Thanks to all those who posted info regarding my endeavors with the charles 803.
I thought once I had the plans it would be all clear sailing..... not so it seems. There are many vaguaries and contradictions . For eg what is the diameter of the reduced pipe size connecting the reflux section and the condenser. 3/8" or 1.5".??? The 2d representation of the holes in the "bubbler" are a dogs breakfast. But then the doc that Keith posted suggested leaving the doubler/bubbler out all together ....... does this mechanism (bubbler) really do nothing.... The doc also suggests the stripping coil could be omitted altogether (this was in feference to the Tallgrass still which is very simlar). Since the temp probe for the auto valve is in the reflux collum and once you remove the lower coil you no longer have control over the vapours in the reflux section. Is this correct. Isnt there a need for a way to vary or control the temp in the reflux collum. thoughts anyone....... jessey At 01:19 PM 21/11/00 +0000, you wrote: >Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:43:32 +0900 > From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: Charles 803 - was Digest Number 196 > >Hi Jessey > > >ouch...... > > > >just bought the plans and materials for a charles 803 ....... > >So you managed to figure out the List of materials? Didn't you find >it a bit confusing? Are you sure you have everything you need? And >that you haven't bought parts you don't need? > > >there seems to be a significant body of evidence that this still can > >produce useable fuel..... > >thats why I have proceeded with this project..... > >what is going on with JTForeever and Robert W..... > >a falling out it seems.??? > >Read on. > > >I am trying to find an alternative ( read cheaper) to the US made Temp > >controlled valve suggested. > >I guess you're not the only one. I have two alternatives, but I don't >know if they're cheaper, nor how well they'll work. These are the >specs for the valve: Automatic temperature control valve, 3/8", >temperature activated, opens on temperature rise. Temperature range, >50 to 120 C (120 to 250F). > >Danfoss Model AVTA: -25 to +130 C, with +50 to +90 C capillary bulb, >opening on rising temp. (can be reversed), differential pressure 0 to >10 bar, max test pressure 25 bar, accuracy of 1% either side. (Thanks >to David Reid for this.) >http://www.danfoss.com/ > >Metrex 800-T-37SE >http://www.metrexvalve.com/valvesw1.htm > >See today's list messages from gawchicken: > >"> >the valve is a bradshaw water regulating valve and can be >purchased from johnstone supply in chattanooga tn, for $229.00. the >part number is nsv47ab-4 as i read it from the invoice.phone number >is 1 800 5250387. they deal with you on a credit card basis and you >get parts in two days. hope this helps." > >"the valve that robt warren touts is available from johnstone supply >for $229.00. it is a robertshaw water regulating valve and the part >number is nsv47ab-4. I thought of doing what robt warren is doing and >considered advertising them for an extra $100, but how would that >make a guy feel?" > >Yeah, exactly... Thankyou gawchicken! I'd tried so hard to get that >information out of Robert Warren, but couldn't even get the right >specs for that valve from him. All I got was that it was a Penn V47 >valve, no source given. Originally, when we first started this, he >said the valve cost $250 and he was trying to find a cheaper source. >That soon changed: figures I saw over the following months were: >$300, $350, $375, $395 (I doubt Warren knew I'd seen these figures). >Attempts to find other valves from other sources met with >obfuscation. So it's only $229... well well. Meanwhile the price for >the plans seems to have followed a similar upward curve. What did you >pay for them, Jessey? And what about the temperature gauge? Have you >also been offered gauges (maybe Ashcroft gauges) at fancy prices? > >Right, now there's more to this. If you look at the plans you'll see >it indicates the valve fitting and says: "Probe for auto valve IF >USED." (My capitals.) What you won't find anywhere in Warren's woolly >instructions is that YOU DON'T NEED THE VALVE. I'm sure it'll make >life easier, but you can do without it. > >Warren makes out that the valve is essential to operating the still. >Previously he told me he'd last run the still five or six years ago >at Boulder, Col., altitude "around 5,800 or 6,000 feet", without an >altitude conversion chart and with a two to three minute delay in the >temperature gauge readings (wrong type of gauge), adjusting the >cooling flow by feel: "the proof is in the proof", he said. He'd >"fine-tuned it without knowing the exact temperature". Conversely, if >that's the case, it should be possible, with a bit of a learning >curve, to control the temperature effectively with an accurate >thermometer and hydrometer but using an ordinary manual gate valve >rather than the automatic valve. > >In fact the original instructions provided to people building the >still in the early 80s when it was designed provide directions for >running the still without the automatic valve. It rather treats the >valve as a luxury: first comes manual control. "After a little >practice in controlling the temperature of the cooling section, the >operator should be able to run off alcohol at around 190 proof." > >Before I decided to dump the whole thing, and Robert Warren with it, >I spent some time trying to make better sense out of his building and >operating instructions. I think it worked - I ended up with half the >words and a lot more information, and certainly much less confusion >and contradiction. No doubt it still ain't perfect, but it might >help. If you like I can send it to you (without any guarantees). It >does include directions for running the still without the auto valve, >taken over from the original instructions. Maybe you'll be able to >make something out of the two sets of instructions, Warren's and >mine. Again, no guarantees, just trying to help. > >Finally, as soon as I dropped all the Charles 803 material from the >Journey to Forever site and from the List website at eGroups (about >10 days before I posted the "Charles 803 fuel ethanol still" message >to the list), Robert Warren's list membership started bouncing. His >mail.com address wasn't working any more, so I guess he dumped it. He >didn't bother to unsubscribe from the list, so about a week later, >still bouncing, I unsubscribed him. I hadn't contacted him prior to >dumping the stuff, I'd already given that up as a bad job. He does >have another address, but I haven't tried contacting him, nor him me. > >Best wishes > >Keith Addison >Journey to Forever >Handmade Projects >Tokyo >http://journeytoforever.org/ -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/2/_/837408/_/975294189/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
