Re: [sage-devel] Re: ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

[David Roe]

I will delete any messages to this thread in the next week.  I encourage
people who have not yet engaged to think about the issue and see if they
have a compromise to suggest.
David

On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 5:24 PM G. M.-S.  wrote:

>
> Hi all.
>
> I would like to ask for a moratorium of at least 1 month on this
> discussion, as it is leading nowhere.  As a corollary, no changes on
> anything related to it for the time being.
>
> I would also like to ask if anybody could enforce this moratorium.
>
> And in addition I would like to take the occasion to thank everybody
> involved in SageMath, which is a wonderful project.
>
> Repeating an evidence, all of you are important.
>
> Best,
>
> Guillermo
>
> On Tue, 30 May 2023 at 21:59, G. M.-S.  wrote:
>
>>
>> Dima and Matthias,
>>
>> I completely agree with Nils.
>>
>> Could you (both of you) take a short vacation from SageMath, please?
>>
>> More globally, I propose to stop this discussion completely for a few
>> days.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Guillermo
>>
>> On Tue, 30 May 2023 at 21:14, Nils Bruin  wrote:
>>
>>> @dima, @matthias : this public forum is not an appropriate venue to
>>> discuss personal disagreements. From what you both write I get the
>>> impression you actually have a lot of common ground and only a few
>>> differences in opinion, but that personalities and discussion styles
>>> exaggerate the disagreements. I hope a moderator steps in to warn you about
>>> code of conduct and making discussions personal. In the mean time, stepping
>>> back and let things cool down is probably the better thing to do, since I
>>> don't see a positive outcome from continuing your current back-and-forth,
>>> and it's toxic for other people following the thread to be confronted by
>>> such discord between respected members of the community.
>>>
>>
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

[G. M.-S.]

Hi all.

I would like to ask for a moratorium of at least 1 month on this
discussion, as it is leading nowhere.  As a corollary, no changes on
anything related to it for the time being.

I would also like to ask if anybody could enforce this moratorium.

And in addition I would like to take the occasion to thank everybody
involved in SageMath, which is a wonderful project.

Repeating an evidence, all of you are important.

Best,

Guillermo

On Tue, 30 May 2023 at 21:59, G. M.-S.  wrote:

>
> Dima and Matthias,
>
> I completely agree with Nils.
>
> Could you (both of you) take a short vacation from SageMath, please?
>
> More globally, I propose to stop this discussion completely for a few days.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Guillermo
>
> On Tue, 30 May 2023 at 21:14, Nils Bruin  wrote:
>
>> @dima, @matthias : this public forum is not an appropriate venue to
>> discuss personal disagreements. From what you both write I get the
>> impression you actually have a lot of common ground and only a few
>> differences in opinion, but that personalities and discussion styles
>> exaggerate the disagreements. I hope a moderator steps in to warn you about
>> code of conduct and making discussions personal. In the mean time, stepping
>> back and let things cool down is probably the better thing to do, since I
>> don't see a positive outcome from continuing your current back-and-forth,
>> and it's toxic for other people following the thread to be confronted by
>> such discord between respected members of the community.
>>
>

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[sage-devel] Re: Ideals in LaurentPolynomialRing

[enriqu...@gmail.com]

I tried to compute associated_primes and it works, maybe it is related to 
the bug.

El miércoles, 31 de mayo de 2023 a las 22:20:43 UTC+2, enriqu...@gmail.com 
escribió:

> I guess it can be possible to get a smaller example and it may be possible 
> that this code has other problems. My goal is to compute the Fitting ideals 
> of the "abelian" Alexander matrix of a finitely presented group. If you 
> execute and hold the two last paragraphs, for me the execution time of the 
> first of those paragraphs is quite fast while the last one takes really 
> long (I have no patience to say how long if it ends).
> I try to provide you a shorter code starting directly with the matrix 
> (print out the list of coefficients and recreate it) but in that case both 
> codes were fast.
> So maybe the problem is not on Laurent polynomials but I still share it 
> just in case.
> Thanks, Enrique.
>
> El miércoles, 31 de mayo de 2023 a las 15:24:46 UTC+2, Kiran Kedlaya 
> escribió:
>
>> I wrote that code into the Sage library and it is supposed to be doing 
>> exactly what you proposed (clear denominators and do the computation in the 
>> polynomial ring). It is possible the regression was triggered by an update 
>> to Singular; it would indeed be helpful to identify a minimal example of 
>> the problem and then post it to a ticket.
>>
>> I believe there are also some upstream bugs with minimal associated 
>> primes, e.g., https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/29671.
>>
>> Kiran
>>
>> On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 8:53:59 PM UTC-7 Travis Scrimshaw wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Enrique,
>>>I am having a bit of trouble understanding exactly what computations 
>>> are slow and fast from your description. As Nils said, can you give us some 
>>> explicit code (with some comments about which parts are slow)?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Travis
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:28:39 AM UTC+9 Nils Bruin wrote:
>>>
 Dear Enrique,

 From what you write I get the impression you may be talking about a 
 regression in performance relative to earlier versions of sage. If you 
 want 
 to make an actionable item out of this, you'll probably have to file a 
 ticket with explicit code on it that can be profiled; preferably with an 
 indication why you think the performance could be significantly improved. 
 That doesn't guarantee someone will work on it but it at least gives them 
 a 
 place to start if they want to, including you yourself! You could file it 
 as an "enhancement" or even as a "bug" if you can convincingly show it's a 
 regression. In the latter case you would probably end up identifying a 
 version in which performance was significantly better. A git diff on some 
 of the relevant files could then perhaps very quickly show what's 
 happening.



 On Monday, 29 May 2023 at 09:07:07 UTC-7 enriqu...@gmail.com wrote:

> Some time ago I had some computations on ideals in Laurent polynomial 
> rings, namely looking for minimal associated primes. Basically, I 
> converted 
> any generator into a polynomial, study the ideal in the polynomial ring, 
> and forget the prime ideals containing monomials. From some time ago, it 
> is 
> much easier since it can be done directly in the ring of Laurent 
> polynomials. 
> Yesterday these computations on an ideal with 80 generators were 
> really slow, but for some reason I checked that if the generators were 
> converted to elements in the associated polynomial ring, and then the 
> ideal 
> in the Laurent polynomial ring is constructed, then those computations 
> were 
> solved really fast. 
> I checked the code but I was not able to isolate the reason. Best, 
> Enrique.
>


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Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 7:33 PM Matthias Koeppe
 wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 11:00:58 AM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>
> On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 6:23 PM Matthias Koeppe
>  wrote:
> > As service for those who are missing the references: [...]
> >
> > - 5-year plan (appeared in 
> > https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/sVeu16vaEqo/m/D4pewORzAQAJ and 
> > previously in 
> > https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/35404#issuecomment-1505048255) = 
> > refers to a practice of the Soviet union introduced by Stalin and later by 
> > other countries in the Eastern Bloc. The first Soviet 5-year plan led to 
> > millions of deaths by famine. This reference is particularly offensive 
> > because both Dima and I grew up in the Eastern Bloc.
>
> Offensive? You seem to find this offensive now, but making similar is
> spirit remarks about my alledged lack of knowledge of English,
> or me being deeply Soviet in my mind, or I f**king don't know what, as in
> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/32532#issuecomment-1418146524
> is OK for you?
> I quote:
>
> > Ah, this is a common confusion. gcc is a standard package - in this case 
> > the word is spelled "standard" but it's pronounced "base".
> > I think this complicated situation is due to the 1918 spelling reform.
>
> (Remark: there was a spelling reform of Russian 1918 in USSR, cf. wikipedia)
>
> By the way, it's from https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/32532
>
>
> I'm sorry to hear that you were offended by that, I had no idea. It 
> definitely was not my intention.

The merit of the joke did not matter, what mattered was replacing  a
technical discussion by a joke in
https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/32532 - that was what I found offensive.
And this sort of pattern repeated with minor variations (with jokes
often replaced by various bogus arguments) in a range of other
tickets, issues and PRs - no wonder I got fed up with it, eventually.



> To the contrary, I was referring to my (limited) knowledge of the Russian 
> language and its development as a reminder of our friendly in-person 
> interactions when you visited me in Berkeley and Davis --- which now seems 
> ages ago.
>
> I'll now explain the joke:
> - "base" referred to the special status of some "standard" packages as in 
> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/blob/develop/build/make/Makefile.in#L256 and 
> some loose ends in the source code related to that, 
> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/blob/develop/build/sage_bootstrap/package.py#L327
> - the 1918 spelling reform of Russian consolidated some vowels, rendering 
> some entirely unrelated words to be spelt the same (I'm not sure whether also 
> pronounced the same)
> - the phrase "the word is spelt '...' but it's pronounced '(something 
> obviously unrelated)" is a reference to a popular Monty Python sketch that 
> involves a character named Raymond Luxury-Yacht whose name is pronounced 
> quite unrelated to this spelling.
>
>
> --
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> "sage-devel" group.
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> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/43165a7b-6687-42c2-a914-051ee93e45f6n%40googlegroups.com.

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[sage-devel] Re: Ideals in LaurentPolynomialRing

[enriqu...@gmail.com]

I guess it can be possible to get a smaller example and it may be possible 
that this code has other problems. My goal is to compute the Fitting ideals 
of the "abelian" Alexander matrix of a finitely presented group. If you 
execute and hold the two last paragraphs, for me the execution time of the 
first of those paragraphs is quite fast while the last one takes really 
long (I have no patience to say how long if it ends).
I try to provide you a shorter code starting directly with the matrix 
(print out the list of coefficients and recreate it) but in that case both 
codes were fast.
So maybe the problem is not on Laurent polynomials but I still share it 
just in case.
Thanks, Enrique.

El miércoles, 31 de mayo de 2023 a las 15:24:46 UTC+2, Kiran Kedlaya 
escribió:

> I wrote that code into the Sage library and it is supposed to be doing 
> exactly what you proposed (clear denominators and do the computation in the 
> polynomial ring). It is possible the regression was triggered by an update 
> to Singular; it would indeed be helpful to identify a minimal example of 
> the problem and then post it to a ticket.
>
> I believe there are also some upstream bugs with minimal associated 
> primes, e.g., https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/29671.
>
> Kiran
>
> On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 8:53:59 PM UTC-7 Travis Scrimshaw wrote:
>
>> Dear Enrique,
>>I am having a bit of trouble understanding exactly what computations 
>> are slow and fast from your description. As Nils said, can you give us some 
>> explicit code (with some comments about which parts are slow)?
>>
>> Best,
>> Travis
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:28:39 AM UTC+9 Nils Bruin wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Enrique,
>>>
>>> From what you write I get the impression you may be talking about a 
>>> regression in performance relative to earlier versions of sage. If you want 
>>> to make an actionable item out of this, you'll probably have to file a 
>>> ticket with explicit code on it that can be profiled; preferably with an 
>>> indication why you think the performance could be significantly improved. 
>>> That doesn't guarantee someone will work on it but it at least gives them a 
>>> place to start if they want to, including you yourself! You could file it 
>>> as an "enhancement" or even as a "bug" if you can convincingly show it's a 
>>> regression. In the latter case you would probably end up identifying a 
>>> version in which performance was significantly better. A git diff on some 
>>> of the relevant files could then perhaps very quickly show what's happening.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, 29 May 2023 at 09:07:07 UTC-7 enriqu...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Some time ago I had some computations on ideals in Laurent polynomial 
 rings, namely looking for minimal associated primes. Basically, I 
 converted 
 any generator into a polynomial, study the ideal in the polynomial ring, 
 and forget the prime ideals containing monomials. From some time ago, it 
 is 
 much easier since it can be done directly in the ring of Laurent 
 polynomials. 
 Yesterday these computations on an ideal with 80 generators were really 
 slow, but for some reason I checked that if the generators were converted 
 to elements in the associated polynomial ring, and then the ideal in the 
 Laurent polynomial ring is constructed, then those computations were 
 solved 
 really fast. 
 I checked the code but I was not able to isolate the reason. Best, 
 Enrique.

>>>

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# Return a ring of Laurent polynomials together with an ideal,
# the images of the generators of the group in the abelianization
# and the abelianization itself. The group algebra of the group
# is the quotient of the ring by the ideal
def abelianization(G):
from sage.groups.finitely_presented import wrap_FpGroup
hom_libgap_ab =  libgap(G).MaximalAbelianQuotient()
ab_libgap = hom_libgap_ab.Range()
hom_ab_fp = ab_libgap.IsomorphismFpGroup()
ab0 = hom_ab_fp.Range()
hom_sim = ab0.IsomorphismSimplifiedFpGroup()
ab = wrap_FpGroup(hom_sim.Range())
R = LaurentPolynomialRing(QQ, ab.gens())
ideal = []
for a in ab.relations():
a_T = a.Tietze()
a_S = Set(a_T)
if a_S.cardinality() == 1:
j = a_T[0]
m = len(a_T)
ideal.append(R.gen(j - 1) ** m - 1)
images = []
for f in G.gens():
f0 = hom_libgap_ab.Image(f)
f1 = hom_ab_fp.Image(f0)
f2 = hom_sim.Image(f1)
L = f2.UnderlyingElement().LetterRepAssocWord()
p = R.one()
for a in L:
if a > 0:
   

Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

[Matthias Koeppe]

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 11:00:58 AM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik wrote:

On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 6:23 PM Matthias Koeppe 
 wrote: 
> As service for those who are missing the references: [...]
>
> - 5-year plan (appeared in 
https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/sVeu16vaEqo/m/D4pewORzAQAJ and 
previously in 
https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/35404#issuecomment-1505048255) = 
refers to a practice of the Soviet union introduced by Stalin and later by 
other countries in the Eastern Bloc. The first Soviet 5-year plan led to 
millions of deaths by famine. This reference is particularly offensive 
because both Dima and I grew up in the Eastern Bloc. 

Offensive? You seem to find this offensive now, but making similar is 
spirit remarks about my alledged lack of knowledge of English, 
or me being deeply Soviet in my mind, or I f**king don't know what, as in 
https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/32532#issuecomment-1418146524 
is OK for you? 
I quote: 

> Ah, this is a common confusion. gcc is a standard package - in this case 
the word is spelled "standard" but it's pronounced "base". 
> I think this complicated situation is due to the 1918 spelling reform. 

(Remark: there was a spelling reform of Russian 1918 in USSR, cf. 
wikipedia) 

By the way, it's from https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/32532 


I'm sorry to hear that you were offended by that, I had no idea. It 
definitely was not my intention.
To the contrary, I was referring to my (limited) knowledge of the Russian 
language and its development as a reminder of our friendly in-person 
interactions when you visited me in Berkeley and Davis --- which now seems 
ages ago.

I'll now explain the joke: 
- "base" referred to the special status of some "standard" packages as 
in https://github.com/sagemath/sage/blob/develop/build/make/Makefile.in#L256 
and some loose ends in the source code related to 
that, 
https://github.com/sagemath/sage/blob/develop/build/sage_bootstrap/package.py#L327
- the 1918 spelling reform of Russian consolidated some vowels, rendering 
some entirely unrelated words to be spelt the same (I'm not sure whether 
also pronounced the same)
- the phrase "the word is spelt '...' but it's pronounced '(something 
obviously unrelated)" is a reference to a popular Monty Python sketch that 
involves a character named Raymond Luxury-Yacht whose name is pronounced 
quite unrelated to this spelling.


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Re: [sage-devel] Re: ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

[John H Palmieri]

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 12:59:54 PM UTC-7 G. M.-S. wrote:


Dima and Matthias,

I completely agree with Nils.

Could you (both of you) take a short vacation from SageMath, please?

More globally, I propose to stop this discussion completely for a few days.


+100

It's time for this discussion to stop.

 

Thanks in advance.

Guillermo

On Tue, 30 May 2023 at 21:14, Nils Bruin  wrote:

@dima, @matthias : this public forum is not an appropriate venue to discuss 
personal disagreements. From what you both write I get the impression you 
actually have a lot of common ground and only a few differences in opinion, 
but that personalities and discussion styles exaggerate the disagreements. 
I hope a moderator steps in to warn you about code of conduct and making 
discussions personal. In the mean time, stepping back and let things cool 
down is probably the better thing to do, since I don't see a positive 
outcome from continuing your current back-and-forth, and it's toxic for 
other people following the thread to be confronted by such discord between 
respected members of the community.

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.

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Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 6:23 PM Matthias Koeppe
 wrote:
>
> As service for those who are missing the references:
>
> - BFDL = Benevolent Dictator for Life, which was used as the humorous title 
> expressing the Python's community's trust in Guido van Rossum's leadership in 
> Python development. Dima's use of the phrase "(not so B)FDL" insinuates that 
> my work on Sage is not done with good intentions.

Benevolent also means  "kind".

>
> - vote-derailer - repeats Dima's accusation in 
> https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/sVeu16vaEqo/m/gUr4lhZkAQAJ
>
> - 5-year plan (appeared in 
> https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/sVeu16vaEqo/m/D4pewORzAQAJ and 
> previously in 
> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/35404#issuecomment-1505048255) = refers 
> to a practice of the Soviet union introduced by Stalin and later by other 
> countries in the Eastern Bloc. The first Soviet 5-year plan led to millions 
> of deaths by famine. This reference is particularly offensive because both 
> Dima and I grew up in the Eastern Bloc.

Offensive? You seem to find this offensive now, but making similar is
spirit remarks about my alledged lack of knowledge of English,
or me being deeply Soviet in my mind, or I f**king don't know what,  as in
https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/32532#issuecomment-1418146524
is OK for you?
I quote:

> Ah, this is a common confusion. gcc is a standard package - in this case the 
> word is spelled "standard" but it's pronounced "base".
> I think this complicated situation is due to the 1918 spelling reform.

(Remark: there was a spelling reform of Russian 1918 in USSR, cf. wikipedia)

By the way, it's from https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/32532 -
another nice example of Matthias not bothering to reply, just putting
'-1'
as his verdict.
Another example of him abusing the consensus idea of Sage developement
(it only works as long as everybody makes an effort to see
the other p.o.v. - otherwise it's a sure way to nowhere).


Dima



>
> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/blob/develop/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
>
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 3:20:56 AM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 31 May 2023, 08:12 Kwankyu Lee,  wrote:
>>>
>>> I think the voting should be about the policy about when to drop old python 
>>> from sage support. There should be two candidates
>>>
>>> Candidate T: Tobias' proposal to adopt NEP 29. Tobias may summarize the 
>>> content of NEP 29.
>>> Candidate M: Matthias' current practice. But this practice should be 
>>> formulated as clearly as NEP 29.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I think this gives in to vote de-railers.
>> Besides, the 2nd option is just some ad hoc hogwash. Or do you propose to 
>> vote on appointing Matthias a (not so B)DFL ?
>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
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>
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Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

[Matthias Koeppe]

As service for those who are missing the references:

- BFDL = Benevolent Dictator for Life, which was used as the humorous title 
expressing the Python's community's trust in Guido van Rossum's leadership 
in Python development. Dima's use of the phrase "(not so B)FDL" insinuates 
that my work on Sage is not done with good intentions.

- vote-derailer - repeats Dima's accusation 
in https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/sVeu16vaEqo/m/gUr4lhZkAQAJ

- 5-year plan (appeared in 
https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/sVeu16vaEqo/m/D4pewORzAQAJ and 
previously 
in https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/35404#issuecomment-1505048255) = 
refers to a practice of the Soviet union introduced by Stalin and later by 
other countries in the Eastern Bloc. The first Soviet 5-year plan led to 
millions of deaths by famine. This reference is particularly offensive 
because both Dima and I grew up in the Eastern Bloc.

https://github.com/sagemath/sage/blob/develop/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 3:20:56 AM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, 31 May 2023, 08:12 Kwankyu Lee,  wrote:
>
>> I think the voting should be about the policy about when to drop old 
>> python from sage support. There should be two candidates
>>
>> Candidate T: Tobias' proposal to adopt NEP 29. Tobias may summarize the 
>> content of NEP 29.
>> Candidate M: Matthias' current practice. But this practice should be 
>> formulated as clearly as NEP 29.
>>
>>
>>
> I think this gives in to vote de-railers.
> Besides, the 2nd option is just some ad hoc hogwash. Or do you propose to 
> vote on appointing Matthias a (not so B)DFL ?
>
>
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>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/899d3b45-0c26-42b4-873a-c8533b473a4fn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

[kcrisman]

Anyway, we need you.  Both of you.



+1 

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[sage-devel] Re: Ideals in LaurentPolynomialRing

[Kiran Kedlaya]

I wrote that code into the Sage library and it is supposed to be doing 
exactly what you proposed (clear denominators and do the computation in the 
polynomial ring). It is possible the regression was triggered by an update 
to Singular; it would indeed be helpful to identify a minimal example of 
the problem and then post it to a ticket.

I believe there are also some upstream bugs with minimal associated primes, 
e.g., https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/29671.

Kiran

On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 8:53:59 PM UTC-7 Travis Scrimshaw wrote:

> Dear Enrique,
>I am having a bit of trouble understanding exactly what computations 
> are slow and fast from your description. As Nils said, can you give us some 
> explicit code (with some comments about which parts are slow)?
>
> Best,
> Travis
>
> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:28:39 AM UTC+9 Nils Bruin wrote:
>
>> Dear Enrique,
>>
>> From what you write I get the impression you may be talking about a 
>> regression in performance relative to earlier versions of sage. If you want 
>> to make an actionable item out of this, you'll probably have to file a 
>> ticket with explicit code on it that can be profiled; preferably with an 
>> indication why you think the performance could be significantly improved. 
>> That doesn't guarantee someone will work on it but it at least gives them a 
>> place to start if they want to, including you yourself! You could file it 
>> as an "enhancement" or even as a "bug" if you can convincingly show it's a 
>> regression. In the latter case you would probably end up identifying a 
>> version in which performance was significantly better. A git diff on some 
>> of the relevant files could then perhaps very quickly show what's happening.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, 29 May 2023 at 09:07:07 UTC-7 enriqu...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Some time ago I had some computations on ideals in Laurent polynomial 
>>> rings, namely looking for minimal associated primes. Basically, I converted 
>>> any generator into a polynomial, study the ideal in the polynomial ring, 
>>> and forget the prime ideals containing monomials. From some time ago, it is 
>>> much easier since it can be done directly in the ring of Laurent 
>>> polynomials. 
>>> Yesterday these computations on an ideal with 80 generators were really 
>>> slow, but for some reason I checked that if the generators were converted 
>>> to elements in the associated polynomial ring, and then the ideal in the 
>>> Laurent polynomial ring is constructed, then those computations were solved 
>>> really fast. 
>>> I checked the code but I was not able to isolate the reason. Best, 
>>> Enrique.
>>>
>>

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Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

[Kwankyu Lee]

 

Besides, the 2nd option is just some ad hoc hogwash. Or do you propose to 
vote on appointing Matthias a (not so B)DFL ?


No. I suggest him to formulate the practice as an objective checklist, so 
that voters know that rejecting the 1st option would not mean appointing 
DFL.

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Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Wed, 31 May 2023, 08:12 Kwankyu Lee,  wrote:

> I think the voting should be about the policy about when to drop old
> python from sage support. There should be two candidates
>
> Candidate T: Tobias' proposal to adopt NEP 29. Tobias may summarize the
> content of NEP 29.
> Candidate M: Matthias' current practice. But this practice should be
> formulated as clearly as NEP 29.
>
>
>
I think this gives in to vote de-railers.
Besides, the 2nd option is just some ad hoc hogwash. Or do you propose to
vote on appointing Matthias a (not so B)DFL ?


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> 
> .
>

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Re: [sage-devel] ping - please cast you vote: VOTE: Follow NEP 29: Recommended Python version

[Kwankyu Lee]

I think the voting should be about the policy about when to drop old python 
from sage support. There should be two candidates

Candidate T: Tobias' proposal to adopt NEP 29. Tobias may summarize the 
content of NEP 29.
Candidate M: Matthias' current practice. But this practice should be 
formulated as clearly as NEP 29.



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