Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: even more shady quality control in commercial biodiesel
I agree with your observations about an absent enforcement mechanism for BD industry in the US. But I think that industry is heading that way. At the BD Research Brainstorming Workshop this past Jan., NBB discussed their Biodiesel Quality Program, BQ-9000, to be administered by the Accreditation Board of NBB. Accreditation is the right first step toward accountability and then for enforcement of ASTM standards. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Building a biodiesel fuel batch processor.
Hi, The volume of the wash tank depends on the type of washing you'll do. For bubblewashing I just use the same size tank as my processor. Her's why: in the processor I leave some air space above the liquid, (I make 42 gal batches in a 55 gal drum) and once the glycerine is retracted I have the same 42 gals of product to wash. I use less water than I used to- 1/4 the amountI guess- and it works fine. I can always change the water more times if necessary. Anyway if you do a bulk wash (ie gently mix water in, not bubblewashing) you may want a bigger tank, or you may not- it depends on what you have in mind. Mist washers may need something different, but I don' tknow. 200 gal is a huge processor for home purposes. It takes a long time to heat and or dewater that much oil... I think you'll probably want more than a gun heater for this... Reaction chemicsls (methanol and lye): You can use stainless, HDPE plastic, or mild steel I believe. Mine is HDPE, and Ive done it in mild steel drums as well. Good luck! mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, adstreeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Sirs,I am in the process of building a biodiesel fuel processor. The material chosen for my processor is 304 alloy stainless steel. The cooking tank will be large enough to process batches of aprox. 200 gallons. With that in mind should the wash tank be two or three times larger than the cooking tank,and should I have a reaction or chemical mixing tank also made of stainless steel to mix the reaction chemicles before they are added to the used vegetable oil? Also I planed to use the gun from an oil furnace to boil off any water from the oil,if need be while in the cooking tank.I would appreciate any answers to these questions by anyone who has already been making their own biodiesel fuel.Thanks!!! Duff Streeter / email address is /[EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: solar colector
Strange as it may sound I found a nuclear power plant for sale online once .. assemble required, all that was missing was the fuel. David Wood girl_mark_fire wrote: yeah, it's right there on my list right after the nuclear reactor Im looking for. mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark, If you can get your hands on a used trough solar collector (the kind used professionally to heat water to steam) that might be the best bet. Anyone have any experience with this, or know of a salvage place? James Slayden On Wed, 21 May 2003, girl_mark_fire wrote: Spent part of the morning out at our nice new big 'experimental' site (Team Canola, a not-very-official 'coop' of sorts), installed our first shiny new over- feature-ified 110 gallon processor, Yay! anyway it was blazing hot out there, just a few miles inland and it's about 10 degrees hotter than where I live. Made me think about getting more serious about the solar batch collector bit to at least take advantage of this - there were certainly a lot of BTU's diffusely floating down all over the place threatening me with skin cancer, and here I was slathered with sunscreen and installing a few kilowatts of electric heating (temporary). Batch solar box heater is a probably a bit undersized for what we have in mind, though. The start of the eventual real solar heated biodiesel project (ie with panel collectors, not the batch solar oven type heater) is building the backup gas heated system (we don't have a roof at this place so the backup heat comes before the roof and the panels). We'll probably have to 'bite the bullet' very soon and buy a cheap propane domestic water heater (I am cursed with the fact that I work at three biodiesel-making sites and at none of them can I run a natural gas line, yet every free heater I run across here is natural gas). I want to use the propane heater (or two?) to heat water as a heat exchange medium, then run that water into the manifold heat exchanger system I'd described, into the various tanks. (heat is mostly going for the processors of course, we'll have two processors since we're into ... you guessed it, acid- base, and the theory is that we'll eventually be doing two batches every time we go out there- one batch of acid and one batch of base, to compensate for the fact that commuting to make fuel is complicated and very simple processors are nearly free.. in fact we got an awesome donation of a stirred stainless steel 150-200 gallon tank, already containing a motor and agitation paddles installed, just needs insulation and heating to make big old batches). So I'm curious about steam and have a very basic question about it, in the application that Ken describes: Why is steam used for this application rather than hot water like I'm planning? is it because one can heat steam much hotter? thanks, mark -- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 0. I'd like to plumb my workshop with steam lines the way some shops are plumbed with compressed air. Then you could have some immersion coils and a few steam-jacketed kettles. Just hook up to the closest steam valve. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Click Here! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] highway speed findings
A major part of accidents in US is exactly the habit to pass in left lane, forbidden in Europe and I have been told in US also. Do you mean the right lane? In the US, on the highway, the left lane is for passing, not the right lane. In some areas this is the law, and you can be ticketed for passing on the right, and in some areas it is not really ticketed, but is still the convention. Some folks think it applies to middle-speed type streets, and they get all up-in-arms if you are driving in the left lane of a 40 or 50 mph street without going at passing speed, but the same conventions or laws I think do not necessarily apply to those situations. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] highway speed findings
Of course, I mean the right lane. Being one-eyed at the moment, seems to affect my orientation. Almost everywhere that I have been driving in US, it is a habit to do it. 20 years ago, in all 35 to 40 states that I was traveling in. It might have changed, but not in any of the 5-6 that I visited the last 5 years. Hakan At 08:21 AM 6/6/2003 -0700, you wrote: A major part of accidents in US is exactly the habit to pass in left lane, forbidden in Europe and I have been told in US also. Do you mean the right lane? In the US, on the highway, the left lane is for passing, not the right lane. In some areas this is the law, and you can be ticketed for passing on the right, and in some areas it is not really ticketed, but is still the convention. Some folks think it applies to middle-speed type streets, and they get all up-in-arms if you are driving in the left lane of a 40 or 50 mph street without going at passing speed, but the same conventions or laws I think do not necessarily apply to those situations. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: highway speed findings
That's fine, what is a slower driver suppose to do, when he/she is trying to get to the right, and he/she can not because everyone and their uncle are passing on the left? Greg H. - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 15:19 Subject: [biofuel] Re: highway speed findings Second, the lack of enforcement of drivers going too slowly is related to the lack of consistency in passing on the left. Slower drivers should keep right. Those going outrageously slowly should be ticketed regardless of lane, but in any case those going somewhat slowly need to do so to the right. This is stated somewhat in the rules or regs I think, and I think it's a logical-enough rule-of-thumb such that I put a copy of the slower-drivers-keep-right sign on the start-page of my website four years ago and haven't taken it down. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: highway speed findings
I don't know if there's a law against passing on the right in California. I do know that if there is, it's not enforced, and I pass on the right once in awhile, and think nothing of it. In other states, I do think there are laws against this and in some cases they are enforced, but I don't know for certain. There are several issues here, and a Southern CAlifornia Highway is certainly not the Autobahn. One issue is that staying in one's lane is important. If, for a time, a lane to the right seems to go faster in traffic, everyone moving over to the left, just to pass properly, would be wrong. Second, the lack of enforcement of drivers going too slowly is related to the lack of consistency in passing on the left. Slower drivers should keep right. Those going outrageously slowly should be ticketed regardless of lane, but in any case those going somewhat slowly need to do so to the right. This is stated somewhat in the rules or regs I think, and I think it's a logical-enough rule-of-thumb such that I put a copy of the slower-drivers-keep-right sign on the start-page of my website four years ago and haven't taken it down. I drove with a friend who was generally safety-minded and experienced and had stayed out of accidents for many years. But she tended to get in the left hand lanes and not pay much attention to those trying to pass her. She figured I guess if she wasn't changing lanes too often, she was good. I told her this was wrong, that it didn't matter if she was doing the legal limit or a little above, that the left lane as a generalization was for passing and that while there are times when it's ok to sort of hang out there, generally one needs to keep right. One does not have the right to enforce the speed limit by hanging out there and blocking traffic. I don't think she'd given much thought to any of this, and it was I who had to point out to her why she'd occassionally see folks flashing their brights at her from behind. Anyway, there's only so far I'm willing to go, to avoid passing on the right, when the cops do not enforce that slower drivers should keep right. At some point you give up, stay in your lane, and pass a few cars until you get left. I do think I could probably try a bit harder, and it does bother me when folks pass me on the right when it's not really necessary, so I'll keep an eye out for whether I can improve this. Lastly, in addition to the cops not enforcing the limit, at the stated limit (but at a higher rate) and not enforcing that slower drivers are a hazard sometimes, I've also seen a fair amount of tail-gating and failure-to-signal. I think failure-to-signal can be a factor in getting a ticket, so I won't say it's entirely unenforced, but I sure see it plenty. Both tailgaters and those who fail to signal are slime, in my book. MM Of course, I mean the right lane. Being one-eyed at the moment, seems to affect my orientation. Almost everywhere that I have been driving in US, it is a habit to do it. 20 years ago, in all 35 to 40 states that I was traveling in. It might have changed, but not in any of the 5-6 that I visited the last 5 years. Hakan At 08:21 AM 6/6/2003 -0700, you wrote: A major part of accidents in US is exactly the habit to pass in left lane, forbidden in Europe and I have been told in US also. Do you mean the right lane? In the US, on the highway, the left lane is for passing, not the right lane. In some areas this is the law, and you can be ticketed for passing on the right, and in some areas it is not really ticketed, but is still the convention. Some folks think it applies to middle-speed type streets, and they get all up-in-arms if you are driving in the left lane of a 40 or 50 mph street without going at passing speed, but the same conventions or laws I think do not necessarily apply to those situations. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: highway speed findings
MM, I have an European license that covers everything on wheels and close to 3,000,000 km experience to go with it. I have been driving in around 50 countries, including US and most of the states. What you are saying makes me scared and I know when I feel scared in traffic. Over the years I had some rules that served me well, - Assume that all my fellows in the traffic are idiots who do not care about neither rules or their own lives. Be afraid of what they are going to do next, drive with phantasy. - Do not get close to idiots, I cannot trust them. - The least harm an idiot can do is if he/she is behind me. - If the idiot is in front/side of me, keep space enough for unexpected events. - Whatever I do in traffic, do not let idiots upset me. I am a safety hazard if I do. - If he/she is not sitting behind a steering wheel, he/she is probably a nice person and no idiot at all. Hakan At 02:19 PM 6/6/2003 -0700, you wrote: I don't know if there's a law against passing on the right in California. I do know that if there is, it's not enforced, and I pass on the right once in awhile, and think nothing of it. In other states, I do think there are laws against this and in some cases they are enforced, but I don't know for certain. There are several issues here, and a Southern CAlifornia Highway is certainly not the Autobahn. One issue is that staying in one's lane is important. If, for a time, a lane to the right seems to go faster in traffic, everyone moving over to the left, just to pass properly, would be wrong. Second, the lack of enforcement of drivers going too slowly is related to the lack of consistency in passing on the left. Slower drivers should keep right. Those going outrageously slowly should be ticketed regardless of lane, but in any case those going somewhat slowly need to do so to the right. This is stated somewhat in the rules or regs I think, and I think it's a logical-enough rule-of-thumb such that I put a copy of the slower-drivers-keep-right sign on the start-page of my website four years ago and haven't taken it down. I drove with a friend who was generally safety-minded and experienced and had stayed out of accidents for many years. But she tended to get in the left hand lanes and not pay much attention to those trying to pass her. She figured I guess if she wasn't changing lanes too often, she was good. I told her this was wrong, that it didn't matter if she was doing the legal limit or a little above, that the left lane as a generalization was for passing and that while there are times when it's ok to sort of hang out there, generally one needs to keep right. One does not have the right to enforce the speed limit by hanging out there and blocking traffic. I don't think she'd given much thought to any of this, and it was I who had to point out to her why she'd occassionally see folks flashing their brights at her from behind. Anyway, there's only so far I'm willing to go, to avoid passing on the right, when the cops do not enforce that slower drivers should keep right. At some point you give up, stay in your lane, and pass a few cars until you get left. I do think I could probably try a bit harder, and it does bother me when folks pass me on the right when it's not really necessary, so I'll keep an eye out for whether I can improve this. Lastly, in addition to the cops not enforcing the limit, at the stated limit (but at a higher rate) and not enforcing that slower drivers are a hazard sometimes, I've also seen a fair amount of tail-gating and failure-to-signal. I think failure-to-signal can be a factor in getting a ticket, so I won't say it's entirely unenforced, but I sure see it plenty. Both tailgaters and those who fail to signal are slime, in my book. MM Of course, I mean the right lane. Being one-eyed at the moment, seems to affect my orientation. Almost everywhere that I have been driving in US, it is a habit to do it. 20 years ago, in all 35 to 40 states that I was traveling in. It might have changed, but not in any of the 5-6 that I visited the last 5 years. Hakan At 08:21 AM 6/6/2003 -0700, you wrote: A major part of accidents in US is exactly the habit to pass in left lane, forbidden in Europe and I have been told in US also. Do you mean the right lane? In the US, on the highway, the left lane is for passing, not the right lane. In some areas this is the law, and you can be ticketed for passing on the right, and in some areas it is not really ticketed, but is still the convention. Some folks think it applies to middle-speed type streets, and they get all up-in-arms if you are driving in the left lane of a 40 or 50 mph street without going at passing speed, but the same conventions or laws I think do not necessarily apply to those situations. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to
Re: [biofuel] Re: highway speed findings
- Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 17:33 Subject: [biofuel] Re: highway speed findings You're talking about a situation that many of us have been in before, to one extent or another. It's hard for me to say if the cop was warranted in ticketing your wife without knowing all the details. Was she doing the limit the whole time or did she speed up only when she started to feel that folks were impatient behind her? The entire time. Usually when a cop is spotted around a group of drivers, most of that group will slow down to the limit and one would not be ticketed for doing the limit. At other times, I reckon a cop will get on the tail of a driver whose driving he doesn't like, and sometimes will even ticket them for any old thing, if he or she has a basic problem with their driving. Around here, most people are so paranoid, about cops, that if the cop was doing 30 in a 35 zone, most of the people will slow down and stay behind him, in both lanes. A friend of mine was ticketed when he pulled over, the cop told him to pull further down the road, he did and they ticketed him for not putting his seat belt back on for the second part, after he was all flustered. But I wasn't unhappy he was ticketed he's a lead-footed driver who often fails to signal. I have almost been in to many accadents to count because of this, or because they signal and start pulling over with out checking to see if the lane is clear. A disporportionate number of them with Cali. lisence plates. It is certainly an occassional problem that one will be trying to do the right thing (get right, so that faster drivers can pass on the left) when the flow of heavy traffic to one's right will prevent this. When I have been in that circumstance, I signal so as to make sure that those behind me understand that I understand the concept that I am to get to the right, I wait until there is a break in those passing me, and then I move right. Same here, but, there have been times when I have had to very slowly start pulling over, before to long someone realizes I actualy want to pull over and slow down and let me in. I don't like doing it, but, somtimes it's the only way to get over, because alot of them just ether just don't care, or they are not paying attention to things like turn signals. Greg H. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] U.S.: 5 billion gallon 2012 ethanol mandate part of energy bill debate
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/breaking_news/6026313.htm http://www.forbes.com/business/energy/newswire/2003/06/06/rtr993482.html Interesting article detailing opposition from California: http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/news/6027399.htm Not only on political and pricing grounds, but also on Pimentel-type grounds. At present the justification for ethanol use in California is clean air (it is used as an oxygenate). How ironic that the Federal Government and the automakers have fought BEVs, which could also do so much to help clean the air. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: highway speed findings
Some of the folks may be less idiotic outside of a car, as you say, but I am often amazed at how some of them are good drivers when I know that some of them would not be welcome around me under other circumstances. In any event, I am open to discussing more about how to drive safely, because it's the most dangerous thing most of us do in our normal daily lives. I only started driving about 8 years ago, as I had previously taken public transportation, and a healthy fear of things is, as you suggest, a way to stay out of trouble as one continues to go along and improve one's own driving. We are all prone to make an occassional mistake. Last year I was working in a factory and we had a lot of safety discussions. The reason was that our safety record was not good and the insurance company demanded an improvement in order for us to get our insurance down. Management was going to have to leave the country after more than a decade of U.S.-based manufacturing, because of the cost of insurance. Studies had shown that frequent discussion of the safety issues, and open-ness to raising of concerns, (together with acting upon good ideas and suggestions) could result in real improvement of a safety record. We did improve our safety. Sometimes the system can work the way it's supposed-to. Maybe the same lesson could apply to driving and its dangers. On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 23:49:23 +0200, you wrote: MM, I have an European license that covers everything on wheels and close to 3,000,000 km experience to go with it. I have been driving in around 50 countries, including US and most of the states. What you are saying makes me scared and I know when I feel scared in traffic. Over the years I had some rules that served me well, - Assume that all my fellows in the traffic are idiots who do not care about neither rules or their own lives. Be afraid of what they are going to do next, drive with phantasy. - Do not get close to idiots, I cannot trust them. - The least harm an idiot can do is if he/she is behind me. - If the idiot is in front/side of me, keep space enough for unexpected events. - Whatever I do in traffic, do not let idiots upset me. I am a safety hazard if I do. - If he/she is not sitting behind a steering wheel, he/she is probably a nice person and no idiot at all. Hakan At 02:19 PM 6/6/2003 -0700, you wrote: I don't know if there's a law against passing on the right in California. I do know that if there is, it's not enforced, and I pass on the right once in awhile, and think nothing of it. In other states, I do think there are laws against this and in some cases they are enforced, but I don't know for certain. There are several issues here, and a Southern CAlifornia Highway is certainly not the Autobahn. One issue is that staying in one's lane is important. If, for a time, a lane to the right seems to go faster in traffic, everyone moving over to the left, just to pass properly, would be wrong. Second, the lack of enforcement of drivers going too slowly is related to the lack of consistency in passing on the left. Slower drivers should keep right. Those going outrageously slowly should be ticketed regardless of lane, but in any case those going somewhat slowly need to do so to the right. This is stated somewhat in the rules or regs I think, and I think it's a logical-enough rule-of-thumb such that I put a copy of the slower-drivers-keep-right sign on the start-page of my website four years ago and haven't taken it down. I drove with a friend who was generally safety-minded and experienced and had stayed out of accidents for many years. But she tended to get in the left hand lanes and not pay much attention to those trying to pass her. She figured I guess if she wasn't changing lanes too often, she was good. I told her this was wrong, that it didn't matter if she was doing the legal limit or a little above, that the left lane as a generalization was for passing and that while there are times when it's ok to sort of hang out there, generally one needs to keep right. One does not have the right to enforce the speed limit by hanging out there and blocking traffic. I don't think she'd given much thought to any of this, and it was I who had to point out to her why she'd occassionally see folks flashing their brights at her from behind. Anyway, there's only so far I'm willing to go, to avoid passing on the right, when the cops do not enforce that slower drivers should keep right. At some point you give up, stay in your lane, and pass a few cars until you get left. I do think I could probably try a bit harder, and it does bother me when folks pass me on the right when it's not really necessary, so I'll keep an eye out for whether I can improve this. Lastly, in addition to the cops not enforcing the limit, at the stated limit (but at a higher rate) and not enforcing that slower drivers are a hazard sometimes, I've also seen a fair amount of tail-gating and failure-to-signal. I
[biofuel] Re: highway speed findings
You're talking about a situation that many of us have been in before, to one extent or another. It's hard for me to say if the cop was warranted in ticketing your wife without knowing all the details. Was she doing the limit the whole time or did she speed up only when she started to feel that folks were impatient behind her? Usually when a cop is spotted around a group of drivers, most of that group will slow down to the limit and one would not be ticketed for doing the limit. At other times, I reckon a cop will get on the tail of a driver whose driving he doesn't like, and sometimes will even ticket them for any old thing, if he or she has a basic problem with their driving. A friend of mine was ticketed when he pulled over, the cop told him to pull further down the road, he did and they ticketed him for not putting his seat belt back on for the second part, after he was all flustered. But I wasn't unhappy he was ticketed he's a lead-footed driver who often fails to signal. It is certainly an occassional problem that one will be trying to do the right thing (get right, so that faster drivers can pass on the left) when the flow of heavy traffic to one's right will prevent this. When I have been in that circumstance, I signal so as to make sure that those behind me understand that I understand the concept that I am to get to the right, I wait until there is a break in those passing me, and then I move right. Most importantly, I try not to put myself in that position. If the traffic is heavy enough such that changing lanes would be that problematic, I would try not to move to the passing lane until I was quite confident that the pace established there is one I wished to live with. This is not to say that it's a solved issue for me. Quite often when I pass through LA, it's a recurring problem because I'm not used to their problematically-heavy high-speed traffic and while normally I may be ok with doing a 70-75 mph thing in the left lane, there are times when I don't want to do this in LA. Aside from the safety issue, which is pre-eminent, it's a lot harder for me to spot a cop in heavy traffic, while driving safely, with lots of things going on. Also, I don't know the area that well. I don't think one can drive as safely in an area one knows less well. I find myself getting into trouble though because I'd *forget* all this until I found myself doing 70 mph in heavy traffic on the far left, and not wanting to quite keep up. Sometimes you just want to hustle, sometimes the slow traffic on the right will frustrate, so you decide to go out to the left, etc. Then I'd have to go through the whole process of getting to the right again, all the while feeling that certain slight unsafe pressure to go faster. This happens less and less though, for me. I just learn to not get out that far, if I don't want to do that rate of speed, and I accept that sometimes I will get there a little slower than I want, by going in the middle lanes. I still don't feel safe driving in LA (it's just too crowded, at high-speed) but I'm getting a little better. MM On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:58:19 -0600, you wrote: That's fine, what is a slower driver suppose to do, when he/she is trying to get to the right, and he/she can not because everyone and their uncle are passing on the left? Greg H. Second, the lack of enforcement of drivers going too slowly is related to the lack of consistency in passing on the left. Slower drivers should keep right. Those going outrageously slowly should be ticketed regardless of lane, but in any case those going somewhat slowly need to do so to the right. This is stated somewhat in the rules or regs I think, and I think it's a logical-enough rule-of-thumb such that I put a copy of the slower-drivers-keep-right sign on the start-page of my website four years ago and haven't taken it down. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: highway speed findings
It's a common practice in Oklahoma for the state troopers to ride the left lane at 50 mph or so and everyone passes them on the right. I have seen the same in some parts of Texas. But then again there's the local 85 year old farmer that thinks he owns the road at 25 MPH and of course you can't get around him because it is a no passing zone..oh, welllife goes on barry - Original Message - From: murdoch To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 4:19 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: highway speed findings I don't know if there's a law against passing on the right in California. I do know that if there is, it's not enforced, and I pass on the right once in awhile, and think nothing of it. In other states, I do think there are laws against this and in some cases they are enforced, but I don't know for certain. There are several issues here, and a Southern CAlifornia Highway is certainly not the Autobahn. One issue is that staying in one's lane is important. If, for a time, a lane to the right seems to go faster in traffic, everyone moving over to the left, just to pass properly, would be wrong. Second, the lack of enforcement of drivers going too slowly is related to the lack of consistency in passing on the left. Slower drivers should keep right. Those going outrageously slowly should be ticketed regardless of lane, but in any case those going somewhat slowly need to do so to the right. This is stated somewhat in the rules or regs I think, and I think it's a logical-enough rule-of-thumb such that I put a copy of the slower-drivers-keep-right sign on the start-page of my website four years ago and haven't taken it down. I drove with a friend who was generally safety-minded and experienced and had stayed out of accidents for many years. But she tended to get in the left hand lanes and not pay much attention to those trying to pass her. She figured I guess if she wasn't changing lanes too often, she was good. I told her this was wrong, that it didn't matter if she was doing the legal limit or a little above, that the left lane as a generalization was for passing and that while there are times when it's ok to sort of hang out there, generally one needs to keep right. One does not have the right to enforce the speed limit by hanging out there and blocking traffic. I don't think she'd given much thought to any of this, and it was I who had to point out to her why she'd occassionally see folks flashing their brights at her from behind. Anyway, there's only so far I'm willing to go, to avoid passing on the right, when the cops do not enforce that slower drivers should keep right. At some point you give up, stay in your lane, and pass a few cars until you get left. I do think I could probably try a bit harder, and it does bother me when folks pass me on the right when it's not really necessary, so I'll keep an eye out for whether I can improve this. Lastly, in addition to the cops not enforcing the limit, at the stated limit (but at a higher rate) and not enforcing that slower drivers are a hazard sometimes, I've also seen a fair amount of tail-gating and failure-to-signal. I think failure-to-signal can be a factor in getting a ticket, so I won't say it's entirely unenforced, but I sure see it plenty. Both tailgaters and those who fail to signal are slime, in my book. MM Of course, I mean the right lane. Being one-eyed at the moment, seems to affect my orientation. Almost everywhere that I have been driving in US, it is a habit to do it. 20 years ago, in all 35 to 40 states that I was traveling in. It might have changed, but not in any of the 5-6 that I visited the last 5 years. Hakan At 08:21 AM 6/6/2003 -0700, you wrote: A major part of accidents in US is exactly the habit to pass in left lane, forbidden in Europe and I have been told in US also. Do you mean the right lane? In the US, on the highway, the left lane is for passing, not the right lane. In some areas this is the law, and you can be ticketed for passing on the right, and in some areas it is not really ticketed, but is still the convention. Some folks think it applies to middle-speed type streets, and they get all up-in-arms if you are driving in the left lane of a 40 or 50 mph street without going at passing speed, but the same conventions or laws I think do not necessarily apply to those situations. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
Re: [biofuel] Re: highway speed findings
Last year I was working in a factory and we had a lot of safety discussions. The reason was that our safety record was not good and the insurance company demanded an improvement in order for us to get our insurance down. Management was going to have to leave the country after more than a decade of U.S.-based manufacturing, because of the cost of insurance. Studies had shown that frequent discussion of the safety issues, and open-ness to raising of concerns, (together with acting upon good ideas and suggestions) could result in real improvement of a safety record. We did improve our safety. Sometimes the system can work the way it's supposed-to. Maybe the same lesson could apply to driving and its dangers. On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 23:49:23 +0200, you wrote: MM, Dont want to get involved in Driving issues, but Australia has a good system for Occupation Health Safety (OHS). We have a system basically of a committee with reps from the employees, Management appointees. The mgmy people are there to get the problems sorted if simple (as most are) otherwise to liase with upper mgmt. Employees refer questions/concerns to reps who discuss at meetings (every 4w? or as necessary) then the situation is resolved by concensus. It works very well as long as the concensus is remembered. (There is training programs for reps etc - I can find details if ou want more info.) This system could work well in Bd groups also, perhaps, for safety issues. regards Doug Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: highway speed findings
murdoch wrote: I find myself getting into trouble though because I'd *forget* all this until I found myself doing 70 mph in heavy traffic on the far left, and not wanting to quite keep up. Sometimes you just want to hustle, sometimes the slow traffic on the right will frustrate, so you decide to go out to the left, etc. Then I'd have to go through the whole process of getting to the right again, all the while feeling that certain slight unsafe pressure to go faster. This happens less and less though, for me. I just learn to not get out that far, if I don't want to do that rate of speed, and I accept that sometimes I will get there a little slower than I want, by going in the middle lanes. I still don't feel safe driving in LA (it's just too crowded, at high-speed) but I'm getting a little better. I grew up in Los Angeles and learned how to drive there. I used to attend a technical school down by the airport, and I well remember participating in the Santa Monica Express--where everyone is driving nearly bumper to bumper at speeds exceeding 60 mph. (In that situation, drivers have to watch the brake lights of the car that's in front of the car in front of you!). On my recent trip to California, I had to get back into that kind of mentality. Honestly though, drivers in Southern California are a LOT more considerate and intelligent about driving than most of the drivers up here in British Columbia! (Here, it seems, nobody yields to anyone needing to merge, and everyone seems to suffer from an I need to get ahead of you disease!) My loving wife generally drives faster than I do, but she won't drive in Los Angeles because of the sheer volume of traffic. Personally, I think I'm safer on the roads there than up here. But then, wouldn't it be better if we could all limit the need to drive at all? The older I get, the more important this principle seems to me. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Neither Right nor Left but Dead on Center...
http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/8016 Opening America's View George Soros is chairman of the Open Society Institute and of Soros Fund Management. Editor's Note: This article first appeared in The American Prospect. On May 27, 1999, at the invitation of then-Dean Paul Wolfowitz, I delivered a commencement address at the Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies in Washington. I spoke about my vision for a global open society and Wolfowitz, now deputy secretary of defense, seemed to be on the same wavelength. We had both participated in a small group called The Action Council for the Balkans, which was agitating for a more muscular policy against Slobodan Milosevic. We advocated military intervention in Bosnia much sooner than it happened. I remember a lively exchange with Colin Powell when I questioned the Powell doctrine of we do deserts but we don't do mountains. I was very supportive of Madeleine Albright's activism on Kosovo, where I was in favor of a coalition of the willing: NATO intervention without United Nations authorization. On March 7, 2003, on the eve of war with Iraq, I gave another speech at the same graduate school. This article is adapted from that speech. I was then and continue to be in favor of the removal from power of Saddam Hussein, who was, because of his chemical and biological weapons, an even more dangerous despot than Milosevic. I would like to see regime change in many other places. I am particularly concerned about Zimbabwe, where Robert Mugabe's regime is going from bad to worse. I also see Muammar Quaddafi as a dangerous troublemaker in Africa. I support a project on Burma, or Myanmar as it is now called, which backs Aung San Suu Kyi as the democratically elected leader. I have foundations in central Asia, and I would like to see regime change in countries such as Turkmenistan. And, of course, I hoped for an easy victory in Iraq, if we went to war at all. Yet I am profoundly opposed to the Bush administration's policies, not only in Iraq but altogether. My opposition is much more profound than it was in the case of the Clinton administration. I believe the Bush administration is leading the United States and the world in the wrong direction. In the past, my philanthropy focused on defeating communism and helping with the transition from closed societies to open societies in the former Soviet empire. Now I would go so far as to say that the fight for a global open society has to be fought in the United States. In short, America ought to play a very different role in the world than it is playing today. Because open society is an abstract idea, I shall proceed from the abstract and general to the concrete and particular. The concept of open society was developed by philosopher Karl R. Popper, whose book Open Society and Its Enemies argued that totalitarian ideologies -- such as communism and fascism -- posed a threat to an open society because they claimed to have found the final solution. The ultimate truth is beyond human reach. Those who say they are in possession of it are making a false claim, and they can enforce it only by coercion and repression. So Popper derived the principles of freedom and democracy -- the same principles that President Bush championed in his February speech on Iraq -- from the recognition that we may be wrong. That brings us to the crux of the matter. Bush makes absolutely no allowance for the possibility that we may be wrong, and he has no tolerance for dissenting opinion. If you are not with us you are against us, he proclaims. Donald Rumsfeld berates our European allies who disagree with him on Iraq in no uncertain terms, and he has a visceral aversion to international cooperation, be it with NATO or UN peacekeepers in Afghanistan. And John Ashcroft accuses those who opposed the USA Patriot Act of giving aid and comfort to the enemy. These are the views of extremists, not adherents to an open society. Perhaps because of my background, these views push the wrong buttons in me. And I am amazed and disappointed that the general public does not have a similar allergic reaction. Of course, that has a lot to do with September 11. But the trouble goes much deeper. It is not merely that the Bush administration's policies may be wrong, it is that they are wrong, and I would go even further: They are bound to be wrong because they are based on a false ideology. A dominant faction within the Bush administration believes that international relations are relations of power. Because we are unquestionably the most powerful, they claim, we have earned the right to impose our will on the rest of the world. This position is enshrined in the Bush doctrine that was first enunciated in the president's speech at West Point in June 2002 and then incorporated in the National Security Strategy last September. The Bush doctrine is built on two pillars: First, the United States will do everything in its power to maintain its
Oh boy :Was; Re: [biofuel] Neither Right nor Left but Dead on Center
I have avoided comments on the political views that come through here but I feel that I speak not only for myself but others that are on biofuel wanting to stick to biofuel. Why don't you guys start a biopolitical group and keep each other informed of what the media has to say. Most people take media with a grain of salt anyway, at least the conservative side does. Based on what I read, not sure what Dead on Center means other then the dead part. And why are we interested in something from 1999. The following is from OSI's webpage: May 30, 2003 OSI Publishes Report on Post-War Reconstruction in Iraq On May 22, 2003, the United Nations Security Council unanimously approved Resolution 1483 outlining reconstruction efforts in Iraq. While the resolution grants the United States, which currently occupies Iraq, wide latitude in organizing a post-war Iraqi government and overseeing extensive reconstruction efforts, it also provides for significant input from the United Nations. The UN and other members of the international community now have a responsibility to utilize their experience in multilateral cooperation to ensure that the ongoing reconstruction process is effective, fair, and consistent. Things that make you go.hm? Regards, Terry Wilhelm The Revenoor Co. INC Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/8016 - Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
