RE: [EXTERNAL] 23.4.4.2.5: What is the purpose and how does it apply?

2020-12-10 Thread Scott Futrell via Sprinklerforum
Many more times than you may have heard about, Craig. For a variety of reasons, there are more fires that exceed the full design area than you are told about. I recently spent four days at a fire scene where part of a sprinklered, light hazard building burned to the ground. That fire exceeded

RE: [EXTERNAL] 23.4.4.2.5: What is the purpose and how does it apply?

2020-12-10 Thread Prahl, Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum
If I had a loading dock attached to and ESFR system, I'd calc the ESFR since it would be the most hydraulically demanding. If a fire originated on the dock and migrated inward to the building, involving a portion of the dock and the ESFR system, you still should be fine from a water supply

RE: [EXTERNAL] 23.4.4.2.5: What is the purpose and how does it apply?

2020-12-10 Thread Travis Mack via Sprinklerforum
I believe the intent came from an example of a dry system loading dock attached to an ESFR warehouse. The statement was that if we have to carry the density over into the ESFR warehouse from the loading dock, you would be flowing an insane amount of water. If you have a 2000 sq ft loading

Re: [EXTERNAL] 23.4.4.2.5: What is the purpose and how does it apply?

2020-12-10 Thread Ron Greenman via Sprinklerforum
I'm pretty sure that the increase of 30% goes all the way back to pipe scheduling where the increase in area was added because of the time-delay inherent in dry pipes from fusing to water delivery and the likelihood of extra unnecessary heads fusing across the ceiling even if the fire itself

RE: [EXTERNAL] 23.4.4.2.5: What is the purpose and how does it apply?

2020-12-10 Thread Cary Webber via Sprinklerforum
I've heard it explained that the intent was to drive up the size of the main feeding the smaller area in case it was ever expanded in size, but in my personal opinion the standard should NOT be in the business of addressing the future. If the area gets added onto we can deal with it then by

RE: [EXTERNAL] 23.4.4.2.5: What is the purpose and how does it apply?

2020-12-10 Thread Travis Mack via Sprinklerforum
I believe this is one of those things that has unintended consequences. As I heard urban legend rumors, the idea was for something like a loading dock or something. That if you added additional flow to the main, that if adjacent sprinklers were to activate that the system would be sized to

RE: [EXTERNAL] 23.4.4.2.5: What is the purpose and how does it apply?

2020-12-10 Thread Prahl, Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum
Very good question. I've read discussions on this issue recently as well and really wonder what was the thought process behind including a non-existent flow value in the system design and calculations. I would love to hear the rationale for this section. Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME

23.4.4.2.5: What is the purpose and how does it apply?

2020-12-10 Thread James Litvak via Sprinklerforum
I've just been introduced to section 23.4.4.2.5 (2016). In my particular situation, I have an EH2 refueling building (0.4 / 2,500) that is 2,268 sq.ft. in its entirety. The flow from my calc came out to 998 gpm, so I was told by my coworker who reviewed my plans not to worry about the extra 2 gpm