Re: [Biofuel] What?
For some reason your server is probably bouncing email. Do you have access to the maillog? You can also check your host's uptime at www.netcraft.com. After a certain number of bounces most list serv programs will kick you off. mark manchester wrote: Very puzzling, My server says no, not a fault of theirs. I haven't received list mail for nearly a week. Am in the dawghouse or something? Jesse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What?
For some reason your server is probably bouncing email. Do you have access to the maillog? You can also check your host's uptime at www.netcraft.com. After a certain number of bounces most list serv programs will kick you off. Quite right Mike. This is what listadmin's message on bounce enquiries says: Your Biofuel list subscription has bounced. That means many list emails sent to you have been returned, which delays deliveries to other list members. At a certain point the list server automatically stops sending you any further list messages, and sends you three advisory emails over the next week or so with information on reactivating your membership (by responding to the message or clicking on a link). If there's no response to these emails the server unsubscribes you from the list. We have cleared your subscription so you will be receiving list emails again. But, as with all mailing lists, managing your subscription is your responsibility. You should check with your ISP to find out what is causing these bounces. It should also say: PLEASE don't send messages about your subscription to the entire list and the archives too!!! :-( Best Keith mark manchester wrote: Very puzzling, My server says no, not a fault of theirs. I haven't received list mail for nearly a week. Am in the dawghouse or something? Jesse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
Some time ago ther was a thread about producing bd in an alternative way, using electricity. Very high voltages were necessary. I recently saw one of those electric zapper thingies. The ones used for self protetction. Handheld device that gives 200.000 volts. And it operates on 2 x 9V batteries. When you use the device you can actually see the electric arc jump about 2 cm in the air. You could use this device for the generation of high voltages. Hope someone finds this info is usefull. Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? Teoman Naskali wrote: Some time ago ther was a thread about producing bd in an alternative way, using electricity. Very high voltages were necessary. I recently saw one of those electric zapper thingies. The ones used for self protetction. Handheld device that gives 200.000 volts. And it operates on 2 x 9V batteries. When you use the device you can actually see the electric arc jump about 2 cm in the air. You could use this device for the generation of high voltages. Hope someone finds this info is usefull. Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release Date: 12/19/2005 -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
Hi Teoman, and Bob; If this process eventually works it will require not just high voltage but current as well, something like 300 mA at 2Kv. That, you won't get from a 9v battery. I have temporarily suspended my work on the alternative process. Initial tests were not too inspiring. This does not mean I have given up but I have returned to putting time and energy (pun) into my conventional reactor and trying to kick start a cooperative in my community. When time permits I have some ideas I want to investigate with the HV setup. BTW since the thread came back up ( and wish you would have kept the subject line the same) I have a question for the chemistry propeller heads out there. This was flagged in my brain when the recent discussion of butanol for biodiesel came up. Someone said that the viscosity of biodiesel made with butanol would necessarily be higher due to the longer carbon chains in the butanol used in the esterification. The patent application for the electrified biodiesel had a comment about longer carbon chains in the esters due to the electrified process. Would this mean higher viscosity? This has always been a question in my mind since there is no glycerine precipitate, and the bi-product which is a 'etherified glycerine' remains dissolved in the esters how does one know if the reaction takes place other than using fancy tests such as spectroscopy or NMR? I would guess that if there is to be a change in viscosity that there might be a change in specific gravity in which case the volume should go up, or is this a naive assumption? Please excuse my ignorance I'm more of an electronic type. Joe bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? Teoman Naskali wrote: Some time ago ther was a thread about producing bd in an alternative way, using electricity. Very high voltages were necessary. I recently saw one of those electric zapper thingies. The ones used for self protetction. Handheld device that gives 200.000 volts. And it operates on 2 x 9V batteries. When you use the device you can actually see the electric arc jump about 2 cm in the air. You could use this device for the generation of high voltages. Hope someone finds this info is usefull. Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release Date: 12/19/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] tree power? and other stuff
Hi all, This could be neat. These people have supposedly tapped usable power from a tree. It is not all that out of the ordinary to detect small voltages and milliamps from a tree. I did the nail in the bark and the copper tube in the ground set up years ago when I was a child. I didn't have an digital meter at the time (They were over $450 at the time, way to expensive for a 13 year old kid) but I was able to measure between .4 -.7 of one volt and from 50-80 milliamps,from various trees. I just chalked it up weak galvanic reactions at the time and set the experiments aside. It is not too difficult to boost small amounts of juice enough to charge a small battery using capacitors and diodes , so in reference to this article, it may be time to revisit this idea of obtaining usable power from trees. It is after all, a press release, so take some of the Hyperbole with a few grains of salt but the experiments do deserve some further consideration and are an interesting area of experimentation regards tallex http://www.automotive.com/features/90/auto-news/17333/index.html MagCap Engineering, LLC Announces 'Free' Unlimited Energy Source Developed That Draws Power from the Environment CANTON, Mass., Dec. 20 /PRNewswire/ -- An alternative electric power generating system that draws energy from a seemingly unlikely yet abundant, eminently renewable and virtually free power source has been submitted for patenting by MagCap Engineering, LLC, Canton, Mass., in collaboration with Gordon W. Wadle, an inventor from Thomson, Ill. Wadle has invented a way to capture the energy generated by a living non- animal organism -- such as a tree. Chris Lagadinos, president of MagCap, developed circuitry that converts this natural energy source into useable DC power capable of sustaining a continuous current to charge and maintain a battery at full charge. As unbelievable as it sounds, we've been able to demonstrate the feasibility of generating electricity in this manner, said Wadle. While the development is in its infancy, it has the potential to provide an unlimited supply of constant, clean energy without relying on fossil fuels, a power generating plant complex or an elaborate transmission network. The developers now intend to establish a collaborative agreement with a company, academic institution or potential investors who can help finance the additional research and development necessary to take the invention to the next level -- a practical, commercially viable power generating system. Wadle likened the invention to the Discovery of electricity over 200 years ago when charged particles were harnessed to create an electric current. Now we've learned that there is an immense, inexhaustible source of energy literally all around us that can be harnessed and converted into usable electric power, he said. Ultimately, it should prove to be more practical than solar energy or wind power, and certainly more affordable than fuel cells, he added. Wadle said he got the original idea of harnessing a tree for electrical energy from studying lightening, more than 50 percent of which originates from the ground. This prompted him to develop the theories resulting in a method to access this power source. Lagadinos then designed circuitry that filtered and amplified these energy emanations, creating a useable power source. Basically, the existing system includes a metal rod embedded in the tree, a grounding rod driven into the ground, and the connecting circuitry, which filters and boosts the power output sufficient to charge a battery. In its current experimental configuration, the demonstration system produces 2.1 volts, enough to continuously maintain a full charge in a nickel cadmium battery attached to an LED light. Think of the environment as a battery, in this case, said Lagadinos, with the tree as the positive pole and the grounding rod as the negative. Near term -- within the next six months or so -- and with additional research and development, Lagadinos said the system could be enhanced enough to generate 12 volts and one amp of power, a desirable power level that could be used to power just about anything, he said. It is enough power to charge batteries for any type of vehicle, including hybrids and electric cars, or to use with an AC converter to produce household power, he added. The LED industry is a prime example of a potential user of this power source. Other applications would be to provide power for signs, security lights, street, park and hiking trail lights, surveillance or sensor equipment -- any application that heretofore couldn't be serviced because it lay beyond the hard-wired power grid. Government agencies and the military could find the system especially useful because the power is basically free, unlimited and can be produced in remote locations. MagCap is now seeking to establish a collaborative relationship with a third party,
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? The application that someone has figured out something they consider new, useful, and worth protecting and has applied to the patent office for protection. The USPTO does not verify that inventions work as their applicants state. As I understand it they pretty much trust the inventor except in the case of perpetual motion machines. They require a demonstration for those:) The fact that a patent has been granted on a drug to cure stupidity does not mean that the USPTO has seen such a drug work. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
For an interesting read on some of the bizarre twists patent law takes, search for blackberry patent in google news. It seems that althought NTP never actually built the equipment for their patent, Blackberry did (to great financial reward), without buying the patent rights from NTP. If you read some of the reports on the history of NTP, it's a little odd -- almost looks like their business plan was solely based on either selling their patent (not that uncommon), or if I interpreted it really cynically, patenting various ideas that someone else was sure to use at some point, then suing them over it when they did. (And now Microsoft is being sued too -- not small fish here) Zeke On 12/20/05, David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? The application that someone has figured out something they consider new, useful, and worth protecting and has applied to the patent office for protection. The USPTO does not verify that inventions work as their applicants state. As I understand it they pretty much trust the inventor except in the case of perpetual motion machines. They require a demonstration for those:) The fact that a patent has been granted on a drug to cure stupidity does not mean that the USPTO has seen such a drug work. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
HAY David then pills you sold me dont werk MIKE David Miller wrote: bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? The application that someone has figured out something they consider new, useful, and worth protecting and has applied to the patent office for protection. The USPTO does not verify that inventions work as their applicants state. As I understand it they pretty much trust the inventor except in the case of perpetual motion machines. They require a demonstration for those:) The fact that a patent has been granted on a drug to cure stupidity does not mean that the USPTO has seen such a drug work. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
As far as I know, patent offices do not check whether inventions work or not or have merit. They are solely interested in whether the invention embodies a new, non-trivial (obvious to one skilled in the art in question) idea or concept. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Tue, 20 Dec 2005, bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
Well AFAIK it costs money to file patents and you would have to have a lot of it to play games with bogus patents but who knows? It was relatively painless for me to try a few tests but unless I missed something it's not as simple as it sounds. I want to do some corona experiments but I have to make some changes to my power supply before I can do that. If you read the abstract it is written as if much experimentation had been done to find the right process conditions. It does not seem to be the work of someone dreaming up a possible process. Much empirical data is included in the document. Strange indeed. Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as I know, patent offices do not check whether inventions work or not or have merit. They are solely interested in whether the invention embodies a new, non-trivial (obvious to one "skilled in the art" in question) idea or concept. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Tue, 20 Dec 2005, bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
Mike Weaver wrote: HAY David then pills you sold me dont werk MIKE Mike, like I told you, you have to take them longer. At least 30 days, and if you miss a day you have to start all over. You obviously missed a day, so I'll be expecting your next order right away! --- David David Miller wrote: bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? The application that someone has figured out something they consider new, useful, and worth protecting and has applied to the patent office for protection. The USPTO does not verify that inventions work as their applicants state. As I understand it they pretty much trust the inventor except in the case of perpetual motion machines. They require a demonstration for those:) The fact that a patent has been granted on a drug to cure stupidity does not mean that the USPTO has seen such a drug work. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
