Re: Google.com difference with SeaMonkey compared to Firefox
On 3/23/2021 3:21 PM, mozilla-lists.mbou...@spamgourmet.com wrote: ... no...@nonospam.org wrote: Where is the setting for this Firefox-only option in the preferences dialog? Edit > Preferences > Advanced > HTTP Networking > User Agent String There are 3 options: * Identify as Firefox * Identify as SeaMonkey * Identify as SeaMonkey and advertise Firefox compatibility The "Identify as Firefox" option was added relatively recently, I think in SeaMonkey 2.53. Before that there was just a single checkbox for "Advertise Firefox compatibility" to switch between what are now the 2nd and 3rd options. Oh wow. Thanks for the tip. :) -- It's March Madness (go USC Trojans!)! Stop the racisms, hates, discriminations, etc. please. Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.ma.cx / / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org | |o o| | Axe ANT from its address if shown & e-mailing privately. \ _ / Please kindly use Ant nickname & URL/link if crediting. ( ) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Google.com difference with SeaMonkey compared to Firefox
mozilla-lists.mbou...@spamgourmet.com wrote: I think I recall seeing something relatively recently about one of the newer versions of SeaMonkey changing the default UA string - or maybe I imagined that! (An extra Firefox-only option was added in the preferences dialog, so perhaps that's what I'm thinking of?) no...@nonospam.org wrote: Where is the setting for this Firefox-only option in the preferences dialog? Edit > Preferences > Advanced > HTTP Networking > User Agent String There are 3 options: * Identify as Firefox * Identify as SeaMonkey * Identify as SeaMonkey and advertise Firefox compatibility The "Identify as Firefox" option was added relatively recently, I think in SeaMonkey 2.53. Before that there was just a single checkbox for "Advertise Firefox compatibility" to switch between what are now the 2nd and 3rd options. -- Mark. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Google.com difference with SeaMonkey compared to Firefox
Where is the setting for this Firefox-only option in the preferences dialog? mozilla-lists.mbou...@spamgourmet.com wrote: I think I recall seeing something relatively recently about one of the newer versions of SeaMonkey changing the default UA string - or maybe I imagined that! (An extra Firefox-only option was added in the preferences dialog, so perhaps that's what I'm thinking of?) -- Q: What's the quickest way to get a mailbox full of spam? A: Post a message in any newsgroup using a real email address. Therefore, please reply in this newsgroup. Thank you. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Google.com difference with SeaMonkey compared to Firefox
NFN Smith wrote: no...@nonospam.org wrote: For the last couple of months, the appearance of the main Google website on SeaMonkey has been different from what it has been for years. Search results are presented in individual boxes, and the website just looks strange. I think I recall seeing something relatively recently about one of the newer versions of SeaMonkey changing the default UA string - or maybe I imagined that! (An extra Firefox-only option was added in the preferences dialog, so perhaps that's what I'm thinking of?) Anyway, if the default UA string did change, that might have changed how Google appears - as you've found, they return a different layout depending on the UA string used. It could also be that Google changed something on their site recently. That could happen at any time, and is completely outside of SeaMonkey's (or any other browser's) control. I don't often use Google at home, so wouldn't have noticed when it changed. I haven't seen any changes recently, but I rarely go to google.com, and I also normally leave the scripting for google.com inactive (via NoScript) unless I encounter something that requires it (most often, other sites that offer search and use Google's searching). That said, I've found that at www.google.com, if using a standard Seamonkey User Agent display, the search bar's display is a little odd, where cursor and text is displayed about half a line offset above where it should be. I found that that goes away if I show a stock Firefox UA string (rather than Seamonkey's UA of Firefox with Seamonkey's ID tagged at the end). Previously, I'd also found the display better using a SeaMonkey-only UA (with no mention of Firefox) - similar look to the SeaMonkey+Firefox UA but without the broken alignment of the boxes etc. Trying just now, though, it's not as bad as it used to be with a SeaMonkey+Firefox UA either. I don't know whether that's down to changes in Google's coding or the newer version of SeaMonkey. A Firefox-only UA gives a completely different layout, similar to what you get from Firefox itself. Even though I'm a fan of changing UA with PrefBar, I've found that this is one site (among several) where I'd rather not have to remember to change the UA when I visit, then remember to change back when I'm done, because UA spoofing also changes the User-Agent header in mail. (I notice that your message shows Firefox 86, rather than Seamonkey). Thus, for this one, I prefer to do permanent site-specific spoofing, and in about:config, I have a line in prefs.js that sets general.useragent.override.google.com to show: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/78.0 This is another example of a website which works differently with SeaMonkey than it does with Firefox. Changing the user agent string is a workaround, but why should this be required? It's something specific to Google, and why they do it isn't obvious. Indeed - it's Google serving a different layout depending what UA is presented. It may be that they send more feature-rich content using newer features to browsers they specifically recognise as being capable of handling it, and a default less-capable version to unrecognised browsers since they don't know whether they can handle the newer features. Anyone wanting to know for sure would need to ask them. Whatever the reason for them doing it, I don't think there's anything SeaMonkey can do about it, other than sending a UA string claiming to be Firefox. I've heard indications of issues at YouTube that require similar spoofing. I haven't seen that myself, but I don't do a lot at YouTube. Although my observation is that a Firefox UA string that includes additional text (which is normal for browsers that are derived from Firefox but not actually Firefox, such as Seamonkey, PaleMoon and Waterfox) seems to confuse Google, I haven't actually tested either PaleMoon or Waterfox. Yeah, with Google it does seem to be the combination of Firefox and SeaMonkey that sometimes causes them problems. Either on its own seems to be fine (though different layouts). My guess is that, with both in the UA, they end up detecting Firefox in some places and sending the Firefox version of some parts of the content/stylesheets/scripting and the SeaMonkey version of other parts, and the mix of the two doesn't work right. In the grand scheme of things, I think it's one of those places where the number of people running Firefox browsers is small enough (the function equivalent of a rounding error), that Google doesn't really care, one way or another. They'll do the necessary work to make Firefox behave correctly, and if it's not Firefox, not worth the effort. ...and if anyone complains, tell them to use Chrome ;o) -- Mark. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org
Re: Google.com difference with SeaMonkey compared to Firefox
On 22/03/2021 18:58, NFN Smith wrote: ...> That said, I've found that at www.google.com, if using a standard Seamonkey User Agent display, the search bar's display is a little odd, where cursor and text is displayed about half a line offset above where it should be. I found that that goes away if I show a stock Firefox UA string (rather than Seamonkey's UA of Firefox with Seamonkey's ID tagged at the end). This UA (as in this post) doesn't cause the above weirdness, which was definitely seen with some earlier SM versions for the same platform: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.6 Whether the difference is in SM's presentation or G's UA sniffing isn't clear. Perhaps G is stigmatising Windows 10? /df -- London UK ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Google.com difference with SeaMonkey compared to Firefox
no...@nonospam.org wrote: For the last couple of months, the appearance of the main Google website on SeaMonkey has been different from what it has been for years. Search results are presented in individual boxes, and the website just looks strange. I haven't seen any changes recently, but I rarely go to google.com, and I also normally leave the scripting for google.com inactive (via NoScript) unless I encounter something that requires it (most often, other sites that offer search and use Google's searching). That said, I've found that at www.google.com, if using a standard Seamonkey User Agent display, the search bar's display is a little odd, where cursor and text is displayed about half a line offset above where it should be. I found that that goes away if I show a stock Firefox UA string (rather than Seamonkey's UA of Firefox with Seamonkey's ID tagged at the end). Even though I'm a fan of changing UA with PrefBar, I've found that this is one site (among several) where I'd rather not have to remember to change the UA when I visit, then remember to change back when I'm done, because UA spoofing also changes the User-Agent header in mail. (I notice that your message shows Firefox 86, rather than Seamonkey). Thus, for this one, I prefer to do permanent site-specific spoofing, and in about:config, I have a line in prefs.js that sets general.useragent.override.google.com to show: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/78.0 This is another example of a website which works differently with SeaMonkey than it does with Firefox. Changing the user agent string is a workaround, but why should this be required? It's something specific to Google, and why they do it isn't obvious. I've heard indications of issues at YouTube that require similar spoofing. I haven't seen that myself, but I don't do a lot at YouTube. Although my observation is that a Firefox UA string that includes additional text (which is normal for browsers that are derived from Firefox but not actually Firefox, such as Seamonkey, PaleMoon and Waterfox) seems to confuse Google, I haven't actually tested either PaleMoon or Waterfox. In the grand scheme of things, I think it's one of those places where the number of people running Firefox browsers is small enough (the function equivalent of a rounding error), that Google doesn't really care, one way or another. They'll do the necessary work to make Firefox behave correctly, and if it's not Firefox, not worth the effort. Smith ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Google.com difference with SeaMonkey compared to Firefox
no...@nonospam.org wrote on 21/03/2021 14:27: For the last couple of months, the appearance of the main Google website on SeaMonkey has been different from what it has been for years. Search results are presented in individual boxes, and the website just looks strange. I've done some troubleshooting and here is what I've observed: 1. When entering google.com on Firefox v86.0.1, the site appears normal. 2. When entering google.com on SeaMonkey v2.53.5.1, the site has the strange appearance described above. The site address showing in the title box is https://www.google.com/#spf=1616331365185 even though only https://www.google.com was entered. 3. If I change the SeaMonkey user agent to Firefox 86.0(Using the PrefBar extension) and reload the page, the appearance returns to normal, even though #spf=1616331987062 is still at the end of the site address. 4. Removing #spf=1616331987062 and reloading the page make the site work correctly. 5. Changing the user agent back to Real UA and reloading the page again causes the strange appearance and the site address goes back to https://www.google.com/#spf=1616332459516 This is another example of a website which works differently with SeaMonkey than it does with Firefox. Changing the user agent string is a workaround, but why should this be required? John I also observe this, even still using SeaMonkey 2.49.5. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Google.com difference with SeaMonkey compared to Firefox
On 21/03/2021 21:35, no...@nonospam.org wrote: I'm attaching 4 screen grabs, all from SeaMonkey v2.53.5.1. They show the basic Google screen both with the Real UA and the Firefox 86.0 UA, and also a Google search result with both the Real UA and the Firefox 86.0 UA. In both cases I prefer the SM presentation (from the pictures shown). As the UA changes the display this is a deliberate choice by G, and if anyone wants to have a FF presentation that's how to get it. At one time the SM presentation had defects such as the length of the search field not matching its container, or being vertically offset. This doesn't seem to happen now (at least, without JS enabled). The only real improvement needed would be to delete or compress the "People also ask" box. /df -- London UK ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Google.com difference with SeaMonkey compared to Firefox
On 3/21/21 11:26 AM, Ant wrote: On 3/21/2021 7:50 AM, WaltS48 wrote: On 3/21/21 9:27 AM, no...@nonospam.org wrote: For the last couple of months, the appearance of the main Google website on SeaMonkey has been different from what it has been for years. Search results are presented in individual boxes, and the website just looks strange. I don't see much difference using SeaMonkey 2.53.6 and Firefox 86.0.1, but I don't know what your search term is. Do you have the same problem using Help > Restart with Add-ons Disabled? I never use a search site preferring to search from the address bar. I definitely see differences between my SeaMonkey v2.53.6 (User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.6) and Firefox v86.0.1 in my decade old, updated 64-bit W7 HPE SP1 PC. Sorry, I should have said I don't see search results presented in individual boxes in either browser. There are differences, but not much. Let me know if you need pics. You can also provide some for viewing. -- OS: Fedora 33 Workstation - Gnome Desktop https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/get-involved/ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Google.com difference with SeaMonkey compared to Firefox
On 3/21/2021 7:50 AM, WaltS48 wrote: On 3/21/21 9:27 AM, no...@nonospam.org wrote: For the last couple of months, the appearance of the main Google website on SeaMonkey has been different from what it has been for years. Search results are presented in individual boxes, and the website just looks strange. I don't see much difference using SeaMonkey 2.53.6 and Firefox 86.0.1, but I don't know what your search term is. Do you have the same problem using Help > Restart with Add-ons Disabled? I never use a search site preferring to search from the address bar. I definitely see differences between my SeaMonkey v2.53.6 (User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.6) and Firefox v86.0.1 in my decade old, updated 64-bit W7 HPE SP1 PC. -- Finally getting over my Moderna shot #1 hang over that pinched me. Stop the racisms please. Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.ma.cx / / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org | |o o| | Axe ANT from its address if shown & e-mailing privately. \ _ / Please kindly use Ant nickname & URL/link if crediting. ( ) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Google.com difference with SeaMonkey compared to Firefox
On 3/21/21 9:27 AM, no...@nonospam.org wrote: For the last couple of months, the appearance of the main Google website on SeaMonkey has been different from what it has been for years. Search results are presented in individual boxes, and the website just looks strange. I don't see much difference using SeaMonkey 2.53.6 and Firefox 86.0.1, but I don't know what your search term is. Do you have the same problem using Help > Restart with Add-ons Disabled? I never use a search site preferring to search from the address bar. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
