Re: [Biofuel] pump position problem
Jason Katie, It probably will not stay flooded once the pump starts up. A priming chamber depends on having the chamber filled with fluid where a large part of the chamber is lower than the inlet pipe connection. That way the chamber can not drain back all of its contents back into the suction pipe. The chamber is then high enough with respect to the pump impeller and impeller housing to keep the pump head / impeller area flooded during pump and while the pump is off. Mike McGinness Jason Katie wrote: couldnt you put a check valve in line before the pump, and use the pump chamber itself as a priming tank? - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] pump position problem I use a fairly crappy drill pump and prime it with a spot of SVO in several spots in my process Appal Energy wrote: Is there anotherh alternative? Can anytone help? Depends on how your pump is plumbed in. If you can, put a standpipe with a valve in front of the intake on the pump. You can charge (fill) the standpipe with whatever liquid is appropriate for whatever you're trying to pump and use that charge as a pump primer. Todd Swearingen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. I have a problem with my new processor. I asked the person who was selling it if it was self priming and he responded yes, it could even suck water from 6meters. Ofcourse I didnt believe him, but I hotught that it probabbly could manage 40 cm. Well it cant. And #305; have already mounted above the fluid level. I have to use a vaccum pump to pull the wvo in to the pump :( Is there anotherh alternative? Can anytone help? THank you in advance Teoman Rudtard Kipling is rolling is his grave but William Easterly probably approves of pretty much everything you've said. Michael Redler wrote: I just wanted to chime in here. Keith wrote: It reached a stage here where the list would not have survived unless we'd formulated the rules, which were already there, we didn't just make them up. It's also too common to see a reactionary restriction of expression, screening all posts before distribution (for example). This forum proves that a loose framework is very effective at maintaining individual freedoms while allowing it's membership to participate in maintaining continuity. Kim: I read some of your posts and couldn't help notice the similarities between your views and the ideology driving the White Man's Burden. Maybe it's time to rethink the ideals to which we, in the US, have been indoctrinated. Maybe it's a good time to question the perceived credibility and legacy left behind by people like McCarthy and accept the fact that it's not acceptable to steer the culture, economy and government of another country simply because you feel you're better. You wrote: Our right to determine the direction of our life today is unparalleled in human history. So, Babylon, Ancient Greece, etc. don't count. The Magna Carta was just a piece of paper (if I can borrow an expression from our president). There have been and are, better examples of democracy in human history than the republic we Americans pretend to push on others in the process of building an empire. Do some research on our Constitution and it's origins. It will lead you in a few directions - one of which is toward the Iroquois nation. Ask an Iroquois about their right to determine their life - if you can find one. You talk about the reassignment of land for the greater good but conveniently under emphasize the eradication of those people in the process of fulfilling that illusion. Mike */Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Hello Kim Greetings, I do believe that many people on this list don't read real well. I think you're relying on it. No doubt a new subject-title and dumping all the evidence helps. The ones who disagree with you read quite well though. The un-keyhole view is of Kim trying to backpedal her way up a pedestal, in defiance of the laws of gravity and pedals. I did say I was in favor of colonizing the stars, not the colonizing that happened in past history and is happening today by the corporate world. Um, sorry, not so. In fact you were also criticised for the colonising the stars bit, and you ignored that too. But for a lot of forbearance you could have got the boot just for that, and much besides. You should read the list rules again. They're there for a reason. It reached a stage here where the list would not have survived unless we'd formulated the rules, which were already there, we didn't just make them up. They had to be put into a form that people could be referred to and told to read and comply with when they joined. If not no list any more
Re: [Biofuel] You were saying?
does this qualify as off topic? Zeke just said nothing qualifies as off-topic: http://snipurl.com/ [Biofuel] A little clarification But what's it got to do with biofuels? Eg.: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html#invis Different subject? But can you be sure the thread won't go that way? In fact it just did. Anyway nothing would have done just as well. Best Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] You were saying? Okay, I wasn't going to go there but since you did, a friend of a friend used The Who double album Tommy. Good listening too... Was he double-jointed? I miss the album art. Keith fred On 4/20/06, bob allen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, a friend of a friend, certainly not me, says that cleaning pot on a CD jewel case is just too difficult... Fred Finch wrote: Ahh yes... Back in the day when everyone had a turntable. Take off... To the Great White North!! and The Twelve Days of Christmas. On a related note, I had to share with one of my student workers what an album was. It seems the newest generation of kids are not familiar with such things as album art or liner notes or the fact that they are fragile. fred On 4/20/06, *Michael Redler* mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's from playing the Bob and Doug Mckenzie Christmas album over and over and :-) Mike */Mike Weaver mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I always wondered why you sound so funny when you talk... snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO sources and other stuff
...I don't much care for the gentleman. Sod being polite about it, I wouldn't cross the street to piss in his mouth if his teeth were on fire. Ahh, now I feel all better. :-) Best Keith wow, that was unexpected... not unwarranted i admit, but definitely unexpected. :-) Midori's outside talking to a guy who collects dead electronic gear for recycling. We gave him some dead gear, including a defunct PC someone gave us but it didn't work, which Midori referred to as the broken Windows. LOL! Is there any other kind? Anyway, re Mr Gates, what do you want me to say, that I take it all back, I didn't really mean it, in fact I would cross the street to piss in his mouth if his teeth were on fire? Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] You were saying?
On 4/20/06, Keith Addison mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Was he double-jointed? No, he needed to re-hash his decisions daily though. LOL! Heh... Can't think of a rejoinder, sorry, I'm getting too old for all this, it's high time they put me out to grass. fred BTW, happy 4/20 (or 4/21 for keith) I forgot it is tomorrow there already. Right, it's always tomorrow here already, no wonder I never get anything done. Thanks Fred, and the same to you, though I must admit I don't know what it's for. But who needs a good reason, happy happy! Keith I miss the album art. Keith fred On 4/20/06, bob allen mailto:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] rg[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, a friend of a friend, certainly not me, says that cleaning pot on a CD jewel case is just too difficult... Fred Finch wrote: Ahh yes... Back in the day when everyone had a turntable. Take off... To the Great White North!! and The Twelve Days of Christmas. On a related note, I had to share with one of my student workers what an album was. It seems the newest generation of kids are not familiar with such things as album art or liner notes or the fact that they are fragile. fred On 4/20/06, *Michael Redler* mailto:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ahoo.com[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:mailto:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's from playing the Bob and Doug Mckenzie Christmas album over and over and :-) Mike */Mike Weaver mailto:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:mailto:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]ma ilto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I always wondered why you sound so funny when you talk... snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] sustainable biodiesel from Casto : Big is not beautiful, small is more sustainable
Dear Bob and Keith I am very sorry for the late reply , not able to be as quick as KEITHI interpreted this to mean that the crushed seeds are subjected to the alkali catalyst/methanol hence the seed cake is exposed to the reaction. Here in Brazil nobody like to use Methanol , yes you are correct that the crushed seed is used as feed stock.The mixture of this two methanol and ethanol can be better, but the process for the big scale use methanol , and there is also effort to make the carbohydrate to make ethanol in future.sdPannirselvam bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By using one step simultaneous extraction and esterification , the patented process use crushed seeds to make four products , the BioD , the glycerol , the protein, carbohydrate that seem to deintoxicated for animal feed is now being scaled up to big pilot plant.I interpreted this to mean that the crushed seeds are subjected to the alkali catalyst/methanol hence the seedcake is exposed to the reaction. I've seen papers other papers discuss simultaneous extraction/reaction with soya bean flakes. the problem was that much more methanol is need to extract the oil during the processing into biodiesel, partly due to the moisture content of the beans.Keith Addison wrote: Ricin is a protein which would be denatured by the reaction conditions. Denaturation just means changing the shape of the protein, thus inactivating it. Same as hard boiling an egg more or less. Thanks Bob. But I think the ricin doesn't get into the oil, it's in the husk, and thus in the seedcake. I see James Duke says: "Although it is highly toxic due to the ricin, a method of detoxicating the meal has now been found, so that it can safely be fed to livestock." Ricinus communis, "Handbook of Energy Crops", James A. Duke, 1983 http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Ricinus_communis.html Maybe they just hard-boil the seedcake.Re the high viscosity:Brazil has 20 years of good research reports about castor oil use as biofuel , which we have the acess .One main problem with castor oil BioD is the viscosity that can be easily solved. That seems to be the main problem. Castor oil is 100 times more viscous than petro-diesel. Castor oil biodiesel is less viscous than the straight oil, but several references say it is still higher than the national standards specification limits. If there is an easy way to make it less viscous or to solve the problem that would be valuable to know. Do you have any further information on this? This is quite interesting on how castor oil works as a lubricant and why it's different to other oils: http://www.georgiacombat.com/CASTOR_OIL.htm CASTOR OIL Castor oil has good lubricity, I wonder if castor oil biodiesel have better lubricity than others. Maybe that could offset the viscosity problem. More and more places are following the French and specifying biodiesel as a lubrication additive in LS diesel fuel. If it had better lubricity you'd need to use less, and the high viscosity wouldn't matter at such a low percentage. Which is where I grind to a halt because the difference between lubricity and viscosity isn't that clear, or at least not to me, especially when you add high temperatures. Anyone know better? Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- Bob Allenhttp://ozarker.org/bob"Science is what we have learned about how to keepfrom fooling ourselves" � Richard Feynman___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Organic Biophonics and Hydo gardening
Evergreen Solutions [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Err...not sure where all that's coming from.I'll tell you why hydro's the way for me, since apparently it's sohorrible or whatever. From hydroponic gardens you can go to ecological bio phonics organic system. Thus we are making system study on biosystem integration , to do first thermophilic aerobic composting , then anaerobic bio digestion , then algae , which goes to fish and prawn pond , then this sludge from this used as gravel bed bio phonics organic gardening . After study of 3 years about hydroponics system , we have made a longer journey and finlay came to the same point what Keith point outs that we can not think only of fertilizer, there need to be soil based substrate , not the comercial one , as the plant needs are very complex and the plant growth is not limited to substarate , nutients , but there is living biosystem , ecology of this system tooMicrobiological ecology of the soil can help us , why we need eliminate this small tiny bacterial , fungus insect system ,rather let us combine the hydro system to benefit this natural organic system with fish and other wastes. Thus this new ecofriendly system is based both on the Hydro system ,but do keep the natural soil based substrate too.My yard is entirely surrounded on all sides by overhead vegetation. Noportion of my yard gets more than 2-3 hours of direct sun a day, sohydro lets me use my roof. Sure, I could concoct some elaborate systemto carry 50lb containers of soil to my roof just so I could have toworry about the rotting effects it would have on my roof, or I couldhave some 4 lb containers in a series.Can be good one where land is problemsAs for not sustainable, I was just talking to a fellow the other daywho uses seaweed and urine as his only 2 nutrients, growing tomatoesand basil in the cement wasteland that is his lot in whatever majorurban metropolitan area he has to call him own. Everybody keepstelling him it's not going to work, and he keeps harvesting aridiculous amount of fruit every year.Cow urine and wastes recycling are always practiced in rural areas in India and the most Asiatic countries , making more sustainable systemWhile I'm sure you understand that he could indeed build a planter inthe same space, you also understand that the "dirt" method involvesremoving additional topsoil from some other location, bringing itwhere he lives, and replacing it/fertilizing it every year and/ordiscarding it. How that's any more "sustainable" than organic hydro, Idon't understand. to make organic hydro one need also understand ecological bio systems . Here in Brazil, sugarcane based substrate , hydro system to make corn seed fast growing system has been found to be successful in demonstration level. When they made in big scale , several cows that were taking this hydro based beautiful green feed has died. Surely the microbial infection of this hydro system can be monitored , controlled , but not a sustainable system , yet .Now no more hydro system here even though there is need for the same because we are in dry landActually, much like JTF has international projects to keep people fed,there's a large aquaponics group that helps areas of dense populationw/ no or poor soil to have a very inexpensive, non-motorized, systemof food production vis-a-vis the fish and vegetables grown in the samelocation. I agree with you about the fish and vegetable system , but the use of only the hidro , but rather ecologically sound biophonics system need to designed based on nature , the natural way the plant has choosen adopted is the soil.For the engineer or businees people , it is not easy to undesrtand the ecology as this more comlex , not also the biophonic system which is an advanced topics in relation with hidro , need sound ecological engineering basicsAnyway, had I 15 acres to farm on, I wouldn't use hydro or evenadvocate it. However, I don't. There are several other benefits too,like handicapped accessibility and whatnot. And...as for "propping upthe plant in the soil", sure, some systems involve a growth medium,which for the most part are non-composted organic materials, but thereare plenty of other systems that don't use any growth media @ all,like NFT and deep water culture.You'll probably take offense to this, but you seem to read way toomuch into my posts, as in you assume too much. You're probablythinking I'm all about grow lights and grow rooms and what not. Noway! I just like summer based, outdoor systems. I can grow 10 tomatoesin just over 27 square feet, and if I feel like moving inside when itgets cold, I can propogage/clone those tomatoes into infinity simplyby taking cuttings and rooting them in water. My water usage is about1 gallon per week per tomato, my nutrient use is 1lb per 100 gallonsof water, and since I have full control over the substrata I have 0worry about fungi, root bugs, etc, and a simple once a weekvinegar/water mix keeps the foliar bugs at bay. I cannot see
Re: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:29 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject:[Biofuel] I always new they were worthless http://qconline.com/archives/qco/sections.cgi?prcss=displayid=284986 check this, if it doesnt give you the impression that the forces of law are bad i dont know what will. Shame on the passerby whose idea of rendering aid is to make one phone call and then leave the scene. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Bush and the current state of the US
I grew up in the 40s when people saved cans and papers and grease for the war effort, gasoline was rationed, and the tires you had in 1941 had to last you until the war was over... Those who died in Europe and the Pacific would be rolling in their graves if they could see the greedy, I'm entitled society we are today and the rotten spoiled child we have in the presidency... The country is bankrupt - financially and morally. A decent government would call for a 55 mps speed limit, 50 MPG (at least) vehicles, more public transportation, and a revitalization of the OPA where oil prices are concerned. The spot market should be shut down...Tony Austin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless
Could you cut and paste the article? I do not like signing up on more websites than is necessary. Thanks! Randall Charlotte, NC ___ Heisenberg may have slept here If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my xe. --Abraham Lincoln ___ - Original Message - From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 12:29 AM Subject: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless http://qconline.com/archives/qco/sections.cgi?prcss=displayid=284986 check this, if it doesnt give you the impression that the forces of law are bad i dont know what will. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush and the current state of the US
Anthony Austin wrote: I grew up in the 40s when people saved cans and papers and grease for the war effort, gasoline was rationed, and the tires you had in 1941 had to last you until the war was over... Those who died in Europe and the Pacific would be rolling in their graves if they could see the greedy, I'm entitled society we are today and the rotten spoiled child we have in the presidency... The country is bankrupt - financially and morally. A decent government would call for a 55 mps speed limit, 50 MPG (at least) vehicles, more public transportation, and a revitalization of the OPA where oil prices are concerned. The spot market should be shut down...Tony Austin 30 years ago, that exactly the direction we the people were headed. The came Reagan. -The End. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] odd heat source
Hi All, If the solid waste comes in mixed and not with the organics source separted they can be contaminated by anything that was in the original solid waste. Heavy metal contamination comes to mind, particularly mercury, lead and zinc. I would also ask about the energy source for drying and pelletizing the solid waste. That could make it a zero sum or negative sum proposition. Organics in a solid waste stream can be very wet. Is there any penalties in the contract if 60 tons of pellets are not delivered? Tom From: Jason Katie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 02:19:33 -0300Subject: [Biofuel] odd heat sourcedoes this make good sense? yea it has its merits, but i can forsee some problems. any opinions or ideas?http://qconline.com/qcnews/archives/qco/sections.cgi?prcss=displayid=284865April 19, 2006 1:07 PMBiodiesel plant to use trash as fuelMARCUS, Iowa (AP) -- One man's trash is another man's -- energy source?Soy Energy, a company that plans to build and operate the plant, will use pellets of biomass from a local landfill as its primary source of steam and thermal energy, said Mark Buschkamp, executive director of Cherokee Area Economic Development.Experts say trash is a novel source of energy for a biofuels refinery. Company officials believe using biomass will offset the high costs of natural gas.The biomass will come from Cherokee County Solid Waste, a three-county landfill near Cherokee, Buschkamp said.The landfill will build a facility to collect materials, such as paper, cardboard and foods, which will be turned into pellets for use by Soy Energy.The plant will require 60 tons of pellets a day.Construction on the plant, to be located on 37 acres between Marcus and Cleghorn in northwest Iowa, is expected to begin by the end of the year with a planned opening for the end of 2007.An announcement on the $52 million investor-owned project was expected Wednesday.Plans also include construction of a soybean-crushing plant, expected to be completed by 2010.-- Information from: The Des Moines Register, http://www.desmoinesregister.com___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Thoughts on the Bush Admninistation
I don't agree that government is categorically all bad. In theory government could be good because it protects you from other entities so large than only the government can protect you from them -- like corporations. However, in the current regime of deregulation and capitalism-is-god, government has given up the one thing it could do for me, so perhaps in this case I'd agree... On 4/20/06, Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i dont believe the gov't is all bad, i can damn near guarantee its all bad. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Thoughts on the Bush Admninistation No one wants to believe their government is all bad. Respectfully, Marilyn ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.4/319 - Release Date: 4/19/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush and the current state of the US
Anthony Austin writes a very interesting article about the 1940's. It is useful to look at the past to make good changes for the future. If drastic conservation was manatory in the 40's we may have to repeat that effort to save the future. If we do not switch to alternative energy in the next 5 years we make have to ban the use of burning fossil fuels some day just to insure that humans survive on this planet. Terry Dyck From: Anthony Austin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Bush and the current state of the US Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 05:52:27 -0400 I grew up in the 40s when people saved cans and papers and grease for the war effort, gasoline was rationed, and the tires you had in 1941 had to last you until the war was over... Those who died in Europe and the Pacific would be rolling in their graves if they could see the greedy, I'm entitled society we are today and the rotten spoiled child we have in the presidency... The country is bankrupt - financially and morally. A decent government would call for a 55 mps speed limit, 50 MPG (at least) vehicles, more public transportation, and a revitalization of the OPA where oil prices are concerned. The spot market should be shut down...Tony Austin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO sources and other stuff
nah, i dont blame you for saying it, i just couldnt imagine you putting it to writing until you actually did it. one of those shocking things, like hearing your mother say she likes rap music or something. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 1:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO sources and other stuff ...I don't much care for the gentleman. Sod being polite about it, I wouldn't cross the street to piss in his mouth if his teeth were on fire. Ahh, now I feel all better. :-) Best Keith wow, that was unexpected... not unwarranted i admit, but definitely unexpected. :-) Midori's outside talking to a guy who collects dead electronic gear for recycling. We gave him some dead gear, including a defunct PC someone gave us but it didn't work, which Midori referred to as the broken Windows. LOL! Is there any other kind? Anyway, re Mr Gates, what do you want me to say, that I take it all back, I didn't really mean it, in fact I would cross the street to piss in his mouth if his teeth were on fire? Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.4/320 - Release Date: 4/20/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush and the current state of the US
the U.S. of A. (remember this day) one foot in the gutter, one foot in the grave. no chance for the poor, no hope for the brave, the wicked shall rest, the weak will be prey. the country is dying, remember this day. the bankers, they rule us, while small children beg, business is law, while we have nary a leg. we can't live like this, this isn't the way, our country is dying, remember this day. the world at large hates me, because of my flag, and yet I see it's worth no more than a rag. everything's backwards, what can i say? my country is dying, remember this day. a rare moment ,that, when i can spout something like this, my imagination has faded over the years. jason - Original Message - From: Anthony Austin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 4:52 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Bush and the current state of the US I grew up in the 40s when people saved cans and papers and grease for the war effort, gasoline was rationed, and the tires you had in 1941 had to last you until the war was over... Those who died in Europe and the Pacific would be rolling in their graves if they could see the greedy, I'm entitled society we are today and the rotten spoiled child we have in the presidency... The country is bankrupt - financially and morally. A decent government would call for a 55 mps speed limit, 50 MPG (at least) vehicles, more public transportation, and a revitalization of the OPA where oil prices are concerned. The spot market should be shut down...Tony Austin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.4/320 - Release Date: 4/20/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush and the current state of the US
Didn't you hear? Saving resources for the war effort is out of date. It's been replaced by simpler and cleaner actions such as simply putting a yellow ribbon on your giant SUV now. I wasn't around in the 40's, but it does seem like people took war alot more seriously then, and actually knew what it meant to be a nation at war, unlike today. On 4/21/06, Anthony Austin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I grew up in the 40s when people saved cans and papers and grease for the war effort, gasoline was rationed, and the tires you had in 1941 had to last you until the war was over... Those who died in Europe and the Pacific would be rolling in their graves if they could see the greedy, I'm entitled society we are today and the rotten spoiled child we have in the presidency... The country is bankrupt - financially and morally. A decent government would call for a 55 mps speed limit, 50 MPG (at least) vehicles, more public transportation, and a revitalization of the OPA where oil prices are concerned. The spot market should be shut down...Tony Austin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] List Test
Just double checking a new config Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless
sorry, i never considered that someone would lock archives... kind of defeats the purpose. April 20, 2006; 12:15 p.m. High court rules against Hays family Comment on this article By Stephanie Sievers, Springfield bureau Photo: Terry Herbig This stretch of road along U.S. 150 is the area where the body of Doris Hayes, Orion, was discovered. She was found outside her car, which had run off the road and into a deep ravine on the east side of U.S. 150, about a mile and a half south of Coal Valley. More photos from this shoot Graphic: Submitted Doris Hays SPRINGFIELD - The Illinois Supreme Court has sided with local law enforcement, ruling today they were immune from liability even though they failed to come to the aid of Doris Hays, an Orion woman who died after a car accident. The 68-year-old woman died in 2002 after she wrecked her car on U.S. 150 near the Henry/Rock Island county line. A passerby called for help and the message was relayed to multiple law enforcement agencies, but no help ever arrived. Hays' body wasn't found until three days later. Her sister, Mary DeSmet, filed a wrongful-death lawsuit against a number of defendants, including Rock Island County and Sheriff Michael Grchan, Henry County and Sheriff Gilbert Cady, Orion, Moline and East Moline. The state's highest court agreed with lower courts that the lawsuit should be dismissed. The court found that although people have a right to expect police to respond to such a situation, authorities weren't liable under the Tort Immunity Act, which protects governmental entities and employees from lawsuits. There is an exception for willful and wanton behavior, but since law enforcement never responded or tried to enforce the law, that exception didn't apply in this case, wrote Justice Lloyd Karmeier, who penned the majority opinion. Ms. Hays' family appealed to the state's highest court after lower-level courts threw out the case on the grounds that governmental entities and employees were protected against the lawsuit by the Tort Immunity Act. Michael Rathsack, the appellate attorney for the family, said that, while lawmakers wanted to protect such groups from legal liability, the Hays case probably isn't what they had in mind. 'I don't think the legislature ever thought that somebody would call and they would say, 'We'll come,' and they don't come. That's the problem. We're trying to look at a statute that was never designed to address the situation,' he said. Law enforcement is granted fairly broad lawsuit protection even when it fails to provide adequate service. Mr. Rathsack was asking the Illinois Supreme Court to decide if that immunity should cover providing no service at all. Robert Noe, a Moline attorney representing Rock Island County, Sheriff Grchan and emergency services dispatcher Myrtle DeWitte, argued that no police response is the same as an inadequate response, which is protected. He also said that, by the time the call was relayed to Rock Island County, dispatchers were only told that a car was in a ditch. Posted online: April 20, 2006 9:30 PM Print publication date: April 21, 2006 Illinois Supreme Courts rules in favor of law enforecement in Hays' suit By Stephanie Sievers, [EMAIL PROTECTED] SPRINGFIELD -- The Illinois Supreme Court has sided with local law enforcement, ruling Thursday they were immune from liability even though they failed to come to the aid of Doris Hays, an Orion woman who died following a car accident. The 68-year-old woman died in 2002 after she wrecked her car on U.S. 150 near the Henry/Rock Island county line. A passerby called for help and the message was relayed to multiple law enforcement agencies, but no help ever arrived. Hays' body wasn't found until three days later. Her sister, Mary DeSmet, filed a wrongful-death lawsuit against a number of defendants, including Rock Island County and Sheriff Michael Grchan, Henry County and Sheriff Gilbert Cady, Orion and village clerk Lori Sampson, Moline and East Moline. The state's highest court agreed with lower courts that the lawsuit should be dismissed. The court found that although people have a right to expect police to respond to such a situation, authorities weren't liable under the Tort Immunity Act, which protects governmental entities and employees from lawsuits. There is an exception for willful and wanton behavior, but since law enforcement never responded or tried to enforce the law, that exception didn't apply in this case, wrote Justice Lloyd Karmeier, who penned the majority opinion. Mrs. DeSmet knew her case had a 50/50 chance of
Re: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless
Once again I repeat myself, this time with the transcript attached to keep anyone who cares on track. Did the person who called in the accident rightly feel that rendering aid only consists of placing a phone call (perhaps one not totally clear as to the actual circumstances) and then driving off as a morally correct action? What in the phrase rendering aid was not understood? If you were in a wreck and someone with a cell phone in hand asked if they could help and you said sure. Then they said I'll call 911, but see-ya, good luck, would you feel good? Would you do this to someone in need and still feel good about yourself. Sure, the local community has a deeper pocket than the AH who drove off, so there is where to try and sue. Any successful lawyer will advise you of that. But blame the marginally paid 911 operators with (possibly) poor information? Get real on who is negligent. Michael ... and this really pisses me off. Hate the establishment, yet blame them when we (a supposed community) personally fail. Time to grow-up folks! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 8:14 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject:Re: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless File: death10a.gif File: haysd.jpggraphic=1 File: ATT00216.txt sorry, i never considered that someone would lock archives... kind of defeats the purpose. April 20, 2006; 12:15 p.m. High court rules against Hays family Comment on this article By Stephanie Sievers, Springfield bureau Photo: Terry Herbig This stretch of road along U.S. 150 is the area where the body of Doris Hayes, Orion, was discovered. She was found outside her car, which had run off the road and into a deep ravine on the east side of U.S. 150, about a mile and a half south of Coal Valley. More photos from this shoot Graphic: Submitted Doris Hays SPRINGFIELD - The Illinois Supreme Court has sided with local law enforcement, ruling today they were immune from liability even though they failed to come to the aid of Doris Hays, an Orion woman who died after a car accident. The 68-year-old woman died in 2002 after she wrecked her car on U.S. 150 near the Henry/Rock Island county line. A passerby called for help and the message was relayed to multiple law enforcement agencies, but no help ever arrived. Hays' body wasn't found until three days later. Her sister, Mary DeSmet, filed a wrongful-death lawsuit against a number of defendants, including Rock Island County and Sheriff Michael Grchan, Henry County and Sheriff Gilbert Cady, Orion, Moline and East Moline. The state's highest court agreed with lower courts that the lawsuit should be dismissed. The court found that although people have a right to expect police to respond to such a situation, authorities weren't liable under the Tort Immunity Act, which protects governmental entities and employees from lawsuits. There is an exception for willful and wanton behavior, but since law enforcement never responded or tried to enforce the law, that exception didn't apply in this case, wrote Justice Lloyd Karmeier, who penned the majority opinion. Ms. Hays' family appealed to the state's highest court after lower-level courts threw out the case on the grounds that governmental entities and employees were protected against the lawsuit by the Tort Immunity Act. Michael Rathsack, the appellate attorney for the family, said that, while lawmakers wanted to protect such groups from legal liability, the Hays case probably isn't what they had in mind. 'I don't think the legislature ever thought that somebody would call and they would say, 'We'll come,' and they don't come. That's the problem. We're trying to look at a statute that was never designed to address the situation,' he said. Law enforcement is granted fairly broad lawsuit protection even when it fails to provide adequate service. Mr. Rathsack was asking the Illinois Supreme Court to decide if that immunity should cover providing no service at all. Robert Noe, a Moline attorney representing Rock Island County, Sheriff Grchan and emergency services dispatcher Myrtle DeWitte, argued that no police response is the same as an inadequate response, which is protected. He also said that, by the time the call was relayed to Rock Island County, dispatchers were only told that a car was in a ditch. Posted online: April 20, 2006 9:30 PM Print publication date: April 21, 2006 Illinois Supreme Courts rules in favor of law enforecement in Hays' suit By Stephanie Sievers, [EMAIL PROTECTED] SPRINGFIELD -- The Illinois Supreme Court has
Re: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless
ok i understand your point about the jackhole who drove off, but even so, the authorities were called, and didn't even deign to answer. it is still their sworn duty to serve and protect, and unless there was something inherently evil about coming to this person's aid, i say they shirked their protection directive by a fairly wide margin. and i know a couple rock island dispatch operators personally, and it is standard to page EVERYBODY in an uncertain situation, no exceptions. - Original Message - From: Michael Gian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless Once again I repeat myself, this time with the transcript attached to keep anyone who cares on track. Did the person who called in the accident rightly feel that rendering aid only consists of placing a phone call (perhaps one not totally clear as to the actual circumstances) and then driving off as a morally correct action? What in the phrase rendering aid was not understood? If you were in a wreck and someone with a cell phone in hand asked if they could help and you said sure. Then they said I'll call 911, but see-ya, good luck, would you feel good? Would you do this to someone in need and still feel good about yourself. Sure, the local community has a deeper pocket than the AH who drove off, so there is where to try and sue. Any successful lawyer will advise you of that. But blame the marginally paid 911 operators with (possibly) poor information? Get real on who is negligent. Michael ... and this really pisses me off. Hate the establishment, yet blame them when we (a supposed community) personally fail. Time to grow-up folks! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 8:14 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless File: death10a.gif File: haysd.jpggraphic=1 File: ATT00216.txt sorry, i never considered that someone would lock archives... kind of defeats the purpose. April 20, 2006; 12:15 p.m. High court rules against Hays family Comment on this article By Stephanie Sievers, Springfield bureau Photo: Terry Herbig This stretch of road along U.S. 150 is the area where the body of Doris Hayes, Orion, was discovered. She was found outside her car, which had run off the road and into a deep ravine on the east side of U.S. 150, about a mile and a half south of Coal Valley. More photos from this shoot Graphic: Submitted Doris Hays SPRINGFIELD - The Illinois Supreme Court has sided with local law enforcement, ruling today they were immune from liability even though they failed to come to the aid of Doris Hays, an Orion woman who died after a car accident. The 68-year-old woman died in 2002 after she wrecked her car on U.S. 150 near the Henry/Rock Island county line. A passerby called for help and the message was relayed to multiple law enforcement agencies, but no help ever arrived. Hays' body wasn't found until three days later. Her sister, Mary DeSmet, filed a wrongful-death lawsuit against a number of defendants, including Rock Island County and Sheriff Michael Grchan, Henry County and Sheriff Gilbert Cady, Orion, Moline and East Moline. The state's highest court agreed with lower courts that the lawsuit should be dismissed. The court found that although people have a right to expect police to respond to such a situation, authorities weren't liable under the Tort Immunity Act, which protects governmental entities and employees from lawsuits. There is an exception for willful and wanton behavior, but since law enforcement never responded or tried to enforce the law, that exception didn't apply in this case, wrote Justice Lloyd Karmeier, who penned the majority opinion. Ms. Hays' family appealed to the state's highest court after lower-level courts threw out the case on the grounds that governmental entities and employees were protected against the lawsuit by the Tort Immunity Act. Michael Rathsack, the appellate attorney for the family, said that, while lawmakers wanted to protect such groups from legal liability, the Hays case probably isn't what they had in mind. 'I don't think the legislature ever thought that somebody would call and they would say, 'We'll come,' and they don't come. That's the problem. We're trying to look at a statute that was never designed to address the situation,' he said. Law enforcement is granted fairly broad lawsuit protection even when it fails to provide adequate service. Mr. Rathsack was asking the
Re: [Biofuel] A little (more) clarification
Hi Bob Hi Keith, I'm sure you misunderstood the thread. I went back and had a look. It definitely says a little more clarification. You didn't just reply, you swamped me with several hours reading and chasing of urls linked to urls linked to... :) Anyway, you get the picture. :-) What did that guy say? I'd have written you a shorter letter but I didn't have the time. Knocked out by the revelation of your family connection to Groote Schuur. I'd be eating my heart out if it were me. I didn't want what would have come with it. I'd probably just have sold it like Abraham did and mooched off anyway, and left nothing for the descendants, nor any descendants not to leave it to either. As it was I found the house and garden highly evocative, soaked in an ambience of something not quite definable other than the very powerful feel that real people had coped with some very real and major issues there. An item I didn't include in my last post was the Nat Party junket at the house which featured the very public release of another of those glossy spindoctoring brochures about South Africa. The Minister of Information (yes, the very same who presided over the Information scandal) Connie Mulder? Sounds more like Eschel Rhoodie, but he was the Secretary not the Minister. Anyway... decided to make it a big event with foreign and local press, plus as many members of the cabinet and their wives as he could assemble. He chose the main hall at Groote Schuur, lined it with the notables, placed we scruffier sprigs of the Fourth Estate furthest from the bar and launched into his spin. My attention wandered slightly. Something at the edge of my peripheral vision was bothering me. I focused. It was Cecil himself, in that famous Cape painting, staring down from the wall at the far end. He was looking directly at the speaker's back with such an expression of outrage that I snorted loudly, nudged the journo next to me who passed on the joke. Soon half the press corp was snorting and giggling, so much so that the Speaker stopped and stared us into silence. I quickly shot a pic with a vague idea of working a satirical angle into the story. I kid you not, when the darkroom boys later send the pic down to the newsroom there was none of the quality my imagination had imbued. Rhodes was not even looking at the speaker and his expression was as lugubrious as ever. So much for mindset. The camera lied. Nice story, thanks. Thanks for the Orwell piece, some interesting points raised though I've always thought if he'd got himself laid more we could have been spared his excursions into literary criticism. I like his criticism. It must be 40 years since I first read that book, I think it's lasted well. I share Orwell's views on Kipling. He made one important point about Kipling's work: while the Rudyards have long ceased from Kipling and the Haggards ride no more his epigrammatic phrases still sprinkle the language while the critics have been forgotten. Well, Orwell and Eliot haven't been forgotten. Didn't you agree with what Orwell said about Kipling's written-in working-class accents? I wouldn't put Rider Haggard in the same box as Kipling. They were friends, and both were creatures of empire and of their times, but it doesn't go much further than that. I don't think Kipling's work was admired by Jung as was Haggard's, for instance, nor did Kipling write a masterly account of rural England and agriculture as did Haggard, nor could he have. Haggard has depths that aren't found in Kipling, and he wasn't an apologist. Kipling has faded more than Haggard has. Haggard hasn't really faded such a lot. A colonial administrator in South Africa 120 years ago who held strong views that blacks should rule themselves has some staying power. Quite a lot of Haggard has staying power, for quite a wide range of reasons. With Kipling, as Orwell says, it's mostly just children's books and the free fatty phrases that remain, and many of the phrases might as well have been written by Anon. I think Kipling's views and his world are as dated as the Pears Soap ad. You have to laugh at it now but it probably seemed perfectly normal and virtuous to Kipling. Give them Empire and Pears Soap, it's for their own good whether they like it or not. (Not to mention the Great Unwashed.) Empire and Soap might be an evolution of the Sword and the Bible, or just the Sword, but it hardly points the way forward, we've moved on since then even if some of our governments haven't. Africa renewed [Haggard's] faith in a world beyond conventional religion, and gave him a sense of morality greater than the narrow-minded White man's burden Enlightenment common-place, so pervasive among colonial writers. Instead in Haggard's works it is the white man who is in need of ministering and Africa that provides the enlightenment. - John Senior, Rhodes University, 1996. If that seems improbable, have you read Kurt Vonnegut's report from
[Biofuel] the authorities are most of our problems
all of the news clips here are from the last 5 years, and i have selected the articles with the most multi-paper repeats so these are not made up, or doctored, they can be searched and confirmed. police cause more trouble than they solve, and do not deserve to work in the public interest if they are going to be beating citizens like this. http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2003/12/16/miami_police/index.html http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/nov2002/wto-n19.shtml http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/02/1574148.php http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR8169.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
