Evergreen Solutions <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Err...not sure where all that's coming from.
I'll tell you why hydro's the way for me, since apparently it's so
horrible or whatever.
>>> From hydroponic gardens you can go to ecological bio phonics organic system.
Thus we are making system study on biosystem integration , to do first thermophilic aerobic composting , then anaerobic bio digestion , then algae , which goes to fish and prawn pond , then this sludge from this used as gravel bed bio phonics organic gardening .
>>> After study of 3 years about hydroponics system , we have made a longer journey and finlay came to the same point what Keith point outs that we can not think only of fertilizer, there need to be soil based substrate , not the comercial one , as the plant needs are very complex and the plant growth is not limited to substarate , nutients , but there is living biosystem , ecology of this system too
Microbiological ecology of the soil can help us , why we need eliminate this small tiny bacterial , fungus insect system ,rather let us combine the hydro system to benefit this natural organic system with fish and other wastes.
Thus this new ecofriendly system is based both on the Hydro system ,but do keep the natural soil based substrate too.
My yard is entirely surrounded on all sides by overhead vegetation. No
portion of my yard gets more than 2-3 hours of direct sun a day, so
hydro lets me use my roof. Sure, I could concoct some elaborate system
to carry 50lb containers of soil to my roof just so I could have to
worry about the rotting effects it would have on my roof, or I could
have some 4 lb containers in a series.
>>>>>>Can be good one where land is problems
As for not sustainable, I was just talking to a fellow the other day
who uses seaweed and urine as his only 2 nutrients, growing tomatoes
and basil in the cement wasteland that is his lot in whatever major
urban metropolitan area he has to call him own. Everybody keeps
telling him it's not going to work, and he keeps harvesting a
ridiculous amount of fruit every year.
>>>>Cow urine and wastes recycling are always practiced in rural areas in India and the most Asiatic countries , making more sustainable system
While I'm sure you understand that he could indeed build a planter in
the same space, you also understand that the "dirt" method involves
removing additional topsoil from some other location, bringing it
where he lives, and replacing it/fertilizing it every year and/or
discarding it. How that's any more "sustainable" than organic hydro, I
don't understand.
>>> to make organic hydro one need also understand ecological bio systems . Here in Brazil, sugarcane based substrate , hydro system to make corn seed fast growing system has been found to be successful in demonstration level. When they made in big scale , several cows that were taking this hydro based beautiful green feed has died. Surely the microbial infection of this hydro system can be monitored , controlled , but not a sustainable system , yet .Now no more hydro system here even though there is need for the same because we are in dry land
Actually, much like JTF has international projects to keep people fed,
there's a large aquaponics group that helps areas of dense population
w/ no or poor soil to have a very inexpensive, non-motorized, system
of food production vis-a-vis the fish and vegetables grown in the same
location.
>>>>I agree with you about the fish and vegetable system , but the use of only the hidro , but rather ecologically sound biophonics system need to designed based on nature , the natural way the plant has choosen adopted is the soil.For the engineer or businees people , it is not easy to undesrtand the ecology as this more comlex , not also the biophonic system which is an advanced topics in relation with hidro , need sound ecological engineering basics
Anyway, had I 15 acres to farm on, I wouldn't use hydro or even
advocate it. However, I don't. There are several other benefits too,
like handicapped accessibility and whatnot. And...as for "propping up
the plant in the soil", sure, some systems involve a growth medium,
which for the most part are non-composted organic materials, but there
are plenty of other systems that don't use any growth media @ all,
like NFT and deep water culture.
You'll probably take offense to this, but you seem to read way too
much into my posts, as in you assume too much. You're probably
thinking I'm all about grow lights and grow rooms and what not. No
way! I just like summer based, outdoor systems. I can grow 10 tomatoes
in just over 27 square feet, and if I feel like moving inside when it
gets cold, I can propogage/clone those tomatoes into infinity simply
by taking cuttings and rooting them in water. My water usage is about
1 gallon per week per tomato, my nutrient use is 1lb per 100 gallons
of water, and since I have full control over the substrata I have 0
worry about fungi, root bugs, etc, and a simple once a week
vinegar/water mix keeps the foliar bugs at bay. I cannot see how
that's any harder on ol' Mother Earth than a soil garden, especially
comparing final pounds of fruit per square foot.
>>>>In Africa a system of 4 ha using only 2000 US dollar was reported to be running the wastes from animal , biodigestor making organic liquid fertlizer feeding natrual alges feeding , fish which able to maintain natural vegetable with recovery and reuse of water is made possible .Based on this one, we built the new one
>>>>Nobody can deny that you can have control over biosystem , but the person like myself and Keith can see that Hidro food system are invading the supermarket and they look beautiful than naturally made .
Our main point here is why one need to make tomatto , plants on the roof in Japan,USA , Europe , if so many contries nearby can make the same very cheap , very less energy intensives , in a natural way in the soil a globalized world. Why we need to use more energy , more investments to make unemployment.
The sustainable growth of India and Brazil based on the natural growth on the soil is surely different than china , Japan , and western fast economic growth. Surely hydro with out ecological and biophonic system can bring ecological disaster as we experienced in Brazil and i hope you see how complex the problem the gradening in the hidro way rather than natural way.
>>>>>We do make design of new system for sustainable prawn and fish of organic production and I strongy agree with you that organic gardening can be well integrated even in urban areas with aqua culure .Eventhough I am developing system like you and a friend of Keith , I canot expect that Keith can advocate my system if this is hydro, not an natural one , the machine made hidro system , rather man made canot to be propagated even they , the hidro ,are spreading every where , all part of the world as the best solution for gardening .
>>>>>>> Once I was fan of the new hidro ,as any engineer would like to do man made system , rather than natural eco system , as they are very hard to understand, but the fact is surely natural integrated biophonics system is much better than the hydro
sd
Panniselvam
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