Re: [biofuels-biz] Emissions of micro emulsions of vegetable oil
Back again. I am intrigued by recent mentions of Green diesel, blends of 75% vegeoil and 25% diesel. Vegeburner (great website by the way) also has quite a commentary on micro emulsions. Emulsions are very simple to make, and are less involved than producing biodiesel, and can be used straight away after blending. I have been using the 9% blended ethanol with vegeoil in my SVO kit (as per ACREVO report)and have been unable to notice any power difference between the emulsion and diesel. I presume there are quite a number of different emulsion blends out there, but has there been research that has studied emissions outputs or wear characteristics of these blends? Steven Hobbs www.bebioenergy.com Hello Steve What have you noticed comparing the 9% ethanol-SVO (or WVO?) blend with straight SVO (WVO), if anything? Which SVO kit is it (probably a pertinent question)? Anyway, as long as you (and all) are well aware that, unlike biodiesel use, it's not a well-travelled road and you can't trust the signposts, even more so than with SVO (still the case, though increasingly less so with good two-tank systems). I think Darren emphasizes that with micro-emulsions. An archive search for emulsion will give you some interesting reading, by the way: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuels-biz Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge refill kit orders to US Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Ferndale Washington Biodiesel Plant
Does anyone on this list know anything about the status of the proposed 3 million gallon per year plant in Ferndale, Washington? I spoke with the organizers back in February and they said they were on track to begin production by April or May. haven't heard anything since and they aren't responding to my emails. Any news or insight would be welcome. thor skov __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges Refill Kits for Your Epson at Myinks.com Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5705lp=home/epson.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/brYXfA/_xWGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuels-biz] Biodiesel Production Units
Here is another one: http://www.superiorprocesstech.com/ It really depends on what your looking for. Small, mid, or large production. As what's been said before, a small production unit can be cheaply made, by you. Most of the mid solutions that are out seem to be skid or container types up to ~500K. And the large production facilities are using industrial plant builders at a very high cost. Todd will be putting out a whitepaper on a small 2 stage acid/base plant sometime in the near future on JTF. I believe that smallish (ie. under 1000gpd) highly distributed plants are the way to go. Something akin to a city or area plant depending on feedstock availability. The scaling of BD production to a certain point really does simplify things, all the way from feedstock sourcing, production, to co-products reclaimation, and wastewater recycling. But as a point to show here, I make single stage batchs in 5 gal buckets 20 gal's at a time (looking to build a 55 gal drum processor soon). From that experience I would say that if your going to do over 10 gal's at a time, it's best to go with a larger processor, wash tank, etc system. I kinda came up with a formula for doubling and moving up to a larger processor and various gallon intervals. Kinda like 10 gal = 5 gal bucket processing, 20-40 gal = 35 - 55 gal drum processing, 100 gal, 200 gal, 400 gal, 1000 gal, 2000 gal, etc .. You get the picture. James Slayden On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Winny De Schryver wrote: Look at www.energea.at and www.biodieseltechnologies.com also superior technologies in the US is selling plants Winny -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: cheneyvii [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Verzonden: donderdag 17 juli 2003 9:18 Aan: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Onderwerp: [biofuels-biz] Biodiesel Production Units I would like information on Biodiesel production units. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges Refill Kits for Your Epson at Myinks.com Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5705lp=home/epson.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/brYXfA/_xWGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Ferndale Washington Biodiesel Plant
Hi Thor, Sorry about no reply to your postings and emails; exceptionally busy! I'll update you shortly. The latest is a massive washing and drying addition to the plant. Ferndale is still alive and well in the BD program. Dave [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge refill kit orders to US Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] the politics of energy solutions
Keith,
RE: [biofuels-biz] Biodiesel Production Units
Here is another one: http://www.superiorprocesstech.com/ Already covered in the link I gave: Biodiesel technology http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#tech As are Winnie's two refs. It really depends on what your looking for. Small, mid, or large production. As what's been said before, a small production unit can be cheaply made, by you. Most of the mid solutions that are out seem to be skid or container types up to ~500K. And the large production facilities are using industrial plant builders at a very high cost. Todd will be putting out a whitepaper on a small 2 stage acid/base plant sometime in the near future on JTF. Oh, will he be? News on me (on whom it depends), but good news, I expect. James, you don't need a special processor for the acid-base process, any processor will do. I suppose you could optimize a processor for acid-base, but I'm not sure how, nor why. A 5 gal bucket'll do just fine. Nothing special about two-stage processes as far as processors are concerned - you switch it off, you wait, maybe you drain something or maybe not, you switch it on again. Nor about acid-base: you add a catalyst each time, what does the processor care what catalyst it is? And you have to heat the stuff each time, as with all processes (well, nearly all). This is what the acid-base process page says: Equipment A bottom-drained reactor vessel is best, closed on top. Tall, narrow containers work better than wide, shallow ones. Use a circulating pump for mixing rather than a mechanical stirrer. The pump should take the mixture from near the bottom of the reactor and return it via the top, to splash down on the surface. For a 35-litre reactor, a 100-W washing-machine pump will do, along with a 1.5kW washing-machine immersion heater to heat the mixture (get a heater that's coated with stainless steel). You could use a thermostat to control the temperature, but they're expensive: just use a thermometer and switch on the heater as required. - From The FOOLPROOF way to make biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html That's just general information about processors, nothing specific to the acid-base process. Pumps need less power than stirrers for the same effect. The glycerine-draining part in the second stage is optional, as it says: If your reactor allows for it... A bottom-drained reactor vessel, closed on top, is best for any process, but not essential, and nor is it for the acid-base process. Best Keith I believe that smallish (ie. under 1000gpd) highly distributed plants are the way to go. Something akin to a city or area plant depending on feedstock availability. The scaling of BD production to a certain point really does simplify things, all the way from feedstock sourcing, production, to co-products reclaimation, and wastewater recycling. But as a point to show here, I make single stage batchs in 5 gal buckets 20 gal's at a time (looking to build a 55 gal drum processor soon). From that experience I would say that if your going to do over 10 gal's at a time, it's best to go with a larger processor, wash tank, etc system. I kinda came up with a formula for doubling and moving up to a larger processor and various gallon intervals. Kinda like 10 gal = 5 gal bucket processing, 20-40 gal = 35 - 55 gal drum processing, 100 gal, 200 gal, 400 gal, 1000 gal, 2000 gal, etc .. You get the picture. James Slayden On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Winny De Schryver wrote: Look at www.energea.at and www.biodieseltechnologies.com also superior technologies in the US is selling plants Winny -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: cheneyvii [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Verzonden: donderdag 17 juli 2003 9:18 Aan: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Onderwerp: [biofuels-biz] Biodiesel Production Units I would like information on Biodiesel production units. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge refill kit orders to US Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] the politics of energy solutions
Hello Bruce Keith, From the bits. My orientation is cautious capitalist; a curious blend of 7 parts libertarian with 2 parts conservative, and 1 part social liberal. Strange brew I suppose. But I strongly believe in the individual versus the social collective. Each needs the other, IMO, and in my experience as well. I think the either/or of it only applies at the extremes. Another example of the extreme polarization of America? Think I should add that when I say in my experience as well it's objective, not subjective, an observation, not clouded by personal circumstances - I don't belong to anything, never have. I don't even have a home, a family, a country, I don't belong to any community, and I don't even feel that I'm lacking those things. And I agree with you, broad brush on all and every isn't the way to go. But it's an easy trap to fall into and sometimes I sin. Ah yes, don't we all. That said; from over 15 years experience in mid-to senior management with investor owned utilities I was witness to egregious politics on both sides of the fence. That said however, often times it was the hard core environmentalist that often played the part of obstructionists to pratically anything constructive or any compromise. That only comes from my experience in theater if you will. I agree there are good and sincere folks on either side of the fence - however, from experience I know that many in the senior management of the large environmental groups have compromised with the big energy interests. The worker bees at the lower levels of either side's organizations are truly where the heart and soul is of the matter - both groups would love nothing more than to compromise and get on with solutions - not politics. Hm... I don't like the big groups, generally, with some exceptions. I've worked with and for most of them, so I know them quite well. I think small, local groups do much better, but they don't get their fair share because the big groups tend to shoulder them aside. But there IS a definite role for the big groups which small groups can't fill, other than through coalitions maybe. The problem with all this is that you have to be really careful in criticizing them that you don't fall into the anti-environmentalist trap set by the Wise Use and think-tank spin merchants, which has been very effective and is basically dishonest. This is where the real problem lies, of which corrupted environment groups are but a symptom. I was specifically interested in what you said about Greenpeace and big energy interests. Links between big business and the big environment groups are well-known. For instance (I've posted this previously): Stauber: Big environmental organizations, socially responsible investment funds, and other groups perpetuate the myth that if we just write checks to them, they'll heal the environment, reform the corrupt campaign-finance system, protect our freedom of speech, and reign in corporate power. This is a dangerous falsehood, because it implies that we don't have to sweat and struggle to make democracy work. It's so much easier to write a check for twenty-five or fifty dollars than it is to integrate our concerns about critical issues into our daily lives and organize with our neighbors for democracy. Many so-called public-interest organizations have become big businesses, multinational nonprofit corporations. The PR industry knows this and exploits it well with the type of co-optation strategies that Duchin recommends. Jensen: This seems especially true of big environmental groups. Stauber: E. Bruce Harrison, one of the most effective public-relations practitioners in the business, knows that all too well. He's made a lucrative career out of helping polluting companies defeat environmental regulations while simultaneously giving the companies a green public image. In the industry, they call him the Dean of Green. As a longtime opponent of the environmental movement, Harrison has developed some interesting insights into its failures. He says, The environmental movement is dead. It really died in the last fifteen years, from success. I think he's correct. What he means is that, in the eighties and nineties, environmentalism became a big business, and organizations like the Audubon Society, the Wilderness Society, the National Wildlife Federation, the Environmental Defense Fund, and the Natural Resources Defense Council became competing multi-million-dollar bureaucracies. These organizations, Harrison says, seem much more interested in the business of greening than in fighting for fundamental social change. He points out, for instance, that the Environmental Defense Fund (whose executive director makes a quarter of a million dollars a year) sat down and cut a deal with McDonald's that was probably worth hundreds of millions of dollars in publicity to the fast-food giant, because it helped to greenwash its public image. Jensen:
RE: [biofuels-biz] Biomass pellets
Let us know how you get on, Regards Steven www.bebioenergy.com -Original Message- From: Contactos Mundiales [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 9:23 AM To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuels-biz] Biomass pellets Dear Steven: I will try that in our factory oven. We have lots of free sawdust available to us. Thanks very much for your suggestion and best regards, Luis [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Steven Helen Hobbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 4:52 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Biomass pellets In a posting a couple of days ago, there was the mention of producing biomass pellets. I think there is a lot of merit in the idea. We cold press oil on the farm for my own use (biodiesel/SVO) and the fines that settle out of the oil, we mix with saw dust (from the wood heap) or wood shavings, make balls and wrap them in newspaper. Tie the top with string, and bingo...firelighters (we call them canola bombs!). We use them either to help start a fire, of if you've got a lot of them, burn them like you would wood. They burn really well, about half an hour each, and make a lot of heat. Just my 2 bobs worth. Steven www.bebioenergy.com Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 10/07/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 10/07/2003 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge refill kit orders to US Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuels-biz] Emissions of micro emulsions of vegetable oil
Hi Keith I installed a kit using one of Eds heaters. The old ute purred away happily enough on SVO, but I lost a bit of steam going up hills. I read the ACREVO report and I thought that sounded pretty impressive. I initially tried methanol, but it wouldn't stay in emulsion...so I got hold of, and tried some ethanol (exactally what the report said!) When I tried it in the ute, I couldn't pick any difference between the power loss I normally experience on diesel and the emulsion. Just as another note, I use cold pressed virgin oil, unrefined. Perhaps to use it more successfully I should refine it (degum) Thanks for the link Regards Steven www.bebioenergy.com -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 5:00 PM To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Emissions of micro emulsions of vegetable oil Back again. I am intrigued by recent mentions of Green diesel, blends of 75% vegeoil and 25% diesel. Vegeburner (great website by the way) also has quite a commentary on micro emulsions. Emulsions are very simple to make, and are less involved than producing biodiesel, and can be used straight away after blending. I have been using the 9% blended ethanol with vegeoil in my SVO kit (as per ACREVO report)and have been unable to notice any power difference between the emulsion and diesel. I presume there are quite a number of different emulsion blends out there, but has there been research that has studied emissions outputs or wear characteristics of these blends? Steven Hobbs www.bebioenergy.com Hello Steve What have you noticed comparing the 9% ethanol-SVO (or WVO?) blend with straight SVO (WVO), if anything? Which SVO kit is it (probably a pertinent question)? Anyway, as long as you (and all) are well aware that, unlike biodiesel use, it's not a well-travelled road and you can't trust the signposts, even more so than with SVO (still the case, though increasingly less so with good two-tank systems). I think Darren emphasizes that with micro-emulsions. An archive search for emulsion will give you some interesting reading, by the way: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuels-biz Best Keith Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 10/07/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 10/07/2003 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge refill kit orders to US Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Biodiesel Production Units
Todd will be putting out a whitepaper on a small 2 stage acid/base plant sometime in the near future on JTF. Oh, will he be? News on me (on whom it depends), but good news, I expect. I believe it was placed in the context of it could be placed at JTF for everyone to view if such were amenable. The thought was vocalized after a question was posed along the lines of where can I buy a processor. My response was after someone posted an extremely overpriced plastic bucket and motor at Yahoo Biodiesel, with my thoughts being why should anyone put themselves in a position of being shaken down when they can do the same thing for pennies on the dollar? None the less, that's the entire purpose of what's being done here - solidifying a cookie cutter process and a 330 - 500 gpd system that can meet any state, federal and local EPA regs on all accounts (VOCs, waste water, MeOH recovery, glycerol disposal, etc.) all on a shoestring budget - then publish it on the web and let all those with a little moxy reproduce it in their own locals. That's the best way to get this to mushroom as fast as it needs to. The whole concept of capitalistic proprietary knowledge will only slow that growth down or permanently stunt it. James, you don't need a special processor for the acid-base process, any processor will do. I suppose you could optimize a processor for acid-base, but I'm not sure how, nor why. A 5 gal bucket'll do just fine. Sure don't. But going acid/base does slow production down a bit, making it necessary to give some thought to enlarging a system or doubling the number of reactors (1 acid, 1 base) if the system is already at or near max output. Todd Swearingen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges Refill Kits for Your Epson at Myinks.com Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5705lp=home/epson.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/brYXfA/_xWGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] States and individual rights, not social darwinsim (was Re: If youre pro war)
Hi Eric My point was a bit misconstrued here. Somewhat, but I think not totally. But no need for me to chip in here, so... snip ... it's in our best interests to make sure as many people as possible can swim. For that to be most effective, it has to happen at as local a level as possible without meddling from Washington. ... however... In short, my point was that the feds should have nothing to do with educating kids (Head start, teachers, college scholarships), health care, housing, and CNG conversions for automobiles. It was meant as a rant against big government putting its fingers where it didn't belong, NOT a rant to let people suffer. ... should say (though others are saying it most eloquently), re babies and bathwater, there are very many places where its fingers not only do only belong but are essential. The statement reads better without the big in big government, less loaded. Re what you say above about as local a level as possible and please get lost Washington, an archive search for decentralized will get you some interesting reading. http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Best Keith Eric snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sOykFB/k9VGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: If youre pro war, read this!!!!!
You did not, because you did not have a UN mandate to do it. It was also the embarrassing fact that Saddam Huessien asked you for permission to invade Kuweit and your ambassador screwed it up by not giving a clear answer. He interpreted it as he had your permission. However, look for the motive as they always say. If you do, we are back to my original presumption. With current R/P value of 10 years for oil and 7 years for Natural gas, I think that it is telling. What I would do? First I would concentrate on making a sustainable Energy Plan for US, which minimized dependence on fossil fuels and really did something on energy conservation. Secondly, I am happy that I cannot be elected as US president. Because I am very bad on lies and prefer not to have to do them. Would not be able to work well with people like Cheney, Rumsfelt and the rest of the gang. Hakan At 10:01 PM 7/17/2003 +, you wrote: Well, it never was given as a reason... Probably we should have taken out Saddam back in '91. Does anybody remember why we didn't? My short memory might be faulty, but it seems like the UN and the world community didn't want to. They wanted to play around with the embargo. If somebody can confirm that, I'd appreciate it, becasue I really am not sure. I think the UN and the world thought the embargo was an appropriate punishment, so I don't think we can blame the it on the US. Here's a link http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-1/449/449_08_RegimeCollapse.shtml to a brief history of the governance of Iraq for the past 50 or 60 years. I can't vouch for it's accuracy; It isn't what you'd call a source I've got a great familiarity with :). I think it probably is better to do the right thing late than not at all. Yes it did cost lives to not support the Iraqi attempted revolution. So given the situation early this spring, what would have been acceptable evidence (or reason if you prefer) for the congress to declare war on Iraq? The UN didn't have enough hair on its backside to enforce their own resolution, so how would you get around The World Community (That's mostly France, Russia, and Germany who sold a ton of stuff to Iraq on credit that wouldn't get repaid after a war) and their resistance to do what the UN really should have done on its own? I'll also admit to getting out of my league in this discussion. My original point was simply that we ought not be using federal dollars to do allot of things that the federal government does, no more no less, and I'd like to steer the discussion back to that direction. Eric --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eric, I have not heard that reason before and if that was the sole reason, I could have supported it. Some of those mass graves are also from the period when Iraq fought a proxy war against Iran. I do not want to argue, because some of them are also from more recent days. I have never said that Saddam Hussein was not a brutal dictator, because he was. I am not going to say that Bush was not lying to us either, because he did. Two wrongs does not make one right and they are both despicable. Personally I believe that the Iraqi people would have had a better chance against Saddam, if US would not have weaken them by an embargo that killed thousands of children and broke down the infrastructure and moral of the people. I belive that a good support to the resistance when it needed it, would have changed things. Instead of betrayal and inactivity, when they were killed in thousands. That was a large inhumanity at the time and I was baffled by the US double moral. So many of those mass graves are from a time when US encouraged uprising, but failed to help the ones who did and by that share a certain responsibility for the existence of those mass graves. Think about all those brave men who thought that they had the US support and what they must have thought when they faced the execution squads. I know that the Americans have short memory, but it should at least be some limitations of what you are allowed to forget. Hakan At 07:00 PM 7/17/2003 +, you wrote: Tell the families digging through the mass graves for their relatives that we didn't do the right thing. Eric --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eric, Do not worry, if US can get the right American democracy government in place. US have secured close to its 25% need of the worlds oil resources and the money was well spent. In that case you can definitely say that US did the right thing for US. Who cares about the Iraqis? They have the wrong religion and do not appreciate the American culture anyway. The world is a better place for American actions, after Iraq. It is so afraid of Americans, that it is a petty that US cannot benefit from the extra Biogas production and use it for solving the
Re: [biofuel] A thought on Hydrogen vs. Ethanol vs. Whatever
It also seems to me that Ethanol could be used is a mixed spark/EV Hybrid as a single fuel source. This could also be said of straight Hydrogen, with without the headache. Something that an interrim solution could met out. James Slayden On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, robert luis rabello wrote: murdoch wrote: Ethanol is produced, distributed and sold in virtually every nation on earth. It is easy to do, and operates under some severe restrictions in some countries, ostensibly because it can be sold as a drug (i.e. alcohol). This is a serious impediment. Ethanol is the easiest renewable fuel to convert for an externally mixed, spark ignited engine. I'm confident that with high pressure fuel injection, it would be even easier. The legal paranoia about non taxed ethanol sales leads to some very restrictive legislation. Here in Canada, it is illegal to own and operate an ethanol still as an individual. If I own a company, I can apply for a permit, but it can never be sold or dismantled without permission. What I wish to examine is whether a commonly available and easily produced chemical such as ethanol (or methanol, or any of a variety of chemicals) wouldn't be, in some ways and cases, superior to Hydrogen. In my view, and I have been a hydrogen fuel enthusiast for many years, is that ethanol beats hydrogen as a transportation fuel hands down. It's easier and cheaper to produce. It's easier and safer to handle, and it requires significantly fewer engine modifications than hydrogen. Getting around the legal issues is ethanol's biggest hurdle. I wonder if Hydrogen is being suggested as a sort of cure-all for World Energy storage and conversion in part because it is a solution which favors larger businesses and the like rather than at-home producers and distributors and users. In the case of Mr. Bush's proposal, I think you're bang on. However, hydrogen CAN be produced at home with relatively simple and inexpensive equipment. Storage is a serious issue that has to be dealt with wisely. I was trying to envision someone living on a few acres with a year-round stream. Could they make and store and use their own hydrogen? Yes, if the creek had enough volume and vertical fall. Would it be easier to do this with ethanol or some other more-common and more easily handled chemical? I think so. As we go forward, devices are being researched with great earnestness that will allow the everyday person to manufacture and store hydrogen, hopefully without too much fanfare. Good. That Hydrogen can readily be used in fuel cells seems to not be in doubt. The need for hydrogen stems from the fact that all bets seem to be on proton exchange membranes for fuel cells. This technology requires very pure hydrogen. Right now, the best fuel cells are running in the 30% efficiency range on pure hydrogen. A decent diesel engine beats this hands down, represents a significantly lower capital investment and is mature technology ready for use right now. Further, less than completely pure hydrogen could be run in a modified spark ignited engine, and if that engine is designed intelligently, its efficiency would exceed that of a fuel cell--and again, for a LOT less money. Less than completely pure hydrogen can be derived from steam reformed wood gas. For stationary applications in areas with excess biomass, this approach makes a lot of sense and effectively eliminates storage concerns. I'm very skeptical of the current administration's drive for hydrogen. But I wonder if the same level of earnestness is being put into researching fuel cells that could more easily use already-easily-produceable chemicals such as ethanol. I have seen little or no evidence of this. A few years ago, I attended an investment seminar in this area. A gentleman designed an ethanol fuel cell around a monopole motor, with a clever centrifugal mechanism for removing the waste chalk. This idea could be coupled with an electric drive train to eliminate range concerns with battery electric vehicles. As far as I know, the ethanol fuel cell idea didn't pan out--not because it wasn't a good idea, but because everyone was so afraid of monopole motors (which are supposed to be inefficient, I've heard) the company couldn't raise enough money to move forward. All of the stories I've seen which suggest an attempt to use non-Hydrogen alternatives in fuel cells seem to focus on those fuels which are presently products of the fossil fuel industry (natural gas, gasoline) and which are not quite as readily produced or handled or stored at home. There's a reason for that. . . This is a sloppy hypothesis, and I do not suggest it will hold up firmly, but when we consider the present hurdles to the everyday guy making and storing and using his own H2, I had to wonder out
[biofuel] Re: If youre pro war, read this!!!!!
So is there no obligation to keep bad people from doing bad things?
If you walked past an alley and someone was being beaten would you:
1) keep on walking, or
2) go get a commitee together to decide if the person doing the beating should
be stopped, or
3) just go in and stop the beating, or
4) look for an inspector to determine whether there was actual beating occuring
or not before deciding what to do?
If OJ simpson were out Knife shopping, wouldn't you keep an eye on him, and try
to intervene before he decided to off his latest girlfriend?
Exactly what lie was told?
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/monacharen/mc20030718.shtml
This whole lie is a political sham to give the Democrats a snowballs chance
in hades of winning the presidency next year.
My biggest fear is that Bush will go so far to the left (perscription drugs,
willy nilly spending, etc..) that he'll lose his base (and the election), just
like his daddy did in '92.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jonahgoldberg/jg20030718.shtml
For all the whining about Bush, just what kind of response do you suppose Big
Al would have had to september '01? Algore's lies are well documented.
http://connect.247media.ads.link4ads.com/serv/1/National_Review_Online/National_Review_Online/National_Review_Online_ROS/40265;type=t;uniq=2003.07.18.10.42.40
To be fair, I looked for Bushes lies too, and apparently his opposition isn't
too well organized. The best I could find was this:
http://www.bushwatch.com/bushlies.htm
And after reading about half of the sheet, it seemed that most all of them were
not Bush lies, but rather Bush ADMINISTRATION lies - not quite the same thing.
I can understand statements within an organization being delivered by different
people at different times in different people getting scrambled. That's part
of the nature of large organizations - unfortunate, but true. I'd think that
Al could remember whether he actually raised tobacco on his farm or whether he
really invented the internet
Eric
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
{snip}
What I would do?
First I would concentrate on making a sustainable Energy
Plan for US, which minimized dependence on fossil fuels
and really did something on energy conservation.
Secondly, I am happy that I cannot be elected as US
president. Because I am very bad on lies and prefer not
to have to do them. Would not be able to work well with
people like Cheney, Rumsfelt and the rest of the gang.
Hakan
{snip}
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Re: [biofuel] Re: If youre pro war, read this!!!!!
Not to argue or disparage any thing else that has been said, high birth rates can also indicate a solid religious belief that places high value on family and family values as well as, poverty. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 01:00 Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: If youre pro war, read this! Bryan, high birthrates are absolutely a symptom of poverty. The best (only?) way to reduce high birthrates is to reduce poverty; women's empowerment and education are fundamental aspects of poverty reduction, and also immediately result in lower birthrates. The Bushies' anti-family planning stance worldwide and general economic policies are devastating in their effects on poor communities, and especially on women. See, among others (embarrassment of riches here, so to speak): Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge refill kit orders to US Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] RE: Question about the Process Flowchart (fwd)
An interesting sumation of what some of the soy BD producers are doing with their FFA co-product. Who woulda guessed .. Better living through Bovine FFA recycling. James Slayden -- Forwarded message -- Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:29:12 -0500 From: Ron Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'James Slayden' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Question about the Process Flowchart James, The FFA's are a coproduct of manufacturing Biodiesel. We transesterify the soy oil to make methyl esters. The FFA we have is because of the oil having about 1% FFA. We sell the FFA to people that are interested. Generally it goes to an animal feed outfit. Ron -Original Message- From: James Slayden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 12:23 PM To: Ron Brown Subject: Question about the Process Flowchart Hello Ron, I was recently perusing the REG webpage and have a question about the process flowchart. It indicates that one of the by-products is FFA's. Was this due to Glyc purification or some other process? What are the installed facilities doing with the FFA's? Thanks, James Slayden Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy No Snore Get a Good Night's Sleep. Natural Oral Spray -- $24.95 (1 bottle, 1 month supply, with sweet almond oil, eucalyptus oil more). http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2881lp=h515.html http://us.click.yahoo.com/2oMABA/nuYGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Could this be true???????
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/chapter4/ But they're not equilateral triangles. In the lower diagrams the compass is not at the same angle on the seals as it is in the Masonic diagram, and the squares on the seals are not square. The squashed pentagon in the map is really pushing it. All very contrived, IMO. Just more conspiracism is all - so what, but the trouble with conspiracists is that they're so good at obscuring the real conspiracies, and, indeed, falling for them, all too often. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy No Snore Get a Good Night's Sleep. Natural Oral Spray -- $24.95 (1 bottle, 1 month supply, with sweet almond oil, eucalyptus oil more). http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2881lp=h515.html http://us.click.yahoo.com/2oMABA/nuYGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: If youre pro war, read this!!!!!
Keith, You're arguing the same issue from a different perspective. My point was that the western powers want to keep the status quo in Africa. Any action on their part to ameliorate the physical or economic suffering of the third world is simply a charade. Historically western governments have used a variety of indirect methods for exploitation and control. From smallpox blankets to AIDS and from fire water to opium, the details may be different but the results are the same. I assert that the situation in Africa will not change as long as western nations maintain their ascendancy. -BRAH -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 2:00 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: If youre pro war, read this! Not to confuse two separate issues, but it just so happens that Liberia has natural resources. It has gold, diamonds, and a rare type of silicon used in cellular phones, so I don't think our motives for going to the Dark Continent are quite as pure as the administration would have us believe. The fifteen billion earmarked for African AIDS is not a lot of money compared to what we're currently spending elsewhere. Most likely, that money will go right back to western companies providing humanitarian services, drugs, food, medical equipment, etc. De-population of Africa is seen as a good thing by western leaders. It gives us easier access to natural resources, and in environmental parlance reduces the burden on the biosphere. While the population of industrialized nations is steadily falling, the average birth rate in Africa is on average 3 times higher. AIDS and civil unrest are good ways to keep these irresponsible breeders in check. After all, our dear mother earth has enough trouble supporting the more than six billion people already living. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that the money that Dubya spends in Africa will have a less than marginal effect on the AIDS epidemic. In marked contrast, the inevitable U.S. military presence established (in Liberia perhaps) to Provide Security for humanitarian aid workers, will work wonderfully. With global hegemony first and foremost in the minds of American leaders and planners, African involvement is just a matter of opportunity. -BRAH Bryan, high birthrates are absolutely a symptom of poverty. The best (only?) way to reduce high birthrates is to reduce poverty; women's empowerment and education are fundamental aspects of poverty reduction, and also immediately result in lower birthrates. The Bushies' anti-family planning stance worldwide and general economic policies are devastating in their effects on poor communities, and especially on women. See, among others (embarrassment of riches here, so to speak): http://us.oneworld.net/article/view/62393/1/ War on Poverty? Nice Words, But... This... ... After all, our dear mother earth has enough trouble supporting the more than six billion people already living. ... is a myth, an apologia widely held in (guess) the rich countries with the HUGE eco-footprints. There's plenty of room for everyone EXCEPT the rich and greedy, probably the top (? - I'd say bottom) 1% at the most. According to the United Nations Development Programme, the richest 1% of the world's population receives as much income as the poorest 57%. The world's richest fifth consumes 86% of all goods and services while the poorest fifth consumes just 1.3%. The richest fifth consumes 45% of all meat and fish, 58% of all energy used, and 84% of all toilet paper, has 74% of all telephone lines, and owns 87% of all vehicles. The world's 225 richest individuals, of whom 60 are American with total assets of $311 billion, have a combined wealth of over $1 trillion - equal to the annual income of the poorest 47% of the entire world's population. (Source: NYTimes, 9/26/98, Week in Review section.) This is NOT the way to decrease soaring birthrates: UN statistics provide evidence of the widening gap between rich and poor: In nine years, the income ratio between the top 20% and the bottom 20% has increased from 60:1 to 74:1. Eighty countries have less revenue than they did a decade ago. The assets of the 200 richest people exceed the combined income of 41% of the world's total population. (Monday, July 12, 1999, BBC World News) In probably the most comprehensive study to date, Scorecard on Globalization 1980-2000, Mark Weisbrot, Dean Baker and other researchers at the Center for Economic and Policy Research found that economic growth and rates of improvement in life expectancy, child mortality, education levels and literacy all declined in the era of global corporatization (1980-2000) compared to 1960-1980. Millions of people who could have escaped a lifetime of poverty under the former rules of market economics under democratic limits were unable to do so under the new rules of global
Re: [biofuel] Re: If youre pro war, read this!!!!!
Eric,
I know that US is a very dangerous place to live in and if
you called the police, you would probably be arrested for
being at the wrong place at the wrong time.
What are you telling me, that all Americans lie?
I agree that it is easier to spot the few true things, said by
the Bush administration, than following all the lies.
However, on occasions you can even catch Bush. Like
the latest (that I know of),
THE PRESIDENT:
The larger point is, and the fundamental question is,
did Saddam Hussein have a weapons program?
And the answer is, absolutely. And we gave him a
chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't
let them in. And, therefore, after a reasonable request,
we decided to remove him from power,
along with other nations, so as to make sure he was
not a threat to the United States and our friends
and allies in the region. I firmly believe the decisions
we made will make America more secure and
the world more peaceful.
I maybe have to inform you that the inspectors was allowed in
and also full access.
Search the motives and I will repeat what I said to start with,
Eric,
Do not worry, if US can get the right American democracy
government in place. US have secured close to its 25% need
of the worlds oil resources and the money was well spent. In
that case you can definitely say that US did the right thing for
US. Who cares about the Iraqis? They have the wrong religion
and do not appreciate the American culture anyway. The world
is a better place for American actions, after Iraq. It is so afraid of
Americans, that it is a petty that US cannot benefit from the extra
Biogas production and use it for solving the Natural gas problem.
You are too pessimistic, try to look at it from the bright side.
That is what I suggested. Even if the natural gas problem remains.
The Iraqis that was betrayed and murdered by Saddam, with US
as instigator and silent onlooker are dead. Do not expect that
their families and friends should love the Americans. I have full
understanding of that some people will try to take a potshot on
Americans, when they finally comes in the shooting range.
Personally, I am against violent revenge or any other killings,
but that does not mean that I do not understand the motives.
Hakan
At 03:04 PM 7/18/2003 +, you wrote:
So is there no obligation to keep bad people from doing bad things?
If you walked past an alley and someone was being beaten would you:
1) keep on walking, or
2) go get a commitee together to decide if the person doing the beating
should be stopped, or
3) just go in and stop the beating, or
4) look for an inspector to determine whether there was actual beating
occuring or not before deciding what to do?
If OJ simpson were out Knife shopping, wouldn't you keep an eye on him,
and try to intervene before he decided to off his latest girlfriend?
Exactly what lie was told?
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/monacharen/mc20030718.shtml
This whole lie is a political sham to give the Democrats a snowballs
chance in hades of winning the presidency next year.
My biggest fear is that Bush will go so far to the left (perscription
drugs, willy nilly spending, etc..) that he'll lose his base (and the
election), just like his daddy did in '92.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jonahgoldberg/jg20030718.shtml
For all the whining about Bush, just what kind of response do you suppose
Big Al would have had to september '01? Algore's lies are well documented.
http://connect.247media.ads.link4ads.com/serv/1/National_Review_Online/National_Review_Online/National_Review_Online_ROS/40265;type=t;uniq=2003.07.18.10.42.40
To be fair, I looked for Bushes lies too, and apparently his opposition
isn't too well organized. The best I could find was this:
http://www.bushwatch.com/bushlies.htm
And after reading about half of the sheet, it seemed that most all of them
were not Bush lies, but rather Bush ADMINISTRATION lies - not quite the
same thing. I can understand statements within an organization being
delivered by different people at different times in different people
getting scrambled. That's part of the nature of large organizations -
unfortunate, but true. I'd think that Al could remember whether he
actually raised tobacco on his farm or whether he really invented the
internet
Eric
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
{snip}
What I would do?
First I would concentrate on making a sustainable Energy
Plan for US, which minimized dependence on fossil fuels
and really did something on energy conservation.
Secondly, I am happy that I cannot be elected as US
president. Because I am very bad on lies and prefer not
to have to do them. Would not be able to work well with
people like Cheney, Rumsfelt and the rest of the gang.
Hakan
{snip}
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/
Please do NOT send
[biofuel] Blair Bush visit Iraq's Nuclear Weapon
According to Mr. Blair, People don't generally know· in the 1980s that Iraq purchased 270 tons of uranium from Niger. Blair Part II: the Unicycle of Evil and Poppy's Bomb Greg Palast Friday, July 18, 2003 http://gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=232row=0 Do you see it? Right there, right under Tony Blair and George Bush: During their press conference Thursday, Fox News ran a continuous ribbon of text at the bottom of the screen. It said, THEY ARE LYING TO YOU. FIRST, BRITAIN'S PRIME MINISTER, STANDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS, WILL TELL A BIG FAT FIB AND THEN OUR PRESIDENT, STANDING WITH HIM AT THE WHITE HOUSE, WILL STUTTER, SPUTTER AND THEN LIE IN YOUR FACE. Well OK, that's not the exact phrase that the Fox Network ran, but that's what the text runner meant. While Tony Blair thumped his chest and told congress, We promised Iraq democratic government - we will deliver it, the ticker-tape at the bottom of the TV screen said that our appointed chieftain in Iraq, Paul Bremer III, had announced that there would be no elections in Iraq - not until next year, or later. Then it was our President's turn. He used the phrase free Iraq about half a dozen times. We know Iraq is free because Mr. Bush explained, he has just appointed Iraq's governing council. The puppet show, our president told us gleefully, is now meeting regularly. What about -- dare I mention the word -- ELECTIONS? To ask during a presidential press conference about the possibility that Iraqis be allowed to vote is considered as appropriate as passing wind at a debutante ball. Democracy, Mr. Bush wagged his finger, will take time to create. Indeed, it's only right that free and fair elections in Iraq should wait until after free and fair elections in Florida. And THAT is not scheduled until after 2004. Democracy, Bush and Blair admonish us, is not something we can rush into. Their point was illustrated this week when, in a little noticed announcement, Bush's man Bremer, who issues his dictates from Saddam's old office, cancelled all local elections. Bremer has decided that what Iraqis really needs now more than the chance to chose their government is an armed and unchallengeable strongman, himself. At the press conference, the questions moved from democracy to Blair's and Bush's jointly written work of fiction: the tale of Saddam's buying up nuclear mud from the African nation of Niger. The story was, as the English say, bollocks, but George Bush gamely insisted that, I strongly BELIEVE [Saddam] was trying to reconstitute his nuclear program. Mr. Bush used the term believe several times. It seems that as a child, our President was awestruck by the repetitive annunciation of faith to revive Tinkerbell (We believe in fairies, Tink! We really BELIEVE!). He is apparently unaware that the decision to go war is supposed to be based, not on beliefs, but on hard intelligence. Blair visibly squirmed through Bush's twisting and ducking around the simple question of why Bush slithered this African hot-dirt fable into the State of the Union address. Faced with having to unmuddle the President's inchoate response, Blair hiked up his eyebrows then fetched up this stunner: People don't generally know· in the 1980s that Iraq purchased 270 tons of uranium from Niger. Indeed, people don't know that, Tony, because your government and the US government did it's damned best to cover it up. In the 1980s, Saddam was OUR butcher in Baghdad, a buddy of Ronald Reagan and Bush Senior. During my investigations for BBC television, I discovered during the Reagan-Bush years, Saudi Arabians gave Saddam, with a wink and nod from the US and UK, $7 billion to build a nuclear weapon so he could incinerate his enemy, Iran. However, that was back before there was an 'Axis of Evil' and Iran was the Unicycle of Evil. So that was today's news: no elections in Iraq, a confession about Poppy Bush's old bomb for Saddam, and photo ops of a boy and his lapdog. If you listened carefully, our president salted his responses with some unintended truths. Standing next to Blair, George Bush concluded, Freedom and self-government are hated and opposed by a radical and ruthless few. Yes, George - I can easily name two. ~~~ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge refill kit orders to US Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to:
Re: [biofuel] Bush's latest installment in the book of revisionist history...
Hi Hoagy I don't want to snip this, but see your question near the end about the mainstream media. [On Monday, July 14th, Bush unveiled his latest chapter in the book of Iraq Revisionist History...] snip http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/6303477.htm I had been reading a little about this and the statement referred to is posted here -- http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030714-3.html THE PRESIDENT: The larger point is, and the fundamental question is, did Saddam Hussein have a weapons program? And the answer is, absolutely. And we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in. And, therefore, after a reasonable request, we decided to remove him from power, along with other nations, so as to make sure he was not a threat to the United States and our friends and allies in the region. I firmly believe the decisions we made will make America more secure and the world more peaceful. - The White House explanation for Mr. Bush's statement -- http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030715-2.html Q Two quick questions, one on Iraq. When the President said of Saddam Hussein, we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in and he wouldn't let them in, why didn't he say that, when the inspectors went into Iraq? MR. McCLELLAN: What he was referring to was the fact that Saddam Hussein was not complying with 1441, that he continued his past pattern and refused to comply with Resolution 1441 of the United Nations Security Council, which was his final opportunity to comply. And the fact that he was trying to thwart the inspectors every step of the way, and keep them from doing their job. So that's what he's referring to in that statement. Q But that isn't what he said. - President Caught In Another Lie. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4110.htm This is just one more example of president Bush hiding one lie behind another. 07/15/03: During a press briefing at the Whitehouse with United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan on Monday, 07/14/03, our president continued to lie to the American people. This latest instance of Presidential deceit relates to the reasons for the U.S. invasion of Iraq. When questioned about his comments in the state of the union address relating to the now discredited claim that Iraq tried to buy Uranium yellowcake from Niger, the president said. The larger point is, and the fundamental question is, did Saddam Hussein have a weapons program? And the answer is, absolutely. And we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in. And, therefore, after a reasonable request, we decided to remove him from power, along with other nations, so as to make sure he was not a threat to the United States and our friends and allies in the region. I firmly believe the decisions we made will make America more secure and the world more peaceful. This as clearly a lie by our president, And we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in. And, therefore, after a reasonable request, we decided to remove him from power President Bush has rewritten history and provided a new reason as to why he ordered the US invasion of Iraq. The actual circumstances were that the UN inspectors were in Iraq and the Iraqi government was providing unfettered access to UN weapons inspectors. UN inspectors were busy dismantling Iraqi missiles when they were instructed to leave Iraq, prior to the US - UK invasion. This is just one more example of president Bush hiding one lie behind another. Why will our main stream media not follow up on theses outrages untruths and insist that the president be held accountable for his lies. Here's part of the reason: Stauber: Journalism is in drastic decline. It's become a lousy profession. The commercial media are greed-driven enterprises dominated by a dozen transnational companies. Newsroom staffs have been downsized. Much of what you see on national and local TV news is actually video news releases prepared by public-relations firms and given free to TV stations and networks. News directors air these PR puff pieces disguised as news stories because it's a free way to fill air time and allows them to lay off reporters. Of course, it's not just television that's the problem. Academics who study public relations report that half or more of what appears in newspapers and magazines is lifted verbatim from press releases generated by public-relations firms. Jensen: That doesn't surprise me. But maybe I'm just cynical. Stauber: Frankly, if you're not cynical, you're not understanding what's happening. The reality is that the wheels of media are greased with more than $100 billion a year in corporate advertising. The advertisers' power to dictate the content of what we see as news and entertainment grows every year. After all,
[biofuel] opinions on Tennessee, NC, SC?
A friend in Knoxville once reported to me that it is still the case that, if you know whom to ask, you can get good moonshine (illegally distilled). I've been looking as to where to move, and probably won't have the guts to move across the country, but even so it occurred to me I might get one or two interesting off-handed ideas about Tennessee from this list. I'm not asking for advice. Frankly, I just think the people here are the sort who would also find these topics somewhat interesting to chew over. Whether it is their propensity to be allegedly the site of illegal ethanol manufacturing or hemp-for-clothing or marijuana (biggest cash crop in the State, the same friend alleges, though I'm not sure other states aren't similar on this point, if only because it's a black market crop), these are interesting points to me. These are not the only issues, and are not of interest because I'm inherently counter-the-law or handy on a farm. I'm neither. I guess there are several things. For example, Ive seldom (if ever?) met a single person from that State that I didn't like. But paradoxically, I'm told it would be tough for me there because the very strong Bible-Beltishness of it, and the nonsensical interest in local college football, etc. Also, I'd like to share a quote from East of Eden by Steinbeck, that I ran across the other day: ... But [he], looking out over his dry dust-obscured land, felt the panic the Eastern man always does at first in California. In a Connecticut summer two weeks without rain is a dry spell and four a drought. If the countryside is not green it is dying. But in California it does not ordinarily rain at all between the end of May and the first of November. The Eastern man, though he has been told, feels the earth is sick in the rainless months. All througout my time in California, I've found this to be more or less the case. I didn't quite realize until a train-ride through New Jersey a few years ago. That's quite a contrast, in the lushness. Anyway, just some thoughts. Sometimes I just get the impression that if some sort of underground semi-ethanol-based locally-oriented economies do develop in the States, that if the powers-that-be tried to crack down a bit, then some self-sufficient folks in a place like (but certainly not limited to) Tennessee could sort of look around and drawl, And your point is? while they quietly went about the biz of making whatever they felt like, and using it however they felt like. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get a FREE REFINANCE QUOTE - click here! http://us.click.yahoo.com/nHYuCC/ca0FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: If youre pro war, read this!!!!!
Where do I say that all Americans lie? The inspectors were not given ready access, nor were they given full ability to interview key personel freely. So what kind of Government would you want Iraq to have? Are you implying that all types of Democracy are evil? What makes it the right American Democracy I'm not sure how I'm being Pessimistic. I believe that the leadership of the US and British government did and is doing the morally correct thing. I'm not sure they spoke the right reasons for doing it, but I believe that we are doing the morally correct thing, and that Iraq will be a better country when we leave it than it was when we arrived. In some ways, I believe it already is. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree after your reply. This is WY off topic from my original post, which addressed states rights and individual rights within the US. We aren't going to resolve this, and we're cluttering the archives with off topic stuff. If you want to take this to another forum, however, I'll go along. Just let me know where we're going. Eric --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eric, I know that US is a very dangerous place to live in and if you called the police, you would probably be arrested for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. What are you telling me, that all Americans lie? I agree that it is easier to spot the few true things, said by the Bush administration, than following all the lies. However, on occasions you can even catch Bush. Like the latest (that I know of), THE PRESIDENT: The larger point is, and the fundamental question is, did Saddam Hussein have a weapons program? And the answer is, absolutely. And we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in. And, therefore, after a reasonable request, we decided to remove him from power, along with other nations, so as to make sure he was not a threat to the United States and our friends and allies in the region. I firmly believe the decisions we made will make America more secure and the world more peaceful. I maybe have to inform you that the inspectors was allowed in and also full access. Search the motives and I will repeat what I said to start with, Eric, Do not worry, if US can get the right American democracy government in place. US have secured close to its 25% need of the worlds oil resources and the money was well spent. In that case you can definitely say that US did the right thing for US. Who cares about the Iraqis? They have the wrong religion and do not appreciate the American culture anyway. The world is a better place for American actions, after Iraq. It is so afraid of Americans, that it is a petty that US cannot benefit from the extra Biogas production and use it for solving the Natural gas problem. You are too pessimistic, try to look at it from the bright side. That is what I suggested. Even if the natural gas problem remains. The Iraqis that was betrayed and murdered by Saddam, with US as instigator and silent onlooker are dead. Do not expect that their families and friends should love the Americans. I have full understanding of that some people will try to take a potshot on Americans, when they finally comes in the shooting range. Personally, I am against violent revenge or any other killings, but that does not mean that I do not understand the motives. Hakan At 03:04 PM 7/18/2003 +, you wrote: So is there no obligation to keep bad people from doing bad things? If you walked past an alley and someone was being beaten would you: 1) keep on walking, or 2) go get a commitee together to decide if the person doing the beating should be stopped, or 3) just go in and stop the beating, or 4) look for an inspector to determine whether there was actual beating occuring or not before deciding what to do? If OJ simpson were out Knife shopping, wouldn't you keep an eye on him, and try to intervene before he decided to off his latest girlfriend? Exactly what lie was told? http://www.townhall.com/columnists/monacharen/mc20030718.shtml This whole lie is a political sham to give the Democrats a snowballs chance in hades of winning the presidency next year. My biggest fear is that Bush will go so far to the left (perscription drugs, willy nilly spending, etc..) that he'll lose his base (and the election), just like his daddy did in '92. http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jonahgoldberg/jg20030718.shtml For all the whining about Bush, just what kind of response do you suppose Big Al would have had to september '01? Algore's lies are well documented. http://connect.247media.ads.link4ads.com/serv/1/National_Review_Online/National_Review_Online/National_Review_Online_ROS/40265;type=t;uniq=2003.07.18.10.42.40 To be fair, I looked for Bushes lies too, and apparently his opposition isn't too well organized. The best
[biofuel] Re: caches of filtered WVO - was Re: Digest Number 1657
What happened to a discussion list focused on caches of filtered WVO? That's what I joined this list for, but I'm ready to leave because I have to read through so many post titles (never mind the lengthy posts themselves), to find something on topic. Jerry Hello Jerry You complain about having to read through so many post titles but you send a message titled Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1657? That doesn't help a lot, and it also makes the archives much more difficult to use. If you're replying to a Digest, please give it a relevant subject heading. Anyway, it averages about 20 messages a day, I don't think it can be such a huge strain to scan through 20 subject headings a day, especially as you get the digest and it's all there for you right at the top in a numbered list. I don't know where you might find a discussion list focused on caches of filtered WVO. Caches of filtered WVO? I can't even figure out what that means. This is a biofuels discussion list, it's focused on that. Biofuels is a very wide-ranging subject and there are members here from more than a hundred countries, what's on-topic or not is a matter of widely varying opinion. In other words it's all on-topic, it depends who you are. Sometimes indeed it does go right off-topic, but it never goes too far, and it's been found many times that what might appear at first to be digressions end up yielding on-topic information that would not otherwise have arisen. As for *your* particular topic, well, you've been here for more than a year and this is your first post. If you want information why don't you ask? If you want a discussion on a topic that interests you, start one. Best Keith Addison List owner Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Natural Vitamins for Good Prostate Male Health. $28.97 http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2865lp=prosta2.html http://us.click.yahoo.com/qJIe0D/89VGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: If youre pro war, read this!!!!!
Hello Bryan Keith, You're arguing the same issue from a different perspective. I'm not arguing with you, just adding the different perspective. I agree with you, mostly. I did want to differentiate the bit about six billion though. My point was that the western powers want to keep the status quo in Africa. Any action on their part to ameliorate the physical or economic suffering of the third world is simply a charade. Very largely, yes. Historically western governments have used a variety of indirect methods for exploitation and control. From smallpox blankets to AIDS and from fire water to opium, the details may be different but the results are the same. The results are often a lot worse these days, now that it's not only governments but corporations, aided and abetted by the governments they own, or think they own, or behave as if they own. Bit simplistic this, but it's true anyway: colonial governments were there for extraction and exploitation, but there was also some idea of maintenance of the resources. Not any more. Extract to death and abandon, all too often. I assert that the situation in Africa will not change as long as western nations maintain their ascendancy. Make it industrialized nations, then you can include Japan. And some bad damage is being done in Africa by Southeast Asian and China-backed logging companies, for instance, severe damage to communities as well as to forests. But yes, I agree, basically, though there are other factors that could force them to change their behaviour. But don't hold your breath! Best Keith -BRAH -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 2:00 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: If youre pro war, read this! Not to confuse two separate issues, but it just so happens that Liberia has natural resources. It has gold, diamonds, and a rare type of silicon used in cellular phones, so I don't think our motives for going to the Dark Continent are quite as pure as the administration would have us believe. The fifteen billion earmarked for African AIDS is not a lot of money compared to what we're currently spending elsewhere. Most likely, that money will go right back to western companies providing humanitarian services, drugs, food, medical equipment, etc. De-population of Africa is seen as a good thing by western leaders. It gives us easier access to natural resources, and in environmental parlance reduces the burden on the biosphere. While the population of industrialized nations is steadily falling, the average birth rate in Africa is on average 3 times higher. AIDS and civil unrest are good ways to keep these irresponsible breeders in check. After all, our dear mother earth has enough trouble supporting the more than six billion people already living. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that the money that Dubya spends in Africa will have a less than marginal effect on the AIDS epidemic. In marked contrast, the inevitable U.S. military presence established (in Liberia perhaps) to Provide Security for humanitarian aid workers, will work wonderfully. With global hegemony first and foremost in the minds of American leaders and planners, African involvement is just a matter of opportunity. -BRAH Bryan, high birthrates are absolutely a symptom of poverty. The best (only?) way to reduce high birthrates is to reduce poverty; women's empowerment and education are fundamental aspects of poverty reduction, and also immediately result in lower birthrates. The Bushies' anti-family planning stance worldwide and general economic policies are devastating in their effects on poor communities, and especially on women. See, among others (embarrassment of riches here, so to speak): http://us.oneworld.net/article/view/62393/1/ War on Poverty? Nice Words, But... This... ... After all, our dear mother earth has enough trouble supporting the more than six billion people already living. ... is a myth, an apologia widely held in (guess) the rich countries with the HUGE eco-footprints. There's plenty of room for everyone EXCEPT the rich and greedy, probably the top (? - I'd say bottom) 1% at the most. According to the United Nations Development Programme, the richest 1% of the world's population receives as much income as the poorest 57%. The world's richest fifth consumes 86% of all goods and services while the poorest fifth consumes just 1.3%. The richest fifth consumes 45% of all meat and fish, 58% of all energy used, and 84% of all toilet paper, has 74% of all telephone lines, and owns 87% of all vehicles. The world's 225 richest individuals, of whom 60 are American with total assets of $311 billion, have a combined wealth of over $1 trillion - equal to the annual income of the poorest 47% of the entire world's population. (Source: NYTimes, 9/26/98, Week in Review section.) This is NOT the way to decrease
Re: [biofuel] dewatering WVO
I read the information on dewatering the WVO, but when I was heating the oil I noticed that when it was taken off the heat and poured off, that there was water settled on the bottom. Can this be a way to dewater more quickly? Just heat the oil to 100 deg. C and then pour the oil off the top? Will water remain suspended in the oil? Brent Removing the water http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html#water Here's another way, from Aleks Kac -- it uses less energy and doesn't risk forming more Free Fatty Acids by overheating. Heat the oil to 60 deg C (140 deg F), maintain the temperature for 15 minutes and then pour the oil into a settling tank. Let it settle for at least 24 hours. Make sure you never empty the settling vessel more than 90%. - From Biodiesel from waste oil http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo If you heat oil with water in it, stir it or use indirect heat: with direct heat the oil nearest the flame will start popping almost immediately. That can be dangerous: water falling out and collecting at the bottom can get superheated and explode, splattering hot oil everywhere. It usually starts bubbling at around 50-55 deg C, at that temperature the water starts to come out of solution. So keeping it at 60 deg C or a bit higher for a while should precipitate all the water, which settles to the bottom, as you say. No need to heat to 100 deg C, wastes energy, unless you then boil off all the water and start the biodiesel process on the way down when it's cooled to processing temp, 55 deg C or whatever, which saves re-heating the oil for processing. Hard to say which is better - if you're using the acid-base process with a much lower-temp first stage, heating to 100 would be a waste of energy. On the other hand some people find heating to 60 and settling doesn't work for them, for some reason. Try both and see what's best for you. What's really best is to try to find a source of high-quality WVO that doesn't contain any water: low-titration oil is usually water-free, and it also means less catalyst, higher yield, and probably quicker washing with less water. We now have two good sources of good oil, constant supply, as much as we want, always about the same, titration less than 1ml, no water. Nice. The stuff we were working with in Hong Kong and Tokyo titrated at 7ml at least, and as high as 10.6ml, yuk, and LOTS of water. But we learnt a lot getting it so we got good production out of that muck. Learnt a lot about which types of restaurants not to eat at too. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge refill kit orders to US Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: If youre pro war, read this!!!!!
Eric, Let us drop it all together, I was upset when I saw a hearing of one of the weapon experts in UK. All to try to get a leakage in the UK apparatus. A typical mild spoken scientist, with a lot of knowledge. I will not be surprised if they find it against the law about journalists and naming sources. This morning they found his body. Hakan At 08:44 PM 7/18/2003 +, you wrote: Where do I say that all Americans lie? The inspectors were not given ready access, nor were they given full ability to interview key personel freely. So what kind of Government would you want Iraq to have? Are you implying that all types of Democracy are evil? What makes it the right American Democracy I'm not sure how I'm being Pessimistic. I believe that the leadership of the US and British government did and is doing the morally correct thing. I'm not sure they spoke the right reasons for doing it, but I believe that we are doing the morally correct thing, and that Iraq will be a better country when we leave it than it was when we arrived. In some ways, I believe it already is. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree after your reply. This is WY off topic from my original post, which addressed states rights and individual rights within the US. We aren't going to resolve this, and we're cluttering the archives with off topic stuff. If you want to take this to another forum, however, I'll go along. Just let me know where we're going. Eric --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eric, I know that US is a very dangerous place to live in and if you called the police, you would probably be arrested for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. What are you telling me, that all Americans lie? I agree that it is easier to spot the few true things, said by the Bush administration, than following all the lies. However, on occasions you can even catch Bush. Like the latest (that I know of), THE PRESIDENT: The larger point is, and the fundamental question is, did Saddam Hussein have a weapons program? And the answer is, absolutely. And we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in. And, therefore, after a reasonable request, we decided to remove him from power, along with other nations, so as to make sure he was not a threat to the United States and our friends and allies in the region. I firmly believe the decisions we made will make America more secure and the world more peaceful. I maybe have to inform you that the inspectors was allowed in and also full access. Search the motives and I will repeat what I said to start with, Eric, Do not worry, if US can get the right American democracy government in place. US have secured close to its 25% need of the worlds oil resources and the money was well spent. In that case you can definitely say that US did the right thing for US. Who cares about the Iraqis? They have the wrong religion and do not appreciate the American culture anyway. The world is a better place for American actions, after Iraq. It is so afraid of Americans, that it is a petty that US cannot benefit from the extra Biogas production and use it for solving the Natural gas problem. You are too pessimistic, try to look at it from the bright side. That is what I suggested. Even if the natural gas problem remains. The Iraqis that was betrayed and murdered by Saddam, with US as instigator and silent onlooker are dead. Do not expect that their families and friends should love the Americans. I have full understanding of that some people will try to take a potshot on Americans, when they finally comes in the shooting range. Personally, I am against violent revenge or any other killings, but that does not mean that I do not understand the motives. Hakan At 03:04 PM 7/18/2003 +, you wrote: So is there no obligation to keep bad people from doing bad things? If you walked past an alley and someone was being beaten would you: 1) keep on walking, or 2) go get a commitee together to decide if the person doing the beating should be stopped, or 3) just go in and stop the beating, or 4) look for an inspector to determine whether there was actual beating occuring or not before deciding what to do? If OJ simpson were out Knife shopping, wouldn't you keep an eye on him, and try to intervene before he decided to off his latest girlfriend? Exactly what lie was told? http://www.townhall.com/columnists/monacharen/mc20030718.shtml This whole lie is a political sham to give the Democrats a snowballs chance in hades of winning the presidency next year. My biggest fear is that Bush will go so far to the left (perscription drugs, willy nilly spending, etc..) that he'll lose his base (and the election), just like his daddy did in '92.
