[SLUG] mixed case web tree
I have a web user who seems to insist on using mIxEd caSE files/tree... he asked me to symlink '/path/lowercase' to real '/path/LOWERCASE' will that work properly, what do you fellow think ? Original Message We're a little concerned about the capitalisation issues with www.dom.tld/ABC/... Would it be possible to get a link of some sort (like a symbolic link) called abc linking to the ABC directory, so that either will work? -- -- Voytek -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] mixed case web tree
On Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 22:35:50 +1100, Voytek Eymont wrote: I have a web user who seems to insist on using mIxEd caSE files/tree... he asked me to symlink '/path/lowercase' to real '/path/LOWERCASE' will that work properly, what do you fellow think ? No reason why it shouldn't work. There are probably also funky apache rules you could use to do something as well. Benno -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] mixed case web tree
Since linux treats lowercase and LOWERCASE as seperate items there's no reason why this wouldn't work. An easier thing (ie less work for you) would be to use an apache mod_rewrite rule on the url. Whip out your regular expressions and convert uppercase strings to lowercase (or vice versa if you need). Just check out the apache manual for tips on how to write them (so long as your webserver has mod_rewrite enabled of course) HTH Paul Voytek Eymont wrote: I have a web user who seems to insist on using mIxEd caSE files/tree... he asked me to symlink '/path/lowercase' to real '/path/LOWERCASE' will that work properly, what do you fellow think ? Original Message We're a little concerned about the capitalisation issues with www.dom.tld/ABC/... Would it be possible to get a link of some sort (like a symbolic link) called abc linking to the ABC directory, so that either will work? -- -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] [OT] electronics parts
Hi, I'm working on an electronic project that is linux related in that I'm using a linux box to communicate with an external sensing circuit through ethernet (TINI for those who know the system). I've got a circuit diagram and need to build an interfacing circuit. The Problem: I need to E96 series resistors, that is, resistors that are of specific value and precision. I can buy them at $4 each and order a minimum of 5, that's $20 per resistore that I need and I need 20 or so. It may be a long shot but does anyone know where the e96 series are stocked. I've tried RS components, they're the ones that sell me a minimum of 5. So if you know of any place that stocks these resistors and is willing to sell singly, please drop me a line Here is a list of some of the parts I need: R1, R3: 430k, 3W, 5%, Power Resistor R2, R4: 34k, 1/4W 5%, Resistor R7: 53k6, 1/4W 1%, Metal Resistor R8: 60k4, 1/4W 1%, Metal Resistor R9: 464k, 1/4W 1%, Metal Resistor R5: 464k, 1/4W 5%, Resistor R10: 825k, 1/4W 1%, Metal Resistor R11: 226k, 1/4W 1%, Metal Resistor thanks, kind regards, Luke -- / / _ /_ /_/ / /= 0421 276 282 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] mixed case web tree
turn on mod_speling Dean On Tue, February 8, 2005 10:35 pm, Voytek Eymont said: I have a web user who seems to insist on using mIxEd caSE files/tree... he asked me to symlink '/path/lowercase' to real '/path/LOWERCASE' will that work properly, what do you fellow think ? Original Message We're a little concerned about the capitalisation issues with www.dom.tld/ABC/... Would it be possible to get a link of some sort (like a symbolic link) called abc linking to the ABC directory, so that either will work? -- -- Voytek -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] [OT] electronics parts
Jaycars supplies all the resistors you've mentioned, and at a much better price. For the metal film resistors, they only supply them in 1/2 watt but that doesn't matter. They cost 38c for a pack of 8, a much better price i think. check out http://www.jaycar.com.au/ for a local shop, or to order online. On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 22:17:02 +1030, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm working on an electronic project that is linux related in that I'm using a linux box to communicate with an external sensing circuit through ethernet (TINI for those who know the system). I've got a circuit diagram and need to build an interfacing circuit. The Problem: I need to E96 series resistors, that is, resistors that are of specific value and precision. I can buy them at $4 each and order a minimum of 5, that's $20 per resistore that I need and I need 20 or so. It may be a long shot but does anyone know where the e96 series are stocked. I've tried RS components, they're the ones that sell me a minimum of 5. So if you know of any place that stocks these resistors and is willing to sell singly, please drop me a line Here is a list of some of the parts I need: R1, R3: 430k, 3W, 5%, Power Resistor R2, R4: 34k, 1/4W 5%, Resistor R7: 53k6, 1/4W 1%, Metal Resistor R8: 60k4, 1/4W 1%, Metal Resistor R9: 464k, 1/4W 1%, Metal Resistor R5: 464k, 1/4W 5%, Resistor R10: 825k, 1/4W 1%, Metal Resistor R11: 226k, 1/4W 1%, Metal Resistor thanks, kind regards, Luke -- / / _ /_ /_/ / /= 0421 276 282 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- Menno Schaaf aka ginji irc.austnet.org #gentoo #linux-help irc.ifirc.net #linux -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Perl Training courses
Passed on on behalf of Jacinta Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED], all questions should be directed to her, not me. ;) - G'day SLUG members, Once again Perl Training Australia is running our very popular Welcome to Perl courses in Sydney. These introductory courses are designed to cover everything you need to know to start writing (or maintaining) quite complex Perl programs. Of course, practice makes perfect. Perl Training Australia is very happy to offer a discount to SLUG members and your coworkers. Mention SLUG when you book to get the prices and early bird special date as listed below: Course Course Date Early Bird Price - Introduction to Perl 15-16 Mar 200518 Feb 2005 $1050 Intermediate Perl 17-18 Mar 200518 Feb 2005 $1050 For more information and to book your places visit: http://www.perltraining.com.au/bookings.html *Early Bird Special* Book and pay before the Early Bird date to receive a free book (of your choice) per person, per course. Books can be selected from: http://www.perltraining.com.au/books.html *Group Bookings* Book three or more people on the same course(s) at the same time and receive a further discount of $50 per person, per course. Please note that the early bird date for everyone else is this Friday, 11th February. Thus if you want to take advantage of both the extended early bird date and the SLUG discount, you must mention SLUG when you book. All the very best, Jacinta -- (`-''-/).___..--''`-._ | Jacinta Richardson | `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training Australia| (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +61 3 9354 6001| _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | www.perltraining.com.au | -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] a nice question
I want to tar a huge file (nearly 3gig) without slowing my server response. If I use nice, does that effectively mean that the normal system process responses will not be slowed? The man page says that the default nice is 10... does it make any difference how much nice? or is it just a case of or ? thanks... David. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] a nice question
quote who=David I want to tar a huge file (nearly 3gig) without slowing my server response. (Does that mean you want to put one file in a tar? That doesn't make sense, tar is for mushing files together into an archive. Do you mean that you want to gzip a file? You don't need to tar *and* gzip to compress a single file.) If I use nice, does that effectively mean that the normal system process responses will not be slowed? For CPU, sure (which will help if you're gzipping), but there's still a heck of a lot of disk IO going on, which will affect your server. - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2005: Canberra, Australiahttp://linux.conf.au/ Basically my philosophy on release management is that it should be like police brutality. - Maciej Stachowiak -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Incremental Backup Script
Can anyone point me to a good backup script or program that does incremental backups? I have a particluar directory I want to backup to an external firewire drive every night. cheers -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Streaming media servers
G'day... Wondering if anyone can recommend a streaming media server for Linux. Needs to be able to serve in Windows Media format as well as for other players on other platforms (RealPlayer?). Been searching through freshmeat and SourceForge with little luck. All help appreciated... Regards, Michael S. E. Kraus B. Info. Tech. (CQU), Dip. Business (Computing) Software Developer - Wild Technology Pty Ltd --- Apologies for any lines after this point - disclaimer added by server --- Wild Technology Pty Ltd , ABN 98 091 470 692 Sales - Ground Floor, 265/8 Lachlan Street, Waterloo NSW 2017 Admin - Level 4 Tiara, 306/9 Crystal Street, Waterloo NSW 2017 Telephone 1300-13-9453 | Facsimile 1300-88-9453 http://www.wildtechnology.net DISCLAIMER CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this email message and any attachments may be confidential information and may also be the subject of client legal - legal professional privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited. This email and any attachments are also subject to copyright. No part of them may be reproduced, adapted or transmitted without the written permission of the copyright owner. If you have received this email in error, please immediately advise the sender by return email and delete the message from your system. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Streaming media servers
quote who=Michael Kraus Wondering if anyone can recommend a streaming media server for Linux. Needs to be able to serve in Windows Media format as well as for other players on other platforms (RealPlayer?). Been searching through freshmeat and SourceForge with little luck. www.flumotion.net, which is Free, but has commercial support backing and will have proprietary plugins for Windows Media (dunno about Real, that's harder, because Real aren't big on licensing their codecs), but it fully supports Free codecs out of the box, such as OGG Theora/Vorbis. :-) I am using it to provide streaming for the upcoming linux.conf.au and Ubuntu Down Under conferences. Very likely that we'll be able to stream SLUG events soon, too. - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2005: Canberra, Australiahttp://linux.conf.au/ The GPL is good. Use it. Don't be silly. - Michael Meeks -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] a nice question
On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 10:45:21AM +1100, Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=David I want to tar a huge file (nearly 3gig) without slowing my server response. (Does that mean you want to put one file in a tar? That doesn't make sense, tar is for mushing files together into an archive. Do you mean that you want to gzip a file? You don't need to tar *and* gzip to compress a single file.) It means a directory which, when tarred, will create a huge file. I should have been more precise, but I thought it was obvious :-) If I use nice, does that effectively mean that the normal system process responses will not be slowed? For CPU, sure (which will help if you're gzipping), but there's still a heck of a lot of disk IO going on, which will affect your server. I guess this is the point of the question. Is there a way of prioritising so that the effect of tar running is minimised. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Streaming media servers
Hi, I've not actually used it as a streaming server, but videolan (http://www.videolan.org/) was designed for exactly that purpose... Let us know how you get on! Rob. On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 10:59:31 +1100, Michael Kraus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day... Wondering if anyone can recommend a streaming media server for Linux. Needs to be able to serve in Windows Media format as well as for other players on other platforms (RealPlayer?). Been searching through freshmeat and SourceForge with little luck. All help appreciated... Regards, Michael S. E. Kraus B. Info. Tech. (CQU), Dip. Business (Computing) Software Developer - Wild Technology Pty Ltd --- Apologies for any lines after this point - disclaimer added by server --- Wild Technology Pty Ltd , ABN 98 091 470 692 Sales - Ground Floor, 265/8 Lachlan Street, Waterloo NSW 2017 Admin - Level 4 Tiara, 306/9 Crystal Street, Waterloo NSW 2017 Telephone 1300-13-9453 | Facsimile 1300-88-9453 http://www.wildtechnology.net DISCLAIMER CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this email message and any attachments may be confidential information and may also be the subject of client legal - legal professional privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited. This email and any attachments are also subject to copyright. No part of them may be reproduced, adapted or transmitted without the written permission of the copyright owner. If you have received this email in error, please immediately advise the sender by return email and delete the message from your system. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- Rob Sharp e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: quannum.co.uk j: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Streaming media servers
Michael Kraus wrote: G'day... Wondering if anyone can recommend a streaming media server for Linux. Needs to be able to serve in Windows Media format as well as for other players on other platforms (RealPlayer?). Been searching through freshmeat and SourceForge with little luck. You could also try http://helixcommunity.org/. The open source version of helix Server will play REAL streaming protocols, but if you wanted to stream quicktime and Windows Media, you have to buy the commercial version :(. I've been running the commericial version of Helix Server on Linux for a client of mine - Very easy to set up and run. All help appreciated... Regards, Michael S. E. Kraus B. Info. Tech. (CQU), Dip. Business (Computing) Software Developer - Wild Technology Pty Ltd --- Apologies for any lines after this point - disclaimer added by server --- Wild Technology Pty Ltd , ABN 98 091 470 692 Sales - Ground Floor, 265/8 Lachlan Street, Waterloo NSW 2017 Admin - Level 4 Tiara, 306/9 Crystal Street, Waterloo NSW 2017 Telephone 1300-13-9453 | Facsimile 1300-88-9453 http://www.wildtechnology.net DISCLAIMER CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this email message and any attachments may be confidential information and may also be the subject of client legal - legal professional privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited. This email and any attachments are also subject to copyright. No part of them may be reproduced, adapted or transmitted without the written permission of the copyright owner. If you have received this email in error, please immediately advise the sender by return email and delete the message from your system. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Incremental Backup Script
I have one at home which I can send you tonight, if someone doesn't come up with something before then. David x22707 mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lyle Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/02/2005 10:47 AM To: slug@slug.org.au cc: Fax to: Subject:[SLUG] Incremental Backup Script *** This email message has been processed by MIMEsweeper *** Can anyone point me to a good backup script or program that does incremental backups? I have a particluar directory I want to backup to an external firewire drive every night. cheers -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Streaming media servers
Shaun Butler wrote: You could also try http://helixcommunity.org/. The open source version of helix Server will play REAL streaming protocols, but if you wanted to stream quicktime and Windows Media, you have to buy the commercial version :(. I find it so scary that these companies which dual license have the boldness to require contributors to assign their copyright to them. I've only ever assigned my copyright to two groups in the past: my employers, obviously, and the FSF. I've never been worried about assigning my copyright to the FSF because I know they will ensure the software remains free (and with their gaggle of lawyers they can do a better job of that than I ever could). But assigning your copyright to RealNetworks for the specific purpose so that they can dual license it, is just unpaid labor. When you contribute to Helix you're not contributing to a community project, you're contributing to RealNetworks' bottom line. Trent -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: Incremental Backup Script
On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 10:47:59AM +1100, Lyle Chapman wrote: Can anyone point me to a good backup script or program that does incremental backups? I have a particluar directory I want to backup to an external firewire drive every night. I use dirvish for almost exactly this purpose (well, USB drive, but otherwise identical). It produces hardlinked trees, so each image is a complete snapshot of the system as at the time of the backup, but it only uses space for the changed files. It's quite a cool system, and can work across a network if you have need of such things. It's a bit quirky to set up, but once in place works very nicely. - Matt -- New Yankee Workshop isn't a how to for home hobbyists, it's Baywatch for powertool fetishists. -- Geoff Kinnel, ASR signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] a nice question
On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:12:11 +1100, David uttered I guess this is the point of the question. Is there a way of prioritising so that the effect of tar running is minimised. Sure. Start tar and then renice the process to 20 (it will only run when nothing else wants to), man renice for more information. Cheers, -- Steve You have a fear of nothingness, or in laymen's terms, a fear of ... nothingness - EMH, USS Voyager -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Streaming media servers
quote who=QuantumG But assigning your copyright to RealNetworks for the specific purpose so that they can dual license it, is just unpaid labor. When you contribute to Helix you're not contributing to a community project, you're contributing to RealNetworks' bottom line. If the project has a sane license, then you are contributing to the commons in perpetuity (almost, let's not get too finicky), so regardless of the fortunes of the company (who are most likely doing the majority share of the development work - why shouldn't they have a good bottom line?), the code will be Free. - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2005: Canberra, Australiahttp://linux.conf.au/ If you want to start a debate on a subject, however, all that seems to be necessary is to involve perennial target Richard Gooch. - LWN -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] a nice question
On Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 11:36:13 +1100, Steve Kowalik wrote: On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:12:11 +1100, David uttered I guess this is the point of the question. Is there a way of prioritising so that the effect of tar running is minimised. Sure. Start tar and then renice the process to 20 (it will only run when nothing else wants to), man renice for more information. But nice only effects the CPU usage, and doesn't do anything with the amount of buffer cache being thrashed, or the memory bus being killed by disk transfers or the increased seek times for any other applications, etc, etc, etc. Fixing this would be an interested project for aspiring kernel hackers : Benno -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
RE: [SLUG] a nice question
I have a very easy fix for this - you want to limit the rate at which read or write the data. As tge gzip/tar process will then have lots of breathing time for CPU/disk intensive operations: There is a very nice pipe viewer/rate limiter called pv 1. So write your command so it uses stdout to write (or read) the file: gzip -c big_file small_file.gz 2. Now use pv to view the rate at which it runs gzip -c big_file | pv small_file.gz This will show output like:- 3.33MB 0:00:02 [ 1.7MB/s] [ = 3. Now use pv to rate limit gzip -c big_file | pv -L 100k small_file.gz You get output like this 292kB 0:00:03 [ 98kB/s] [ = As gzip is only allowed to write 100kB per second it continually yields CPU cycles back to the kernel. I grabbed pv from http://www.ivarch.com/programs/pv.shtml Martin Martin Visser ,CISSP Network and Security Consultant Consulting Integration Technology Solutions Group - HP Services 3 Richardson Place North Ryde, Sydney NSW 2113, Australia Phone: +61-2-9022-1670 Mobile: +61-411-254-513 Fax: +61-2-9022-1800 E-mail: martin.visserAThp.com This email (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify HP immediately by return email and then delete the email, destroy any printed copy and do not disclose or use the information in it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Benno Sent: Wednesday, 9 February 2005 11:40 AM To: Steve Kowalik Cc: slug@slug.org.au; David Subject: Re: [SLUG] a nice question On Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 11:36:13 +1100, Steve Kowalik wrote: On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:12:11 +1100, David uttered I guess this is the point of the question. Is there a way of prioritising so that the effect of tar running is minimised. Sure. Start tar and then renice the process to 20 (it will only run when nothing else wants to), man renice for more information. But nice only effects the CPU usage, and doesn't do anything with the amount of buffer cache being thrashed, or the memory bus being killed by disk transfers or the increased seek times for any other applications, etc, etc, etc. Fixing this would be an interested project for aspiring kernel hackers : Benno -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Streaming media servers
Jeff Waugh wrote: If the project has a sane license, then you are contributing to the commons in perpetuity (almost, let's not get too finicky), so regardless of the fortunes of the company (who are most likely doing the majority share of the development work - why shouldn't they have a good bottom line?), the code will be Free. I think this completely boils down to a BSD vs GPL question. The GPL and other copyleft licenses (like the RPSL claims to be) serve a purpose that the BSD does not and assigning your copyright to someone who then goes and uses it in a proprietary product weakens that. Not that I have anything against the BSD. The project I have spent the most time on is under a BSD like license. Trent -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] a nice question
Benno == Benno [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Benno On Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 11:36:13 +1100, Steve Kowalik wrote: On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:12:11 +1100, David uttered I guess this is the point of the question. Is there a way of prioritising so that the effect of tar running is minimised. Sure. Start tar and then renice the process to 20 (it will only run when nothing else wants to), man renice for more information. Benno But nice only effects the CPU usage, and doesn't do anything Benno with the amount of buffer cache being thrashed, or the memory Benno bus being killed by disk transfers or the increased seek times Benno for any other applications, etc, etc, etc. This is the kind of thing that the CFQ I/O scheduler was designed for --- fair access to the disc. -- Dr Peter Chubb http://www.gelato.unsw.edu.au peterc AT gelato.unsw.edu.au The technical we do immediately, the political takes *forever* -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Incremental Backup Script
Lyle Chapman wrote: Can anyone point me to a good backup script or program that does incremental backups? I have a particluar directory I want to backup to an external firewire drive every night. cheers I use rdiff-backup for this. it works ok. it uses librsync and stores reverse diffs in a special subdirectory. if you check the wiki I have written a lame script that works for firewire. (i have since updated it inhouse, but not on the wiki - let me know if you need help) dave -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Copyright assignment + the GPL [Was: Streaming media servers]
quote who=QuantumG I think this completely boils down to a BSD vs GPL question. The GPL and other copyleft licenses (like the RPSL claims to be) serve a purpose that the BSD does not and assigning your copyright to someone who then goes and uses it in a proprietary product weakens that. I understand why this perspective has currency, but I disagree with it quite strongly. The code is available under the GPL, the community has full GPL rights, and you have a single copyright owner who is prepared to defend the software and aggressively develop/improve the software because they have an important investment in it. The areas where copyright assignment has significant impact include: * the barrier to entry for casual contributors is raised * copyright assignment may exclude developers with stringent clauses related to copyright ownership in their employment contracts * if a company wanted to lose all credibility they ever had, they could abuse section 7 of the GPL to exclude everyone else from using the software under the GPL, thus taking it away entirely (rather than just working on the proprietary branch, as some companies have done, such as sistina - hooray for red hat for saving GFS) ... and remember, the company who owns the copyright *chose* to license it under the GPL. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth! - Jeff -- GUADEC 2005: Stuttgart, Germany http://2005.guadec.org/ I think of [commercial Open Source development] as being the biggest private investment in public works in decades. - Andrew Tridgell -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: Copyright assignment + the GPL [Was: Streaming media servers]
Jeff Waugh wrote: I understand why this perspective has currency, but I disagree with it quite strongly. The code is available under the GPL, the community has full GPL rights, and you have a single copyright owner who is prepared to defend the software and aggressively develop/improve the software because they have an important investment in it. Well the point of the GPL (over a BSD-like license) is to ensure that the source code for all distributed changes are available and are freely distributable. So yes, although your specific changes are available to the community, all the changes that the new copyright owner distributes under a proprietary license are not. You might be ok with this, but I think it's just paying lip service to the GPL without actually accepting the concept of software freedom. As you put forward a number of bad situations that can arise from this, allow me to set up my nightmare scenario for you. 1. You contribute a significant amount of work to Helix (like a new feature). 2. RealNetworks demands a copyright assignment. 3. They put it into both the open source and proprietary distributions. 4. They sell their proprietary distribution to customers. 5. A customer finds a bug, wants a feature extension, etc. 6. RealNetworks adds fixes the bug, or makes the feature extension in the proprietary distribution only. That bug or feature extension is not free. It is a proprietary extension of copylefted code. That's crazy. It's this kind of nonsense that specifically inspired the creation of copyleft licenses, but the license does not apply to the copyright holder, so the community suffers. Now maybe you have no respect for copyleft licenses (it's ok to say so, I know a lot of BSD developers who don't) but if you do surely you've got to recognise that this is a travesty. To me, choosing the BSD over the GPL is deliberately saying proprietary forks of this software are ok by me. That's cool if that's what you want to do (I work on a project that specifically does this). But choosing the GPL over the BSD is deliberately saying that they are not ok, and I don't see why an exception for one proprietary fork (that made by the copyright holder) is ok. Trent -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Copyright assignment + the GPL [Was: Streaming media servers]
quote who=QuantumG Well the point of the GPL (over a BSD-like license) is to ensure that the source code for all distributed changes are available and are freely distributable. Which is the case, even if the copyright owner distributes the software under another license. So yes, although your specific changes are available to the community, all the changes that the new copyright owner distributes under a proprietary license are not. The community doesn't own them, nor has a claim to own them. The copyright holder gets to choose the license - if they choose to distribute their software under a FOSS license at all, you should be grateful! You might be ok with this, but I think it's just paying lip service to the GPL without actually accepting the concept of software freedom. I strongly disagree with this sentiment. The copyright owner has gone so far as to release their software (or large chunks of it) under a FOSS license. This indicates that they at least understand and accept the mechanics of software freedom, which is a good deal better than if they hadn't released the source at all. It's a great business model. It keeps them working on the software, defending it, investing in it, etc. Again: Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. As you put forward a number of bad situations that can arise from this, allow me to set up my nightmare scenario for you. 1. You contribute a significant amount of work to Helix (like a new feature). 2. RealNetworks demands a copyright assignment. 3. They put it into both the open source and proprietary distributions. 4. They sell their proprietary distribution to customers. 5. A customer finds a bug, wants a feature extension, etc. 6. RealNetworks adds fixes the bug, or makes the feature extension in the proprietary distribution only. That bug or feature extension is not free. That's hardly a 'nightmare scenario'. In fact, most organisations using this model are very much opposed to this kind of behaviour, because they know it will either won't attract community developers, or it will inspire them to fork the codebase (which is not in the organisation's best interests). Read a bunch of the copyright assignment agreements for popular projects- most say that the code will *also* be released under a FOSS license in perpetuity (or reasonably similar wording). The organisations that effectively use copyright assignment totally understand this issue. See my last point for a situation that actually comes close to a 'nightmare scenario'. It is a proprietary extension of copylefted code. Absolutely not! You contributed your change under copyright assignment. The patch author explicitly allowed for this to happen, so it is *nothing* of the sort. It's this kind of nonsense that specifically inspired the creation of copyleft licenses No, complete lack of software freedom inspired the creation of copyleft licenses, not sensible business models built upon the foundations of software freedom. but the license does not apply to the copyright holder, so the community suffers. The community benefits *more* from the availability of the software, source and commitment of the organisation that owns its copyright than it would if the source were closed. - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2005: Canberra, Australiahttp://linux.conf.au/ Debian is not as minor as many business end people think. - Alan Cox -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Copyright assignment + the GPL [Was: Streaming media servers]
Jeff Waugh wrote: Which is the case, even if the copyright owner distributes the software under another license. If they distribute exactly the same code under another license. They hardly ever do this because the user has no interest in getting something under a proprietary license if they can get the same thing under a liberal license. What they do is distribute the same code with proprietary extensions. The user has the choice, use the code available under a liberal license and do without the features, or give up their freedom for the features that are only available under the proprietary license. This is exactly what RealNetworks is doing with Helix. No, complete lack of software freedom inspired the creation of copyleft licenses, not sensible business models built upon the foundations of software freedom. The BSD licenses were around long before the GPL was drafted. RMS rejected the BSD because it failed to prevent this kind of proprietary forking. At least that's my understanding of it. The community benefits *more* from the availability of the software, source and commitment of the organisation that owns its copyright than it would if the source were closed. But that's not the argument. The argument is whether or not the community would benefit more from having someone like RealNetworks not demand copyright assignment. I believe they would because any extensions RealNetworks makes to the work of contributors will remain free. I'm sure the situation with RealNetworks is a lot more complicated than it appears. For example, I'm sure their proprietary product includes some licensed technology that they obviously have no permission to integrate into the open source distribution. On the other hand, they list things such as Ad-Serving Support and Live File Archiving as a features that is only in the proprietary version. I have no idea what they entail, but I can imagine that people would want this and be willing to fore-go their freedom to get it. Suppose I wasn't happy with RealNetwork's ad-serving.. maybe my customers were complaining that the ads take up too much bandwidth or something. I can't fix that. Well boo-hoo, I gave up my freedom to get that silly feature so it's my own problem. Say I decide to do something about it and write an ad-serving extension for the open source distribution. Are RealNetworks going to accept my patch? Presumably not. That's a terrible situation for the community to be in. Trent -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: Re: Copyright assignment + the GPL [Was: Streaming media servers]
On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 12:44:50PM +1000, QuantumG wrote: But that's not the argument. The argument is whether or not the community would benefit more from having someone like RealNetworks not demand copyright assignment. I believe they would because any extensions RealNetworks makes to the work of contributors will remain free. But consider what the alternatives are: 1) Helix is copyleft with no copyright assignment (no proprietary version). 2) Helix is copyleft with copyright assignment (proprietary version). 3) Helix is proprietary only. 1 is unlikely, since Real gets limited revenues. 2 is what we have now. 3 is the other practical alternative. Scrubbing 1 because it's not going to happen, we have a choice between a largely-free Helix and a totally non-free Helix. Which one do you want? No, you can't answer option 1 because Real isn't going to allow that. Suppose I wasn't happy with RealNetwork's ad-serving.. maybe my customers were complaining that the ads take up too much bandwidth or something. I can't fix that. Well boo-hoo, I gave up my freedom to get that silly feature so it's my own problem. Say I decide to do something about it and write an ad-serving extension for the open source distribution. Are RealNetworks going to accept my patch? Presumably not. That's a terrible situation for the community to be in. So someone releases a fork of Helix with their own ad-serving patch in. - Matt -- I'm tempted to try Gentoo, but then I learned that its installer is in Python, and, well, a base Python install on my system is something like fifty megabytes (for what? oh, right, we NEED four XML libraries, I forgot). -- Dave Brown, ASR signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Re: Copyright assignment + the GPL [Was: Streaming media servers]
Matthew Palmer wrote: Helix. Which one do you want? No, you can't answer option 1 because Real isn't going to allow that. Sorry, I think the correct answer is to fork Helix, implement all the features that people want. That way when people choose to use Helix because they want to stream some prorietary format that cannot be put in the community distribution they will have to make the decision to do without the work of the community, encouraging them not to use proprietary formats in the first place. I think the real question is, what does the community gain by giving their copyright to RealNetworks? A proprietary distribution? That's hardly a plus. Trent -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Re: Copyright assignment + the GPL [Was: Streaming media servers]
quote who=QuantumG I think the real question is, what does the community gain by giving their copyright to RealNetworks? A proprietary distribution? That's hardly a plus. You're making a general statement (that copyright assignment is bad), but hanging on to a specific example [1]. Look at other projects that require copyright assignment, such as Evolution, and see whether the points you make apply equally. - Jeff [1] I'm not particularly interested in contributing to Helix for related reasons (but not solely the issue of copyright assignment, which I believe to be fair in most cases). -- linux.conf.au 2005: Canberra, Australiahttp://linux.conf.au/ Not to mention that there's simply no way to explain what a 'window manager' is without descending into 'PC Load Letter?!' technobabble. - Havoc Pennington -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] mixed case web tree
Paul Robinson wrote: Since linux treats lowercase and LOWERCASE as seperate items there's no reason why this wouldn't work. An easier thing (ie less work for you) would be to use an apache mod_rewrite rule on the url. Won't mod_speling do this? IIRC one of its roles is to make web sites case insensitive (IMHO as they should be). Mike (who responds if you call him mike too, and sometiems even if you yell MIKE) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Re: Copyright assignment + the GPL [Was: Streaming media servers]
Jeff Waugh wrote: You're making a general statement (that copyright assignment is bad), but Not at all. My general statement is that assigning copyright to people who want that copyright assignment so they can make a proprietary distribution of the software is bad. Assigning copyright to the FSF is the best thing in the world. I would suggest that everyone do it. Trent -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] mixed case web tree
Yep - upon googling it yes it would.. I thought the other guy was joking when he suggested it :) Definitely the easiest option of the lot. Mike MacCana wrote: Paul Robinson wrote: Since linux treats lowercase and LOWERCASE as seperate items there's no reason why this wouldn't work. An easier thing (ie less work for you) would be to use an apache mod_rewrite rule on the url. Won't mod_speling do this? IIRC one of its roles is to make web sites case insensitive (IMHO as they should be). Mike (who responds if you call him mike too, and sometiems even if you yell MIKE) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Streaming media servers
quote(Jeff Waugh); www.flumotion.net, which is Free, but has commercial support backing and will have proprietary plugins for Windows Media (dunno about Real, that's harder, because Real aren't big on licensing their codecs), but it fully supports Free codecs out of the box, such as OGG Theora/Vorbis. :-) ...however, thanks to Real's elite support of theora vorbis in their players, you should be able to use Real to stream the flumotion theora/ vorbis stream. ;) Chris. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] mixed case web tree
no joking here Dean Paul Robinson wrote: Yep - upon googling it yes it would.. I thought the other guy was joking when he suggested it :) Definitely the easiest option of the lot. Mike MacCana wrote: Paul Robinson wrote: Since linux treats lowercase and LOWERCASE as seperate items there's no reason why this wouldn't work. An easier thing (ie less work for you) would be to use an apache mod_rewrite rule on the url. Won't mod_speling do this? IIRC one of its roles is to make web sites case insensitive (IMHO as they should be). Mike (who responds if you call him mike too, and sometiems even if you yell MIKE) -- WWW: http://dean.bong.com.au LAN: http://www.bong.com.au EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 16867613 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Re: Copyright assignment + the GPL [Was: Streaming media servers]
Jeff Waugh wrote: You're making a general statement (that copyright assignment is bad), but hanging on to a specific example [1]. Look at other projects that require copyright assignment, such as Evolution, and see whether the points you make apply equally. From the Evolution FAQ: http://forge.novell.com/modules/xoopsfaq/?cat_id=30%23q60 What do I get for my copyright assignment? In exchange for your grant of copyright, Novell does two things. First, we promise to use the GPL or another Debian-endorsed Free license for your code (although we may also grant other licenses on other terms). Second, we grant back to you as author all your original rights to do what you want with your code, without any fees or restrictions from us. This includes your right to relicense under whatever terms you may desire. That is, your grant lets Novell use your code, but you keep your original ownership rights as well. So in exchange for your copyright you get a license you wouldn't need if you didn't give them your copyright and you get the honour of Novel being able to relicense your code as they see fit (i.e., you get to watch them take away people's freedom using your work). What a deal! The only reason they can do it is because they control the repository. If GNU Arch was more widely used people wouldn't mind getting lots of patches from lots of different places and this kind of centralization wouldn't be something these companies could capitalize on. Trent -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Re: Copyright assignment + the GPL [Was: Streaming media servers]
quote who=QuantumG The only reason they can do it is because they control the repository. That's claptrap. It's because their tree has the momentum. If anyone forked, creating way more momentum (cf. xorg), Novell copyright assignment would no longer be relevant. But they maintain the momentum, because they've done nothing wrong by the community, and there's no value forking. If GNU Arch was more widely used people wouldn't mind getting lots of patches from lots of different places and this kind of centralization wouldn't be something these companies could capitalize on. Don't attempt to solve social problems with technology (much as I enjoy arch). Plus, you're referring to these companies as if they're eating seals or molesting children. They're writing Free Software for you and I! - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2005: Canberra, Australiahttp://linux.conf.au/ If I can't be near you I would rather be adrift in space. - Neil Finn, Try Whistling This -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] pax
Hello list, Does anybody know a download link for pax (the archiving system, source code or slackware package)? I found paxutils on GNU project page, but it doesn't contain the software itself. Cheers. -- Julio C. Ody http://rootshell.be/~julioody -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.12 GCS/SS/CC d@ s: a? C++(+++) ULB+++$ P L+++$ !E W++(+++) N+ !o K- !w O- M V- PS+ PE Y+ PGP++(-) t 5 X R+ tv-- b++ DI-- D+ G++ e h r+ y++* --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Re: Copyright assignment + the GPL [Was: Streaming media servers]
Jeff Waugh wrote: That's claptrap. It's because their tree has the momentum. If anyone forked, creating way more momentum (cf. xorg), Novell copyright assignment would no longer be relevant. But they maintain the momentum, because they've done nothing wrong by the community, and there's no value forking. I think people simply don't have much of an opinion on dual licensing. We have no idea how many bugs Novel or RealNetworks have fixed in their proprietary distribution and failed to put into the community distribution. The fact that no-one has called foul yet is probably the only reason why community driven forks havn't taken off from these projects. On the other hand, have a look at Trolltech. By refusing to release Qt/win32 under the GPL they've earned the distain of the KDE community causing ports of Qt/X11 to both Cygwin and native win32. The fact that TrollTech doesn't even accept patches might have something to do with this too. Don't attempt to solve social problems with technology. The social problem here is caused by the technology. CVS repositories centralize power. Those who control what gets committed to the repository can put all sorts of conditions of entry on contributors. Decentralized systems like GNU Arch correct that power imbalance.. well they would, if they were used better. The Linux kernel is the best example of this. The BSD kernels are not as modular as Linux specifically because they use a centralized development model. Which means it's hard to maintain a patch set with the main development branch, and that results in an inertia when trying to implement ideas that are not acceptable to the guardians of the repository. Trent -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Re: Copyright assignment + the GPL [Was: Streaming media servers]
quote who=QuantumG I think people simply don't have much of an opinion on dual licensing. We have no idea how many bugs Novel or RealNetworks have fixed in their proprietary distribution and failed to put into the community distribution. Novell don't ship a closed-source version of Evolution. Before Novell, Ximian required copyright assignment because they knew they would end up *linking* to GPL-incompatible code (the Exchange Connector, before it was also released under the GPL). It is unlikely that software released under multiple licenses would have a branch that contained additional fixes, because it unnecessarily complicates the management of the codebase. It would inflict an entirely pointless cost on the development of the software, which is in direct conflict with the reasons why a company would release software under a Free license anyway. It makes no sense. On the other hand, have a look at Trolltech. By refusing to release Qt/win32 under the GPL they've earned the distain of the KDE community causing ports of Qt/X11 to both Cygwin and native win32. The fact that TrollTech doesn't even accept patches might have something to do with this too. So TrollTech recently announced that Qt/Win32 would also be released under the GPL, which (so I hear) was largely demand-driven. TrollTech *do* accept patches, but like any project, they don't except *all* patches. There's very little disdain for TrollTech in the KDE community. Don't attempt to solve social problems with technology. The social problem here is caused by the technology. CVS repositories centralize power. The Linux kernel is the best example of this. Again, this is false. It is *mindshare* and *momentum* that keeps everyone concentrating on the same branch, not technical quibbles like revision control methodology. Linux is a good example of mindshare and momentum over distributed development - the distros all stick to similar branches (and not always Linus' branch; -ac was the relevant one during early 2.4). Look at OpenOffice.org. The distros ship ooo.ximian.com's branch, not the Sun branch. Why? Certainly not revision control centralisation - Sun didn't manage to bottle that genie! ooo.ximian.com has the momentum, and that's what keeps it ahead. At any time, someone could fork or branch Helix or Evolution, and if done the right way (and with good rationale), they could capture the momentum and decimate the old branches, cf. XFree86 vs. Xorg. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2005: Stuttgart, Germany http://2005.guadec.org/ For a list of reasons why technology has failed to improve our lives, please press 3. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: Re: Copyright assignment + the GPL [Was: Streaming media servers]
Again, this is false. It is *mindshare* and *momentum* that keeps everyone concentrating on the same branch, not technical quibbles like revision control methodology. Linux is a good example of mindshare and momentum over distributed development - the distros all stick to similar branches (and not always Linus' branch; -ac was the relevant one during early 2.4). Look at OpenOffice.org. The distros ship ooo.ximian.com's branch, not the Sun branch. Why? Certainly not revision control centralisation - Sun didn't manage to bottle that genie! ooo.ximian.com has the momentum, and that's what keeps it ahead. At any time, someone could fork or branch Helix or Evolution, and if done the right way (and with good rationale), they could capture the momentum and decimate the old branches, cf. XFree86 vs. Xorg. If you get the people to join your fork, then you are the project, it doesn't matter who has the repo or what version control system it is under, Jeffs examples are all good, can you provide some of companies going the other way? I know when I contribute code to projects I research their licensing and stuff before hand, I expect most other FOSS contributors do the same and decide based on the project and project history whether they want to work on that project and if they are happy for their code to be used by the copyright holder granted I've never signed a copyright release but I also understand that all the work I put into the drm and Mesa and Xorg can all end up inside someones commercial product.. but I'm happy that the benefits to the community outweighs the advantages any big evil corp is going to get.. Dave. -- David Airlie, Software Engineer http://www.skynet.ie/~airlied / airlied at skynet.ie pam_smb / Linux DECstation / Linux VAX / ILUG person -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
