RE: Head replacement on pipe sched
Todd, Please do! That would be great!! Cecil Bilbo Academy of Fire Sprinkler Technology Champaign, IL 217.607.0325 www.sprinkleracademy.com ce...@sprinkleracademy.com OUR STUDENTS SAVE LIVES!! Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 09:20:41 -0400 To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org From: t...@fpdc.com Subject: RE: Head replacement on pipe sched Cecil, I'll send you a photo, but the dry valve was replaced in the late 50s - early 60s and a backflow has been added as well. If you are looking for a system that is 100 years old that has been unmolested, I may have something. There is an old mill in northeast CT with a long disconnected sprinkler system (water tower collapsed and no other supply). The sprinklers at least in some areas are still the 1890s Grinnell heads. The risers may be just as old. If you want, I can try to get in there and get some photos. At 07:50 AM 7/3/2012, you wrote: Yo Todd, Please send me detailed pictures of the dry pipe riser! ce...@sprinkleracademy.com Cecil Bilbo Academy of Fire Sprinkler Technology Champaign, IL 217.607.0325 www.sprinkleracademy.com ce...@sprinkleracademy.com OUR STUDENTS SAVE LIVES!! Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 17:38:38 -0400 To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org From: t...@fpdc.com Subject: Re: Head replacement on pipe sched This is a dry system installed in 1899. The current sprinklers are from 1954 (+/-) and are being replaced due to age. FWIW, we did an internal inspection and are going to do a full flushing as well. At 03:19 PM 7/2/2012, you wrote: I think your asking if it is acceptable to convert an existing pipe schedule with standard response sprinklers to quick response sprinklers. Although you aren't required too change them since it is existing, if I were you AND the sprinklers were going to be changed anyways, I'd go that route. Good question since the schedule was defined using the SR sprinklers. Lets start with 13:22.5.1.2 (2010 ed) which only restricts the k- factor, not the thermal response. To put your mind at ease in case you were thinking that it could mean that the TC just has been asked or thought about this issue, read on. Unlike storage (where we have a faster growing, more challenging fire that could cause too many sprinklers to open), LH or OH would only benefit from a faster response (as shown by the same density but smaller area for all spray sprinklers). Roland NFPA required caveat that this is my opinion and not that of NFPA or any of its technical committees. On Jul 2, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Todd - FPDC wrote: I am recommending replacing all of the sprinklers on a pipe schedule system in a school. SR or QR heads? Sent from my iPhone ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860.535.2080 www.fpdc.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120703/a48ed701/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860.535.2080 www.fpdc.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120703/c337ebd9/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: Head replacement on pipe sched
It may take me some time, but let me see what I can do. At 04:26 PM 7/3/2012, you wrote: Todd, Please do! That would be great!! Cecil Bilbo Academy of Fire Sprinkler Technology Champaign, IL 217.607.0325 www.sprinkleracademy.com ce...@sprinkleracademy.com OUR STUDENTS SAVE LIVES!! Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 09:20:41 -0400 To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org From: t...@fpdc.com Subject: RE: Head replacement on pipe sched Cecil, I'll send you a photo, but the dry valve was replaced in the late 50s - early 60s and a backflow has been added as well. If you are looking for a system that is 100 years old that has been unmolested, I may have something. There is an old mill in northeast CT with a long disconnected sprinkler system (water tower collapsed and no other supply). The sprinklers at least in some areas are still the 1890s Grinnell heads. The risers may be just as old. If you want, I can try to get in there and get some photos. At 07:50 AM 7/3/2012, you wrote: Yo Todd, Please send me detailed pictures of the dry pipe riser! ce...@sprinkleracademy.com Cecil Bilbo Academy of Fire Sprinkler Technology Champaign, IL 217.607.0325 www.sprinkleracademy.com ce...@sprinkleracademy.com OUR STUDENTS SAVE LIVES!! Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 17:38:38 -0400 To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org From: t...@fpdc.com Subject: Re: Head replacement on pipe sched This is a dry system installed in 1899. The current sprinklers are from 1954 (+/-) and are being replaced due to age. FWIW, we did an internal inspection and are going to do a full flushing as well. At 03:19 PM 7/2/2012, you wrote: I think your asking if it is acceptable to convert an existing pipe schedule with standard response sprinklers to quick response sprinklers. Although you aren't required too change them since it is existing, if I were you AND the sprinklers were going to be changed anyways, I'd go that route. Good question since the schedule was defined using the SR sprinklers. Lets start with 13:22.5.1.2 (2010 ed) which only restricts the k- factor, not the thermal response. To put your mind at ease in case you were thinking that it could mean that the TC just has been asked or thought about this issue, read on. Unlike storage (where we have a faster growing, more challenging fire that could cause too many sprinklers to open), LH or OH would only benefit from a faster response (as shown by the same density but smaller area for all spray sprinklers). Roland NFPA required caveat that this is my opinion and not that of NFPA or any of its technical committees. On Jul 2, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Todd - FPDC wrote: I am recommending replacing all of the sprinklers on a pipe schedule system in a school. SR or QR heads? Sent from my iPhone ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860.535.2080 www.fpdc.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120703/a48ed701/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860.535.2080 www.fpdc.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120703/c337ebd9/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860.535.2080 www.fpdc.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
Head replacement on pipe sched
I am recommending replacing all of the sprinklers on a pipe schedule system in a school. SR or QR heads? Sent from my iPhone ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: Head replacement on pipe sched
Educational is classified as LH, if you're replacing all the heads they should definitely be QR, the explanitory material (at least in the 2010 handbook) suggests even if you overdesign the denisty above LH, if the standard would catagorize it as LH the heads should still be QR. Mike Morey, SET, CFPS Sprinkler Designer BMW Constructors, Inc. O: 317.651.0596 | C: 317.586.8111 www.bmwc.com From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org on behalf of Todd - FPDC Sent: Mon 7/2/2012 11:14 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Head replacement on pipe sched I am recommending replacing all of the sprinklers on a pipe schedule system in a school. SR or QR heads? Sent from my iPhone ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3923 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120702/d471fc4f/attachment.bin ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
Re: Head replacement on pipe sched
I cant think of any reasons why the 13-96 reqmnt for QR in LH wouldn't apply or be a problem. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 2, 2012, at 12:14 PM, Morey, Mike mo...@bmwc.com wrote: Educational is classified as LH, if you're replacing all the heads they should definitely be QR, the explanitory material (at least in the 2010 handbook) suggests even if you overdesign the denisty above LH, if the standard would catagorize it as LH the heads should still be QR. Mike Morey, SET, CFPS Sprinkler Designer BMW Constructors, Inc. O: 317.651.0596 | C: 317.586.8111 www.bmwc.com From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org on behalf of Todd - FPDC Sent: Mon 7/2/2012 11:14 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Head replacement on pipe sched I am recommending replacing all of the sprinklers on a pipe schedule system in a school. SR or QR heads? Sent from my iPhone ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3923 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120702/d471fc4f/attachment.bin ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
Re: Head replacement on pipe sched
I think your asking if it is acceptable to convert an existing pipe schedule with standard response sprinklers to quick response sprinklers. Although you aren't required too change them since it is existing, if I were you AND the sprinklers were going to be changed anyways, I'd go that route. Good question since the schedule was defined using the SR sprinklers. Lets start with 13:22.5.1.2 (2010 ed) which only restricts the k- factor, not the thermal response. To put your mind at ease in case you were thinking that it could mean that the TC just has been asked or thought about this issue, read on. Unlike storage (where we have a faster growing, more challenging fire that could cause too many sprinklers to open), LH or OH would only benefit from a faster response (as shown by the same density but smaller area for all spray sprinklers). Roland NFPA required caveat that this is my opinion and not that of NFPA or any of its technical committees. On Jul 2, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Todd - FPDC wrote: I am recommending replacing all of the sprinklers on a pipe schedule system in a school. SR or QR heads? Sent from my iPhone ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
Re: Head replacement on pipe sched
This is a dry system installed in 1899. The current sprinklers are from 1954 (+/-) and are being replaced due to age. FWIW, we did an internal inspection and are going to do a full flushing as well. At 03:19 PM 7/2/2012, you wrote: I think your asking if it is acceptable to convert an existing pipe schedule with standard response sprinklers to quick response sprinklers. Although you aren't required too change them since it is existing, if I were you AND the sprinklers were going to be changed anyways, I'd go that route. Good question since the schedule was defined using the SR sprinklers. Lets start with 13:22.5.1.2 (2010 ed) which only restricts the k- factor, not the thermal response. To put your mind at ease in case you were thinking that it could mean that the TC just has been asked or thought about this issue, read on. Unlike storage (where we have a faster growing, more challenging fire that could cause too many sprinklers to open), LH or OH would only benefit from a faster response (as shown by the same density but smaller area for all spray sprinklers). Roland NFPA required caveat that this is my opinion and not that of NFPA or any of its technical committees. On Jul 2, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Todd - FPDC wrote: I am recommending replacing all of the sprinklers on a pipe schedule system in a school. SR or QR heads? Sent from my iPhone ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860.535.2080 www.fpdc.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
