Re: [silk] Rapture
On 8/5/07, Suresh Ramasubramanian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If someone was asked who Charles Haynes was, in India, they'd reply Christian. Really? Fascinating. Are they really so ready to pigeonhole people based on nothing more than their name, or their physical appearance? They are *that* simplistic, or there are so few people here who obviously break that pattern? People really assume that I'm Christian? I may need to take steps to make it more obvious that I am not. Maybe carry around Betrand Russell or something. They wouldnt think Jew unless it was totally obvious, with a name like Moses Rabbinowitz Moishe Rabinowitz. Moses is a Christian name :). Practicing, non practicing, actively pagan etc still wouldnt matter. Eh? I don't understand this part. You're saying that people will assume, based on name alone, what religion someone - even a foreigner - is, and it doesn't matter what religion they actually profess or practice? That seems so foreign to me. Now I might assume a *cultural* background based on a name, but I certainly wouldn't assume anything about a person's religious beliefs based solely on their name. (Though if I run into someone named Joi Wolfwomyn I probably will make some assumptions not only about their religious beliefs, but also their probable sexual orientation, and political beliefs.) ps: Given the indian diaspora you'd probably have to move to antarctica or outer space to avoid meeting another Indian, or a sizeable community of them .. Surely, but outside of India it is relatively easy to avoid being a part of such community. For example, it would be easy for me to raise my family here while not being a part of traditional American culture, the presence of Americans in Bangalore notwithstanding. Similarly in America, it would be easy for people raised as Hindus to raise children outside of traditional Hindu culture if they so desired. Would such children be considered Hindu by Indians? What if the parents changed their names and the children spoke only colloquial American English, complete with California accents? Are they Hindu? What is the essence of Hinduism? How is it acquired or lost? Is it purely based on who you are descended from? Is there a cultural element? A religious requirement? If you run through the combinations, who is Hindu? Not born of Hindu parents, culturally non-hindu, no hindu religious practices? (an outsider) Not born of Hindu parents, cuturally non-hindu, religiously practicing hindu? (a foreign born convert) Not born of Hindu parents, culturally hindu, no hindu religious practices? (An indian born child of non-indan born parents, raised in Hindu society, but not a practicing hindu. [is this possible?]) Not born of Hindu parents, culturally hindu, religiously practicing hindu? (Indian born child of foreign parents, raised in Hindu society, follows Hindu religious practice) Born of Hindu parents, culturally non-hindu, no hindu religious practices? (Assimilated american children of assmilated Indian-born parents) Born of Hindu parents, cuturally non-hindu, religiously practicing hindu? (Religious american born children of assimilated indian-born parents) Born of Hindu parents, culturally hindu, no hindu religious practices? (Madhu, e.g.) Born of Hindu parents, culturally hindu, religiously practicing hindu? (Hindu) -- Charles
Re: [silk] Rapture
Charles Haynes [05/08/07 14:49 +0530]: I may need to take steps to make it more obvious that I am not. Maybe carry around Betrand Russell or something. ah, another christian this, from a place where a lot of the christians, especially those from my father's generation or from smaller towns, got their names courtesy a pastor who poked around the local graveyard for dead brits and used their names .. so you have fine old names like o'neill shahapurkar (first name from some dead irishman's grave, and the second name + suffix kar standard maharashtrian practice that makes up surnames based on the town your ancestors came from) Eh? I don't understand this part. You're saying that people will assume, based on name alone, what religion someone - even a foreigner - is, and it doesn't matter what religion they actually profess or practice? That seems so foreign to me. Well, it is based on standard indian well, observation, with hindus called udhay and suresh, muslims called asif and yusuf .. based solely on their name. (Though if I run into someone named Joi Wolfwomyn I probably will make some assumptions not only about their religious beliefs, but also their probable sexual orientation, and political beliefs.) the only Joi I've run into is surnamed Ito, and he is a fun guy to meet for all that he is a compulsive blogger Surely, but outside of India it is relatively easy to avoid being a part of such community. For example, it would be easy for me to raise my family here while not being a part of traditional American culture, the presence of Americans in Bangalore notwithstanding. Not so easy for an indian outside india, I assure you - if only because other indians actively seek you out and drag you kicking and screaming if necessary into the local community Not born of Hindu parents, culturally non-hindu, no hindu religious practices? (an outsider) still an outsider, and probably a hare krishna or random other guru camp follower Not born of Hindu parents, cuturally non-hindu, religiously practicing hindu? (a foreign born convert) ditto ++ Not born of Hindu parents, culturally hindu, no hindu religious practices? (An indian born child of non-indan born parents, raised in Hindu society, but not a practicing hindu. [is this possible?]) well he could be a sikh, or a jain or something (quite likely a sikh) - those religions are nominally separate from hinduism though rooted in it Not born of Hindu parents, culturally hindu, religiously practicing hindu? (Indian born child of foreign parents, raised in Hindu society, follows Hindu religious practice) very rare indeed Born of Hindu parents, culturally non-hindu, no hindu religious practices? (Assimilated american children of assmilated Indian-born parents) hindu, to the max. even if he converts, whereupon his relatives regard him as a potential prodigal son to welcome back into the fold sooner or later Born of Hindu parents, cuturally non-hindu, religiously practicing hindu? (Religious american born children of assimilated indian-born parents) hindu Born of Hindu parents, culturally hindu, no hindu religious practices? (Madhu, e.g.) hindu. all of us fake hindusout here on silk.. madhu, me, udhay etc - still hindu. and at least some of us are brahmins - supposed to be priests and saddled with extra rituals as a result, nominally at least. Born of Hindu parents, culturally hindu, religiously practicing hindu? (Hindu) yup
Re: [silk] Rapture
--- Madhu Menon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are also the Hinduism is a way of life people who tell me that I can be a Hindu despite my atheism, but I've never been able to get a straight answer from anyone about what exactly that way of life entails. I begin to wonder whether merely breathing is sufficient. Pretty single-minded, aren't they? I did get something approaching an answer from one of the 'way of life' folks - if you are aware of Hindu beliefs, and practice dharma and ahimsa, you are a Hindu. Even if you are an atheist. So what does that make people who don't practice dharma or ahimsa, and are still self-identified Hindus? You guessed it: misguided, but still Hindus. Apparently to him, you can't not be Hindu if you're Indian, and anyone else who wants to join in is welcome too. Huh. cheers, Divya
Re: [silk] Rapture
--- Madhu Menon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are also the Hinduism is a way of life people who tell me that I can be a Hindu despite my atheism, but I've never been able to get a straight answer from anyone about what exactly that way of life entails. Atheism and religious membership need not be mutually exclusive. It depends on how atheism is defined; a common definition is non-belief in a personal god. The Advaita vedanta school of Hinduism, IMO, for all practical purposes espouses athesim. So does Zen Buddhism. So, an Advitan could be considered as both a hindu and an atheist. shyam Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mailp=graduation+giftscs=bz
Re: [silk] Rapture
--- Madhu Menon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are also the Hinduism is a way of life people I find it sometimes nice that Hinduism seems so all-embracing and sometimes stifling...I too am working out whether I am really a Hindu or not. But going by the responses on this thread, unless I actively embaras Islam (as the conversion certificate of a friend said) rind called myself Salima Bano or something like that, I guess I am a Hindu for a lifetime...and even then, am likely to be regarded as a straying Hindu for the rest of my life. This feeling is further reinforced by the fact that many Christian families who converted any time between a few to a few hundred years ago, still mainitaining their Hindu names and some of the religious customs too...many Indian Christian weddings include the thali or mangal sutra' amongst the wedding ceremonies, apart from the wedding ring. Deepa. On 8/5/07, Shyam Visweswaran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Madhu Menon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are also the Hinduism is a way of life people who tell me that I can be a Hindu despite my atheism, but I've never been able to get a straight answer from anyone about what exactly that way of life entails. Atheism and religious membership need not be mutually exclusive. It depends on how atheism is defined; a common definition is non-belief in a personal god. The Advaita vedanta school of Hinduism, IMO, for all practical purposes espouses athesim. So does Zen Buddhism. So, an Advitan could be considered as both a hindu and an atheist. shyam Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mailp=graduation+giftscs=bz
Re: [silk] Rapture
Hinduism was never one religion, and the collection of people who were called Hindus were never dogmatic about the identity of God, and never had a book that identified God for them. Hindus were never (IMO) required to identify themselves as a religion and name their God until they were challenged by newer faiths like Christianity and Islam. I believe there was a reverse process of classifying Hindus as being different - pagans or kafirs whose Gods were false. Hinduism, which is possibly a collection of animistic beliefs refined by some nifty life-theories, is non-unified in nature and does not commit itself to either rejecting God or accepting and identifying God as one defined entity. It allows laxity that is a threat to the disciplined dogma of Christianity and Islam. Hinduism allows for, and explains (in great detail) the means to achieve happiness and life without guilt for the worst offender, and a denier of God. To a person who has been taught that this is just plain wrong, Hindu belief is a problem. But to others, who get no joy from whatever they are taught to believe, Hindu laxity offers freedom of thought that might have been considered impossible in organized religion. I believe that Hinduism has brought a degree of morality among Hindus by collecting up folklore over the centuries that define what is right and what is wrong. However some of the stuff that is said to be right is not right. But then again all Hindu knowledge is offered as is in a take it or leave it manner. if you don't like it you can dump it. God will not, and cannot punish you for being yourself. shiv I find it sometimes nice that Hinduism seems so all-embracing and sometimes stifling...I too am working out whether I am really a Hindu or not.
Re: [silk] Fwd: [jivika] Fwd: [indiathinkersnet] Bangalore: The rising divorce rate in the IT sector
On 8/5/07, Kiran Jonnalagadda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Viewing the computer for long hours has proven to cause impotency, says Pramila Nesargi, chairperson of the Karnataka State Women's Commission. We are a transition generation; the husbands want to be like their fathers, the wives thankfully don't have to take it like their mothers - they are financially free. Stress, lack of time at home, yada yada yada is just icing on the cake. The next generation will IMO handle this much better. Cheeni
Re: [silk] Fwd: [jivika] Fwd: [indiathinkersnet] Bangalore: The rising divorce rate in the IT sector
On 8/5/07, Srini Ramakrishnan wrote: The next generation will IMO handle this much better. The next generation will probably decide to be single. Women will finally figure out (just like they have done in europe) that they dont need a man anymore. I have a couple of cousins who are slaving like fools to save money for their daughters marriage (their daughters are less than 10 years old now...)... in some misplaced belief that 15 years hence, their kids will actually listen to them.
Re: [silk] Rapture
On 8/5/07, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: Not so easy for an indian outside india, I assure you - if only because other indians actively seek you out and drag you kicking and screaming if necessary into the local community i had this neigbour for a while, a kenyan-born indian. he had this thing going with a black kenyan girl. his family cut him off (financially), and then cut him of socially. the guy retaliated by becoming a born-again christian,and moving into a flat (next door) with the girl in question. one day he calls me for dinner and amid his preaching i noticed that he was forcing himself to eat a fillet of beef (he looked like he was about to throw up), it wasnt that the beef was bad, (i was eating the other fillet) but he was trying to make himself to do something out of the ordinary. the kenyan girl left him after a while, and the guy had no choice then but to rever back to his family - he had no social network, nor a stable financial outlook (to buy into a new social network), he did have his born again church (an avenue to build new social contacts...) but the sacrifices (eating beef for example) required were too alien for him. he went back to his family.
Re: [silk] Fwd: [jivika] Fwd: [indiathinkersnet] Bangalore: The rising divorce rate in the IT sector
On Sun, Aug 05, 2007 at 10:41:34PM +0300, ashok _ wrote: The next generation will probably decide to be single. Women will finally figure out (just like they have done in europe) that they dont need a man Notice the birth rate in Europe. Demographics is hitting us hard, and birth rate has been going down hereabouts for some 100+ odd years. You definitely do not want to do it overnight. anymore. I have a couple of cousins who are slaving like fools to save money for their daughters marriage (their daughters are less than 10 years old now...)... in some misplaced belief that 15 years hence, their kids will actually listen to them. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
Re: [silk] Fwd: [jivika] Fwd: [indiathinkersnet] Bangalore: The rising divorce rate in the IT sector
Parents slaving for their daughter's wedding...which might end in a divorce!!! someone very wise said: forget about the wedding, it is the marriage that is more important. We Indians are highly goal focused rather than process oreinted-I suspect that old fashioned contempt for dating also has to do with intolerance for ambiguity and low risk tolerance ather than mere morality. Of course, this is easier to say in hindsight, but as a divorced woman in the early 90s when it was less prevalent/fashionable/acceptable to admit one's immaturity or flawed decision-making, I can truly say that the women who did not meet THE ONE before they hit 30 were blessed whether they knew it or not. And not just for financial reasons. 2007/8/5, ashok _ [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 8/5/07, Srini Ramakrishnan wrote: The next generation will IMO handle this much better. The next generation will probably decide to be single. Women will finally figure out (just like they have done in europe) that they dont need a man anymore. I have a couple of cousins who are slaving like fools to save money for their daughters marriage (their daughters are less than 10 years old now...)... in some misplaced belief that 15 years hence, their kids will actually listen to them.
Re: [silk] Rapture
On Sunday 05 Aug 2007 2:49 pm, Charles Haynes wrote: Really? Fascinating. Are they really so ready to pigeonhole people based on nothing more than their name, or their physical appearance? They are *that* simplistic, Yes they are simplistic and ready to pigeonhole people _IF_ they are aware enough to be able to differentiate between non-Hindu and Hindu. There are probably humongous numbers of Hindus who cannot tell the difference. I actually did a little poll of people whom I thought were largely uneducated - and asked them who they were. Very few were able to call themselves Hindu, although they did identify themselves as worshippers of Hindu Gods. They were, however able to differentiate themselves from Muslims and those who pray to Christ. One of the people I polled was only able to describe himself and his people as people (janagalu - in Kannada) Eh? I don't understand this part. You're saying that people will assume, based on name alone, Yes- subject to awareness that differences in religion exist. I believe that the awareness Christianity and Islam brought to Hindus is that religion too, and God/s worshipped can be a basis for differentiation, in addition to status, caste, language, sexual color etc which were known methods of differentiation in India in the pre-Christian era. (my views) Similarly in America, it would be easy for people raised as Hindus to raise children outside of traditional Hindu culture if they so desired. Would such children be considered Hindu by Indians? What if the parents changed their names and the children spoke only colloquial American English, complete with California accents? Are they Hindu? Hindus rarely move abroad in isolation. They take at least a wife, or they return for a wife. In turn they produce Hindu children. Hindus (and Sikhs, and Jains) who move abroad take with them a cultural photograph of life as they knew it when they left and take greater pains than the average Hindu in India to preserve what they recall as their culture. Their attitudes, social mores and fervor remain stuck in a time warp while the culture in India moves on. Interviews with grown up children of Indian Americans who are sent to India to soak up Indian culture testify to this fact. Girls get sent to India with the advice that In India girls wear modest clothes and do not wantonly mix with boys. The Indian American girl comes to India expecting that and is surprised to find that her parents got it all wrong, and were referring to 30 years ago. In my mother's generation it was important for a young lady to learn Carnatic classical music or dance. For me, living in India, it is no longer considered necessary for a girl of my daughter's generation to do that. However, for my brother's children, born in the US, it has been made necessary for them to retain Hindu culture by training girls in classical music and dance. The result is that you get to hear of Indian college girls studying engineering, while it is the Indian-American girls who are doing their Arangetram. The (Arangetram being a kind of formalized first public performance of dance indicating that the girl is now a fully trained bharatanatyam dancer.) What is the essence of Hinduism? How is it acquired or lost? Is it purely based on who you are descended from? Is there a cultural element? A religious requirement? If you run through the combinations, who is Hindu? Nobody has answered this question in an uncontroversial way. IOW the last word has yet to be written on this. I try to reach some conclusions by saying what I think and seeing if that pings someone into responding. shiv
Re: [silk] Organizing a conference like TED in India
I wasn't being flippant when I mentioned Barcamp Bangalore earlier in this thread. The event has evolved significantly in its four iterations, turning into an incubator of sorts -- we're going to have two spin-off events later this year, focusing on e-governance and startups, in addition to Barcamp Bangalore 5. As far as I can tell, there's no other place like Barcamp Bangalore in India to test a new idea for an event. On 02-Aug-07, at 4:18 PM, Mahesh Murthy wrote: Who would we like to have as speakers? What would set this apart? There's a Demo-like thing called Proto that happens every 6 months and another on Innovation that's happening in Blr soon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of sriram balasubramaniam Sent: 02 August 2007 15:43 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: [silk] Organizing a conference like TED in India I'm a huge fan of the TED conferences. (www.ted.com) I've been thinking of an event similar to TED that could be held in India. I contacted Udhay about this, since a guy who collects people is probably the most suited for this endeavor. Here are some thoughts: The conference lasts for 3 days All the Silksters meet in India. We invite 20 to 30 speakers from our networks Focus on folks from technology, life sciences, arts, music... Gives speakers and silksters to interact and discuss issues of interest Open only to silksters Sponsors fund the event, and pony up $$$ for speaker travel and stay In other words, a closed conference for Silksters. We could think of an invite-only list too, like TED, and charge a nominal fee to cover costs. Udhay felt that this could be a good addition to FOU camp. Thoughts? Sriram
Re: [silk] Fwd: [jivika] Fwd: [indiathinkers net] Bangalore: The risingdivorce rate in the IT sector
On Sunday 05 Aug 2007 11:42 pm, Srini Ramakrishnan wrote: We are a transition generation; the husbands want to be like their fathers, the wives thankfully don't have to take it like their mothers - they are financially free. Stress, lack of time at home, yada yada yada is just icing on the cake. The next generation will IMO handle this much better. With respect you represent a very small subset of Indians. If the report is accurate, this disease of separation and stress affects an unusually large percentage of this subset. I suspect that this problem will get handled in a typically Indian way, with girls or boys who want a stable marriage opting out of marrying partners who are seen to be well off but in jobs with a reputation for long hours. Increasingly there will be marriages of desperation because there is social (family) pressure) to marry and the wealthy boy will marry girl from poor family because both families cut corners and ignore obvious incompatibilities. But the marriage may last for economic reasons with the girl becoming the typical Indian woman who swallows a lot of crap for the sake of husband and family. We might possibly end up with a new stereotype in 25 years - the unmarried, divorced wealthy bachelor/spinster creating a new niche for himself or herself in Indian society. Alternatively, Indians may just start asking for more free time and rights, as predicted by this Homer cartoon on Youtube Homer goes to India http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_P_BpGncKQ shiv
Re: [silk] Fwd: [jivika] Fwd: [indiathinkers net] Bangalore: The risingdivorce rate in the IT sector
Homer goes to India http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_P_BpGncKQ shiv Whooops - sorry wrong cartoon This one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9_iQim8Mtw
Re: [silk] Fwd: [jivika] Fwd: [indiathinkersnet] Bangalore: The risingdivorce rate in the IT sector
On 8/6/2007 8:32 AM, shiv sastry wrote: Homer goes to India http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_P_BpGncKQ shiv Whooops - sorry wrong cartoon This one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9_iQim8Mtw Kiss Kiss Bang Bangalore. yup .. good one that.
[silk] It'd have been cheaper to buy him a couple of dulcolax pills ..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6932216.stm Indian suspect in banana ordeal An Indian suspect was forced by police to eat 50 bananas as a laxative, to retrieve a necklace he was accused of stealing and swallowing. When the bananas failed to produce the desired effect, police fed Sheikh Mohsin rice, chicken and local bread. Finally the necklace, which appeared on an X-ray taken on the suspect, was excreted and retrieved. Mr Mohsin will appear in court on Monday in the eastern city of Calcutta, and could face a prison sentence. Police say he snatched a gold necklace worth £550 ($1,100) from a woman as she shopped for toys on Saturday. When cornered by police, he swallowed the necklace. The suspect was fed 50 bananas on doctor's advice, after the X-ray dealt a blow to his denials. But only after a further meal did he yield the necklace, Calcutta police deputy commissioner Gyanwant Singh told AFP news agency. A sweeper was paid to retrieve the exhibit from the toilet. Mr Mohsin was asked to wash it.
[silk] Brother, can you spare...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/07/27/DIME.TMP 'I didn't eat and I didn't sleep' Coin dealer flies dime worth $1.9 million to NYC John Feigenbaum flew out of San Jose this week in first class, with flip-flops on his feet, a T-shirt on his back and a dime worth $1.9 million in his pocket. It was the most expensive dime ever to pass through San Jose. That's because it is the most expensive dime in the history of dimes. All the way across the country I didn't sleep,'' Feigenbaum said. I didn't eat and I didn't sleep. You wouldn't, either.'' Feigenbaum is a rare coin dealer, and the dime he was carrying across the country, from San Jose to New York, is an 1894-S dime, one of only nine known to exist, and one of only 24 known to be coined that year in San Francisco. It was his job to pick up the dime from the seller's vault, in Oakland, and deliver the dime to the buyer's vault, in midtown Manhattan. The person who bought the dime does not want the world to know who he is. The person who sold the dime is Oakland businessman Daniel Rosenthal, who was unavailable for comment, perhaps because a person newly in possession of $1.9 million has got better things to do than answer a lot of questions. But the dime's cross-country trip was the stuff of intrigue, of that there is no mistake. The logistics of moving a $1.9 million dime across the country turn out to be at least as staggering as the notion of paying $1.9 million for a dime. It was on Monday afternoon that Feigenbaum, a 38-year-old coin dealer from Virginia Beach, donned his best grubby clothes to meet the seller's representative at an Oakland bank vault. Feigenbaum was slumming it so as not to attract attention, he said. There's no reason to dress up in a suit and make a big production,'' he said. You don't want to stand out.'' Feigenbaum put the dime, encased in a 3-inch-square block of plastic, in his pocket and, accompanied by a security guard, drove in an ordinary sedan directly to San Jose airport to catch the red-eye to Newark. The overnight flight, he said, was the only way to make sure the dime would be in New York by the time the buyer's bank opened in the morning. People who pay $1.9 million for dimes do not like to be kept waiting for them. Feigenbaum had purchased a coach ticket, to avoid suspicion, but found himself upgraded to first class. That was a worry, because people in flip-flops, T-shirts and grubby jeans do not regularly ride in first class. But it would have been more suspicious to decline a free upgrade. So Feigenbaum forced himself to sit in first class, where he found himself to be the only passenger in flip-flops. He was too nervous to sleep, he said. He did not watch the in-flight movie, which was Firehouse Dog.'' He turned down a Reuben sandwich and sensibly declined all offers of alcoholic beverages. Shortly after boarding the plane, he transferred the dime from his pants pocket to his briefcase. I was worried that the dime might fall out of my pocket while I was sitting down,'' Feigenbaum said. All across the country, Feigenbaum kept checking to make sure the dime was safe by reaching into his briefcase to feel for it. Feigenbaum did not actually take the dime out of his briefcase, as it is suspicious to stare at dimes. He does recall fishing around --somewhere over the Rockies, over the Midwest, and over the Alleghenies -- for the dime. For the rest of the flight, he kept his flip-flopped foot planted on the briefcase and his eyes wide open. At Newark airport, he was met by another security guard in another ordinary sedan. The two men drove to Manhattan, arriving an hour before the opening of the buyer's bank vault. The buyer was waiting at the curb for Feigenbaum, however. With an hour to kill, the two men went into a nearby Starbucks. Neither man dared to take out the dime and look at it. They sipped their beverages and stared at their watches. At 9 a.m., the vault opened. The two men and the guard went inside and, for the first time, the buyer got to hold his dime. The buyer spent about half an hour looking at it, Feigenbaum said, which worked out to 15 minutes for heads and 15 minutes for tails. He told Feigenbaum he had bought it strictly as an investment and did not intend to spend it, as there is no longer anything to buy in New York for 10 cents. Perhaps, though, the dime is again fated to be locked away in a bank vault as a penalty for being ugly. The coin is known as a Barber-style dime, bearing a ghastly likeness of Madam Liberty on the front and a boring wreath of corn and wheat and the words one dime on the back. The $1.9 million dime was produced at the stately Old Mint on Fifth Street, next to the doughnut place. It's a long-shuttered stone building whose front steps are primarily used these days by homeless people on their lunch break. (The building is set to become a museum soon,
Re: [silk] Fwd: [jivika] Fwd: [indiathinkers net] Bangalore: The risingdivorce rate in the IT sector
On Monday 06 Aug 2007 2:06 am, Radhika, Y. wrote: We Indians are highly goal focused rather than process oreinted-I suspect that old fashioned contempt for dating also has to do with intolerance for ambiguity and low risk tolerance ather than mere morality Control of male and female sexuality is important for the preservation of family wealth. When wealth becomes relatively assured, such control of sexuality becomes redundant. But, as Eugen has pointed out, birth rates have fallen in such societies for various reasons. I am guessing that birth rates will fall among the subset of Indians who belong to the IT sector but continue to remain high among others. In other words, the IT sector is likely to become synonymous with long hours, high salary, no family - unless something changes. shiv
Re: [silk] Fwd: [jivika] Fwd: [indiathinkers net] Bangalore: The risingdivorce rate in the IT sector
shiv sastry wrote [at 09:09 AM 8/6/2007] : In other words, the IT sector is likely to become synonymous with long hours, high salary, no family - unless something changes. As the IT worker demographics change (as the typical IT worker becomes 30+ instead of 25- like today) the desire for the mythical construct called a life will increase. I'm already seeing this happening with an increasing number of people, myself included. Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
Re: [silk] Fwd: [jivika] Fwd: [indiathinkers net] Bangalore: Therisingdivorce rate in the IT sec tor
On Monday 06 Aug 2007 9:15 am, Udhay Shankar N wrote: As the IT worker demographics change (as the typical IT worker becomes 30+ instead of 25- like today) the desire for the mythical construct called a life will increase. Absolutely. One mythical construct that the IT sector started out with was the premise of indestructibility and immortality - both of which occur in large doses among youth. With family often guiding career choices, and family support to young IT professionals who work long hours, young IT professionals offer everything that the Indian family desires. Financial security and elevated status for parents, and a high ranking in the marriage market. But as these people grow older the cares of life kick in. The need for time with children, the need to control hypertension, diabetes, and the wearing out of the novelty and excitement (and status) of foreign travel. The solution seems fairly simple. More time off. But more time off makes someone else more efficient and cheaper. That someone else is often someone younger, unmarried, with family support. Culturally Indians, (Hindus in particular) do not have a concept of getting even one day off a week. Hindus do not close shops on any day, and do not give maidservants a day off, and we (non-shopowning non maidservants) will ourselves work all days without a break. Traditional Hindu lifestyles did however allow for unscheduled breaks like family functions and festivals. But while the IT professional may work weekends, he does not get informal time off for a million festivals. The system must change. shiv
[silk] Global Warming Alarmists?
Newsweek Disgrace: 'Global-Warming Deniers: A Well-Funded Machine' By Noel Sheppard | August 5, 2007 - 13:43 ET Manmade global warming alarmism took a disgraceful turn for the worse this weekend when Newsweek published a lengthy cover-story repeatedly calling skeptics deniers that are funded by oil companies and other industries with a vested interest in obfuscating the truth. In fact, the piece several times suggested that publishing articles skeptical of man's role in climate change is akin to misleading Americans about the dangers of smoking. Despicably titled Global-Warming Deniers: A Well-Funded Machine, the article painted a picture of an evil cabal whose goal is to thwart science at the detriment of the environment and the benefit of their wallets. Worse still, the piece's many authors painted every skeptical scientific report they referred to as being part of this cabal while including absolutely no historical temperature data to prove that today's global temperatures are in any way abnormal. Maybe most disingenuous, there wasn't one word given to how much money corporations and entities with a vested interest in advancing the alarmism are spending, or who they are. Yet, in the very first paragraph, one of the main participants in this evil cabal was identified (emphasis added throughout): As [Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-California)] left a meeting with the head of the international climate panel, however, a staffer had some news for her. A conservative think tank long funded by ExxonMobil, she told Boxer, had offered scientists $10,000 to write articles undercutting the new [IPCC] report and the computer-based climate models it is based on. I realized, says Boxer, there was a movement behind this that just wasn't giving up. But that was just the beginning: Since the late 1980s, this well-coordinated, well-funded campaign by contrarian scientists, free-market think tanks and industry has created a paralyzing fog of doubt around climate change. Through advertisements, op-eds, lobbying and media attention, greenhouse doubters (they hate being called deniers) argued first that the world is not warming; measurements indicating otherwise are flawed, they said. Then they claimed that any warming is natural, not caused by human activities. Now they contend that the looming warming will be minuscule and harmless. They patterned what they did after the tobacco industry, says former senator Tim Wirth, who spearheaded environmental issues as an under secretary of State in the Clinton administration. Both figured, sow enough doubt, call the science uncertain and in dispute. That's had a huge impact on both the public and Congress. How utterly disgraceful. So, scientists all around the world who have devoted their lives and their careers to studying and writing about climate and related issues who don't feel man can or is impacting such are akin to folks who misled the public about the potential dangers of cigarette smoking. How disgusting. Frankly, these journalists should be asked by every skeptical scientist on the planet for an immediate apology. Sadly, as one won't likely be forthcoming, these folks were just getting warmed up with their disgraceful accusations: As soon as the scientific community began to come together on the science of climate change, the pushback began, says historian Naomi Oreskes of the University of California, San Diego. Individual companies and industry associations-representing petroleum, steel, autos and utilities, for instance-formed lobbying groups with names like the Global Climate Coalition and the Information Council on the Environment. ICE's game plan called for enlisting greenhouse doubters to reposition global warming as theory rather than fact, and to sow doubt about climate research just as cigarette makers had about smoking research. Disgusting. But it gets worse as the authors then began to personally attack prominent skeptics: In what would become a key tactic of the denial machine-think tanks linking up with like-minded, contrarian researchers-the report was endorsed in a letter to President George H.W. Bush by MIT meteorologist Richard Lindzen. Lindzen, whose parents had fled Hitler's Germany, is described by old friends as the kind of man who, if you're in the minority, opts to be with you. I thought it was important to make it clear that the science was at an early and primitive stage and that there was little basis for consensus and much reason for skepticism, he told Scientific American magazine. I did feel a moral obligation. [...] Groups that opposed greenhouse curbs ramped up. They settled on the 'science isn't there' argument because they didn't believe they'd be able to convince the public to do nothing if climate change were real, says David Goldston, who served as Republican chief of staff for the House of Representatives science committee until 2006. Industry found a friend in Patrick Michaels, a climatologist at the
