Hi,
Oh the old "running your car on hydrogen scam". Those plans have been floating around for a long time now. There is absolutely no way that you can run a car on this system, or any system for that matter that cracks hydrogen using the alternator and battery for power. There is no free ride and this is like trying to create a perpetual motion machine...it simply won't work. That said, there are more than a few "outfits" seling on board electrolysers to add small quantities of H2 into the engine. It has been well known for years that adding small amounts of H2 into ICE engines WILL result in a cleaner burn, less particulates in diesel engines and improved mileage and power, however. USDOE and others including the military have used these types of systems and have reported increased efficiencies. There are also some fleet owners that are using on board electrolysers that claim better mileage as well. All types of these systems are popping up for sale all over the net, so it is really buyer beware. Remember, a small amount (up to 5%) of hydrogen or combo H and O (sometimes called Brown's gas) can increase your ICE engines efficiency but there is no way you will fully power a car from it. regards tallex > -------Original Message------- > From: Bill Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Water Powered Engine / Electrolysis > Sent: 29 Dec '06 13:14 > > Hi Jan, Andrew and all > > > If you go to solar, as doug pointed out, then you have lost that simple > idea of just pumping water into the fuel tank and it turns to > hydrogen/oxygen mix on demand. Now you would have to design and build a > storage tank to store the hydrogen in when the sun was out. As I > understand it storing hydrogen is not an easy task, there are many > problems, keeping it in the tank is among them. As you probably know > hydrogen atom is very small therefore most materials are infact > pourous(spelled wrong I think) so the gas goes right through them. A few > years ago I got really interested in this idea, like a fool I even went > and bought a book, (I use the turm loosely) it was really an 8 page > pamphlet and a waste of 20 bucks. I carefully built a reactor as per > instructions (somewhat scaled down) about 1/3 the size of the one in the > 'book'. It was quite impressive looking and I had visions of FREE fuel. > Well you know what is said about a FREE RIDE. After about 10 minutes at > 12 volts (I had two balloons hooked securely to the outputs on the > reactor, one for hydrogen the other for oxygen) the hydrogen balloon was > about the size of a baseball the oxygen a little bigger than a softball. I > even built a 555 timer circuit to pulse 19Hz to the electrodes (read > somewhere that this would help crack the water using less power) to no > measurable avail. The only increase was detected with an increase in > voltage. I don't know about you folks but I hate to try and squeeze into a > car that only used enough hydrogen to fill a soccar ball ( about 2/3's > bigger than a baseball) in ten minutes. Buy the way the hydrogen ballon > was limp and empty in less than 1 hour. I checked it for leaks with air > and there were non. > > > Andrew, just 2 cents from someone that fell for the hype!! Please don't > fall for the same thing. > > > Wildbill > > _JAN WARNQVIST <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>_ wrote: Hello Doug, > Andrew et al. > Hydrogen gas has a fine heat value, which makes it very interesting as an > energy source. However, as Doug pointed out, it will be necessary to > obtain > the energy for the electrolysis from an outer source, why not from solar > cells, to make the energy balance favourable. Good Luck ! > Jan Warnqvist > AGERATEC AB > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > + 46 554 201 89 > +46 70 499 38 45 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 5:49 AM > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Water Powered Engine / Electrolysis > > > > What this amounts to is a really lousy, incompetent attempt at a > perpetual > > motion machine. > > > > You have to put in the energy to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen, > > then you get back the same energy when they recombine. There would be no > > surplus to run the vehicle even if every stage was perfectly efficient, > > which they are very far from being. > > > > Doug Woodard > > St, Catharines, Ontario, Canada > > > > > > > Just trying to pick the brains of the rest of the world.... > > > > > > This is pertaining to gasoline engines being run off of hydrogen from > an > > > electrolysis reaction onboard the vehicle. > > > http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/feb2/carplans_doc.htm > > > > > > What is the probability of this working correctly? Anyone done it? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Andrew > > > > > > Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Earth_Rescue_International http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Earth_Rescue_International/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuel mailing list > > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > > > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > Wildbill > > Sutton.VT > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > -------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > [LINK: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > [LINK: > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org] > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > [LINK: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html] > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > [LINK: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/] > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
