Re: [sage-devel] Does anyone use SAGE64?

[Jeroen Demeyer]

On 2017-09-04 23:37, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote:

removing it would make a 64-bit Solaris port  more work.


I disagree here. It is very likely that fixes are needed anyway to port 
Sage to 64-bit Solaris. So if things need to be fixed, we should think 
of the best way to fix things. The best way is certainly not to edit 
every single spkg-install file with explicit SAGE64 support. We should 
think of a simpler solution, which could be for example:

- compile our own GCC which does the right thing
- set environment variables like CFLAGS once for the whole build system

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Re: [sage-devel] Does anyone use SAGE64?

[Jeroen Demeyer]

On 2017-09-04 19:34, Erik Bray wrote:

+1 I think if this functionality is needed for Solaris (or any other
platform) it should be moved into configure.ac, and the explicit
environment variables done away with.


Totally agreed!

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Re: [sage-devel] Does anyone use SAGE64?

[Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)]

On 4 September 2017 at 18:34, Erik Bray  wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 6:08 PM, Jean-Pierre Flori 
> wrote:
> +1 I think if this functionality is needed for Solaris (or any other
> platform) it should be moved into configure.ac, and the explicit
> environment variables done away with.
>
>
But the variable does more than add -m64.
I fail to see what harm it is doing leaving it there, but removing it would
make a 64-bit Solaris port  more work. A lot of time was put into adding
the code in various files to accept that variable.

What is it going to gain by removing it? Make the download a few hundred
bytes smaller?

Dave

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Re: [sage-devel] Does anyone use SAGE64?

[Erik Bray]

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 6:08 PM, Jean-Pierre Flori  wrote:
>
>
> On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 6:06:35 PM UTC+2, Jean-Pierre Flori wrote:
>>
>> I would also say that passing -m64 is needed on Solaris even when the
>> kernel is 64bits, and I think the situation is the same on linux running on
>> sparc.
>> On these platforms default versions of gcc produces 32 bits stuff by
>> default, unless you begin compiling your own gcc and convince it to do
>> something else.
>
> I'm not sure that this is a sufficient reason to keep the SAGE64 semi broken
> mess in the install scripts though.
> I would even consider it a good idea to remove it now and reintroduce it
> later if someone really needs such support.
> In btw playing with C*FLAGS should do the trick.

+1 I think if this functionality is needed for Solaris (or any other
platform) it should be moved into configure.ac, and the explicit
environment variables done away with.

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Re: [sage-devel] Does anyone use SAGE64?

[Jean-Pierre Flori]

On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 6:06:35 PM UTC+2, Jean-Pierre Flori wrote:
>
> I would also say that passing -m64 is needed on Solaris even when the 
> kernel is 64bits, and I think the situation is the same on linux running on 
> sparc.
> On these platforms default versions of gcc produces 32 bits stuff by 
> default, unless you begin compiling your own gcc and convince it to do 
> something else.
>
I'm not sure that this is a sufficient reason to keep the SAGE64 semi 
broken mess in the install scripts though.
I would even consider it a good idea to remove it now and reintroduce it 
later if someone really needs such support.
In btw playing with C*FLAGS should do the trick. 

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Re: [sage-devel] Does anyone use SAGE64?

[Jean-Pierre Flori]

I would also say that passing -m64 is needed on Solaris even when the 
kernel is 64bits, and I think the situation is the same on linux running on 
sparc.
On these platforms default versions of gcc produces 32 bits stuff by 
default, unless you begin compiling your own gcc and convince it to do 
something else.

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Re: [sage-devel] Does anyone use SAGE64?

[Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)]

On 2 September 2017 at 21:59, John H Palmieri 
wrote:

>
> I don't know if Sage works on Solaris right now, but if it does, does it
> build gcc (as it does on OS X), or does it use a preexisting compiler?
>

I would be surprised if Sage did build on Solaris now, as I would be
extreamly surprised if something has broken it since I last built it. But
Sage certainly did build gcc.

>
>
> I believe SAGE64 does more than just add the -m64 flag in a couple of
>> places, so I would propose it is not removed, as it would effectively kit
>> any attempt to build a 64-bit Solaris version of Sage.
>>
>
>
> I think it mainly adds -m64, but this is not hard to investigate.
>
>   John
>

It *mainly* does. But I'm 99% sure it does other things too.

BTW, I was until recently giving serious consideration to doing a maths
degree at the Open University.

http://www.open.ac.uk/courses/qualifications/q31

The only problem is since I got my Ph.D. more than 16 years ago, none of my
academic qualifications count for anything, and so I need to start with
"Discovering Mathematics", which the OU describe as:

"This key introductory OU level 1 module provides a gentle start to the
study of mathematics. It will help you to integrate mathematical ideas into
your everyday thinking and build your confidence in using and learning
mathematics. You’ll cover statistical, graphical, algebraic, trigonometric
and numerical concepts and techniques, and be introduced to mathematical
modelling. Formal calculus is not included and you are not expected to have
any previous knowledge of algebra. The skills introduced will be ideal if
you plan to study more mathematics modules, such as *Essential mathematics
1* (MST124). It is also suitable for users of mathematics in other areas,
such as computing, science, technology, social science, humanities,
business and education."

I object to paying to learn such noddy stuff. I've been in touch with the
OU, but it seems a BSc, MSc and PhD all in science/engineering are worth
nothing, so can not attract any credits, so save me any money. The OU has
zero flexibility.

Dave.

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Re: [sage-devel] Does anyone use SAGE64?

[John H Palmieri]

On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 11:54:00 AM UTC-7, Dr. David Kirkby 
(Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote:
>
> On 2 September 2017 at 01:41, John H Palmieri  > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> Can you clarify? You say that the are necessary on Solaris, but is that 
>> recent information? It is possible that newer versions of Sage and/or 
>> Solaris might make SAGE64 unnecessary.
>>
>> Regards,
>>   John
>>
>
> Hi John, 
>
> https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E18659_01/html/821-1384/gexcx.html
>
> says that the -m64 flag would be needed to create a 64-bit executable. It 
> also says -m32 it required to create 32-bit executable. It is not too clear 
> on the default, but I rather suspect it is still 32-bit. The latest version 
> is Solaris 11.3. I'm running Solaris 11, but not 11.3. 
>

I don't know if Sage works on Solaris right now, but if it does, does it 
build gcc (as it does on OS X), or does it use a preexisting compiler?
 

>
> I believe SAGE64 does more than just add the -m64 flag in a couple of 
> places, so I would propose it is not removed, as it would effectively kit 
> any attempt to build a 64-bit Solaris version of Sage. 
>

I think it mainly adds -m64, but this is not hard to investigate. 

  John

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Re: [sage-devel] Does anyone use SAGE64?

[Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)]

On 2 September 2017 at 01:41, John H Palmieri 
wrote:

>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> Can you clarify? You say that the are necessary on Solaris, but is that
> recent information? It is possible that newer versions of Sage and/or
> Solaris might make SAGE64 unnecessary.
>
> Regards,
>   John
>

Hi John,

https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E18659_01/html/821-1384/gexcx.html

says that the -m64 flag would be needed to create a 64-bit executable. It
also says -m32 it required to create 32-bit executable. It is not too clear
on the default, but I rather suspect it is still 32-bit. The latest version
is Solaris 11.3. I'm running Solaris 11, but not 11.3.

I believe SAGE64 does more than just add the -m64 flag in a couple of
places, so I would propose it is not removed, as it would effectively kit
any attempt to build a 64-bit Solaris version of Sage.

Dave

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Re: [sage-devel] Does anyone use SAGE64?

[Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)]

On 2 Sep 2017 01:41, "John H Palmieri"  wrote:
> Hi Dave,
>
> Can you clarify? You say that the are necessary on Solaris, but is that
recent information? It is possible that newer versions of Sage and/or
Solaris might make SAGE64 unnecessary.
>
> Regards,
>   John

Hi John,

I will look into this.

Dave.

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Re: [sage-devel] Does anyone use SAGE64?

[John H Palmieri]

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 3:47:28 PM UTC-7, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby 
Microwave Ltd) wrote:
>
>
> On 1 Sep 2017 23:21, "John H Palmieri"  
> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone use the environment variables SAGE64 of CFLAG64? At 
> https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/23733, it is suggested that they be 
> deprecated and then removed. Any comments?
> >
> > -- 
> > John
>
> They are necessary if one attempts to build a 64 bit version on Solaris. I 
> think they might be used on some versions of OSX too, but I am not sure 
> about that. 
>
> I would say that they should not be removed.  
>
> I never managed to get a reliable 64 bit version on Solaris, but at one 
> point the 32-bit version passed all the doctests. 
>

Hi Dave,

Can you clarify? You say that the are necessary on Solaris, but is that 
recent information? It is possible that newer versions of Sage and/or 
Solaris might make SAGE64 unnecessary.

Regards,
  John
 

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Re: [sage-devel] Does anyone use SAGE64?

[François Bissey]

> On 2/09/2017, at 11:27, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) 
>  wrote:
> 
> I could have swore that it was used on at least same versions of OSX. I would 
> need to look at the Sage source code, but am in bed using my mobile phone,  
> that will have to wait until the morning.

It could have in the past, but now the default is squarely 64bit.
In fact I think 32bits apps will be disabled completely at some point
in the near future.

François

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Re: [sage-devel] Does anyone use SAGE64?

[Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)]

On 1 Sep 2017 23:54, "François Bissey"  wrote:
>
>
> > On 2/09/2017, at 10:47, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) <
drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 1 Sep 2017 23:21, "John H Palmieri"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone use the environment variables SAGE64 of CFLAG64? At
https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/23733, it is suggested that they be
deprecated and then removed. Any comments?
> > >
> > > --
> > > John
> >
> > They are necessary if one attempts to build a 64 bit version on
Solaris. I think they might be used on some versions of OSX too, but I am
not sure about that.
> >
> > I would say that they should not be removed.
> >
> > I never managed to get a reliable 64 bit version on Solaris, but at one
point the 32-bit version passed all the doctests.
> >
>
> Not needed on OS X. Do you still do stuff on solaris?
> Do you need it for solaris 64 because the default is to compile 32bits?
>
> François

I still run Solaris as my main OS. I have not done any Sage development for
some time,  but do intend restarting.

Yes, the default is to build 32 bits, even on a 64-bit OS.

I could have swore that it was used on at least same versions of OSX. I
would need to look at the Sage source code, but am in bed using my mobile
phone,  that will have to wait until the morning.

Dave.

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Re: [sage-devel] Does anyone use SAGE64?

[François Bissey]

> On 2/09/2017, at 10:47, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 1 Sep 2017 23:21, "John H Palmieri"  wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone use the environment variables SAGE64 of CFLAG64? At 
> > https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/23733, it is suggested that they be 
> > deprecated and then removed. Any comments?
> >
> > -- 
> > John
> 
> They are necessary if one attempts to build a 64 bit version on Solaris. I 
> think they might be used on some versions of OSX too, but I am not sure about 
> that.
> 
> I would say that they should not be removed. 
> 
> I never managed to get a reliable 64 bit version on Solaris, but at one point 
> the 32-bit version passed all the doctests.
> 

Not needed on OS X. Do you still do stuff on solaris?
Do you need it for solaris 64 because the default is to compile 32bits?

François

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Re: [sage-devel] Does anyone use SAGE64?

[Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)]

On 1 Sep 2017 23:21, "John H Palmieri"  wrote:
>
> Does anyone use the environment variables SAGE64 of CFLAG64? At
https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/23733, it is suggested that they be
deprecated and then removed. Any comments?
>
> --
> John

They are necessary if one attempts to build a 64 bit version on Solaris. I
think they might be used on some versions of OSX too, but I am not sure
about that.

I would say that they should not be removed.

I never managed to get a reliable 64 bit version on Solaris, but at one
point the 32-bit version passed all the doctests.

Dave.

Dave.

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[sage-devel] Does anyone use SAGE64?

[John H Palmieri]

Does anyone use the environment variables SAGE64 of CFLAG64? At 
https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/23733, it is suggested that they be 
deprecated and then removed. Any comments?

-- 
John

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