Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: flex heads touching stuff

2020-05-19 Thread Joe via Sprinklerforum 
Here are some ceiling grid construction codes that may be applicable:  link
<https://www.slcdocs.com/building/b-grid-ceiling.pdf>
ASTM International, Designation C636/C636M-08 SUMMARY OF STANDARD PRACTICE
FOR SUSPENSION CEILING INSTALLATION

Fixtures shall not be supported from main runners or cross runners if the
weight of the fixture causes the total dead load to exceed
the deflection capability of the ceiling suspension system. In such cases,
the fixture load shall be support by supplemental
hangers within 6 in. [150 mm] of each corner, or the fixture shall be
separately supported.


ASTM International, Designation E580/E580M-09a SUMMARY OF STANDARD PRACTICE
FOR SUSPENSION CEILING INSTALLATION IN SEISMIC
ACTIVITY ZONES, IN ADDITION TO ASTM 636  (SERVICES WITHIN THE CEILING)


   - *Flexible sprinkler hose fittings*, ceiling mounted air terminals or
  other services weighing less than 20 lb [9 kg] shall be
  positively attached to the ceiling suspension main runners or to
  cross runners that have the same carrying capacity as the main runners.
  - F*lexibility sprinkler hose fittings*, air terminals or other
  services weighing less than 20 lb [9 kg] but less than 56 lb [25
kg] shall
  have, in addition to the requirements in 5.4.1, two No 12-gauge [2.70 mm]
  hanger wires connected from the terminal or service to the ceiling system
  hangers or to the structure above that act as safety wires. It is not
  necessary for these wires to be taut.
  - *Flexible sprinkler hose fittings*, ceiling mounted air terminals
  or other services weighing more that 56 lb [25 kg] shall be supported
  directly from the structure above by approved hangers.

I hope this helps.
Joe


On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 2:42 PM John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> Peter - Fully understand.  NFPA 25 is currently open for public input.and
> AFSA will be submitting a input on this.  We are encouraging others to do
> the same.
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
> John August Denhardt, PE
> *Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services*
>
> *American Fire Sprinkler Association*
> m: p: 301-343-1457
> 214-349-5965 ext 121
> w: firesprinkler.org
> <https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/>
> <https://twitter.com/afsa/status/1039528345367732224>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-fire-sprinkler-association-afsa-/>
><https://www.instagram.com/firesprinklerorg/>
>
> *Help AFSA “Sound the Alarm” about sprinklers!*
>
> AFSA’s charitable partner the American Red Cross is educating millions
> through its Home Fire Preparedness Campaign. Help us support the inclusion
> of fire sprinklers in their messaging.  Donate today!
> <https://www.redcross.org/donate/cm/afsa-pub.html/>
>
>
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 2:30 PM Larrimer, Peter A (HEFP\10NA5B) via
> Sprinklerforum  wrote:
>
>> Some AHJs are interpreting that anything touching the sprinkler piping is
>> a violation of NFPA 25, specifically 5.2.2.2.  While it might not be the
>> intent to restrict things from touching sprinkler piping, items such as
>> insulation or a wire just touching (not being hung from) a sprinkler pipe,
>> even when only touching the side of the pipe, have been cited. Until we can
>> clarify NFPA 25, for those of us battling these AHJs, it is easier to
>> mandate that nothing touches the sprinkler piping just so we don’t get
>> cited by (TJC and CMS) during accreditation surveys.  I don’t recall them
>> citing flexible drops sitting on a ceiling though.
>>
>>
>>
>> *5.2.2* Pipe and Fittings. *Sprinkler pipe and fittings shall be
>>
>> inspected annually from the floor level.
>>
>> *A.5.2.2 *The conditions described in 5.2.2 can have a detrimental
>>
>> effect on the performance and life of pipe by affecting
>>
>> corrosion rates or pipe integrity or otherwise rendering the
>>
>> pipe ineffectual.
>>
>> *5.2.2.1* *Pipe and fittings shall be free of mechanical damage,
>>
>> leakage, and corrosion.
>>
>> *5.2.2.2 *Sprinkler piping shall not be subjected to external
>>
>> loads by materials either resting on the pipe or hung from the
>>
>> pipe.
>>
>>
>>
>> Pete Larrimer
>>
>> VA
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sprinklerforum  *On
>> Behalf Of *Joe via Sprinklerforum
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2020 1:51 PM
>> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>> *Cc:* Joe ; John Denhardt <
>> jdenha...@firesprinkler.org>
>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: flex heads touching stuff
>>
>>
>>
>> I can only speak from an electrical standpoint... For elect

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: flex heads touching stuff

2020-05-19 Thread John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum 
Peter - Fully understand.  NFPA 25 is currently open for public input.and
AFSA will be submitting a input on this.  We are encouraging others to do
the same.

Thanks,
John

John August Denhardt, PE
*Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services*

*American Fire Sprinkler Association*
m: p: 301-343-1457
214-349-5965 ext 121
w: firesprinkler.org
<https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/>
<https://twitter.com/afsa/status/1039528345367732224>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-fire-sprinkler-association-afsa-/>
   <https://www.instagram.com/firesprinklerorg/>

*Help AFSA “Sound the Alarm” about sprinklers!*

AFSA’s charitable partner the American Red Cross is educating millions
through its Home Fire Preparedness Campaign. Help us support the inclusion
of fire sprinklers in their messaging.  Donate today!
<https://www.redcross.org/donate/cm/afsa-pub.html/>


On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 2:30 PM Larrimer, Peter A (HEFP\10NA5B) via
Sprinklerforum  wrote:

> Some AHJs are interpreting that anything touching the sprinkler piping is
> a violation of NFPA 25, specifically 5.2.2.2.  While it might not be the
> intent to restrict things from touching sprinkler piping, items such as
> insulation or a wire just touching (not being hung from) a sprinkler pipe,
> even when only touching the side of the pipe, have been cited. Until we can
> clarify NFPA 25, for those of us battling these AHJs, it is easier to
> mandate that nothing touches the sprinkler piping just so we don’t get
> cited by (TJC and CMS) during accreditation surveys.  I don’t recall them
> citing flexible drops sitting on a ceiling though.
>
>
>
> *5.2.2* Pipe and Fittings. *Sprinkler pipe and fittings shall be
>
> inspected annually from the floor level.
>
> *A.5.2.2 *The conditions described in 5.2.2 can have a detrimental
>
> effect on the performance and life of pipe by affecting
>
> corrosion rates or pipe integrity or otherwise rendering the
>
> pipe ineffectual.
>
> *5.2.2.1* *Pipe and fittings shall be free of mechanical damage,
>
> leakage, and corrosion.
>
> *5.2.2.2 *Sprinkler piping shall not be subjected to external
>
> loads by materials either resting on the pipe or hung from the
>
> pipe.
>
>
>
> Pete Larrimer
>
> VA
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum  *On
> Behalf Of *Joe via Sprinklerforum
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2020 1:51 PM
> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> *Cc:* Joe ; John Denhardt <
> jdenha...@firesprinkler.org>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: flex heads touching stuff
>
>
>
> I can only speak from an electrical standpoint... For electrical:
>
> https://www.ecmweb.com/national-electrical-code/qa/article/20887010/code-qa
>
>
>
>
> Raceways, cable assemblies, boxes, cabinets, and fittings must be securely
> fastened in place. The ceiling-support wires or ceiling grid must not be
> used to support raceways and cables (power, signaling, or communications).
>
>
>
> So, you cannot even run a thermostat cable on top of the grid.
>
>
>
> From a general standpoint, one cannot just let every trade drape things
> across the grid. Then you cannot raise the grid to do any work because
> every trade has draped across it.
>
>
>
> I assume that there is a similar code reference in the fire sprinkler
> code, but maybe not.
>
>
>
> Joe
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.]ᐧ
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 11:59 PM John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum <
> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:
>
> I received this comment directly from Victaulic.  I copies the applicable
> section::
>
>
>
> *John is correct in his response, there is no issue or code prohibiting
> VicFlex from touching another component above the ceiling or the ceiling
> itself. The question may arise regarding weight/load impact on the ceiling
> grid system. The Annex of NFPA 13 addresses this along with the VicFlex
> submittal.  Adding a slick wire or other secondary support to the VicFlex
> hose or bracket will void the listing of the product and prevent the
> flexible sprinkler assembly from working as intended – attaching directly
> to the ceiling structure to maintain proper sprinkler position if settling
> or differential movement occur.*
>
>
>
> I hope this helps.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
>
> John August Denhardt, PE
>
> *Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services*
>
> *American Fire Sprinkler Association*
>
> m: p:
>
> 301-343-1457
> 214-349-5965 ext 121
>
> w:
>
> firesprinkler.org
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
> <https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/>  [image: I

RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: flex heads touching stuff

2020-05-19 Thread Larrimer, Peter A (HEFP\10NA5B) via Sprinklerforum 
Some AHJs are interpreting that anything touching the sprinkler piping is a 
violation of NFPA 25, specifically 5.2.2.2.  While it might not be the intent 
to restrict things from touching sprinkler piping, items such as insulation or 
a wire just touching (not being hung from) a sprinkler pipe, even when only 
touching the side of the pipe, have been cited. Until we can clarify NFPA 25, 
for those of us battling these AHJs, it is easier to mandate that nothing 
touches the sprinkler piping just so we don’t get cited by (TJC and CMS) during 
accreditation surveys.  I don’t recall them citing flexible drops sitting on a 
ceiling though.

5.2.2* Pipe and Fittings. Sprinkler pipe and fittings shall be
inspected annually from the floor level.
A.5.2.2 The conditions described in 5.2.2 can have a detrimental
effect on the performance and life of pipe by affecting
corrosion rates or pipe integrity or otherwise rendering the
pipe ineffectual.
5.2.2.1* Pipe and fittings shall be free of mechanical damage,
leakage, and corrosion.
5.2.2.2 Sprinkler piping shall not be subjected to external
loads by materials either resting on the pipe or hung from the
pipe.

Pete Larrimer
VA

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Joe via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 1:51 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Joe ; John Denhardt 

Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: flex heads touching stuff

I can only speak from an electrical standpoint... For electrical:
https://www.ecmweb.com/national-electrical-code/qa/article/20887010/code-qa

Raceways, cable assemblies, boxes, cabinets, and fittings must be securely 
fastened in place. The ceiling-support wires or ceiling grid must not be used 
to support raceways and cables (power, signaling, or communications).

So, you cannot even run a thermostat cable on top of the grid.

From a general standpoint, one cannot just let every trade drape things across 
the grid. Then you cannot raise the grid to do any work because every trade has 
draped across it.

I assume that there is a similar code reference in the fire sprinkler code, but 
maybe not.

Joe
[Image removed by sender.]ᐧ

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 11:59 PM John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 wrote:
I received this comment directly from Victaulic.  I copies the applicable 
section::

John is correct in his response, there is no issue or code prohibiting VicFlex 
from touching another component above the ceiling or the ceiling itself. The 
question may arise regarding weight/load impact on the ceiling grid system. The 
Annex of NFPA 13 addresses this along with the VicFlex submittal.  Adding a 
slick wire or other secondary support to the VicFlex hose or bracket will void 
the listing of the product and prevent the flexible sprinkler assembly from 
working as intended – attaching directly to the ceiling structure to maintain 
proper sprinkler position if settling or differential movement occur.

I hope this helps.

John

[Image removed by sender.]
John August Denhardt, PE
Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services
American Fire Sprinkler Association
m: p:
301-343-1457
214-349-5965 ext 121
w:
firesprinkler.org<http://firesprinkler.org>
[Image removed by sender.]<https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/>  [Image 
removed by sender.] <https://twitter.com/afsa/status/1039528345367732224>   
[Image removed by sender.] 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-fire-sprinkler-association-afsa-/>   
[Image removed by sender.] <https://www.instagram.com/firesprinklerorg/>
Help AFSA “Sound the Alarm” about sprinklers!
AFSA’s charitable partner the American Red Cross is educating millions through 
its Home Fire Preparedness Campaign. Help us support the inclusion of fire 
sprinklers in their messaging.  Donate 
today!<https://www.redcross.org/donate/cm/afsa-pub.html/>


On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 4:08 PM cw bamford via Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 wrote:
Ceilings should be installed to ASTM C635/C635M
maximum unsupported length  does not exceed 6'...

most new ceilings are designed to handle weight of light fixtures and other 
things
but it does have its limits

Chuck Bamford

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 12:08 PM Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 wrote:
We received a comment on an above ceiling inspection that flex drops are not 
allowed to touch anything above the ceiling. I have not seen any information 
requiring that. Has anyone seen anything similar?

Matt

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Re: flex heads touching stuff

2020-05-19 Thread Joe via Sprinklerforum 
I can only speak from an electrical standpoint... For electrical:
https://www.ecmweb.com/national-electrical-code/qa/article/20887010/code-qa

Raceways, cable assemblies, boxes, cabinets, and fittings must be securely
fastened in place. The ceiling-support wires or ceiling grid must not be
used to support raceways and cables (power, signaling, or communications).

So, you cannot even run a thermostat cable on top of the grid.

>From a general standpoint, one cannot just let every trade drape things
across the grid. Then you cannot raise the grid to do any work because
every trade has draped across it.

I assume that there is a similar code reference in the fire sprinkler code,
but maybe not.

Joe
ᐧ

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 11:59 PM John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> I received this comment directly from Victaulic.  I copies the applicable
> section::
>
> *John is correct in his response, there is no issue or code prohibiting
> VicFlex from touching another component above the ceiling or the ceiling
> itself. The question may arise regarding weight/load impact on the ceiling
> grid system. The Annex of NFPA 13 addresses this along with the VicFlex
> submittal.  Adding a slick wire or other secondary support to the VicFlex
> hose or bracket will void the listing of the product and prevent the
> flexible sprinkler assembly from working as intended – attaching directly
> to th**e ceiling structure to maintain proper sprinkler position if
> settling or differential movement occur.*
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> John
>
> John August Denhardt, PE
> *Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services*
>
> *American Fire Sprinkler Association*
> m: p: 301-343-1457
> 214-349-5965 ext 121
> w: firesprinkler.org
> 
> 
> 
>
>
> *Help AFSA “Sound the Alarm” about sprinklers!*
>
> AFSA’s charitable partner the American Red Cross is educating millions
> through its Home Fire Preparedness Campaign. Help us support the inclusion
> of fire sprinklers in their messaging.  Donate today!
> 
>
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 4:08 PM cw bamford via Sprinklerforum <
> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:
>
>> Ceilings should be installed to ASTM C635/C635M
>> maximum unsupported length  does not exceed 6'...
>>
>> most new ceilings are designed to handle weight of light fixtures and
>> other things
>> but it does have its limits
>>
>> Chuck Bamford
>>
>> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 12:08 PM Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum <
>> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:
>>
>>> We received a comment on an above ceiling inspection that flex drops are
>>> not allowed to touch anything above the ceiling. I have not seen any
>>> information requiring that. Has anyone seen anything similar?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>>>
>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
>>>
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>>
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>>
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Re: flex heads touching stuff

2020-05-18 Thread John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum 
I received this comment directly from Victaulic.  I copies the applicable
section::

*John is correct in his response, there is no issue or code prohibiting
VicFlex from touching another component above the ceiling or the ceiling
itself. The question may arise regarding weight/load impact on the ceiling
grid system. The Annex of NFPA 13 addresses this along with the VicFlex
submittal.  Adding a slick wire or other secondary support to the VicFlex
hose or bracket will void the listing of the product and prevent the
flexible sprinkler assembly from working as intended – attaching directly
to th**e ceiling structure to maintain proper sprinkler position if
settling or differential movement occur.*

I hope this helps.

John

John August Denhardt, PE
*Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services*

*American Fire Sprinkler Association*
m: p: 301-343-1457
214-349-5965 ext 121
w: firesprinkler.org



   

*Help AFSA “Sound the Alarm” about sprinklers!*

AFSA’s charitable partner the American Red Cross is educating millions
through its Home Fire Preparedness Campaign. Help us support the inclusion
of fire sprinklers in their messaging.  Donate today!



On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 4:08 PM cw bamford via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> Ceilings should be installed to ASTM C635/C635M
> maximum unsupported length  does not exceed 6'...
>
> most new ceilings are designed to handle weight of light fixtures and
> other things
> but it does have its limits
>
> Chuck Bamford
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 12:08 PM Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum <
> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:
>
>> We received a comment on an above ceiling inspection that flex drops are
>> not allowed to touch anything above the ceiling. I have not seen any
>> information requiring that. Has anyone seen anything similar?
>>
>>
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Sprinklerforum mailing list
>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>>
>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
>>
> ___
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>
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>
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Re: flex heads touching stuff

2020-05-18 Thread cw bamford via Sprinklerforum 
Ceilings should be installed to ASTM C635/C635M
maximum unsupported length  does not exceed 6'...

most new ceilings are designed to handle weight of light fixtures and other
things
but it does have its limits

Chuck Bamford

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 12:08 PM Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> We received a comment on an above ceiling inspection that flex drops are
> not allowed to touch anything above the ceiling. I have not seen any
> information requiring that. Has anyone seen anything similar?
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
> ___
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
>
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RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: flex heads touching stuff

2020-05-18 Thread Michael Hill via Sprinklerforum 
That is what we used. The inspector was concerned about the excess flexible 
hose that was laying on the ceiling, as well as a few that passed thru a tight 
space between duct and ceiling. We were required, in this building, to use 
flexible hose longer than we normally would to accommodate ‘future’ renovations.

Mike Hill

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Prahl, Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 3:51 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Prahl, Craig/GVL ; Matt Grise ; 
John Denhardt 
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: flex heads touching stuff

The flex drops I’ve seen and used all have a bracket that attaches to the grid 
and secures the drop.  It’s part of their listing that the bracket is used for 
specific installations.

Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | 
craig.pr...@jacobs.com<mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com> | 
www.jacobs.com<http://www.jacobs.com/>
1041 East Butler Road   Greenville, South Carolina  29606

From: Sprinklerforum 
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>]
 On Behalf Of Michael Hill via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 1:20 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: Michael Hill
Subject: RE: flex heads touching stuff

We have been told by one jurisdiction that we must support the flex so that it 
does not rest on the ceiling. I haven’t seen anything to back that up either, 
but was easier to comply than to argue.

Mike Hill

From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 3:09 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: Matt Grise mailto:m...@afpsprink.com>>
Subject: flex heads touching stuff

We received a comment on an above ceiling inspection that flex drops are not 
allowed to touch anything above the ceiling. I have not seen any information 
requiring that. Has anyone seen anything similar?

Matt

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RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: flex heads touching stuff

2020-05-18 Thread Prahl, Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum 
The flex drops I’ve seen and used all have a bracket that attaches to the grid 
and secures the drop.  It’s part of their listing that the bracket is used for 
specific installations.

Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | 
craig.pr...@jacobs.com<mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com> | 
www.jacobs.com<http://www.jacobs.com/>
1041 East Butler Road   Greenville, South Carolina  29606

From: Sprinklerforum 
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>]
 On Behalf Of Michael Hill via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 1:20 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: Michael Hill
Subject: RE: flex heads touching stuff

We have been told by one jurisdiction that we must support the flex so that it 
does not rest on the ceiling. I haven’t seen anything to back that up either, 
but was easier to comply than to argue.

Mike Hill

From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 3:09 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: Matt Grise mailto:m...@afpsprink.com>>
Subject: flex heads touching stuff

We received a comment on an above ceiling inspection that flex drops are not 
allowed to touch anything above the ceiling. I have not seen any information 
requiring that. Has anyone seen anything similar?

Matt

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Re: flex heads touching stuff

2020-05-18 Thread John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum 
No - but I will research it.

Thanks,
John

John August Denhardt, PE
*Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services*

*American Fire Sprinkler Association*
m: p: 301-343-1457
214-349-5965 ext 121
w: firesprinkler.org
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*Help AFSA “Sound the Alarm” about sprinklers!*

AFSA’s charitable partner the American Red Cross is educating millions
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<https://www.redcross.org/donate/cm/afsa-pub.html/>


On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:39 PM Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> That is what I thought – but since I could not (quickly) locate text that
> said touching was ok, I just pushed the flex drop a little so it was not
> touching.
>
>
>
> It was one of those things where I thought the AHJ was wrong, but it took
> virtually no effort to comply.
>
>
>
> Any idea where it might be written that touching is ok?
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum  *On
> Behalf Of *John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum
> *Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2020 2:36 PM
> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> *Cc:* John Denhardt 
> *Subject:* Re: flex heads touching stuff
>
>
>
> What I have been taught and read, no sprinkler unrelated material can be
> supported by the flexible sprinkler drop.  The drop may touch other
> material as long as the other material does not place a load onto the
> sprinkler drop.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
>
>
> John August Denhardt, PE
>
> *Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services*
>
> *American Fire Sprinkler Association*
>
> m: p:
>
> 301-343-1457
> 214-349-5965 ext 121
>
> w:
>
> firesprinkler.org
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffiresprinkler.org=E,1,uyFy-4keuh87OY7v-gINdA6k8xVMLxeg7jP9BDYI3GMX3yOZA0VMC_pr4N6AoW41XeLaRg951Qun8W-X4F7zWxf9_VdGYGFPnj9Ywg0s5gBnq9XYr5tk=1>
>
>
> <https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/>
> <https://twitter.com/afsa/status/1039528345367732224>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-fire-sprinkler-association-afsa-/>
><https://www.instagram.com/firesprinklerorg/>
>
> *Help AFSA “Sound the Alarm” about sprinklers!*
>
> AFSA’s charitable partner the American Red Cross is educating millions
> through its Home Fire Preparedness Campaign. Help us support the inclusion
> of fire sprinklers in their messaging.  Donate today!
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.redcross.org%2fdonate%2fcm%2fafsa-pub.html%2f=E,1,lIyrb9HbY3KXvbGrrF1af-eotTwkymBGPjgWCsMgKbO__IVXS9Yv4x9N4ddPg-4sKQOQJFq5Bl2THPLiYS52FBSei1KlrDrrvJvXbG4V_31fCWlgkNUR5Q,,=1>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:28 PM Bob Knight via Sprinklerforum <
> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:
>
> Isn’t the purpose of using the flex so that it moves with the ceiling?
>
> Supporting it apart from the ceiling seems that it would defeat the
> purpose.
>
>
>
> As far as touching anyting, that may be an AHJ preference, but not a
> listing requirement.  Ask for the code/ listing reference that is being
> cited.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Bob Knight, CET III
>
> Fire by Knight, LLC
>
> 208-318-3057
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:
> sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] *On Behalf Of *Michael
> Hill via Sprinklerforum
> *Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2020 1:20 PM
> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> *Cc:* Michael Hill
> *Subject:* RE: flex heads touching stuff
>
>
>
> We have been told by one jurisdiction that we must support the flex so
> that it does not rest on the ceiling. I haven’t seen anything to back that
> up either, but was easier to comply than to argue.
>
>
>
> Mike Hill
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum  *On
> Behalf Of *Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum
> *Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2020 3:09 PM
> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> *Cc:* Matt Grise 
> *Subject:* flex heads touching stuff
>
>
>
> We received a comment on an above ceiling inspection that flex drops are
> not allowed to touch anything above the ceiling. I have not seen any
> information requiring that. Has anyone seen anything similar?
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> ___
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> Sprinkler

RE: flex heads touching stuff

2020-05-18 Thread Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum 
That is what I thought – but since I could not (quickly) locate text that said 
touching was ok, I just pushed the flex drop a little so it was not touching.

It was one of those things where I thought the AHJ was wrong, but it took 
virtually no effort to comply.

Any idea where it might be written that touching is ok?

Matt


From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 2:36 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: John Denhardt 
Subject: Re: flex heads touching stuff

What I have been taught and read, no sprinkler unrelated material can be 
supported by the flexible sprinkler drop.  The drop may touch other material as 
long as the other material does not place a load onto the sprinkler drop.

Thanks,
John

[https://www.dropbox.com/s/g4h8r7hdtsr6154/AFSA_L.png?raw=1]
John August Denhardt, PE
Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services
American Fire Sprinkler Association
m: p:
301-343-1457
214-349-5965 ext 121
w:
firesprinkler.org<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffiresprinkler.org=E,1,uyFy-4keuh87OY7v-gINdA6k8xVMLxeg7jP9BDYI3GMX3yOZA0VMC_pr4N6AoW41XeLaRg951Qun8W-X4F7zWxf9_VdGYGFPnj9Ywg0s5gBnq9XYr5tk=1>
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<https://twitter.com/afsa/status/1039528345367732224>   
[http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/184235/dev_images/signature_app/linkedin_sig.png]
 <https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-fire-sprinkler-association-afsa-/>  
 
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 <https://www.instagram.com/firesprinklerorg/>
Help AFSA “Sound the Alarm” about sprinklers!
AFSA’s charitable partner the American Red Cross is educating millions through 
its Home Fire Preparedness Campaign. Help us support the inclusion of fire 
sprinklers in their messaging.  Donate 
today!<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.redcross.org%2fdonate%2fcm%2fafsa-pub.html%2f=E,1,lIyrb9HbY3KXvbGrrF1af-eotTwkymBGPjgWCsMgKbO__IVXS9Yv4x9N4ddPg-4sKQOQJFq5Bl2THPLiYS52FBSei1KlrDrrvJvXbG4V_31fCWlgkNUR5Q,,=1>


On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:28 PM Bob Knight via Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 wrote:
Isn’t the purpose of using the flex so that it moves with the ceiling?
Supporting it apart from the ceiling seems that it would defeat the purpose.

As far as touching anyting, that may be an AHJ preference, but not a listing 
requirement.  Ask for the code/ listing reference that is being cited.


Thank you,

Bob Knight, CET III
Fire by Knight, LLC
208-318-3057

From: Sprinklerforum 
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>]
 On Behalf Of Michael Hill via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 1:20 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: Michael Hill
Subject: RE: flex heads touching stuff

We have been told by one jurisdiction that we must support the flex so that it 
does not rest on the ceiling. I haven’t seen anything to back that up either, 
but was easier to comply than to argue.

Mike Hill

From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 3:09 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: Matt Grise mailto:m...@afpsprink.com>>
Subject: flex heads touching stuff

We received a comment on an above ceiling inspection that flex drops are not 
allowed to touch anything above the ceiling. I have not seen any information 
requiring that. Has anyone seen anything similar?

Matt

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Re: flex heads touching stuff

2020-05-18 Thread John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum 
What I have been taught and read, no sprinkler unrelated material can be
supported by the flexible sprinkler drop.  The drop may touch other
material as long as the other material does not place a load onto the
sprinkler drop.

Thanks,
John

John August Denhardt, PE
*Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services*

*American Fire Sprinkler Association*
m: p: 301-343-1457
214-349-5965 ext 121
w: firesprinkler.org
<https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/>
<https://twitter.com/afsa/status/1039528345367732224>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-fire-sprinkler-association-afsa-/>
   <https://www.instagram.com/firesprinklerorg/>

*Help AFSA “Sound the Alarm” about sprinklers!*

AFSA’s charitable partner the American Red Cross is educating millions
through its Home Fire Preparedness Campaign. Help us support the inclusion
of fire sprinklers in their messaging.  Donate today!
<https://www.redcross.org/donate/cm/afsa-pub.html/>


On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:28 PM Bob Knight via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> Isn’t the purpose of using the flex so that it moves with the ceiling?
>
> Supporting it apart from the ceiling seems that it would defeat the
> purpose.
>
>
>
> As far as touching anyting, that may be an AHJ preference, but not a
> listing requirement.  Ask for the code/ listing reference that is being
> cited.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Bob Knight, CET III
>
> Fire by Knight, LLC
>
> 208-318-3057
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:
> sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] *On Behalf Of *Michael
> Hill via Sprinklerforum
> *Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2020 1:20 PM
> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> *Cc:* Michael Hill
> *Subject:* RE: flex heads touching stuff
>
>
>
> We have been told by one jurisdiction that we must support the flex so
> that it does not rest on the ceiling. I haven’t seen anything to back that
> up either, but was easier to comply than to argue.
>
>
>
> Mike Hill
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum  *On
> Behalf Of *Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum
> *Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2020 3:09 PM
> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> *Cc:* Matt Grise 
> *Subject:* flex heads touching stuff
>
>
>
> We received a comment on an above ceiling inspection that flex drops are
> not allowed to touch anything above the ceiling. I have not seen any
> information requiring that. Has anyone seen anything similar?
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
> ___
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
>
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RE: flex heads touching stuff

2020-05-18 Thread Bob Knight via Sprinklerforum 
Isn't the purpose of using the flex so that it moves with the ceiling?

Supporting it apart from the ceiling seems that it would defeat the purpose.

 

As far as touching anyting, that may be an AHJ preference, but not a listing
requirement.  Ask for the code/ listing reference that is being cited.

 

 

Thank you,

 

Bob Knight, CET III

Fire by Knight, LLC

208-318-3057

 

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Michael Hill via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 1:20 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Michael Hill
Subject: RE: flex heads touching stuff

 

We have been told by one jurisdiction that we must support the flex so that
it does not rest on the ceiling. I haven't seen anything to back that up
either, but was easier to comply than to argue.

 

Mike Hill

 

From: Sprinklerforum  On
Behalf Of Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 3:09 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Matt Grise 
Subject: flex heads touching stuff

 

We received a comment on an above ceiling inspection that flex drops are not
allowed to touch anything above the ceiling. I have not seen any information
requiring that. Has anyone seen anything similar?

 

Matt 

 

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RE: flex heads touching stuff

2020-05-18 Thread Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum 
That was my general response. It was faster to push 5 flex drops a inch than it 
was to request a code reference. It still seemed a little odd.

Matt


From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Michael Hill via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 2:20 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Michael Hill 
Subject: RE: flex heads touching stuff

We have been told by one jurisdiction that we must support the flex so that it 
does not rest on the ceiling. I haven't seen anything to back that up either, 
but was easier to comply than to argue.

Mike Hill

From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 3:09 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: Matt Grise mailto:m...@afpsprink.com>>
Subject: flex heads touching stuff

We received a comment on an above ceiling inspection that flex drops are not 
allowed to touch anything above the ceiling. I have not seen any information 
requiring that. Has anyone seen anything similar?

Matt

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RE: flex heads touching stuff

2020-05-18 Thread Michael Hill via Sprinklerforum 
We have been told by one jurisdiction that we must support the flex so that it 
does not rest on the ceiling. I haven't seen anything to back that up either, 
but was easier to comply than to argue.

Mike Hill

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 3:09 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Matt Grise 
Subject: flex heads touching stuff

We received a comment on an above ceiling inspection that flex drops are not 
allowed to touch anything above the ceiling. I have not seen any information 
requiring that. Has anyone seen anything similar?

Matt

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