Joe,
You said, "Some homes have no options but antifreeze." That's absolutely not
true. With construction techniques and now with dry residential, you can
protect any home with sprinklers and you can do it affordably.
Do the right thing here. The right thing is not to put an antifreeze
Well, I'm not sure what a huge non-profit in Boston is supposed to do, tell you
its ok to install what we've always done at the risk of blowing people up?
Develop what DuPont and Noble haven't?
It's a bad situation, and you live in the affected area. Doubt the folks living
near a burning nuke pl
This is my point, I have long term customers/clients, all of a sudden the
systems I installed are no longer safe and you Mr. Owner are going to have
to replace them at your expense. I have parking garages, custom homes worth
millions, hotels that cannot just be easily changed. Some homes have no
op
Scorpions, spiders, and snakes! Oh my!
Bob
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Mark.Phelps
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:26 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: antifreeze so
We don't need cold to kill the bugs. There aren't any. Bugs don't like living
in a desert.
Mark at Aero
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Law, Kevin W
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 10:53 AM
T
But there is nothing to thin out the population of bugs where it doesn't
freeze. That is why there are some many bugs that want to eat you where
it doesn't get cold.
Kevin Law, PE
Sr. Fire Protection Engineer
HVAC/Fire Protection, M&PE
Bechtel National - WTP Project
Ph. 509-371-3280
Cell 5
Hey GLC dont tempt me I may just make the move. Or was this a business venture
offer?
Rod
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church
[g...@rowesprinkler.com]
Sent: Thursday, March
Chris here are the links:
NFPA 13: www.nfpa.org/aboutthecodes/AboutTheCodes.asp?DocNum=13
NFPA 13R: www.nfpa.org/aboutthecodes/AboutTheCodes.asp?DocNum=13R
NFPA 13D: www.nfpa.org/aboutthecodes/AboutTheCodes.asp?DocNum=13D
NFPA 25: www.nfpa.org/aboutthecodes/AboutTheCodes.asp?DocNum=25
-
I apologize to any of you that are offended by my reaction to the
"Explosion" issue, but I think when we use words, even among ourselves we
may need to carefully edit what we wouldn't want someone like NHBA to read
into it.
Ken: thank you for your update on this. When I scanned the FPRF report, I
n
I haven't been following this as close as others. This thread was started with
reference to an NFPA 13 change. This would be for new systems. Wouldn't NFPA
25 or the local fire code address existing systems? To date I haven't seen
action there. Granted the research points to a problem but w
Rip em out and install dry
Or, You could move to SoCal or Phoenix..
George Church
Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc.
PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842
877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax
g...@rowesprinkler.com
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:spri
Yes Thom. And I went into that meeting in Providence quite skeptical and came
out fairly convinced that NFPA did the best they could. I understand Joe's
point. The conclusion sucks and there are not any good solutions for many
systems in our neck of the woods that don't cost a good chunk of mone
There are always more than one alternative. After 911 three solutions
to the problem of planes hitting buildings that were proposed were
hardening all tall buildings, bridges, etc., Homeland Security, and
invading Afghanistan and tracking down the bad guys. Other
alternatives were ground all airpla
All NFPA did was transfer the real world problem onto contractors to figure
out what to do with existing systems. They simply washed their hands of the
liability and left it up to the contractor to fend for themselves. What's
next for this industry? How many black eyes can we keep taking?
Joe Burt
Thom,
Yes, "explosions." I've read both the preliminary and final editions of
the reports from the Fire Protection Research Foundation on anti-freeze
solutions in home fire systems. The language there discusses the
potential for explosions being much higher as a result of the flash fire
bei
The problem is, you know there is no alternative but to refresh any system
in my area to 60% glycerin even though I know it is not what NFPA 25 says.
That will put me on the hook even though I inform the owner and have them
sign something that they understand. Now how is that a good solution?
Joe
We use "unscheduled rapid disassembly", much more politically correct. Don't
you think?
It's good to live where it doesn't freeze.
Ron Fletcher
Aero Automatic
Phoenix, AZ
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.o
George Really??? EXPLOSIONS??? I Could live with "Fire Balls" or "Expanding
balls of fire" or even "Great Balls of Fire!" but Explosions??
For other meanings of "explosion", "explode" and similar, see Explosion
(disambiguation).
Detonation of explosives.
explosion is a rapid increase in volume a
The responsibility is on the building OWNER, not you.
I don't argue the point you may look stupid :) but the situation can be
explained:
Excessive concentrations of AF have been discovered to cause explosions and
kill people.
We haven't got an answer yet.
Most owners understand that.
Just as we
Ya, maybe back in 2001 they could have addressed the issue when it first had
a incident. I don't disagree with the problem, just the solution. The limits
do not work for any systems in the states we work. What kind of a solution
is find an alternative system? Does not solve the problem and leaves m
Could NFPA have done anything but respond quickly and thoroughly to sprinkler
systems causing explosions and deaths?
I'm just thankful the NAHB didn't pick it up and run with it in our current
battle for the IRC mandate in PA.
George Church
Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc.
PO Box 407, Middleburg, P
I am not aware of any such product. I heard a rumor Lubrizol was working on
something. I would like to thank NFPA for making such a mess out of this
anti-freeze issue. What am I supposed to tell the owner when he asks me who
is going to pay for this on existing systems?
Joe Burtell
-Original
With the new TIA's being issued on NFPA 25 concerning the allowable
concentrations of the
standard propylene glycol or glycerin only being able to protect down to -6 or
-19 a problem
now exists for the northern areas where the temperatures are know to reach
below the limit.
Thus my question:
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