Re: [Biofuel] C-SPAN
Why is this source so ignored when it produces over 3 gallons for every one expended? I suspect that a analysis of whether more soybean or corn farms are owned by small family operations, or by large mega-farms might shed some like on this. I seem to remember some report that suggested that alot of the opposition to biofuels (presumably biodiesel) was not just because they were an affront to oil companies, but because the majority of production was owned by co-ops rather than industrial farms. The establishment sees the co-op owner ship as being even more of a danger than the alternative fuel. I wish I could remember the details. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] wind and current power
Kirk McLoren wrote: Sometimes engineering proposals are just gee whiz stuff. Just to show that you are capable of thinking outside the box. They don't have to have much to do with practicality. The hazard to air navigation is enough to scuttle this idea let alone the liability considerations of falling stuff. Just try to erect a tower and see the restraints and then imagine what would happen should you decide you want to hang this apparatus several km in the sky. We used to have sayings to describe this -- Such as Here's a neat idea --Course it's as practical as airbrakes on an ant but still neat. Well, megawatt turbines way up in the sky would qualify as one of these. Neat. You may be dismissing this a little too easily Kirk. Since the jetstream is pretty much everywhere this is something that could be put in the middle of nowhere. It's not hard to imagine such a turbine being flown in the middle of the desert, for example, where there isn't anyone for miles around. IIRC, the article in PopSci had motor-generators onboard and they used them as motors to get them up into the jetstream. No balloon necessary. I think the technical problems can be solved. I'm not entirely sure it's a good idea. I'm also much less than sure that it can be an economical source of power. --- David Kirk */TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: On Sep 11, 2005, at 3:43 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suspect that large arrays of wind farms would have an effect similar to forests. We've chopped down a lot of forests over tha last few hundred years, so this doesn't worry me. Tidal power would slow the earth's rotation a little faster than it is slowing anyway from friction - probably not a big deal. Removing a significant fraction of energy from say the Gulf Stream strikes me as asking for trouble. Regarding jet streams, I would be worried if it were possible. They wiggle around so much that I can't imagine any practical method of tapping their energy. I remember some blue sky stuff that proposed wind turbines hanging from high altitude balloons, anchored by long tethers. I suppose the tethers were supposed to carry current to the ground, though I'm now struck by the weight of a few miles of high tension copper or aluminum line. As far as staying in the jet stream, It seems like it would be trivial to design a self-steering system like that used for singlehand sailing. If the tether's anchor points were far enough apart, the system could probably swing a few miles north and south and around a hundred degrees or more of the compass, tracking the strongest winds. I think the jet stream shifts hundreds of miles, so I don't know what that would be worth. Anyway it was this kind of big scale extraction that seemed like it could have devastating consequences. Of course you'd need millions of acres of ground level turbines to extract the kind of energy that a wind farm hanging in the jet stream might capture. But I remember reading about this and the proposals to hang big blades in the gulf stream and thinking, Oh Jeez! Another massive engineering project with wildly unpredictable side effects! Taryn http://ornae.com/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! for Good Watch the Hurricane Katrina Shelter From The Storm concert http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/shelter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] trying to learn to make biodiesel
have tried 2 batches in a blender. think I've got both results the same. paying closer attention the second time. using new corn oil w/red devil lye and dry gas for methanol in a blender. my results are at first 2 very thin layers on top. the top layera darker brown, the second layer is clear, the third layer is more than 3/4 the total and is a light brown, and then a dark brown on bottom. I'm unsure of the top 2 layers the first time i think they disappeared. maybe by getting bupped around. the top thin darker layer maybe just the edge of the liquid clinging to the side and appears darker, except the layer under it is clear. anyhow i did a quality test on my fist batch with a 1 liter bottle filled with 250ml of water and 250ml of what i though was bio diesel and shuck it up and 24 hrs later it had still not separated. when i did this test i did not notice the top 2 thin layers that i talked about but they may have been there. i am thinking my methanol is not good methanol but have no idea whats going on. any help would be appreciated thanks Kent__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol in the Philippines - just put it in and go?
I was trying to theorize on what using a 100% ethanol fuel would be like. From MH's experience, it seems pretty obvious that 10% or even 25% ethanol has no ill effects and could actually run in unmodified gas engine better than 100% gasoline. I wanted to add to the reply below. . . Zeke Yewdall wrote: My understanding is that ethanol will run fine in existing gasoline engines. The difference is in compatibility with seals, and ability to vaporize at lower temperatures. It's got a bit higher vapor pressure, so in northern US, it can create hard starting in the wintertime. Having lived in a northern climate (Wisconsin, Minnesota, USA) I found it harder to start my gasoline vehicles when they have water in the gasoline line and it freezes up but now with 10 percent ethanol blended gasoline this has eliminated that problem, thank you. Methanol (HEET) caused some problems for me in my 1946 pickup truck and some of my 1960s and 1970s gasoline vehicles when methanol reacted with the rubber fuel filler hose connection to the fuel tank and carburetor floats. It does have a bit lower energy content per gallon, and higher oxygen content, which could confuse the electronic controls systems that most cars have now. They measure input airflow, and oxygen content in the exhaust, and decide how much fuel can be put in and still assure complete combustion. I don't know if ethanol might mess this up. Older cabureated cars you'd probably just have to reset the jets. Using 10 percent ethanol blended gasoline I've gotten better fuel mileage in the summer with it but less so in the cold winter. My carburetor vehicles worked fine with 10 percent ethanol blended gasoline fuel without adjusting the carburetor jets. The lower energy content per gallon also means that the mpg is a bit less. Somewhere around 10% I think??? If you designed the car to run only on ethanol, then you can typically use a much higher compression ratio (12:1 or so instead of 9:1 or less). This gives you back alot of the performance and mpg losses from using the lower energy content fuel. My use of 10 percent blended gasoline has not decreased my average annual fuel mileage. Its still 48 miles-per-gallon. The rusted front brake rotors did but thats been fixed. As far as seals, I haven't heard anything on ethanol causing seals to degrade, but I may be wrong. Just a few days ago on this listserve, there was a discussion on methanol, and the possibility of high concentrations of it hurting the aluminum and light alloy engines. It seems like if it did have issues with corrosion or rubber degradation, 10% would be enough to cause them, and since most of the winter gas sold in the northern US is 10% ethanol for pollution control, I imagine it doesn't. I haven't noticed any degradation while using 10 percent ethanol. There was a report several years ago done at the University of Minnesota - Mankato that used up to 25 percent ethanol blended gasoline fuel and it worked here in the northern USA climate though I haven't read the details. I also read a report done in the 1940s by the University of Iowa - Ames that also worked well using ethanol blended gasoline fuel in carburetor vehicles. I wonder if they are using 100% ethanol, or ~95% ethanol (which is what denatured ethanol usually is -- a little gasoline put in to keep you from drinking it), or 95% ethanol/5% water which I understand is the highest purity you can distill it to. At that ratio, it forms a constant boiling mixture, and you can't get it to 100% pure by distillation. Does anyone know how they get the last bit of water out? And whether it would affect the engine if they didn't? It's in solution, so I imagine it would just cause a little more water vapor in the exhaust, and slighly lower mpg. It shouldn't cause freezing, since I've tried to freeze 100 proof vodka, and it stays liquid at -10F, and this woud equivalent to 190 proof. Huh, hows 100 proof equivalent to 190 proof ? Ooops. Indefinite modifier, or whatever they call that grammer error I meant that 95% ethanol would be 190 proof. My two cents. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Giving up
well, I have found a batch of oil that won't sepparate. I have heated it to 220f to make sure there isn't any water in it. It has been at 220f for an hour or so with no boiling. I have titrated it several times with a result of 5. I have made test batches at 5, 7, 8, 9 and 10 grams per litre with no sepparation, just a light brown soup that jells when it cools. the oil itself seams to stay quite thick up to 120-130f. Is there anything that could be in the oil to make it do this? Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo?
My company has been doing some testing with regard to shelf life of Biodiesel. This driven mainly by the debate going on between European and North American standards bodies. ASTM 6571 does not address fuel stability, but the European tests for stability will really only pass BD made from Rapeseed. Enough on that though, the question at hand is shelf life. The findings that we have are that BD does more readily oxidize than petrol diesel. So if left in a open container the shelf life is very short. It will still burn after oxidized but not nearly as well. On the other, most of us would be storing our BD in a sealed container, which limits the oxidation to the amount of air and surface area. The best thing to do is to store it in a sealed container that is as full as practically possible. This limits oxidation to a level that probably won't be noticeable. Of course, if you really want to keep it a long time you can displace the air in the container with nitrogen and then it will keep for a long time, this is something of course that only the military would consider. Hope this helps. Doug Memering Keith Addison wrote: Who is putting about mis- or disinfo that biodiesel has a very short shelf-life? We keep getting enquiries from people who seem to think so. Does the biodiesel have a shelf life? Or: I read somewhere that biodesil has a short shelf life. And so on and on and on. Somewhere, hm. Any ideas where this BS is coming from? Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alcohol:Food vs fuel
Hello Dr.Pannirselvam/Subramaniam, I read that many small scale enterprises are encouraged in India, with tax exemption. If project funding can be arranged somewhere in Chennai or any other suitable place with proper allowances I could come there tohelp outin ethanolof ethanol and wood pyrolysis. Or perhaps as special Institute/ College project where we won't be harassed by petty officials out for quick buck. With engines modified to run on E85 and wood spirit.Once project is finished I'll return to Penang.LOL Manickh "subramanian D.V" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Mr. PanneerSelvam, I've been reading your inputs to this forum quite for sometime and your enthusiasm is really contagious! but there are problems for individuals for producing alcohol. The process is simple enough for small scale (back yard) production which you recommend. raw material such as sweet sorghum and sugar beet can be grown ; the economics of production is well known to those in the field. Special strains of sweet sorghum are available in National Research Institutes in Hyderabad, as well as at Indian Institute of Agricultural Research . But. The moment I announce that I'm going to make my own fuel ( for personal use) half a dozen Govt agencies will raid my place ! Production of ethyl alcohol isnot possible without Govt license (which is not easy to get for an individual), payment of several duties and taxes and bribes on the side. Even if the farmers make alcohol on the sly, on second thoughts they would rather drink it than use for fuel. You know the types in India. On the commercial scale Indian Sugar Mills Assocn have half a million litres of surplus ethanol forE05 in the whole country but then theIndian oil corporation is still dragging its feet issuing purchase tenders for ethanol. So these are the ground realities here. Still I keep hoping it will change in due course. Regards, Subramanian "Pannirselvam P.V" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Manick I am native of South India.It is very true that Malaysia and India,the fuel alcohol can be mis used as the drinks. Brazil , where I live now ,here too are making alcohol for local consume and exportation as the alcoholic drinks and fuel made from sugarcane and fruits as both are the needs In south India where there is always power cut expected more than 30 porcent , locally made distilled home made alcohol, the municipal government can buy and use for transport and power generation. You are showing the real problem of corrupt practice there .Thus local use of ethanol for fuel instead of commercial use can solve the powercut there.This is need decentralised development of municipality.Only private company need to do all , under corrupted some political party not bothered about real problem of energy development. Based on traditional local home made alcohol , India can produce as much as Brazil (2 bilhoes liter of alcohol for food and fuel) and can solve the energy crisis.The farmer need to put light in the night and make plantation in India where as the farmer from USA, France and Europe has government financial help.Manick , surely India and can make possible the home made decentralised bio ethanol that thus make using pot , to put in their small motorised bicycle , thus making them independent to get away the poverty and all corrupted petroleum business , which is the root cause of the poverty, making people dependence on imported fuel that they can not pay. I wish to request Keith to publish via our list members from India about the low cost pot distillation, as this so simple and low cost ,any one can made fuel in their home based on this pot made tradicional alcohol which had made and making making story of so many tragedy and death of alcohol addiction .But this bad story can be made to be real a solution for the energy crysis sdPannirselvam On 9/10/05, Manick Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tq Chris, My reason for posting is to stimulate interestto convince other group members to undertake ethanol and power generation projects.I am not in a position to dothem here in Malaysia or India, countries full of skull-duggering and dangerof losing all the investment due to fraudulent practices by the unscrupulous, without recourse to justice. I could give pages and pages of bad business ethics. It is very bad here which is the main reason this country is in languishing thedoldrums. The best I can do is to convince members that these concepts are viable and that there is great need to now to find alternatives to petroleum fuels. Cheers Manickh Chris lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hey! i just remembered, homebrew champagne makers are cautioned to make surethat all yeast has been killed before finla bottling, lest continued fermentation generate so much pressure that it pops the cork. That cannot be right as to do so would leave you with flat champagne, you need the secondary fermentation to make any wine/beer fizzy. Champagne bottles have their corks wired on
Re: [Biofuel] More pork for Halliburton, Bechtel and Shaw
Slim and none... Richard Littrell wrote: Me too. I thought this only happened at the UN. Say, what do you suppose the chances are that Bush will ask Paul Volker to lead an independnet investigation of Halliburton? :-) Rick Mike Weaver wrote: I'm shocked, shocked, to find out that steering has occured in Washington DC. Welcome to DC. Kirk McLoren wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/10/katrina.contracts.reut/index.html Firms with White House ties get Katrina contracts FEMA taps Halliburton subsidiary, Shaw Group, Bechtel for cleanup Saturday, September 10, 2005; Posted: 1:26 p.m. EDT (17:26 GMT) SPECIAL REPORT http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2005/katrina/ *WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Companies with ties to the Bush White House and the former head of FEMA are clinching some of the administration's first disaster relief and reconstruction contracts in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.* At least two major corporate clients of lobbyist Joe Allbaugh, President Bush's former campaign manager and a former head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, have already been tapped to start recovery work along the battered Gulf Coast. One is Shaw Group Inc. and the other is Halliburton Co. subsidiary Kellogg Brown and Root. Vice President Dick Cheney is a former head of Halliburton. Bechtel National Inc., a unit of San Francisco-based Bechtel Corp., has also been selected by FEMA to provide short-term housing for people displaced by the hurricane. Bush named Bechtel's CEO to his Export Council and put the former CEO of Bechtel Energy in charge of the Overseas Private Investment Corporation. Experts say it has been common practice in both Republican and Democratic administrations for policy makers to take lobbying jobs once they leave office, and many of the same companies seeking contracts in the wake of Hurricane Katrina have already received billions of dollars for work in Iraq. Halliburton alone has earned more than $9 billion. Pentagon audits released by Democrats in June showed $1.03 billion in questioned costs and $422 million in unsupported costs for Halliburton's work in Iraq. Watchdog groups take notice But the web of Bush administration connections is attracting renewed attention from watchdog groups in the post-Katrina reconstruction rush. Congress has already appropriated more than $60 billion in emergency funding as a down payment on recovery efforts projected to cost well over $100 billion. The government has got to stop stacking senior positions with people who are repeatedly cashing in on the public trust in order to further private commercial interests, said Danielle Brian, executive director of the Project on Government Oversight. Bush appointees at Halliburton Allbaugh formally registered as a lobbyist for Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown and Root in February. In lobbying disclosure forms filed with the Senate, Allbaugh said his goal was to educate the congressional and executive branch on defense, disaster relief and homeland security issues affecting Kellogg Brown and Root. Melissa Norcross, a Halliburton spokeswoman, said Allbaugh has not, since he was hired, consulted on any specific contracts that the company is considering pursuing, nor has he been tasked by the company with any lobbying responsibilities. Allbaugh is also a friend of Michael Brown, director of FEMA who was removed as head of Katrina disaster relief and sent back to Washington amid allegations he had padded his resume -- which he denies. A few months after Allbaugh was hired by Halliburton, the company retained another high-level Bush appointee, Kirk Van Tine. Van Tine registered as a lobbyist for Halliburton six months after resigning as deputy transportation secretary, a position he held from December 2003 to December 2004. On Friday, Kellogg Brown Root received $29.8 million in Pentagon contracts to begin rebuilding Navy bases in Louisiana and Mississippi. Norcross said the work was covered under a contract that the company negotiated before Allbaugh was hired. Cheney's relationship with Halliburton Halliburton continues to be a source of income for Cheney, who served as its chief executive officer from 1995 until 2000 when he joined the Republican ticket for the White House. According to tax filings released in April, Cheney's income included $194,852 in deferred pay from the company, which has also won billion-dollar government contracts in Iraq. Cheney's office said the amount of deferred compensation is fixed and is not affected by Halliburton's current economic performance or earnings. Allbaugh's other major client, Baton Rouge-based Shaw Group, has updated its Web site to say: Hurricane Recovery Projects -- Apply Here! Shaw said on Thursday it has received a $100 million emergency FEMA contract for housing management and construction. Shaw also clinched a $100
Re: [Biofuel] wind and current power
Sparc IPX anyone? TarynToo wrote: Oh...doh...fooled me. I was looking forward to hearing all the good dirt... Mostly I blow my money maintaining my museum of ancient Mac, BSD, Solaris, Linux Boxen. Foolishly, I gave away my CBM PETs and C64s, but I still have my KIM1! Taryn http://ornae.com/ On Sep 11, 2005, at 9:21 PM, Mike Weaver wrote: No, I was being silly! I prefer to blow my money building things like BD reactors or heat transfer devices for wood stoves! TarynToo wrote: Really? Genuine scam? I read about it in Wired or Pop Sci, figured it was just a master's thesis, or some defense proposal. Taryn http://ornae.com/ On Sep 11, 2005, at 5:57 PM, Mike Weaver wrote: *Yeah, I invested in that. Ponzi scheme. TarynToo wrote: ... I remember some blue sky stuff that proposed wind turbines hanging from high altitude balloons, anchored by long tethers. I suppose the tethers were supposed to carry current to the ground, though I'm now struck by the weight of a few miles of high tension copper or aluminum line. As far as staying in the jet stream, It seems like it would be trivial to design a self-steering system like that used for singlehand sailing. If the tether's anchor points were far enough apart, the system could probably swing a few miles north and south and around a hundred degrees or more of the compass, tracking the strongest winds. I think the jet stream shifts hundreds of miles, so I don't know what that would be worth. Anyway it was this kind of big scale extraction that seemed like it could have devastating consequences. Of course you'd need millions of acres of ground level turbines to extract the kind of energy that a wind farm hanging in the jet stream might capture. But I remember reading about this and the proposals to hang big blades in the gulf stream and thinking, Oh Jeez! Another massive engineering project with wildly unpredictable side effects! Taryn http://ornae.com/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Giving up
My experience is to spend more time looking for oil you can work with than trying to crack iffy oil... Brent S wrote: well, I have found a batch of oil that won't sepparate. I have heated it to 220f to make sure there isn't any water in it. It has been at 220f for an hour or so with no boiling. I have titrated it several times with a result of 5. I have made test batches at 5, 7, 8, 9 and 10 grams per litre with no sepparation, just a light brown soup that jells when it cools. the oil itself seams to stay quite thick up to 120-130f. Is there anything that could be in the oil to make it do this? Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo?
FWIW I have algae blooms in some leftover BD I found cleaning up. I left it outside w/ a loose lid for a year... Doug Memering wrote: My company has been doing some testing with regard to shelf life of Biodiesel. This driven mainly by the debate going on between European and North American standards bodies. ASTM 6571 does not address fuel stability, but the European tests for stability will really only pass BD made from Rapeseed. Enough on that though, the question at hand is shelf life. The findings that we have are that BD does more readily oxidize than petrol diesel. So if left in a open container the shelf life is very short. It will still burn after oxidized but not nearly as well. On the other, most of us would be storing our BD in a sealed container, which limits the oxidation to the amount of air and surface area. The best thing to do is to store it in a sealed container that is as full as practically possible. This limits oxidation to a level that probably won't be noticeable. Of course, if you really want to keep it a long time you can displace the air in the container with nitrogen and then it will keep for a long time, this is something of course that only the military would consider. Hope this helps. Doug Memering Keith Addison wrote: Who is putting about mis- or disinfo that biodiesel has a very short shelf-life? We keep getting enquiries from people who seem to think so. Does the biodiesel have a shelf life? Or: I read somewhere that biodesil has a short shelf life. And so on and on and on. Somewhere, hm. Any ideas where this BS is coming from? Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo?
Doug Memering wrote: snip This limits oxidation to a level that probably won't be noticeable. Of course, if you really want to keep it a long time you can displace the air in the container with nitrogen and then it will keep for a long time, this is something of course that only the military would consider. Hope this helps. Doug Memering H, what about displacing air with CO2 instead? This is easily doable even in a home environment. We had a group camping/picnic this weekend, and we bought a couple of beer barrels from a brewery :D. The deal is like this - you buy beer, and it comes in nice stainless steel barrels. You have to return barrels back to the brewery when they are empty... These barels went together with the dispensing equipment, which included the canister of CO2. Thats where I got this idea with CO2 :) -- Tomas Juknevicius ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Biodiesel shelf life - energy extraction
I suspect the mis-information is from dapplers, who do not know the difference between biodiesel, WVO, SVO - as I hear from many people talking. A comment on extracting energy from tides, wind etc: I have thought about the results of energy extraction from earth generated sources. While certainly possible, I think the amount extracted from, say, the Gulf Stream, or Wind, is relatively negligible (I haven't done any calcs on this) You've heard the theory Line up all the cars facing one way and all accelerate at one time to change earth's rotation: Can't be done. Solar Energy will also cause a diminishment of, well, solar energy to the earth surface. It is returned as heat from the operation of the electrical device, motor, or water heat exchanger. The Gulf Stream is a function of many things such as temperature and salinity differentials. It has been suggested that the melting ice caps will cause enough salinity change to cause changes in the gulf stream. So, it could be argued that if extracting energy from the stream reduces CO2 emissions, it would be a lesser evil (?). Obviously, too much of a good thing could be damaging. Regards to all Andy Karpay Who is putting about mis- or disinfo that biodiesel has a very short shelf-life? We keep getting enquiries from people who seem to think so. Does the biodiesel have a shelf life? Or: I read somewhere that biodiesel has a short shelf life. And so on and on and on. Somewhere, hm. Any ideas where this BS is coming from? Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo?
Hey, just drink the beer, add a little bratwurst and baked beans and you have a source of biomethane to displace the air. : -) Tomas Juknevicius wrote: Doug Memering wrote: snip This limits oxidation to a level that probably won't be noticeable. Of course, if you really want to keep it a long time you can displace the air in the container with nitrogen and then it will keep for a long time, this is something of course that only the military would consider. Hope this helps. Doug Memering H, what about displacing air with CO2 instead? This is easily doable even in a home environment. We had a group camping/picnic this weekend, and we bought a couple of beer barrels from a brewery :D. The deal is like this - you buy beer, and it comes in nice stainless steel barrels. You have to return barrels back to the brewery when they are empty... These barels went together with the dispensing equipment, which included the canister of CO2. Thats where I got this idea with CO2 :) -- Tomas Juknevicius ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol in the Philippines - just put it in and go?
Zeke Yewdall wrote: I was trying to theorize on what using a 100% ethanol fuel would be like. From MH's experience, it seems pretty obvious that 10% or even 25% ethanol has no ill effects and could actually run in unmodified gas engine better than 100% gasoline. Thats OK Zeke. I wanted to add to the reply I tried mixing a 20% percent ethanol blend with gasoline for a 1970s lawn mower without adjusting the carburetor jet and the gasoline engine didn't like it so I went back to a 10 percent ethanol blend with gasoline I get from the local fuel stations. As for up to 25 percent ethanol blends with gasoline the University of Minnesota - Mankato said 30 percent. There was a news article posted to the list about this when the governor of Minnesota called for an increase to 20 percent ethanol blends from the current 10 percent ethanol blends with gasoline. Here it is -- Subject: [Biofuel] US Minnesota Fuels Plan Governor Pawlenty Announces Plans to Double Ethanol Level in Gasoline and Reduce State Gasoline Consumption by 50% -- Sep 27, 2004 http://www.governor.state.mn.us/Tpaw_View_Article.asp?artid=1120 A research report from the Minnesota Center for Automotive Research at Minnesota State University -- Mankato showed that there were no drivability or material compatibility problems experienced by 15 vehicles of various years, makes and models using E-30. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol in the Philippines - just put it in and go?
Zeke Yewdall wrote: I was trying to theorize on what using a 100% ethanol fuel would be like. From MH's experience, it seems pretty obvious that 10% or even 25% ethanol has no ill effects and could actually run in unmodified gas engine better than 100% gasoline. Most of the time during the summer months my fuel mileage is a little better using a 10 percent ethanol blend with gasoline but they're times when its similiar to 100% gasoline miles-per-gallon during the summer months. My car is a Geo Metro with computerizied (EFI) Electronic Fuel Injection. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Giving up
Brent S wrote: well, I have found a batch of oil that won't sepparate. I have heated it to 220f to make sure there isn't any water in it. It has been at 220f for an hour or so with no boiling. I have titrated it several times with a result of 5. I have made test batches at 5, 7, 8, 9 and 10 grams per litre with no sepparation, just a light brown soup that jells when it cools. the oil itself seams to stay quite thick up to 120-130f. Is there anything that could be in the oil to make it do this? Brent In a situation like this, I'd probably eliminate variables... Use virgin oil for a test batch, make up a fresh batch of NaOH titration solution, find out if the methanol is pure, the NaOH is still NaOH, not contaminated with CO2 or water, and see if separation happens correctly. doug ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- All generalizations are false. Including this one. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein. All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo?
bob allen wrote: Hey, just drink the beer, add a little bratwurst and baked beans and you have a source of biomethane to displace the air. : -) -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Hey, you got it wrong :) we can just compress this biomethane and use it as a source of fuel. CNG, you know :P Anyway, though lithuanian cuisine is quite simmilar to german one, we prefer to have shashlik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shashlik) with the rice onions ketchup instead of bratwurst or baked beans on our picnics :) PS there are quite a few LPG vehicles in lithuania. CNG are rare though :). After the recent fuel price hikes (1EUR/liter in the country with average monthly salary of 400EUR. Yay) the folks are switching to LPG in droves. -- Tomas Juknevicius ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Giving up
It could be hydrogenated oil of some sort. This makes lousy WVO, because it stay so thick at relatively high temperatures. We just avoid it. On 9/12/05, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My experience is to spend more time looking for oil you can work with than trying to crack iffy oil... Brent S wrote: well, I have found a batch of oil that won't sepparate. I have heated it to 220f to make sure there isn't any water in it. It has been at 220f for an hour or so with no boiling. I have titrated it several times with a result of 5. I have made test batches at 5, 7, 8, 9 and 10 grams per litre with no sepparation, just a light brown soup that jells when it cools. the oil itself seams to stay quite thick up to 120-130f. Is there anything that could be in the oil to make it do this? Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] C-SPAN to co-ops
How about that sunken barge which is holding up New Orleans shipping of grain? I understand that corn is filling up all the elevators and available barges and soybeans are coming in soon. If the repairs can be delayed long enough the low prices might collapse several more coops. This is opportunity for dubya buddies to get rewarded. Who is it that stands to be kicked upstairs here like Mike at FEMA? I wonder who has been awarded the contract to fix this? -- Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: Re: [Biofuel] C-SPAN To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Why is this source so ignored when it produces over 3 gallons for every one expended? I suspect that a analysis of whether more soybean or corn farms are owned by small family operations, or by large mega-farms might shed some like on this. I seem to remember some report that suggested that alot of the opposition to biofuels (presumably biodiesel) was not just because they were an affront to oil companies, but because the majority of production was owned by co-ops rather than industrial farms. The establishment sees the co-op owner ship as being even more of a danger than the alternative fuel. I wish I could remember the details. -- === message truncated === __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol in the Philippines - just put it in and go?
Zeke; Activated alumina or zeolite will remove the water. One source I know of is companies like Kurt J. Lesker, Alcatel, Leybold and Pfeifer who are a supplier for industries that use high vacuum. The material is sold for foreline traps also known as a molecular sieve. The alumina can be baked to remove the water later and reused almost indefinitely. Joe Zeke Yewdall wrote: I wonder if they are using 100% ethanol, or ~95% ethanol (which is what denatured ethanol usually is -- a little gasoline put in to keep you from drinking it), or 95% ethanol/5% water which I understand is the highest purity you can distill it to. At that ratio, it forms a constant boiling mixture, and you can't get it to 100% pure by distillation. Does anyone know how they get the last bit of water out? And whether it would affect the engine if they didn't? It's in solution, so I imagine it would just cause a little more water vapor in the exhaust, and slighly lower mpg. It shouldn't cause freezing, since I've tried to freeze 100 proof vodka, and it stays liquid at -10F, and this woud equivalent to 190 proof. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] wind and current power
I did a tiny proposal to Cal Edison in California back in the 80s on Wind Energy Systems in the Jet Stream to see if they were interested. I had visited their Solar One Site and thought they might like to do something with wind. What would you like to know? Leon L. Hulett, PE [Original Message] From: TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: 9/11/05 9:13:03 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] wind and current power Really? Genuine scam? I read about it in Wired or Pop Sci, figured it was just a master's thesis, or some defense proposal. Taryn http://ornae.com/ On Sep 11, 2005, at 5:57 PM, Mike Weaver wrote: *Yeah, I invested in that. Ponzi scheme. TarynToo wrote: ... I remember some blue sky stuff that proposed wind turbines hanging from high altitude balloons, anchored by long tethers. I suppose the tethers were supposed to carry current to the ground, though I'm now struck by the weight of a few miles of high tension copper or aluminum line. As far as staying in the jet stream, It seems like it would be trivial to design a self-steering system like that used for singlehand sailing. If the tether's anchor points were far enough apart, the system could probably swing a few miles north and south and around a hundred degrees or more of the compass, tracking the strongest winds. I think the jet stream shifts hundreds of miles, so I don't know what that would be worth. Anyway it was this kind of big scale extraction that seemed like it could have devastating consequences. Of course you'd need millions of acres of ground level turbines to extract the kind of energy that a wind farm hanging in the jet stream might capture. But I remember reading about this and the proposals to hang big blades in the gulf stream and thinking, Oh Jeez! Another massive engineering project with wildly unpredictable side effects! Taryn http://ornae.com/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo?
Yes but having to leave the window open costs more fuel than you can make.bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, just drink the beer, add a little bratwurst and baked beans and you have a source of biomethane to displace the air. : -)Tomas Juknevicius wrote: Doug Memering wrote: This limits oxidation to a level that probably won't be noticeable. Ofcourse, if you really want to keep it a long time you can displace the airin the container with nitrogen and then it will keep for a long time, thisis something of course that only the military would consider.Hope this helps.Doug Memering H, what about displacing air with CO2 instead? This is easily doable even in a home environment. We had a group camping/picnic this weekend, and we bought a couple of beer barrels from a brewery :D. The deal is like this - you buy beer, and it comes in nice stainless steel barrels. You have to return barrels back to the brewery when they are empty... These barels went together with the dispensing equipment, which included the canister of CO2. Thats where I got this idea with CO2 :) -- Tomas Juknevicius___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- Bob Allenhttp://ozarker.org/bob"Science is what we have learned about how to keepfrom fooling ourselves" Richard Feynman___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] wind and current power
The jet stream doesn't lay in a river bed like water. It undulates constantly and has seasonal migration. Nor is it pretty much everywhere. Pilots know and use this knowledge. Except for Federal preserves your vacant desert doesn't exist. On the other hand there are projects with a lot of promise. The Skeleton (Swiss company) super capacitor which has been demonstrated has enormous potential. It's recharge time is miniscule compared to lead/acid nor does it need lead for its construction. Also the charge/discharge efficiency is in the high 9's. Enormously better than any secondary cell technology. Also the necessarypowertransformation electronics to use capacitors is also available. A bit less than 30 years ago when I was at JPL we calculated that all the power on the US grid could be generated using 3% efficient solar cells utilizing only the existing power line right of ways as space. The technology is much better than that. If we use 15% which is conservative then we need populate only 20% of the right of way. Thus we see there is plenty of reserve space to accomodate storage and conversion losses and provide 24/7 power just using the sun. The realization that peak oil may not be in the future but is actually now is the only force that will change how we do things. Humans and especially those in the US seem to be impossible to change unless it is a crises. It seems the interesting times are at hand. Don't give solar short shrift. Remember the Hanford Scientist Senator Mike MacCormack was instrumental in the sabotage of solar power. Unfortunately the American public not only doesn't know what he did -- most of them don't care. Unfortunately they will care when it is painful. -- But then it is a bit late. KirkDavid Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: Sometimes engineering proposals are just gee whiz stuff. Just to show that you are capable of thinking outside the box. They don't have to have much to do with practicality. The hazard to air navigation is enough to scuttle this idea let alone the liability considerations of falling stuff. Just try to erect a tower and see the restraints and then imagine what would happen should you decide you want to hang this apparatus several km in the sky. We used to have sayings to describe this -- Such as "Here's a neat idea --Course it's as practical as airbrakes on an ant but still neat". Well, megawatt turbines way up in the sky would qualify as one of these. Neat.You may be dismissing this a little too easily Kirk. Since the jetstream is pretty much everywhere this is something that could be put in the middle of nowhere. It's not hard to imagine such a turbine being "flown" in the middle of the desert, for example, where there isn't anyone for miles around.IIRC, the article in PopSci had motor-generators onboard and they used them as motors to get them up into the jetstream. No balloon necessary.I think the technical problems can be solved. I'm not entirely sure it's a good idea. I'm also much less than sure that it can be an economical source of power.--- David Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Biodiesel verification
Well, i have a question. Is there any way of checking my biodiesel "production". How can I confirm that the stuff I distilled is in fact a fuel. I mean the every method except pouring it into my car's tank and waiting what is going to happen. I will appreciate any advice in a matter. Bestwishes for all of you from Poland Przemyslaw(this is a polish name :) ) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alcohol:Food vs fuel
Dear Manick Here in Brasil we have E95 running and this can be impoted to any country who wish to develop and adopt the same in other country as well as flexivel ethanol and gasoline car We need to come out here in this list here to arrive ata a simple workable design and then there are several university , Ghandhi gram rural university. Madurai south India vice chancellar Dr T.Karunakaran can make it reality as the present central government came to power to suport rural mass. sd Pannirselvam Brazil On 9/12/05, Manick Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Dr.Pannirselvam/Subramaniam, I read that many small scale enterprises are encouraged in India, with tax exemption. If project funding can be arranged somewhere in Chennai or any other suitable place with proper allowances I could come there tohelp outin ethanolof ethanol and wood pyrolysis. Or perhaps as special Institute/ College project where we won't be harassed by petty officials out for quick buck. With engines modified to run on E85 and wood spirit.Once project is finished I'll return to Penang.LOL Manickh subramanian D.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Mr. PanneerSelvam, I've been reading your inputs to this forum quite for sometime and your enthusiasm is really contagious! but there are problems for individuals for producing alcohol. The process is simple enough for small scale (back yard) production which you recommend. raw material such as sweet sorghum and sugar beet can be grown ; the economics of production is well known to those in the field. Special strains of sweet sorghum are available in National Research Institutes in Hyderabad, as well as at Indian Institute of Agricultural Research . But. The moment I announce that I'm going to make my own fuel ( for personal use) half a dozen Govt agencies will raid my place ! Production of ethyl alcohol isnot possible without Govt license (which is not easy to get for an individual), payment of several duties and taxes and bribes on the side. Even if the farmers make alcohol on the sly, on second thoughts they would rather drink it than use for fuel. You know the types in India. On the commercial scale Indian Sugar Mills Assocn have half a million litres of surplus ethanol forE05 in the whole country but then theIndian oil corporation is still dragging its feet issuing purchase tenders for ethanol. So these are the ground realities here. Still I keep hoping it will change in due course. Regards, Subramanian Pannirselvam P.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Manick I am native of South India.It is very true that Malaysia and India,the fuel alcohol can be mis used as the drinks. Brazil , where I live now ,here too are making alcohol for local consume and exportation as the alcoholic drinks and fuel made from sugarcane and fruits as both are the needs In south India where there is always power cut expected more than 30 porcent , locally made distilled home made alcohol, the municipal government can buy and use for transport and power generation. You are showing the real problem of corrupt practice there .Thus local use of ethanol for fuel instead of commercial use can solve the powercut there.This is need decentralised development of municipality.Only private company need to do all , under corrupted some political party not bothered about real problem of energy development. Based on traditional local home made alcohol , India can produce as much as Brazil (2 bilhoes liter of alcohol for food and fuel) and can solve the energy crisis.The farmer need to put light in the night and make plantation in India where as the farmer from USA, France and Europe has government financial help.Manick , surely India and can make possible the home made decentralised bio ethanol that thus make using pot , to put in their small motorised bicycle , thus making them independent to get away the poverty and all corrupted petroleum business , which is the root cause of the poverty, making people dependence on imported fuel that they can not pay. I wish to request Keith to publish via our list members from India about the low cost pot distillation, as this so simple and low cost ,any one can made fuel in their home based on this pot made tradicional alcohol which had made and making making story of so many tragedy and death of alcohol addiction .But this bad story can be made to be real a solution for the energy crysis sdPannirselvam On 9/10/05, Manick Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tq Chris, My reason for posting is to stimulate interestto convince other group members to undertake ethanol and power generation projects.I am not in a position to dothem here in Malaysia or India, countries full of skull-duggering and dangerof losing all the investment due to fraudulent practices by the unscrupulous, without recourse to justice. I could give pages and pages of bad business ethics. It is very bad here which is the main reason this country is in languishing thedoldrums. The best I can do is to convince
[Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft
Hi all,Hi Felipe,Hi Mike Sorry,I have been working abroad for some time now without access to comp and net,so I missed the list. First of all,I deeply respect the efforts,made by the members of the Linux society all over the world,trying to make our life easier and less expensive.Free software is a great thing,and it should be,since so many programmers are working on it to make it more efficient. As to myself,I never pretend to be all-knowing guru and as a mater of fact I am no ashamed to say that a am just user.The comp specialist in my house is my son,he is keeping everything working.I do not have time,nor the possibility to follow all the new stuff coming up,so I feel comfortable with Slackware 10.1 on my comp. Doug,you are right,we should start a Linux BD list and there is at least one reason-to tell all our friends here for the advantages of the free OS`s.But I think it is better this way,giving more members the possibility to touch the idea of freedom in the net.It is close enough to the minds of the biodieselers-to keep the world as clean as possible and to be free to lead the life as everyone prefers. Best wishes to all of you,I am going back to the BD installation I am assembling right now. Rumen Slavov __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alcohol:Food vs fuel
Dear Dr.Pannirselvam Yes, Madurai Ghandigram university will be finewith Dr.T.Karunakaran, if it could be arranged. Cheers Manickh"Pannirselvam P.V" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Manick Here in Brasil we have E95 running and this can be impoted to any country who wish to develop and adopt the same in other country as well as flexivel ethanol and gasoline car We need to come out here in this list here to arrive ata a simple workable design and then there are several university , Ghandhi gram rural university. Madurai south India vice chancellar Dr T.Karunakaran can make it reality as the present central government came to power to suport rural mass.sdPannirselvam Brazil On 9/12/05, Manick Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Dr.Pannirselvam/Subramaniam, I read that many small scale enterprises are encouraged in India, with tax exemption. If project funding can be arranged somewhere in Chennai or any other suitable place with proper allowances I could come there tohelp outin ethanolof ethanol and wood pyrolysis. Or perhaps as special Institute/ College project where we won't be harassed by petty officials out for quick buck. With engines modified to run on E85 and wood spirit.Once project is finished I'll return to Penang.LOL Manickh "subramanian D.V" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Mr. PanneerSelvam, I've been reading your inputs to this forum quite for sometime and your enthusiasm is really contagious! but there are problems for individuals for producing alcohol. The process is simple enough for small scale (back yard) production which you recommend. raw material such as sweet sorghum and sugar beet can be grown ; the economics of production is well known to those in the field. Special strains of sweet sorghum are available in National Research Institutes in Hyderabad, as well as at Indian Institute of Agricultural Research . But. The moment I announce that I'm going to make my own fuel ( for personal use) half a dozen Govt agencies will raid my place ! Production of ethyl alcohol isnot possible without Govt license (which is not easy to get for an individual), payment of several duties and taxes and bribes on the side. Even if the farmers make alcohol on the sly, on second thoughts they would rather drink it than use for fuel. You know the types in India. On the commercial scale Indian Sugar Mills Assocn have half a million litres of surplus ethanol forE05 in the whole country but then theIndian oil corporation is still dragging its feet issuing purchase tenders for ethanol. So these are the ground realities here. Still I keep hoping it will change in due course. Regards, Subramanian "Pannirselvam P.V" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Manick I am native of South India.It is very true that Malaysia and India,the fuel alcohol can be mis used as the drinks. Brazil , where I live now ,here too are making alcohol for local consume and exportation as the alcoholic drinks and fuel made from sugarcane and fruits as both are the needs In south India where there is always power cut expected more than 30 porcent , locally made distilled home made alcohol, the municipal government can buy and use for transport and power generation. You are showing the real problem of corrupt practice there .Thus local use of ethanol for fuel instead of commercial use can solve the powercut there.This is need decentralised development of municipality.Only private company need to do all , under corrupted some political party not bothered about real problem of energy development. Based on traditional local home made alcohol , India can produce as much as Brazil (2 bilhoes liter of alcohol for food and fuel) and can solve the energy crisis.The farmer need to put light in the night and make plantation in India where as the farmer from USA, France and Europe has government financial help.Manick , surely India and can make possible the home made decentralised bio ethanol that thus make using pot , to put in their small motorised bicycle , thus making them independent to get away the poverty and all corrupted petroleum business , which is the root cause of the poverty, making people dependence on imported fuel that they can not pay. I wish to request Keith to publish via our list members from India about the low cost pot distillation, as this so simple and low cost ,any one can made fuel in their home based on this pot made tradicional alcohol which had made and making making story of so many tragedy and death of alcohol addiction .But this bad story can be made to be real a solution for the energy crysis sdPannirselvam On 9/10/05, Manick Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tq Chris, My reason for posting is to stimulate interestto convince other group members to undertake ethanol and power generation projects.I am not in a position to dothem here in Malaysia or India, countries full of skull-duggering and dangerof losing all the investment due to fraudulent practices by the unscrupulous, without recourse to justice. I
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol in the Philippines - just put it in and go?
Hello all. ethanol contains oxygen and will disturb the fuel/air ratio of the fuel. Engines with carburettor have to be adjusted to the proper CO level, since this value is the receipt of a proper combustion. Injected engines with catalytic cleaning usually have a range for adding more fuel to the air/fuel ratio, determined by the amount of O2 in the exhausts. Some systems can adjust to 30% of ethanol in the fuel, others have a thinner adjustment line. A good way of finding out which is to measure the exhaust fumes according to the specifications of the engine manufacturer. Keep up the good job ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 3:32 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol in the Philippines - just put it in and go? I was trying to theorize on what using a 100% ethanol fuel would be like. From MH's experience, it seems pretty obvious that 10% or even 25% ethanol has no ill effects and could actually run in unmodified gas engine better than 100% gasoline. I wanted to add to the reply below. . . Zeke Yewdall wrote: My understanding is that ethanol will run fine in existing gasoline engines. The difference is in compatibility with seals, and ability to vaporize at lower temperatures. It's got a bit higher vapor pressure, so in northern US, it can create hard starting in the wintertime. Having lived in a northern climate (Wisconsin, Minnesota, USA) I found it harder to start my gasoline vehicles when they have water in the gasoline line and it freezes up but now with 10 percent ethanol blended gasoline this has eliminated that problem, thank you. Methanol (HEET) caused some problems for me in my 1946 pickup truck and some of my 1960s and 1970s gasoline vehicles when methanol reacted with the rubber fuel filler hose connection to the fuel tank and carburetor floats. It does have a bit lower energy content per gallon, and higher oxygen content, which could confuse the electronic controls systems that most cars have now. They measure input airflow, and oxygen content in the exhaust, and decide how much fuel can be put in and still assure complete combustion. I don't know if ethanol might mess this up. Older cabureated cars you'd probably just have to reset the jets. Using 10 percent ethanol blended gasoline I've gotten better fuel mileage in the summer with it but less so in the cold winter. My carburetor vehicles worked fine with 10 percent ethanol blended gasoline fuel without adjusting the carburetor jets. The lower energy content per gallon also means that the mpg is a bit less. Somewhere around 10% I think??? If you designed the car to run only on ethanol, then you can typically use a much higher compression ratio (12:1 or so instead of 9:1 or less). This gives you back alot of the performance and mpg losses from using the lower energy content fuel. My use of 10 percent blended gasoline has not decreased my average annual fuel mileage. Its still 48 miles-per-gallon. The rusted front brake rotors did but thats been fixed. As far as seals, I haven't heard anything on ethanol causing seals to degrade, but I may be wrong. Just a few days ago on this listserve, there was a discussion on methanol, and the possibility of high concentrations of it hurting the aluminum and light alloy engines. It seems like if it did have issues with corrosion or rubber degradation, 10% would be enough to cause them, and since most of the winter gas sold in the northern US is 10% ethanol for pollution control, I imagine it doesn't. I haven't noticed any degradation while using 10 percent ethanol. There was a report several years ago done at the University of Minnesota - Mankato that used up to 25 percent ethanol blended gasoline fuel and it worked here in the northern USA climate though I haven't read the details. I also read a report done in the 1940s by the University of Iowa - Ames that also worked well using ethanol blended gasoline fuel in carburetor vehicles. I wonder if they are using 100% ethanol, or ~95% ethanol (which is what denatured ethanol usually is -- a little gasoline put in to keep you from drinking it), or 95% ethanol/5% water which I understand is the highest purity you can distill it to. At that ratio, it forms a constant boiling mixture, and you can't get it to 100% pure by distillation. Does anyone know how they get the last bit of water out? And whether it would affect the engine if they didn't? It's in solution, so I imagine it would just cause a little more water vapor in the exhaust, and slighly lower mpg. It shouldn't cause freezing, since I've tried to freeze 100 proof vodka, and it stays liquid at -10F, and this woud equivalent to 190 proof. Huh, hows 100 proof equivalent to
[Biofuel] Restoring pipeline came first in MS
A story of the white house ordering that power be restored to power substations serving pipeline pumps in Mississippi and take priority over hospitals and water systems. Since when is gasoline diesel delivery 1500+ miles north more important than clean water and hospital care in the hours following a major hurricane? I find this disgusting. The cooperatives restored the power, despite the fact that the federal government has zero authority over an instate power coop like Southern Pine Electric Power. The coop is self-regulated by its board of directors. Power crews diverted Restoring pipeline came first September 11, 2005 By Nikki Davis Maute http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050911/NEWS05/509110304 Shortly after Hurricane Katrina roared through South Mississippi knocking out electricity and communication systems, the White House ordered power restored to a pipeline that sends fuel to the Northeast.That order - to restart two power substations in Collins that serve Colonial Pipeline Co. - delayed efforts by at least 24 hours to restore power to two rural hospitals and a number of water systems in the Pine Belt.At the time, gasoline was in short supply across the country because of Katrina. Prices increased dramatically and lines formed at pumps across the South.I considered it a presidential directive to get those pipelines operating, said Jim Compton, general manager of the South Mississippi Electric Power Association - which distributes power that rural electric cooperatives sell to consumers and businesses.I reluctantly agreed to pull half our transmission line crews off other projects and made getting the transmission lines to the Collins substations a priority, Compton said. Our people were told to work until it was done.They did it in 16 hours, and I consider the effort unprecedented. Katrina slammed into South Mississippi and Southeast Louisiana on Aug. 29, causing widespread devastation and plunging most of the area - including regional medical centers and rural hospitals - into darkness.The storm also knocked out two power substations in Collins, just north of Hattiesburg. The substations were crucial to Atlanta-based Colonial Pipeline, which moves gasoline and diesel fuel from Texas, through Louisiana and Mississippi and up to the Northeast.We were led to believe a national emergency was created when the pipelines were shut down, Compton said.White House callDan Jordan, manager of Southern Pine Electric Power Association, said Vice President Dick Cheney's office called and left voice mails twice shortly after the storm struck, saying the Collins substations needed power restored immediately.Jordan dated the first call the night of Aug. 30 and the second call the morning of Aug. 31. Southern Pine supplies electricity to the substation that powers the Colonial pipeline.Mississippi Public Service Commissioner Mike Callahan said the U.S. Department of Energy called him on Aug. 31. Callahan said department officials said opening the fuel line was a national priority.Cheney's office referred calls about the pipeline to the Department of Homeland Security. Calls there were referred to Kirk Whitworth, who would not take a telephone message and required questions in the form of an e-mail.Susan Castiglione, senior manager of corporate and public affairs with Colonial Pipeline, did not return phone calls.Compton said workers who were trying to restore substations that power two rural hospitals - Stone County Hospital in Wiggins and George County Hospital in Lucedale - worked instead on the Colonial Pipeline project.The move caused power to be restored at least 24 hours later than planned.Mindy Osborn, emergency room coordinator at Stone County Hospital, said the power was not restored until six days after the storm on Sept. 4. She didn't have the number of patients who were hospitalized during the week after the storm.Oh, yes, 24 hours earlier would have been a help, Osborn said.Compton said workers who were trying to restore power to some rural water systems also were taken off their jobs and placed on the Colonial Pipeline project. Compton did not name specific water systems affected.Callahan's visitCallahan is one of three elected public service commissioners who oversee most public utilities in the state. Commissioners, however, have no authority over rural electric power cooperatives.Nevertheless, Callahan said he drove to Compton's office on U.S. 49 North in Hattiesburg to tell him about the call from the Department of Energy. Callahan said he would support whatever decision Compton made.Callahan said energy officials told him gasoline and diesel fuel needed to flow through the pipeline to avert a national crisis from the inability to meet fuel needs in the Northeast.Callahan said the process of getting the pipelines flowing would be difficult and that there was a chance the voltage required to do so would knock out the system - including power to Wesley
Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo?
I can't seem to find it but, I thought that there WAS a recommendation on JtF to store BD for no long than a given time (I won't give the time frame that my memory serves in case I'm wrong) (the same time frame as for storing petro diesel). No? IIRC the NBB etc recommend no more than six months, but they're being overcautious as usual, or maybe it's not overcautious if the fuel is to be subjected to the existing petro-diesel infrastructure. I have some biodiesel I made six years ago that hasn't degraded. Others report 4-year-old biodiesel still being usable. These people keep saying they read somewhere but they don't say where. We've had dozens of them. Best wishes Keith On 9/8/05, Keith Addison mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who is putting about mis- or disinfo that biodiesel has a very short shelf-life? We keep getting enquiries from people who seem to think so. Does the biodiesel have a shelf life? Or: I read somewhere that biodesil has a short shelf life. And so on and on and on. Somewhere, hm. Any ideas where this BS is coming from? Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/http://journeytoforever.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo?
Hello Doug My company has been doing some testing with regard to shelf life of Biodiesel. This driven mainly by the debate going on between European and North American standards bodies. ASTM 6571 does not address fuel stability, but the European tests for stability will really only pass BD made from Rapeseed. Iodine No. 120. National standards for biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield2.html#biodstds Enough on that though, the question at hand is shelf life. The findings that we have are that BD does more readily oxidize than petrol diesel. So if left in a open container the shelf life is very short. How short is very short? It will still burn after oxidized but not nearly as well. On the other, most of us would be storing our BD in a sealed container, which limits the oxidation to the amount of air and surface area. The best thing to do is to store it in a sealed container that is as full as practically possible. This limits oxidation to a level that probably won't be noticeable. Of course, if you really want to keep it a long time you can displace the air in the container with nitrogen and then it will keep for a long time, this is something of course that only the military would consider. Hope this helps. Thankyou. You might find this interesting: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg36963.html Re: [biofuel] Extending storage life of biodiesel Best wishes Keith Doug Memering Keith Addison wrote: Who is putting about mis- or disinfo that biodiesel has a very short shelf-life? We keep getting enquiries from people who seem to think so. Does the biodiesel have a shelf life? Or: I read somewhere that biodesil has a short shelf life. And so on and on and on. Somewhere, hm. Any ideas where this BS is coming from? Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] All plastic processor
Hi JJJN Marty, My first processor was made with PVC pipe. The glue fittings were no problem. The PVC screw fittings consistently became loose and since they were glued to other pipe, could not be tightened. All have been replaced with 304 stainless. Long runs are PEX and ag sprayer suction hose. Have had few problems with nylon barb fittings though they do need occasional tightening. Hope this helps, Bill Clark - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] All plastic processor PVC is rated at 160 psi at 73 deg F. as one (pressure) increases the other (temp) must decrease within limits of a range. thus if one takes PSI to 0 temp can increase to a maximum before deformation. I don't know that point... but I have tested it to 212 deg F with no deformations or glue problems. As far as I know 130 degrees is what BD's maximum is so I think it will be fine, but do some testing on some cheap small dia fittings first. I also like the way PVC holds the heat once it is at temp. luck and wisdom JJJN Marty Phee wrote: PVC will get soft as it's heated. Take this into account. I'm not sure how much heat is required though. I've seen people bend and stretch PVC using steam or propane torch. Also, PVC gives off dioxin when it burns. JJJN wrote: I may be getting in the middle here but FYI I just purchased some 8 Dia. Sch 40 PVC. It holds roughly 2.5 gallons per foot. they make a very nice concentric reducer glue fitting for the bottom that can be threaded to your choice of sizes. The Wall Thickness is heavy enough you can drill and tap side fittings for your pump/gage taps etc. you can get a tee with clean out also. 2 part marine (putty stick) sticks real well to if you prep with sand paper. I am making mine about 10 gallons each and making dual reactors with one wash tub. the pipe is about 5-6 bucks a foot and fittings run about 20 bucks each. Wisdom to all, Jim David Thornton wrote: ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo?
These people keep saying they read somewhere but they don't say where. We've had dozens of them. This citing of an unknown resource has actually been documented (by the movie Outfoxed) as a devious method of presenting opinion or non factual information without violating (at least in the letter of the law) journalistic standards of objectiveness. Fox news is one of the prime users of this although many others are catching on -- it can be reported as news that some people say that biodiesel degrades in two days... and who can dispute that some wacko might have actually said that? In one move you can present whatever garbage you want as news, without technically saying the garbage is true... The unobservant listener or reader doesn't catch this though. I'm guilty of citing sources that I don't really remember quite what they said or who they were too, but ever since I learned about this tactic, I try to be more careful of it. Zeke 'Pardon me, but your cynicism is showing' ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Draft US Defense Paper Outlines Preventive Nuclear Strikes
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0911-02.htm Published on Sunday, September 11, 2005 by Agence France Presse Draft US Defense Paper Outlines Preventive Nuclear Strikes A new draft US defense paper calls for preventive nuclear strikes against state and non-state adversaries in order to deter them from using weapons of mass destruction and urges US troops to prepare to use nuclear weapons effectively. Archive picture of a US nuclear bomb exploding over Nagasaki, Japan, on August 9, 1945. A new draft US defense paper calls for preventive nuclear strikes against state and non-state adversaries in order to deter them from using weapons of mass destruction and urges US troops to 'prepare to use nuclear weapons effectively.' (AFP/File) The document, titled Doctrine for Joint Nuclear Operations and dated March 15, was put together by the Pentagon's Joint Staff in at attempt to adapt current procedures to the fast-changing world after the September 11, 2001, attacks, said a defense official. But the official, who spoke to AFP late Saturday on condition of anonymity, said it has not yet been signed by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and thus has not been made official policy. It's in the process of being considered, the official said. A copy of the draft obtained by AFP urges US theater force commanders operating around the world to prepare specific plans for using nuclear weapons in their regions -- and outlines scenarios, under which it would be justified to seek presidential approval for a nuclear strike. They include an adversary using or planning to use weapons of mass destruction against US or allied forces as well as civilian populations. Preventive nuclear strikes could also be employed to destroy a biological weapons arsenal belonging to an enemy, if there is no possibility to take it out with conventional weapons and it is determined the enemy is poised for a biological attack, according to the draft. They could also be seen as justified to destroy deep, hardened bunkers containing enemy chemical or biological weapons or the command and control infrastructure required to execute a chemical, biological or nuclear attack. However, a number of scenarios allow nuclear strikes without enemy weapons of mass destruction in the equation. They could be used, for instance, to counter potentially overwhelming conventional adversaries, to secure a rapid end of a war on US terms, or simply to ensure success of US and multinational operations, the document indicates. In the context of the US-led war on terror, the draft explicitly warns that any attempt by a hostile power to hand over weapons of mass destruction to militant groups to enable them to strike a devastating blow against the United States will likely trigger a US nuclear response against the culprit. Regional US commanders may request presidential approval to go nuclear to respond to adversary-supplied WMD use by surrogates against US and multinational forces or civilian populations, the draft says. The doctrine also gives the Pentagon the green light to deploy nuclear weapons to parts of the world where their future use is considered the most likely and urges troops to constantly train for nuclear warfare. To maximize deterrence of WMD use, it is essential US forces prepare to use nuclear weapons effectively and that US forces are determined to employ nuclear weapons if necessary to prevent or retaliate against WMD use, the document states. The doctrine surfaced after the US Congress moved over the past several months to revive a controversial weapons research program aimed at enabling the US military to conduct precision nuclear strikes against hardened underground facilities. In separate measures, both the Senate and the House of Representatives approved four million dollars for fiscal 2006 to study the feasibility of the so-called Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator, also known as the bunker-buster bomb, a program that was interrupted last year under intense international and domestic criticism. Moreover, under the 2002 Moscow Treaty, the United States will be able to retain up to 2,200 operationally deployed strategic nuclear warheads all the way through 2012. The doctrine reminds that while first use of nuclear weapons may draw condemnation, no customary or conventional international law prohibits nations from employing nuclear weapons in armed conflict. © Copyright 2005 AFP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Energy Efficiency -- In Asia, Low Fuel Prices And Subsidies Lose Ground
From: ECONOMIC REPORTING REVIEW By Dean Baker September 12, 2005 Energy Efficiency In Asia, Low Fuel Prices And Subsidies Lose Ground Keith Bradsher New York Times, September 7, 2005, Page C5 http://err.c.topica.com/maadYiMabkeXubnpHI6baeQBpp/ This article reports on how several Asian countries are responding to rising world oil prices in setting the domestic price of gasoline. At one point the article asserts that China and India have startling inefficiency in their use of energy, claiming that they consume five times as much energy as Japan to produce a dollar of GDP. Actually, the problem is with the measurement of GDP. The article is referring to a currency conversion measure of GDP, in which the GDP of China and India is calculated in each country's currency, and then converted into dollars at the official exchange rate. Most economists would use a purchasing power parity measure of GDP, which attempts to apply the same set of prices to goods and services produced everywhere in the world. By this measure, China and India's GDP would be 4-5 times as large as with the currency conversion measure. Using the correct measure of GDP neither country stands out as being especially inefficient users of energy. In fact, both are more efficient than the United States. Dean Baker is the Co-Director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research. http://www.cepr.net/pages/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Sucker's Bets for the New Century
http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2005/09/planet_new_orleans.html Sucker's Bets for the New Century Commentary: The U.S. After Katrina By Bill McKibben September 7, 2005 If the images of skyscrapers collapsed in heaps of ash were the end of one story -- the U.S. safe on its isolated continent from the turmoil of the world -- then the picture of the sodden Superdome with its peeling roof marks the beginning of the next story, the one that will dominate our politics in the coming decades of this century: America befuddled about how to cope with a planet suddenly turned unstable and unpredictable. Over and over last week, people said that the scenes from the convention center, the highway overpasses, and the other suddenly infamous Crescent City venues didn't look like America, that they seemed instead to be straight from the Third World. That was almost literally accurate, for poor, black New Orleans (whose life had never previously been of any interest to the larger public) is not so different from other poor and black parts of the world: its infant mortality and life expectancy rates, its educational achievement statistics mirroring scores of African and Latin American enclaves. But it was accurate in another way, too, one full of portent for the future. A decade ago, environmental researcher Norman Myers began trying to add up the number of humans at risk of losing their homes from global warming. He looked at all the obvious places -- coastal China, India, Bangladesh, the tiny island states of the Pacific and Indian oceans, the Nile delta, Mozambique, on and on -- and predicted that by 2050 it was entirely possible that 150 million people could be environmental refugees, forced from their homes by rising waters. That's more than the number of political refugees sent scurrying by the bloody century we've just endured. Try to imagine, that is, the chaos that attends busing 15,000 people from one football stadium to another in the richest nation on Earth, and then multiply it by four orders of magnitude and re-situate your thoughts in the poorest nations on earth. And then try to imagine doing it over and over again -- probably without the buses. Because so far, even as blogs and websites all over the Internet fill with accusations about the scandalous lack of planning that led to the collapse of the levees in New Orleans, almost no one is addressing the much larger problems: the scandalous lack of planning that has kept us from even beginning to address climate change, and the sad fact that global warming means the future will be full of just this kind of horror. Consider the first problem for just a minute. No single hurricane is the result of global warming. But a month before Katrina hit, MIT hurricane specialist Kerry Emmanuel published a landmark paper in the British science magazine Nature showing that tropical storms were now lasting half again as long and spinning winds 50% more powerful than just a few decades before. The only plausible cause: the ever-warmer tropical seas on which these storms thrive. Katrina, a Category 1 storm when it crossed Florida, roared to full life in the abnormally hot water of the Gulf of Mexico. It then punched its way into Louisiana and Mississippi -- the latter a state now governed by Haley Barbour, who in an earlier incarnation as a GOP power broker and energy lobbyist helped persuade President Bush to renege on his promise to treat carbon dioxide as a pollutant. So far the U.S. has done exactly nothing even to try to slow the progress of climate change: We're emitting far more carbon than we were in 1988, when scientists issued their first prescient global-warming warnings. Even if, at that moment, we'd started doing all that we could to overhaul our energy economy, we'd probably still be stuck with the 1 degree Fahrenheit increase in global average temperature that's already driving our current disruptions. Now scientists predict that without truly dramatic change in the very near future, we're likely to see the planet's mercury rise five degrees before this century is out. That is, five times more than we've seen so far. Which leads us to the second problem: For the ten thousand years of human civilization, we've relied on the planet's basic physical stability. Sure, there have been hurricanes and droughts and volcanoes and tsunamis, but averaged out across the Earth, it's been a remarkably stable run. If your grandparents inhabited a particular island, chances were that you could too. If you could grow corn in your field, you could pretty much count on your grandkids being able to do likewise. Those are now sucker's bets -- that's what those predictions about environmental refugees really mean. Here's another way of saying it: In the last century, we've seen change in human societies speed up to an almost unimaginable level, one that has stressed every part of our
Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo?
From everybody's *favorite* online source: http://www.biodiesel.org/markets/mar/default.asp in tests performed by the University of Idaho, biodiesel in an aqueous solution after 28 days was 95 percent degraded. Diesel fuel was only 40 percent degraded. In a second study done in an aquatic environment (CO2 Evolution), various biodiesel products were 85.5-88.5 percent degraded in 28 days, which is the same rate as sugar (dextrose). Diesel degradation was 26.24 percent. Zeke Yewdall wrote: These people keep saying they read somewhere but they don't say where. We've had dozens of them. This citing of an unknown resource has actually been documented (by the movie Outfoxed) as a devious method of presenting opinion or non factual information without violating (at least in the letter of the law) journalistic standards of objectiveness. Fox news is one of the prime users of this although many others are catching on -- it can be reported as news that some people say that biodiesel degrades in two days... and who can dispute that some wacko might have actually said that? In one move you can present whatever garbage you want as news, without technically saying the garbage is true... The unobservant listener or reader doesn't catch this though. I'm guilty of citing sources that I don't really remember quite what they said or who they were too, but ever since I learned about this tactic, I try to be more careful of it. Zeke 'Pardon me, but your cynicism is showing' ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Draft US Defense Paper Outlines Preventive Nuclear Strikes
Keith Addison wrote: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0911-02.htm Published on Sunday, September 11, 2005 by Agence France Presse Draft US Defense Paper Outlines Preventive Nuclear Strikes Don't say I didn't warn you! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush: What didn't go right?
It also is related to a vote by slightly more than half of us - or at least slightly more than half of those whose votes were recorded. I remember in the wake of the election people saying "Why can't you let it go and come together behind the president? What are you so afraid will happen?" Well, look around. This was not just about a difference in ideology. It's about a frat boy who never grew up who was drafted for a job that was way to big for him by a group who wanted him solely because they could control him and get what they wanted from the federal government in terms of changes in regulations and consideration for the energy industry. The blind promoted by the self centered and short sighted. It will take years and the efforts of both parties to recover from this stupid power grab. Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the answer to that question goes all the way back to a certain dec. 12, 2000 supreme court decision. . . . -chris b. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Using stored co2 energy (was: Shooting Down the Breeze)
chris l., i assure you i was not mistaken. wiring down the cork is no guarantee. even if it holds the cork, the bottle itself might explode. sparkling wines can be made by a number of methods. the more refined of which rely either upon very precise control of sugar content (so that at final bottling just enough remains to fuel a secondary fermentation that ends before pressure becomes too great), or an inocculation of sugar/syrup (after fermentation has ceased and all yeast has settled and been racked out) which the enzynes remaining in suspension will convert to alcohol and co2. cheers, -chris b. In a message dated 9/10/05 5:46:32 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Chris lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hey! i just remembered, homebrew champagne makers are cautioned to make sure that all yeast has been killed before finla bottling, lest continued fermentation generate so much pressure that it pops the cork. That cannot be right as to do so would leave you with flat champagne, you need the secondary fermentation to make any wine/beer fizzy. Champagne bottles have their corks wired on anyway. Chris. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] wind and current power
On Sep 12, 2005, at 11:07 AM, Leon Hulett wrote: I did a tiny proposal to Cal Edison in California back in the 80s on Wind Energy Systems in the Jet Stream to see if they were interested. I had visited their Solar One Site and thought they might like to do something with wind. What would you like to know? Well...uh...everything, really. But the prevailing wisdom was that Victorian scientists were the last individuals able to encompass all of human knowledge. Kind of eurocentric racism, I 'spose. As far as high altitude wind power extraction, we'd probably all like to hear as much as you're willing to tell. Can the proposal or elements of it be made public? I suspect JTF would be happy to host anything on the subject that stands up to scrutiny. Taryn http://ornae.com/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
