Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-18 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 9:47 PM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote: Could you briefly explain what bundling forces means? How about rowing in sync? From LWN's coverage: For a while now, Mark has been pushing the idea of a coordinated cadence across multiple projects.

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-16 Thread Simon Schampijer
On 06/14/2010 08:03 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 16:15, Bernie Innocentiber...@codewiz.org wrote: El Sat, 12-06-2010 a las 10:26 +0200, Simon Schampijer escribió: PS I'm sure Walter will back me up here! Can someone explain me what a development manager is? Didn't we

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-16 Thread James Cameron
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 06:27:55PM +0200, Simon Schampijer wrote: I saw the talk from Mark Shuttleworth at Linuxtag and he said a few words on Releases, and why is makes sense to bundle forces. Basically, bundling forces is a powerful idea behind open source. We are a small project, if we

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-14 Thread Tomeu Vizoso
On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 16:15, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: El Sat, 12-06-2010 a las 10:26 +0200, Simon Schampijer escribió: PS I'm sure Walter will back me up here! Can someone explain me what a development manager is? Didn't we talk about about Release Management? I hope

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-13 Thread Hal Murray
Actually these are the exact same problems that could be solved much better with some kind of per activity DS (not the Android one, which would be a little bit overkill). I mean that even making or not making deltas is dependent on the object the activity stores and the deltifier is also

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-12 Thread Simon Schampijer
On 06/11/2010 03:30 PM, Peter Robinson wrote: On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Michael Stonemich...@laptop.org wrote: Hi folks, Under the temporary working hypothesis that we want to make a Sugar release in a couple of months, I'd like to know more about what we might find ourselves

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-12 Thread Bernie Innocenti
El Sat, 12-06-2010 a las 10:26 +0200, Simon Schampijer escribió: PS I'm sure Walter will back me up here! Can someone explain me what a development manager is? Didn't we talk about about Release Management? I hope people don't want to throw away what we have been establishing over the

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-12 Thread Peter Robinson
On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: On 06/11/2010 03:30 PM, Peter Robinson wrote: On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Michael Stonemich...@laptop.org  wrote: Hi folks, Under the temporary working hypothesis that we want to make a Sugar release in a

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-12 Thread Bernie Innocenti
El Sat, 12-06-2010 a las 01:15 -0400, Chris Ball escribió: Hi, Why it is just a pipe dream? 1. Python does not have anything like the DALVIK virtual machine so every Python process consumes a lot of memory. Because of this, implementing the above infrastructure would

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-12 Thread Bernie Innocenti
El Thu, 10-06-2010 a las 14:24 -0400, Martin Langhoff escribió: On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: - Reworking the datastore... while I welcome efforts in a new datastore... _every Sugar release has a new DS implementation_ and they get

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-12 Thread Benjamin M. Schwartz
On 06/12/2010 10:49 AM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: Besides, the assumption that VCS-style deltas will work well with the binary files stored by most Sugar activities is... wishful at best. It is one thing to say that we need a new datastore, and another to say what the new datastore should look

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-12 Thread NoiseEHC
Besides, the assumption that VCS-style deltas will work well with the binary files stored by most Sugar activities is... wishful at best. A design working in real-world scenarios would probably require ad-hoc deltifiers for each file format, making it very complex, slow and fragile.

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-12 Thread Bernie Innocenti
El Sat, 12-06-2010 a las 20:45 +0200, NoiseEHC escribió: Actually these are the exact same problems that could be solved much better with some kind of per activity DS (not the Android one, which would be a little bit overkill). I mean that even making or not making deltas is dependent on

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-11 Thread Peter Robinson
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Michael Stone mich...@laptop.org wrote: Hi folks, Under the temporary working hypothesis that we want to make a Sugar release in a couple of months, I'd like to know more about what we might find ourselves integrating. Here's my current list of, er... mostly

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-11 Thread Chris Ball
Hi, Why it is just a pipe dream? 1. Python does not have anything like the DALVIK virtual machine so every Python process consumes a lot of memory. Because of this, implementing the above infrastructure would consume all available RAM and so would not work. Linux memory

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-10 Thread Lucian Branescu
On 10 June 2010 04:28, Jameson Quinn jameson.qu...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/6/9 Luke Faraone l...@faraone.cc -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/2010 08:11 PM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: As far as I know, Browse is still the only hulahop user on this planet, so it's not

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-10 Thread Bernie Innocenti
El Wed, 09-06-2010 a las 23:46 -0300, Gonzalo Odiard escribió: SocialCalc depends of hulahop. My activity Elements too. Ugh. BTW, SocialCalc hardcodes a 3-second delay for localization which opens a race condition. It works intermittently on the XO-1 with Sugar 0.84 and it probably fails to

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-10 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 12:54 AM, Michael Stone mich...@laptop.org wrote: Under the temporary working hypothesis that we want to make a Sugar release in a couple of months, I'd like to know more about what we might find ourselves integrating. Here's my current list of, er... mostly unvetted

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-10 Thread Aleksey Lim
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 11:48:50AM -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 12:54 AM, Michael Stone mich...@laptop.org wrote: Under the temporary working hypothesis that we want to make a Sugar release in a couple of months, I'd like to know more about what we might find

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-10 Thread Benjamin M. Schwartz
On 06/10/2010 11:48 AM, Martin Langhoff wrote: - 0install and Vala are controversial, risky and not focussed on pressing end-users' needs. Yes there are some benefits and potential to both (otherwise Aleksey would not be working on them! :-) ) but they also break lots of toys. In my view,

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-10 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:  - Reworking the datastore... while I welcome efforts in a new datastore... _every Sugar release has a new DS implementation_ and they get little testing and I've seen extremely light thinking about what is

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-10 Thread NoiseEHC
It seems that I cannot stop myself killing some kittens: As I see the problem is that the DS wants to solve a lot of problems in a general way. I think that this is simply impossible. A lot of companies tried to create some general storage abstraction other that files, but all of them failed

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-10 Thread NoiseEHC
You are not explaining why this will happen, so this point is moot. The reason is that it seems that it is impossible to do. I just extrapolated historical data. So we're indexing the data automatically, but we still don't have a datastore? Please explain how that would work. The

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-10 Thread Martin Langhoff
2010/6/10 NoiseEHC noise...@freemail.hu: It seems that I cannot stop myself killing some kittens: Well. Do kill some metaphorical kittens but... maybe... try to avoid being a /perfect example of CADT/. Or maybe it's a good joke and I need to relax ;-) m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-10 Thread Aleksey Lim
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 02:28:01PM -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: In my view, OLPC's ARM announcement creates a pressing problem of avoiding total confusion and fragmentation between different CPU

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-09 Thread Aleksey Lim
On Tue, Jun 08, 2010 at 12:54:01AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: Hi folks, Under the temporary working hypothesis that we want to make a Sugar release in a couple of months, I'd like to know more about what we might find ourselves integrating. Here's my current list of, er... mostly unvetted

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-09 Thread Lucian Branescu
On 8 June 2010 05:54, Michael Stone mich...@laptop.org wrote: Hi folks, Under the temporary working hypothesis that we want to make a Sugar release in a couple of months, I'd like to know more about what we might find ourselves integrating. Here's my current list of, er... mostly unvetted

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-09 Thread Peter Robinson
Hi Lucian, On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Lucian Branescu lucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 June 2010 05:54, Michael Stone mich...@laptop.org wrote: Hi folks, Under the temporary working hypothesis that we want to make a Sugar release in a couple of months, I'd like to know more about

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-09 Thread Sameer Verma
On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 9:54 PM, Michael Stone mich...@laptop.org wrote: Hi folks, Under the temporary working hypothesis that we want to make a Sugar release in a couple of months, I'd like to know more about what we might find ourselves integrating. Here's my current list of, er... mostly

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-09 Thread Bernie Innocenti
El Wed, 09-06-2010 a las 13:30 +0100, Lucian Branescu escribió: After some debate on what exactly I should be doing, I've decided that it's both prudent and relatively easy to make that abstraction layer after all. Since I last used it, pywebkitgtk's API has grown much closer to hulahop's, so

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-09 Thread Lucian Branescu
Folding hulahop into this abstraction layer could possibly make sense. Let me finish it first, though. Hulahop has a lot of weird code and a lot of XPCOM magic. Both pywebkitgtk and hulahop have very similar WebView classes. My wrapper now offers some extra methods for engine-specific bits and a

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-09 Thread Gonzalo Odiard
SocialCalc depends of hulahop. My activity Elements too. Gonzalo On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: El Wed, 09-06-2010 a las 13:30 +0100, Lucian Branescu escribió: After some debate on what exactly I should be doing, I've decided that it's both

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-09 Thread Luke Faraone
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/2010 08:11 PM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: As far as I know, Browse is still the only hulahop user on this planet, so it's not like we need to keep it around for API compatibility. Actually, hulahop is used by pyjamas[1], as evidenced by these

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-09 Thread Jameson Quinn
2010/6/9 Luke Faraone l...@faraone.cc -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/2010 08:11 PM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: As far as I know, Browse is still the only hulahop user on this planet, so it's not like we need to keep it around for API compatibility. Actually, hulahop

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-08 Thread Walter Bender
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 12:54 AM, Michael Stone mich...@laptop.org wrote: Hi folks, Under the temporary working hypothesis that we want to make a Sugar release in a couple of months, I'd like to know more about what we might find ourselves integrating. Here's my current list of, er... mostly

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-08 Thread Walter Bender
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 12:54 AM, Michael Stone mich...@laptop.org wrote: Hi folks, Under the temporary working hypothesis that we want to make a Sugar release in a couple of months, I'd like to know more about what we might find ourselves integrating. Here's my current list of, er... mostly

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-08 Thread Peter Robinson
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Michael Stone mich...@laptop.org wrote: Hi folks, Under the temporary working hypothesis that we want to make a Sugar release in a couple of months, I'd like to know more about what we might find ourselves integrating. Here's my current list of, er... mostly

[Sugar-devel] Hypothetical sugar-0.90 material, draft 1.

2010-06-07 Thread Michael Stone
Hi folks, Under the temporary working hypothesis that we want to make a Sugar release in a couple of months, I'd like to know more about what we might find ourselves integrating. Here's my current list of, er... mostly unvetted rumors. :) 1. Aleksey: 0install integration, Vala-based