Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] soas live cd on MacBook? How?
I have a new macbook, but have seen issue 1 and not 2. Is there some sequence of usb/cd creation I should try that might produce the problem? Its intel mac only, right? My partner has a desktop mac running leopard, but its intel also. I can later try on this setup if it would be of value. Cheers, James. 2009/5/23 Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.com Hi Caryl, How is it going? I know of two potentail issues. 1. Getting the right materials. At sugar camp we found that the USB created on the macbook was not working, only a PC created USB seemed to work. Plus you need both the USB and the boot helper. 2. some macbooks have a bug, when you boot everything goes fine through most of the boot and just when you are about to get to Sugar you get a mostly black screen with a sqiggle in the middle. Where are you at? I especially need people with problem #2 because I don't have a test machine that shows it and its a show stopper for me for all work in Boston Public Schools because their macbooks have this issue. Thanks, Caroline 2009/5/20 Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com Hi, I downloaded soas-beta.iso to my MacBook and burned it to a disk. I would like to get it to boot and be usable on the MacBook. Does anyone know how to do this? Thanks, Caryl ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] #650 UNSP: Screenshots to use name of current activity as part of its default title
I added an updated patch as a file with this bug (650) Whomever is in control, please updated any remaining trivial bugs and I will review. I am new to python and opensource development, but seek to improve rapidly. Thanks for you patience. -- Ticket URL: http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/650 Sugar Labs http://sugarlabs.org/ Sugar Labs bug tracking system ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: journal criticism (was Re: Re: Re: [IAEP] [RELEASE] TurtleArt-51)
I did not know there was much debate about this, because for me the journal in its current state made sense for the target audience of sugar. Understanding hierarchical file structures use the concepts of containers and recursion with no limits (except for total capacity). It is not naturally intuitive, like a tree where branches get smaller from the trunk with fruit/leaves only at the end nodes. Empirically I've seen many new people approach computers (non-tech elder-relatives included), and hierarchical structures are not initially utilised. It was a secondary focus that had to be learnt out of necessity. At the time I would say this was due to a lack filters at their disposal. Tools such as GoogleDesktop or, more evidently, OS X Spotlight are conceptually more approachable to a beginner/non-tech person, and further defers the need to learn about their tool rather than just using it effectively immediately. Perhaps an activity/game could be made that teaches the concepts of a hierarchical file structure. It could demonstrate inifite recursion with inifinite capacity at each node, but reward good storage somehow. Once they complete the game to a certain level, then they can unlock heirarchical file structures in journal? But I think there is enough on everyone plates for now before this gets considered. Cheers, James 2009/5/27 Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org [forgot to add IAEP and sugar-devel] -- Forwarded message -- From: Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org Date: Wed, May 27, 2009 at 12:11 Subject: journal criticism (was Re: Re: Re: [IAEP] [RELEASE] TurtleArt-51) To: fors...@ozonline.com.au Cc: Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com Hi all, see my replies inline below. To everybody who would like to join this conversation: please change the subject line accordingly or this thread will become hard to follow. On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 04:54, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: Hi Tomeu Walter I am happy to expand this to the list. I have raised the journal once or twice before but mainly kept quiet not wanting to be trollish. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2008-August/001475.html more but i cant easily find The journal and sharing are probably the two central things that distinguish sugar as as a purpose built learning platform. The team have a huge investment of time and energy and are rightly proud of their achievement. That presents a problem for constructive discussion around the journal, the last thing I want to do is be trollish and destructive. For me, the workings behind the journal are hidden and there is a lack of tools to make it do different things when the default operation is not what you want. Also temporal and tagging is fine as a primary method of storage but hierarchical storage is not offered as an alternate method. in addition to today's filename issue, other problems that I can remember: altering the filenames and extensions of email attachments Could you please expand on this use case? offline web pages do not navigate because the directory structure is lost This is scheduled to be addressed in 0.86 by downloading the page as a zip file and storing that in the journal. can't inspect or alter mime to force something to open This could be fixed in the journal easily, with no need to refactor or throw out anything. We need more people to help us with developing Sugar further. journal spam In 0.84 landed several modifications that should improve this somehow, have you seen if that helped? (I haven't found a way to select a block so every spam item has to be individually deleted Would be awesome to be able to operate on multiple items at once, but unfortunately it hasn't been implemented yet. resume by default will probably cause students to lose work) Versioning in the journal is scheduled for 0.86, which should address this one. accidental overwriting of files through autosave Same as in the previous one, if I understand it correctly. Thanks for the feedback. Adding Tomeu, but we should probably expand the discussion to the list. I cannot argue with you that the fact that the Journal hid information from the user is a problem--really I would characterize it as a bug. But the goal of the Journal wasn't to simplify (and certainly not to hide information from the user) as much as it was to provide a representation of the file system that is first and foremost temporal rather than hierarchical with an emphasis on annotating, tagging, and searching rather than browsing. Secondary goals are automatic recording of actions and objects and the ability to extract from the Journal highlights. These latter goals could as well be accomplished using a hierarchical representation, but still would require a database backend of some sort. -walter On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 7:18 PM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: Thanks, I now have V51 on my XO
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] journal criticism
Not sure where my complete email went... something to do with awaiting approval I think. But just for clarity to all, I said the arrowed text. 2009/5/28 Albert Cahalan acaha...@gmail.com James Zaki writes: Understanding hierarchical file structures use the concepts of containers and recursion with no limits (except for total capacity). It is not naturally intuitive, like a tree where branches get smaller from the trunk with fruit/leaves only at the end nodes. Empirically I've seen many new people approach computers (non-tech elder-relatives included), and hierarchical structures are not initially utilised. It was a secondary focus that had to be learnt out of necessity. Perhaps the concept is easier to learn as a child. If you've gone many decades without it (non-tech elder relatives) and gotten set in your ways, you may be at a disadvantage. Let's not leave the next generation at a disadvantage too. Perhaps an activity/game could be made that teaches the concepts of a hierarchical file structure. That won't get enough use. Learning to deal with the general features of modern computing is much of the reason why the XO even exists, yet the children are denied the opportunity to learn about directories. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] classroom presenter, iTalc for sugar (possible ports for LinuxTag Berlin showoff)
I am very interested in the digital whiteboard at LinuxTag. I will be going, and would love to be a part of it if you need some help. Once I get my system(s) back up (tagging fedora bugs along the way). I will try take a look into the Classroom presenter activity. 2009/5/28 David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com Hi, At LinuxTag Berlin, there are 3 areas that are of particular interest to me, and might be considered novelties in the way sugar can/will be presented there. From one side, I will be representing sugar packaging on the openSUSE platform, and being part of the opensuse-edu team, we will show off not only the live suse sugar cd/usb stick, but also the tight integration (including desktop launch icon) of sugar within the openSUSE 11.1 educational spin. Since kiwi-ltsp (A mature variant of LTSP 5) is quite integrated in the educational desktop, as is ejabberd, we will show off LTSP sugarised, with the approximately 50 sugar activities that have been packaged for openSUSE. Within the LTSP framework, we often use an application called iTalc, which allows for the remote administration (vnc on steroids) of desktop sessions, locking of sessions, passing around of sessions (for the classroom environment) as well as, intra station messaging (in case a particular station needs administrative help/training/support.) Right now, it runs great on the administrator machine, which doesn't need to and won't run Sugar. Basically from this view one can see screenshots of each desktop and by clicking on the desktop in question, one takes over or shares that session with that particular sugar user. There is more explanation and screenshots here: http://italc.sourceforge.net/ On the client side, it would be nice for someone to study how hard it would be to port to sugar. Its not massively important since it runs from gnome, but for scenarios where sugar is the only Desktop Environment, it would be nice to have this kind of controlling mechanism for the teacher/admin. For example, the teacher could collaboratively work on one session connected to a projector, and pass that session on friom student to student, with each of them carrying out some task. I have seen it used this way under Gnome with great success, and as Sugar is collaborative by nature, it seems like a perfect fit. So any sugar porting takers? On another note, I have successfully tested the home made whiteboard option using a wiimote and infra red pens. This approach allows for the building of an interactive whiteboard for under 50 euros. Unfortunately, the best software to use for something like this is classroom presenter, originally windows software allowing one to open a powerpoint/impress presenation and then draw upon that using the infra red pen. Classroom presenter was ported to sugar at one point. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Classroom_Presenter , but I'm not sure about its current status, only that it doesn't currently work. Again, it would be nice to fix this activity so we can show it off at LinuxTag and show people how to create a cheap sugarised interactive whiteboard for under 50 euros. If someone is interested in getting this activity working again for Sugar, that would be great. kind Regards, David (nubae) Van Assche www.nubae.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Random numbers and the Journal
I'm using python's random.getrandbits() to generate unique identifiers in my program. However, I've discovered that when I start it from the Journal, I get errors, Perhaps its not the best practice to rely on a random number generator to give unique identifiers. Would you not store a number with your program, to guarantee uniqueness? Unless I have mistaken the issue. 2009/6/5 Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu I'm using python's random.getrandbits() to generate unique identifiers in my program. However, I've discovered that when I start it from the Journal, I get errors, which I can trace to the random number generator producing the same sequence of random numbers that was generated when I started it the first time. It is as if the random seed is being reset every time I launch from the Journal. Does anyone know what's going on here? Thanks, Ben ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Success at the Gardner!
Some people report the trackpad not working just for their Fedora installer. Not sure what you mean by When the boothelper matched. Perhaps catch me on #sugar to discuss (jzGreen). James. 2009/6/5 Dave Bauer d...@solutiongrove.com On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 10:30 AM, James Zaki james.z...@gmail.com wrote: On the macbook front, I've started to chase the trackpad glitch upstream with fedora. Am now running F11 on macbook5,1, but with external mouse. Will update trac when I make progress. James, i used the boothelper CD and if I used a boothelper on an older soas, the trackpad did not work. When the boothelper matched it worked ok. Dave ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] I'm looking for a tree...
Hey Benjamin, Taking a guess with the information you've given perhaps a hash tablehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_tablecould help? Fast lookup/retrieval, but just have to consider what you would enumerate as the key, and loading. Let me know if you want some help applying this, memories of a uni assignment have just come flooding back. James. 2009/6/7 Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu I am looking for a fast data structure with the following properties: Maintains an indexed list of arbitrary, non-ordered objects (like a python List or C array) Allows fast: Insertion at any location Deletion at any location Lookup of an object by its index Reverse lookup, to determine the index of an object Python's List has O(1) lookup, but O(N) insert, delete, and reverse-lookup. To make reverse lookup O(1) I could maintain a separate Dict mapping objects to indices, but this would cost an additional O(N) on every insertion and deletion. A linked list has O(1) insertion and deletion, but O(N) lookup and O(N) reverse lookup. I could maintain a separate Dict for the forward and reverse mappings, but this would cost O(N) on every insertion and deletion. A standard self-balancing tree cannot be used because the objects are not ordered, and self-balancing trees require ordered keys. I could use the index of an object as the sort key, but then insertion and deletion are O(N) because all subsequent keys must be altered. I could fabricate new sort keys to ensure that insertions occur at the desired location, but then the length of the keys will grow like O(N), making all operations at least O(N). I feel like there should be some kind of standard tree-like data structure that meets my requirements, but I can't find one. Do you know of one? Am I on a unicorn hunt? --Ben ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] I'm looking for a tree...
Not sure if you have found an answer to this yet, but with more information about what you're trying to do could help with communicating the right solution. Again I think a hash table can answer your questions about fast-lookup, but it just depends your chosen key, and other requirements you might have about sorting. If its not too sugar specific, feel free to contact me directly. Regards, James. 2009/6/7 Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu Lucian Branescu wrote: Would an ordered dictionary otherwise be all right, or am I misunderstanding your requirements? There are other implementations, like http://www.xs4all.nl/~anthon/Python/ordereddict/http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Eanthon/Python/ordereddict/ No, an ordered dictionary is not enough. All these ordered dictionaries are ordered either by time or by sorting the keys. Neither will work for me. The problem is simple: if I insert something at position 5, I need the object currently at position 5 to move to position 6, and the object currently at position 6 to move to position 7, etc. To accomplish this in an time-ordered odict, I would have to remove all keys subsequent to the insertion point, make the insertion, and then re-insert those keys. That's O(n). To accomplish this in a sorted-order odict, I would have to generate a new key that causes my insertion to occur at the right location. If there are repeated insertions at the same location, generating such keys becomes an O(n) operation. To see this, suppose I am repeatedly inserting at the second position. Initially, the keys are (0,1). The first insertion has to pick a key between 0 and 1, e.g. 0.5. The second insertion has to pick a key between 0 and 0.5: e.g. 0.25. The number of bits required to store these keys to sufficient precision increases by one bit on each insertion. This means that the length of the keys is O(n), so every comparison is O(n). --Ben ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Getting data about the upgrading older machines and SoaS responsiveness.
With regards to the speed issue. I tried SoaS on a USB2.0 (but not high-speed) memory-stick, performance was hideous on a macbook. Using a USB2.0 high-speed memory-stick, performance is great on an eeepc, which has 1G Ram. I know its not small, but its all I have to compare with for now. So from what I have experienced the USB port would be the first target. I'll hopefully get a chance to test on low-RAM school computers tomorrow. James. 2009/6/8 Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 On Sun, Jun 07, 2009 at 07:00:28PM -0400, Luke Faraone wrote: On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 18:43, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: It sound like another great, low impact (I am trying to think of a term like 'carbon foot print' to properly reflect the impact) way of bringing LTSP into the class room. polite or gentle perhaps? or non-invasive? Emphasizing what is avoided: invading - potentially taking over, accidentally or on purpose, the computers Granted, you would *need* to check with your local systems administrator before implementing LTSP. (as opposed to a lower-risk USB-local-booting solution) At my school, for example, netbooting a workstation starts the recloning process of loading a new Windows XP image; setting up LTSP without asking would cause major problems with their work. non-invasive to the _computers_ but invasive to the network infrastructure. So yes, a better term would be good, to not risk sysadmins feeling cheated when learning the hard way that this so-called non-invasive system includes a DHCP daemon, breaking their WiFi hotspots, printers and what not. - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREDAAYFAkosXD0ACgkQn7DbMsAkQLgTYwCeNg687lF4eEXrGw9SqB62AGih 5WQAniL/ZEmBKsZ8zVMCRmPlNnScHmE5 =lu5m -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)
+1 Bert and others my2cents Outside of the opensource world I've seen many non-mainstream groups become too thinly spread due the many dedicated individuals involved together. I've seen in first hand in a few different sports, and know of it in a couple of other examples, such as French left wing political parties. I dont want to repeat everyone, but I fully agree with SoaS being Fedora, and other distros a seperate thing for those want to do that. If distro support was a task for the sweet sugar people there would be less resources on actual sugar development. Forgive me, as I tend to have a habit of stating the obvious. James /my2cents Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:53:48 +0200 From: Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC) To: Sugar-dev Devel sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org Cc: Marketing market...@lists.sugarlabs.org, IAEP List i...@lists.sugarlabs.org Message-ID: 4c153f4b-8bb5-4583-a9a2-f5620667a...@freudenbergs.de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes On 18.06.2009, at 20:28, David Van Assche wrote: Soas = sugar on a stick whether that be on Fedora, Suse, debian, or mandriva... they are all the same thing, and I would argue SoaS is NOT a distro... just a dsitribution mechanism... for example, I call my opensuse based sugar on stick SoaS too, as that is technically what it is... You can call that whatever you want, but please not in public. SoaS means a very specific distro, not just any Linux+Sugar slapped onto a USB flash drive. On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Sean DALYsdaly...@gmail.com wrote: I beg everyone's pardon, I was under the impression that SoaS is Fedora-specific... are there plans to do versions based on other distros? No, there are no such plans currently. IMHO we should not water down the meaning of SoaS. - Bert - ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Journal feature request--more data in main display
Perhaps this is a late reply, (I am yet to read the last 6 or so digests of to 20+ that were in my inbox) But I am always sensitive of little incremental additions that seem like it would be useful. I always try to think about the first time I used sugar. In particular, what helped by being very simple. We see sugar evolving, and perhaps forget what it was like that first time. Perhaps we should harass some friends and families' kids who've not seen it, and get their feedback. If a child new to the sugar interface (XO or otherwise) feels bombarded with options, it could make things harder. Just my two cents I always voice on this. In particular to the pictures, apart from the two identical cloud icons, there are lots of activities in that dropdown. Has that always been so big? To me that would be intimidating for the first user experience. James. Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 04:25:54 + From: Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Journal feature request--more data in main display To: Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com Cc: Sugar Devel sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org Message-ID: 20090703042553.ga15...@antilopa-gnu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, Jul 03, 2009 at 04:29:47AM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote: On 2 Jul 2009, at 02:40, Gary C Martin wrote: On 1 Jul 2009, at 10:54, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 18:14, Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com wrote: - Better Anything toolbar filter palette (use a grid layout to minimise scrolling) Yeah, that will be great. I think Walter already submitted a patch to move the file types up. Yea, saw the patch from Walter, that alone should help even if we stall on doing more. I have a mock-up I was experimenting with grid layouts, still tinkering, and I can't think of a good 'filter' icon for the replacement button (a common one seems to be a funnel shape) :-) The Journal filters for 'Anything', 'Anytime', the proposed 'Anyone', and my below 'Tag' filters can all become toolbar icons (not text). This saves a heap of toolbar space, and allows room for a couple more buttons on the far right for 'Grid' and current 'List' view. Aleksey was keen to see any Journal mock-up work in progress I had, early as possible, so here's where I'm at :-) There's plenty to do still, images are intended to help bounce ideas about, poke at the grey matter between our ears, and get a feel for how things could (or not) be done: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Proposals/Journal#Tollbar_and_palettes Some thoughts: * what about adding ultra compact list view for objects(not actions) like list view in Library[1] the purpose is, if user has lots of objects it could be useful idea to show as much as possible objects on one screen * having several column/grid layouts for example its very useful for books to have columns for author, genre, date; so, user can see the whole valuable info at once and sort objects by these columns; and so separate layouts for video audio etc. files * additional types of filters for example Library has[2] several types to filter objects * user tags * object traits(additional columns from previous section) like author, genre, date for books * activity creators(grouping by activity_id field) * types of objects(like top section in filter palette)[3] * filter by participants * filter by sources(if we are in shared mode) I'm not sure that all of these modes are useful, but something could be(or another types) * several levels of chosen filters dunno about others but for me its very useful (see bottom panel on [4]) for example I can filter all text/plane files and separate from them only objects that were made by Terminal activity [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:-3.png [2] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:-1.png [3] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Proposals/Journal#.232 [4] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:-4.png -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
