Re: [Biofuel] Shooting Down the Breeze
GreetingsBob, Capt3d,fellow members, The 4630 joules refers to the potential energy contained in 1 mole of CO2 gas,ie 22.4litres taken at 2 atm. of average pressure above atmospheric. It does not refer to heat of reaction which you have used which has to be removed by cooling tubes. I need in my palace just 20k joules of energy per day for a fridge,rice cooker, water kettle and lighting and i readily admit it is small when compared to what a rich person might be consuming.This is the maxomum energy available from the CO2. It is my guess one might convert only 30-40% of it into electrical power, that is, I need 60k joules per day or 13 g-moles of CO2. Ethanol production is 13 moles also as you have indicated, with mass of 0.748litres. At 20 times this rate I could get 15litre of ethanol per day which would be sufficient for all our travelling needs. What to do with excess power now? Cheers. bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Manick,Let's see, that 4630 joules is just a tad more than 1 Calorie (that's with a capital C) to a chemist its kilocalorie- still not a lot of energy. it's also 0.077 Kw-Hrs2 moles of CO2 are produced per mole of sugar so 180 grams gives 2 CO2 or about .15 Kw-Hrs per 180 grams of sugar.the energy in the ethanol from the fermentation is:2 moles ethanol per mole sugar so I get 2X 46 grams or 92 grams of ethanol. 92 grams X 30 kJ/gram means 2.8 mega joules of energySo I take 180 grams of sugar and ferment it I get:280 Joules from the ethanol and8720 Joules from the CO2 pressure.I increase my energy yield by a whopping 1/321I hope you have a small house and don't plan a lot of travel :-)Manick Harris wrote: Hi everybody, Here is something interesting from Andy citing Inst of Brewery article. The following referenced article indicates 1-2atm CO2 has little effect on fermentation rate initially. This could be exploited to move turbine impeller in CO2 saturated water for electric power generation. A nice university project surely. It also means that every gram- mole of CO2 (22.4 litres) gives 22.4X 10X 0.76X2X 13.6 joules = 4630 joules using simple potential energy formula mgh at 2 atm pressure. With proper scale probably enuff for my home and travelling needs. Manickh From: "Andy Walsh" Subject: effect of CO2 on yeast from Dave, I would like to hear more facts from that article in BT or Zymurgy. Anyone care to comment on examples of fermentation under CO2 pressure? OK. I'll bite. Except I'll reference (1) GJ. Arcay-Ledezma and JC Slaughter. "The response of Saccharomyces Cerevisiae to fermentation under carbon dioxide pressure" Journal of the Institute of Brewing. V90. pp81-84. 1984. (2) RS. Renger et al. The formation of esters and higher alcohols during brewery fermentation; the effect of carbon dioxide pressure". JIB. V98. pp509-513. 1992. At pressures up to 0.2 ATM, CO2 stimulates yeast growth, generally thought to be because of its use as a substrate in carboxylation reactions. 0.3 - 0.5 ATM, CO2 acts as an inhibitor, especially in the tricarboxylic cycle (part of respiration), not that this is generally relevant in real wort fermentations. Alcohol production is unaffected up to 4 ATM. 2.5 - 3.0 ATM CO2 is said to prevent cell division completely. Brewery fermentations depend upon a certain amount of cell growth so are unlikely to function above 2 ATM, depending upon the exact temperature. Within the zone 0-2ATM there is little effect of CO2 on fermentation rate *per cell*, although at the upper end a reduction in growth rate occurs, leading to an extension in the time required to reach a given level of attenuation. "The influence of the size and geometry of brewery fermentation vessels on beer flavour and aroma is generally attributed to carbon dioxide pressure." (2) Fermentations with CO2 pressure maintained at 2 ATM show prolonged fermentation times, with reduced final ester and higher alcohols. Reduced yeast biomass is another feature, as is higher final pH. VDKs and precursors are in general reduced with lager yeast and increased with ale yeast (variable results). Commercially, it is common to ferment at higher temperatures to accelerate fermentation, and with applied CO2 pressure, to reduce fermentation byproducts. Application of 2ATM CO2 at 16C decreases the fermentation rate by approximately 40%. Under the same conditions, daily agitation increases fermentation rate by 10%. "The total yeast crop was unaffected by the resuspension treatment so it seems that the faster fermentation under this condition must be due to improved mixing of yeast and fermentation medium".(1). Under static conditions, the CO2 pressure in a homebrewery fermenter is 1 ATM. This is significantly less than the 2 ATM said to retard yeast growth. There *must* be a higher CO2 pressure than 1 ATM during the fermentation to cause bubble formation - the more nucleation sites there are, the lower this difference will be. In commercial situations (big), the fermenter height will be a
Re: [Biofuel] Using stored co2 energy (was: Shooting Down the Breeze)
hey! i just remembered, homebrew champagne makers are cautioned to make sure that all yeast has been killed before finla bottling, lest continued fermentation generate so much pressure that it pops the cork. That cannot be right as to do so would leave you with flat champagne, you need the secondary fermentation to make any wine/beer fizzy. Champagne bottles have their corks wired on anyway. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol in the Philippines - just put it in and go?
I wanted to add to the reply below. . . Zeke Yewdall wrote: My understanding is that ethanol will run fine in existing gasoline engines. The difference is in compatibility with seals, and ability to vaporize at lower temperatures. It's got a bit higher vapor pressure, so in northern US, it can create hard starting in the wintertime. Having lived in a northern climate (Wisconsin, Minnesota, USA) I found it harder to start my gasoline vehicles when they have water in the gasoline line and it freezes up but now with 10 percent ethanol blended gasoline this has eliminated that problem, thank you. Methanol (HEET) caused some problems for me in my 1946 pickup truck and some of my 1960s and 1970s gasoline vehicles when methanol reacted with the rubber fuel filler hose connection to the fuel tank and carburetor floats. It does have a bit lower energy content per gallon, and higher oxygen content, which could confuse the electronic controls systems that most cars have now. They measure input airflow, and oxygen content in the exhaust, and decide how much fuel can be put in and still assure complete combustion. I don't know if ethanol might mess this up. Older cabureated cars you'd probably just have to reset the jets. Using 10 percent ethanol blended gasoline I've gotten better fuel mileage in the summer with it but less so in the cold winter. My carburetor vehicles worked fine with 10 percent ethanol blended gasoline fuel without adjusting the carburetor jets. The lower energy content per gallon also means that the mpg is a bit less. Somewhere around 10% I think??? If you designed the car to run only on ethanol, then you can typically use a much higher compression ratio (12:1 or so instead of 9:1 or less). This gives you back alot of the performance and mpg losses from using the lower energy content fuel. My use of 10 percent blended gasoline has not decreased my average annual fuel mileage. Its still 48 miles-per-gallon. The rusted front brake rotors did but thats been fixed. As far as seals, I haven't heard anything on ethanol causing seals to degrade, but I may be wrong. Just a few days ago on this listserve, there was a discussion on methanol, and the possibility of high concentrations of it hurting the aluminum and light alloy engines. It seems like if it did have issues with corrosion or rubber degradation, 10% would be enough to cause them, and since most of the winter gas sold in the northern US is 10% ethanol for pollution control, I imagine it doesn't. I haven't noticed any degradation while using 10 percent ethanol. There was a report several years ago done at the University of Minnesota - Mankato that used up to 25 percent ethanol blended gasoline fuel and it worked here in the northern USA climate though I haven't read the details. I also read a report done in the 1940s by the University of Iowa - Ames that also worked well using ethanol blended gasoline fuel in carburetor vehicles. I wonder if they are using 100% ethanol, or ~95% ethanol (which is what denatured ethanol usually is -- a little gasoline put in to keep you from drinking it), or 95% ethanol/5% water which I understand is the highest purity you can distill it to. At that ratio, it forms a constant boiling mixture, and you can't get it to 100% pure by distillation. Does anyone know how they get the last bit of water out? And whether it would affect the engine if they didn't? It's in solution, so I imagine it would just cause a little more water vapor in the exhaust, and slighly lower mpg. It shouldn't cause freezing, since I've tried to freeze 100 proof vodka, and it stays liquid at -10F, and this woud equivalent to 190 proof. Huh, hows 100 proof equivalent to 190 proof ? My two cents. On 9/9/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A new list member (hi there!) told listadmin this a few days ago: Ethanol has been introduced in Manila just this month and I'm getting excited about it. The rising costs of fuel is really a burden here and through this list, I hope I would be able to gain lots of knowledge about Ethanol. Our government is encouraging us to use this fuel, they're telling us that we don't have to convert our engines in order for us to use Ethanol. I'm a little bit hesitant but I guess they're right coz I've been reading various sites from the web and they all said that there's no for us to have our existing engines converted nor there are any bad effects in using Ethanol. Any comments? Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen tablet
More information about this 'magic pill': http://www.amminex.com/index.htm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alt.EnergyNetwork Sent: den 9 september 2005 22:18 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] hydrogen tablet Scientists at the Technical University of Denmark have invented a technology which may be an important step towards the hydrogen economy: a hydrogen tablet that effectively stores hydrogen in an inexpensive and safe material ..innovationsreport.de This is a very interesting development http://www.innovationsreport.de/html/berichte/energie_elektrotechnik/ bericht-48872.html http://tinyurl.com/auxo6 regards tallex next_generation_grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid news resources forums tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network http://www.alternate-energy.net 1000+ news sources - resources updated daily ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.o rg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] is this a better use for sump oil?
Hi all, I have e-mailed these people asking for an analysis of the diesel fuel that their system is producing. No reply, so far. That´s not a good sign. Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: alex burton To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 11:02 AM Subject: [Biofuel] is this a better use for sump oil? Hi all I found this link on ebay(Australia) 1.is it just a expensive filter system plan? 2. Is it worth using to "recycle" my sump oil? 3.dose it have the same emissions as "dirty diesel" http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HOME-MADE-DIESEL-BETTER-THAN-BIODIESEL-BIOFUEL-WVO-SVO_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6763QQitemZ7997660498QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Using stored co2 energy (was: Shooting Down the Breeze)
Tq Chris, My reason for posting is to stimulate interestto convince other group members to undertake ethanol and power generation projects.I am not in a position to dothem here in Malaysia or India, countries full of skull-duggering and dangerof losing all the investment due to fraudulent practices by the unscrupulous, without recourse to justice. I could give pages and pages of bad business ethics. It is very bad here which is the main reason this country is in languishing thedoldrums. The best I can do is to convince members that these concepts are viable and that there is great need to now to find alternatives to petroleum fuels. Cheers ManickhChris lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hey! i just remembered, homebrew champagne makers are cautioned to make surethat all yeast has been killed before finla bottling, lest continuedfermentation generate so much pressure that it pops the cork. That cannot be right as to do so would leave you with flat champagne, you need the secondary fermentation to make any wine/beer fizzy. Champagne bottles have their corks wired on anyway. Chris.Wessex Ferret Clubwww.wessexferretclub.co.uk___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Alcohol:Food vs fuel
Dear Manick I am native of South India.It is very true that Malaysia and India,the fuel alcohol can be mis used as the drinks. Brazil , where I live now ,here too are making alcohol for local consume and exportation as the alcoholic drinks and fuel made from sugarcane and fruits as both are the needs In south India where there is always power cut expected more than 30 porcent , locally made distilled home made alcohol, the municipal government can buy and use for transport and power generation. You are showing the real problem of corrupt practice there .Thus local use of ethanol for fuel instead of commercial use can solve the powercut there.This is need decentralised development of municipality.Only private company need to do all , under corrupted some political party not bothered about real problem of energy development. Based on traditional local home made alcohol , India can produce as much as Brazil (2 bilhoes liter of alcohol for food and fuel) and can solve the energy crisis.The farmer need to put light in the night and make plantation in India where as the farmer from USA, France and Europe has government financial help. Manick , surely India and can make possible the home made decentralised bio ethanol that thus make using pot , to put in their small motorised bicycle , thus making them independent to get away the poverty and all corrupted petroleum business , which is the root cause of the poverty, making people dependence on imported fuel that they can not pay. I wish to request Keith to publish via our list members from India about the low cost pot distillation, as this so simple and low cost ,any one can made fuel in their home based on this pot made tradicional alcohol which had made and making making story of so many tragedy and death of alcohol addiction .But this bad story can be made to be real a solution for the energy crysis sd Pannirselvam On 9/10/05, Manick Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tq Chris, My reason for posting is to stimulate interestto convince other group members to undertake ethanol and power generation projects.I am not in a position to dothem here in Malaysia or India, countries full of skull-duggering and dangerof losing all the investment due to fraudulent practices by the unscrupulous, without recourse to justice. I could give pages and pages of bad business ethics. It is very bad here which is the main reason this country is in languishing thedoldrums. The best I can do is to convince members that these concepts are viable and that there is great need to now to find alternatives to petroleum fuels. Cheers ManickhChris lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hey! i just remembered, homebrew champagne makers are cautioned to make surethat all yeast has been killed before finla bottling, lest continued fermentation generate so much pressure that it pops the cork. That cannot be right as to do so would leave you with flat champagne, you need the secondary fermentation to make any wine/beer fizzy. Champagne bottles have their corks wired on anyway. Chris.Wessex Ferret Clubwww.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ --Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQCentro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular8488145083 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Twilight in the Desert
There's much by and about Simmons in the archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?restrict=;exclude=;config =biofuel_sustainablelists_org;method=and;format=short;words=Simmons;pa ge=6 Search results for 'Simmons' Or: http://snipurl.com/hkol Also try a search for Michael T Klare: http://www.mail-archive.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?config=biofuel_sustainabl elists_orgrestrict=exclude=words=Klare Or: http://snipurl.com/hkon Search results for 'Klare' - [It ends in mid-word, but that's all there is. - K] http://www.globalpublicmedia.com/transcripts/463 Global Public Media Matt Simmons speaks with Jim Puplava (transcript) 6 August 2005 JIM PUPLAVA: Joining me on the program is Matthew Simmons. He's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Simmons Company International, a Houston-based investment bank that specializes in the energy industry. Mr. Simmons serves on the boards of Brown-Forman Corporation, The Atlantic Council of The United States, he's also a member of the National Petroleum Council and The Council of Foreign Relations. He has an MBA from Harvard University. And he's here to discuss his new book Twilight in the Desert: The Coming Saudi Oil Shock and the World Economy. Matt, I want to start out the discussion from the back of your book in Appendix B. Several years ago you did a study of the world's major oil fields. What did you find? MATTHEW SIMMONS: It was really an incredible exercise of trying to collect the data no one had ever actually thought of doing before, and that's, what are the top oil fields in the world - field by field. And the background for me doing this is that I've participated 2 years in a row in an energy supply workshop, conducted by the energy analysts of the CIA in Washington, where they got about 10 of the best oil experts together, and we'd spend a day doing a discussion of all the key countries, and how much oil capacity they had in place over the course of the coming 3 years. I sat there listening aghast at all of these experts with their laptops that kept looking at their supply models, and it's how China will be producing 3,217,000 barrels/day this year, and 3,281,000 barrels/day. And I basically said: how do you all even know that. What are the 3 or 4 top fields in China? And no one had any answers. So I decided it would be interesting and educational to see if you could actually put together a list of the top 20 oil fields by name. And I thought somebody must have done this before, and the more I dug the more I realized that no one ever had. So I basically decided - arbitrarily - 100,000 barrels per day [bpd] production was my cutoff of what constituted a giant oil field and all Fall of 2000, I believe this was, I basically took data from various areas and kept trying to hone in on the total list, and I decided once I got it done, I would circulate it widely to the 4 or 5 or 6 hundred people who really ought to know the areas a lot better, and that would flush out the real data. What I came up with was finding that there are about 120 oil fields in the world that still produced over 100,000 bpd, and that they collectively were 49% of the world's oil supply. What I also found is that the top 14 fields that still produce over 500,000 bpd each, were 20% of the world's oil supply, and on average they were 53 years old. The next thing I found was that in the Middle East you had basically, somewhere between 3-5 oil fields in each of the major Middle East oil producers that made up about 90% of their supply - and until I did that I had just assumed the Middle East had hundreds of oil fields - and all these oil fields were old. And then what I found was - because we made it clear that anyone who wanted a copy could get one, but the caveat was that if you have any better information, let me know - I probably shipped over a thousand of these copies out to people and I had about 5 responses of here's a field you missed, here's a field you misspelled or here's a field you said it was producing X, and I believe it's probably producing Y. Only about 5 responses, out of over a thousand people who got this. What I got from hundreds of people was this is amazing, I've never thought about this before. And these aren't just sort of random people, these are people that are all passionate energy analysts. So that gave me the background, when I finally had my only trip I've ever taken to Saudi Arabia. I knew ahead of time that they had these 5 key fields that must still be producing 90% of their oil, and it was that knowledge and data that allowed me to just peer into presentations we were having, so that I came away saying, you know I really wonder whether in fact we're sitting on an illusion that Saudia Arabia has all this vast amount of producible oil. And I also then had an idea of what issues I should start trying to research, and within months I had discovered this phenomenal database of
[Biofuel] NYTimes.com: The New Prize: Alternative Fuels
Title: E-Mail This This page was sent to you by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message from sender: fyi BUSINESS | September 10, 2005 The New Prize: Alternative Fuels By DANNY HAKIM The nations roads are a moving laboratory of alternatives to gasoline combustion engines, often being driven by average Americans, if in small numbers. 1. Op-Ed Columnist: Neigh to Cronies 2. The Former First Lady: Barbara Bush Calls Evacuees Better Off 3. Your Money: Some Ways to Prepare for the Absolute Worst 4. Op-Ed Columnist: Point Those Fingers 5. Editorial: A Shameful Proclamation Go to Complete List Do you love NY? Get the insiders guide to where to stay, what to do and where to eat. Go to www.nytimes.com/travel for your NYC Guide now. Click here. Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company | Privacy Policy ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] NYTimes.com: On Oil Supply, Opinions Aren't Scarce
Title: E-Mail This This page was sent to you by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message from sender: fyi BUSINESS | September 10, 2005 Joseph Nocera: On Oil Supply, Opinions Arent Scarce Does it surprise you that when it comes to one of the most vital resources known to man, there is such an incredible divergence of opinion? It sure surprised me. 1. Op-Ed Columnist: Neigh to Cronies 2. The Former First Lady: Barbara Bush Calls Evacuees Better Off 3. Your Money: Some Ways to Prepare for the Absolute Worst 4. Op-Ed Columnist: Point Those Fingers 5. Editorial: A Shameful Proclamation Go to Complete List Do you love NY? Get the insiders guide to where to stay, what to do and where to eat. Go to www.nytimes.com/travel for your NYC Guide now. Click here. Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company | Privacy Policy ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alcohol:Food vs fuel
Dear Pannir, Manick Dear Manick snip> Manick , surely India and can make possible the home made decentralised bio ethanol that thus make using pot , to put in their small motorised bicycle , thus making them independent to get away the poverty and all corrupted petroleum business , which is the root cause of the poverty, making people dependence on imported fuel that they can not pay. I wish to request Keith to publish via our list members from India about the low cost pot distillation, as this so simple and low cost ,any one can made fuel in their home based on this pot made tradicional alcohol which had made and making making story of so many tragedy and death of alcohol addiction .But this bad story can be made to be real a solution for the energy crysis It's one reason I first thought, years ago, that ethanol might be a better energy choice in 3rd World rural communities than biodiesel/SVO. The distilling technology is found just about everywhere, even if people won't admit it. Maybe it can also be improved and made safer - tragedies are common all over the world with sometimes scores of people being killed by badly made local liquor. I'd be happy to upload plans for a simple pot still anyone anywhere can make, if someone can provide the plans, and instructions for building and use, including fermenting, for common sugar and starch crops. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ sd Pannirselvam On 9/10/05, Manick Harris mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Tq Chris, My reason for posting is to stimulate interest to convince other group members to undertake ethanol and power generation projects.I am not in a position to do them here in Malaysia or India, countries full of skull-duggering and danger of losing all the investment due to fraudulent practices by the unscrupulous, without recourse to justice. I could give pages and pages of bad business ethics. It is very bad here which is the main reason this country is in languishing the doldrums. The best I can do is to convince members that these concepts are viable and that there is great need to now to find alternatives to petroleum fuels. Cheers Manickh Chris lloyd mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > hey! i just remembered, homebrew champagne makers are cautioned to make > sure that all yeast has been killed before finla bottling, lest continued fermentation generate so much pressure that it pops the cork. That cannot be right as to do so would leave you with flat champagne, you need the secondary fermentation to make any wine/beer fizzy. Champagne bottles have their corks wired on anyway. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club http://www.wessexferretclub.co.uk>www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/>Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ Biofuel mailing list mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Pagandai V Pannirselvam Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CT Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence : Av Odilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 Capim Macio EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210 32171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular 84 88145083 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
[Biofuel] Vancouver Biodiesel Co-Op Re-Release
Anybody in the Vancouver BC area who is interested in Bio D should come down to 360 Industrial Today for the Re-release of the Vancouver Biodiesel Co-Op as the Recycling Alternative has taken over thje operation of the group. Come meet Johannas Wheeldon who drove across Canada filling only on Bio D from B5 to B100 vince z__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] is this a better use for sump oil?
Title: Message I really don't see where this is doable. In 1978 I experimented a great deal in the conversion of motor oil into fuel (diesel and/or gasoline). I tried many methods, including constructing a fractional distillation tower and using catalysts to "crack" the stuff. The major problem that I ran across was the "additives" put into all of the various brands. While I did manage to create some of the lower distillates, the odor of the process rendered it totally impractical. Walker Bennett Sedona, Arizona "I do not fear computers. I fear lack of them." --Isaac Asimov My personal homepage My writing portfolio In The Beginning - ISBN: 1-4116-3848-4 Just In Time - ISBN 1-4116-3851-4 Ad Astra - Coming Soon from Cydonia Publishing -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan WarnqvistSent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 2:04 AMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Bulk] Re: [Biofuel] is this a better use for sump oil? Hi all, I have e-mailed these people asking for an analysis of the diesel fuel that their system is producing. No reply, so far. That´s not a good sign. Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alcohol:Food vs fuel
Hellow Keith Thank you very much for your kind reply. As Manick is from India , I am going to request him to make foto of this simple distillation using pot made by poor people of the soth of India. Balaji can be of very much helpful and there are a lot of our list members . Thanking You Yours truely Pannirselvam On 9/10/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQCentro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular8488145083 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] NYTimes.com: The New Prize: Alternative Fuels
When will there be a difinitive answer to whether it takes more energy to produce the alchole than you get out of it? I know someone who works at ADM here in IL. I asked him about that and one thing he mentioned is that they're one of the largest co-gen's in the country. One thing that scares me is an article I read by the audubon. http://magazine.audubon.org/incite/incite0408.html Let to the editor about the article http://magazine.audubon.org/letter/letter0412.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This page was sent to you by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] fyi BUSINESS | September 10, 2005 The New Prize: Alternative Fuels By DANNY HAKIM The nation's roads are a moving laboratory of alternatives to gasoline combustion engines, often being driven by average Americans, if in small numbers. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/10/business/10alternative.html?ex=1127016000en=8b229bd414989c6cei=5070emc=eta1 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alcohol:Food vs fuel
Hello Pannir Hellow Keith Thank you very much for your kind reply. You're welcome, I hope we manage to do it. As Manick is from India , But Manick is from Malaysia. I am going to request him to make foto of this simple distillation using pot made by poor people of the soth of India. Doesn't the same thing happen in Brazil too? And in Africa? Balaji can be of very much helpful and there are a lot of our list members . Yes, lots of Indian members, including many who don't post. They're welcome anyway of course, but maybe some of them can help with this. Best wishes Keith Thanking You Yours truely Pannirselvam On 9/10/05, Keith Addison mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ___ Biofuel mailing list mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelist s.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainable lists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org /biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/http://www .mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Pagandai V Pannirselvam Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CT Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence : Av Odilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 Capim Macio EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210 32171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular 84 88145083 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alcohol:Food vs fuel
Hellow Keith Thank you very much for your kind reply. You're welcome, I hope we manage to do it. As Manick is from India ,As Manick is from Malasia and also he move often there I have written to him about your dedicated to help all the farmer in the world , the only one such in net. Doesn't the same thing happen in Brazil too? And in Africa? Fermentation is the same as you think.But the distillation has three pot the bigpot wood fired at the bottom , the intermediate size pot at the top as the condensor with water and the small pot inside big one under the watercondensing pot with some suport The foto can make the understandin well . May be our list members can improve the degin . The other project I need help from you is to make solid gelbiofuel using the waste from Bio D process as this require low cost stoves I wish your hard work of JFT the great work need to have great future , making possible the links of people via web conference etc so that our journey together possible as I find JFT is simple useful and practical than many fotologs, weblogs . Let me have the helping hand for your sleepless work thanking you yours Pannirselvasm Balaji can beof very much helpfuland there are a lot of ourlist members . Yes, lots of Indian members, including many who don't post. They'rewelcome anyway of course, but maybe some of them can help with this.Best wishesKeithThanking You Yours truely PannirselvamOn 9/10/05, Keith Addisonmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:___Biofuel mailing listmailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelist s.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/http://www.mail- archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/--Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQGrupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210 32171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770residencia 32171557 Cellular8488145083___ Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQCentro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQGrupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210 32171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular8488145083 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Twilight in the Desert
Keith Addison wrote: [It ends in mid-word, but that's all there is. - K] Download the WMP version to listen to the entire interview: http://www.globalpublicmedia.com/interviews/462 robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Twilight in the Desert
Keith Addison wrote: Toward the end of the interview, Matthew Simmons talks about the grim possibility of an upcoming energy war. He says that we need to fundamentally examine the way we use energy and reorganize society so that we can sustain an economy with less. I heard remarks about getting trucks off our highways, using trains and ships instead, coupled with a claim that this is somewhere between 3 and 5 times more efficient. Further, getting trucks off the highways will improve traffic flow and fuel economy for our current vehicle fleet. Many of us would be delighted to hear his discussion about food miles too. He concludes with the concept of distributed work, where technology enables people to work from home, or from within their village to reduce the two to three hours per day of commuting time that could otherwise be devoted to productive activity. He advocates breaking globalization, which he describes as a really flawed plan because it takes industrial production and breaks it down into small pieces that are built in low cost parts of the world, only to have these pieces shipped all over the world and assembled, at great energy inefficiency. He says that we should build products close to home. (What a novel concept!) Matthew Simmons contends that by doing these things, we could reduce energy consumption by 20 - 40%. You'd think that he was a subscriber here, as many of us have been saying these things for a LONG time. However, he claims that this Plan B outlined above has a 3 - 5 year window in which to work. During that time, he says we need a MASSIVE research and development project into energy production along the lines of how radar and nuclear weapons were developed in WWII. Interesting . . . robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
