On 9/6/11 7:12 AM, Jason Grout wrote:
current thread on scipy-dev
Sorry; it's on scipy-user. The link is still correct.
Jason
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On 9/6/11 12:46 AM, David Ketcheson wrote:
I may have been too harsh in using the term 'disaster'. I am
certainly glad that scipy exists, but I use it with extreme caution.
First, it is quite disorganized. Say you want to solve an ODE.
First, you have to know to import scipy.integrate (importi
Le 06/09/2011 07:46, David Ketcheson a écrit :
I may have been too harsh in using the term 'disaster'. I am
certainly glad that scipy exists, but I use it with extreme caution.
First, it is quite disorganized. Say you want to solve an ODE.
First, you have to know to import scipy.integrate (imp
I may have been too harsh in using the term 'disaster'. I am
certainly glad that scipy exists, but I use it with extreme caution.
First, it is quite disorganized. Say you want to solve an ODE.
First, you have to know to import scipy.integrate (importing scipy
doesn't give you scipy.integrate, fo
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 18:31, William Stein wrote:
> scipy
just for the sake of completeness, the next layer above scipy are those scikits:
http://scikits.appspot.com/scikits
especially scikit-learn ( http://scikit-learn.sourceforge.net/stable/
) is quite interesting (ex google summer of code pr
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 1:25 AM, Juanlu001 wrote:
> Sorry David, could you clarify what parts of Scipy do you think are a
> disaster? Just for curiosity. I am a student and I am trying nowadays to use
> these Python packages to perform numerical computations, and I am very
> interested on what is b
Sorry David, could you clarify what parts of Scipy do you think are a
disaster? Just for curiosity. I am a student and I am trying nowadays to use
these Python packages to perform numerical computations, and I am very
interested on what is being said in this thread.
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On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Maarten Derickx
wrote:
> Sorry, don't have acces to matlab, maybe I should have stayed out of this
> discussion and forget my prejudice about matlab.
No worries! I've been hanging out on sage-flame too much recently, so
I'm sorry that my response was so inapprop
Sorry, don't have acces to matlab, maybe I should have stayed out of this
discussion and forget my prejudice about matlab.
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On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Maarten Derickx
wrote:
> There was one very concrete thing that I found out recently that would
> probably have set me off if I was a matlab user trying to switch to sage.
> sage: (-2.0)^(1/3)
> 0.629960524947437 + 1.09112363597172*I
(1) If I remember correctly,
There was one very concrete thing that I found out recently that would
probably have set me off if I was a matlab user trying to switch to sage.
sage: (-2.0)^(1/3)
0.629960524947437 + 1.09112363597172*I
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Qualifications to answer this question:
-I have used MATLAB for 10 years in my research
-About 3 years ago, I mostly switched to Python+numpy/scipy/
matplotlib, and I lead a project that includes about a dozen people
developing code in Python
-I use SAGE (mainly the notebook) in my teaching.
Fo
On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Paul Leopardi
wrote:
> Hi William,
> On Aug 16, 5:58 am, William Stein wrote:
>> If somebody walked up to *you* and asked: "Is Sage now a viable
>> alternative to MATLAB?" what would you say?
>> I'm especially interested in what people who do numerical/applied
>>
Hi William,
On Aug 16, 5:58 am, William Stein wrote:
> If somebody walked up to *you* and asked: "Is Sage now a viable
> alternative to MATLAB?" what would you say?
> I'm especially interested in what people who do numerical/applied
> computation think.
>
> My answer: "It's very difficult for *me*
Trying not to hijack this thread ...
Why do people use particular software (e.g. Matlab vs. Octave
vs. ..Sage..)
a. Their teacher tells them to use it
b. They do not pay for it anyway (school license, company license)
c. They know it works and they don't have to mess with installing it.
d. Their
On 8/25/11 4:42 AM, v...@ukr.net wrote:
Another example - one of them asked me: "Where can I find a complete
list of functions available in Sage?" I had to explain him that Sage
includes a number of mathematical packages each one having its own
documentation, reference manuals, examples and so
On Aug 20, 12:30 pm, William Stein wrote:
> Since you mention "InputForm[]", I can't help but mention Sage's
> analogue of that (written by Carl Witty), which is called
> "sage_input":
After posting, I knew I should have done a modicum of research first.
Thanks for the reminder about sage_input()
On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Rob Beezer wrote:
> I find the preparser perilous. It does some great things, such as the
> "F. =" syntax. But every addition seems to come with a high cost.
> The *.sage/*.py dichotomy is confusing for new folks who want to write
> scripts immediately. And the
I find the preparser perilous. It does some great things, such as the
"F. =" syntax. But every addition seems to come with a high cost.
The *.sage/*.py dichotomy is confusing for new folks who want to write
scripts immediately. And then there is the whole Integer() quagmire.
On the flip side, I
On Aug 20, 7:11 am, Chris Godsil wrote:
> And if P is a graph then P.am().charpoly()
> works but P.charpoly() does not
> (but both A.characteristic_polynomial() and
> P.characteristic_polynomial() do).
Patch to enable P.charpoly() ready for review at:
http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/1
On 8/20/11 10:07 AM, Harald Schilly wrote:
I completely agree with you! Also, just adding this parsing of
matrix-strings doesn't change anything in terms of
adoption-friendliness. It might be nice for playing around or solving
some educational examples, but it's irrelevant for the average matlab
On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 16:11, Chris Godsil wrote:
> The point being that consistency is more important than the details of
> syntax,
> in part because it makes the syntax easier to learn and to remember.
I completely agree with you! Also, just adding this parsing of
matrix-strings doesn't change
Simon
You raise a number of very good points. In my case, my matrices are
produced by some other routine or
will be read in from a file. When I do type in small matrices, I've
never found the syntax to be
a problem. The sort of thing that has annoyed me is that matrix() and
Matrix() both work, but
It's a good point that for most work you don't type in matrices by
hand. What is more useful is probably various ways of inspecting
matrices easily (print submatrices, plot the sparsity pattern,
evaluate expressions involving the matrix, etc.)
On 20 Aug., 00:21, Simon King wrote:
> On 19 Aug., 2
On 8/19/11 5:21 PM, Simon King wrote:
The line break replaces the semicolon, hence, the example that you
give corresponds to [1,2,;3,4] (which hopefully is a syntax error in
Matlab), while the second version becomes [1,2;3,4] (which seems to be
the matlab idea of a matrix).
Again, matlab is (s
On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Simon King wrote:
> On 19 Aug., 21:26, Jason Grout wrote:
>> But then what about:
>>
>> [1, 2,
>> 3, 4]
>
> Note the small difference:
> [1,2,
> 3,4]
> is a list in Python. But
> [1,2
> 3,4]
> (if I am not mistaken) is a syntax error in Python, and thus the
> prep
On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Nils Bruin wrote:
> On Aug 19, 12:26 pm, Jason Grout wrote:
>> On 8/19/11 1:45 PM, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
>>
>> > [a, b; c, d].change_ring(QQ)
>
> You'd have to take care that
>
> [1.0001, 1.0; 2.0,
> 3.0].change_ring(RealField(100))
>
> d
On 19 Aug., 21:26, Jason Grout wrote:
> But then what about:
>
> [1, 2,
> 3, 4]
Note the small difference:
[1,2,
3,4]
is a list in Python. But
[1,2
3,4]
(if I am not mistaken) is a syntax error in Python, and thus the
preparser could preprocess it and turn it into a matrix:
The line break replac
On 8/19/11 4:25 PM, Nils Bruin wrote:
In analogy to (a,) being a singleton, this should probably be
[a,b,c,d;]
Interesting. In python, this is often stated as "the comma operator
makes a tuple, not the parentheses". So we're saying that the semicolon
is what makes a matrix. Interesting. S
On 8/19/11 3:59 PM, William Stein wrote:
On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Volker Braun wrote:
For the 1-row matrix case, how about
[1, 2, 3, 4; ]
This is similar to the one-element tuple (1,) in Python.
I like that.
Interestingly, it works in MATLAB, but not in PARI.
It makes sense to work
On Aug 19, 12:26 pm, Jason Grout wrote:
> On 8/19/11 1:45 PM, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
>
> > [a, b; c, d].change_ring(QQ)
You'd have to take care that
[1.0001, 1.0; 2.0,
3.0].change_ring(RealField(100))
doesn't lose precision on the way, which suggests that "[;]" syntax
s
On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Volker Braun wrote:
> For the 1-row matrix case, how about
> [1, 2, 3, 4; ]
> This is similar to the one-element tuple (1,) in Python.
I like that.
Interestingly, it works in MATLAB, but not in PARI.
William
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For the 1-row matrix case, how about
[1, 2, 3, 4; ]
This is similar to the one-element tuple (1,) in Python.
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On 8/19/11 1:45 PM, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
[a, b; c, d].change_ring(QQ)
What if I want a 1-row matrix. Will this work?
[a,b,c,d]
Of course, this will be a problem since that is valid list syntax. For
that reason, it seems more consistent that the semicolon is a shortcut
for doubly-ne
> More on topic, I strongly agree with the sentiments that we are trying
> to create a viable alternative, not a clone. Sage does lack a concise
> syntax for matrices which are a pretty basic type, and I think this
> deficiency is probably worth addressing with the preparser. The [a, b;
> c, d] syn
For the record, Maple also provides a specialized matrix/vector constructor
<1,2,3> = column vector, <1|2|3> = row vector and nested <> brackets created
matrices by gluing vectors together, so
<<1,2>|<3,4>> = transpose( <<1|3>,<2|4>>)
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On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 5:27 AM, leif wrote:
> On 19 Aug., 12:12, Harald Schilly wrote:
>> On Friday, August 19, 2011 12:02:14 PM UTC+2, leif wrote:
>>
>> > It shouldn't be that hard to implement functions which at least
>> > partially translate MATLAB / Mma / whatever syntax (passed as a
>> > st
On Fri, 2011-08-19 at 05:27 -0700, leif wrote:
> ___
> * I vaguely remember to have once seen some [quite old?] list / table
> mapping Mma function names to Sage's, but I'm not aware it is part of
> the Sage distribution or prominently advertised. I may be wrong of
> course.
On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 14:27, leif wrote:
> I didn't have a fully-fledged compiler (or clone) in mind …
ok, good ;)
About your tutorials and documentation ideas, I think what could help
at least for the start is to mention the respective function in the
documentation. Then, when someone searche
On 8/19/11 2:55 AM, Johan S. R. Nielsen wrote:
On the other hand, I think it would of course think it would be great
if all functionality needed for numerics people would be readily
available in Sage.
Since we rely so much on numpy/scipy for this stuff, maybe we could
continue to invite some o
On 8/19/11 4:54 AM, dahl.joac...@gmail.com wrote:
Personally I don't mind that the syntax is different.
I was about to give some examples of indexing and slicing
of Numpy arrays, which I remembered to be odd for matrices, but
then I realized that the indexing/slicing works exactly like
I expect
On 19 Aug., 12:12, Harald Schilly wrote:
> On Friday, August 19, 2011 12:02:14 PM UTC+2, leif wrote:
>
> > It shouldn't be that hard to implement functions which at least
> > partially translate MATLAB / Mma / whatever syntax (passed as a
> > string, or from a file) to corresponding Sage expressio
On Friday, August 19, 2011 12:02:14 PM UTC+2, leif wrote:
>
>
> It shouldn't be that hard to implement functions which at least
> partially translate MATLAB / Mma / whatever syntax (passed as a
> string, or from a file) to corresponding Sage expressions and
> commands, analoguous to preparse().
Hi, I also studied numerical mathematics and I completely agree on you:
On Friday, August 19, 2011 9:55:58 AM UTC+2, Johan S. R. Nielsen wrote:
>
> that's a very small syntax price to pay for …
>
I would also say that this is not the point at all. Parsing a string
representing a matrix should be
On 19 Aug., 09:55, "Johan S. R. Nielsen"
wrote:
> However, I really don't believe that the current matrix-construction
> syntax is what is seriously keeping Matlab people away from Sage --
> and if it is, then that's simply silly! Comparing
>
> M = [1 2;
> 3 4;
> 5 6]
>
> with
>
> M = ma
Personally I don't mind that the syntax is different.
I was about to give some examples of indexing and slicing
of Numpy arrays, which I remembered to be odd for matrices, but
then I realized that the indexing/slicing works exactly like
I expect it to, e.g.,
>>> A[:, i]
picks out the i'th column
>
> Seems this thread *has* been hijacked. ;-)
Just want to add my opinion, which belongs in some void between the
original thread and the hijacked one ;-)
I am a ph.d. student in algebra, but have a background in computer
science. I don't do much numerics anymore, so I'm not exactly the
right p
>
> Good point. It turns out to be much harder if we don't just assume numbers.
> I guess one way to do it would be to construct a parse tree using the
> python parsing, except, of course, that semicolons make [1 2 3; 4 5 6] not
> valid syntax, though I suppose we could replace semicolons and new
On 8/18/11 12:29 AM, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Jason Grout
wrote:
On 8/17/11 10:02 PM, Nils Bruin wrote:
On Aug 17, 5:45 pm, Dan Drakewrote:
This is now #11699:http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/11699
I agree with Rob; this probably should be in ma
I develop optimization software professionally, and I use both Matlab
and Python
extensively.
I only use Matlab for prototyping numerical algorithms and inspecting
and manipulation matrices. I tend to stick with Matlab/Octave because
constructing/inspecting matrices is so simple and the linear alg
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Jason Grout
wrote:
> On 8/17/11 10:02 PM, Nils Bruin wrote:
>>
>> On Aug 17, 5:45 pm, Dan Drake wrote:
>>>
>>> This is now #11699:http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/11699
>>>
>>> I agree with Rob; this probably should be in matrix(), and not in the
>>> prep
On Aug 17, 8:02 pm, Nils Bruin wrote:
> The bigger problem is: How do you convert the strings representing
> matrix entries to sage? What is going to be the base ring of the
> matrix? This determines what to use instead of the "eval" above.
Seems this thread *has* been hijacked. ;-)
I believe c
On 8/17/11 10:02 PM, Nils Bruin wrote:
On Aug 17, 5:45 pm, Dan Drake wrote:
This is now #11699:http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/11699
I agree with Rob; this probably should be in matrix(), and not in the
preparser.
Are you thinking of having matrix(s) [with s a string] being
equival
On Aug 17, 5:45 pm, Dan Drake wrote:
> This is now #11699:http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/11699
>
> I agree with Rob; this probably should be in matrix(), and not in the
> preparser.
Are you thinking of having matrix(s) [with s a string] being
equivalent to
matrix([[eval(a) for a in r.
On Aug 17, 5:45 pm, Dan Drake wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 at 10:36AM -0500, Jason Grout wrote:
> > Note that "matrix" below is the *scipy* matrix command, since -pylab
> > overwrote Sage's matrix command. However, matrix multiplication works
> > naturally below, and the matrix-creating command
On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 at 10:36AM -0500, Jason Grout wrote:
> Note that "matrix" below is the *scipy* matrix command, since -pylab
> overwrote Sage's matrix command. However, matrix multiplication works
> naturally below, and the matrix-creating command uses matlab-like
> syntax.
>
> sage: a=matrix("
On Aug 17, 9:00 am, Jason Grout wrote:
> Another option is to make the preparser recognize syntax like:
>
> [1 2 3; 4 5 6; 7 8 9]
The preparser is evil. ;-)
Seriously, if we are going to preparse a matrix, I should think we
would allow multiline input as a prerequisite.
http://trac.sagemath.or
On 8/17/11 10:40 AM, Ivo Hedtke wrote:
Am 17.08.2011 um 17:36 schrieb Jason Grout:
One conclusion: we should make Sage's matrix command accept a string like the
above example and parse it as matlab would.
+1
Another option is to make the preparser recognize syntax like:
[1 2 3; 4 5 6; 7
On 8/17/11 7:59 AM, Chris Godsil wrote:
Dima
Thanks for the comments. First I was aware of the eigenspaces()
command. I am also aware that things are
improving all the time. For my actual example I needed an orthonormal
basis for each eigenspace and the
graphs are pretty random, so the eigenvalu
graph eigenspaces (with default settings, maybe they can be tweaked?) are
quite adequate for up to 25-30 vertices, then it get very slow, indeed...
For the kind of computations you have in mind, I prefer using cvxopt (a Sage
package); although it's primarily
for optimization, it has a nice spar
I didn't ask the question, but still want to really thank Tim, Chris,
and Jordi for their detailed, thoughtful and incisive comments that
greeted my RSS feed this morning! Very useful and informative.
- kcrisman
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Dima
Thanks for the comments. First I was aware of the eigenspaces()
command. I am also aware that things are
improving all the time. For my actual example I needed an orthonormal
basis for each eigenspace and the
graphs are pretty random, so the eigenvalues are more or less
arbitrary reals.
Seco
Chris,
On Wednesday, 17 August 2011 11:37:02 UTC+8, Chris Godsil wrote:
[...]
> One big advantage of sage is that one can do numerical calculations
> along with
> computations in algebra or number theory or graph theory...
> For my own work I find myself wanting to do numerical computations on
I have not used matlab a lot, and not for some time, but I have
colleagues in
numerical optimization who use it heavily. I think there is
essentially no chance
that such people would move from matlab to sage. The only complaints I
have heard are
occasional mutterings about licensing. Matlab has ver
Hi Kresimir, hi all,
On 16 Aug., 21:49, Kresimir Kumericki wrote:
> ... I use sage for fast prototyping of a new project, but
> when stuff gets serious I export everything to python-numpy-vim because
> jumping around huge worksheet is just too awkward and slows me down.
My impression of the sage
On Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:41:36 PM UTC+2, Pedro Cruz wrote:
> Sagenotebook has the advantage of shareable over the net worksheets but
> the editing 83 functions on it became hardwork because of those jumps on
> screen
>
> This is exactly my feeling. In my case (I do both symbolical and num
Yes and no. I know a largish community, people working on interior point
methods for nonlinear optimization, where it is rather hard to get around
without Matlab. Partly this is due to relative easiness of creating Matlab
interfaces to C and Fortran code, which makes experimenting easier
Ma
On 8/16/11 2:44 AM, Rob Beezer wrote:
I have to be careful, because I would not claim to be a numerical
linear algebraist, so I am willing to be corrected - but I think an LU
decomposition would be the first choice for an alternative to rref.
It is basically what we used to call Gaussian elimina
On 8/16/11 1:38 AM, William Stein wrote:
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Rob Beezer wrote:
On Aug 15, 12:58 pm, William Stein wrote:
If somebody walked up to *you* and asked: "Is Sage now a viable
alternative to MATLAB?" what would you say?
Good question.
If you consider "matrix algebra"
Dear Sage project leader,
My experience is about Sage 4.6.2:
For numerical computations I have quieted of Sage/Sagenotebook and use only
scipy/numpy directly using vim and shell.
Sagenotebook has the advantage of shareable over the net worksheets but the
editing 83 functions on it became har
MIT's online linear algebra course with Gilbert Strang
mentions rref as one of the very first functions in Matlab.
On Tue, 2011-08-16 at 00:44 -0700, Rob Beezer wrote:
> On Aug 15, 11:38 pm, William Stein wrote:
> > It sound like it wouldn't be difficult for you to name one single
> > Matlab matr
On Aug 15, 11:38 pm, William Stein wrote:
> It sound like it wouldn't be difficult for you to name one single
> Matlab matrix function that engineers would actually use that
> Numpy/Scipy doesn't have? I wonder why it's not in numpy yet.
Sorry, I couldn't parse that. Did you mean "would" in
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Rob Beezer wrote:
> On Aug 15, 12:58 pm, William Stein wrote:
>> If somebody walked up to *you* and asked: "Is Sage now a viable
>> alternative to MATLAB?" what would you say?
>
> Good question.
>
> If you consider "matrix algebra" as the core functionality of MAT
On Aug 15, 12:58 pm, William Stein wrote:
> If somebody walked up to *you* and asked: "Is Sage now a viable
> alternative to MATLAB?" what would you say?
Good question.
If you consider "matrix algebra" as the core functionality of MATLAB,
then I think Sage could very easily be a viable alternati
On 8/15/11 2:58 PM, William Stein wrote:
Hi,
If somebody walked up to *you* and asked: "Is Sage now a viable
alternative to MATLAB?" what would you say?
I'm especially interested in what people who do numerical/applied
computation think.
My answer: "It's very difficult for *me* to answer this q
On Aug 15, 3:58 pm, William Stein wrote:
> Hi,
>
> If somebody walked up to *you* and asked: "Is Sage now a viable
> alternative to MATLAB?" what would you say?
> I'm especially interested in what people who do numerical/applied
> computation think.
An answer that's been given to me a number of
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