Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On 10 June 2016 at 23:38, Laura Vargas wrote: > > Teams is how we do free software. It is part of the experience of doing > software > in a collaborative way. The free software projects I've been involved in do software development in a collaborative way using anarchist

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Dave thanks for all your efforts to keep our community moving ;D 2016-06-11 9:35 GMT+08:00 Dave Crossland : > On 10 June 2016 at 15:00, Laura Vargas wrote: > > I guess getting back to life the Deployment Team may help establish an > > effective interaction

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On 10 June 2016 at 15:00, Laura Vargas wrote: > I guess getting back to life the Deployment Team may help establish an > effective interaction cycle among Sugar Labs Developers and Deployments > teams. I oppose the creation of all committees and teams; I propose

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

2016-06-08 15:15 GMT+08:00 Walter Bender : > It is also the case that many deployments are very slow to update Sugar. > Some XO1s are still running versions using a version of the Sugar toolkit > that has been deprecated for almost 8 years (This is specific to XO1s since

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On 9 June 2016 at 00:23, Tony Anderson wrote: > I hope that answers your questions. Thanks for explaining :) Well, which laptop do you recommend a school purchase for their students today? ___ Sugar-devel mailing list

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Dave The computer industry operates on 'price points'. The problem for it is that a chip manufacturer cannot afford to produce many variations on its chips. Therefore, artificial means are used to create a range of products (hence, overclocking). A 'cheap' computer is one produced for a lower

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Hi Tony I am eager to read your response to my questions below :) On 30 May 2016 at 09:38, Dave Crossland wrote: > > Hi > > On 30 May 2016 at 00:00, Tony Anderson wrote: >> >> I am not sure I understand your reference to 'cheapest computers'. > > > The

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

It is also the case that many deployments are very slow to update Sugar. Some XO1s are still running versions using a version of the Sugar toolkit that has been deprecated for almost 8 years (This is specific to XO1s since this version of Sugar was never shipped even on XO1.5). I recently made the

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Well, the XO1.75 and XO4 are arm. And aren't all ARM devices special snowflakes that need more kernel patches than even Ubuntu would slap on Gtk? On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 12:34 PM, Dave Crossland wrote: On 29 May 2016 at 22:02, Sam P. wrote: Supporting XO1s is

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On 29 May 2016 at 22:02, Sam P. wrote: > Supporting XO1s is more than just performance though. XOs don't run normal, > up to date versions of fedora. Why is this? ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On 30 May 2016 12:36:37 PM AEST, Dave Crossland wrote: >Hi > >I want to return to this older thread because of James Cameron's >comment in >https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/pull/688#issuecomment-222393275 : > >On the assumption that Sugar Labs is dropping support for XO-1, I'll

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s {Windows}

On 15 April 2016 at 20:12, Samuel Greenfeld wrote: > A GTK expert might be able to point us to the current preferred approach. Does anyone here know any? Today I've reached out to 2, Simon Feltman, and ex-Sugar-developer Tomeu Vizoso.

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Hi, Dave No, I intended it to go to the list. Thanks, Tony On 05/30/2016 06:23 PM, Dave Crossland wrote: Hi did you intend to reply offlist? On 30 May 2016 at 01:23, Tony Anderson > wrote: Hi, Dave My first impression of the

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Hi On 30 May 2016 at 00:00, Tony Anderson wrote: > I am not sure I understand your reference to 'cheapest computers'. > The cheap computers of any year are always much slower, have less RAM, etc etc, than median computers of that year. > As far as I can tell, the

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Hi, Dave I am not sure I understand your reference to 'cheapest computers'. As far as I can tell, the Raspberry Pi Zero is a scam. The pocketchip illustrates the problem with the Raspberry Pi. Once you add the components needed to make a useful, deployable computer - the cost is greater than

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Hi I want to return to this older thread because of James Cameron's comment in https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/pull/688#issuecomment-222393275 : On the assumption that Sugar Labs is dropping support for XO-1, I'll close this pull request. Thanks for your time! But I understood from Tony and

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s {Windows}

I gather there is a lot of skepticism about Microsoft's announcement. I was intrigued by the marketing opportunity to show potential sponsors of deployments that they can run Sugar on their laptop as a Microsoft program. As I understood the announcement, it should be possible to set up a

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s {Windows}

A more direct way to support Windows would be to use the Windows port of the GTK toolkit. This has been done before: https://blogs.gnome.org/kittykat/2014/01/29/developing-gtk-3-apps-with-python-on-windows/ A GTK expert might be able to point us to the current preferred approach. On Wed, Apr

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 1:59 AM, Tony Anderson wrote: > This new capability is intended to eliminate the need for cygwin No doubt MS likes any initiative against Red Hat. I think they want to simplify server administration in a mixed-OS environment from a Windows

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 2:49 AM, Dave Crossland wrote: > I think users will still need to install and run an X server to run unix > GUI programs; but there are several good X servers for windows, so this > should be easy it's true that I can run some FLOSS GUI software using an

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On 12 April 2016 at 19:59, Tony Anderson wrote: > Bash would not have graphics, but as I understood it Bash would be used to > launch Linux programs which would presumably have access to a Window. I think users will still need to install and run an X server to run unix

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Hi Sean, We'll have to see. This new capability is intended to eliminate the need for cygwin. I understood that Linux programs would be launched using a Bash shell. Naturally, Windows is unable to support the Unix/Linux permissions model (it can't even support the NT model). However, Sugar

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On 12 April 2016 at 08:16, Sean DALY wrote: > On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Tony Anderson > wrote: > >> One development that seems to be ignored on these lists is Microsoft's >> announcement that it will support Bash on Windows 10. As I understand

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Tony Anderson wrote: > One development that seems to be ignored on these lists is Microsoft's > announcement that it will support Bash on Windows 10. As I understand it, > the goal is to be able to run Ubuntu programs on Windows 10 using a

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Sean, One development that seems to be ignored on these lists is Microsoft's announcement that it will support Bash on Windows 10. As I understand it, the goal is to be able to run Ubuntu programs on Windows 10 using a standard 'short-cut'. If so, it is possible that Sugar can run as a

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Excellent analysis. I think Sugar could have an impact in the US if it was extremely easy to install and configure (or "connect to and use"), and teachers would get behind it. Sean On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 11:22 AM, Tony Anderson wrote: > Of course, the question is what

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Of course, the question is what is our market? I think Sugar has no chance to impact the American education market. Chris Doerndorfer presented that point very effectively at the Malaysia summit noting that major requests for proposals by UNESCO, USAID, and others eliminated proposals of Sugar

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 09:31:31AM -0400, Dave Crossland wrote: > On 11 April 2016 at 05:04, James Cameron <[1]qu...@laptop.org> wrote: > > OLPC, Inc.  Not OLPC Association.  Anybody who has referred to > Association is talking about a previous organisation. > > I'm still getting my

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On 11 April 2016 at 05:04, James Cameron wrote: > OLPC, Inc. Not OLPC Association. Anybody who has referred to > Association is talking about a previous organisation. > I'm still getting my bearings with all this. The foundation and the association have closed, but the Inc

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 09:58:15PM -0400, Dave Crossland wrote: > > Hi James! > > Brilliant answer, thank you :)  > > On 10 April 2016 at 18:26, James Cameron <[1]qu...@laptop.org> wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 09, 2016 at 08:47:35AM -0400, Dave Crossland wrote: > > > > On 9 April 2016 at

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On 8 April 2016 at 09:26, Walter Bender wrote: > the XO-4 was the machine we aspired to build in 2006-7 That's a powerful quote, I think :) But it seems premature for use of the past-tense - XO-4s are available today brand new in modest quantities. Or do you think

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

James Cameron's engaging OLPC's emergent last-mile communities forthrightly (below) is *precisely* the ingredient that was missing in 2008 (evolution of http :// wiki.laptop.org

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On 8 April 2016 at 16:23, Walter Bender wrote: > Just need a mechanism for accessing a supply of XO-4s... > >> Who has bought XO-4s, and in what quantities? ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On Sat, Apr 09, 2016 at 08:47:35AM -0400, Dave Crossland wrote: > > On 9 April 2016 at 06:31, James Cameron <[1]qu...@laptop.org> wrote: > > The XO-4 is in production. > > What's the minimum order from OLPC? :)  You are asking for the minimum order quantity (MOQ) of the XO-4. I don't

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 5:57 AM, Dave Crossland wrote: > Finding ten ritzy private primary schools in the US where the parents can > drop $400 in a hat shouldn't be too hard for a savvy sales person I'd like to think that's so, but it may well be more likely that parents would be

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On 9 April 2016 at 06:31, James Cameron wrote: > The XO-4 is in production. > What's the minimum order from OLPC? :) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

The XO-4 is in production. On Sat, Apr 09, 2016 at 12:51:48PM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote: > Go! I think only XO-4 are in production (although Rwanda is using > the XO-1.75 so that may also be available). > > Tony > > On 04/09/2016 11:57 AM, Dave Crossland wrote: > >Hi > > > >10,000. Okay. How

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Go! I think only XO-4 are in production (although Rwanda is using the XO-1.75 so that may also be available). Tony On 04/09/2016 11:57 AM, Dave Crossland wrote: Hi 10,000. Okay. How about this? I suppose a batch of 10,000 costs $200 each from OLPC, that's a $2M capital outlay. That's

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Hi 10,000. Okay. How about this? I suppose a batch of 10,000 costs $200 each from OLPC, that's a $2M capital outlay. That's just 10 schools with 4 year groups each, at 250 laptops per year group. Finding ten ritzy private primary schools in the US where the parents can drop $400 in a hat

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Dave Crossland wrote: > > On 7 April 2016 at 21:43, Dave Crossland wrote: > >> On 1 April 2016 at 01:24, Adam Holt wrote: >> >>> In Haiti XO-1s will be dominant across many schools for years and year >>> to come.

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On 7 April 2016 at 21:43, Dave Crossland wrote: > On 1 April 2016 at 01:24, Adam Holt wrote: > >> In Haiti XO-1s will be dominant across many schools for years and year to >> come. Similar to Tony's description, but these typically will be using >> 32GB SD cards

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On 8 April 2016 at 08:08, Sean DALY wrote: > On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 5:26 AM, Dave Crossland wrote: > >> Does any one have an idea of the cost of 1000 32GB SD cards? >>> >> >> I expect about $2,000, would need some more fishing about in >>

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:56 PM, Tony Anderson wrote: > Dave, > > This is an example of how powerful our community could be. Naturally, we > would need to nail down this price - Amazon quotes about $10 each. There > has been a lot of discussion in the community on the

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:04 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 9:43 PM, Dave Crossland wrote: > >> Hi Adam! >> >> On 1 April 2016 at 01:24, Adam Holt wrote: >> >>> In Haiti XO-1s will be dominant across many schools for

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Dave, This is an example of how powerful our community could be. Naturally, we would need to nail down this price - Amazon quotes about $10 each. There has been a lot of discussion in the community on the viability of sd cards from different manufacturers. With a little effort we may be able

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On 7 April 2016 at 22:54, Tony Anderson wrote: > AFIK, the Government of Rwanda annual fiscal year begins July 1. Some one > may have access to the records, but there are probably 1000 XO-1s deployed > there. Does any one have an idea of the cost of 1000 32GB SD cards? >

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Hi On 7 April 2016 at 22:04, Walter Bender wrote: > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 9:43 PM, Dave Crossland wrote: > >> >> A layer of Scotch tape remedies the trackpad problem in many cases. > ... > The keyboard is more robust than most think. In PY and NE kids

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

AFIK, the Government of Rwanda annual fiscal year begins July 1. Some one may have access to the records, but there are probably 1000 XO-1s deployed there. Does any one have an idea of the cost of 1000 32GB SD cards? Perhaps, that could be added to the MinEduc budget. The cost to deploy the SD

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Hi Adam! On 1 April 2016 at 01:24, Adam Holt wrote: > In Haiti XO-1s will be dominant across many schools for years and year to > come. Similar to Tony's description, but these typically will be using > 32GB SD cards -- thankfully these are incredibly affordable. > What is

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On 6 April 2016 at 17:24, Sean DALY wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Dave Crossland wrote: > >> How many kids is Sugar targetting? >> >> Low millions? Or billions? >> > > A few years ago, I estimated at around 10 million the number of teachers > in

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On 6 April 2016 at 10:48, Martin Dengler wrote: > Sugar is not a technology. Ahhh come on man, you know what I mean :) I was pretty clear that I am talking about https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/graphs/contributors If you have ever put a UI in front of kids That

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On Tue, Apr 05, 2016 at 08:46:15PM -0400, Dave Crossland wrote: Sugar is basically a 10 year old technology. Sugar is not a technology. And the Sugar desktop's age is less than git, javascript, C, HTML, DNS, IPv6, and lots of other things. If there is one thing I'd wish for pedagogical

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Hi, Walter +1 The effort is amazing. The issue is going forward. We still have a large number of XO-1s, XO-1.5s and XO-1.75s deployed and hopefully in daily use. This community is the only source of maintenance for these units. As many have said, this gives us a moral requirement not to turn

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Hi James! On 5 April 2016 at 19:04, James Cameron wrote: > On Tue, Apr 05, 2016 at 07:37:45AM -0400, Dave Crossland wrote: > > > > Hi James > > > > On 1 April 2016 at 15:06, James Cameron <[1]qu...@laptop.org> wrote: > > > > Let me spin you a tail. > > > > The myth of

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Hi Martin! On 5 April 2016 at 13:13, Martin Dengler wrote: > > On 5 Apr 2016, at 06:37, Dave Crossland wrote: > Hi James > > > On 1 April 2016 at 15:06, James Cameron wrote: >> >> Do not target a rapidly diminishing enthusiastic

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Hi James On 1 April 2016 at 15:06, James Cameron wrote: > Let me spin you a tail. > > The myth of forward human development doesn't apply to software. > > This is a parade of people, several walking abreast, beside a slow > moving flat bed truck, all holding on to a ribbon. >

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

Let me spin you a tail. The myth of forward human development doesn't apply to software. This is a parade of people, several walking abreast, beside a slow moving flat bed truck, all holding on to a ribbon. The truck is the world, and the internet as it stands. The first person, next to the

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 11:30:46PM -0400, Dave Crossland wrote: > Does anyone know (roughly) how many active XO-1 users there are in > the world today?  No, but it won't be more than about a million. There's more than the XO-1 though. Contrary to what Tony said, the XO-1 is only 45% of the XO

Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

In Haiti XO-1s will be dominant across many schools for years and year to come. Similar to Tony's description, but these typically will be using 32GB SD cards -- thankfully these are incredibly affordable. The resilience/repairability of the XO-1 laptops is the absolutely fascinating part.