[Biofuel] bd in furnace and engines
Hi All, What is the word on using straight bd in a Beckett oil burner? This is a new unit only having burned a few gallons of petro diesel to test it so it is basically a "virgin'. BTW this is a backup unit on my Tarm wood fired boiler. Also has anyone had any issues with the solvent action in a petro diesel engine cleaningthe gunk off the inside of the motor and having it plug up vital item ie: injectors etc.? Once the bd gets past your fuel filter itany degunked stuff is free to pass through the motor unfilterd Thanks in advance Andrew Leven ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol
Dear Mr. Provost: Many thanks. Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Ken Provost To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol On Nov 17, 2005, at 4:19 AM, francisco j burgos wrote: The melting point for tallow is ca 40.5ºC (104,9ºF) so I thought that 50ºC (122ºC) for reaction would be effective, please comment. Start at 50 just to get everything into solution, but then let it cool down -- separation takes a long time, and cooler temperatures assist the process. Do check out the JtoF pages on ethyl esters -- the details are quite different than for methyl esters. -K ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
David, Thanks for the correction of air intake. Agreed, it would be good to look at the beast. Can the anecdotes can be believed ? And, is the concept for real? Bob Adams Bob Adams - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 7:04 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power William Adams wrote: Interesting calculation, and good for back-of-the-envelope stuff. I just wanted to point out that an 1800 RPM 10 liter engine will consume 150 liters of air/second, not 300 since it only takes in air every other stroke. That's assuming a 4 stroke engine, of course:) In fact, that's the maximum, assuming 100% volumetric efficiency. For envelope stuff 80% is probably closer, so we'd be looking at something more like 4.8 mL of water. Interesting numbers though. I wonder what % H2 they really use. As I mentioned earlier, I'd love to see the electrolyzer:) --- David Hi Greg, On water consumption, some order of magnitude, back of an envelope, calculations can be done (don't look for precision, I'm making several assumptions). A 10 liter diesel engine at 1800 rpm will consume (no turbo) 300 liters of air per second. If significant enhancement of performance requires 5% H2 in the intake airstream, the H2 production rate must be 15 liters/second (.05 x 300 liters). This represents 0.67 moles H2, (one mole H2 is 22.4 liters). Electrolylsis of one mole of H2O (18 ml) yields one mole of H2. In one hour of operation at 1800 rpm the engine will consume 2,412 moles of H2 (54,029 liters of H2 gas). To produce this volume of H2 gas will require electrolysis of 43.4 liters of water (about 11.5 gallons) per hour, or about 260 liters on a typical 6 hour run. Another aspect has to do with the amount of electrical energy needed to transform, per second, 12 cc of liquid water to 15 liters of H2 gas. I leave that, and the associated efficiency losses to others. I make no judgment about the overall efficiency, efficacy or worthiness of this technique. As to whether it works or not, as Hakan might say, puede que si, o puede que no. Cheers, Bob, West Linn, OR - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power I have been wondering what the rate of water usage is. Greg H. - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 19:37 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power This process does not violate thermodynamics, and may POSSIBLY result in a small improvement in overall efficiency. A minor improvement in thermal efficiency using a 5% hydrogen supplement has been documented by scientists as renown as Sir Harry Ricardo. This is because hydrogen acts to speed up combustion, and gases that would otherwise continue to expand through the engine's exhaust port and manifold are hurried into producing work while still in the chamber. Now, whether or not this results in a net efficiency gain depends on how efficient the onboard electrolytic device happens to be. I have built several electrolyzers and I'm skeptical, particularly when I read the hype written into this article. A ten liter truck engine inhales an AWFUL lot of air, particularly under boost, so that electrolyzer would have to put out a fairly significant volume of hydrogen to make a difference. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list
Re: [Biofuel] bd in furnace and engines
As to your second question, fuel flows one way, so it will not pick up gunk from the inside of the motor. I have found if you are running BD in an old diesel with a few hundred thousand miles on it you will need to change your fuel filter as the BD will loosen up the junk in your tank and perhaps in the fuel delivery system. The filter will catch anything. Bear in mind you are not talking about chunky particles, but rather somewhat gummy stuff - ever take a fuel tank out? The only way you will hit chunks or big particles is if you have rust in the tank, and this almost always only occurs if the vehicle has been sitting for a long time. Andrew Leven wrote: Hi All, What is the word on using straight bd in a Beckett oil burner? This is a new unit only having burned a few gallons of petro diesel to test it so it is basically a virgin'. BTW this is a backup unit on my Tarm wood fired boiler. Also has anyone had any issues with the solvent action in a petro diesel engine cleaning the gunk off the inside of the motor and having it plug up vital item ie: injectors etc.? Once the bd gets past your fuel filter it any degunked stuff is free to pass through the motor unfilterd Thanks in advance Andrew Leven ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
I'm in Waterloo, still a bit of a drive form bowmanville. There was this kid in line at lunch ahead of me this summer who was talking about HFI with his buddy. Apparently he did a coop work term there. I bet if I check with the mech eng boys I can find someone if not that same guy. Sometimes these guys are sworn to secrecy about thier coop terms but it is amazing what they discuss at the pub!! We also have an alternative fuels group here at UW but they are about ethanol. Still they may know something. If I get a chance I 'll poke around Joe Darryl McMahon wrote: According to the CHEC website (http://www.chechfi.ca/), the unit uses 4 litres of distilled water in 12,000 km. I'm as much a hydrogen skeptic as anyone, but I would like to see someone investigate this further. The company is in Bowmanville, ON. I'm about 400 km away. I know there are list members closer than that. Anyone up for a visit to check them out. I have corresponded in the past with Steve Gilchrist (when he was Commissioner of Alternate Energy for Ontario), and I believe he is for real. That doesn't mean I am convinced that this technology works. However, I think they present enough credible information that it bears checking out. Darryl McMahon Zeke Yewdall wrote: H. Well, considering that they go through 100 gallons of diesel fuel in an 8 hour day, and water (even clean water) is way more plentiful than diesel), that actually doesn't seem that bad if it allows saving maybe 5% of the diesel fuel. How many gallons of water would it take to grow the 5 gallons of biodiesel? Of course, saving the 5 gallons of diesel is the part that I'm not sure I believe. On 11/17/05, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks. Over 90 gal of water in a 8 hr day. The water has to be pure or deposits will form. The waste of purifying water takes at least two forms, waste water full of salts and/or heat. Again, H2 sounds nice, but, proves to be fake. Greg H. - Original Message - From: "William Adams" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 23:50 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power Hi Greg, On water consumption, some order of magnitude, back of an envelope, calculations can be done (don't look for precision, I'm making several assumptions). A 10 liter diesel engine at 1800 rpm will consume (no turbo) 300 liters of air per second. If significant enhancement of performance requires 5% H2 in the intake airstream, the H2 production rate must be 15 liters/second (.05 x 300 liters). This represents 0.67 moles H2, (one mole H2 is 22.4 liters). Electrolylsis of one mole of H2O (18 ml) yields one mole of H2. In one hour of operation at 1800 rpm the engine will consume 2,412 moles of H2 (54,029 liters of H2 gas). To produce this volume of H2 gas will require electrolysis of 43.4 liters of water (about 11.5 gallons) per hour, or about 260 liters on a typical 6 hour run. Another aspect has to do with the amount of electrical energy needed to transform, per second, 12 cc of liquid water to 15 liters of H2 gas. I leave that, and the associated efficiency losses to others. I make no judgment about the overall efficiency, efficacy or worthiness of this technique. As to whether it works or not, as Hakan might say, puede que si, o puede que no. Cheers, Bob, West Linn, OR - Original Message - From: "Greg and April" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power I have been wondering what the rate of water usage is. Greg H. - Original Message - From: "robert luis rabello" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 19:37 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power This process does not violate thermodynamics, and may POSSIBLY result in a small improvement in overall efficiency. A minor improvement in thermal efficiency using a 5% hydrogen supplement has been documented by scientists as renown as Sir Harry Ricardo. This is because hydrogen acts to speed up combustion, and gases that would otherwise continue to expand through the engine's exhaust port and manifold are "hurried" into producing work while still in the chamber. Now, whether or not this results in a net efficiency gain depends on how efficient the onboard electrolytic device happens to be. I have built several electrolyzers and I'm skeptical, particularly when I read the hype written into this article. A ten liter truck engine inhales an
Re: [Biofuel] bd in furnace and engines Andrew
Another link for the furnace [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike Weaver wrote: Hi Andrew, this has been covered extensively at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Have a look. The short answer is yes, but you should search the archives. Andrew Leven wrote: Hi All, What is the word on using straight bd in a Beckett oil burner? This is a new unit only having burned a few gallons of petro diesel to test it so it is basically a virgin'. BTW this is a backup unit on my Tarm wood fired boiler. Also has anyone had any issues with the solvent action in a petro diesel engine cleaning the gunk off the inside of the motor and having it plug up vital item ie: injectors etc.? Once the bd gets past your fuel filter it any degunked stuff is free to pass through the motor unfilterd Thanks in advance Andrew Leven ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] bd in furnace and engines
Hi Andrew, this has been covered extensively at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Have a look. The short answer is yes, but you should search the archives. Andrew Leven wrote: Hi All, What is the word on using straight bd in a Beckett oil burner? This is a new unit only having burned a few gallons of petro diesel to test it so it is basically a virgin'. BTW this is a backup unit on my Tarm wood fired boiler. Also has anyone had any issues with the solvent action in a petro diesel engine cleaning the gunk off the inside of the motor and having it plug up vital item ie: injectors etc.? Once the bd gets past your fuel filter it any degunked stuff is free to pass through the motor unfilterd Thanks in advance Andrew Leven ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
But don't those heavy trucks use two stroke diesels? I thought the serious big diesels were always running on a two stroke cycle? Joe William Adams wrote: David, Thanks for the correction of air intake. Agreed, it would be good to look at the beast. Can the anecdotes can be believed ? And, is the concept for real? Bob Adams Bob Adams - Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 7:04 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power William Adams wrote: Interesting calculation, and good for back-of-the-envelope stuff. I just wanted to point out that an 1800 RPM 10 liter engine will consume 150 liters of air/second, not 300 since it only takes in air every other stroke. That's assuming a 4 stroke engine, of course:) In fact, that's the maximum, assuming 100% volumetric efficiency. For envelope stuff 80% is probably closer, so we'd be looking at something more like 4.8 mL of water. Interesting numbers though. I wonder what % H2 they really use. As I mentioned earlier, I'd love to see the electrolyzer:) --- David Hi Greg, On water consumption, some order of magnitude, back of an envelope, calculations can be done (don't look for precision, I'm making several assumptions). A 10 liter diesel engine at 1800 rpm will consume (no turbo) 300 liters of air per second. If significant enhancement of performance requires 5% H2 in the intake airstream, the H2 production rate must be 15 liters/second (.05 x 300 liters). This represents 0.67 moles H2, (one mole H2 is 22.4 liters). Electrolylsis of one mole of H2O (18 ml) yields one mole of H2. In one hour of operation at 1800 rpm the engine will consume 2,412 moles of H2 (54,029 liters of H2 gas). To produce this volume of H2 gas will require electrolysis of 43.4 liters of water (about 11.5 gallons) per hour, or about 260 liters on a typical 6 hour run. Another aspect has to do with the amount of electrical energy needed to transform, per second, 12 cc of liquid water to 15 liters of H2 gas. I leave that, and the associated efficiency losses to others. I make no judgment about the overall efficiency, efficacy or worthiness of this technique. As to whether it works or not, as Hakan might say, puede que si, o puede que no. Cheers, Bob, West Linn, OR - Original Message - From: "Greg and April" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power I have been wondering what the rate of water usage is. Greg H. - Original Message - From: "robert luis rabello" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 19:37 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power This process does not violate thermodynamics, and may POSSIBLY result in a small improvement in overall efficiency. A minor improvement in thermal efficiency using a 5% hydrogen supplement has been documented by scientists as renown as Sir Harry Ricardo. This is because hydrogen acts to speed up combustion, and gases that would otherwise continue to expand through the engine's exhaust port and manifold are "hurried" into producing work while still in the chamber. Now, whether or not this results in a net efficiency gain depends on how efficient the onboard electrolytic device happens to be. I have built several electrolyzers and I'm skeptical, particularly when I read the hype written into this article. A ten liter truck engine inhales an AWFUL lot of air, particularly under boost, so that electrolyzer would have to put out a fairly significant volume of hydrogen to make a difference. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
[Biofuel] Temp for BD reaction
Hello to all, It never occured to me totest the temp gauge before I installed them in mybiodiesel processor. I've been using a temp gauge that I bought at an auto supply store.After making several batches of quality BDI decided to test it to see how accurate it was.I was surprised to find that it was off by almost 20F. I thought I was running the reaction at 135F, but it was actually closer to 155F. The people at the store were surprised by the discrepancy and gave me another gauge. It was also off by almost 20F. Ibought another gauge online that is easier to read, was about half the price, and tested prior to tee-ing it into my processor, ismuch more accurate than the one from the auto parts store. I'm back to tweaking the process. I've had successs running 75L batches at whatturned out to be155F for 2+hrs. Hopefully the same quality can be achieved at a lower temp. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Temp for BD reaction
I believe 140 is the max...I bought an electronic one with a probe at Target for 20.00 it works fine. Thomas Kelly wrote: Hello to all, It never occured to me to test the temp gauge before I installed them in my biodiesel processor. I've been using a temp gauge that I bought at an auto supply store. After making several batches of quality BD I decided to test it to see how accurate it was. I was surprised to find that it was off by almost 20F. I thought I was running the reaction at 135F, but it was actually closer to 155F. The people at the store were surprised by the discrepancy and gave me another gauge. It was also off by almost 20F. I bought another gauge online that is easier to read, was about half the price, and tested prior to tee-ing it into my processor, is much more accurate than the one from the auto parts store. I'm back to tweaking the process. I've had successs running 75L batches at what turned out to be 155F for 2+hrs. Hopefully the same quality can be achieved at a lower temp. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Temp for BD reaction
I use a single 220 element in my processor but run it on 110 volt supply. It is slow to heat. I usually turn it on and heat till it reaches about 150, and then turn the heat but off but continue mixing for an hour as it. Mike Weaver wrote: I believe 140 is the max...I bought an electronic one with a probe at Target for 20.00 it works fine. Thomas Kelly wrote: Hello to all, It never occured to me to test the temp gauge before I installed them in my biodiesel processor. I've been using a temp gauge that I bought at an auto supply store. After making several batches of quality BD I decided to test it to see how accurate it was. I was surprised to find that it was off by almost 20F. I thought I was running the reaction at 135F, but it was actually closer to 155F. The people at the store were surprised by the discrepancy and gave me another gauge. It was also off by almost 20F. I bought another gauge online that is easier to read, was about half the price, and tested prior to tee-ing it into my processor, is much more accurate than the one from the auto parts store. I'm back to tweaking the process. I've had successs running 75L batches at what turned out to be 155F for 2+hrs. Hopefully the same quality can be achieved at a lower temp. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Temp for BD reaction
I heat in a seperate tank then transfer to the mixing tank while the oil is warm. I use a propane heater from a turkey deep fryer. Very fast heating. bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I use a single 220 element in my processor but run it on 110 volt supply. It is slow to heat. I usually turn it on and heat till it reaches about 150, and then turn the heat but off but continue mixing for an hour as it.Mike Weaver wrote: I believe 140 is the max...I bought an electronic one with a probe at Target for 20.00 it works fine. Thomas Kelly wrote: Hello to all, It never occured to me to test the temp gauge before I installed them in my biodiesel processor. I've been using a temp gauge that I bought at an auto supply store. After making several batches of quality BD I decided to test it to see how accurate it was. I was surprised to find that it was off by almost 20F. I thought I was running the reaction at 135F, but it was actually closer to 155F. The people at the store were surprised by the discrepancy and gave me another gauge. It was also off by almost 20F. I bought another gauge online that is easier to read, was about half the price, and tested prior to tee-ing it into my processor, is much more accurate than the one from the auto parts store. I'm back to tweaking the process. I've had successs running 75L batches at what turned out to be 155F for 2+hrs. Hopefully the same quality can be achieved at a lower temp. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- Bob Allenhttp://ozarker.org/bob"Science is what we have learned about how to keepfrom fooling ourselves" Richard Feynman___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
William Adams wrote: David, Thanks for the correction of air intake. Agreed, it would be good to look at the beast. Can the anecdotes can be believed ? And, is the concept for real? The concept of supplemental hydrogen injection IS a valid one. Whether or not this can be accomplished with any real gains in power and fuel economy using an onboard electrolyzer makes me very skeptical. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
Joe Street wrote: But don't those heavy trucks use two stroke diesels? I thought the serious big diesels were always running on a two stroke cycle? No. The big 10 liter CATs, Cummins, Detroits and Volvos in modern Class 8 trucks are 4 stroke turbo diesels. I used to run a truck / trailer repair shop for my father-in-law, and those engines are very impressive for what they do. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Temp for BD reaction
Bob, When do you add the methoxide? You wrote: I use a single 220 element in my processor but run it on 110 volt supply. It is slow to heat. I usually turn it on and heat till it reaches about 150, and then turn the heat but off but continue mixing for an hour as it. I have been adding methoxide after the oil reaches the desired reaction temp and then processing for 2+ hrs. Would you anticipate any problems with adding the methoxide to the sealed reaction tank at cooler temps (I preheat oil to about 110F). The reaction would begin, although slowly, and continue while temp rises. Does heating to 150F allow the reaction to continue in the desired direction even though much of the oil and methanol have already eacted - BD and glycerine? Tom - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Temp for BD reaction I use a single 220 element in my processor but run it on 110 volt supply. It is slow to heat. I usually turn it on and heat till it reaches about 150, and then turn the heat but off but continue mixing for an hour as it. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone
while we are on this thread, might we wander back a few months to a related issue? That is the claim that addition of small amounts of acetone to both compression and spark ignition engines would result in dramatic increases in fuel efficiency, as much as 35 % increases claimed by some. http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/ Anybody have any well-controlled results to report? robert luis rabello wrote: William Adams wrote: David, Thanks for the correction of air intake. Agreed, it would be good to look at the beast. Can the anecdotes can be believed ? And, is the concept for real? The concept of supplemental hydrogen injection IS a valid one. Whether or not this can be accomplished with any real gains in power and fuel economy using an onboard electrolyzer makes me very skeptical. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Temp for BD reaction
Howdy Tom, it doesn't seem to matter. I have preheated the oil before addition of the methoxide, and added the methoxide to the oil before heating the mixture- it works either way. My usual routine is to turn on the heat and while the oil is heating, mix and add my methoxide, bring the mixture up to about 150, turn off the heat but continue mixing for about an hour, then turn off the pump and let it set overnight. I take it to about 150 simply because that is about as hot as it will get, without boiling the methanol. Thomas Kelly wrote: Bob, When do you add the methoxide? You wrote: I use a single 220 element in my processor but run it on 110 volt supply. It is slow to heat. I usually turn it on and heat till it reaches about 150, and then turn the heat but off but continue mixing for an hour as it. I have been adding methoxide after the oil reaches the desired reaction temp and then processing for 2+ hrs. Would you anticipate any problems with adding the methoxide to the sealed reaction tank at cooler temps (I preheat oil to about 110F). The reaction would begin, although slowly, and continue while temp rises. Does heating to 150F allow the reaction to continue in the desired direction even though much of the oil and methanol have already eacted - BD and glycerine? Tom - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Temp for BD reaction I use a single 220 element in my processor but run it on 110 volt supply. It is slow to heat. I usually turn it on and heat till it reaches about 150, and then turn the heat but off but continue mixing for an hour as it. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone
Hi, Yes I was wondering about the acetone experiments also. As far as I know a few people on 2 or 3 other lists were going to document their experiments. Anybody hear of any updates? tallex Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ---Original Message--- From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone Sent: 18 Nov '05 20:47 while we are on this thread, might we wander back a few months to a related issue? That is the claim that addition of small amounts of acetone to both compression and spark ignition engines would result in dramatic increases in fuel efficiency, as much as 35 % increases claimed by some. http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/ Anybody have any well-controlled results to report? robert luis rabello wrote: William Adams wrote: David, Thanks for the correction of air intake. Agreed, it would be good to look at the beast. Can the anecdotes can be believed ? And, is the concept for real? The concept of supplemental hydrogen injection IS a valid one. Whether or not this can be accomplished with any real gains in power and fuel economy using an onboard electrolyzer makes me very skeptical. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] HAARP adding 132 transmitters
"[1]HAARP (the High frequency Active Auroral ResearchProgram) will be [2]adding 132 more transmitters to bring their totalnumber of transmitters to 180. "When the massive planar array forionospheric research is completed in 2007, it will include a total of 180Continental Electronics D616G 10-kW combined transmitters, which thecompany is upgrading specifically for HAARP," the supplier (Continental)stated. The facility is near Gakona, Alaska. The installation began in1993 with 18 transmitters, expanded to 48 in 1998 and will grow to 180transmitters. The final expansion will bring the HAARP array to fullpower, with ERP increasing from 84 dBW to about 96 dBW. 96dBW is about 4billion Watts. There is [3]speculation that the project is really an"effort to develop ways to jam the electronics of incoming missiles fromRussia and/or China". 4 billion Watts oughtta do it."Discuss this story at: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=05/11/17/0047235Links: 0. http://dxlogbook.gentoo.net?account=mikew 1. http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/ 2. http://www.rwonline.com/dailynews/one.php?id=8046 3. http://futureofradio.typepad.com/the_future_of_radio/2005/11/haarp_adds_132_.html Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] bd in furnace and engines
I use one for casting alumium and have burned a20-30 gallonsof Bio-diesel through it. Ifit isn't really clean then the flame eye gets sooted overin less then 5 min and you have to shut down and clean it, but if the fuel is good it will run a long time.Also I've been selling BD to a Diving company who uses it in their hot water heaters. They haveused about200-300 gallonsin one of their machines and no problems. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Andrew Leven To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:46 PM Subject: [Biofuel] bd in furnace and engines Hi All, What is the word on using straight bd in a Beckett oil burner? This is a new unit only having burned a few gallons of petro diesel to test it so it is basically a "virgin'. BTW this is a backup unit on my Tarm wood fired boiler. Also has anyone had any issues with the solvent action in a petro diesel engine cleaningthe gunk off the inside of the motor and having it plug up vital item ie: injectors etc.? Once the bd gets past your fuel filter itany degunked stuff is free to pass through the motor unfilterd Thanks in advance Andrew Leven ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] mixing oil
Hello People, I got different kinds of providers of oil (virgin Oil, waste oil, and animal tallow) I was wondering whether I could make one big mix and process it together. Of course, doing the right titration process and filtering the waste oil and animal tallow. could it be done? Thanks Juan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
William Adams wrote: David, Thanks for the correction of air intake. Agreed, it would be good to look at the beast. Can the anecdotes can be believed ? And, is the concept for real? Let's try putting a couple of things together here Darryl says: According to the CHEC website (http://www.chechfi.ca/), the unit uses 4 litres of distilled water in 12,000 km. You calculated that 12 cc of liquid water electrolyzes to 15 liters of H2 gas. I figured that a 10 liter engine at 1800 RPM uses ~120 liters of air/second. If we assume 100 km/hr driving speed that's 4 liters of water in 120 hours, or 1 liter in 30 hours. In 30 hours of driving we have 30 * 60 min/hr * 60 sec/min = 10800 seconds. 10800 seconds * 120 liters/sec = 1296000 liters of air. 1 liter water * 15 liters H2/.012 liters water = 1250 liters H2. 1250 liters/H2 / 1296000 air = .09% H2 by volume. That H2 would seem to be pretty potent stuff if .09% of it can increase the efficiency of the engine by a net 10%. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
The water may be more plentiful, but, it still takes up volume and mass. 1 gal of water weighs about 8.35 lbs. and takes up 231 cubic inches So 90 gal weighs over 750 lbs and takes up over 12 cubic ft. That's a lot, of extra weight and volume being taken up. I can't help but wonder if the water is being doped with alcohol - it would increase the amount of H2 per unit of liquid, and IIRC, increases conductivity of the water, not to mention decreasing the temperature of freezing solid. Can anyone confirm the effects of electricity through alcohol? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 16:31 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power H. Well, considering that they go through 100 gallons of diesel fuel in an 8 hour day, and water (even clean water) is way more plentiful than diesel), that actually doesn't seem that bad if it allows saving maybe 5% of the diesel fuel. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] bd in furnace and engines
I don't know how much this will tell you, but after running nothing but B20 (the best I could do in the S. Raleigh area) for a year /15K in an '83 Mercedes 300TD, the only problem I've had is a clogged fuel tank. I had the injectors tested / cleaned then, and they were found to be in perfect condition. The engine performance improves with BD which became very obvious when 'Handy Hugos' stopped selling B20 and I went to petro diesel. (At least this got my processor building back on track) But diesel engines have no tolerance for anything not highly filtered. Richard U -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrew Leven Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:47 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] bd in furnace and engines Hi All, What is the word on using straight bd in a Beckett oil burner? This is a new unit only having burned a few gallons of petro diesel to test it so it is basically a virgin'. BTW this is a backup unit on my Tarm wood fired boiler. Also has anyone had any issues with the solvent action in a petro diesel engine cleaning the gunk off the inside of the motor and having it plug up vital item ie: injectors etc.? Once the bd gets past your fuel filter it any degunked stuff is free to pass through the motor unfilterd Thanks in advance Andrew Leven ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
The company (CHEC) claims they use about 4 litres (just over a U.S. gallon) of water in 12,000 km (7,500 miles). In a tractor trailer, that seems trivial to me. Darryl McMahon Greg and April wrote: The water may be more plentiful, but, it still takes up volume and mass. 1 gal of water weighs about 8.35 lbs. and takes up 231 cubic inches So 90 gal weighs over 750 lbs and takes up over 12 cubic ft. That's a lot, of extra weight and volume being taken up. I can't help but wonder if the water is being doped with alcohol - it would increase the amount of H2 per unit of liquid, and IIRC, increases conductivity of the water, not to mention decreasing the temperature of freezing solid. Can anyone confirm the effects of electricity through alcohol? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 16:31 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power H. Well, considering that they go through 100 gallons of diesel fuel in an 8 hour day, and water (even clean water) is way more plentiful than diesel), that actually doesn't seem that bad if it allows saving maybe 5% of the diesel fuel. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] mixing oil
Juan, Yup. All day and night long. Even with your eyes closed. Todd Swearingen Hello People, I got different kinds of providers of oil (virgin Oil, waste oil, and animal tallow) I was wondering whether I could make one big mix and process it together. Of course, doing the right titration process and filtering the waste oil and animal tallow. could it be done? Thanks Juan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
Darryl McMahon wrote: I'm as much a hydrogen skeptic as anyone, but I would like to see someone investigate this further. The company is in Bowmanville, ON. I'm about 400 km away. I know there are list members closer than that. Anyone up for a visit to check them out. One of the local truck repair shops is on the dealer / installer list. The shop is located across the street from where I take my son to catch the school bus in the morning. I can stop there and inquire. Given that I have some knowledge and experience with this sort of thing, I'll see what I can learn. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
