Re: libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Thorsten Leemhuis]

On 06.09.2016 12:28, Xavier Bachelot wrote:
>
> If mirroring libdvdcss is still a concern, we may want to ship libdvdcss 
> in a dedicated repo so mirrors can exclude it easily.
> If that is not enough, we might do as Fedora does for openh264, that is 
> use the RPM Fusion infra for the SCM and building the package, but 
> upload it to another host. Given Pix mail from this morning, I guess it 
> could be where Livna was hosted.

I wonder if in this case it might make most sense to just continue to
use the established rpm.livna.org brand for stuff that is to hot even
for RPM Fusion. People with upload access and signing keys are reading
this list afaik. Guess that's why livna seems to have gotten fresh
packages and support for current Fedora releases recently.

Cu, knurd

Re: libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Sérgio Basto]

On Ter, 2016-09-06 at 12:13 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> On 09/06/2016 10:03 AM, Nicolas Chauvet wrote:
> > 
> > 2016-09-06 9:48 GMT+02:00 Ralf Corsepius :
> > > 
> > > On 09/01/2016 06:56 PM, Xavier Bachelot wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Nicolas, can you share your thoughts on this?
> > > libdvdcss's legal situation in Germany is widely unclear[1].
> > > 
> > > According to German laws cracking "wirksame technische Maßnahmen“
> > > ("effective technical measures") of copy protection is unlawful.
> > > 
> > > The fundamental question in this context is: "Does CSS (still)
> > > qualify as an
> > > effective technical measures of copy protection?"
> > > 
> > > Answer: Nobody knows. Only courts would be able to answer this
> > > question.
> > > 
> > > I.e. the legal risks of libdvdcss have not changed for years,
> > > i.e. should
> > > libdvdcss binaries enter RPMFusion, esp. German RPMFusion mirror
> > > owners/mirror managers are not unlikely to be confronted with
> > > legal action.
> > How many legal action have occurred ?
> AFAICT, none. I am inclined to believe all German sites shied away
> from 
> shipping libdvdcss, to avoid these risks.

Reading this thread and think about, my conclusion is: that is an kind
of politic decision ... , and maybe we should contact a lawyer. One
idea/suggestion that I recalled, is workaround the problem of legality
doing a statement like "we remove package if someone ask for it with
one legal support decision" , the fact is : we don't have an expressed
decision that is nonlegal , so until then we may consider legal, if
someone "ask" to remove wiit based on some law, we remove it and don't
have problem, anyway a lawyer can help in terms that we can use .
I prefer not have an special repo and keep it simple. 

> Ralf
-- 
Sérgio M. B.

Re: libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Sérgio Basto]

On Ter, 2016-09-06 at 12:43 +0200, Xavier Bachelot wrote:
> > http://unitedrpms.sourceforge.net/x86_64/repoview/libdvdcss.html
> > 
> >
> Is United RPMs here to stay or was that a temporary workaround while
> the
> RPM Fusion infra was worked on ?
> Sérgio, maybe ?

Yes for me is a temporary workaround and later, maybe, a 4th party
repo. I found DavidVa on internet, I like his work in postinstallerf  (
https://sourceforge.net/projects/postinstaller/ ), and he have updates
for many packages not just in RPMFusion , also for Fedora proper. I'm
trying to convince him to report things on the source, instead do
duplicated packages , but he and Paul don't like follow the rules ,
they like bundle sources, do  big hacks etc etc, which I can't or is
not allowed on RPMFusion. So now I'm just watching ...

To exemplify avidemux, I merge our repo (via github) to unitedrpms repo
and https://github.com/UnitedRPMs/avidemux/commit/61da31ff518ffbe183638
f308c844af9b62f42dc

Unitedrpms don't have any infrastructure, use github, sf.net, gitlab,
google+ and just have x86_64 packages !

Unitedrpms have others sources like openh264, vo-aacenc , fdk-aac, we
are going only discus libdvdcss ? or we may extend for other patents
problems . 

Best regards,
-- 
Sérgio M. B.

Re: libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Adrian Reber]

On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 12:43:40PM +0200, Xavier Bachelot wrote:
> On 05/09/2016 15:56, Andrea Musuruane wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 9:10 PM, Nicolas Chauvet <kwiz...@gmail.com
> > <mailto:kwiz...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > > As a package maintainer and end-user, I think it'd be valuable to have
> > > libdvdcss in RPM Fusion.
> > >
> > > If there is some concern about mirroring, though, perhaps we could
> > create a
> > > *third* repository for this sort of even more dubious package?
> > Which I guess
> > > at the moment would just be libdvdcss and anything that depends on
> > it. Then
> > > mirrors that don't / can't ship it simply don't mirror this
> > additional repo.
> > 
> > That reminds me how openh264 is dealt with in fedora.
> > Can anyone sum-up the existing methods used by various distro about
> > this issue ?
> > 
> > 
> > I did a little research.
> > 
> Thanks for the research, this is much appreciated.

On my mirror a 'locate libdvdcss' gives me multiple copies of libdvdcss
binary and source code package for following mirrored content:

atrpms
pcbsd
openbsd
openmandriva
linuxmint
alpine
ccux-linux
debian-multimedia
freshrpms
rootlinux
repoforge
livna
Mageia
archlinux
gentoo

[...]

> I'd like to add :
> 3.5 : use RPM Fusion for SCM and build, but ship the binaries from
> elsewhere
> (ala openh264 in Fedora, built in Fedora infra, but shipped from
> Cisco)

That sounds like a good idea.

Adrian

Re: libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Xavier Bachelot]

Hi,

On 05/09/2016 15:56, Andrea Musuruane wrote:

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 9:10 PM, Nicolas Chauvet <kwiz...@gmail.com
<mailto:kwiz...@gmail.com>> wrote:

> As a package maintainer and end-user, I think it'd be valuable to have
> libdvdcss in RPM Fusion.
>
> If there is some concern about mirroring, though, perhaps we could
create a
> *third* repository for this sort of even more dubious package?
Which I guess
> at the moment would just be libdvdcss and anything that depends on
it. Then
> mirrors that don't / can't ship it simply don't mirror this
additional repo.

That reminds me how openh264 is dealt with in fedora.
Can anyone sum-up the existing methods used by various distro about
this issue ?


I did a little research.


Thanks for the research, this is much appreciated.


libdvdcss is Mageia Tainted repository, an official Mageia repository
that hosts packages that they may infringe on patents and copyright laws
in some countries. E.g. most multimedia codecs are shipped in this
repository.

Mageia is backed up by a French non-profit organization (just like RPM 
Fusion).



It is included in Arch Linux, in the extra repository (i.e. non core
packages).

libdvdcss is not included in Debian, Ubuntu and SUSE.

Debian users must use Debian Multimedia repository - which is not part
of the Debian project but it is maintained by Debian developers or
maintainers and therefore it seems similar to RPM Fusion.
https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-multimedia/libdvdcss.git/tree/debian
<https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-multimedia/libdvdcss.git/tree/debian>

Debian multimedia also provides libdvd-pkg. `dpkg-reconfigure
libdvd-pkg` may be used to build and install  libdvdcss* package(s).
https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-multimedia/libdvdcss-pkg.git/tree/debian
<https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-multimedia/libdvdcss-pkg.git/tree/debian>

This package is also provided in Ubuntu 15.10+ and it must how their
users must install libdvdcss:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs
<https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs>

Debian/Ubuntu uses can also use a VideoLAN repository to install libdvdcss:
http://www.videolan.org/developers/libdvdcss.html
<http://www.videolan.org/developers/libdvdcss.html>

VideoLAN also hosts a repository for SuSE users which includes libdvdcss.

Libdvdcss is already packaged for Fedora in Remi's RPM repository and in
United RPMS.
http://rpms.famillecollet.com/fedora/24/remi/i386/repoview/libdvdcss.html 
<http://rpms.famillecollet.com/fedora/24/remi/i386/repoview/libdvdcss.html>


The problem with Remi's repo is it ships much more than just libdvdcss, 
and at least some of the packages it ships will replace packages from 
Fedora.



http://unitedrpms.sourceforge.net/x86_64/repoview/libdvdcss.html
<http://unitedrpms.sourceforge.net/x86_64/repoview/libdvdcss.html>


Is United RPMs here to stay or was that a temporary workaround while the
RPM Fusion infra was worked on ?
Sérgio, maybe ?


Summarizing, these are the methods we can implement:

 1. ship libdvdcss in the free repository
 2. ship libdvdcss in a newly created repository
 3. ship a package that can build and install libdvdcss in the free
repository


I'd like to add :
3.5 : use RPM Fusion for SCM and build, but ship the binaries from 
elsewhere (ala openh264 in Fedora, built in Fedora infra, but shipped 
from Cisco)



 4. don't ship libdvdcss and refer to another (non RPM Fusion
maintained) repository

Maybe we should ask various RPM Fusion mirror maintainers what they
think about and what is their preferred method to ship libdvdcss.

Bye,

Andrea



Regards,
Xavier

Re: libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Xavier Bachelot]

On 06/09/2016 10:03, Nicolas Chauvet wrote:

2016-09-06 9:48 GMT+02:00 Ralf Corsepius :

On 09/01/2016 06:56 PM, Xavier Bachelot wrote:


Nicolas, can you share your thoughts on this?


libdvdcss's legal situation in Germany is widely unclear[1].

According to German laws cracking "wirksame technische Maßnahmen“
("effective technical measures") of copy protection is unlawful.

The fundamental question in this context is: "Does CSS (still) qualify as an
effective technical measures of copy protection?"

Answer: Nobody knows. Only courts would be able to answer this question.

I.e. the legal risks of libdvdcss have not changed for years, i.e. should
libdvdcss binaries enter RPMFusion, esp. German RPMFusion mirror
owners/mirror managers are not unlikely to be confronted with legal action.


How many legal action have occurred ?



My understanding is a lot of countries have provision for 
inter-operability (including the US). I don't know if such a provision 
exists in Germany, but that would then allow to ship libdvdcss safely.


I had a short discussion with Adrian about mirrors. I may not be 
transcribing his words exactly, but he basically said shipping libdvdcss 
is not worst than all the patent encumbered stuff for US mirrors. We can 
still reach specifically to mirror admins to get their feeling.


If mirroring libdvdcss is still a concern, we may want to ship libdvdcss 
in a dedicated repo so mirrors can exclude it easily.
If that is not enough, we might do as Fedora does for openh264, that is 
use the RPM Fusion infra for the SCM and building the package, but 
upload it to another host. Given Pix mail from this morning, I guess it 
could be where Livna was hosted. That is more burden on the RPM Fusion 
infra and infra admins though... And it is not as straight-forward and 
convenient for end-users.


Regards,
Xavier

PS: the link to the page I created in the wiki about libdvdcss :
http://rpmfusion.org/libdvdcss

Re: libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Ralf Corsepius]

On 09/06/2016 10:03 AM, Nicolas Chauvet wrote:

2016-09-06 9:48 GMT+02:00 Ralf Corsepius :

On 09/01/2016 06:56 PM, Xavier Bachelot wrote:


Nicolas, can you share your thoughts on this?


libdvdcss's legal situation in Germany is widely unclear[1].

According to German laws cracking "wirksame technische Maßnahmen“
("effective technical measures") of copy protection is unlawful.

The fundamental question in this context is: "Does CSS (still) qualify as an
effective technical measures of copy protection?"

Answer: Nobody knows. Only courts would be able to answer this question.

I.e. the legal risks of libdvdcss have not changed for years, i.e. should
libdvdcss binaries enter RPMFusion, esp. German RPMFusion mirror
owners/mirror managers are not unlikely to be confronted with legal action.


How many legal action have occurred ?


AFAICT, none. I am inclined to believe all German sites shied away from 
shipping libdvdcss, to avoid these risks.


Ralf

Re: libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Nicolas Chauvet]

2016-09-06 9:48 GMT+02:00 Ralf Corsepius :
> On 09/01/2016 06:56 PM, Xavier Bachelot wrote:
>
>>> Nicolas, can you share your thoughts on this?
>
> libdvdcss's legal situation in Germany is widely unclear[1].
>
> According to German laws cracking "wirksame technische Maßnahmen“
> ("effective technical measures") of copy protection is unlawful.
>
> The fundamental question in this context is: "Does CSS (still) qualify as an
> effective technical measures of copy protection?"
>
> Answer: Nobody knows. Only courts would be able to answer this question.
>
> I.e. the legal risks of libdvdcss have not changed for years, i.e. should
> libdvdcss binaries enter RPMFusion, esp. German RPMFusion mirror
> owners/mirror managers are not unlikely to be confronted with legal action.

How many legal action have occurred ?



-- 
-

Nicolas (kwizart)

Re: libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Ralf Corsepius]

On 09/01/2016 06:56 PM, Xavier Bachelot wrote:


Nicolas, can you share your thoughts on this?

libdvdcss's legal situation in Germany is widely unclear[1].

According to German laws cracking "wirksame technische Maßnahmen“ 
("effective technical measures") of copy protection is unlawful.


The fundamental question in this context is: "Does CSS (still) qualify 
as an effective technical measures of copy protection?"


Answer: Nobody knows. Only courts would be able to answer this question.

I.e. the legal risks of libdvdcss have not changed for years, i.e. 
should libdvdcss binaries enter RPMFusion, esp. German RPMFusion mirror 
owners/mirror managers are not unlikely to be confronted with legal action.


Ralf

[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libdvdcss

Re: libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Gaël STEPHAN]

My 2 cts ( i'm the host of livna and download1.rpmfusion.org), as you
all know i host them in a private AS in France, so you can do as you
want with my server, providing the lib
in the rpmfusion vhost is not a problem for me :) Feel free!

Pix



Le 05/09/2016 à 15:56, Andrea Musuruane a écrit :
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 9:10 PM, Nicolas Chauvet <kwiz...@gmail.com
> <mailto:kwiz...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > As a package maintainer and end-user, I think it'd be valuable
> to have
> > libdvdcss in RPM Fusion.
> >
> > If there is some concern about mirroring, though, perhaps we
> could create a
> > *third* repository for this sort of even more dubious package?
> Which I guess
> > at the moment would just be libdvdcss and anything that depends
> on it. Then
> > mirrors that don't / can't ship it simply don't mirror this
> additional repo.
>
> That reminds me how openh264 is dealt with in fedora.
> Can anyone sum-up the existing methods used by various distro
> about this issue ?
>
>
> I did a little research.
>
> libdvdcss is Mageia Tainted repository, an official Mageia repository
> that hosts packages that they may infringe on patents and copyright
> laws in some countries. E.g. most multimedia codecs are shipped in
> this repository.
>
> It is included in Arch Linux, in the extra repository (i.e. non core
> packages).
>
> libdvdcss is not included in Debian, Ubuntu and SUSE.
>
> Debian users must use Debian Multimedia repository - which is not part
> of the Debian project but it is maintained by Debian developers or
> maintainers and therefore it seems similar to RPM Fusion.
> https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-multimedia/libdvdcss.git/tree/debian
> <https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-multimedia/libdvdcss.git/tree/debian>
>
> Debian multimedia also provides libdvd-pkg. `dpkg-reconfigure
> libdvd-pkg` may be used to build and install  libdvdcss* package(s).
> https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-multimedia/libdvdcss-pkg.git/tree/debian
> <https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-multimedia/libdvdcss-pkg.git/tree/debian>
>
> This package is also provided in Ubuntu 15.10+ and it must how their
> users must install libdvdcss:
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs
> <https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs>
>
> Debian/Ubuntu uses can also use a VideoLAN repository to install
> libdvdcss:
> http://www.videolan.org/developers/libdvdcss.html
> <http://www.videolan.org/developers/libdvdcss.html>
>
> VideoLAN also hosts a repository for SuSE users which includes libdvdcss.
>
> Libdvdcss is already packaged for Fedora in Remi's RPM repository and
> in United RPMS.
> http://rpms.famillecollet.com/fedora/24/remi/i386/repoview/libdvdcss.html
> <http://rpms.famillecollet.com/fedora/24/remi/i386/repoview/libdvdcss.html>
> http://unitedrpms.sourceforge.net/x86_64/repoview/libdvdcss.html
> <http://unitedrpms.sourceforge.net/x86_64/repoview/libdvdcss.html>
>
> Summarizing, these are the methods we can implement:
>
>  1. ship libdvdcss in the free repository
>  2. ship libdvdcss in a newly created repository
>  3. ship a package that can build and install libdvdcss in the free
> repository
>  4. don't ship libdvdcss and refer to another (non RPM Fusion
> maintained) repository
>
> Maybe we should ask various RPM Fusion mirror maintainers what they
> think about and what is their preferred method to ship libdvdcss.
>
> Bye,
>
> Andrea
>
>

Re: libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Andrea Musuruane]

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 9:10 PM, Nicolas Chauvet <kwiz...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > As a package maintainer and end-user, I think it'd be valuable to have
> > libdvdcss in RPM Fusion.
> >
> > If there is some concern about mirroring, though, perhaps we could
> create a
> > *third* repository for this sort of even more dubious package? Which I
> guess
> > at the moment would just be libdvdcss and anything that depends on it.
> Then
> > mirrors that don't / can't ship it simply don't mirror this additional
> repo.
>
> That reminds me how openh264 is dealt with in fedora.
> Can anyone sum-up the existing methods used by various distro about this
> issue ?
>

I did a little research.

libdvdcss is Mageia Tainted repository, an official Mageia repository that
hosts packages that they may infringe on patents and copyright laws in some
countries. E.g. most multimedia codecs are shipped in this repository.

It is included in Arch Linux, in the extra repository (i.e. non core
packages).

libdvdcss is not included in Debian, Ubuntu and SUSE.

Debian users must use Debian Multimedia repository - which is not part of
the Debian project but it is maintained by Debian developers or maintainers
and therefore it seems similar to RPM Fusion.
https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-multimedia/libdvdcss.git/tree/debian

Debian multimedia also provides libdvd-pkg. `dpkg-reconfigure libdvd-pkg`
may be used to build and install  libdvdcss* package(s).
https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-multimedia/libdvdcss-pkg.git/tree/debian

This package is also provided in Ubuntu 15.10+ and it must how their users
must install libdvdcss:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs

Debian/Ubuntu uses can also use a VideoLAN repository to install libdvdcss:
http://www.videolan.org/developers/libdvdcss.html

VideoLAN also hosts a repository for SuSE users which includes libdvdcss.

Libdvdcss is already packaged for Fedora in Remi's RPM repository and in
United RPMS.
http://rpms.famillecollet.com/fedora/24/remi/i386/repoview/libdvdcss.html
http://unitedrpms.sourceforge.net/x86_64/repoview/libdvdcss.html

Summarizing, these are the methods we can implement:

   1. ship libdvdcss in the free repository
   2. ship libdvdcss in a newly created repository
   3. ship a package that can build and install libdvdcss in the free
   repository
   4. don't ship libdvdcss and refer to another (non RPM Fusion maintained)
   repository

Maybe we should ask various RPM Fusion mirror maintainers what they think
about and what is their preferred method to ship libdvdcss.

Bye,

Andrea

Re: libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Nicolas Chauvet]

2016-09-01 21:38 GMT+02:00 Ben Rosser <rosser@gmail.com>:
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Xavier Bachelot <xav...@bachelot.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> On 23/07/2016 08:27, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
>>>
>>> On 07/08/2016 12:59 PM, Xavier Bachelot wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The reasoning is VideoLAN is a French organization and libdvdcss is
>>>> legal in France.
>>>> Seehttp://www.videolan.org/legal.html
>>>>
>>>> Starting from that point, the first question to answer to be able to
>>>> distribute libdvdcss in RPM Fusion is which laws do apply to RPM Fusion.
>>>> As all (?) of the servers are hosted in France, I believe the French law
>>>> applies and thus it should be safe. But indeed, that is just what I
>>>> understand from RPM Fusion infrastructure and I might be wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Second question is, do the people that run the RPM Fusion infra and thus
>>>> might be considered liable for the distributed content accept the
>>>> potential legal risk, which is pretty low if French laws apply, but is
>>>> still non-null. Also, just like I'm unsure where the servers are
>>>> located, I'm unsure of the Infra head count and names.
>>>>
>>>> I'll reach out to VideoLAN as soon as we have answers to the above
>>>> questions.
>>>> Also, once the above are answered, we can then talk about how the RPM
>>>> Fusion contributors feel about libdvdcss, but my (biased) feeling is
>>>> most of current contributors are ok . However, there have been some
>>>> people that were advert to having libdvdcss in RPM Fusion in the past. I
>>>> don't know who they are, what were their exact reasoning, if they are
>>>> still active or not and if they've changed their mind. That's why I was
>>>> calling especially for opinions against distributing libdvdcss.
>>>
>>>
>>> Nicolas, can you share your thoughts on this?
>>
>>
>> Now that the summer vacations are coming to an end, hopefully more people
>> are around and can raise their voice.
>> Infra people, packages maintainers, mirror admins, end-users, don't be
>> shy, let us know what you think about including libdvdcss in RPM Fusion.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Xavier
>
>
> As a package maintainer and end-user, I think it'd be valuable to have
> libdvdcss in RPM Fusion.
>
> If there is some concern about mirroring, though, perhaps we could create a
> *third* repository for this sort of even more dubious package? Which I guess
> at the moment would just be libdvdcss and anything that depends on it. Then
> mirrors that don't / can't ship it simply don't mirror this additional repo.

That reminds me how openh264 is dealt with in fedora.
Can anyone sum-up the existing methods used by various distro about this issue ?

Thx


-- 
-

Nicolas (kwizart)

Re: libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Ben Rosser]

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Xavier Bachelot <xav...@bachelot.org>
wrote:

> On 23/07/2016 08:27, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
>
>> On 07/08/2016 12:59 PM, Xavier Bachelot wrote:
>>
>>> The reasoning is VideoLAN is a French organization and libdvdcss is
>>> legal in France.
>>> Seehttp://www.videolan.org/legal.html
>>>
>>> Starting from that point, the first question to answer to be able to
>>> distribute libdvdcss in RPM Fusion is which laws do apply to RPM Fusion.
>>> As all (?) of the servers are hosted in France, I believe the French law
>>> applies and thus it should be safe. But indeed, that is just what I
>>> understand from RPM Fusion infrastructure and I might be wrong.
>>>
>>> Second question is, do the people that run the RPM Fusion infra and thus
>>> might be considered liable for the distributed content accept the
>>> potential legal risk, which is pretty low if French laws apply, but is
>>> still non-null. Also, just like I'm unsure where the servers are
>>> located, I'm unsure of the Infra head count and names.
>>>
>>> I'll reach out to VideoLAN as soon as we have answers to the above
>>> questions.
>>> Also, once the above are answered, we can then talk about how the RPM
>>> Fusion contributors feel about libdvdcss, but my (biased) feeling is
>>> most of current contributors are ok . However, there have been some
>>> people that were advert to having libdvdcss in RPM Fusion in the past. I
>>> don't know who they are, what were their exact reasoning, if they are
>>> still active or not and if they've changed their mind. That's why I was
>>> calling especially for opinions against distributing libdvdcss.
>>>
>>
>> Nicolas, can you share your thoughts on this?
>>
>
> Now that the summer vacations are coming to an end, hopefully more people
> are around and can raise their voice.
> Infra people, packages maintainers, mirror admins, end-users, don't be
> shy, let us know what you think about including libdvdcss in RPM Fusion.
>
> Regards,
> Xavier
>

As a package maintainer and end-user, I think it'd be valuable to have
libdvdcss in RPM Fusion.

If there is some concern about mirroring, though, perhaps we could create a
*third* repository for this sort of even more dubious package? Which I
guess at the moment would just be libdvdcss and anything that depends on
it. Then mirrors that don't / can't ship it simply don't mirror this
additional repo.

Ben Rosser

Re: libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Xavier Bachelot]

On 23/07/2016 08:27, Michael Cronenworth wrote:

On 07/08/2016 12:59 PM, Xavier Bachelot wrote:

The reasoning is VideoLAN is a French organization and libdvdcss is
legal in France.
Seehttp://www.videolan.org/legal.html

Starting from that point, the first question to answer to be able to
distribute libdvdcss in RPM Fusion is which laws do apply to RPM Fusion.
As all (?) of the servers are hosted in France, I believe the French law
applies and thus it should be safe. But indeed, that is just what I
understand from RPM Fusion infrastructure and I might be wrong.

Second question is, do the people that run the RPM Fusion infra and thus
might be considered liable for the distributed content accept the
potential legal risk, which is pretty low if French laws apply, but is
still non-null. Also, just like I'm unsure where the servers are
located, I'm unsure of the Infra head count and names.

I'll reach out to VideoLAN as soon as we have answers to the above
questions.
Also, once the above are answered, we can then talk about how the RPM
Fusion contributors feel about libdvdcss, but my (biased) feeling is
most of current contributors are ok . However, there have been some
people that were advert to having libdvdcss in RPM Fusion in the past. I
don't know who they are, what were their exact reasoning, if they are
still active or not and if they've changed their mind. That's why I was
calling especially for opinions against distributing libdvdcss.


Nicolas, can you share your thoughts on this?


Now that the summer vacations are coming to an end, hopefully more 
people are around and can raise their voice.
Infra people, packages maintainers, mirror admins, end-users, don't be 
shy, let us know what you think about including libdvdcss in RPM Fusion.


Regards,
Xavier

Re: libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Michael Cronenworth]

On 07/08/2016 12:59 PM, Xavier Bachelot wrote:

The reasoning is VideoLAN is a French organization and libdvdcss is
legal in France.
Seehttp://www.videolan.org/legal.html

Starting from that point, the first question to answer to be able to
distribute libdvdcss in RPM Fusion is which laws do apply to RPM Fusion.
As all (?) of the servers are hosted in France, I believe the French law
applies and thus it should be safe. But indeed, that is just what I
understand from RPM Fusion infrastructure and I might be wrong.

Second question is, do the people that run the RPM Fusion infra and thus
might be considered liable for the distributed content accept the
potential legal risk, which is pretty low if French laws apply, but is
still non-null. Also, just like I'm unsure where the servers are
located, I'm unsure of the Infra head count and names.

I'll reach out to VideoLAN as soon as we have answers to the above
questions.
Also, once the above are answered, we can then talk about how the RPM
Fusion contributors feel about libdvdcss, but my (biased) feeling is
most of current contributors are ok . However, there have been some
people that were advert to having libdvdcss in RPM Fusion in the past. I
don't know who they are, what were their exact reasoning, if they are
still active or not and if they've changed their mind. That's why I was
calling especially for opinions against distributing libdvdcss.


Nicolas, can you share your thoughts on this?

Re: libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Xavier Bachelot]

Hi Michael,

On 07/07/2016 23:51, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> On 07/02/2016 04:47 PM, Xavier Bachelot wrote:
>> Any comments are welcome, I'll enhance the wiki page with them.
>> I'm especially interested in comments_against_  hosting libdvdcss in RPM
>> Fusion, with facts on why it would be bad.
>> Once we'll have enough input, we can then collectively try to reach a
>> decision on what to do with libdvdcss.
> 
> Can you reach out to VideoLAN on their reasoning?
> 
> Kodi has decided to force bundling of libdvd{css,nav,read} and my
> attempts at removing libdvdcss support result in a non-functional Kodi
> in regards to reading DVDs. Even non-encrypted DVDs.
> 

The reasoning is VideoLAN is a French organization and libdvdcss is
legal in France.
See http://www.videolan.org/legal.html

Starting from that point, the first question to answer to be able to
distribute libdvdcss in RPM Fusion is which laws do apply to RPM Fusion.
As all (?) of the servers are hosted in France, I believe the French law
applies and thus it should be safe. But indeed, that is just what I
understand from RPM Fusion infrastructure and I might be wrong.

Second question is, do the people that run the RPM Fusion infra and thus
might be considered liable for the distributed content accept the
potential legal risk, which is pretty low if French laws apply, but is
still non-null. Also, just like I'm unsure where the servers are
located, I'm unsure of the Infra head count and names.

I'll reach out to VideoLAN as soon as we have answers to the above
questions.
Also, once the above are answered, we can then talk about how the RPM
Fusion contributors feel about libdvdcss, but my (biased) feeling is
most of current contributors are ok . However, there have been some
people that were advert to having libdvdcss in RPM Fusion in the past. I
don't know who they are, what were their exact reasoning, if they are
still active or not and if they've changed their mind. That's why I was
calling especially for opinions against distributing libdvdcss.

Regards,
Xavier

Re: libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Michael Cronenworth]

On 07/02/2016 04:47 PM, Xavier Bachelot wrote:

Any comments are welcome, I'll enhance the wiki page with them.
I'm especially interested in comments_against_  hosting libdvdcss in RPM
Fusion, with facts on why it would be bad.
Once we'll have enough input, we can then collectively try to reach a
decision on what to do with libdvdcss.


Can you reach out to VideoLAN on their reasoning?

Kodi has decided to force bundling of libdvd{css,nav,read} and my attempts at 
removing libdvdcss support result in a non-functional Kodi in regards to reading 
DVDs. Even non-encrypted DVDs.


Thanks,
Michael

libdvdcss in RPM Fusion ?

[Xavier Bachelot]

Hi,

It's been a few years we did not discuss hosting libdvdcss in RPM
Fusion, and as Livna seems to be really dead now, I'd like to have this
discussion again.

As this has already been discussed many time, I gathered some
information in a wiki page :

http://rpmfusion.org/libdvdcss

Any comments are welcome, I'll enhance the wiki page with them.
I'm especially interested in comments _against_ hosting libdvdcss in RPM
Fusion, with facts on why it would be bad.
Once we'll have enough input, we can then collectively try to reach a
decision on what to do with libdvdcss.

Regards,
Xavier