Re: [SLUG] Oracle 9i database and samba
On Mon, 2008-03-03 at 18:52 +1100, Alex Samad wrote: Any reason to put oracle on windows ? why not make up oracle on a linux (vm or real box) Because at this stage all I know is that it appears to be a bundled installation on Windows. Sadly it used to be a unix application that has been ported to Windows. It still uses an Xserver and goodness knows what else has been hacked in there?! -- Simon Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Oracle 9i database and samba
On Sat, Mar 01, 2008 at 12:15:33PM +1100, Matthew Hannigan wrote: On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 11:03:22AM +1100, Jeremy Portzer wrote: Joel Heenan wrote: Network filesystems are not normally used for database files. I work for an ASP that has all of its Oracle databases (hundreds of them) mounted via NFS. It works just fine. The database servers are running Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 and 5, and the NFS mount points are NetApp filers. I believe NetApps are specifically supported by Oracle but not NFS generally. (which you touch on later in this message) I believe the metalink articles talk about NFS being support with out touching on a vendor Even so this is just a convenience, it does nothing to 'share' the database unless you mean clustering. Access to the database is always by an Oracle protocol e.g. bequeath, sqlnet or something like jdbc, never by direct access to the files. Matt PS getting seriously off-topic here, I suggest following up to -chat -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- I've enjoyed just about as much of this as I can stand. signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Oracle 9i database and samba
On Fri, 2008-02-29 at 15:06 +0900, Adrian Chadd wrote: Again, why are you asking here versus the two vendors in question? Because I am interested in some independent advice/war stories. I strongly suggest you just ask your vendors and get them to sign off on it. I sincerely doubt anyone here is qualified to tell you yes or no; and Minescape looks like a serious piece of mine design and operations planning software. I will be. Thanks. -- Simon Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Oracle 9i database and samba
On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 03:50:22PM +1000, Simon Wong wrote: On Fri, 2008-02-29 at 14:40 +1100, Amos Shapira wrote: Do you plan to have access to that database in parallel to having that VMware WIndows running? There will be multiple VMs running on the same machine. Because if so then Joel Heenan's solution is the right one - run Orcale 9i on the host and have it accessed from the Windows under VMware. I think the solution will be one Windows VM running Oracle (possible with the DB files on Samba) and the other VMs accessing that Oracle instance. Any reason to put oracle on windows ? why not make up oracle on a linux (vm or real box) Generally, the advise I remember (at least for Postgres) is that running databases on top of network file systems is a bad idea at least for performance, but I never tried this personally. Understandable but these DB files are on the same physical machine, different OS (Linux VMware host). Thanks. -- Simon Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- Excellent day for drinking heavily. Spike the office water cooler. signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Oracle 9i database and samba
On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 11:03:22AM +1100, Jeremy Portzer wrote: Joel Heenan wrote: Network filesystems are not normally used for database files. I work for an ASP that has all of its Oracle databases (hundreds of them) mounted via NFS. It works just fine. The database servers are running Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 and 5, and the NFS mount points are NetApp filers. I believe NetApps are specifically supported by Oracle but not NFS generally. (which you touch on later in this message) Even so this is just a convenience, it does nothing to 'share' the database unless you mean clustering. Access to the database is always by an Oracle protocol e.g. bequeath, sqlnet or something like jdbc, never by direct access to the files. Matt PS getting seriously off-topic here, I suggest following up to -chat -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Oracle 9i database and samba
Hi all! Can anyone confirm whether Oracle 9i running under Windows will work if it's DB files are stored on a samba share? I have to try and run Mincom's Minescape under Windows but want the data and DB shared via Samba. TIAs -- Simon Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Oracle 9i database and samba
On Thu, Feb 28, 2008, Simon Wong wrote: Hi all! Can anyone confirm whether Oracle 9i running under Windows will work if it's DB files are stored on a samba share? I have to try and run Mincom's Minescape under Windows but want the data and DB shared via Samba. .. why do you think this would be a good idea? Adrian -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Oracle 9i database and samba
On Thu, 2008-02-28 at 18:04 +0900, Adrian Chadd wrote: Can anyone confirm whether Oracle 9i running under Windows will work if it's DB files are stored on a samba share? I have to try and run Mincom's Minescape under Windows but want the data and DB shared via Samba. .. why do you think this would be a good idea? because the instance of Windows will be running under VMware server (or Workstation) and I like to keep the data outside the VM where it can also be shared with other instances of the app. What are you thinking? -- Simon Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Oracle 9i database and samba
On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Simon Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-02-28 at 18:04 +0900, Adrian Chadd wrote: Can anyone confirm whether Oracle 9i running under Windows will work if it's DB files are stored on a samba share? I have to try and run Mincom's Minescape under Windows but want the data and DB shared via Samba. .. why do you think this would be a good idea? because the instance of Windows will be running under VMware server (or Workstation) and I like to keep the data outside the VM where it can also be shared with other instances of the app. What are you thinking? Simon, Why don't you run the database on a big fat database server then have all the applications connect to it via oracle listeners through TCP/IP. That would be the standard solution to this problem. This solution is strange because - you may hit issues because not all FS locking commands will be supported - running multiple database instances connecting to the same DB files is normally done in an Oracle RAC configuration. You don't run Oracle on the app servers you run it on database servers and use a shared filesystem like ASM or OCFS2 normally connected to the DB files over a SAN. Network filesystems are not normally used for database files. Is there a good reason you need more than one oracle instance? Joel -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Oracle 9i database and samba
Joel Heenan wrote: Network filesystems are not normally used for database files. I work for an ASP that has all of its Oracle databases (hundreds of them) mounted via NFS. It works just fine. The database servers are running Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 and 5, and the NFS mount points are NetApp filers. Now, this is a bit tangential to the original question, which was about Windows and samba. SMB/CIFS is not at all the same thing as NFS. But it's worth pointing out that Oracle on network filesystems is perfectly doable - and NFS is fully supported by Oracle, given certain conditions. An important way that we meet those conditions is that all NFS traffic for Oracle is in a physically separate network from all other traffic, and is managed very carefully to avoid congestion. --Jeremy -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Oracle 9i database and samba
On Fri, Feb 29, 2008, Simon Wong wrote: .. why do you think this would be a good idea? because the instance of Windows will be running under VMware server (or Workstation) and I like to keep the data outside the VM where it can also be shared with other instances of the app. What are you thinking? That I'd be asking Oracle and your application vendor whether your proposed setup is fully supported. Backending databases onto random network attached storage is a very bad idea unless you Know What You Are Doing; and if you're on here asking then you probably don't fall into that category. The other poster who runs Oracle off a netapp filer is surprising to me, as I've had no end of issues with databases on network attached storage, but -my- experiences haven't been with Oracle on Netapp NFS, just MySQL on Linux NFS. In any case, knowing what I know about the wildly different flavours of NFS implementations, I'd not be putting a critical SQL DB on it (or heck, even hash tables with shared writers!) unless my vendor told me it was ok. In short: Ask your vendors. Thats what you're paying them for. :) Adrian -- - Xenion - http://www.xenion.com.au/ - VPS Hosting - Commercial Squid Support - - $25/pm entry-level VPSes w/ capped bandwidth charges available in WA - -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Oracle 9i database and samba
On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Simon Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-02-28 at 18:04 +0900, Adrian Chadd wrote: Can anyone confirm whether Oracle 9i running under Windows will work if it's DB files are stored on a samba share? I have to try and run Mincom's Minescape under Windows but want the data and DB shared via Samba. .. why do you think this would be a good idea? because the instance of Windows will be running under VMware server (or Workstation) and I like to keep the data outside the VM where it can also be shared with other instances of the app. What are you thinking? Do you plan to have access to that database in parallel to having that VMware WIndows running? Because if so then Joel Heenan's solution is the right one - run Orcale 9i on the host and have it accessed from the Windows under VMware. If you don't need parallel access and don't want to run Oracle on a separate host then maybe another solution would be to import an LVM (or a plain file) into the VM guest as a separate virtual disk. Generally, the advise I remember (at least for Postgres) is that running databases on top of network file systems is a bad idea at least for performance, but I never tried this personally. --Amos -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Oracle 9i database and samba
On Fri, 2008-02-29 at 11:18 +0900, Adrian Chadd wrote: That I'd be asking Oracle and your application vendor whether your proposed setup is fully supported. I don't think it is well supported! Backending databases onto random network attached storage is a very bad idea I agree but this is shared on the same machine. I think that is a lt more reliable apart from other FS issues. unless you Know What You Are Doing; and if you're on here asking then you probably don't fall into that category. Not it in this instance! ;-) The other poster who runs Oracle off a netapp filer is surprising to me, as I've had no end of issues with databases on network attached storage, but -my- experiences haven't been with Oracle on Netapp NFS, just MySQL on Linux NFS. In any case, knowing what I know about the wildly different flavours of NFS implementations, I'd not be putting a critical SQL DB on it (or heck, even hash tables with shared writers!) unless my vendor told me it was ok. OK In short: Ask your vendors. Thats what you're paying them for. :) I will and will post back here if I get it running too! -- Simon Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Oracle 9i database and samba
On Fri, 2008-02-29 at 10:38 +1100, Joel Heenan wrote: Why don't you run the database on a big fat database server then have all the applications connect to it via oracle listeners through TCP/IP. That would be the standard solution to this problem. hmmm, the more I look into this application (Mincom Minescape) it seems that may in fact be what it does, it has a Design File Server. This solution is strange because - you may hit issues because not all FS locking commands will be supported - running multiple database instances connecting to the same DB files is normally done in an Oracle RAC configuration. You don't run Oracle on the app servers you run it on database servers and use a shared filesystem like ASM or OCFS2 normally connected to the DB files over a SAN. Network filesystems are not normally used for database files. I am sure you are correct, I don't have any experience with Oracle or large, distributed DB installations. Is there a good reason you need more than one oracle instance? No! I think I phrase the question incorrectly to start with. If I just want one instance of the Oracle DB (the Design File Server) can I run it installed in a VM and have it's DB files stored on Samba shared to it from the host OS? -- Simon Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Oracle 9i database and samba
On Fri, 2008-02-29 at 14:40 +1100, Amos Shapira wrote: Do you plan to have access to that database in parallel to having that VMware WIndows running? There will be multiple VMs running on the same machine. Because if so then Joel Heenan's solution is the right one - run Orcale 9i on the host and have it accessed from the Windows under VMware. I think the solution will be one Windows VM running Oracle (possible with the DB files on Samba) and the other VMs accessing that Oracle instance. Generally, the advise I remember (at least for Postgres) is that running databases on top of network file systems is a bad idea at least for performance, but I never tried this personally. Understandable but these DB files are on the same physical machine, different OS (Linux VMware host). Thanks. -- Simon Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Oracle 9i database and samba
I think I phrase the question incorrectly to start with. If I just want one instance of the Oracle DB (the Design File Server) can I run it installed in a VM and have it's DB files stored on Samba shared to it from the host OS? Again, why are you asking here versus the two vendors in question? I strongly suggest you just ask your vendors and get them to sign off on it. I sincerely doubt anyone here is qualified to tell you yes or no; and Minescape looks like a serious piece of mine design and operations planning software. Adrian -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
