Re: [Biofuel] off-topic [Hydroponic gardening]
Err...not sure where all that's coming from. I'll tell you why hydro's the way for me, since apparently it's so horrible or whatever. My yard is entirely surrounded on all sides by overhead vegitation. No portion of my yard gets more than 2-3 hours of direct sun a day, so hydro lets me use my roof. Sure, I could concoct some elaborate system to carry 50lb containers of soil to my roof just so I could have to worry about the rotting effects it would have on my roof, or I could have some 4 lb containers in a series. As for not sustainable, I was just talking to a fellow the other day who uses seaweed and urine as his only 2 nutrients, growing tomatoes and basil in the cement wasteland that is his lot in whatever major urban metropolitan area he has to call him own. Everybody keeps telling him it's not going to work, and he keeps harvesting a rediculous amount of fruit every year. While I'm sure you understand that he could indeed build a planter in the same space, you also understand that the dirt method involves removing additional topsoil from some other location, bringing it where he lives, and replacing it/fertilizing it every year and/or discarding it. How that's any more sustainable than organic hydro, I don't understand. Actually, much like JTF has international projects to keep people fed, there's a large aquaponics group that helps areas of dense population w/ no or poor soil to have a very inexpensive, non-motorized, system of food production vis-a-vis the fish and vegetables grown in the same location. Anyway, had I 15 acres to farm on, I wouldn't use hydro or even advocate it. However, I don't. There are several other benefits too, like handicapped accessibility and whatnot. And...as for propping up the plant in the soil, sure, some systems involve a growth medium, which for the most part are non-composted organic materials, but there are plenty of other systems that don't use any growth media @ all, like NFT and deep water culture. You'll probably take offense to this, but you seem to read way too much into my posts, as in you assume too much. You're probably thinking I'm all about grow lights and grow rooms and what not. No way! I just like summer based, outdoor systems. I can grow 10 tomatoes in just over 27 square feet, and if I feel like moving inside when it gets cold, I can propogage/clone those tomatoes into infinity simply by taking cuttings and rooting them in water. My water usage is about 1 gallon per week per tomato, my nutrient use is 1lb per 100 gallons of water, and since I have full control over the substrata I have 0 worry about fungi, root bugs, etc, and a simple once a week vinegar/water mix keeps the foliar bugs at bay. I cannot see how that's any harder on ol' Mother Earth than a soil garden, especially comparing final pounds of fruit per square foot. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Gregory Bateson, was Re: New EPA Rules
Gregory Bateson was an anthropologist who was at one time married to Margaret Mead; he worked in Bali. He was also involved in cybernetics in its early days, and in research on schizophrenia (the double bind hypthesis). He also did some work with dolphins. One smart man. His father William was a biologist and geneticist of note; one of those who revived Mendel's work. If you can find the time to read Steps to An Ecology of Mind (1972), I don't think you'll regret it. There was a widely distributed paperback edition. It should be available in many libraries, or on inter-library loan. It's not so much a book of one great thesis but a collection of essays, good ones. He wrote several other books. He also had a daughter, Mary Catherine Bateson , who wrote on related topics. http://www.oikos.org/baten.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki.Gregory_Bateson http://www.crazytigerinstitute.com/batesonarch.htm Bateson remarked in Steps to an Ecology of Mind that wisdom might be defined (?) as an understanding of whole systems... He also had things to say about the pathology of conscious purpose extended too far. Bateson might lead you to Warren McCulloch, a psychologist and cyberneticist and a deep thinker; see his book Embodiments of Mind (MIT Press, 1965, 1988) and in it especially the paper A Heterarchy of Values Determined By the Topology of Nervous Nets. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Thu, 6 Apr 2006, Michael Redler wrote: Keith, Doug, Can you tell me a little about GB and spare me the time to research him myself? I never heard of him. Mike Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As Gregory Bateson put it in Steps to an Ecology of Mind (1972), a business corporation is not a group of people, but a group of parts of people; i.e. Economic Man #1, Economic Man #2, Economic Man #3, etc. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada Thankyou Doug, indeed so. A collective is not necessarily just the sum of its parts and may not even be like them at all. http://journeytoforever.org/fyi_previous5.html#creed Thanks too for the reminder of Gregory Bateson, one doesn't hear enough about him these days, IMHO. I lost that book some years ago, damn. Best Keith On Thu, 6 Apr 2006, Keith Addison wrote: You can't change a corporation's mindset by education, nor by any means other than hurting their bottom line. The humans who work for them notwithstanding, corporations are not human and do not have human drives or instincts or inhibitions, their only drive is profit-growth. Their PR budgets help people to think they're oh-so-human, but the money's only spent because it helps the bottom line. You can educate them like Pavlov educated his dogs, via shocks that hurt their bottom line and rewards that improve it. Unlike dogs, it doesn't work without the shocks. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] More Gardening News
Hi You might want to think about investigating permaculture. We have a smallholding in Scotland which I bought recently, it has been farmed mostly for livestock. The previous owners had a veg garden and kept pigs. We have already started planning and developing the site using permaculture principles to grow food for ourselves with perhaps a little left over to sell to our local community. Cheers Chris At 13:52 07/04/2006 +0900, you wrote: Congratulations on getting planted! I don't have the yard for dirt gardening, so I've been slowly moving over to hydroponics, it's really very interesting and quite cheap, I recommend it to anyone. *The first duty of the agriculturist must always be to understand that he is a part of Nature and cannot escape from his environment.* He must therefore obey Nature's rules. Whatever intrusions he makes must be, so to say, in the spirit of these rules; they must on no account flout the underlying principles of natural law nor be in outrageous contradiction to the processes of Nature. To take a modern instance, the attempt to raise natural earth-borne crops on an exclusive diet of water and mineral dope -- the so-called science of hydroponics -- is science gone mad: it is an absurdity which has nothing in common with the ancient art of cultivation. -- Chapter 12, Farming and Gardening for Health or Disease, by Sir Albert Howard, 1945. http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howardSH/SHtoc.html Having no yard doesn't have to stop you doing it right. I've grown food everywhere I've been in the last 23 years, including on a beach, in a 19th-floor apartment in Hong Kong measuring 450 sq ft and no balcony, in an even smaller apartment in Chiba that had 20 sq ft of cement outside. You've got windows? Grow food, use soil, put a worm bin under the sink. A lot of people around the world are doing that after visiting our website, many of them had never grown anything before. Some of them liked it so much they went and bought some land so they can do it properly. Hydroponics? Naah. Just wondering, is your compost all the way broken down? What is crusher dust? If your barn litter is mostly dung and sawdust like it is around here, watch out for the leech from the sawdust, it can wreak havok on roots. Just a warning. What leeches from the sawdust, and in what way does it wreak havoc on roots? Best Keith Keep us (me) advised on your progress. I'm working on a large community garden w/ a local community center this summer, getting kids in the dirt and making some food in the process. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Chris Fletcher [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Donald Rumsfeld Rakes in $5 Million For Tamiflu
Gary L. Green wrote: No, the 3rd one is not met or at least I don't think so. It is NOT spreading easily. If it were there would have been 10's of thousands of deaths by now, not just a few hundred. Okay, Let's go back, and see if we can quote me IN CONTEXT; I SAID: The WHO (who could be pawns of big -insert whatever here-) calls a pandemic when 3 criteria are met: -the emergence of a disease new to the population -the agent infects humans, causing serious illness -the agent spreads easily and sustainably among humans In the case of H5N1, 2 of the three criteria are met, and the potential for the 3rd exists. Did you read my post? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] off-topic [Hydroponic gardening]
the dirt method involves removing additional topsoil from some other location, bringing it where he lives, and replacing it/fertilizing it every year and/or discarding it. Say what? I believe they call the addition of carbonaceous material amending. Some of us just call it adding compost. And yahhh..! If he doesn't generate soil in a natural manner he's going to doctor it with an arsenal of chemicals, essentially leaving it bleached and nearly useless. More chemicals isn't the answer when soil is in such a state. And it certainly isn't the answer in trying to prevent such a state. How that's any more sustainable than organic hydro, I don't understand. Done the way you're suggesting isn't. I can grow 10 tomatoes in just over 27 square feet, You mean tomato plants, right? Not just tomatoes? My water usage is about 1 gallon per week per tomato, That's per plant, isn't it? I cannot see how that's any harder on ol' Mother Earth than a soil garden Did you add all the variables into the equation? The fuel debt to manufacture and ship the fertilizer (perpetual), tubing, tanks and pumps (one time), lights (on going after manufacture) if they're implemented and inevitable replacement parts? And you can't forget the wallet drain of one over the other. Compared to maybe a few trusted friends supplying compostable material from their 27th floor apartment or neighboring brownstone and a little vermiculture? Yup. There's a pretty big difference. Perhaps in some situations hydro is a positive choice. Then again, a community garden in a well lit space over a private garden in an aerial dungeon might be a better choice, even if the notion proves a bit tough to chew for some people. Are you sure there's not some infatuation with herbs clouding your supportive argument? They're an entirely different animal in comparison to primary food crops. Sometimes the better things in life aren't necessarily the techiest. Besides, once established, soil is considerably more maintenance free than hydro as a growing medium, as nature does most of the work. One would think that in this day and age that would be seen as a big plus. Todd Swearingen Evergreen Solutions wrote: Err...not sure where all that's coming from. I'll tell you why hydro's the way for me, since apparently it's so horrible or whatever. My yard is entirely surrounded on all sides by overhead vegitation. No portion of my yard gets more than 2-3 hours of direct sun a day, so hydro lets me use my roof. Sure, I could concoct some elaborate system to carry 50lb containers of soil to my roof just so I could have to worry about the rotting effects it would have on my roof, or I could have some 4 lb containers in a series. As for not sustainable, I was just talking to a fellow the other day who uses seaweed and urine as his only 2 nutrients, growing tomatoes and basil in the cement wasteland that is his lot in whatever major urban metropolitan area he has to call him own. Everybody keeps telling him it's not going to work, and he keeps harvesting a rediculous amount of fruit every year. While I'm sure you understand that he could indeed build a planter in the same space, you also understand that the dirt method involves removing additional topsoil from some other location, bringing it where he lives, and replacing it/fertilizing it every year and/or discarding it. How that's any more sustainable than organic hydro, I don't understand. Actually, much like JTF has international projects to keep people fed, there's a large aquaponics group that helps areas of dense population w/ no or poor soil to have a very inexpensive, non-motorized, system of food production vis-a-vis the fish and vegetables grown in the same location. Anyway, had I 15 acres to farm on, I wouldn't use hydro or even advocate it. However, I don't. There are several other benefits too, like handicapped accessibility and whatnot. And...as for propping up the plant in the soil, sure, some systems involve a growth medium, which for the most part are non-composted organic materials, but there are plenty of other systems that don't use any growth media @ all, like NFT and deep water culture. You'll probably take offense to this, but you seem to read way too much into my posts, as in you assume too much. You're probably thinking I'm all about grow lights and grow rooms and what not. No way! I just like summer based, outdoor systems. I can grow 10 tomatoes in just over 27 square feet, and if I feel like moving inside when it gets cold, I can propogage/clone those tomatoes into infinity simply by taking cuttings and rooting them in water. My water usage is about 1 gallon per week per tomato, my nutrient use is 1lb per 100 gallons of water, and since I have full control over the substrata I have 0 worry about fungi, root bugs, etc, and a simple once a week vinegar/water mix keeps the foliar bugs at bay. I cannot see how that's any harder on ol' Mother Earth than
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Donald Rumsfeld Rakes in $5 Million For Tamiflu
Missed that last line.Please type slower in the future. I'm getting old. ;-DGaryOn 07Apr, 2006, at 8:34 PM, Chip Mefford wrote:In the case of H5N1, 2 of the three criteria are met, and the potential for the 3rd exists. Did you read my post? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] David Ray Griffin speaks on facts of 9/11.
Dude! I had no idea!...maybe great minds think alike.:-)Mike "Gary L. Green" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey! Have you been snooping around my computer? How did you know that?I feel so . ordinary.On 6 Apr 2006, at 20:48, Michael Redler wrote: can be found in the "favorites" folder of many computers along side BBC world news and The Guardian.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Donald Rumsfeld Rakes in $5 Million For Tamiflu
Gary L. Green wrote: Missed that last line. Please type slower in the future. I'm getting old. ;-D Gary Ain't we all brother, Ain't we all. Take care, --chipper ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Donald Rumsfeld Rakes in $5 Million For Tamiflu
While I was in Switzerland, there was a news report of wild birds (swans, I think) turning up dead. I'm frustrated becauseI couldn't determine if theydied froma strain of the flu (it was in dialect and my German isn't perfect).There is a serious effort to fight the bird flu out there and a belief that wild birds are spreading it. This seems to be a contradiction to the report we discussed earlier that wild birds are not as much the problem as factory farms.This doesn't reflect my position on this - it's only an observation.Are there any listers from that area who can address this?Mike "Gary L. Green" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Missed that last line. Please type slower in the future. I'm getting old. ;-DGaryOn 07Apr, 2006, at 8:34 PM, Chip Mefford wrote: In the case of H5N1, 2 of the three criteria are met, and the potential for the 3rd exists.Did you read my post?___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Global Warming
Here is an interesting article on the BBC website...kinda helps reinforce the "...damned if you do, damned if you don't..." feeling a lot of people have... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4880328.stm --Randall Charlotte, NC ___ Heisenberg may have slept here "If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." --Abraham Lincoln ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] More Gardening News
Hi Robert Ok, it's not exactly earth shattering, But it IS exactly earth-shattering. :-) Down to the gravel dust (lots of minerals), an earth-shattering rototiller, worms that shatter bits of rock in their gut to help grind up the other stuff for the microbugs to eat and mineralising it at the same time, and roots that do the same thing inside out, etching minerals out of rock with acid and growing into the cracks. but it's my version of a subversive activity . . . I'm sure it's that too. Do you think Dig for Victory! is out of date now, shouldn't it be No-Dig for Victory!? Thanks for the report, and for keeping up with it the way you do. I fell by the wayside, no growing reports from me since autumn, though there's lots been doing. I didn't even respond to your reports properly, or not at all. A couple of replies got half-written and then they just sat there and went mouldy, sorry about that. :-( We put our potatoes in this morning. And we put some in this afternoon, the second lot, with one to go. (I grew up eating brown rice and don't really care for potatoes, but I don't think growing rice is something done in a suburban back yard anyway . . .) I think you can do it if you want to. I'm about to sow rice here and I don't have much more space than you do (you're my role model, did you know that?). No reason for you not to try growing rice, no need to flood it, grow a metre-wide strip, you might get maybe 1 kg per sq metre, worth having. You could have some difficulty finding a way to dehusk it though. Here there's a traditional method, which of course works well but it's a hassle and the traditional gear is rare, but most farmers have small power-driven dehullers in their sheds so a person can borrow the use of one. Don't know about Canada though. Anyway, if you want to grow some rice, you might have a read of this: http://ciifad.cornell.edu/sri/ SRI Homepage/System of Rice Intensification Cornell International Institute for Food, Agriculture and Development (CIIFAD) SRI FAQ: http://ciifad.cornell.edu/sri/qanda.pdf Questions And Answers About The System Of Rice Intensification (SRI) For Raising The Productivity Of Land, Labor And Water (230kb pdf) This is the English translation of the research report on SRI published by Father Henri de Laulanié, the Jesuit priest who developed the system in Madagascar, very interesting read: http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/Laulanie.pdf I was working on similar lines at about the same time in Hong Kong, with the farmers who grew Hong Kong's last rice harvests. I was using compost, raised beds and no flooding, but I left Hong Kong before I got very far. I only discovered Laulanié's work a few years ago. Anyway, the SRI system is sure spreading fast, and later developments are using it without any flooding, with compost and permanent raised beds. We grew a couple of beds of rice this way at our previous place a couple of years ago, and we got a harvest of sorts and learned a lot, but we couldn't get good seed and we didn't expect much with the seed we used. Now at last I've found some good traditional variety seed, and I was out in the fields this afternoon with the rototiller preparing the rice bed, among other things (only it's not a rototiller anymore). The rice bed is one metre wide and 21 metres long. There's already 65 metres of winter grains growing alongside, wheat, rye, and three kinds of barley. We were late getting it planted, and then we had nearly three months under heavy snow (it's usually about two weeks), but the grains grew okay anyway, only quite a big herd of deer kept coming in and eating it before we got a half-decent fence rigged. It made useful winter grazing for the chickens too whenever the snow melted, along with the other half of the field which I sowed with a grass mixture, also too late, and quite a lot of it didn't take, but there was enough for some winter bite. Or winter peck rather. The rice bed was part of the grass bit, the idea was to disk in the grass and whatever manure there was from the grazing along with some compost in the spring for the rice. I disced the rest of the grass in too today, what there was of it, and resowed it. We didn't manage to make enough compost over winter so I dressed it with chicken manure instead about 10 days ago, it'll get compost later (we have about a ton of compost but we're using it for something else, there's another ton curing and we'll make another ton next week, and so on). The field had two dressings of compost last year, with good effect, but that's not nearly enough. This field is 300 sq metres, which I think you said is the size of your land. A year ago it was a few inches of sour soil on top of deep, badly compacted clay and it flooded if you sneezed at it. We'd let the chickens graze down what little was on it as they could and in spring last year we subsoiled it. We could have done the job with weeds instead
Re: [Biofuel] off-topic [Hydroponic gardening]
Dear oh dear. Well, let's dump all the dross about where it's coming from, whether it's so horrible, getting offended and reading stuff into what people say. That last sure seems to be what you're doing. I didn't assume anything, I just said what I thought about hydroponics. If you've got room for hydro you've got room for soil and you'll get better results with less maintenance and no pests. And no, hydro is not sustainable, any more than any other kind of chemical farming is sustainable. With snips... snip As for not sustainable, I was just talking to a fellow the other day who uses seaweed and urine as his only 2 nutrients, growing tomatoes and basil in the cement wasteland that is his lot in whatever major urban metropolitan area he has to call him own. Everybody keeps telling him it's not going to work, and he keeps harvesting a rediculous amount of fruit every year. Like I said, you can go on doing it but that doesn't make it sustainable. It makes no difference whether the nutrients are of organic origin or not, the underlying principle is wrong and the system doesn't work no matter which nutrients you use or how much you tinker with it. While I'm sure you understand that he could indeed build a planter in the same space, you also understand that the dirt method involves removing additional topsoil from some other location, bringing it where he lives, and replacing it/fertilizing it every year and/or discarding it. How that's any more sustainable than organic hydro, I don't understand. This is predictable, it's a version of a common sneer that chemicals people like to chuck at organic growers. Usually it's that all organics people are doing is transferring soil fertility from one place to another, and I just wrote something about it in another post: Actually they wouldn't be transferring soil fertility from anywhere. Organic wastes are not soil fertility, they're a product of soil fertility, and left to the waste stream they're probably destined for no useful end or worse. There's double utility in using imported wastes as inputs, it diverts them from a wasteful waste stream, and indeed it's your duty if you can do it, Reduce, Recycle, Reuse. Then the wastes are used as the raw materials to manufacture real soil fertility on-site, often where there wasn't much before, if any. Actually, much like JTF has international projects to keep people fed, there's a large aquaponics group that helps areas of dense population w/ no or poor soil to have a very inexpensive, non-motorized, system of food production vis-a-vis the fish and vegetables grown in the same location. Soil is just the raw material - fertile soil is something you BUILD, not just mere happenstance. Even if there wasn't any there in the first place. If you want to know how to grow fish integrated with food production ask any Chinese farmer. Or look at this: http://journeytoforever.org/farm_pond.html Aquaculture for small farmers: Journey to Forever snip I can grow 10 tomatoes in just over 27 square feet, and if I feel like moving inside when it gets cold, I can propogage/clone those tomatoes into infinity simply by taking cuttings and rooting them in water. Well, if you want to play who's bigger, or smaller or whatever, we grew 8 tomato plants in 8 sq ft in Hong Kong in compost and beach sand over rubble, we paid no attention to nutrient levels, we fed the plants nothing, they were 15 ft tall, had HUGE yields of GREAT-tasting tomatoes and they had no pests. Bugs bugs bugs, LOL! Your concerns are the true badge of the amateur. We grew other great crops in soil on top of bare cement. If you understand soil you can grow great food anywhere. snip Like I said there's nothing new about hydroponics. It was based on the wrong principles 150 years ago and they're still the wrong principles. Here's something from our website that explains why quite well, followed by a couple of rare quotes from the great chemist Justus von Liebig, the founder of chemical farming upon whose work in the mid-19th century the entire edifice still depends. Read on... http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howard_memorial.html#Lutman The Scientific Work of Sir Albert Howard By B. F. Lutman, Professor Emeritus -- University of Vermont Organic Gardening Magazine (Vol. 13, No. 8), September, 1948 (Sir Albert Howard, Founder of the Organic Farming Movement, died in England in October 1947 at the age of 74.) SIR Albert Howard has finished what may be considered a fortunate life. It was fortunate in that his training and his work seemed to fit his temperament and the aims and ideals that he developed. Too many men are square pegs pushed into round holes, or vice versa. At the best, they are square pegs in square holes which they do not fit. But Sir Albert was, or appeared to be, a square peg which fitted exactly the square hole into which his work had placed him. He must surely be looked upon as a soldier of
[Biofuel] Suspended delivery
I am going to commune with the Pacific and will be away from April 8-24th so I'm suspending email delivery from this list. However if anyone wants to email me they can still get to my mailbox directly. Cheers all. I'll have a beer for each and every one of you LOL :-s Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Suspended delivery
Have a wonderful trip Joe. Have two beers for me :-) RoyJoe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am going to commune with the Pacific and will be away from April 8-24th so I'm suspending email delivery from this list. However if anyone wants to email me they can still get to my mailbox directly.Cheers all. I'll have a beer for each and every one of you LOL :-sJoe___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Roy Washbish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo Messanger ID roy21940 Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Suspended delivery
Yea. Me too!Dude, that's a lot of beer.:-)MikeROY Washbish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Have a wonderful trip Joe. Have two beers for me :-) RoyJoe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am going to commune with the Pacific and will be away from April 8-24th so I'm suspending email delivery from this list. However if anyone wants to email me they can still get to my mailbox directly.Cheers all. I'll have a beer for each and every one of you LOL :-sJoe___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet
Yes! Yes! Yes!...where's my Uncle Sam suit?!Seriously,the return toa healthy counter-culture would be a really good thing (not that I remember the sixties).There are a few, less noticeable signs ofa government with too much power, bent on bringing "order" to the world and how it's messing withyour quality of life.This is my short list:1.) Too many laws:There are over 4000US federal laws - enough to make youwonder if you are breaking one right now and ifyou are dislikedenoughto have it enforced.2.) All the songs on the radio suck because too many artists listen to the sound of a cash register instead of their humanity. I haven't found a connection to the government yet but, I think that artists reflect the culture around them which might explain it's occurrence.3.) Everybody is scared but nobody can provide a good example to show why. MikeKeith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.alternet.org/story/33896/Bring the Sixties Out of the ClosetBy Don Hazen, AlterNet. Posted March 23, 2006.We need to resurrect the good '60s -- a time when acting, despite being messy and imperfect, made a lot of good things happen.Photo courtesy of David Fenton, from his book Shots, published by Ten Speed Press.Late into Dana Spiotta's brilliant new novel, "Eat the Document," the protagonist, a woman who has lived "underground" for years, hiding from the consequences of a 1960s political protest gone badly awry, flashes back to the moment of choice:"The question is, do we want to leave action to the brutes of the world? There are some inherent problems built into acting. It lacks perfection. But I believe we must fight back, or we will feel shame all our lives. We, the privileged, are more obligated. It is a moral duty to do something, however imperfect. If we don't do something, all our lives we will feel regret."Lately, I've been thinking a lot about the '60s (actually the period from '67 to '73) -- that political era so filled with possibility, so much a part of the blood and souls of millions of aging baby boomers like myself. The period was profoundly effective in the changes it provoked, yet is so persistently pilloried for its exaggerated excesses. One reason I find myself looking back is the pervasive feeling of political impotence so many of us feel at this moment in history, and our seeming inability to act -- to be noticed, to make a difference.There are some present-day chilling parallels to the repression of the Nixon era -- and of course many differences -- but there is a feeling in the air that smells like the '60s, that sends paranoid vibes through the body politic. The events taking place -- warrantless wiretapping, political corruption, torture, the war in Iraq with its disgusting profiteering while tens of thousands of people die -- demand a response equal to the situation, Yet we sit without a clear path showing us our step.A short time ago, in a funding appeal to the AlterNet community, I wrote: "I haven't felt this angry, frightened or radical in a long time. We can no longer just do what we have been doing. In my several decades working in politics and media, the present feels dire."Those were my emotions; however, I didn't offer an action plan. The best I could do was ask for support so AlterNet could continue being a thorn in the side of the Bush administration. Important, but not sufficient.In the first draft of my appeal letter, I had also written: "Not since John Mitchell was attorney general and a paranoid, anti-Semitic Richard Nixon at the helm, have we been under an assault close to what we have today. And we don't have a Watergate to get Bush out of office." My editor suggested I take those sentences out -- "No need to go back to the past, and younger readers probably won't relate to this piece of history," she said. So I did.But my memory of that time is still so powerful, because many of us did act -- sometimes wildly, sometimes irresponsibly -- and we couldn't be ignored. And who can say that the Bush administration isn't shockingly irresponsible every day?I remember so clearly the May Day 1971 protests in Washington, D.C., glaring at Attorney General John Mitchell as he stood on the roof of the Justice Department, puffing his ever-present pipe and pretending to ignore the thousands of screaming, chanting masses in the street. The WikiPedia describes May 3, 1971, as "one of the most disruptive actions of the Vietnam War era."The threat caused by the May Day Protests forced the Nixon administration to create a virtual state of siege in the nation's capital. Thousands of federal and National Guard troops, along with local police, suppressed the disorder, and by the time it was over several days later, over 10,000 would be arrested. It would be the largest mass arrest in U.S. history.That's not a typo: More than 10,000 people were arrested, jammed into jails that resembled crowded elevators and bused out to RFK Stadium. It was crazy, anarchistic and
Re: [Biofuel] David Ray Griffin speaks on facts of 9/11.
How to sort out information from disinformation? Important issue for anyone trying to work off web sites - but also important for everyone, everywhere. How do you know whether any claim is true or not? What if you base your start-up sustainable biofuel business on poor information and bad technology, spend a few thousand dollars, and wind up with nothing - or worse, a huge mess on your hands? Here is a good place to begin thinking about these issues: http://www.library.jhu.edu/researchhelp/general/evaluating/counterfeit.html Note: I'd be pretty skeptical about a lot of the 9/11 'conspiracy theories'; many of them are so blatantly ridiculous that the only 'conspiracy theory' that makes sense to me is that they are deliberately put out there by some government PR agency trying to make Bush administration critics seem 'crazy'. As they say, caveat emptor, or, consider the facts carefully and trust your own reasoning abilities. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Donald Rumsfeld Rakes in $5 Million For Tamiflu
Well, I don't think it's a hoax in terms of the danger to poultry - this could wipe out a large section of agriculture; there's no doubt about that. However, the jump to humans, and then to human-human transmission, is a lot less clear; it could have happened 20 years ago, or it could happen 20 years from now. What is a hoax is the idea that stockpiling Tamiflu from Rumsfeld's company, Gilead, will solve the problem. I'd be more worried about drug-resistant tuberculosis and SARS ; the answer to that, and to any other epidemic, is good public health networks. --- Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I. S. wrote: If you are interested in this topic, take a look at this link http://dissidentscientist.blogspot.com/2006/04/avian-bird-flu-tamiflu-and.html (and the links included in the article) I. Peter Solem Hi Peter; Thanks kindly for the link, and the links to the links, But there isn't anything there to indicate that H5N1 is a hoax. I called a friend who works over at the NIH, who has friends at the CDC, and asked her what she thought about the concept of H5N1 being an elaborate hoax, after calming down (the question really rankled) she pointed me at; http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influenza/country/en/ and indicated (in so many words) that she did not feel that characterising H5N1 as a hoax was either accurate or even appropriate. Personally; I am not an epidemiologist, nor am I likely to ever become one. I have to rely on other folks for expertise. Someone states flatly that the bird flu (H5N1) is a hoax, they should be ready to back that assertion up. Now, if this had read; Donald Rumsfeld Rakes in $5 Million For Tamiflu; As shares skyrocket as a result of sensationalised, almost fictional coverage of the spread of H5N1 in the press, Rumsfeld collects the cash. Or something like that, I've have bought it. But it didn't. --- Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: D. Mindock wrote: As shares skyrocket as a result of the bird flu hoax, Do you know for a fact that the H5x virus is a hoax? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] off-topic [Hydroponic gardening]
There really is a range of options available; the main thing is to adapt to your own unique circumstances while using as little energy and material as possible. I like the idea of the guy growing in an urban wasteland - real urban renewal, that is. With drip tubing and very well aerated soil (use 50-75% non-absorbant material; perlite or coconut husks can be used) you can grow plants in fairly small containers with daily watering and minimal effort (drip tubing is really optional); note that in this case you have to continually add nutrients to the water since there is little available in the soil material. This is a completely different prospect from a farmer who rotates crops and continually adds manure/seaweed to fallow fields, etc. If you are stuck in a city with no other options, the above strategy minimizes your use of soil, and you don't have to bother will all that hydro equipment. The planting mix can be recycled crop after crop, as well, with maybe a little fresh slow-release organic soil amendment now and then. It all comes down to nutrients - using organic fertilizers is the way to go. You can go to your garden store and buy a bag of earthworm casings, a bag of fish meal and a bag of kelp, mix this up in a huge tank of water, and use that for watering. Experiment with the concentrations to see what works best; often people use way more fertilizer then they need to, which is a waste. Pretty simple, cheap and organic. I do agree that the oil-refinery byproduct chemical fertilizer mixes are best avoided, for many reasons - whether you are gardening on your roof or in an open field. In any case, happy gardening! [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Evergreen Solutions [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Err...not sure where all that's coming from. I'll tell you why hydro's the way for me, since apparently it's so horrible or whatever. My yard is entirely surrounded on all sides by overhead vegitation. No portion of my yard gets more than 2-3 hours of direct sun a day, so hydro lets me use my roof. Sure, I could concoct some elaborate system to carry 50lb containers of soil to my roof just so I could have to worry about the rotting effects it would have on my roof, or I could have some 4 lb containers in a series. As for not sustainable, I was just talking to a fellow the other day who uses seaweed and urine as his only 2 nutrients, growing tomatoes and basil in the cement wasteland that is his lot in whatever major urban metropolitan area he has to call him own. Everybody keeps telling him it's not going to work, and he keeps harvesting a rediculous amount of fruit every year. While I'm sure you understand that he could indeed build a planter in the same space, you also understand that the dirt method involves removing additional topsoil from some other location, bringing it where he lives, and replacing it/fertilizing it every year and/or discarding it. How that's any more sustainable than organic hydro, I don't understand. Actually, much like JTF has international projects to keep people fed, there's a large aquaponics group that helps areas of dense population w/ no or poor soil to have a very inexpensive, non-motorized, system of food production vis-a-vis the fish and vegetables grown in the same location. Anyway, had I 15 acres to farm on, I wouldn't use hydro or even advocate it. However, I don't. There are several other benefits too, like handicapped accessibility and whatnot. And...as for propping up the plant in the soil, sure, some systems involve a growth medium, which for the most part are non-composted organic materials, but there are plenty of other systems that don't use any growth media @ all, like NFT and deep water culture. You'll probably take offense to this, but you seem to read way too much into my posts, as in you assume too much. You're probably thinking I'm all about grow lights and grow rooms and what not. No way! I just like summer based, outdoor systems. I can grow 10 tomatoes in just over 27 square feet, and if I feel like moving inside when it gets cold, I can propogage/clone those tomatoes into infinity simply by taking cuttings and rooting them in water. My water usage is about 1 gallon per week per tomato, my nutrient use is 1lb per 100 gallons of water, and since I have full control over the substrata I have 0 worry about fungi, root bugs, etc, and a simple once a week vinegar/water mix keeps the foliar bugs at bay. I cannot see how that's any harder on ol' Mother Earth than a soil garden, especially comparing final pounds of fruit per square foot. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: Pollution: Where have all the baby boysgone?
Ummm.. China? --- Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 4) Girls are more intelligent Then why do they hang out with men? ;-) Hakan Falk wrote: Steve, Well, you know that, 1) Girls live longer than men and are physically superior, except for muscle power (might be a training question) 2) Girls are more resistant to illness 3) Girls survive twice as long as men in a cold water 4) Girls are more intelligent the above are averages and proven facts, so it might be something in it. Hakan At 13:35 06/04/2006, you wrote: You're entitled to your opinion sexist! Steve - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Gary L. Green To: mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 1:43 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: Pollution: Where have all the baby boysgone? Just my opinion but girls are better anyway. On 6 Apr 2006, at 07:58, mark manchester wrote: Every year, thousands of British babies who should be boys are born girls. The answer to this mystery could lie in a small town in Canada. Geoffrey Lean reports ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] the end of big biodiesel?
Catalytic Cracker is a term from the petroleum refining business; it is the reason that a barrel of black gunk can be turned into short-chain gasoline hydrocarbons; they rely on an inert solid-state catalyst to 'crack' the gooey long-chain hydrocarbons into shorter molecules. (Those big tower in refineries combine distillation with cracking). Cracking vegetable oil with methanol and lye is also 'catalytic cracking'. In a recent issue of Nature, some Japanese scientists report making a solid state biodiesel catalyst using carbonized sugar (to replace the lye) (really!) - I'll try and find the reference. There are other solid state biodiesel catalysts out there, I believe. --- Bob Carr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anyone know how a catalytic cracker works? If they are cheaper to run than than the FAME system we all know and love, why aren't we building them instead? Regards Bob - Original Message - From: Doug Foskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] the end of big biodiesel? So why is no-one doing this already? There must be some underutilised refineries around? regards Doug On Thursday 06 April 2006 3:59, bob allen wrote: I heard a presentation from a researcher at NREL (Pachecko?)at a biomass conference in Little Rock, Arkansas last week. He basically predicted the death of big biodiesel only a few years beyond peak oil. The story goes like this: when global production of crude oil starts to fall significantly, and crude supplies in the us start to fall, the fossil refineries will turn to alternative feedstocks to keep their big catalytic crackers busy. Easier than coal liquids will be the supplementation with lipids. Big oil will buy up every drop of available fat and oil, blend it with crude oil and run it through the refineries. Because large scale catalytic cracking is cheaper than FAME synthesis, they can undercut the price, and drive biodiesel out of the market. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Donald Rumsfeld Rakes in $5 Million For Tamiflu
On 07Apr, 2006, at 10:37 PM, Michael Redler wrote:here is a serious effort to fight the bird flu out there and a belief that wild birds are spreading it. This seems to be a contradiction to the report we discussed earlier that wild birds are not as much the problem as factory farms. This doesn't reflect my position on this - it's only an observation.In "factory" settings the birds can be out and loose. Even if not loose, their waste might become mingled with food and that food (floor sweepings, whatever) be available. Wild birds could land, eat, become exposed and fly away. Highest concentrations have always been where the birds were kept together. There is no stopping it. It will be in all parts of the world. Some birds will die. People who get too close to infected birds may die (fecal oral route) but not in the thousands.===PAUL Ewald is someone who thinks differently in the fight against diseases. He has taken the evolutionary point of view of the germ.While he is concerned about the possibility of global pandemics, he isn’t too bothered about the possibility of a global pandemic caused by the H5N1 influenza virus, otherwise known as the bird flu.Ewald has made something of a career saying it’s not going to happen. It’s just not. For it to happen, the world has to change. Not the virus. Not H5N1. The world.While it is widely accepted that the virus is mutating, this is not something unusual for Ewald because that is what viruses and other pathogens do. But evolution is random mutation coupled with natural selection.For bird flu to evolve into a human pandemic, the strain that finds a home in humanity has to be both highly virulent and highly transmissible. Deadliness has to translate somehow into popularity; H5N1 has to find a way to kill or immobilise its human hosts, and still find other hosts to infect. Usually that doesn’t happen. The idea that Ewald has brought to the understanding of infections is that evolution is all about trade-offs, and in the evolution of infections the trade-off is between virulence and transmissibility."We know that H5N1 is well adapted to birds," Ewald says. "We also know that it has a hard time becoming a virus that can move from person to person. It has a hard time without our doing anything. But we can make it harder. We can make sure it has no human population in which to evolve transmissibility."There is no need to rely on the mass extermination of chickens. There is no need to stockpile vaccines. By vaccinating just the people most at risk we can prevent it from becoming transmissible among humans." Apart from a contrarian perspective on the bird flu pandemic, his thinking extends to other diseases as well, that practically all medical disorders are caused by germs. So treat the infection and you get rid of the problem.He published a list of diseases he believes will be found to have their origins in infections and the dates when the medical fraternity will come to accept such facts: childhood leukaemia (2015), breast cancer (2015), and Type 2 diabetes (2025). His contention is that in 50 years common counter-measures like vaccines, antibiotics and improvements in hygiene will prove highly effective, as in the past.Paul Ewald, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Louisville, the US, made the above contentions in the December issue of Esquire magazine.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet
Uh, Yeah. Dude. We had all these great ideas, then we got really stoned and it drifted away. Then it was the 80's. Bummer Michael Redler wrote: Yes! Yes! Yes! ...where's my Uncle Sam suit?! Seriously, the return to a healthy counter-culture would be a really good thing (not that I remember the sixties). There are a few, less noticeable signs of a government with too much power, bent on bringing order to the world and how it's messing with your quality of life. This is my short list: 1.) Too many laws: There are over 4000 US federal laws - enough to make you wonder if you are breaking one right now and if you are disliked enough to have it enforced. 2.) All the songs on the radio suck because too many artists listen to the sound of a cash register instead of their humanity. I haven't found a connection to the government yet but, I think that artists reflect the culture around them which might explain it's occurrence. 3.) Everybody is scared but nobody can provide a good example to show why. Mike */Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: http://www.alternet.org/story/33896/ Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet By Don Hazen, AlterNet. Posted March 23, 2006. We need to resurrect the good '60s -- a time when acting, despite being messy and imperfect, made a lot of good things happen. Photo courtesy of David Fenton, from his book Shots, published by Ten Speed Press. Late into Dana Spiotta's brilliant new novel, Eat the Document, the protagonist, a woman who has lived underground for years, hiding from the consequences of a 1960s political protest gone badly awry, flashes back to the moment of choice: The question is, do we want to leave action to the brutes of the world? Š There are some inherent problems built into acting. It lacks perfection. But I believe we must fight back, or we will feel shame all our lives. We, the privileged, are more obligated. It is a moral duty to do something, however imperfect. Š If we don't do something, all our lives we will feel regret. Lately, I've been thinking a lot about the '60s (actually the period from '67 to '73) -- that political era so filled with possibility, so much a part of the blood and souls of millions of aging baby boomers like myself. The period was profoundly effective in the changes it provoked, yet is so persistently pilloried for its exaggerated excesses. One reason I find myself looking back is the pervasive feeling of political impotence so many of us feel at this moment in history, and our seeming inability to act -- to be noticed, to make a difference. There are some present-day chilling parallels to the repression of the Nixon era -- and of course many differences -- but there is a feeling in the air that smells like the '60s, that sends paranoid vibes through the body politic. The events taking place -- warrantless wiretapping, political corruption, torture, the war in Iraq with its disgusting profiteering while tens of thousands of people die -- demand a response equal to the situation, Yet we sit without a clear path showing us our step. A short time ago, in a funding appeal to the AlterNet community, I wrote: I haven't felt this angry, frightened or radical in a long time. We can no longer just do what we have been doing. In my several decades working in politics and media, the present feels dire. Those were my emotions; however, I didn't offer an action plan. The best I could do was ask for support so AlterNet could continue being a thorn in the side of the Bush administration. Important, but not sufficient. In the first draft of my appeal letter, I had also written: Not since John Mitchell was attorney general and a paranoid, anti-Semitic Richard Nixon at the helm, have we been under an assault close to what we have today. And we don't have a Watergate to get Bush out of office. My editor suggested I take those sentences out -- No need to go back to the past, and younger readers probably won't relate to this piece of history, she said. So I did. But my memory of that time is still so powerful, because many of us did act -- sometimes wildly, sometimes irresponsibly -- and we couldn't be ignored. And who can say that the Bush administration isn't shockingly irresponsible every day? I remember so clearly the May Day 1971 protests in Washington, D.C., glaring at Attorney General John Mitchell as he stood on the roof of the Justice Department, puffing his ever-present pipe and pretending to ignore the thousands of screaming, chanting masses in the street. The WikiPedia describes May 3, 1971, as one of the most disruptive actions of the Vietnam War era. The threat caused by the May Day Protests forced the Nixon
Re: [Biofuel] Suspended delivery
Only if it's good microbrewery beer or an authentic Belgian style beer.If it's Amerikan corporate corn and rice fermented chemical soup, please not one in my name.GaryOn 08Apr, 2006, at 2:43 AM, Joe Street wrote:Cheers all. I'll have a beer for each and every one of you LOL :-s ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: More Gardening News
"Consume for Victory"On 08Apr, 2006, at 2:49 AM, Keith Addison wrote:I'm sure it's that too. Do you think "Dig for Victory!" is out of date now, shouldn't it be "No-Dig for Victory!"? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Suspended delivery
I demand Budweiser. 'Merika Gary L. Green wrote: Only if it's good microbrewery beer or an authentic Belgian style beer. If it's Amerikan corporate corn and rice fermented chemical soup, please not one in my name. Gary On 08Apr, 2006, at 2:43 AM, Joe Street wrote: Cheers all. I'll have a beer for each and every one of you LOL :-s ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Pollution: Where have all the baby boysgone?
That's WHY not WHERE.The answer to Where is Bangkok.On 08Apr, 2006, at 7:23 AM, I. S. wrote:Ummm.. China? --- Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 4) Girls are more intelligent Then why do they hang out with men? ;-) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet
Disco yuck.Being stoned is good though. That's why god invented Amsterdam and British Columbia.On 08Apr, 2006, at 8:04 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:We had all these great ideas, then we got really stoned and it drifted away. Then it was the 80's. Bummer ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: Suspended delivery
I demand Budvar, not the rip-off Amerikan version. On 08Apr, 2006, at 8:06 AM, Mike Weaver wrote: I demand Budweiser. 'Merika Gary L. Green wrote: Only if it's good microbrewery beer or an authentic Belgian style beer. If it's Amerikan corporate corn and rice fermented chemical soup, please not one in my name. Gary On 08Apr, 2006, at 2:43 AM, Joe Street wrote: Cheers all. I'll have a beer for each and every one of you LOL :-s - --- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: David Ray Griffin speaks on facts of 9/11.
Okay fine but just because someone doesn't buy the party line doesn't make them a nutcase.Do buildings really implode inwards on their own? If so, then what about all these highly skilled blasters? Are they lying?What about the aircraft debris at the Pentagon "attack"? Not so much as a seat belt.Does anyone here really believe a lone nutter shot Kennedy?Conspiracy Theory are just a label hung on an idea that the status quo isn't comfortable with.On 08Apr, 2006, at 6:43 AM, I. S. wrote:Note: I'd be pretty skeptical about a lot of the 9/11 'conspiracy theories'; many of them are so blatantly ridiculous ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: Suspended delivery
I believe that's Czech for strong beer Gary L. Green wrote: I demand Budvar, not the rip-off Amerikan version. On 08Apr, 2006, at 8:06 AM, Mike Weaver wrote: I demand Budweiser. 'Merika Gary L. Green wrote: Only if it's good microbrewery beer or an authentic Belgian style beer. If it's Amerikan corporate corn and rice fermented chemical soup, please not one in my name. Gary On 08Apr, 2006, at 2:43 AM, Joe Street wrote: Cheers all. I'll have a beer for each and every one of you LOL :-s - --- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Suspended delivery
Dang Checks... why can't they learn ta speek inglish like the rest of the world? They make some good beer though. I guess the proper name is Budweiser Budvar to diff it from the cruddy stuff. On 8 Apr 2006, at 08:53, Mike Weaver wrote: I believe that's Czech for strong beer Gary L. Green wrote: I demand Budvar, not the rip-off Amerikan version. On 08Apr, 2006, at 8:06 AM, Mike Weaver wrote: I demand Budweiser. 'Merika Gary L. Green wrote: Only if it's good microbrewery beer or an authentic Belgian style beer. If it's Amerikan corporate corn and rice fermented chemical soup, please not one in my name. Gary On 08Apr, 2006, at 2:43 AM, Joe Street wrote: Cheers all. I'll have a beer for each and every one of you LOL :-s --- -- --- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Suspended delivery
Hey Joe, me thre please dont get lost there Fritz - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Suspended delivery Yea. Me too! Dude, that's a lot of beer. :-) MikeROY Washbish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have a wonderful trip Joe. Have two beers for me :-) RoyJoe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am going to commune with the Pacific and will be away from April 8-24th so I'm suspending email delivery from this list. However if anyone wants to email me they can still get to my mailbox directly.Cheers all. I'll have a beer for each and every one of you LOL :-sJoe ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Suspended delivery
Hi Gary, i am not shure of the Belgian beer,but bavarian beer is brewed under the "Reinheitsgebot" a law AD 1716 by the bavarian Duch and falsly called the "German Purity Law" since it did apply in the begin only to Bavaria! And it calls: Beer should only be brewed with Barley,Hops and water from deep wells What a wise man this bavarian Herzog Prost Drink ma a Massal guates echtes gsueffiges gschmackiges boarisches Bier Fritz - Original Message - From: Gary L. Green To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Cc: Joe Street Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 8:03 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Suspended delivery Only if it's good microbrewery beer or an authentic Belgian style beer. If it's Amerikan corporate corn and rice fermented chemical soup, please not one in my name. Gary On 08Apr, 2006, at 2:43 AM, Joe Street wrote: Cheers all. I'll have a beer for each and every one of you LOL :-s ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Using Pex?
I have some PEX tubing left over from plumbing our house, any one with experience using PEX to build a processor? Will the lye react to it? I am thinking of using it to heat the processor from our tankless waterheater which we use to heat the floor, as well as for mixing. Also will a washing machine water pump work? Luke ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Suspended delivery
Hi Mike, Budweiser is mainly brewed with Reis and therefore Bananabeer and not suitable for humenconsumtion Fritz Rice adds to global warming and should only feed the hungry - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Suspended delivery I demand Budweiser.'MerikaGary L. Green wrote: Only if it's good microbrewery beer or an authentic Belgian style beer. If it's Amerikan corporate corn and rice fermented chemical soup, please not one in my name. Gary On 08Apr, 2006, at 2:43 AM, Joe Street wrote: Cheers all. I'll have a beer for each and every one of you LOL :-s___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Unidentified Beer was Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Suspended delivery
Anyone familiar with a European pilsner that is uncarbonated out of the bottle, at least until a slice of lemon is thrown into the bottom of the glass and it's poured in? Bumped into it a decade ago. Haven't seen it since and can't remember the name. Todd Swearingen Gary L. Green wrote: Dang Checks... why can't they learn ta speek inglish like the rest of the world? They make some good beer though. I guess the proper name is Budweiser Budvar to diff it from the cruddy stuff. On 8 Apr 2006, at 08:53, Mike Weaver wrote: I believe that's Czech for strong beer Gary L. Green wrote: I demand Budvar, not the rip-off Amerikan version. On 08Apr, 2006, at 8:06 AM, Mike Weaver wrote: I demand Budweiser. 'Merika Gary L. Green wrote: Only if it's good microbrewery beer or an authentic Belgian style beer. If it's Amerikan corporate corn and rice fermented chemical soup, please not one in my name. Gary On 08Apr, 2006, at 2:43 AM, Joe Street wrote: Cheers all. I'll have a beer for each and every one of you LOL :-s --- -- --- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] David Ray Griffin speaks on facts of 9/11.
Hello Peter How to sort out information from disinformation? Yes, the problem. Here we are in the midst of the dawning Age of Information and just about nobody knows how to sort t'other from which. Lots of people think they do though. In some cases at least, the more confident they are about that the more thoroughly spun they're likely to be. They sure don't teach this stuff in schools, what a surprise! Meanwhile the sheer quantity of disinfo and the resources put into it have reached unprecedented levels. We'll somehow have to deal with the Age of Spin before we get to have a real Information Age. Important issue for anyone trying to work off web sites - but also important for everyone, everywhere. How do you know whether any claim is true or not? What if you base your start-up sustainable biofuel business on poor information and bad technology, spend a few thousand dollars, and wind up with nothing - or worse, a huge mess on your hands? Here is a good place to begin thinking about these issues: http://www.library.jhu.edu/researchhelp/general/evaluating/counterfeit.html Nice, thankyou. Actually the best place I know for anti-spin resources is the list archives, very relevant to biofuels issues, IMHO. Along with John Stauber and Sheldon Rampton's PR Watch: http://www.prwatch.org/ Center for Media and Democracy Note: I'd be pretty skeptical about a lot of the 9/11 'conspiracy theories'; many of them are so blatantly ridiculous that the only 'conspiracy theory' that makes sense to me is that they are deliberately put out there by some government PR agency trying to make Bush administration critics seem 'crazy'. As they say, caveat emptor, or, consider the facts carefully and trust your own reasoning abilities. I fear that's not going to help much with 9/11, I've seldom seen such thoroughly muddied waters. I see no reason to be any less sceptical of the official versions than of all but the whackiest conspiracist stuff and every reason not to be. No matter how whacky it gets I'm glad the objections and protests and questions are getting louder and louder and ever more insistent, and spreading far beyond the conspiracist fringe. Just about everything about 9/11 and what's happened since stinks very badly. In a way, if David Ray Griffin is helping to raise the clamour level and spread the questioning wider I don't much care what he's claiming. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Suspended delivery
On 08Apr, 2006, at 2:43 AM, Joe Street wrote: Cheers all. I'll have a beer for each and every one of you LOL :-s Joe, if you're still there, have a great time - if you're going hang gliding again try not to fall into the Pacific, it's not made of beer. (Not even Budnonethewiser.) All best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] off-topic [Hydroponic gardening]
Hi Peter There really is a range of options available; the main thing is to adapt to your own unique circumstances while using as little energy and material as possible. I like the idea of the guy growing in an urban wasteland - real urban renewal, that is. Urban wastelands the world over are riddled with city farms and greening projects these days, no need to go wrong-tech about it. Lots here: http://journeytoforever.org/cityfarm.html City farms This is quite a nice project: http://journeytoforever.org/garden_con-mexico.html Organic food production in the slums of Mexico City With drip tubing and very well aerated soil (use 50-75% non-absorbant material; perlite or coconut husks can be used) you can grow plants in fairly small containers with daily watering and minimal effort (drip tubing is really optional); note that in this case you have to continually add nutrients to the water since there is little available in the soil material. This is a completely different prospect from a farmer who rotates crops and continually adds manure/seaweed to fallow fields, etc. If you are stuck in a city with no other options, the above strategy minimizes your use of soil, and you don't have to bother will all that hydro equipment. The planting mix can be recycled crop after crop, as well, with maybe a little fresh slow-release organic soil amendment now and then. Why minimise the use of soil? Use soil, make compost, have great crops and no problems. It all comes down to nutrients - using organic fertilizers is the way to go. Sorry to disagree, but nutrients aren't the way to go, whatever the source. Do it organically and you never have to bother about nutrients. It makes little difference if the nutrients are organic or not, nutrient feeding is chemical growing, not organics. You wouldn't expect a guy lying in a hospital bed being fed a nutrient drip to have vibrant health and an invulnerable immune system either. You can go to your garden store and buy a bag of earthworm casings, a bag of fish meal and a bag of kelp, mix this up in a huge tank of water, and use that for watering. Experiment with the concentrations to see what works best; often people use way more fertilizer then they need to, which is a waste. Pretty simple, cheap and organic. Only in origin. Organic growing is a system, what it boils down to is feeding the soil, not the plant. If the soil is healthy the plants look after themselves, much better than you ever can. So-called fertilisers aren't fertilisers, they're just plant nutrients. Organic fertiliser is compost, it's just about the only thing that will reliably fertilise the soil. And it's very easy to make, even in small quantities. No need to buy anything. I do agree that the oil-refinery byproduct chemical fertilizer mixes are best avoided, for many reasons - whether you are gardening on your roof or in an open field. In any case, happy gardening! Indeed, in any case. Best Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Evergreen Solutions [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Err...not sure where all that's coming from. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
