Re: SDL2 + POGL2 + PDL confluence

[Kartik Thakore]

Hey Chris,


  


I am definitely interested in helping with this. Perhaps we should make a 
test module that tests just these integration.


  


It will get latest branches of the 3 projects and run tests.


  


What do you think?

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Chris Marshall 
wrote:

> PDL/SDL/OpenGL users-
> With the recently announced SDL2 release and in-progress work
> to provide perl bindings for the same, I wanted to share my
> thoughts for leveraging joint capabilities of these three
> modules with a couple of specific points.
> 1) SDL2 brings integrated hardware acceleration via Direct3D and/or
>OpenGL to both 2D and 3D graphics.  This offers the possiblity
>of using modern OpenGL API features like renderbuffers for
>computation and display.
> 2) PDL provides a high level array computation language that
>can be used as a back-end engine for SDL applications and
>visualization.  The PDL::Graphics::TriD currently uses
>the OpenGL-1.x fixed pipeline interface.
> 3) Perl OpenGL currently supports the original fixed-pipeline
>display process of OpenGL-1.x and some 2.x functionality.
>Work is underway to update the support to modern OpenGL
>APIs such as OpenGL-3.x, OpenGLES,...
> The common thread here is OpenGL, and I think that by updating
> the OpenGL use and interfaces to the modern programmable display
> pipeline we can generate significant synergy between the
> projects:
> 1) Update Perl OpenGL to modern OpenGL (In progress by slowed
>by the fact that my development time is spread too thin.
>Am I the only one with a whole slew of projects for which
>I know *exactly* what and how to do them but not having
>the time to execute?  :-)
> 2) Refactor PDL::Graphics::TriD to use modern OpenGL for
>display rather than the fixed-function pipeline of OpenGL
>API 1.x.
> 3) Update PDL to support (simply) the use of arbitrary
>sources of data (e.g., I'm thinking framebuffer and
>renderbuffer objects but deliberately being more
>general since I could also imagine some sort of
>generator that could act like a piddle for computation
>with PDL).
> 4) Add GPGPU support to PDL computation.
> 5) Add support to the perl SDL2 interface to allow easy
>mix and match operation with PDL for computation, IO,
>and visualization.  I could see PDL+GPGPU computing
>working well with realtime game or display computations.
> Well, the above ideas have a some hand waving to make them
> happen, but I think the pieces are there.
> Comments?
> Chris

SDL2 + POGL2 + PDL confluence

[Chris Marshall]

PDL/SDL/OpenGL users-

With the recently announced SDL2 release and in-progress work
to provide perl bindings for the same, I wanted to share my
thoughts for leveraging joint capabilities of these three
modules with a couple of specific points.

1) SDL2 brings integrated hardware acceleration via Direct3D and/or
   OpenGL to both 2D and 3D graphics.  This offers the possiblity
   of using modern OpenGL API features like renderbuffers for
   computation and display.

2) PDL provides a high level array computation language that
   can be used as a back-end engine for SDL applications and
   visualization.  The PDL::Graphics::TriD currently uses
   the OpenGL-1.x fixed pipeline interface.

3) Perl OpenGL currently supports the original fixed-pipeline
   display process of OpenGL-1.x and some 2.x functionality.
   Work is underway to update the support to modern OpenGL
   APIs such as OpenGL-3.x, OpenGLES,...

The common thread here is OpenGL, and I think that by updating
the OpenGL use and interfaces to the modern programmable display
pipeline we can generate significant synergy between the
projects:

1) Update Perl OpenGL to modern OpenGL (In progress by slowed
   by the fact that my development time is spread too thin.
   Am I the only one with a whole slew of projects for which
   I know *exactly* what and how to do them but not having
   the time to execute?  :-)

2) Refactor PDL::Graphics::TriD to use modern OpenGL for
   display rather than the fixed-function pipeline of OpenGL
   API 1.x.

3) Update PDL to support (simply) the use of arbitrary
   sources of data (e.g., I'm thinking framebuffer and
   renderbuffer objects but deliberately being more
   general since I could also imagine some sort of
   generator that could act like a piddle for computation
   with PDL).

4) Add GPGPU support to PDL computation.

5) Add support to the perl SDL2 interface to allow easy
   mix and match operation with PDL for computation, IO,
   and visualization.  I could see PDL+GPGPU computing
   working well with realtime game or display computations.

Well, the above ideas have a some hand waving to make them
happen, but I think the pieces are there.

Comments?
Chris

Re: SDL 2.0.0 has finally been released

[Chris Marshall]

The current POGL module uses XS functions for
constant values.  alias pointed out that that prevents
the perl compiler from doing performance optimizations
resulting bigger, slower code.

For the current POGL2 work, I'm switching to use
constants from the XS loader where the constant
values are determined from the appropriate headers.

It is a bit simpler for the case of OpenGL constants
since their values are actually specified in the
standard so getting them directly from there (via
the GLEW sources) means I don't have to deal
with platform-specific include file processing and
parsing. A nice feature is that it is possible to have
constants for features that may not be supported
by your current runtime environment.  The fact
that they are visible at the perl/source layer is
nice too.

In the SDL2 case, couldn't Alien::SDL2 perform the
constant determination (and even generation) for the
bindings to use?

--Chris

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Kartik Thakore
 wrote:
> No problem. Btw do you have any comments on the new Constants.pm ? Using XS
> to load them instead of use constants?
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Chris Marshall 
> wrote:
>>
>> Excellent, thanks for the link!  --Chris
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Kartik Thakore
>>  wrote:
>> > We are working on it: http://github.com/PerlGameDev/SDL2
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Chris Marshall 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Are there any perl bindings to SDL2?  The libsdl.org site
>> >> only lists C#, Pascal, and Python.
>> >>
>> >> --Chris
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Kartik Thakore
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> > Yeah all of them. Also smpeg was missing.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 6:10 AM, kmx  wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 13.8.2013 22:24, Kartik Thakore wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Yeah read this! Hey kmx, anyway you can update the packs? or FROGGS
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If you mean urls in Alien::SDL2 -
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> https://github.com/PerlGameDev/Alien-SDL2/blob/master/inc/My/Utility.pm#L58
>> >> >> - I can do it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Just SDL2_xxx packages or should I update also zlib, png, freetype
>> >> >> ...
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> the latest versions?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> kmx
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>
>

Re: SDL 2.0.0 has finally been released

[Kartik Thakore]

No problem. Btw do you have any comments on the new Constants.pm ? Using XS
to load them instead of use constants?


On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Chris Marshall wrote:

> Excellent, thanks for the link!  --Chris
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Kartik Thakore
>  wrote:
> > We are working on it: http://github.com/PerlGameDev/SDL2
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Chris Marshall 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Are there any perl bindings to SDL2?  The libsdl.org site
> >> only lists C#, Pascal, and Python.
> >>
> >> --Chris
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Kartik Thakore
> >>  wrote:
> >> > Yeah all of them. Also smpeg was missing.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 6:10 AM, kmx  wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On 13.8.2013 22:24, Kartik Thakore wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Yeah read this! Hey kmx, anyway you can update the packs? or FROGGS
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> If you mean urls in Alien::SDL2 -
> >> >>
> >> >>
> https://github.com/PerlGameDev/Alien-SDL2/blob/master/inc/My/Utility.pm#L58
> >> >> - I can do it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Just SDL2_xxx packages or should I update also zlib, png, freetype
> ...
> >> >> to
> >> >> the latest versions?
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> kmx
> >> >>
> >> >
> >
> >
>

Re: SDL 2.0.0 has finally been released

[Chris Marshall]

Excellent, thanks for the link!  --Chris

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Kartik Thakore
 wrote:
> We are working on it: http://github.com/PerlGameDev/SDL2
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Chris Marshall 
> wrote:
>>
>> Are there any perl bindings to SDL2?  The libsdl.org site
>> only lists C#, Pascal, and Python.
>>
>> --Chris
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Kartik Thakore
>>  wrote:
>> > Yeah all of them. Also smpeg was missing.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 6:10 AM, kmx  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 13.8.2013 22:24, Kartik Thakore wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Yeah read this! Hey kmx, anyway you can update the packs? or FROGGS
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> If you mean urls in Alien::SDL2 -
>> >>
>> >> https://github.com/PerlGameDev/Alien-SDL2/blob/master/inc/My/Utility.pm#L58
>> >> - I can do it.
>> >>
>> >> Just SDL2_xxx packages or should I update also zlib, png, freetype ...
>> >> to
>> >> the latest versions?
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> kmx
>> >>
>> >
>
>

Re: SDL 2.0.0 has finally been released

[Kartik Thakore]

We are working on it: http://github.com/PerlGameDev/SDL2




On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Chris Marshall wrote:

> Are there any perl bindings to SDL2?  The libsdl.org site
> only lists C#, Pascal, and Python.
>
> --Chris
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Kartik Thakore
>  wrote:
> > Yeah all of them. Also smpeg was missing.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 6:10 AM, kmx  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 13.8.2013 22:24, Kartik Thakore wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Yeah read this! Hey kmx, anyway you can update the packs? or FROGGS
> >>
> >>
> >> If you mean urls in Alien::SDL2 -
> >>
> https://github.com/PerlGameDev/Alien-SDL2/blob/master/inc/My/Utility.pm#L58
> >> - I can do it.
> >>
> >> Just SDL2_xxx packages or should I update also zlib, png, freetype ...
> to
> >> the latest versions?
> >>
> >> --
> >> kmx
> >>
> >
>

Re: SDL 2.0.0 has finally been released

[Chris Marshall]

Are there any perl bindings to SDL2?  The libsdl.org site
only lists C#, Pascal, and Python.

--Chris

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Kartik Thakore
 wrote:
> Yeah all of them. Also smpeg was missing.
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 6:10 AM, kmx  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 13.8.2013 22:24, Kartik Thakore wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah read this! Hey kmx, anyway you can update the packs? or FROGGS
>>
>>
>> If you mean urls in Alien::SDL2 -
>> https://github.com/PerlGameDev/Alien-SDL2/blob/master/inc/My/Utility.pm#L58
>> - I can do it.
>>
>> Just SDL2_xxx packages or should I update also zlib, png, freetype ... to
>> the latest versions?
>>
>> --
>> kmx
>>
>

Re: SDL 2.0.0 has finally been released

[Kartik Thakore]

Yeah all of them. Also smpeg was missing.


On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 6:10 AM, kmx  wrote:

>
> On 13.8.2013 22:24, Kartik Thakore wrote:
>
>> Yeah read this! Hey kmx, anyway you can update the packs? or FROGGS
>>
>
> If you mean urls in Alien::SDL2 - https://github.com/**
> PerlGameDev/Alien-SDL2/blob/**master/inc/My/Utility.pm#L58-
>  I can do it.
>
> Just SDL2_xxx packages or should I update also zlib, png, freetype ... to
> the latest versions?
>
> --
> kmx
>
>