RE: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
Re: drcsaid's comment about burning things to DVD- I think that you can do it, as long as you don't make money on it. But don't take my word for it. I'm just a scientist, and sometimes they burn us at the stake for bothering to think... Keith Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I remember the series. I remember the show with Basset on it too. Hawk lectured her family at the end about staying together or something. It was good, but a little heavy on the mysticism thing for my tastes. I think Hawk was such a good guest character they had a hard time making a fully developed show around him. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of drcsaid Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 17:24 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? I'm glad that I taped those Hawk episodes on Spencer and A Man Called Hawk series...Wesley, Wendall Pirece, Angela Basset, Samuel Jackson, Eric LaSalle etc were i the cut on those series... I'm going to burn them to DVD...hey an I write that here? I don't want this site shut down too! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LMAO...I wasn't goiong to say that...but you have a point...On top of that, if anyone can get my mom to say Boy is he good lookin', He has got to be impressive...Mom has never uttered that about anyone on TV except Avery Brooks... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with that. He'd lost the fire after his wife's death. I'm just saying I wish he'd started out as Captain Sisko of whatever that starship was he was on. But hey, like you say, he grew like hell in what is probably my favorite Trek series. Oh course, ol' boy didn't really shine until he shaved that head and grew that beard, and became Hawk in the 24th Century! -- Original message -- Also remember that Sisko was Highly Pissed off at the world when he lost his wife...Realistically, I think that was the reason that, if he was passed over for the promotion, was...From what I gather, It seemed as if Sisko was on his way out of Starfleet as I read it...Hence, his posting at DS9...Very plausible...And I thought he did a helluva job turning himself around in one episode... Keith Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually I was going back to the premiere, where Sisko was First Officer of his ship. I felt his character should have been a captain of that starship, not the XO. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Astromancer Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 19:20 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? On one point, I have to say militarily was incorrect...Sisko was a commander, but of an outpost, not a ship, which I am assuming the captain's rank was reserved for ship's commanders...But I do see your point... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Your point is dead-on, which is what I meant. Star Trek was the beacon, starting slowly (a Black woman, no Black men in major roles), then grew with Geordi (whose disability definitely raised eyebrows among Blacks) and Worf, and reaching fruition in Sisko. The series matured in its treatment of people of color (though why Sisko was the only lead character in all the shows that started out as a commander instead of a captain was puzzling). That's what I meant about Enterprise going backwards. They literally regressed over three decades and relegated the Black and Asian characters to the same levels of background noise that unfortunately mostly defined Uhura and Sulu. And speaking of Sulu, MAJOR crime to my mind that George Takei, who has great screen presence, was never able to shine in Trek as he deserved. I'd have loved to have seen a movie based on his Excelsior. And you are so correct in saying that you hate the treatment of people of color on Galactica more now that you like it. I'm the same way. I hated the show when it started, wrote a scathing review in our group, then grew to love it. But then I look up and see the Asian girl being the love interest for two different white dudes, and ditto for the Black girl (Moore hints to a developing love triangle between the Sister, Billy, and Apollo). I see no Brothers playing anything but guards and muscle, as you say. And i just have to wonder, is it intentional or just more of the same white ignorance? Moore is a white man, and maybe bringing women of color on to be love interests for white men is diversity to him. Maybe he hasn't noticed that on several occassions he's used BBM (Big Black Men) as prisoners, and that they're even stereotypically dark-skinned and bald. Maybe he just doesn't get it, but I know it bothers me a great deal. Like I said, when the entire Pegasus command structure turns out white, and two bald brothers show up
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
I remember the series. I remember the show with Basset on it too. Hawk lectured her family at the end about staying together or something. It was good, but a little heavy on the mysticism thing for my tastes. I think Hawk was such a good guest character they had a hard time making a fully developed show around him. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of drcsaid Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 17:24 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? I'm glad that I taped those Hawk episodes on Spencer and A Man Called Hawk series...Wesley, Wendall Pirece, Angela Basset, Samuel Jackson, Eric LaSalle etc were i the cut on those series... I'm going to burn them to DVD...hey an I write that here? I don't want this site shut down too! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LMAO...I wasn't goiong to say that...but you have a point...On top of that, if anyone can get my mom to say Boy is he good lookin', He has got to be impressive...Mom has never uttered that about anyone on TV except Avery Brooks... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with that. He'd lost the fire after his wife's death. I'm just saying I wish he'd started out as Captain Sisko of whatever that starship was he was on. But hey, like you say, he grew like hell in what is probably my favorite Trek series. Oh course, ol' boy didn't really shine until he shaved that head and grew that beard, and became Hawk in the 24th Century! -- Original message -- Also remember that Sisko was Highly Pissed off at the world when he lost his wife...Realistically, I think that was the reason that, if he was passed over for the promotion, was...From what I gather, It seemed as if Sisko was on his way out of Starfleet as I read it...Hence, his posting at DS9...Very plausible...And I thought he did a helluva job turning himself around in one episode... Keith Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually I was going back to the premiere, where Sisko was First Officer of his ship. I felt his character should have been a captain of that starship, not the XO. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Astromancer Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 19:20 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? On one point, I have to say militarily was incorrect...Sisko was a commander, but of an outpost, not a ship, which I am assuming the captain's rank was reserved for ship's commanders...But I do see your point... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Your point is dead-on, which is what I meant. Star Trek was the beacon, starting slowly (a Black woman, no Black men in major roles), then grew with Geordi (whose disability definitely raised eyebrows among Blacks) and Worf, and reaching fruition in Sisko. The series matured in its treatment of people of color (though why Sisko was the only lead character in all the shows that started out as a commander instead of a captain was puzzling). That's what I meant about Enterprise going backwards. They literally regressed over three decades and relegated the Black and Asian characters to the same levels of background noise that unfortunately mostly defined Uhura and Sulu. And speaking of Sulu, MAJOR crime to my mind that George Takei, who has great screen presence, was never able to shine in Trek as he deserved. I'd have loved to have seen a movie based on his Excelsior. And you are so correct in saying that you hate the treatment of people of color on Galactica more now that you like it. I'm the same way. I hated the show when it started, wrote a scathing review in our group, then grew to love it. But then I look up and see the Asian girl being the love interest for two different white dudes, and ditto for the Black girl (Moore hints to a developing love triangle between the Sister, Billy, and Apollo). I see no Brothers playing anything but guards and muscle, as you say. And i just have to wonder, is it intentional or just more of the same white ignorance? Moore is a white man, and maybe bringing women of color on to be love interests for white men is diversity to him. Maybe he hasn't noticed that on several occassions he's used BBM (Big Black Men) as prisoners, and that they're even stereotypically dark-skinned and bald. Maybe he just doesn't get it, but I know it bothers me a great deal. Like I said, when the entire Pegasus command structure turns out white, and two bald brothers show up as the Admiral's personal guard, I was stunned. I'm hoping season three will somehow address this problem. tetsuwanatom1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, you know, we hold up Trek as the beacon, but it was really just the first. I don't think they really got
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
LMAO...I wasn't goiong to say that...but you have a point...On top of that, if anyone can get my mom to say Boy is he good lookin', He has got to be impressive...Mom has never uttered that about anyone on TV except Avery Brooks... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with that. He'd lost the fire after his wife's death. I'm just saying I wish he'd started out as Captain Sisko of whatever that starship was he was on. But hey, like you say, he grew like hell in what is probably my favorite Trek series. Oh course, ol' boy didn't really shine until he shaved that head and grew that beard, and became Hawk in the 24th Century! -- Original message -- Also remember that Sisko was Highly Pissed off at the world when he lost his wife...Realistically, I think that was the reason that, if he was passed over for the promotion, was...From what I gather, It seemed as if Sisko was on his way out of Starfleet as I read it...Hence, his posting at DS9...Very plausible...And I thought he did a helluva job turning himself around in one episode... Keith Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually I was going back to the premiere, where Sisko was First Officer of his ship. I felt his character should have been a captain of that starship, not the XO. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Astromancer Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 19:20 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? On one point, I have to say militarily was incorrect...Sisko was a commander, but of an outpost, not a ship, which I am assuming the captain's rank was reserved for ship's commanders...But I do see your point... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Your point is dead-on, which is what I meant. Star Trek was the beacon, starting slowly (a Black woman, no Black men in major roles), then grew with Geordi (whose disability definitely raised eyebrows among Blacks) and Worf, and reaching fruition in Sisko. The series matured in its treatment of people of color (though why Sisko was the only lead character in all the shows that started out as a commander instead of a captain was puzzling). That's what I meant about Enterprise going backwards. They literally regressed over three decades and relegated the Black and Asian characters to the same levels of background noise that unfortunately mostly defined Uhura and Sulu. And speaking of Sulu, MAJOR crime to my mind that George Takei, who has great screen presence, was never able to shine in Trek as he deserved. I'd have loved to have seen a movie based on his Excelsior. And you are so correct in saying that you hate the treatment of people of color on Galactica more now that you like it. I'm the same way. I hated the show when it started, wrote a scathing review in our group, then grew to love it. But then I look up and see the Asian girl being the love interest for two different white dudes, and ditto for the Black girl (Moore hints to a developing love triangle between the Sister, Billy, and Apollo). I see no Brothers playing anything but guards and muscle, as you say. And i just have to wonder, is it intentional or just more of the same white ignorance? Moore is a white man, and maybe bringing women of color on to be love interests for white men is diversity to him. Maybe he hasn't noticed that on several occassions he's used BBM (Big Black Men) as prisoners, and that they're even stereotypically dark-skinned and bald. Maybe he just doesn't get it, but I know it bothers me a great deal. Like I said, when the entire Pegasus command structure turns out white, and two bald brothers show up as the Admiral's personal guard, I was stunned. I'm hoping season three will somehow address this problem. tetsuwanatom1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, you know, we hold up Trek as the beacon, but it was really just the first. I don't think they really got it until TNG was deep into its run. Uhura was a hot swingin babe in a miniskirt. TOS did have black cast members playing doctors (!) and scientists (!!!) though. But really, a black dude with space shades? Burton really worked that character into something. And what abt other minorities in TNG? Had the Japanese nurse . . .. Worf, he's Klingon, just the actor is black. Casting Dorn as Worf though did lead to primarily casting black (men) as Klingons most often. Same could be said for Tuvok, though Vulcans are a little more human looking so his color is more in your face. Funny that the lack of black males on BSG bothers me more now than it did at first. That's because I HATED the show at first. Now it's at least tolerable. I like Olmos, Sackhoff has grown on me, and I'm a bit curious to see where their going, even if on occasion they do telegraph their punches. To that end, I'm also kinda hanging around to see if Moore will EVER come right out and say that there is racism in the colonies, as his constant
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
LMAO...I wasn't goiong to say that...but you have a point...On top of that, if anyone can get my mom to say Boy is he good lookin', He has got to be impressive...Mom has never utter that about anyone on TV except Avery Brooks... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I agree with that. He'd lost the fire after his wife's death. I'm just saying I wish he'd started out as Captain Sisko of whatever that starship was he was on. But hey, like you say, he grew like hell in what is probably my favorite Trek series. Oh course, ol' boy didn't really shine until he shaved that head and grew that beard, and became Hawk in the 24th Century! -- Original message -- Also remember that Sisko was Highly Pissed off at the world when he lost his wife...Realistically, I think that was the reason that, if he was passed over for the promotion, was...From what I gather, It seemed as if Sisko was on his way out of Starfleet as I read it...Hence, his posting at DS9...Very plausible...And I thought he did a helluva job turning himself around in one episode... Keith Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually I was going back to the premiere, where Sisko was First Officer of his ship. I felt his character should have been a captain of that starship, not the XO. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Astromancer Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 19:20 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? On one point, I have to say militarily was incorrect...Sisko was a commander, but of an outpost, not a ship, which I am assuming the captain's rank was reserved for ship's commanders...But I do see your point... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Your point is dead-on, which is what I meant. Star Trek was the beacon, starting slowly (a Black woman, no Black men in major roles), then grew with Geordi (whose disability definitely raised eyebrows among Blacks) and Worf, and reaching fruition in Sisko. The series matured in its treatment of people of color (though why Sisko was the only lead character in all the shows that started out as a commander instead of a captain was puzzling). That's what I meant about Enterprise going backwards. They literally regressed over three decades and relegated the Black and Asian characters to the same levels of background noise that unfortunately mostly defined Uhura and Sulu. And speaking of Sulu, MAJOR crime to my mind that George Takei, who has great screen presence, was never able to shine in Trek as he deserved. I'd have loved to have seen a movie based on his Excelsior. And you are so correct in saying that you hate the treatment of people of color on Galactica more now that you like it. I'm the same way. I hated the show when it started, wrote a scathing review in our group, then grew to love it. But then I look up and see the Asian girl being the love interest for two different white dudes, and ditto for the Black girl (Moore hints to a developing love triangle between the Sister, Billy, and Apollo). I see no Brothers playing anything but guards and muscle, as you say. And i just have to wonder, is it intentional or just more of the same white ignorance? Moore is a white man, and maybe bringing women of color on to be love interests for white men is diversity to him. Maybe he hasn't noticed that on several occassions he's used BBM (Big Black Men) as prisoners, and that they're even stereotypically dark-skinned and bald. Maybe he just doesn't get it, but I know it bothers me a great deal. Like I said, when the entire Pegasus command structure turns out white, and two bald brothers show up as the Admiral's personal guard, I was stunned. I'm hoping season three will somehow address this problem. tetsuwanatom1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, you know, we hold up Trek as the beacon, but it was really just the first. I don't think they really got it until TNG was deep into its run. Uhura was a hot swingin babe in a miniskirt. TOS did have black cast members playing doctors (!) and scientists (!!!) though. But really, a black dude with space shades? Burton really worked that character into something. And what abt other minorities in TNG? Had the Japanese nurse . . .. Worf, he's Klingon, just the actor is black. Casting Dorn as Worf though did lead to primarily casting black (men) as Klingons most often. Same could be said for Tuvok, though Vulcans are a little more human looking so his color is more in your face. Funny that the lack of black males on BSG bothers me more now than it did at first. That's because I HATED the show at first. Now it's at least tolerable. I like Olmos, Sackhoff has grown on me, and I'm a bit curious to see where their going, even if on occasion they do telegraph their punches. To that end, I'm also kinda hanging around to see if Moore will EVER come right out and say that there is racism in the colonies, as his constant
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
Yeah, that was all in one ep. I left out the scene where Bester has sent a couple of goons from Psi Corp to take him back. One is a lady who's relentless in her pursuit. At one point, as his powers are escalating, he begs her to leave him alone, but she doesn't--and is subsequently disintegrated in a wave of energy. Shoulda listened! -- Original message -- Man, that was all just in one episode? I need to find a tape of that airing..thanks for the info...! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, are you saying this event from B5 is an example of a positive or negative usage of a Black person in a role? I remember that show, which I loved. The actor was played by the Brother who went on to play Brandy's father on the show Moesha. I think his last name was Racehorse or Ironhorse or something on B5. He was a telepath that had been experimented on by the Psi-Corp, which had the effect of accelerating the evolutionary process all humans would some day undergo. Indeed, as he became one with the Cosmos, his last words were I'll see you in a million years. His lover was the telepath Talia Winters, who later was revealed to be a mole planted on B5 by the Psi-Corp. That was wild, because Talia was actually a nice person, and she spoke of the great love she and the Brother had at one point. I rememer her asking Sheridan if he knew what it was like when two telepaths made love, as they shared each other's pleasure (sounds intense!). Before he evolved, he increased Talia's powers by giving her telekinetic abilities. Later, she was able to stave off Psi Cops with her enhanced shielding power. Indeed, some rebel telepaths told Talia she was the future. Later it was revealed that the whole Talia persona was a fake, created to make her the perfect spy on B5. I always wondered what happened to the powers that persona inherited.Mr. Bester hinted that she'd been killed and dissected for study. Also interesting, Talia was also the love interest of Ivanova (Claudia Black), who once revealed that she thought she loved Talia. There was one show that kinda sorta hinted the two women had slept together, but I believe it was cut as to leave some doubts. -- Original message -- Here's something to reminence about given the subjec matter..if I remember correctly, on Babylon 5 there was the episode with the black guy who was a mutant that was hyper-evolving. He was on the run with white girl, and when he was trapped, I belive he changed one of the security guards to atomized molecules and then [he] the black guy evolved to the point where he bacame one with the univese...correct e --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And to repost yet again, I'm still wondering. On the season-ending show where the Battlestar Pegasus is found, Admiral Caine travels to Galactica. As her Raptor doors open, we see that she's accompanied by an impressive group of officers and security. The first to disembark are two snarling, armed guards, who scan the crowd with suspicion. I was struck that both of these bookends were Black--and bald! Again, maybe in modern times diversity for whites is no longer just about including Blacks as well. After all, Edward Olmos is Mexican, I think the dude who plays Mr. Gata is Latino, and Grace Park (who plays Sharon) is Asian. And the lady who plays the communications officer is Black. So maybe that seems diverse enough for Moore and company. There was one Black man with some screentime, the guard who ultimately helped President Rosalyn and Apollo escape, but Moore says he just wasn't a good enough fit to make a permanent character. Maybe as a 40-ish Black man I'm holding on to old ideas, and finding insult where there is none. But still, I'm honest enough to admit that it bothers me that they can find Black men to play guards and prisoners in the background, but none for some of the more glamorous roles. And i don't like that all the non-white women are put with white dudes. Too reminiscent of all the years when that was the norm on TV. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 15:24 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? i posted about this during Season one of Galactica and did a count of Blacks. I counted about three or four, incuding the comm officer and some nameless pilots (I assume) used in the background. I then found a lot of Blacks existed afterall: on the prison barge! When Apollo was sent over there to quell the riots, the place was lousy with Big Black Man, most of them dark-skinned as hell and bald... -- Original message -- --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, DJ VIBE [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
that it bothers me that they can find Black men to play guards and prisoners in the background, but none for some of the more glamorous roles. And i don't like that all the non-white women are put with white dudes. Too reminiscent of all the years when that was the norm on TV. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 15:24 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? i posted about this during Season one of Galactica and did a count of Blacks. I counted about three or four, incuding the comm officer and some nameless pilots (I assume) used in the background. I then found a lot of Blacks existed afterall: on the prison barge! When Apollo was sent over there to quell the riots, the place was lousy with Big Black Man, most of them dark-skinned as hell and bald... -- Original message -- --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, DJ VIBE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Battlestar Galactica: (New Series) Well, there's a COMMUNICATIONS officer. . . . Apparently all of the other Black people, with the exception of the religious leader, were killed in the bombing of Caprica. Same with Buck Rogers - I don't recall ever seeing a dark face on there, with the exception of the singers with three mouths - guess all the Black folks were killed off in the cataclysm while Buck was traveling through time. It seems that all the Black people live on Gemina (not Jemima, but too damn close) and are zealatous worshipers of the Kobol lords. Besides the communications officer, we've got the security guard who slips the president her meds, a priestess, and the leader from Gemina who was the first to bow before the Pres last episode. Wow, a race of magical negroes. You know Ron means well, but come on. Perhaps we'll have some strong characters when the Pegasus shows up. I think its that sci-fi in general doesn't have very many Black folks in it at all levels - writers, producers, directors, etc. I think that when none of the people who create something look like Wesley Snipes, chances are they will have issues, or at least some difficulty, seeing a Black face in that role - especially when that role has real power and possibilities for sexual attraction. In the new BSG, there's NO real reason why Adama couldn't have been Black, for example, unless the racial politics on Caprica also echo our civilization. In fact, the very concept of the series should lead to more color-blind casting as the Roman Empire, which this civilization is based on (or which perhaps was influenced by *this* civilization?) didn't do ethnic-based slavery. A good example of what the lack of Black folks behind the scenes does is the movie Pleasantville. This was an entire movie about people who lived in a Black and White world. The movie makes the point that the people there weren't alive until COLOR was introduced - yet there were NO Black people in the movie and only a few people of color in the beginning high school sequence in our world. To me, being Black and all, it seems obvious that the most shocking and obvious thing in this movie would have been the introduction of a Black person, or a whole *bunch* of Black people. Imagine finding out about the concept of color and then finding out that not only things can be different colors but PEOPLE as well! But I digress. . . . One of the things the original show *did* do well, IMHO, was show diversity - not just in the casting (having Asian and Black major characters) but the extras as well. Unlike Friends and other TV shows which seem to exist in some mythically White world (no Black or Hispanics in friggin NEW YORK!?!), there were people of color there - yes they were in the background, but there were THERE. Anyway, I've always said we'd be much better off if, instead of begging Whitey for inclusion, we would form companies and produce our own media. If we really want to see Sci-Fi and other media outlets change their views, or lack therof, of Black folk, we need to get up off our collective duff and make them or, if lacking the knowledge and ability to make them, make it a point to support those who are. If films like Sankofa and Rosewood got the support we give films like Scarface and Willie Wonka (I *think* I saw 1 Black person in the film - not counting the Oompa Loompa guy), I don't think this would be an issue. Thoughts? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
Good point, it often goes with the casting director. Though, I'm sure that *if* Moore wanted to bring more men of color on, he could. I get the impression he's very much involved in casting. I think it's like you said, the age-old problem: they just don't get it. DJ Vibe wrote I doubt he gets it unless he is specifically thinking about racial matters - in a sense, the Cylon/Human conflict *can* be seen as a race struggle, but I digress. Getting back to the represantation(s) of Black males (or lack thereof) in BSG, I suspect its a casting director thing - the casting director sends him actor A B and he chooses the one(s) that he thinks best fits the role. When you write characters, you have a picture in your head and unless you're casting with an agenda, you'll most likely match the picture in your head with the actor in front of you. I suspect he pictures white folks in his head when he writes, as that is his life and background. -- Original message -- --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ignorance? Moore is a white man, and maybe bringing women of color on to be love interests for white men is diversity to him. Maybe he hasn't noticed that on several occassions he's used BBM (Big Black Men) as prisoners, and that they're even stereotypically dark- skinned and bald. Maybe he just doesn't get it, but I know it bothers me a great deal. Like I said, when the entire Pegasus command structure turns out white, and two bald brothers show up as the Admiral's personal guard, I was stunned. YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group scifinoir2 on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Life without art music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/FXrMlA/dnQLAA/Zx0JAA/LRMolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
I agree with that. He'd lost the fire after his wife's death. I'm just saying I wish he'd started out as Captain Sisko of whatever that starship was he was on. But hey, like you say, he grew like hell in what is probably my favorite Trek series. Oh course, ol' boy didn't really shine until he shaved that head and grew that beard, and became Hawk in the 24th Century! -- Original message -- Also remember that Sisko was Highly Pissed off at the world when he lost his wife...Realistically, I think that was the reason that, if he was passed over for the promotion, was...From what I gather, It seemed as if Sisko was on his way out of Starfleet as I read it...Hence, his posting at DS9...Very plausible...And I thought he did a helluva job turning himself around in one episode... Keith Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually I was going back to the premiere, where Sisko was First Officer of his ship. I felt his character should have been a captain of that starship, not the XO. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Astromancer Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 19:20 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? On one point, I have to say militarily was incorrect...Sisko was a commander, but of an outpost, not a ship, which I am assuming the captain's rank was reserved for ship's commanders...But I do see your point... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Your point is dead-on, which is what I meant. Star Trek was the beacon, starting slowly (a Black woman, no Black men in major roles), then grew with Geordi (whose disability definitely raised eyebrows among Blacks) and Worf, and reaching fruition in Sisko. The series matured in its treatment of people of color (though why Sisko was the only lead character in all the shows that started out as a commander instead of a captain was puzzling). That's what I meant about Enterprise going backwards. They literally regressed over three decades and relegated the Black and Asian characters to the same levels of background noise that unfortunately mostly defined Uhura and Sulu. And speaking of Sulu, MAJOR crime to my mind that George Takei, who has great screen presence, was never able to shine in Trek as he deserved. I'd have loved to have seen a movie based on his Excelsior. And you are so correct in saying that you hate the treatment of people of color on Galactica more now that you like it. I'm the same way. I hated the show when it started, wrote a scathing review in our group, then grew to love it. But then I look up and see the Asian girl being the love interest for two different white dudes, and ditto for the Black girl (Moore hints to a developing love triangle between the Sister, Billy, and Apollo). I see no Brothers playing anything but guards and muscle, as you say. And i just have to wonder, is it intentional or just more of the same white ignorance? Moore is a white man, and maybe bringing women of color on to be love interests for white men is diversity to him. Maybe he hasn't noticed that on several occassions he's used BBM (Big Black Men) as prisoners, and that they're even stereotypically dark-skinned and bald. Maybe he just doesn't get it, but I know it bothers me a great deal. Like I said, when the entire Pegasus command structure turns out white, and two bald brothers show up as the Admiral's personal guard, I was stunned. I'm hoping season three will somehow address this problem. tetsuwanatom1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, you know, we hold up Trek as the beacon, but it was really just the first. I don't think they really got it until TNG was deep into its run. Uhura was a hot swingin babe in a miniskirt. TOS did have black cast members playing doctors (!) and scientists (!!!) though. But really, a black dude with space shades? Burton really worked that character into something. And what abt other minorities in TNG? Had the Japanese nurse . . .. Worf, he's Klingon, just the actor is black. Casting Dorn as Worf though did lead to primarily casting black (men) as Klingons most often. Same could be said for Tuvok, though Vulcans are a little more human looking so his color is more in your face. Funny that the lack of black males on BSG bothers me more now than it did at first. That's because I HATED the show at first. Now it's at least tolerable. I like Olmos, Sackhoff has grown on me, and I'm a bit curious to see where their going, even if on occasion they do telegraph their punches. To that end, I'm also kinda hanging around to see if Moore will EVER come right out and say that there is racism in the colonies, as his constant presentation of black males as jailbirds and muscle seems to suggest. Or perhaps one day he'll admit he just has no idea what to do with issues of race or ethnic actors (who are not asian women). -- Original message
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
Capoeria is the fighting style Wesley Snipes uses a great deal in the Blade movies. Not purely, of course, but it's an influence. -- Original message -- --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Kelly Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A notable exception was Eddie Gordo from Tekken 3. SNIP! See the excellent article on Eddie Gordo from Planet Capoeira. http://www.capoeira.com/planetcapoeira/articles/gordo.htm I'm a little ashamed to admit it, but I play Capoeira now mostly because I was a rabid fan of Tekken 3 and I thought (and still think) Eddy Gordo was the coolest thing since sliced bread. IRL I can *almost* get his Armada-Macaco-Mortal combo and I'm still working on the Armada Dupla - in English, that's Gordo's Standing Spinning Kick, Crouching Back Hand Spring to a Backfip (haven't gotten the backflip down yet) and I'm still working on the flying spinning double leg kick - I can get about 2 feet off the ground right now - course in Capoeira, most people do that kick with the legs going up and over, rather than across. Anyway, along with more Sci Fi featuring Blacks, I'd love to see/help produce a feature film that uses Capoeira as the main fighting art. Only the Strong was decent for its time, but I'd like to see a movie starring someone who actually plays Capoeira and something that's shot in such a way you can see the movements - unlike that travesty Catwoman. What pisses me off about Catwoman is the few Capoeira movements she used (Meia Lua to three Meia Lua de Compasso in the scene where the busts up the diamond robbery) were hidden by blurry, murky MTV-esque moving camera shots (that same issue I had with most of the fights in Batman Begins, ESPECIALLY the fight at the end of the movie in the train where you have two masters fighting each other - at that point in the movie, it was UNFORGIVABLE to have murky camera shots and fast editing). I was really hoping I'd be able to point to Catwoman and say This is Capoeira, or at least some of the movements in Capoeira *sigh* SPONSORED LINKS Science fiction and fantasy Genre magazine YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group scifinoir2 on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/LRMolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
In a message dated 10/9/05 4:17:28 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think it is as simple as this: 'We' didn't write it...'We' have very little to do with it...'We' are not part of his world... And there for If I am not part of his world then I do not have to watch it. And tell others to do the same. And they wonder why it's hard to attract blacks into sci-fi. -GTW [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/LRMolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
yeah, Enterprise was a huge one. I posted a review of every single episode here, and I can think of maybe one show--two at best--where Mayweather had a significant role. I often stated only half-jokingly that he had less screen time than Archer's dog Porthos! Hoshi--the Asian Comm officer--fared only slighter better. It was very confusing for a modern Star Trek show to take steps backwards in usage of people of color. Before we had Geordi, Worf, Tuvok, Torres. Some used better than others, but all used more than Mayweather. That misstep was more of the same bad written that helped doom the series, as the whole thing was a confused mess until the last season. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carole McDonnell Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 09:56 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? Ah, so true!! That's also one of the reasons I couldn't watch Enterprise. They didn't seem to know what to do with the black guy. I mean...they had a black guy on the deck and all. But it was so obvious, they didn't think enough to give him a personality. So he was just this good- natured token. Quota filled but essentials still not understood. -C --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it is as simple as this: 'We' didn't write it...'We' have very little to do with it...'We' are not part of his world... Keith Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And to repost yet again, I'm still wondering. On the season-ending show where the Battlestar Pegasus is found, Admiral Caine travels to Galactica. As her Raptor doors open, we see that she's accompanied by an impressive group of officers and security. The first to disembark are two snarling, armed guards, who scan the crowd with suspicion. I was struck that both of these bookends were Black--and bald... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/LRMolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
Your point is dead-on, which is what I meant. Star Trek was the beacon, starting slowly (a Black woman, no Black men in major roles), then grew with Geordi (whose disability definitely raised eyebrows among Blacks) and Worf, and reaching fruition in Sisko. The series matured in its treatment of people of color (though why Sisko was the only lead character in all the shows that started out as a commander instead of a captain was puzzling). That's what I meant about Enterprise going backwards. They literally regressed over three decades and relegated the Black and Asian characters to the same levels of background noise that unfortunately mostly defined Uhura and Sulu. And speaking of Sulu, MAJOR crime to my mind that George Takei, who has great screen presence, was never able to shine in Trek as he deserved. I'd have loved to have seen a movie based on his Excelsior. And you are so correct in saying that you hate the treatment of people of color on Galactica more now that you like it. I'm the same way. I hated the show when it started, wrote a scathing review in our group, then grew to love it. But then I look up and see the Asian girl being the love interest for two different white dudes, and ditto for the Black girl (Moore hints to a developing love triangle between the Sister, Billy, and Apollo). I see no Brothers playing anything but guards and muscle, as you say. And i just have to wonder, is it intentional or just more of the same white ignorance? Moore is a white man, and maybe bringing women of color on to be love interests for white men is diversity to him. Maybe he hasn't noticed that on several occassions he's used BBM (Big Black Men) as prisoners, and that they're even stereotypically dark-skinned and bald. Maybe he just doesn't get it, but I know it bothers me a great deal. Like I said, when the entire Pegasus command structure turns out white, and two bald brothers show up as the Admiral's personal guard, I was stunned. I'm hoping season three will somehow address this problem. tetsuwanatom1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, you know, we hold up Trek as the beacon, but it was really just the first. I don't think they really got it until TNG was deep into its run. Uhura was a hot swingin babe in a miniskirt. TOS did have black cast members playing doctors (!) and scientists (!!!) though. But really, a black dude with space shades? Burton really worked that character into something. And what abt other minorities in TNG? Had the Japanese nurse . . .. Worf, he's Klingon, just the actor is black. Casting Dorn as Worf though did lead to primarily casting black (men) as Klingons most often. Same could be said for Tuvok, though Vulcans are a little more human looking so his color is more in your face. Funny that the lack of black males on BSG bothers me more now than it did at first. That's because I HATED the show at first. Now it's at least tolerable. I like Olmos, Sackhoff has grown on me, and I'm a bit curious to see where their going, even if on occasion they do telegraph their punches. To that end, I'm also kinda hanging around to see if Moore will EVER come right out and say that there is racism in the colonies, as his constant presentation of black males as jailbirds and muscle seems to suggest. Or perhaps one day he'll admit he just has no idea what to do with issues of race or ethnic actors (who are not asian women). -- Original message -- --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, Enterprise was a huge one. I posted a review of every single episode here, and I can think of maybe one show--two at best--where Mayweather had a significant role. I often stated only half-jokingly that he had less screen time than Archer's dog Porthos! Hoshi--the Asian Comm officer--fared only slighter better. It was very confusing for a modern Star Trek show to take steps backwards in usage of people of color. Before we had Geordi, Worf, Tuvok, Torres. Some used better than others, but all used more than Mayweather. That misstep was more of the same bad written that helped doom the series, as the whole thing was a confused mess until the last season. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carole McDonnell Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 09:56 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? Ah, so true!! That's also one of the reasons I couldn't watch Enterprise. They didn't seem to know what to do with the black guy. I mean...they had a black guy on the deck and all. But it was so obvious, they didn't think enough to give him a personality. So he was just this good- natured token. Quota filled but essentials still not understood. -C --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it is as simple as this: 'We'
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
On one point, I have to say militarily was incorrect...Sisko was a commander, but of an outpost, not a ship, which I am assuming the captain's rank was reserved for ship's commanders...But I do see your point... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Your point is dead-on, which is what I meant. Star Trek was the beacon, starting slowly (a Black woman, no Black men in major roles), then grew with Geordi (whose disability definitely raised eyebrows among Blacks) and Worf, and reaching fruition in Sisko. The series matured in its treatment of people of color (though why Sisko was the only lead character in all the shows that started out as a commander instead of a captain was puzzling). That's what I meant about Enterprise going backwards. They literally regressed over three decades and relegated the Black and Asian characters to the same levels of background noise that unfortunately mostly defined Uhura and Sulu. And speaking of Sulu, MAJOR crime to my mind that George Takei, who has great screen presence, was never able to shine in Trek as he deserved. I'd have loved to have seen a movie based on his Excelsior. And you are so correct in saying that you hate the treatment of people of color on Galactica more now that you like it. I'm the same way. I hated the show when it started, wrote a scathing review in our group, then grew to love it. But then I look up and see the Asian girl being the love interest for two different white dudes, and ditto for the Black girl (Moore hints to a developing love triangle between the Sister, Billy, and Apollo). I see no Brothers playing anything but guards and muscle, as you say. And i just have to wonder, is it intentional or just more of the same white ignorance? Moore is a white man, and maybe bringing women of color on to be love interests for white men is diversity to him. Maybe he hasn't noticed that on several occassions he's used BBM (Big Black Men) as prisoners, and that they're even stereotypically dark-skinned and bald. Maybe he just doesn't get it, but I know it bothers me a great deal. Like I said, when the entire Pegasus command structure turns out white, and two bald brothers show up as the Admiral's personal guard, I was stunned. I'm hoping season three will somehow address this problem. tetsuwanatom1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, you know, we hold up Trek as the beacon, but it was really just the first. I don't think they really got it until TNG was deep into its run. Uhura was a hot swingin babe in a miniskirt. TOS did have black cast members playing doctors (!) and scientists (!!!) though. But really, a black dude with space shades? Burton really worked that character into something. And what abt other minorities in TNG? Had the Japanese nurse . . .. Worf, he's Klingon, just the actor is black. Casting Dorn as Worf though did lead to primarily casting black (men) as Klingons most often. Same could be said for Tuvok, though Vulcans are a little more human looking so his color is more in your face. Funny that the lack of black males on BSG bothers me more now than it did at first. That's because I HATED the show at first. Now it's at least tolerable. I like Olmos, Sackhoff has grown on me, and I'm a bit curious to see where their going, even if on occasion they do telegraph their punches. To that end, I'm also kinda hanging around to see if Moore will EVER come right out and say that there is racism in the colonies, as his constant presentation of black males as jailbirds and muscle seems to suggest. Or perhaps one day he'll admit he just has no idea what to do with issues of race or ethnic actors (who are not asian women). -- Original message -- --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, Enterprise was a huge one. I posted a review of every single episode here, and I can think of maybe one show--two at best--where Mayweather had a significant role. I often stated only half-jokingly that he had less screen time than Archer's dog Porthos! Hoshi--the Asian Comm officer--fared only slighter better. It was very confusing for a modern Star Trek show to take steps backwards in usage of people of color. Before we had Geordi, Worf, Tuvok, Torres. Some used better than others, but all used more than Mayweather. That misstep was more of the same bad written that helped doom the series, as the whole thing was a confused mess until the last season. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carole McDonnell Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 09:56 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? Ah, so true!! That's also one of the reasons I couldn't watch Enterprise. They didn't seem to know what to do with the black guy. I mean...they had a black guy on the deck and all. But it was so obvious, they didn't think enough
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
That sounds like an opportunity to change things...doesn't it? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 10/9/05 4:17:28 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think it is as simple as this: 'We' didn't write it...'We' have very little to do with it...'We' are not part of his world... And there for If I am not part of his world then I do not have to watch it. And tell others to do the same. And they wonder why it's hard to attract blacks into sci-fi. -GTW [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Science fiction and fantasy Music genres Genre magazine - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group scifinoir2 on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - - Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/LRMolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
In a message dated 10/10/05 7:53:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That sounds like an opportunity to change things...doesn't it? Yeup. The million dollar question is how? :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/LRMolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
Actually I was going back to the premiere, where Sisko was First Officer of his ship. I felt his character should have been a captain of that starship, not the XO. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Astromancer Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 19:20 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? On one point, I have to say militarily was incorrect...Sisko was a commander, but of an outpost, not a ship, which I am assuming the captain's rank was reserved for ship's commanders...But I do see your point... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Your point is dead-on, which is what I meant. Star Trek was the beacon, starting slowly (a Black woman, no Black men in major roles), then grew with Geordi (whose disability definitely raised eyebrows among Blacks) and Worf, and reaching fruition in Sisko. The series matured in its treatment of people of color (though why Sisko was the only lead character in all the shows that started out as a commander instead of a captain was puzzling). That's what I meant about Enterprise going backwards. They literally regressed over three decades and relegated the Black and Asian characters to the same levels of background noise that unfortunately mostly defined Uhura and Sulu. And speaking of Sulu, MAJOR crime to my mind that George Takei, who has great screen presence, was never able to shine in Trek as he deserved. I'd have loved to have seen a movie based on his Excelsior. And you are so correct in saying that you hate the treatment of people of color on Galactica more now that you like it. I'm the same way. I hated the show when it started, wrote a scathing review in our group, then grew to love it. But then I look up and see the Asian girl being the love interest for two different white dudes, and ditto for the Black girl (Moore hints to a developing love triangle between the Sister, Billy, and Apollo). I see no Brothers playing anything but guards and muscle, as you say. And i just have to wonder, is it intentional or just more of the same white ignorance? Moore is a white man, and maybe bringing women of color on to be love interests for white men is diversity to him. Maybe he hasn't noticed that on several occassions he's used BBM (Big Black Men) as prisoners, and that they're even stereotypically dark-skinned and bald. Maybe he just doesn't get it, but I know it bothers me a great deal. Like I said, when the entire Pegasus command structure turns out white, and two bald brothers show up as the Admiral's personal guard, I was stunned. I'm hoping season three will somehow address this problem. tetsuwanatom1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, you know, we hold up Trek as the beacon, but it was really just the first. I don't think they really got it until TNG was deep into its run. Uhura was a hot swingin babe in a miniskirt. TOS did have black cast members playing doctors (!) and scientists (!!!) though. But really, a black dude with space shades? Burton really worked that character into something. And what abt other minorities in TNG? Had the Japanese nurse . . .. Worf, he's Klingon, just the actor is black. Casting Dorn as Worf though did lead to primarily casting black (men) as Klingons most often. Same could be said for Tuvok, though Vulcans are a little more human looking so his color is more in your face. Funny that the lack of black males on BSG bothers me more now than it did at first. That's because I HATED the show at first. Now it's at least tolerable. I like Olmos, Sackhoff has grown on me, and I'm a bit curious to see where their going, even if on occasion they do telegraph their punches. To that end, I'm also kinda hanging around to see if Moore will EVER come right out and say that there is racism in the colonies, as his constant presentation of black males as jailbirds and muscle seems to suggest. Or perhaps one day he'll admit he just has no idea what to do with issues of race or ethnic actors (who are not asian women). -- Original message -- --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, Enterprise was a huge one. I posted a review of every single episode here, and I can think of maybe one show--two at best--where Mayweather had a significant role. I often stated only half-jokingly that he had less screen time than Archer's dog Porthos! Hoshi--the Asian Comm officer--fared only slighter better. It was very confusing for a modern Star Trek show to take steps backwards in usage of people of color. Before we had Geordi, Worf, Tuvok, Torres. Some used better than others, but all used more than Mayweather. That misstep was more of the same bad written that helped doom the series, as the whole thing was a confused mess until the last season. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carole
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
I'll give you an answer when I'm done setting it up... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 10/10/05 7:53:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That sounds like an opportunity to change things...doesn't it? Yeup. The million dollar question is how? :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Science fiction and fantasy Genre magazine - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group scifinoir2 on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - - Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/LRMolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
And to repost yet again, I'm still wondering. On the season-ending show where the Battlestar Pegasus is found, Admiral Caine travels to Galactica. As her Raptor doors open, we see that she's accompanied by an impressive group of officers and security. The first to disembark are two snarling, armed guards, who scan the crowd with suspicion. I was struck that both of these bookends were Black--and bald! Again, maybe in modern times diversity for whites is no longer just about including Blacks as well. After all, Edward Olmos is Mexican, I think the dude who plays Mr. Gata is Latino, and Grace Park (who plays Sharon) is Asian. And the lady who plays the communications officer is Black. So maybe that seems diverse enough for Moore and company. There was one Black man with some screentime, the guard who ultimately helped President Rosalyn and Apollo escape, but Moore says he just wasn't a good enough fit to make a permanent character. Maybe as a 40-ish Black man I'm holding on to old ideas, and finding insult where there is none. But still, I'm honest enough to admit that it bothers me that they can find Black men to play guards and prisoners in the background, but none for some of the more glamorous roles. And i don't like that all the non-white women are put with white dudes. Too reminiscent of all the years when that was the norm on TV. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 15:24 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? i posted about this during Season one of Galactica and did a count of Blacks. I counted about three or four, incuding the comm officer and some nameless pilots (I assume) used in the background. I then found a lot of Blacks existed afterall: on the prison barge! When Apollo was sent over there to quell the riots, the place was lousy with Big Black Man, most of them dark-skinned as hell and bald... -- Original message -- --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, DJ VIBE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Battlestar Galactica: (New Series) Well, there's a COMMUNICATIONS officer. . . . Apparently all of the other Black people, with the exception of the religious leader, were killed in the bombing of Caprica. Same with Buck Rogers - I don't recall ever seeing a dark face on there, with the exception of the singers with three mouths - guess all the Black folks were killed off in the cataclysm while Buck was traveling through time. It seems that all the Black people live on Gemina (not Jemima, but too damn close) and are zealatous worshipers of the Kobol lords. Besides the communications officer, we've got the security guard who slips the president her meds, a priestess, and the leader from Gemina who was the first to bow before the Pres last episode. Wow, a race of magical negroes. You know Ron means well, but come on. Perhaps we'll have some strong characters when the Pegasus shows up. I think its that sci-fi in general doesn't have very many Black folks in it at all levels - writers, producers, directors, etc. I think that when none of the people who create something look like Wesley Snipes, chances are they will have issues, or at least some difficulty, seeing a Black face in that role - especially when that role has real power and possibilities for sexual attraction. In the new BSG, there's NO real reason why Adama couldn't have been Black, for example, unless the racial politics on Caprica also echo our civilization. In fact, the very concept of the series should lead to more color-blind casting as the Roman Empire, which this civilization is based on (or which perhaps was influenced by *this* civilization?) didn't do ethnic-based slavery. A good example of what the lack of Black folks behind the scenes does is the movie Pleasantville. This was an entire movie about people who lived in a Black and White world. The movie makes the point that the people there weren't alive until COLOR was introduced - yet there were NO Black people in the movie and only a few people of color in the beginning high school sequence in our world. To me, being Black and all, it seems obvious that the most shocking and obvious thing in this movie would have been the introduction of a Black person, or a whole *bunch* of Black people. Imagine finding out about the concept of color and then finding out that not only things can be different colors but PEOPLE as well! But I digress. . . . One of the things the original show *did* do well, IMHO, was show diversity - not just in the casting (having Asian and Black major characters) but the extras as well. Unlike Friends and other TV shows which seem to exist in some mythically White world (no Black or Hispanics in friggin NEW YORK!?!), there were people of color there - yes they were
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
In a message dated 10/9/05 11:12:42 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And to repost yet again, I'm still wondering. On the season-ending show where the Battlestar Pegasus is found, Admiral Caine travels to Galactica. As her Raptor doors open, we see that she's accompanied by an impressive group of officers and security. The first to disembark are two snarling, armed guards, who scan the crowd with suspicion. I was struck that both of these bookends were Black--and bald! Again, maybe in modern times diversity for whites is no longer just about including Blacks as well. After all, Edward Olmos is Mexican, I think the dude who plays Mr. Gata is Latino, and Grace Park (who plays Sharon) is Asian. And the lady who plays the communications officer is Black. So maybe that seems diverse enough for Moore and company. There was one Black man with some screentime, the guard who ultimately helped President Rosalyn and Apollo escape, but Moore says he just wasn't a good enough fit to make a permanent character. Maybe as a 40-ish Black man I'm holding on to old ideas, and finding insult where there is none. But still, I'm honest enough to admit that it bothers me that they can find Black men to play guards and prisoners in the background, but none for some of the more glamorous roles. And i don't like that all the non-white women are put with white dudes. Too reminiscent of all the years when that was the norm on TV. Again. The way Moore treats black males in the Neo BSG series is the reason why I find it hard to watch it. Especially if you concider that the orginial series, while not great seemed to do the opporsite. -GTW [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/LRMolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
It bothers me too, and I really like the show. But I look around and note how Black men are only background. Even the Pegasus command structure is white male from CIC to the fighter squadrons. It is a very disturbing thing indeed... -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 13:58 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? Again. The way Moore treats black males in the Neo BSG series is the reason why I find it hard to watch it. Especially if you concider that the orginial series, while not great seemed to do the opporsite. -GTW In a message dated 10/9/05 11:12:42 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And to repost yet again, I'm still wondering. On the season-ending show where the Battlestar Pegasus is found, Admiral Caine travels to Galactica. As her Raptor doors open, we see that she's accompanied by an impressive group of officers and security. The first to disembark are two snarling, armed guards, who scan the crowd with suspicion. I was struck that both of these bookends were Black--and bald! Again, maybe in modern times diversity for whites is no longer just about including Blacks as well. After all, Edward Olmos is Mexican, I think the dude who plays Mr. Gata is Latino, and Grace Park (who plays Sharon) is Asian. And the lady who plays the communications officer is Black. So maybe that seems diverse enough for Moore and company. There was one Black man with some screentime, the guard who ultimately helped President Rosalyn and Apollo escape, but Moore says he just wasn't a good enough fit to make a permanent character. Maybe as a 40-ish Black man I'm holding on to old ideas, and finding insult where there is none. But still, I'm honest enough to admit that it bothers me that they can find Black men to play guards and prisoners in the background, but none for some of the more glamorous roles. And i don't like that all the non-white women are put with white dudes. Too reminiscent of all the years when that was the norm on TV. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/LRMolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
I think it is as simple as this: 'We' didn't write it...'We' have very little to do with it...'We' are not part of his world... Keith Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:And to repost yet again, I'm still wondering. On the season-ending show where the Battlestar Pegasus is found, Admiral Caine travels to Galactica. As her Raptor doors open, we see that she's accompanied by an impressive group of officers and security. The first to disembark are two snarling, armed guards, who scan the crowd with suspicion. I was struck that both of these bookends were Black--and bald! Again, maybe in modern times diversity for whites is no longer just about including Blacks as well. After all, Edward Olmos is Mexican, I think the dude who plays Mr. Gata is Latino, and Grace Park (who plays Sharon) is Asian. And the lady who plays the communications officer is Black. So maybe that seems diverse enough for Moore and company. There was one Black man with some screentime, the guard who ultimately helped President Rosalyn and Apollo escape, but Moore says he just wasn't a good enough fit to make a permanent character. Maybe as a 40-ish Black man I'm holding on to old ideas, and finding insult where there is none. But still, I'm honest enough to admit that it bothers me that they can find Black men to play guards and prisoners in the background, but none for some of the more glamorous roles. And i don't like that all the non-white women are put with white dudes. Too reminiscent of all the years when that was the norm on TV. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 15:24 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? i posted about this during Season one of Galactica and did a count of Blacks. I counted about three or four, incuding the comm officer and some nameless pilots (I assume) used in the background. I then found a lot of Blacks existed afterall: on the prison barge! When Apollo was sent over there to quell the riots, the place was lousy with Big Black Man, most of them dark-skinned as hell and bald... -- Original message -- --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, DJ VIBE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Battlestar Galactica: (New Series) Well, there's a COMMUNICATIONS officer. . . . Apparently all of the other Black people, with the exception of the religious leader, were killed in the bombing of Caprica. Same with Buck Rogers - I don't recall ever seeing a dark face on there, with the exception of the singers with three mouths - guess all the Black folks were killed off in the cataclysm while Buck was traveling through time. It seems that all the Black people live on Gemina (not Jemima, but too damn close) and are zealatous worshipers of the Kobol lords. Besides the communications officer, we've got the security guard who slips the president her meds, a priestess, and the leader from Gemina who was the first to bow before the Pres last episode. Wow, a race of magical negroes. You know Ron means well, but come on. Perhaps we'll have some strong characters when the Pegasus shows up. I think its that sci-fi in general doesn't have very many Black folks in it at all levels - writers, producers, directors, etc. I think that when none of the people who create something look like Wesley Snipes, chances are they will have issues, or at least some difficulty, seeing a Black face in that role - especially when that role has real power and possibilities for sexual attraction. In the new BSG, there's NO real reason why Adama couldn't have been Black, for example, unless the racial politics on Caprica also echo our civilization. In fact, the very concept of the series should lead to more color-blind casting as the Roman Empire, which this civilization is based on (or which perhaps was influenced by *this* civilization?) didn't do ethnic-based slavery. A good example of what the lack of Black folks behind the scenes does is the movie Pleasantville. This was an entire movie about people who lived in a Black and White world. The movie makes the point that the people there weren't alive until COLOR was introduced - yet there were NO Black people in the movie and only a few people of color in the beginning high school sequence in our world. To me, being Black and all, it seems obvious that the most shocking and obvious thing in this movie would have been the introduction of a Black person, or a whole *bunch* of Black people. Imagine finding out about the concept of color and then finding out that not only things can be different colors but PEOPLE as well! But I digress. . . . One of the things the original show *did* do well, IMHO, was show diversity - not just in the casting (having Asian and Black major characters) but the extras as well. Unlike Friends
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
Didn't know of Gordo. There is a new Black character in Soul Calibur 2. Not sure what his powers are... -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly Wright Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 09:33 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? A notable exception was Eddie Gordo from Tekken 3. Unfortunately, Eddie was replaced by Christine in Tekken 4 (although he can be unlocked in both Tekken 4 and 5). I have read there is an African-American character named Raven http://www.tekken-official.jp/tekken5/character/raven_e.html in Tekken 5, who borrows quite a bit from Wesley Snipes' Blade, but I can't confirm this as I have been through with Tekken since they deep-sixed Eddie. See the excellent article on Eddie Gordo from Planet Capoeira. http://www.capoeira.com/planetcapoeira/articles/gordo.htm A few years ago the video game developer Namco released Tekken 3 to arcades, the third in a series of hugely successful video games. Introduced into this game was the world's first video game capoeirista. Surprisingly, the developers of the game did a pretty good job representing the art form. Certainly, there was some artistic license in the name of bombastic video flash, but overall not bad for a first try. At the time of development they used the then cutting edge technology of video motion capturing, hooking a real life capoeirista (Marcelo Pereira, i.e. Mestre Caveirinha of Capoeira Mandinga) up to some electrodes and sensors, and capturing his movements for all time into the annals of video game history. ~rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh yeah, I'm aware of it. I follow the videogame industry quite closely. I've even posted some articles on it here, such as the new phenomenon where actors, musicians, and atheletes now count starring in games as being as important as getting good endorsement deals. The issue of race is a huge one in gaming, and, as this article says, worse than that of gender. It's a male-dominated industry, true. But at least in RPGs--notably the Japanese ones--you get women used as heroines. Often part of a team, many times as the stars. Blacks are rarely seen in traditional RPGs: funny that you can have elves, giants, orcs, fairies, dudes with purple hair, etc., but no Brothers. And when Blacks are featured in such games, they're invariably shown as huge and hulking. Look at many fighting games, a genre which does feature Blacks. From the classic Street Fighter, to Streets of Rage (Bare Knuckle in Japan), to Soul Calibur, the Asian and white characters usually have skills such as speed, dexterity, flexiblity, agility, and are masters of a number of impressive martial arts. Black fighters are almost always rated high on size, strength, and cruder, more brutal fighting, such as boxing. A classic example is the Mike Tyson-like character in Street Fighter 2 who fought in a Vegas scene which was filled with Black pimps and prostitutes. The other characters had speed, superhuman skills and powers, he was just a big brawler. For years, the Big Black Guy has been a staple in gaming. We never get the slicker abilities. With the advent of the more realistic games like Grand Theft Auto, designers opened a new world in which games are based more on real environments. Unfortunately the realities they've chosen to portray have often been the inner city, gang-ridden, crime overrun ghettoes. Hence the Brother in GTA San Andreas, the roster of rappers starring in the fighter Def Jam Vendetta, and others. Oh: we also star in a host of football and basketball games, and show up as soldiers too--always subordinate to a white commander. Video games are becoming a huge part of our culture. They're as entrenched as TV and the Internet. The gaming industry is making money that meets or exceeds that of the film industry, billions of dollars. A single game like GTA or Halo can sell millions of units and be seen the world over by people from several cultures. What a sobering thought that the image of Blacks as hulking, graceless, thuglike pimps and gangsters is what Japanese and European gamers are seeing. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of g123curious Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 16:02 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Like many of y'all have said--better than me, I might add--it ultimately boils down to us controlling our own. Between whites that are prejudiced, whites that aren't prejudiced but let market factors shaped by *other* whites influence their decisions, and whites that simply don't get it, we're always fighting an uphill battle. Why are so many Blacks in scifi often used as aliens that are either weird
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
Like many of y'all have said--better than me, I might add--it ultimately boils down to us controlling our own. Between whites that are prejudiced, whites that aren't prejudiced but let market factors shaped by *other* whites influence their decisions, and whites that simply don't get it, we're always fighting an uphill battle. Why are so many Blacks in scifi often used as aliens that are either weird looking, or noble savages? I've complained more than once that Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis each use the noble savage in Teal'c and Teyla. Did you know that Rodney's character (the nerdy, grouchy, scary genius on Atlantis) was originally written for a Black man? The producers claim they couldn't find a Brother to really fit the role, so they brought in Rodney! Even then, what was odd was that the man they wanted was described as an elderly Black man. I have *nothing* against older actors. Indeed, I celebrate their usage, which is too infrequent. But it's strange that so often white geniuses (Daniel Jackson, Samatha Carter) are often depicted as young, vibrant, and attractive, but Black ones--when depicted--are often older, nerdier, unattractive. Strange. We could go on asking questions such as why someone like Will Smith still can't make a movie where he has a Black love interest, but again, it's back to us doing our own... -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DJ VIBE Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 09:16 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i posted about this during Season one of Galactica and did a count of Blacks. I counted about three or four, incuding the comm officer and some nameless pilots (I assume) used in the background. I then found a lot of Blacks existed afterall: on the prison barge! When Apollo was sent over there to quell the riots, the place was lousy with Big Black Man, most of them dark-skinned as hell and bald... See, you guys have me ROFLMBAO! I'm gonna double-check for that when I get the Season 1 DVD in September, but you're probably right and IIRC, Saggiterion, where Zarek and his followers are from, is considered the ghetto of the colonies. Go figure. _ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS *Visit your group scifinoir2 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2 on the web. *To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- font face=arial size=-1a href=http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hercgds/M=362335.6886444.7839734.2575449/D=groups/S=1705034827:TM/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1123259846/A=2894362/R=0/SIG=138c78jl6/*http://www.networkforgood.org/topics/arts_culture/?source=YAHOOcmpgn=GRPRTP=http://groups.yahoo.com/;What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good/a./font ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
Tiny as this audience is, it has the nerve to be extremely fractured and segmented. - You choice of words seem pretty harsh. How about us being more diversitfied in our tastes? That is simply one more challenge...It means you can keep serving up vanilla if you know that they crave a little butter pecan as well... Kelly Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:The problem with this is amply illustrated on the various black sci- fi and fantasy lists I subscribe to: all the black folks on those lists like sci-fi, fantasy, anime, comic books and horror, but all of those black folks don't like the SAME sci-fi, fantasy, anime, comic books and horror. Tiny as this audience is, it has the nerve to be extremely fractured and segmented. It has become crystal clear that what floats my boat, won't necessarily float anybody else's boat. In fact, sci-fi and fantasy constitutes a very small part of my current reading or viewing. I would much rather read a good detective novel than a good sci-fi book: I am more apt to read Walter Mosley than Brandon Massey. My heavy SF reading was almost a quarter century ago. I remain in these groups because the people I have met there tend to be interesting and intelligent but when it comes to satisfying our diverse tastes, I don't believe we can all get along! ~rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, md_moore42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's why I mentioned editing and supporting the writers with our cash. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, tetsuwanatom1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: star. You pitch it to the studio . . . and they say no. Just because we write the movie doesn't mean it will get made. I suppose then you could say, Well, we have to make the movie. Uh, okay. I need 100 million dollars. Im taking collections . . . - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group scifinoir2 on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- font face=arial size=-1a href=http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hvum7mg/M=362335.6886444.7839734.2575449/D=groups/S=1705034827:TM/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1123286962/A=2894362/R=0/SIG=138c78jl6/*http://www.networkforgood.org/topics/arts_culture/?source=YAHOOcmpgn=GRPRTP=http://groups.yahoo.com/;What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good/a./font ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
Oh yeah, I'm aware of it. I follow the videogame industry quite closely. I've even posted some articles on it here, such as the new phenomenon where actors, musicians, and atheletes now count starring in games as being as important as getting good endorsement deals. The issue of race is a huge one in gaming, and, as this article says, worse than that of gender. It's a male-dominated industry, true. But at least in RPGs--notably the Japanese ones--you get women used as heroines. Often part of a team, many times as the stars. Blacks are rarely seen in traditional RPGs: funny that you can have elves, giants, orcs, fairies, dudes with purple hair, etc., but no Brothers. And when Blacks are featured in such games, they're invariably shown as huge and hulking. Look at many fighting games, a genre which does feature Blacks. From the classic Street Fighter, to Streets of Rage (Bare Knuckle in Japan), to Soul Calibur, the Asian and white characters usually have skills such as speed, dexterity, flexiblity, agility, and are masters of a number of impressive martial arts. Black fighters are almost always rated high on size, strength, and cruder, more brutal fighting, such as boxing. A classic example is the Mike Tyson-like character in Street Fighter 2 who fought in a Vegas scene which was filled with Black pimps and prostitutes. The other characters had speed, superhuman skills and powers, he was just a big brawler. For years, the Big Black Guy has been a staple in gaming. We never get the slicker abilities. With the advent of the more realistic games like Grand Theft Auto, designers opened a new world in which games are based more on real environments. Unfortunately the realities they've chosen to portray have often been the inner city, gang-ridden, crime overrun ghettoes. Hence the Brother in GTA San Andreas, the roster of rappers starring in the fighter Def Jam Vendetta, and others. Oh: we also star in a host of football and basketball games, and show up as soldiers too--always subordinate to a white commander. Video games are becoming a huge part of our culture. They're as entrenched as TV and the Internet. The gaming industry is making money that meets or exceeds that of the film industry, billions of dollars. A single game like GTA or Halo can sell millions of units and be seen the world over by people from several cultures. What a sobering thought that the image of Blacks as hulking, graceless, thuglike pimps and gangsters is what Japanese and European gamers are seeing. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of g123curious Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 16:02 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Like many of y'all have said--better than me, I might add--it ultimately boils down to us controlling our own. Between whites that are prejudiced, whites that aren't prejudiced but let market factors shaped by *other* whites influence their decisions, and whites that simply don't get it, we're always fighting an uphill battle. Why are so many Blacks in scifi often used as aliens that are either weird looking, or noble savages? Don't forget how we are portrayed in video games, where we now seem to be getting more and more leading roles like CJ. See below. That's part of the problem, too. It's good to read about this brother, Armstrong, who is taking action. George - - - - - - - - - http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/fun.games/08/05/minority.gaming.ap/index .html Drawing minorities into gaming Push for more black, Hispanic heroes in video games Friday, August 5, 2005; Posted: 12:07 p.m. EDT (16:07 GMT) [Photograph. Caption: Urban Video Game Institute co-founder Joseph Saulter, demonstrates 3D animation software.] ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- In the popular video game Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, players assume the lead character of Carl Johnson, a down-on-his-luck criminal who roams city streets, stealing cars and helping gang members knock off rivals in drive-by shootings. CJ, as he's known by his pals, is black -- and to some in the video game industry, that's a problem. A growing number of people in the booming industry believe there should be more black and Hispanic heroes and heroines instead of hoods and hoodlums. Not everybody goes outside with bling-bling and listens to rap music all day, says Amil Tomlin, a black 15-year-old from Baltimore who plays hours of video games each day. Among those trying to paint a different racial picture is Mario Armstrong, who hosts a weekly National Public Radio program on technology. He and two fellow black colleagues have started the Urban Video Game Academy, a virtual programming boot camp for minorities. It's been said that a bunch of nerdy white guys are creating these games, Armstrong said. The problem with a bunch of white guys creating the games is that the story isn't being created with
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What does Sci-Fi have against Black people?
i posted about this during Season one of Galactica and did a count of Blacks. I counted about three or four, incuding the comm officer and some nameless pilots (I assume) used in the background. I then found a lot of Blacks existed afterall: on the prison barge! When Apollo was sent over there to quell the riots, the place was lousy with Big Black Man, most of them dark-skinned as hell and bald... -- Original message -- --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, DJ VIBE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Battlestar Galactica: (New Series) Well, there's a COMMUNICATIONS officer. . . . Apparently all of the other Black people, with the exception of the religious leader, were killed in the bombing of Caprica. Same with Buck Rogers - I don't recall ever seeing a dark face on there, with the exception of the singers with three mouths - guess all the Black folks were killed off in the cataclysm while Buck was traveling through time. It seems that all the Black people live on Gemina (not Jemima, but too damn close) and are zealatous worshipers of the Kobol lords. Besides the communications officer, we've got the security guard who slips the president her meds, a priestess, and the leader from Gemina who was the first to bow before the Pres last episode. Wow, a race of magical negroes. You know Ron means well, but come on. Perhaps we'll have some strong characters when the Pegasus shows up. I think its that sci-fi in general doesn't have very many Black folks in it at all levels - writers, producers, directors, etc. I think that when none of the people who create something look like Wesley Snipes, chances are they will have issues, or at least some difficulty, seeing a Black face in that role - especially when that role has real power and possibilities for sexual attraction. In the new BSG, there's NO real reason why Adama couldn't have been Black, for example, unless the racial politics on Caprica also echo our civilization. In fact, the very concept of the series should lead to more color-blind casting as the Roman Empire, which this civilization is based on (or which perhaps was influenced by *this* civilization?) didn't do ethnic-based slavery. A good example of what the lack of Black folks behind the scenes does is the movie Pleasantville. This was an entire movie about people who lived in a Black and White world. The movie makes the point that the people there weren't alive until COLOR was introduced - yet there were NO Black people in the movie and only a few people of color in the beginning high school sequence in our world. To me, being Black and all, it seems obvious that the most shocking and obvious thing in this movie would have been the introduction of a Black person, or a whole *bunch* of Black people. Imagine finding out about the concept of color and then finding out that not only things can be different colors but PEOPLE as well! But I digress. . . . One of the things the original show *did* do well, IMHO, was show diversity - not just in the casting (having Asian and Black major characters) but the extras as well. Unlike Friends and other TV shows which seem to exist in some mythically White world (no Black or Hispanics in friggin NEW YORK!?!), there were people of color there - yes they were in the background, but there were THERE. Anyway, I've always said we'd be much better off if, instead of begging Whitey for inclusion, we would form companies and produce our own media. If we really want to see Sci-Fi and other media outlets change their views, or lack therof, of Black folk, we need to get up off our collective duff and make them or, if lacking the knowledge and ability to make them, make it a point to support those who are. If films like Sankofa and Rosewood got the support we give films like Scarface and Willie Wonka (I *think* I saw 1 Black person in the film not counting the Oompa Loompa guy), I don't think this would be an issue. Thoughts? YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group scifinoir2 on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- font face=arial size=-1a href=http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hf5viuo/M=362335.6886444.7839734.2575449/D=groups/S=1705034827:TM/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1123194436/A=2894362/R=0/SIG=138c78jl6/*http://www.networkforgood.org/topics/arts_culture/?source=YAHOOcmpgn=GRPRTP=http://groups.yahoo.com/;What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good/a./font ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:
