Re: How to buy a freerunner
Same boat, east cost, near Niagara Falls/Rochester area, NY/USA. And before a thousand people from NYC chime in, no we can't meet up for you to get it. Rochester is 6+ hours away from the city. Mine is an A5 with buzz fix applied. Has Android on it right now and works reasonably well, but never really made it to being my daily phone as the bluetooth headset stuff never did work right in any distro. Original box, charger, stylus, 2 batteries, 2G card, AND external GPS antenna w/ proper connector. I wound up getting an N900, which was a hair closer to my needs over all. Would consider gifting it (free) to a college kid with interest time to develop for it. Otherwise, a small amount for it would be awesome. -Woody Paul pault...@gmail.com wrote: = I too have a free runner, i live in the US. I'm willing to let it go cheaply. Paul On Aug 6, 2012 1:03 PM, Rune Gangstø runeg...@gmail.com wrote: If anyone are interested in my freerunner I do not want much for it. 40 Euros + shipping. Is that a fair price? I would like to have some money for it, but you can get it for free from MJ Fahmi. I do not think you have much to loose there as you just have to pay shipping :-) About mine: It is used, a while ago it was used as my daily phone, now it has just been inactive for one year maybe. It works fine, it has installed Android at the moment. There is a protective film in front of the screen, a little worn. This is included in the package. - Original box - charger - battery - 4gb memory card (can be included if interested) - OpenMoko sleve Anything more that I have forgotten? Original stylus is sadly enough broken :-( I am located in Norway and has as mentioned a sister who might be off to Switzerland in near future. Zürich I think it is. If this is close I guess she can hand it over. Anyway. This is an used item but in good condition. Take the free one if you'd like to only pay for the shipping :-) Best regards Rune 2012/8/6 Michael Parchet mparc...@sunrise.ch Le 06.08.12 15:50, Rune Gangstø a écrit : Hello, Yes I am interested but I wold like to know if ithis phone is is still sold by the Switzerland distributor and I wold like to bee sure that you made me not a scam ? how to be sure you are honest ? If I have any problem , the support is there always active, what about the warranty where are you ? Tanks for your answer Best regards mparchet Hi! I have one as well. Make a bid if you are interested. I think my sister is going to Switzerland in a couple of weeks, but I am not completely sure. She has lived there before and still has a boyfriend there. Anyhow. I can ship it by mail as well. If there are anyone interested you can send me an email :-) Best regards Rune 2012/8/6 Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen ad...@leinir.dk On Monday 06 August 2012 15:29:45 Michael Parchet wrote: Hello, I have interested to buy a freeruner I live in switzerland. but I have reed that the freerunner was stopped But one day I have reed that the progect developpement was resumed by another company ? Wat's the exact news about the freerunner ? can I still buy it now ? Tanks for your answer Best regards mparchet Well, i have one sitting upstairs that i'm not using, if that has an interest. Attempted to sell it to someone previously, but that deal fell through. Comes with a zagg screen protector installed and an SD card. It is one of the first batches and has not been buzz-fixed, just to be on the up and up :) -- ..Dan // Leinir.. http://leinir.dk/ Co- existence or no existence - Piet Hein ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing listsupport@lists.openmoko.orghttps://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Myth of Missed Phone calls confirmed!
I think *most* people don't know they need to update the firmware. Maybe we should put this in a prominent place, on the main page for OM maybe? I follow both lists, and saw the discussions about if updates would be made available. Then saw a release of version 9 and then 10, but it was not recommended for general use. There was also and issue about updating to 10 because it caused problems as I recall? Somehow I missed that version 11 was released and that it's been blessed for general use now. Does version 11 work with alternate distros? For example, does it cause issues with QT, Android, etc? I think that was part of the reason 10 was a no go, since it changed something that made one of the more common releases not work. Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi wrote: = If you don't know, you are probably using the old version. See /GSM/Flashing in the wiki for more information on how to upgrade. How would I get this info? What version of GSM firmware do you use? ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: [FSO] FSO unfunded?
Fernando, Thanks for taking the time and effort to find/post these threads. When most of this was happening I was unable to keep up with the lists and killed threads at a time. Slashdoted was not an attention getting subject for me. :( So basically what I'm getting from that is half the staff are gone (or going), FR work is still back burner, and plan B is the new focus? Awesome. At least now I know where things are... Fernando Martins ferna...@cmartins.nl wrote: = Craig Woodward wrote: What does this mean? That FIC/OM don't have anyone working on it anymore? Is there a new flavor of the year (to be released just after FR3 maybe)? Does FIC/OM have anyone working on software for the FR any more? And when/where was this announced? some relevant threads: - Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-April/044880.html - The future of the Neo Freerunner http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-April/044997.html - Slashdotted http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-April/045048.html - FSO status? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-April/045279.html Regards, Fernando ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: OM2008.12 - basic usage instructions?
Can I make a small request for the next release of 2009.X? When a new release does come out, can we get a tarball/snapshot of the source used to build with posted somewhere along with the image? Yes, I know having history in git is useful, but it's also really nice to have snapshots. Experience tells me that repositories and git servers can go away, but a downloaded tarball generally doesn't. Angus Ainslie nyt...@openmoko.org wrote: = On Thu, 2009-04-09 at 23:53 +0300, Risto H. Kurppa wrote: Looking forward to seeing you updates to the wiki. Don't waste all your time there, we're expecting the new 2009 version of the Openmoko distribution to arrive (well, there was a promise to have something last month already) at some stage. r Having updated information on the getting started page still sounds like a good idea. Om2009 is coming along well and should have a testing version soon. The plan ( is that a promise ? ) was to be doing alpha builds last month. Those are available for download right now in the unstable and experimental distro's. Angus ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
[FSO] FSO unfunded?
What does this mean? That FIC/OM don't have anyone working on it anymore? Is there a new flavor of the year (to be released just after FR3 maybe)? Does FIC/OM have anyone working on software for the FR any more? And when/where was this announced? Sebastian Spaeth sebast...@sspaeth.de wrote: = jeffrey.ratcli...@gmail.com wrote: I think that now FSO is not being funded, I'll switch to SHR, as previously suggested. I don't want to disappoint you, but SHR is FSO plus some UI and application goodness. So it still depends heavily on FSO going forward. spaetz ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Charging the FR in the car
Is there a Wattage? Most chargers that don't list amperage list a wattage instead. If you have the voltage and the wattage you can determine the amperage based on that. Watt = Volt * Amp. So if you know the wattage and voltage, Amp = Watt/Volt. Most car-based converts use a voltage regulator to drop the 12v current to 5v. Since yours is rated as high as 30V, I'm betting it one of the better ones. You may actually be able to pull an amp through it without much problem to the device, but it may get hot, or make the supply lines to the socket warm. I'd try 500ma first and stick with that works, that should be fine. Joachim Ott jo.o...@googlemail.com wrote: = 2009/2/13 Cédric Berger cedric.berge...@gmail.com: On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 16:41, Joachim Ott jo.o...@googlemail.com wrote: I bought an adapter 12V = USB for the cigarette lighter in the car so I can charge the FR while driving. The standard charging at 100 mA is too slow. Are there any objections that I charge at 500 or even 1000 mA? Just depends how much your adapter can deliver. Probably 500mA is ok (even though not all adapters are made for 500mA, I have some chargers rated for 350mA). 1A is quite a lot. Might be ok, but first make sure that the specifications of your charger are ok for 1A output. (note that none of the few car chargers I have are rated for as much as 1A output, but most of them are old phones chargers...) There's only the input voltage specified, 10-30V (it's a Hama 89487, 2 USB type A jacks). I do force 500mA with an adapter I got from an older phone. I don't have the exact specs of the charger, but it works ok. to do that (with latest kernels) : echo 500 /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/pcf50633-mbc/usb_curlim I use the battery package, I'll try it later with 1 A, waiting till the led turns blue. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: [SHR] playing a video with mplayer - at least trying to
Joachim Ott jo.o...@googlemail.com wrote: The first try was with the quicktime-movie on the SD card. I've found on similar devices (keep in mind the FR is only a 400Mhz device) that I have to drop the frame rate to something like 15 or so to get reliable video out of a player at this resolution. ffmpeg is a great re-encoder for such things. I think asking the FR to decompress, rescale and display an image and video at full rate is a bit of a high expectation. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Andriod/Koolu (Was: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12)
I think it was v5, the new version can be found here: http://freerunner.android.koolu.com/release-files They just released Beta1 last night. I'm installing it still, but should have it soon to play with. :) It looks like the kernel is a larger andy-tracking version, so Qi may be needed for this release. The real surprise for me was the front page that states Koolu's image of Android will be installed at Openmoko Factory, selling the device (implied as the GTA02) for the low price of $349. Openmoko Factory? Or FIC? I thought they were separate entities... Ian Darwin i...@darwinsys.com wrote: = Is that the one labeled v5 on the download sites? ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
Funny you mention that... it's the last on my list, since I've tried most of the others but this one has failed to boot after several attempts. I got a new uSD card just for this setup to see if thats what's preventing the boot. So far the only one that works with calls and SMS well is QT, but it crashes regularly when I'm at work. Works fine for hours, but within minutes of entering my work place the phone's GUI goes away and I get some random characters on the screen. I can't even SSH in after that. Gothnet openm...@nastylittlehorse.net wrote: = To Craig and other (fellow) whiners: Try Android. You'll need to update your uboot environment to allow for a bigger kernel, but go here: http://panicking.kicks-ass.org/download/ And check out: http://panicking.kicks-ass.org/blog/ It's not quite production ready yet (in fact it has some showstoppers for everyday use like refusing to boot after some as-yet unidentified config changes, only registering with GSM one boot in two, suspend.. some of which may have been fixed in yesterday's image which I've not tried yet) but... GPS just works, phone calls just work, SMS just works, Wifi works (with a manual directory creation step), the keyboard is good, the interface is pretty, well designed and responsive, the web-browser works. I set up the email app to use my home IMAP server in just a few minutes... GPRS is apparently a WIP, though some success is reported. As I say, not quite there yet, but when a couple more issues around gluing the hardware, kernel and userspace together get sorted out, I think it's going to be the quickest and easiest way to get a fully functioning phone/internet device/GPS out of the Freerunner. I wish I didn't have to say that, but experience with the 2008.x series of software (and two months of attempting to use it as a main phone) left me similarly frustrated. I nearly threw the phone out of the window on several occasions. Just trying to answer a call was a supremely vexatious experience. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Experiences-with-GTA02-and-OM2008.12-%28was-part-of-the-%22Brick%22-thread%29-tp2172759p2186261.html Sent from the Openmoko Support mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Andriod/Koolu (Was: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12)
I've found the the SMS buzz is there, but not as bad with images that have (or boot with) a recent kernel. I seem to recall there was a patch that reduced the SMS buzz, so maybe the more recent kernels have that and that's the reason. It's not that bad to be honest though. Most of the images have had sub-par earpiece volume though. Gothnet openm...@nastylittlehorse.net wrote: Two things I found that stop boots on android images I've used are - SD card partitions and uboot. It was the partition that was stopping me. Apparently my external card reader on my linux box doesn't see/partition/format that card the way the FR does. While I was testing another image I partitioned and formatted a spare card, and now the Android system boots up. Haven't had a lot of time to play with it, but it seems much nicer than anything else so far. I figured out what was blowing up QTExt as well: Bluetooth. While setting up to drive w/ hands free worked, when I placed a call with audio over the headset, it worked for about 2 seconds (of ringing) and the dumped the GUI and died. At the office I took off my bluetooth dongle from the PC there, and the FR was fine. Plugged it in, and 5 seconds later QT died. :P If you're using uboot you must alter the uboot environment Actually, the latest version from Koolu doesn't have this restriction any more. They pushed some kernel drivers into modules so the kernel is under 2M now, so a normal uboot can load it. It's still very picky about the card though... I haven't tested wifi yet, but sms and calls seem very stable. I've yet to play with bluetooth and such, but it's not randomly crashing, so that's probably a good sign. I have noticed Andriod is still a little rough around the edges. Little things, like it doesn't shutdown. But I'd much rather have a phone that doesn't want to turn off than one that doesn't want to turn on, or be bothered with calls. ;) One thing I'm seeing is that most of the images fail in the same two system (at least, some fail on more...). One is the sound system, which on some images just stops working after a while. Audio output stops, be it phone, wave output, anything. It really looks like a driver issue for the sound chip, since a reboot fixes it. I'm wondering if it's compiled as a module if removing and reinstalling it would help, since that may re-init the hardware on re-load. The other seems to be on GSM communication of out-of-band data. Things like SMS and call notification. That's my biggest gripe, missed calls and SMS messages. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
Neil Benn neil.b...@ziath.com wrote: Hmm, to be fair the webpage itself says that the FreeRunner is only for power users and developers and is not ready for the general consumer. Yes Neil, it does NOW. But 9 months ago when FIC originally started selling the FreeRunner, when *I* bought it, they clearly said on the order page that this was a consumer ready device. That's one of the main gripes a lot of us from the initial buy are having. The GTA01 was always listed as a development device. But when the GTA02 launched, FIC called it consumer ready, and now many months later they're back peddling on that and re-branding it because they can't deliver what they sold. To be clear, I'll say it again: Nine months ago FIC called this consumer ready, and the words development kit where nowhere on the order page. No matter what they say NOW, 9 months ago when people bough the phone, they bought it under false pretenses. And with *nobody* in the forums or groups owning one, there were no whiners saying there were issues. I know... I looked at the forums, and read the lists before shelling out several hundred dollars. Everything looked like this was stable, that FIC was reputable, and the phone would be ready out of the box, or at least was close to it. In fact, some GTA01 users (like some recent 02 users here) said they were using the GTA01 as a phone, with the matchbox image (now known as OM). The only indicator anything was wrong was rumblings that *maybe* there was an issue around battery life, due to lack of sleep mode. I'd take that right now... I can buy more batteries. I can't buy a working image that has stable GSM/SMS. I actually purchased it for a handheld device which can act as a USB host And for that purpose, and many others, it's a GREAT device. I've used mine as a GPS for several months via TangoGPS by pre-loading maps though USB to a uSD card. With OM2008.12 I can now setup GPRS and download the maps on the fly (if I needed to... they're all on card now though). As a PDA/GPS, this could be a great device. But I really don't need a $400 PDA/GPS... I need a cell phone. I'll report more on the other dirstros I've tried later, but so far nothing has been very solid in the GSM category. GPS and USB seem to work on everything, which is great. Bluetooth and Wifi either aren't available at all or only have limited use in most images. And GSM/SMS service is really hit or miss, though ironically GPRS is pretty stable on OM. On some distros though you have to choose one or the other, since the mux package isn't available (or doesn't work) for all the images. :P As for comments from others about waiting for OM to get the software together, that's what I'm worried about. The GTA01 folks waited almost 2 years and now OM has dropped support for that device, so they're stuck with a puck. OM has clearly said they will NOT be working on GTA01 and more, and there's not a stable image for it, probably never will be. With GTA03 due out sometime this year, the clock starts ticking on the GTA02. With the speed things are going, I'm not sure waiting is going to see a stable image for the GTA02 before OM decides to drop support. And OM has NOT countered this argument, but in fact has confirmed that their current development is focusing on changes to support the GTA03 and other compatible open source handsets. I'm just not sure I'm willing to gamble several hundred dollars that anyone involved will do in the next year what was promised for the past two: release a stable working base image for a GTA device. Especially when OM is proclaiming loudly that they're not FIC, FIC has downgraded the GTA02 from a consumer ready phone to a development platform, and both have completely abandoned the GTA01 crowd. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@openmoko.com wrote: Repeating rumors again and again still doesn't make them true. Is this a rumor? PLEASE CLARIFY. Will the GTA01 continue to get software support from OM in it's baseline release (OM2xxx series)? If the answer is yes, then I'm much happier. If not, then it's just a matter of time before the GTA02 follows the same path of dropped without show-stopping bugs being fixed. Again, I don't expect perpetual support. I do expect continued support until the major issues (like ticket 1662) are resolved in a base image. Within days of the December release there were questions about future GTA01 support, and it was said on the OM list that OM was no longer supporting the GTA01 in the OM2xxx images. Admittedly, this was said by a non-OM employee (Rod Whitby), but nobody from OM spoke up to correct it. The only reply from OM until now was from Mickey, who wrote the the posting attached below. As I read it, it screamed to me that OM was trying to quietly drop support for the 01 without saying it directly. Mickey choose his words very carefully, which I noted when I read it, so that he wasn't flat out saying OM was dropping support. But he also didn't say they were continuing support either. Think about it for a second. You have a lot of people that can't get their phone to work reliably with second generation hardware after 8 months of trying. You have one primary product with your name on it, the OM2xxx image series. The latest one says it does NOT support the GTA01, with no comment about if future versions will again support it. And when the question is asked, we get a vague answer about how the GTA01 doesn't need OM for new updates, followed by crickets. So I ask again: Will OM support GTA01 in future baseline OM2xxx releases? Yes, or No. Michael 'Mickey' Lauer mic...@openmoko.org wrote: = I don't want to comment on whether Openmoko should do more work on GTA01 or rather concentrate on 02 and 03, but I do want to state that you can't compare the usual end-of-support product to an Openmoko end-of-support product. Openmoko not releasing anymore images for 01 is _orders of magnitude_ less of a problem than any competitor no longer supporting a model. The reason being the paradigmatic openness of Openmoko. Everything is out there -- at your fingertips, so to speak -- you can still compile 2009.x for the 01 (yes, you need to remove some things) or work on exciting new software for it. U-Boot and the kernel may not receive many more updates, but that's about it. For the rest of it, you don't have to rely on Openmoko to get fresh software for your GTA01. Again, while I don't want to comment whether this is right or wrong from Openmoko Inc, I hope that it puts things into perspective. Yours, Mickey. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
First off, I want to thank Tom for the blog pages he has setup. They're a great reference for setting up the OM base software, and really should be put on the main Wiki release pages somewhere. I'd say the out-of-box functionality of most of the OM releases is highly enhanced if you follow the directions he's posted. Tom Yates madhat...@teaparty.net wrote: On Wed, 7 Jan 2009, Craig Woodward wrote: And core functionality on ALL Neos, like making and receiving calls and SMS, is still unreliable. i'm sorry, but i think that's unfair; my GTA02A6 has been my main phone since i bought it at the end of august 2008. you may never have been able to make things work for you, but it's wrong to say that core functionality on all neos is unreliable; it's fine on mine. Really? Your main phone? On my Neo, applying the same patches you note on your blog, core functionality is NOT reliable. I write device drivers, firmware, SDKs, and applications for a living, so it's not like this is new stuff for me. Try as I may, I can't get this phone to be a phone. And really, I shouldn't have to patch and tweak an image from my phone's manufacture to get base functionality, like making and receiving calls reliably. To be fair before giving up on it, I tried loading up 2008.12 last weekend. This weekend I plan on trying the latest of a couple other releases, like SHR and Android. I even used your blog (which is really a great setup walk though) and a couple other references to get things up and running quickly. At first I was very hopeful and inspired by the improvements I saw since the last OM release I tried (which was admittedly 2008.8). In particular I found that some of the interface was more polished. GRPS setup and usage was MUCH more solid than in the past. In fact, GPRS is now probably the most stable sub system I've used on the FreeRunner. Even suspend seemed to be working with test calls I did from my office phone early on. I did find some annoying bugs in interface still: email not working, SMS not using contact info, etc. But I figured those are user-space problems, which can be fixed later. Polish wasn't my main concern... base functionality was my focus. The first night the phone ran over night and didn't crash, which was great. I used GPS Wifi in the morning, and it worked well. Finally, I tried making a call and it crashed, lost network, and refused to get signal again. After a reboot it registered fine, and my outbound call went well. I hoped it was a glitch from being on almost 12 hours, and went in to work. At work, I got a call but was not able to answer it. The answer button on the screen would highlight, but the phone just keep ringing. A reboot and a call back worked. An hour later I got a call and was able to answer, but the person on the other end couldn't hear me. A reboot again fixed it. Later that day the phone rang half a ring, and went right to the dialog that tells me I'd missed the call. The caller later told me it rang several more times than usual before going to voice mail. Repeat for the next day or so... Of about 15 calls I know about over the two days I was using my Neo, 9 answered as expected. Only one outbound call had an issue out of about 8. Not a very good rate for a phone. Near the end of day one, it dawned on me that I *never* got notification that I had waiting voice mail, which comes as a text message from my provider. In fact, I discovered (over several reboots) that I'd missed most inbound text messages. And despite my phone saying text messages were being sent, only 14 of about 26 actually made it to the carrier, based on reports from friends AND my carrier's ticker on my account web page. Through testing I found this was regardless of if suspend and/or GRPS was on or off. SMS loss appears to have happened more often when GRPS was enabled, but I lost calls and SMS even after I turned both off and rebooted. The window manager crashed every few calls and required rebooting at least a few times a day. I had one occasion where the phone exited suspend mode, rang, and then rebooted (which is when I disabled suspend all together). Over all, I found it so frustrating that on a few occasions I pulled my sim and hopped back on to my 6230. What finally drove me back to the 6230 was when I saw additional texts on my 6230 that the Neo never reported, sent hours or the day before in some cases. Switching back to the Neo, those texts *never* showed up, as if they didn't exist. This despite the fact that my Nokia got them as part of the SMS backlog from my provider (which included the SMS the Neo did receive). I don't know about you, but I call most of the above a lack of core functionality. Admittedly, some of that may be user-side stuff, since for some it's hard to tell where the fault lies without major debugging. But the phone rebooting after ringing; that's pretty clearly
Re: GTA02 is now an expensive brick
Ian Darwin i...@darwinsys.com wrote: You accuse me of mincing words. Let's see if you'll stand by your words. If you really feel the device is that worthless, sell it to me for $10.00. Final offer. = Ok: A Learn to crop your replies... B My point wasn't to LOSE more money by selling to you for $10. My point in selling now is to try to not get screwed a second time when OM drops support for it, like they did for the GTA01 last month. C If you think it's such a great phone, why not buy it from me for full price? Clearly if it's so great, you'll have no problem re-selling it. Didn't think so... I didn't buy this phone as a gadget to work on for months that MIGHT eventually make a nice GPS. For half the price I could have gotten a real open source kit and the parts to put together something like this, minus GSM. Something with a REAL SDK, fully open and STABLE source, and support from the company that sold it to me. I bought this to use as a phone that I could get into, add to, and modify if I wanted to. That's how FIC marketed it, as a consumer ready device, open source, with MAYBE a small power issue in that it wasn't supporting stand by mode. OM wasn't it's own entity, or if it was that wasn't made clear. Now FIC has shifted ALL responsibility off to OM. OM says they're not focused on the GTA02, but are marketing to future phones, like the GTA03. They've also completely dropped support for the GTA01. And core functionality on ALL Neos, like making and receiving calls and SMS, is still unreliable. The FreeRunner wasn't marketed as a prototype device. It was marketed as consumer ready, and it's not there, and doesn't appear to be getting there any time soon, if at all. Saying OM never said the software was ready doesn't change how it was marketed, or the fact that OM was initially formed and funded by FIC to develop software for it's phone. I'm just pissed off that I spent $400 on a device that was supposed to be my next phone, and 8 months later it's still sitting in a box because it's not usable as a normal daily phone. And it doesn't help that people keep saying the FreeRunner was marketed as a development platform, when it clearly wasn't. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: GTA02 is now an expensive brick
To those saying this doesn't belong on a support list: I normally would agree. But in this case, there's no other real channel to discuss things like this with those that have the (possible) power to do anything about it. Clearly FIC has washed their hands of this, since they're only supporting the hardware for 2 weeks after purchase in case of DOA. Any solution that's going to come is going to come as software, if it comes at all. Neng-Yu Tu (Tony Tu) t...@openmoko.com wrote: There still people using GTA01 I understand that... My issue is that there isn't a stable base that loads and works as a phone for ANY Neo model. There's no image that I can load that will work reliably as a phone for 24 hours, even if it's plugged in to a wall outlet. Not a battery life issue, not a power save issue, just a stability issue. Within 24 hours (usually less), either I can not make a call, can not receive a call, and/or can not use SMS. You say to put this into the ticket system, but it's already there. I added 3 tickets months ago, and ALL are still untouched. I would have entered more, but many would have been duplicates, which I wanted to avoid. There are thousands of tickets in the system, many of them listed as new despite being months old. A prime example is the one I sited above, bug #1662, [GSM] not working properly after x hours of usage. This is a basic thing for a phone to do, but it's been waiting to be seen since 7/23/08. This is not acceptable for any cell phone, but shows no signs of being fixed any time soon. What if we use montavista/windriver/wince/whatever make a device first then release(open) crappy/ok linux kernel, it won't be Openmoko. I think that's the issue here... Open source doesn't mean throw the hardware and docs out to the planet and they'll write stuff for you. Open source needs a stable base to work from. OM has provided a stable base for the CPU (via ARM repositories), and arguably the video device. But at least one key device (GSM) has had several stability issues, and ironically that's the one part of OM that is NOT open source. Another part that has issues that are know is wifi (needing reboot to connect to a second AP?), not to mention issues surrounding power save and battery charging. We are sorry if FR make you think as expensive brick It cost $400 and can't be used as a phone when the page I bought it from said it was a consumer ready phone. If FIC were in the US they'd have a class action suit on their hands by now for false advertising. Instead, they will (maybe) produce GTA03 and be shocked when they get almost no sales because people look it up and see the failure of the past 2 devices. And all the open source nay-sayers will collectively say told you so and write glowing articles about the death of open source for phones. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: GTA02 is now an expensive brick
Ian Darwin i...@darwinsys.com wrote: There is no place that OM has said that the current *software* is ready for the masses. That's really mincing words... You're right, OM never said the software was ready for the masses, but FIC said the FreeRunner was consumer ready when it was selling it 8 months ago. That to me implied the hardware AND software were ready. But months later we're learning that *neither* is ready, and that both camps will probably drop support for the device before a stable, reliable platform develops. (As they've already done for the GTA01.) Happily I've never had to deal with this battery mess because my current phone is a Nokia 6230i, which uses the same battery as the FR. The 6230 can charge the batteries from dead, and never fully drains them to start with. Frankly I find it unacceptable that ANY phone would fully discharge it's battery, doubly so when it's hardware isn't capable of trickle charging it from a NOPOWER state. But rather than trying to fix this hardware issue in software, OM chose to change architectures *twice*, and is now focusing work on changes for as yet unreleased hardware, including the GTA03. Way to build a customer base folks... And what happens when this new hardware become vaporware as people realize the market has dried up? Do you really think during a recession that people are going to drop big bucks on a GTA03, with no major hardware changes, after the first two FAILED and have no support now? I'm pretty sure I'll have my GTA02 up on ebay within the week. It really sucks, since I WANT an open source phone with the features the Neo promised. It also sucks that I dropped a pretty penny on what was claimed to be consumer ready, and 8 months later am still using my 5 year old phone for daily use. I will very likely take a hit on reselling my Neo, but what's my other option? Hold on to it in the hopes that a stable platform emerges before OM totally stops support? And if it doesn't, how much do you think I could re-sell a custom phone for with that can't be used as a phone, has half finished unstable open source software, and absolutely no support? The worst part is that by making promises and not delivering, FIC and OM have set the open source movement back for phones. They've pretty much killed any chance of an open source phone being taken seriously any time soon unless it's backed by a huge company (like Android). Who's going to invest in the next private open source phone after reading how the GTA failed twice, and delivered non-functional multi-hundred dollar hockey pucks instead? Anyone want a GTA02v5? You get the whole box set, plus I'll throw in a stand alone battery charger and a 2G uSD card too boot. Make an offer. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Not supporitng GTA01? [Was: [openmoko-announce] Om 2008.12 Beyond]
Paul pault...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Markus Fischer i...@flyingfischer.ch wrote: OpenMoko was and still is for developpers purpose. The Freerunner was marketed as the Consumer Ready Version with the software to complete the readiness soon to follow. Bingo. Because FIC/OM haven't been able to produce a working core, they've instead re-defined what the GTA02 is supposed to be. The GTA01 was marketed as a base to start working from, and agreeably was never guaranteed to be a production level phone. The GTA02 was marketed as _consumer_ready_, or really close to it with only battery life being an issue. Yet the loadable cores can't sustain the phone as a phone, even if it's plugged into an outlet its whole life. And we're being told the focus is now shifting to an as yet un-produced GTA03? Who's going to buy it when it comes out? You've already hit most in the market that want an open source phone, and disappointed them. Most of them aren't going to buy a GTA03 when their previous version didn't get to a working point. And the current 2 models are already spoken of poorly in open source circles because of the lack of functionality and support. (Dropping GTA01 won't help that image, btw.) I have several linux-based chip solutions that I work with all the time, personally and professionally, all of which cost less for the dev kit than the GTA02 did. Most come with a CD or DVD that includes a *stable* base OS image and a snapshot of the source used to make that image. The better ones come with a VMWare image that has a pre-built environment (usually debian based), with tool chains and pre-targeted source control. Load up the environment, log in, setup a few variables and build. Most go from box to built in under an hour. I was shocked when the GTA02 arrived and there was NO software with it outside of the installed image, which was months old, and crashed within minutes because of suspend issues. It took me almost a week to figure out how to get a current snapshot of the source and properly setup the tool chain to do base development. Part of that was a learning curve on using the rather non-obvious source control system chosen. But as a developer that's worked on several open source projects, this one is hands down the hardest to get into even as a developer, yet alone as a newbie. I'm also amazed with all the current focus on suspend mode and saving battery. If the battery lasts all day, but I don't get my calls or SMS messages, or the phone crashes every 2 hours, how useful is that? Can we get an image that sucks energy, but can at least reliably make and receive dozens calls and SMS messages? Maybe one that can connect to more than one wifi point without a reboot? With time running out on the GTA02 I'd much rather have a functioning phone that eats it's battery in two hours than have a non-functional toy device that runs for days on a charge. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Not supporitng GTA01? [Was: [openmoko-announce] Om 2008.12 Beyond]
I disagree for one simple reason: There has yet to be a stable kernel and interface for any GTA* phone from which to build. There are releases that are labeled stable, but most of them crash after a short time, or have major bugs that prevent the hardware from working like a normal phone for any length of time. Saying you're better off than a commercial product going end of life is simply not true. A commercial product, even at end of life, is in a stable working condition. You slide a SIM in, turn it on, and it just works. It makes calls, it does SMS, probably GPRS, and maybe bluetooth and wifi. So if a commercial product goes end of life, you can still use it as a phone until you hit hardware failure or a major hardware level protocol change. Can you point me to a kernel and image set that I can load on my phone that can send and receive calls reliably. One that can also handle SMS incoming and out going reliably? And one that (even with a lot of manual tweaking) can get GPRS stable and running while doing the other two reliably? None that I've seen yet can do those 3 basic things for more than a few calls or a couple hours without crapping out at some level. Despite weeks of tweaking I still can't use my GTA02 as a stable everyday phone. My Nokia 6230i, which went end of life years ago, is still my primary phone and does all 3 things constantly for days on end without a crash or need to reboot. I agree with you that if a stable base were there to work from that this would be less of an issue. This is why I wanted a Neo in the first place, to have the freedom to hack my phone and add my own programs. But it worries me that OM is leaving GTA01 customers holding the bag without a stable base established to work from. It's great that the source is all out there, but if a team of people working on the code with full hardware specs and direct access to the manufacturer can't get the system stable in 2 years, what hope does anyone else have of getting it working, even with full source to everything? Is this what GTA02 customers have to look forward to if one of the many image sets (OM, FSO, SHM, Andrioid, Qt, Debian) doesn't become a stable development base before the GTA03 is released? Will I be left holding the bag in a year or two? And if so, what inspires me to buy a GTA03, knowing a year or so down the road the 04 will be out and I'll be left with another very expensive paper weight? It just seems like a crappy way to thank those that invested their time and money in the early hardware, software, and the idea of an open source phone when few were willing to do so. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Not supporitng GTA01? [Was: [openmoko-announce] Om 2008.12 Beyond]
Really? That's frightening to me. Six months after GTA02 is released, they totally stop support on GTA01? And now we're being told GTA03 is in the works? Did I spend a good chunk of change on an open-source phone that's barely functional and not going to be supported in nine months to a year? I can understand if we were talking about totally different machines here, but from what I know the only differences have been some minor hardware tweaks that focus mainly on gluing on the wifi and enhancing the flash system. The core systems remain pretty much the same. I'd be less concerned if this was a finished product that had a stable base system, since then one could always revert to that and use it as a phone. But there has yet to be a stable system for GTA02 that I've found, yet alone 01. (And by stable, I mean it works reliably as a phone, can text, and do limited networking on GPRS and/or Wifi without rebooting every 30 minutes.) If I owned a GTA01, I'd be pretty pissed right now. You help kick start a company by investing in early hardware and suffering through software testing, to get kicked to the curb after a year or so? Not a way to build loyalty. Rod Whitby r...@whitby.id.au wrote: = There are no new releases from downloads.openmoko.org which will work on the GTA01. You need to use FSO or Debian or perhaps Hacker:1 for the GTA01. Openmoko no longer supports the GTA01 with the Om200x images. -- Rod ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Repair Parts
From what I know of the construction (from taking it apart mainly) the touch screen layer on the Neo series is actually *under* the LCD. The scar you're seeing is probably in the protective plastic layer thats over the LCD glass. You should be able to open the phone and verify this, and maybe attempt to (gently) peal that layer off if you have something to replace it with. (As I recall it has some kind of adhesive holding it on to the LCD...) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = OK, this issue was touched on at least once in one of the what's the warranty threads, but I want a specific answer: What can be done about a scratched touchscreen? I have a vertical gouge from either my fingertip or the stylus right up the center of my screen, occurred during the three day gap between arrival of my Freerunner and arrival of my screen protectors, dragging the Openmoko logo around the damned unlock the screen. (while it looked neat, that has to be the most irritating 'unlock' procedure I've ever had to endure - over, and over, and over, and over) Is there any reasonable way for me to replace/repair the touchscreen at this time? Is there a simple fix I'm unaware of that would make it less than a visible gash in the display? The touchscreen does not appear to be functionally impaired at all, it's cosmetic. (although without the screen protector it's deep enough that stylus drags diagonally across it can get 'stuck in the groove') But it's like having 8 stuck pixels right in the middle of the screen - while my brain can map around it, it's always visible, always irritating. j ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: 2008.8 - unable to unmount SD card because it's in use
Qpe was the culprit for me... I had to kill the xserver to unmount and reformat my new card. :) Dylan Semler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = On a freshly booted 2008.8 Freerunner, I can't unmount the SD card because it says it's busy. Anyone know what is accessing the card? -- Dylan Type faster. Use Dvorak: http://dvzine.org ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Om2008.8 - Issues
Wow.. That has to be the worst interface I've ever used for a keyboard. What happened to the ABC jumble in the corner that let you change from T9 and/or a full mini-key board? I used the other two for almost everything, and never liked this version of the keyboard, but there appears to be no way to change it's setup now. rakshat hooja [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 6:00 PM, sparky mat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I found the following issues while trying out the Om2008.8 release. 3) Messaging - The qwerty keypad has no backspace/delete key. Also, I can't see any way to access the numeric/special keys. Am I missing something here? Try sliding finger towards left for del. flick keyboard upwards for numeric keypad. 6) Battery level indicator - Is there one? I just see a lightning icon on the status bar and its there even if the cable is not plugged in. Paining error i think, reboot and see if it is still there. Rakshat -- -- Please use Firefox as your web browser. Its protects you from spyware and is also a very feature rich browser. www.firefox.com ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Terminal in default package?
Can we please put terminal in the default package list for ASU again? When it first comes up, bluez is useless (no net support), I've yet to get the default wifi handler to get any wifi setup, and the only way to get on is via USB. And now in the latest image... USB is acting up again. I flashed the daily build (8/7) and it's just not liking me. :P For some reason the WinXP box I have is blue-screening when connect the neo. When I connect to the Win2K box I have, it's showing the connection, but then saying Network cable unplugged. I have an ancient Slackware system running, but it's so old it doesn't have USB support really. Any ideas whats going on? (And yes, I've rebooted everything 6 times and wait for the freerunner to boot fully before plugging it in...) If I had a terminal in the default package I could at least peck in and see whats going on... As it is, I have no way in or out... Oh.. And how are you supposed to power down in 2008.8? The power button seems to do nothing unless you hold it a long time (long hold shut off), and using shutdown (when I was able to terminal in) kills the X server, but runs out of processes for this init level and dies. Not pretty. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Uboot
I had this problem when I put obexftp into the startup for my bluez. Turns out it doesn't auto-background, so it was hanging there just after the startup. Happily, I was able to ssh in, fix it, and kill the obexftp to let it start up normal. Can you ssh in via USB still? If so look at the last started process before your shell and see if it's hung. Aaron Sowry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = There are 3 versions for the gta02v5 - what is the difference? apparently the creation date. Naw... they're the same creation date, the only difference seems to be the `1.3.1+gitr`[22|26|30] part of the filename. I've just flashed the 'latest' one anyway - Andy Green mentioned it could be related to the build problems lately. Side note - the reason I'm flashing is because after doing an opkg update/upgrade on the Qtopia distro, it will no longer boot. It gets to the point where it looks like it should be loading up the GUI (tiny blinking cursor in the top left, nothing else on the screen) and hangs there. Anyone else had this problem? Aaron p.s. doesn't look like flashing u-boot helped either :( ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
GPRS Problems w/ 2008.1
Ok, I'm getting something pretty odd now with GRPS setup. I'm trying this with 2008.1, which is probably a mistake, but... I'm getting a connection, and have used cu to tip in and see I'm getting what looks to me to be valid ppp setup packets spit back at me when I enter the commands manually. When I run it through ppp I'm getting the following (via logs). I've never seen this particular error, and am a little confused. I can see that the data coming across starts with ~y} after a manual connect, so I know it's trying to link. What's going on that manually it seems to be working but with pppd it's going 7-bit? Any ideas? =PPP LOG STARTS HERE= Serial connection established. using channel 1 Using interface ppp0 Connect: ppp0 -- /dev/ttySAC0 sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x7a79c68b pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x7a79c68b pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x7a79c68b pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x7a79c68b pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x7a79c68b pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x7a79c68b pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x7a79c68b pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x7a79c68b pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x7a79c68b pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x7a79c68b pcomp accomp] LCP: timeout sending Config-Requests Connection terminated. Receive serial link is not 8-bit clean: Problem: all had bit 7 set to 0 Serial connection established. using channel 2 Using interface ppp0 Connect: ppp0 -- /dev/ttySAC0 disconnect script failed sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x2 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x68548757 pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x2 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x68548757 pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x2 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x68548757 pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x2 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x68548757 pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x2 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x68548757 pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x2 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x68548757 pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x2 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x68548757 pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x2 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x68548757 pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x2 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x68548757 pcomp accomp] sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x2 asyncmap 0x0 magic 0x68548757 pcomp accomp] LCP: timeout sending Config-Requests Connection terminated. Receive serial link is not 8-bit clean: Problem: all had bit 7 set to 0 tcflush failed: Bad file descriptor Connect script failed Modem hangup =PPP LOG ENDS= ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
