Re: Airing of Grievances

Regardless of your legal opinions on the matter, please refrain from pricing discussions as Bob stated earlier. As a reminder this forum has a specific set of rules that you agreed to when you signed up. Failure to adhere to the following will result of a loss in posting privileges. 1.

Airing of Grievances

I don't always agree with Steve, but on this I could not agree with Steve MORE. Open discussion of pricing is the opposite of price fixing. What forum is better for discussing pricing? Surely not the NFPA, who can't even reveal how they select new committee members. I know your warning, Mr.

Airing of Grievances

Life is competition for energy. Given a relatively stable and a not-overly-manipulated ecosystem, life tends to diverge. Some life diverges into complexity by gathering energy flying from beautiful project to beautiful project, cherry-picking only nectar. Other life need not change much, and is

Re: Airing of Grievances

Mr. Leyton, While I agree with you in spirit and in practice, please refrain from discussing specific pricing models within the forum or and AFSA venue or medium. Doing so may be considered a form of price fixing which is both frowned upon and illegal. AFSA is a non profit trade

Re: Airing of Grievances

Guys, Having been in this business for almost 50 years, I have learned that the quality of a Fire Sprinkler job begins with Quality Design. I was on the "Board" for almost 10 years before I moved on to Sales, Management and later Ownership. My start in Design gave me a great foundation to have

RE: Airing of Grievances

As long as I'm on a roll, I submitted a proposal last week on a site fire main project that's off the grid in the desert east of San Diego. The proposal request came from the Civil Engineer who's already signed up and on board, but they recently realized that the FP infrastructure is beyond

RE: Airing of Grievances

From an engineering perspective - I'd ask that those that know those McDonald's PE's or front-porch PE's please have their stamping/reviewing/licensed individual possibly report any PE's acting out of their area of expertise to review/seal FP drawings for a little chump change to the proper

Re: Airing of Grievances

Steve, that stuff happens on the other coast, too. A few years ago I had someone come in at half the design price I quoted. I told the client I can’t come near that, so the other guy got it. A few months later, the low bidder called to hire me to get the plan through review. I told

Re: Airing of Grievances

I was just the low life plan reviewer. Forbidden to comment. It was just obvious to me sometimes that primary design intent of plan submittal was for plans to be rejected, with goal of renegotiating price. All I could do was write a review letter and put it on hold. Then six weeks later they

Airing of Grievances

Since it's Festivus season, I thought I'd share this with the group. Our firm is scaled and resourced as a consulting engineering business model and not a "free-lance" drafting/design service. As such, we have direct and overhead costs that push our fees to the limits of what contractors

RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mixing ESFR Sprinklers

We always calc a mix if one is present. Sometimes they drive an over-discharge that increases demand, sometimes they don't. Be sure to try every combination (4+0, 3+1, 2+2, 1+3, 0+4). We have even found that calculating a 4-line group that crosses 2 systems can create a higher demand if you

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mixing ESFR Sprinklers

We split the system at the boundaries. That way you avoid the confusion. Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, COC, SET Senior Engineering Manager MFP Design 480-505-9271 ext. 700 C: 480-272-2471 travis.m...@mfpdesign.com

RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mixing ESFR Sprinklers

How do you guys calc these systems? Just the K22 section and the K17 section separately? Or a combo? I think there are situations where having one line of K17s (at 52 psi) in your remote area would be the "worst-case" scenario because that 52 psi would drive some overflow in the two lines of