scriptlets implemented 
using embedded lua.



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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: set builsubdir to the *first* extracted archive not the last one (#551)

2018-09-29 Thread Jeff Johnson
You have chosen rpm spec files and macros for your implementation.

Neither was designed for multiple builds in a single package, nor was rpm for 
that matter.

Instead of complaining about rpm deficiencies and quirks, you might wish to 
rethink your approach, look at the inputs of archive/patch names, choose 
whatever directory hierarchy you wish, and script up your "chained builds" in 
whatever programming language you choose.

Then run your "chained builds" within an rpm spec file.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: set builsubdir to the *first* extracted archive not the last one (#551)

2018-09-28 Thread Jeff Johnson
@nim-nim:

Your "nice properties" arguments are not persuasive.

Point by point:

1. Simple and easy to understand

For example, the common case of a single well formed compresset tarball with a 
patch  in a spec file is even simpler than your design:
 
%prep
%setup
%patch

2. It is simple and easy to explain

The example I just gave is trivial to explain

3. It is patch and preparation friendly

Depends entirely on your POV. Rpm was intended for simple packages that can be 
independently upgraded. Rather than trying to do a complex "chained" (actually 
serial unpacking, not chained builds) build, history has shown that decomposing 
into smaller pieces that are simpler to upgrade is quite efficient, more 
efficient than "make world" type builds.

4. it is spec maintenance friendly

The most often reported problem with spec maintenance these days is the cost of 
editing thousands of spec files, not how easy it is to "maintain" spec files. 
While it is certainly easy to delete lines Han it is to, say, change a macro 
value by editing, the drudgery of changing hundreds or thousands of files in 
order to conform to some Newer! Better! Bestest! Syntax or policy.


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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: add some syntax to specify a macro should not fail when used with a flag not declared to rpm argument parsing (#547)

2018-09-27 Thread Jeff Johnson
First: use a macro file, not a %define, to hide abc...XYZ. If you must have 
package specific macro overrides, the use %{load:...} and bury the override in 
a SourceN: directive. The most important reason to use a macrofile is 
readability: you can split a definition over multiple lines, unlike a %define, 
because macro files permit escaped new lines.

Second: if you don't want getopt(3) processing, then simply do not use a 
parameterized macro, and arrange for whatever helper you wish to execute to 
appear at the end of whatever expansion is attempted.

Third: your suggestion of the definition is at least a reasonable proposal. atm 
the string is exactly what getopt(3) expects, nothing more nor less. 
Parameterized macros cannot handle long options because getopt(3) cannot handle 
long options. And if the options/args are not parsed, then constructs like %* 
or %** are just "I want a pony" wishes.

Fourth: parameterized macros are not functions, nor is macro expansion anything 
more than recursive string substitution on mild steroids. If you have real 
programming needs, then use a real programming language like shell, Python, 
etc, instead of honking at length about rpm deficiencies.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: set builsubdir to the *first* extracted archive not the last one (#551)

2018-09-27 Thread Jeff Johnson
RPM has no concept of "chain building": there is only one build in the spec 
file, and there is only one SRPM.

Please define whatever terms you choose to make up before using so that others 
might understand your complaints.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: add some syntax to specify a macro should not fail when used with a flag not declared to rpm argument parsing (#547)

2018-09-27 Thread Jeff Johnson
That is indeed the case that some flags are handled by the macro processor, 
while others are passed along, when -- is used to stop getopt(3) option 
processing.

Long options would need a means to be specified in the macro definition, and 
multiple duplicated options, and or arg types, would also need to be included 
or appropriately defaulted.

Devise a syntax for what you are requesting if you wish this RFE implemented.

Or supply some reasonable usage case instead of just complaining.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: set builsubdir to the *first* extracted archive not the last one (#551)

2018-09-26 Thread Jeff Johnson
First of all, MaximumRPM was written in 1997, not 2000.

Second, the vast majority of packages have no need for a fancier %setup, nor 
enhancements like %autosetup. Most software has been distributed on the 
Internet as a tarball that can be downloaded, and most packages do not need 
anything more than the few lines of shell script that %setup generates to 
simplify packaging. Sure times have changed since last century: but surely you 
are not going to question that the dominant paradigm everywhere is a single tar 
ball, downloaded, and packaged, where %setup is quite adequate to do the job.

Third, bringing up issues like how URL's are represented in a SourceN: 
directive, and the parsing quirks in rpmbuild, has nothing whatsoever to do 
with %setup. RPM is not used as a downloader in production at any time this 
century. Nor is there any code in rpm-4.14 that can parse a URL: a string is 
passed to curl (or wget) which does the job, nothing more.

Fourth, positing that %setup should work as "people expect it to work" is pure 
sophistry. Packagers expect %setup to do what it has always done, across 25 
years of spec files and packaging. Every change to RPM has a huge ripple 
effect, the rate of adoption of any change is measured in years or decades, 
because of promises of long term support in enterprise distro's like RHEL and 
CentOS.

If you claim otherwise, or think it's time for a change, then by all means get 
off your bully pulpit and

Show me (and all of us) your code.



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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] Purge %_buildshell default. (#550)

2018-09-26 Thread Jeff Johnson
The values may be the same but the usage cases are not.

The single underscore was intended as the shell for the %build section, while 
the double underscore was intended to set defaults for the different build 
section sections.

You of course are permitted to do whatever you wish with whatever macros or 
values you wish to eliminate.



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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: set builsubdir to the *first* extracted archive not the last one (#551)

2018-09-24 Thread Jeff Johnson
Even simpler -- only one line of code needs to change -- would be to define 
_buildsubdir only if it is not already defined.

That might even permit overriding _buildsubdir to be set from the spec file, or 
-- with Yet Another POPT alias -- from the rpmbuild command line.

And of course %setup becomes even more complex and counter intuitive because 
the behavior then starts to be convolved with how a spec file is written, or 
how rpmbuild is invoked.

And %setup then starts to diverge from documented 20yo behavior.

(aside)
I recommend these solutions merely to shut you up and watch this RFE be closed: 
I'm tired of your pontifications about rpm's unfriendly user behavior that do 
not include PR's.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: set builsubdir to the *first* extracted archive not the last one (#551)

2018-09-24 Thread Jeff Johnson
FWIW, here is an implementation that would permit first rather than last 
definition of %_buildsubdir to be used under user control.

RPM5 permits read only macros which -- when set -- prevent a macro value from 
being changed.

The syntax prefixes a macro name with a '.' in order to set (actually toggle, 
but let's not go there) a read only flag.

The '.' is not part of the name, is stripped off to set a read only flag. Any 
attempt to redefine the macro value is ignored (and warned iirc).

The entire implementation is a couple dozen lines of code.

Adding another configurable macro to define whether _buildsubdir or its read 
only variant with a '.' prefix is to be used can be configured in rpm in 
multiple ways.

The read only variant will of course be the first, rather than the last, value 
defined by %setup, entirely satisfying the RFE stated herein.



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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: set builsubdir to the *first* extracted archive not the last one (#551)

2018-09-24 Thread Jeff Johnson
You are absolutely correct that %setup from time immemorial has been overly 
complicated, non-intuitive, and *documented*.

Expecting users to change their behavior 20y later is a political task, better 
left to distro packaging committees and package reviews: %setup does what 
%setup does.

Meanwhile you critiquing an implementation 20y later in multiple RFE's because 
it doesn't fit your obscure usage case isn't helpful either.

If %setup is not appropriate for whatever you are attempting, then

DO NOT USE %setup

It's really that simple.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: set builsubdir to the *first* extracted archive not the last one (#551)

2018-09-23 Thread Jeff Johnson
The %setup macro-in-c was never intended to be used multiple times: see the 
shell code generated, and look at the needless unnecessary commands generated 
if/when %setup is used multiple times.

You are likely better off (for whatever you are attempting) using %setup once 
to set %_buildsubdir, or even not using %setup at all, and writing the simple 
shell commands to unpack archives however you wish, rather than complaining 
about the (known since last century) Byzantine behavior of %setup

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: Provide macronized default option(s) for %setup (#549)

2018-09-22 Thread Jeff Johnson
There are no tar flags that I can think of that might be set globally through 
configuration, unlike patch, where kernel packagers in Fedora wished tighter 
control of fuzz.

Keeping old files makes sense only if untarring into a populated directory, 
almost never the case with rpm builds.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] 'rpm -qlv' does not correctly handle long owner and group name (#544)

2018-09-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
FWIW, rpm -qlv used exactly the same format as cpio(1) when implemented way 
back when.

Continuing that practice of using the same format as cpio(1) preserves output 
compatibility.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] 'rpm -qlv' does not correctly handle long owner and group name (#544)

2018-09-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
FWIW, rpm -qlv used exactly the same format as cpio(1) when implemented way 
back when.

Continuing that practice of using the same format as cpio(1) preserves output 
compatibility.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: add some syntax to specify a macro should not fail when used with a flag not declared to rpm argument parsing (#547)

2018-09-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
RPM already has support for %(...) shell diversions and %{lua:...} embedding, 
both of which are well known programming paradigms that should be used instead 
of macros wherever you find your efforts limited by lack of a failure message 
from a macro option/argument.


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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: useful lua errors (#545)

2018-09-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Expecting rpm to provide trackbacks with appropriate line numbers through 
multiple invocations of lua (and shell) is way out of scope for rpm.

Please provide an explicit example of a usage case where your debugging might 
have benefitted from better diagnostics, as well as a positive suggestion for 
what might be implemented in rpm to simplify your debugging needs.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: access to multivalued flags (#546)

2018-09-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Please provide an explicit example usage case that demonstrates the need (or 
benefit) of adding long options or multiple position sensitive option/argument 
parsing to macros.


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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: Provide option for %setup to strip path parts in tarballs (#548)

2018-09-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Ditto %setup: prototype an entirely different implementation with whatever 
improvements you wish to see instead of adding tortured additional syntax to 
the existing implementations of %setup and %patch.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: Provide option for %setup to strip path parts in tarballs (#548)

2018-09-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Changing %patch creates a bigger legacy compatibility problem than any "fix" 
solves.

If you truly think that %patch needs to be improved, the please prototype an 
entirely new macro-in-C implementation and add whatever you wish to see.

For starters, %patch in rpm is forced to carry options that were changed in 
patch(1) a long time ago.

And %patch does not permit specifying the myriad incompatible options of 
multiple incompatible decompressors that did not exist last century.

But forget changing %patch, replace with a new and different macro that does 
whatever you wish.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] %requires_eq breaks building in non-English locale (#541)

2018-09-20 Thread Jeff Johnson
FWIW, %_dbpath should be explicitly passed into the rpm query invocation in 
%requres_eq, principle of least surprise.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] %requires_eq breaks building in non-English locale (#541)

2018-09-20 Thread Jeff Johnson
And there is no --root with rpmbuild

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [PATCH] add support for scriptlet deps in generated deps

2018-09-13 Thread Jeff Johnson


> On Sep 13, 2018, at 7:21 AM, Panu Matilainen  wrote:
> 
>> On 9/13/18 12:38 PM, Thierry Vignaud wrote:
>> Le mer. 12 sept. 2018 à 19:15, Neal Gompa  a écrit :
>> In Mageia, we eg had:
>> 1) manual "requires(post)" or "requires(posttrans): info-install"
>> (info-install being the package containing /sbin/ /sbin/install-info
>> 2) plus manual %post or %posttrans calling install-info
>> 
>> This was a manual process, so it was sometimes missed in some pkgs.
> 
> 
> That's why Fedora switched to transfiletrigger. It is much better ;)
 
 But we still need the pkgs container the info files to require the
 needed /sbin/info-install
 
>> We've replaced those manual requires+scriptlets by a filetrigger.
>> But we still want info-install to be installed, so in order to replace
>> the manual requires, we want to automatically emit the requires on
>> info-install
>> But we don't want to emit "requires: info-install",
>> what we want really is "requires(posttrans): info-install"
>> 
>> The patch enables to emit requires for scriptlets or filetriggers.
> 
> 
> This is too specific use case I think..
 
 That's an example but there could be more
>>> 
>>> I think the idea usually is that the file trigger would not fire if
>>> the package isn't installed, so forcing a dependency here means that
>>> there was no benefit to separating it out to be run only when it was
>>> needed. It basically makes it impossible to avoid running the trigger.
>> Which is exactly the point here:
>> Again, here the policy was for all those pkgs to require info-install
>> & run it in %post or %posttrans
>> In order to ease packager work, we replaced this manual work by using
>> a filetrigger.
>> But we stil want info-isntall to be installed, hence this patch
>>> In the case of info, there's no point in running the info commands if
>>> info itself is not installed. You can't use them anyway. :)
>> Again, info-install was manually required before, we just want to automate 
>> that.
> 
> But you don't need scriptlet context dependecies for that.
> 
> There's actually a more generic issue behind this: content viewer 
> applications. You'll want an info-viewer for texinfo pages, a man page viewer 
> for man pages, a browser for html content etc.
> 
> I've occasionally played with the idea of generating viewer(mimetype) style 
> dependencies. Traditionally no such dependencies have been generated because 
> it is a bit dubious - "every system will have man installed", right, and same 
> for "info"? And if not then maybe it's for a reason, such as wanting a 
> minimal disk usage and install was done with --nodocs, in which case dragging 
> the viewer in would be highly counter-productive. It should be a soft 
> dependency if anything at all.
> 
> Info only differs from man in that there's a central registry that needs 
> updating, but that does bring up an interesting question: there are multiple 
> alternative viewer applications but only install-info from info itself can 
> maintain the registry. So where does the dependency on the package containing 
> the trigger script (and install-info) belong?
> 
> After a bit of thought over lunch, I think it actually belongs in the 
> viewers: as long as nobody wants to view those info files, there's no need to 
> maintain the registry. Once you install a viewer, that changes. But as long 
> as the viewers drag in the package with the trigger (so in this case "info"), 
> the trigger will run on the viewer installation and register all the files 
> already on disk.
> 

Here's a minority, contrarian POV:

Running cache/index rebuilds -- ldconfig, fonts, XML, etc -- should be 
implemented in rpm, implemented through a different mechanism than triggers.

Too much time and effort has been spent arranging dependencies and mechanisms 
in packaging for what is ultimately simple and obvious tasks.

With multiple (3 if you include rpm5) file trigger implementations, designing a 
common representation and mechanism is almost impossible.

*shrug*

73 de Jeff
>- Panu -
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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: make source less special (#539)

2018-09-09 Thread Jeff Johnson
Yes computing SourceN: spec file directives from %SOURCEN macros is an 
unnatural act.

The macros are generated when the directive is parsed and not vice vesa.

Whatever you are requesting (it's not clear) seems odd and unnatural.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] Test [Dependency generation] fails on Fedora Rawhide due to fakechroot problem (#511)

2018-09-04 Thread Jeff Johnson
Have another flaw reproducer using fakechroot with rpm4 "make check"

0) Create (and use) a symlink to the directory where rpm just built is under 
test.
1) Run "make check" in rpm4.

Hint: pseudo from the Yocto Project (written and maintained by Peter Seebach) 
is a mature and reliable replacement for fakechroot.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] build: Make sure SOURCE_DATE_EPOCH is in the past (#536)

2018-09-01 Thread Jeff Johnson
@bmwiedemann: you recently made neon "reproducible" and asked about upstream 
neon to send a patch.

This link likely has all the essential pointers:

https://github.com/aw/neon-unofficial-mirror

Neon is an ice library even if "old" and DAVFS peculiar (but with a large 
following on M$ Windoze)

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] build: Make sure SOURCE_DATE_EPOCH is in the past (#536)

2018-09-01 Thread Jeff Johnson


> On Sep 1, 2018, at 2:04 AM, Bernhard M. Wiedemann  
> wrote:
> 
> I'm already producing bit-identical RPMs using the 4 macros documented in
> https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Reproducible_Builds
> So no changes on digests or signatures are needed atm.
> 
> Inaccuracy of $SOURCE_DATE_EPOCH does not matter, as long as it is in the 
> past. Some people always set it to 1 (aka 1970-01-01 00:00:01) and are happy.
> 

If $SOURCE_DATE_EPOCH "does not matter", then any value will do, including a 
high precision  BUILDTIME tag from the *.src.rpm clamped on all files in 
packaging.

Distinct advantages to using a high precision build time everywhere include:
* many package rebuilds could be checked for reproducibility without using 
diffoscope
* clamped file mtimes become more compressible! including in metadata with 
zchunk.
* the file mtime tag becomes largely vestigial.
* the BUILDTIME becomes useful as a package identifier everywhere, including 
rebuilds.

While some of these issues are out of scope for your definition of 
reproducibility, all of the advantages above are closely related to some 
definition of reproducibility.

The changelog time parsing is/was deliberately sloppy, where 12 noon stood the 
greatest chance of not causing a date change if/when the timezone was set 
incorrectly.

Many build systems, and most end-user rebuilds, start from a src.rpm, not from 
a spec file because the SRPM contains all (at last by design if not in fact) 
necessary elements for a reproducible build.

POSIX routines to parse date/time are now widely deployed: not true last 
century.

There comes a time for improving rpm code rather than zombie marching ancient 
features into the future forevermore: legacy compatibility can be handled with 
an opt in or out logic to permit distributions the necessary decades to discuss 
and change as they wish.

> —
> You are receiving this because you commented.
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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] build: Make sure SOURCE_DATE_EPOCH is in the past (#536)

2018-08-31 Thread Jeff Johnson
See also the thread on RPMTAG_IDENTITY here on rpm-maint@, which is another 
attempt at "reproducibility" (in the sense of reproducible "packaging") that is 
perhaps more soundly based because the BUILDTIME and file times are 
deliberately excluded rather than being reset to some known time.

But all defends on how "reproducibility" is defined: if the definition of 
"reproducibility" includes file mtimes, well, one MUST change the file mtimes 
everywhere in packaging to achieve "reproducibility".

It would be nice if the so far independent efforts to set time stamps from 
recipes and have digest plaintext exclude per-build specific information 
somehow started to unify to a single useful approach.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] build: Make sure SOURCE_DATE_EPOCH is in the past (#536)

2018-08-31 Thread Jeff Johnson
See issue #197 for how to represent time stamps with nano/micro second 
precision in header tags with the least amount of legacy incompatibility.

There is an ISO standard for parsing high precision dates/times that rpm has 
never adopted, nor is the %changelog time stamp particularly accurate since it 
depends on conversions with time zone.

Try changing the day-of-week in the spec file %changelog to something 
incorrect, then display the changelog time stamp in the produced packages. 
Merges through git are also not handled sufficiently well: earlier time stamps 
can merge before later (which used to cause rpmbuild to fail, dunno current 
behavior).

The entire idea of "reproducibility" as a means to set an arbitrary time 
everywhere is somewhat suspect. The BUILDTIME has been used as a tie breaker 
with identical NEVRA in order to prefer one of several packages, based on the 
same heuristic that depsolvers use, that the "newer" NEVRA (or BUILDTIME) is 
preferred.

Reproducibility with buildids (I.e. digests) is a better overall approach.

JMHO, YMMV, everyone's does.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] build: Make sure SOURCE_DATE_EPOCH is in the past (#536)

2018-08-31 Thread Jeff Johnson
The real problem with setting a reproducible build time from a %changelog 
entriy is lack of precision in the syntax of the permitted time. Other flaws 
will eventually be discovered imho.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] %setup -T -a 0 -a 1 doesn't extract %{S:0} (#462)

2018-08-29 Thread Jeff Johnson
I should point out that multiple identical position sensitive option values end 
up as a stack of values even with getopt(3) parsing, and that the stack of 
option values could recreate the list of -a values to pass to %setup using the 
proposed syntax %{-@a: -a}, thereby fixing this issue.

However rpm maintainers do not wish to expose the fact that macro values are 
indeed stacks just in case there is a need to change macro expansions to 
support arrays in some TBD fashion.



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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] %setup -T -a 0 -a 1 doesn't extract %{S:0} (#462)

2018-08-29 Thread Jeff Johnson
First of all, there is nothing forcing anyone to use %autosetp, nor anything 
preventing anyone from redefining %autosetp to whatever is wished, including 
adding better diagnostics.

Meanwhile the flaw is in %setup through over-thinking, a design flaw that goes 
back to at least 1997.

If you read the appendix that fully documents the %setup options, there is an 
invocation of %setup that handles (by writing some shell commands) all known 
usage cases: 20+ years of useful packaging shows that even if you consider the 
implementation clunky and obscure and poorly documented (as I do).

There are several design flaws in %setup, the one exposed here is that 
parameterized macro functions, implemented using getopt(3), cannot handle 
multiple identical position sensitive option values.

Reimplementing parameterized macros using POPT, which can handle multiple 
option values unlike getopt(3), and adding a means to handle named macro 
tuples, to write some perfectly obvious and utterly trivial shell commands can 
be attempted.

Meanwhile: why bother? The rpm macro implementation is receiving an increasing 
number of bug reports, and useful extensions to automating checkouts with 
multiple VCS systems are hardly used.

Rewrite the whole mess if %autosetup's inability to handle multiple option 
values is deemed a show stopper sine qua non.

Or don't use %autosetup because it's known to be broken.

Or document the deficiency (though it's not at all clear where the %autosetup 
deficiency should be documented).

Or live with the flaw and complain mightily that "RPM sucks because ..." every 
other year or so, maintaining the status quo of open source development.

*shrug*



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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RPM must kill all childs on exit (from section?) (#134)

2018-08-29 Thread Jeff Johnson
None of systemd-nspawn, systemd-run, mock or Koji or (for that matter) bash 
have much to do with rpmbuild.

Expecting rpmbuild to solve complex issues involving runtime environment 
cleanup is bad craziness.

You might consider -- say -- reporting an RFE to systemd or mock or koji or 
bash to kill all children on exit to see why this RFE against rpmbuild is bad 
craziness. All of systemd/mock/Koji are much better positioned to determine the 
runtime environment in which rpmbuild runs than rpmbuild is.

Alternatively writing a wrapper (essentially what is already in systemd-run) 
that invokes rpmbuild and kills all children is entirely feasible. 

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] %setup -T -a 0 -a 1 doesn't extract %{S:0} (#462)

2018-08-29 Thread Jeff Johnson
Internalizing %autosetup in order to handle multiple identical position 
sensitive options in the already internalized %setup makes little sense: the 
goal was to permit users to change templating without recompiling rpm.

Better error messages can certainly be attempted by testing for non-existence 
of glue macros and using %error. Bullet-proofing failure modes through multiple 
layers of templating macros and shell and utilities is far beyond the 
functionality implemented through macro expansions for very little gain in 
usability.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] Skip showing Group in output of `rpm -qi` (#534)

2018-08-28 Thread Jeff Johnson
@pmatlai: LSB tried to adopt package standards already deployed: GROUP was 
mandatory in RPM at the time.

The rpm-3.0.6 format that LSB chose as a standard has been irrelevant since 
2002.

Removing GROUP from package content != eliminating GROUP usage entirely.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] Skip showing Group in output of `rpm -qi` (#534)

2018-08-27 Thread Jeff Johnson
@jasontibbitts: presumably you meant --queryformat, not POPT, which already can 
conditionally test for existence of tags in headers.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] Skip showing Group in output of `rpm -qi` (#534)

2018-08-27 Thread Jeff Johnson
Re "... key reason ..." 

This is revisionist history without basis in fact by an outsider who was not 
present at RedHat

Adding Group by value in package content forces rebuilds to Get It Right!.

The better implementation associates Group values with packages, not within 
packages, so that the Group taxonomy can be changed, or so that multiple 
taxonomies organized by Group can be supported simultaneously.

Readding support for the Group tag in packages within rpm libraries for 
alternative depsolver usage 15+ years later without addressing better 
implementations is a monumental mistake.


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Re: [Rpm-maint] RFC: RPMTAG_IDENTITY (whitelist filter)

2018-08-23 Thread Jeff Johnson



> On Aug 22, 2018, at 5:01 PM, Vladimir D. Seleznev  
> wrote:
...
> 
> Also its value may be needs a prefix for versioning tag value. When new
> tags are marked to be involve to calculating the prefix changes. I think
> the prefix should also include a vendor identifier e.g. fc, alt, mga,
> suse etc.
> 

If you are seriously considering supporting per-vendor definitions of IDENTITY 
plaintext content, then I suggest you take a look at how UUIDv3 and UUIDv5 are 
calculated to add a global naming authority (I.e. an XQuery URL).

I would also suggest using a document generated by headerFormat(), rather than 
compiling identity markers for tags into rpm, as the plaintext so that the 
definition of the plaintext used in IDENTITY for various vendors can easily be 
distributed and maintained outside of rpm.

All versions of rpm support --queryformat, and external CLI tools can be used 
to verify an RPM+UUID implementation (assuming you wish RPM itself to compute 
IDENTITY as a goal).

hth

73 de Jeff
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Re: [Rpm-maint] RFC: RPMTAG_IDENTITY (whitelist filter)

2018-08-23 Thread Jeff Johnson


> On Aug 22, 2018, at 5:01 PM, Vladimir D. Seleznev  
> wrote:
> 
> You convinced me that there should be whitelist filter, so I rewrote
> code for it. Follow Panu suggestion [1] I wrote .C generator to filter
> proper rpm tags. But currently it does not allow this suggestion [2] by
> jbj@:
> 
> "The members (and ordering) of the IDENTITY tag set might also
> need to be configurable without recompiling."
> 
> Currently I have no idea what is better way to do that. May be one of
> solution can be to define some macro that contains tag that should be in
> calculation, but this doest seem to be convenient and practical.
> 
> Also its value may be needs a prefix for versioning tag value. When new
> tags are marked to be involve to calculating the prefix changes. I think
> the prefix should also include a vendor identifier e.g. fc, alt, mga,
> suse etc.
> 

You might wish to read this thread to understand the complexities involved in 
maintaining plaintext that is reduced to a single value using a hash:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/de...@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/YOYJEKGZ3N4Q67TVOQ6MHBK37RESBVAQ/

The thread is about (essentially) an IDENTITY-like computation of installed 
packages, the discussion is about which representation of the tuple {N,E,V,R,A} 
is "best".

> While here is marker for tags that values should be involve to identity
> calculation, I think here should be special case for some of string
> array tags: a marker for processing array before calculation. For
> example, we want to filter some of value from package provides but we
> don't want to exclude the whole array from identity calculation. I think
> it could be done with one more marker with argument of array processing
> function that return (char *) — the result of string processing. There
> is difficulty that RPMTAG_PROVIDE* is three separate tags and I have no
> idea how to take it in consideration.
> 

One way to reduce the triple of tags used for dependencies into a single value 
to be added to IDENTITY is to convert to a string by using headerFormat. See 
what rpm does with queries like --provides.

> About patches: they are RFC, 0002 is mostly draft: there are obviously
> marked more than needed tags. I forgot to enhance commit message for
> 0003, so I'll do it in the next iteration.
> 
> Please comment.

73 de Jeff
> [1] http://lists.rpm.org/pipermail/rpm-maint/2018-April/007725.html
> [2] http://lists.rpm.org/pipermail/rpm-maint/2018-April/007721.html
> 
> 
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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] Skip showing empty Relocations line in rpm -qi (#532)

2018-08-23 Thread Jeff Johnson
@Conan-Kudo: non-RedHat based distro's stubborn use of Group: and other 
RPM_I18NSTRING_TYPE in spite of alternative implementations that solved real 
world problems forces ancient code to be zombie marched into the future 
forevermore. Distro's continuing to use Group: tags from rpm packages instead 
of more modern and easier to change mechanisms like yum groups are an 
impediment to progress.

The issues run far far deeper than optionally displaying tags from packages 
with rpm --info

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] Skip showing empty Relocations line in rpm -qi (#532)

2018-08-23 Thread Jeff Johnson
Or rip out the entire relocation implementation, leaving only parsing of 
Prefix: for legacy spec file syntax compatibility perhaps: the implementation 
is almost entirely useless currently because of lack of persistence, and the 
difficulty of propagating relocated paths into file triggers and depsolver 
metadata.

It's not just the use of valuable real estate with rpm --info.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] Skip showing empty Relocations line in rpm -qi (#532)

2018-08-23 Thread Jeff Johnson
Relocations in RPM are a vestigial implementation: in fact every path can be 
relocated all this century independent of whether there is one or more Prefix: 
tags in a spec file.

The existence of one or more Prefix: tags controls whether a warning is 
displayed (or not).

If the relocations were made persistent, and propagated from old to new header 
during upgrade, then the implementation becomes useful.

For extra credit, one might relocate file dependencies as well.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] %setup -T -a 0 -a 1 doesn't extract %{S:0} (#462)

2018-08-23 Thread Jeff Johnson
Modern POPT will collect multiple instances of an option in an argv array.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFC: What approach to improving performance through threads or non-blocking I/O is acceptable in RPM? (#517)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #517.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: run rpm scripts on a different thread using MQTT pub/sub message queues (#519)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #519.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] BUG: rpmpopt.in has aliases for --httpport that do nothing useful (#525)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #525.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] BUG: macros.in has comments about database configuration that no longer apply even to BDB (#526)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #526.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] BUG: rpmpopt.in execs of rpmsign are insufficiently complete for legacy compatibility (#527)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #527.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFC: use rpmgi consistently with all rpm modes/helpers (#529)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #529.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFC: save existing files before replacing, restore original on %post (or other) failure (#531)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #531.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] SECURITY: applications use rpm to access the userid, but rpm does not verify binding signatures (#528)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #528.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] BUG: macros.in should supply a better suggested key server than pgp.mit.edu (#530)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #530.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: rpm --import no longer permits importing GPG pubkeys from SKS key servers (#523)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #523.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: macros.in documents http/ftp proxy host/port configuration (#522)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #522.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: bringing LMDB out of experimental state (#520)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #520.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: rpmbuild --root should undertake similar operations to rpm --root running scripts (#510)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #510.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFC: add support for message queues to rpmbuild (#509)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #509.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] FYI: RPM+BDB using the CDB model appears to have a race condition (#507)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #507.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: teach rpm to supply a backtrace when exiting abnormally (#493)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #493.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: use exceptions within macro expansion to deliver errors out of band (#495)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #495.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: rpm needs two i18n domains, one for executables, the other for libraries (#505)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #505.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: add explicit file dependency on the elf loader to use if not implied by glibc libc.so.6 dependency (#489)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #489.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: display *.rpm queries in install order (#481)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #481.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: permit query formats to be read from @file (#476)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #476.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFC: permit erasures to be mixed into install/upgrade transactions (#475)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #475.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] BUG: $1 and $2 arguments passed to scriptlets go awry for renamed package upgrades (#474)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #474.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: add %prep/%build/%install scriptlets to SRPM headers (#467)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #467.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: add macros used during a build to SRPM header (#466)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #466.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: implement configurable policy for features used in packages (#460)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #460.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: add a way to access the installed NVRA and install time without accessing an rpmdb (#459)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #459.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: permit HMAC-XXX for digest XXX (#455)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #455.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: differentiate file and directory dependencies using a trailing '/' (#439)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #439.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: Permit applications to append tags to headers simply (#432)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #432.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: make rpm object ref counting atomic (#430)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #430.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: rpm should permit a means to add arbitrary tags to packages (#413)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #413.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: Permit %load/%expand recursive expansion while reading a macrofile (#410)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #410.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: the macro test-for-existence %{?...} does not scope directly across builtins (#409)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #409.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: file triggers should be path component only. (#412)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #412.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RPM backend performance is limited by arrays of hdrNum's (#290)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #290.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RPM+NDB should implement ndb_dump/ndb_load/ndb_stat for database dumps. (#289)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #289.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RPM+NDB doesn't implement ndb_SetFsync() (#288)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #288.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] Adding header tag formats to generate UUIDS (#269)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #269.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] Adding namespaces for macros (#246)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #246.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] Retrofitting a format version on *.rpm packaging. (#172)

2018-08-21 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #172.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: handle lists/tuples within macro expansions (#503)

2018-08-20 Thread Jeff Johnson
@Conan-Kudo: we differ on what a serious patch is: both zstd and LMDB were 
shooting fish in a barrel. 

Give them a bit of a break ... from what? Ignoring issues takes zero effort.

I am not on iirc, it's a waste of time for me.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] Make sure all dependencies for scriptlet are installed before executing them (#436)

2018-08-20 Thread Jeff Johnson
@cgwalters: re "speaking of dependency loops and scripts"

yes the current state of affairs with setup and filesystem is insane. Those 
packages should be combined, and the dependency that drags in filesystem (or 
%setup if you prefer that name) as a prerequisite of glibc should be cast into 
stone.

The original intent was to use setup to populate /etc/passwd before filesystem 
in a chroot so that unusual ownership (I.e. not root:root) of directories/files 
might be undertaken without a warning message from rpm.

The issues involved in getting owners correct in rpm before name services were 
functional was worked around by hard wiring certain  common lookups in rpm 
itself.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFC: please reopen issue #458: the checkin you cited is not present in the github browsable code (#514)

2018-08-20 Thread Jeff Johnson
Closed #514.

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Re: [Rpm-maint] [rpm-software-management/rpm] RFE: rpm --import no longer permits importing GPG pubkeys from SKS key servers (#523)

2018-08-20 Thread Jeff Johnson
There are certainly failure modes if firewalls or chroot's prohibit accessing 
SKS ports.

That is not a failure of the code in RPM.

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