Re: [Standards] Council Minutes 2018-02-14

[Kevin Smith]

On 14 Feb 2018, at 16:55, Dave Cridland  wrote:
> 3) Deprecate XEP-0071 XHTML-IM -
> http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2018-02-14/#16:03:14
> 
> https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0071.html
> 
> Dave noted this was the very specific case of embedding an XHTML
> subset into IM messages, and was not deprecating or otherwise
> expressing any opinion on other cases of embedding XHTML into XMPP
> traffic.
> 
> All present +1

+1

> 4) Deprecate XEP-0013 Flexible Offline Message Retrieval -
> http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2018-02-14/#16:05:12
> 
> https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0013.html
> 
> There was a significant debate about this, and the wider question of
> how and when to deprecate XEPs. Georg and Dave both noted that this
> XEP appears to be an actively used mechanism for purging or
> suppressing offline messages, and Daniel noted that he also used it.
> Sam noted that much of the XEP was not used, however, and a more
> useful method should be created. There was a general discussion over
> whether, in the absence of such a replacement method, Council should
> deprecate the XEP. Sam argued that it would sent a clear signal that
> such a protocol were needed, but Dave and Georg both argued that in
> this instance, our best recommendation was indeed to implement that
> portion of XEP-0013. Daniel noted this, too, has problems.
> 
> [ I have tried to write this neutrally but probably failed - but as an
> addendum, if someone wants to write a replacement that'd be most
> welcome - I think everyone present agreed that the XEP was old and
> crusty and a MAM-aware replacement needs to be done ]
> 
> Daniel: ±0
> Sam: +1
> Georg and Dave: -1

I’m +0 here. We would discourage implementation of any part of 13 other than 
the clearing stuff, for which this is probably not the ideal solution either. 
But we don’t have another mechanism for doing the clearing at the moment.
The simplest thing would probably be to obsolete 13, extract that one paragraph 
into a new XEP that goes straight to Draft (with the same namespaces) and be 
happy.

> 5) Deprecate XEP-0137 Publishing Stream Initiation Requests -
> http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2018-02-14/#16:12:15
> 
> https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0137.html
> 
> Dave noted that there was no modern replacement here, either, but
> being based on SI it was clearly deprecated in principle. Florian
> Schmaus, from the floor, noted XEP-0358 does actually replace this
> functionality.
> 
> All present +1

+1

/K
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[Standards] Council Minutes 2018-02-14

[Dave Cridland]

1) Roll Call - http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2018-02-14/#16:01:10

Kev sent apologies.

Daniel, Dave, Georg and Sam present.

Kev shall vote on-list for everything.

2) Embarrassed shuffling as everyone realises it's St Valentine's Day
and nobody thought to buy the Chair some nice flowers

Georg provided a rose emoji, which was very thoughtful.

3) Deprecate XEP-0071 XHTML-IM -
http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2018-02-14/#16:03:14

https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0071.html

Dave noted this was the very specific case of embedding an XHTML
subset into IM messages, and was not deprecating or otherwise
expressing any opinion on other cases of embedding XHTML into XMPP
traffic.

All present +1

4) Deprecate XEP-0013 Flexible Offline Message Retrieval -
http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2018-02-14/#16:05:12

https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0013.html

There was a significant debate about this, and the wider question of
how and when to deprecate XEPs. Georg and Dave both noted that this
XEP appears to be an actively used mechanism for purging or
suppressing offline messages, and Daniel noted that he also used it.
Sam noted that much of the XEP was not used, however, and a more
useful method should be created. There was a general discussion over
whether, in the absence of such a replacement method, Council should
deprecate the XEP. Sam argued that it would sent a clear signal that
such a protocol were needed, but Dave and Georg both argued that in
this instance, our best recommendation was indeed to implement that
portion of XEP-0013. Daniel noted this, too, has problems.

[ I have tried to write this neutrally but probably failed - but as an
addendum, if someone wants to write a replacement that'd be most
welcome - I think everyone present agreed that the XEP was old and
crusty and a MAM-aware replacement needs to be done ]

Daniel: ±0
Sam: +1
Georg and Dave: -1

5) Deprecate XEP-0137 Publishing Stream Initiation Requests -
http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2018-02-14/#16:12:15

https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0137.html

Dave noted that there was no modern replacement here, either, but
being based on SI it was clearly deprecated in principle. Florian
Schmaus, from the floor, noted XEP-0358 does actually replace this
functionality.

All present +1

6) Voting Reminders - http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2018-02-14/#16:15:40

Georg voted +1 to advance XEP-0234 to Draft.

7) AOB - http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2018-02-14/#16:16:56

Georg noted he'd like to see more discussion on HTTP upload and custom
HTTP headers. Daniel suggested 5 hours was possibly sufficient. Dave
said he was sticking to his -1 since all this needs a mention in the
Security Considerations.

8) Next Meeting - http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2018-02-14/#16:28:32

Same XMPP Time, Same XMPP Channel.

9) Ite, Meeting Est - http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2018-02-14/#16:29:15
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