[biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Domenick V. Amato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes. According to Webster's it is unsolicited usually commercial E-mail sent to a large number of addresses . Dom, Glad you took the time to look it up. His response was not un- solicited and it was sent to only one address, the Biofuels list. There was no comercial value in it. If you had read the thread, you would understand how this pertains to Biofuels. fred Dom - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 11:03 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. Also, do you know what spam really is (in terms of the internet and not hormel?) fred --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Fred Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Say Dom, Did you bother to look at the entire thread? Or are you the new self- appointed Topic-Cop? fred --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Domenick V. Amato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why don't you move your discussions to a group for which it is appropriate? You are certainly entitled to what ever political opinions you have and you are entitled to speak whatever you like. This, however, is NOT the place for it. It is SPAM relative to the topics for which this group is organized. To the extent that you continue with this political self-indulgence, you damage the purpose of this group. Dom Amato - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. As long as you care to stick your head in the sand you'll never find one, nor realize that this group is about as good as it gets short of breaking Biofuel down into individual sub-sets. Switching lists will not make biofuel of any sort any less political, as you would care to put it. It's your own politics that draw you into the field in the first place. Get over it or get out of it. Meanwhile, the rest of the world has a great stake in how international administrations handle issues that determine control and use of fossil fuels. Oddly enough, that includes war and rumours of war. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Tim Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:19 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. To whom it may concern: I am leaving this news group because it is anything but a news group about biofuel. I was hoping to learn a lot, but unfortunately it takes too long to sort through the unrelated emails. Does anyone know of a good discussion group where they stick to the subject matter and actually discuss producing biofuels and alternate energy sources. If so please let me know. I would love to get involved. -Original Message- From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 7:03 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 13:41 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. Greg, Compared to Iraq, North Korea are able and probably more disciplined/motivated and a lot more dangerous than the Iraqi army. I do no want to do any clear cut final military judgement, but it is my opinion. The threat is also of more geographical nature. They have WMDs, they are known to be in the arms business and are more likely to sell WMDs than Iraq. You are not joking there. I think the fact that North Korea has been for the most part quiet, is a factor of why were more willing to negotiate. It is not too difficult to wage war against a nation with 80% of the population under 16 and suppressed women. What a formidable global threat to the heroic US of A. Take away the old men
[biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
Greg, Thank you for the further clarification regarding the SPAM issue that Domenick brought up. BTW, Is the Abrams tank the one with the turbine? I like turbines, they pack a lot of punch in a small package. They make great flame throwers too! E-mail me off list if you want to hear what I did with one. fred --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One small problem Dom, by joining the list, you solicited all E- mail from it, not just this post and that post. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Domenick V. Amato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 07:19 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. Yes. According to Webster's it is unsolicited usually commercial E-mail sent to a large number of addresses . Dom Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
Say Dom, Did you bother to look at the entire thread? Or are you the new self- appointed Topic-Cop? fred --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Domenick V. Amato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why don't you move your discussions to a group for which it is appropriate? You are certainly entitled to what ever political opinions you have and you are entitled to speak whatever you like. This, however, is NOT the place for it. It is SPAM relative to the topics for which this group is organized. To the extent that you continue with this political self-indulgence, you damage the purpose of this group. Dom Amato - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. As long as you care to stick your head in the sand you'll never find one, nor realize that this group is about as good as it gets short of breaking Biofuel down into individual sub-sets. Switching lists will not make biofuel of any sort any less political, as you would care to put it. It's your own politics that draw you into the field in the first place. Get over it or get out of it. Meanwhile, the rest of the world has a great stake in how international administrations handle issues that determine control and use of fossil fuels. Oddly enough, that includes war and rumours of war. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Tim Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:19 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. To whom it may concern: I am leaving this news group because it is anything but a news group about biofuel. I was hoping to learn a lot, but unfortunately it takes too long to sort through the unrelated emails. Does anyone know of a good discussion group where they stick to the subject matter and actually discuss producing biofuels and alternate energy sources. If so please let me know. I would love to get involved. -Original Message- From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 7:03 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 13:41 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. Greg, Compared to Iraq, North Korea are able and probably more disciplined/motivated and a lot more dangerous than the Iraqi army. I do no want to do any clear cut final military judgement, but it is my opinion. The threat is also of more geographical nature. They have WMDs, they are known to be in the arms business and are more likely to sell WMDs than Iraq. You are not joking there. I think the fact that North Korea has been for the most part quiet, is a factor of why were more willing to negotiate. It is not too difficult to wage war against a nation with 80% of the population under 16 and suppressed women. What a formidable global threat to the heroic US of A. Take away the old men and the crippled from previous wars and it is only less than 10% of the population left to consider. The 5% that are left after the heroic US war, will be the ones who vote in a democratic society. It will be some time before women and children, the orphans and widows, get the right to vote and a majority will be violently anti American. I am sure that Hollywood will be able to disguise the realities long enough to give the Americans the be good feeling and also make quite a few bucks when they do it. Realities will come another day. Perhaps, but, I can't help but wonder if we can help make things better for them in the end, if we go in or not, the question will remain. I look at Germany and Japan, and how they were rebuilt from the end of WW2 and wonder if in 30 to 50 years if Iraq will be in a similar situation. Is a war against a majority of children and women the preferred choice or a little bit more patience. In my opinion a war is not a solution, but a proof of failure. The US hysteria about the risk that Iraq would do something to them, are more based assumed revenge feelings with the Iraqis, than any facts. Iraq have never, what I know about, attacked or performed a
[biofuel] Re: Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world.
Also, do you know what spam really is (in terms of the internet and not hormel?) fred --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Fred Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Say Dom, Did you bother to look at the entire thread? Or are you the new self- appointed Topic-Cop? fred --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Domenick V. Amato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why don't you move your discussions to a group for which it is appropriate? You are certainly entitled to what ever political opinions you have and you are entitled to speak whatever you like. This, however, is NOT the place for it. It is SPAM relative to the topics for which this group is organized. To the extent that you continue with this political self-indulgence, you damage the purpose of this group. Dom Amato - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. As long as you care to stick your head in the sand you'll never find one, nor realize that this group is about as good as it gets short of breaking Biofuel down into individual sub-sets. Switching lists will not make biofuel of any sort any less political, as you would care to put it. It's your own politics that draw you into the field in the first place. Get over it or get out of it. Meanwhile, the rest of the world has a great stake in how international administrations handle issues that determine control and use of fossil fuels. Oddly enough, that includes war and rumours of war. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Tim Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:19 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. To whom it may concern: I am leaving this news group because it is anything but a news group about biofuel. I was hoping to learn a lot, but unfortunately it takes too long to sort through the unrelated emails. Does anyone know of a good discussion group where they stick to the subject matter and actually discuss producing biofuels and alternate energy sources. If so please let me know. I would love to get involved. -Original Message- From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 7:03 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 13:41 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Just one man's observation! Was: Looking at the RESPONSE ... too all that's going onin the world. Greg, Compared to Iraq, North Korea are able and probably more disciplined/motivated and a lot more dangerous than the Iraqi army. I do no want to do any clear cut final military judgement, but it is my opinion. The threat is also of more geographical nature. They have WMDs, they are known to be in the arms business and are more likely to sell WMDs than Iraq. You are not joking there. I think the fact that North Korea has been for the most part quiet, is a factor of why were more willing to negotiate. It is not too difficult to wage war against a nation with 80% of the population under 16 and suppressed women. What a formidable global threat to the heroic US of A. Take away the old men and the crippled from previous wars and it is only less than 10% of the population left to consider. The 5% that are left after the heroic US war, will be the ones who vote in a democratic society. It will be some time before women and children, the orphans and widows, get the right to vote and a majority will be violently anti American. I am sure that Hollywood will be able to disguise the realities long enough to give the Americans the be good feeling and also make quite a few bucks when they do it. Realities will come another day. Perhaps, but, I can't help but wonder if we can help make things better for them in the end, if we go in or not, the question will remain. I look at Germany and Japan, and how they were rebuilt from the end of WW2 and wonder if in 30 to 50 years if Iraq will be in a similar situation. Is a war against a majority of children
[biofuel] Re: Stainless steel drums
I just bought an overrun stainless barrell from skolnik. The cost of this new overrun we $225.00. Stainless rocks. No rust and that works well for fungi. When I called about 2 months ago they had like 60 of them in stock. Worth a shot for a good new barrel cheap. fred --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forwards from the Distillers list: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: waljaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:13:34 - Subject: [Distillers] SS drums in the U.S. Came across a site specializing in steel drums (including salvage drums and barrels) which would be suitable for distillers - http://www.skolnik.com Wal To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Robert Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:49:29 +1300 Subject: [Distillers] Stainless Drums For those residing in Oz, The Visypack plant in Brisbane produces a food-grade 60 litre stainless steel drum. The version that I was interested in was described as having a full open lid, retained with a clamp and nitrile (alcohol impervious) gasket. While I haven't seen one in the flesh, it sounds ideal for a boiler. At the time I made enquiries (Dec '02), Visypack's address was: Oxford St, Bulimda, but they were soon to shift to: 40 Ingham Place, Hammett. The contact person is a Jim Klaer (pronounced clear), Phone no. in Brisbane: 3890 9777. Price: Aus$154.66. For those (like me) residing in NZ, my original enquiries were through Visypack NZ, but with freight etc. the price became prohibitive. At this stage, I'm waiting for someone flying to Brisbane to bring me one back as unaccompanied baggage! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Tell Me It's Not True!! was: Torture Tactics - Yes, in America was
Is this how Americans are seen on the international stage? Or are My lazy Liberal Pansy Ass Whimperings how we are viewed? fred --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, hobbbes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yo Kirk, You are hardly worth a response...when WAR becomes a necessity...you take action plain and simple you go in with the largest force you can muster and get the job done quickly...thats how you get to be known as a Super Power...it does not mean everyone will agree with your reponse...so either supprt the United States or stop sending me your liberal pansy ass whimpering... - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 7:04 PM Subject: RE: Torture Tactics - Yes, in America was Re: [biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq That is how it starts. Then someone decides to get even. Then blood flows. :( Kirk -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 6:18 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Torture Tactics - Yes, in America was Re: [biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq Fur Free Friday at 7th and Nicollett in Minneapolis Minnesota, the day after thanksgiving 1999. Protesters who were chained together were placed in a choke hold by law enforcement. Pepper spray was administered to a swab and applied to each protester. There was no reason for this other than torture. I was there, I saw this happen. Too bad I did not have a camera. Same thing, different day You should see the movie. (Yes. It is on tape.) http://www.radioproject.org/transcripts/9926.html In its report Amnesty International said that in this instance the spray was clearly abusive as it was not used to protect officers or others but was applied in a calculated and deliberate way to inflict pain as a way of gaining compliance in cases of demonstrators who posed no threat. The later half of the program moves off of the intentional abuse aspect and towards effectiveness issues. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq
. Perhaps following the treaty agreement would change his situation. Killing hundreds of thousands (or millions) will not make anything better for anyone. Were is your proof that hundreds of thousands will die? They said it would happen in the Gulf War, it didn't. Yes a civilian shelter got hit, but, it housed a military target in the basement, and we didn't know that it was also a civilian shelter. Hundreds of thousands have already died as a result of the sanctions put in place. If we are planning on using a military then high numbers should be expected. civilian and military on both sides. So big oil does not have a hand in the conflict? Were did I say that? All I have said is that I hear a lot of accusations, see a lot of finger pointing, but, unlikely. Possable most anything is, probable - no I don't think so. Again, we disagree. We went 9 years without a peep from the human hermit and all of a sudden over the last 2-3 years it has become imparative that we remove him from the world political scene? Wrong again, You may not have been paying attention as he played his game since the Gulf War, but, I have. He has been kicked inspectors out of Iraq, several times, since the end of the Gulf War. Finally we have a president that has the guts to at least do something, other than snivel and complain how people just misunderstand him. The president does not have guts, he is finally following through on a campaign promise. I would be willing to bet that this is what he thinks will keep him in office for another term. Last year there was nothing that required the attention that he is getting now. So what has changed? Like I said before, we finally we have a president that has the guts to not put up with Saddam's BS. This has Saddam worried for once, and he does not like it. I would repeat my statement about the campaign thing but it would be redundent. I will tell you what has changed. Big oil has it's collective hand up GW's butt and is making him talk crap about a country that has next to nothing for a military. Ah yes... the poor little country with no defenses. Your poor little country despite the ass kicking it got, still has a larger military than most of it's neighbors. Because it has been rebuilt to an extent at the cost of it's people. If Iraq were my little country we would be playing nice. My little country (that would be the Good ol' US of A) isn't playing nice. Speaking in terms of the World Community my handgun reference was right on. I have a kooky neighbor that likes guns. I am worried everytime he has a beer and is showing his friends one of his numerous weapons. Your neighbor might say that your kooky, for not liking guns, but that is not the point, it all relitave. As to your neighbor, if he breaks the law call the police. Don't forget, nothing at all says that the police have to protect you and prevent harm coming to you and your family or property, nothing at all. So you are saying that a pre-emptive strike is what should be done? And if I call the police I should expect nothing? Given the standard set by GW should I run into his house and change the regime? I think not. If we go in and assume that this is good for us to do what if France decides that since we have numerous WOMD that we should have a regime change and masses troops in Quebec? Treaties be damed. Your missing the point, Saddam has failed to comply with a Peace Treaty, and several UN resolutions. When is he finally going to comply? The US on the other hand, has bent over backward with treaties as that concern WOMD. We could leave him alone and isolated. It worked for 9 years. Wrong again, all it did was make him think that he can get away with more. We left him alone after the Iraq / Iran war, what did he do? He went into Kuwait, and caused acts to be committed that almost put him on par with the Talaban in some cases. Do not forget that we wanted him to fight with Iran. We gave him the military money and knowlege to fight. We created this monster. According to some the invasion of Kuwait was okayed by the Bush I administration. I am not sure weather I believe that or not. I have not seen any evidence to sway me to that conclusion or not. Ahh yes the love it or leave it statement. Greg, I am going to stick around and be the pain in the ass that the US needs. I will not give up the fight for right. Your right what? I could get into that but it would take all day to explain and you would not get it anyway. Your basic freedoms? They went out with the gutting of the 4th amendment, the patriot act and various other legislation that has been enacted since 9/11. I have news for you, the constitution and the amendments have been under attack for a long time now. If you think that 9-11 is the
[biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq
Ah yes... the poor little country with no defenses. Your poor little country despite the ass kicking it got, still has a larger military than most of it's neighbors. Because it has been rebuilt to an extent at the cost of it's people. If Iraq were my little country we would be playing nice. My little country (that would be the Good ol' US of A) isn't playing nice. I think you are starting to see the point, Iraq is not playing nice, and so someone has to do something about it because the UN is not. I ge the feeling that you seem to think that Saddam is going to attack the US? Is this fact? Has his regime done something to warrent these feelings or are you just feeling the parinoia sorrounding the policies that are being rammed in our faces by the current administration? So you are saying that a pre-emptive strike is what should be done? And if I call the police I should expect nothing? *snip of a silly story about my neighbor that had little to do with the topic* Do not forget that we wanted him to fight with Iran. We gave him the military money and knowlege to fight. We didn't give him arms for that fight. At best, we wanted him and Iran to knock them selves senseless. They did just that and as a result got the technologies to knock other countries silly. We created this monster. According to some the invasion of Kuwait was okayed by the Bush I administration. I am not sure weather I believe that or not. I have not seen any evidence to sway me to that conclusion or not. This isn't the case at all, but, someone else addressed that. Ahh yes the love it or leave it statement. Greg, I am going to stick around and be the pain in the ass that the US needs. I will not give up the fight for right. Your right what? I could get into that but it would take all day to explain and you would not get it anyway. My point is, that which is right for you is not necessarily right for me. So it is better for me to have you ram your ideas in my face and shut up? I don't think so. You have to listen to my rants and ideas too! We have been loosing our freedoms for decades. I already said that. 9/11 was another trigger to erode the freedoms we already have. I can attack the 2nd amendment if I choose. It is another freedom that I still have. That's fine, but the problem is you can not attack one part of the constitution, with out putting the whole concept in question and from there into danger. So being searched without cause doesn't bother you? I have traveled internationally this last year to get my daughter as a matter of fact. The result of that trip is I will not ever fly again. No money for the airlines from me. No great loss? Now is a matter of defining reasonable cause. In some circles just denying a request for search, gives suspicion, and there for cause. I don't hold with that unless there are other factors in involved like the safety of a officer of the law or coming in contact with a government official ( aka governors, presidents, ect...) and similar such, then it is reasonable. Search based on profiling is sometimes a necessary evil, personally I don't like it, it backfires ( like the MD sniper shootings ). It also causes negative reactions. So we can agree that you don't like being searched without cause? As far as flying, it has become a necessary evil. Do you want to fly on an aircraft that is hijacked? I don't. I find it reasonable that I might be searched, if I fly, if and when things settle down then perhaps it will become less reasonable. If you stop and think about it, even before 9/11, every time you went down a concourse and through a metal detector, you were searched. The stuff that is going on now, is just a simple and logical extension ( of the search that you allowed every time you went through a metal detector ) brought on by 9/11. Granted some of the things that happened ( no cups of coffee, baby bottles with breast milk in them, and the like ) were stupid, but, understandable given the steep learning curve that was thrown at us at the time. They are trying like hell to stifle any speech that they don't like. According to the current administration freedom of speech is good for you only when we agree. Not true, it was used that was with the last administration, even more so. Freedom of thought is already being used as a means of imprisoning US citizens. Just ask Jose Padilla. He is sitting in US custody in South Carolina for stepping off of a plane and perhaps thinking of doing something. He did nothing and will rot in jail as long as Ashcroft wants him there. He joined a known terrorist organization, that had fought a war with the U.S., and was thinking of committing a terrorist act. He may not
[biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq
Okay greg, whatever, you're right. It seems that this conversation with you will not budge either of us off of our beliefs. I am against war because of the human factor and greif that the world will suffer. If that makes me un-American fine. have a nice day, fred --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 12:57 Subject: [biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq I ge the feeling that you seem to think that Saddam is going to attack the US? Is this fact? Has his regime done something to warrent these feelings or are you just feeling the parinoia sorrounding the policies that are being rammed in our faces by the current administration? You just don't get it do you, it isn't just the U.S., never has been despite what what alot of people think. It is the U.A.E., Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Israil, and others in the area that while they may or may not like or dislike the U.S., They see Iraq as a threat. *snip of a silly story about my neighbor that had little to do with the topic* An analogy always has something to do with the subject. I could get into that but it would take all day to explain and you would not get it anyway. My point is, that which is right for you is not necessarily right for me. So it is better for me to have you ram your ideas in my face and shut up? I don't think so. You have to listen to my rants and ideas too! I never said that and you know it. You seem to think that I have to listen to you spout about how you are fighting for rights, well, are your rights better than mine? Now is a matter of defining reasonable cause. In some circles just denying a request for search, gives suspicion, and there for cause. I don't hold with that unless there are other factors in involved like the safety of a officer of the law or coming in contact with a government official ( aka governors, presidents, ect...) and similar such, then it is reasonable. Search based on profiling is sometimes a necessary evil, personally I don't like it, it backfires ( like the MD sniper shootings ). It also causes negative reactions. So we can agree that you don't like being searched without cause? Read the qualifier, Reasionable Cause, not just cause but, reasionable cause. Big differance. Who? What torture? Fur Free Friday at 7th and Nicollett in Minneapolis Minnesota, the day after thanksgiving 1999. Protesters who were chained together were placed in a choke hold by law enforcement. Pepper spray was administered to a swab and applied to each protester. There was no reason for this other than torture. I was there, I saw this happen. Too bad I did not have a camera. Yes, then we might know if they were resisting arrest or not. That makes a difference. If they were then the police were with in the bounds of the law. If they were not then the police were not. Don't forget a lawful order from a police officer is also reasonable cause for the use of force if it is deemed necessary. Then you have been ignoring the fact that he has been rebuilding his military, again becoming a treat to the region. And the fact that he has been giving the UN the middle finger by kicking the inspection teams out time and not other wise cooperating. Show proof of his rebuilding the military? With what? He has nothing to rebuild with? From the transcript of chief U.N. arms inspector Hans Blix's testimony before the United Nations: In my January update to the Council I referred to the Al-Samud II and the Al-Fatah missiles, reconstituted casting chambers, construction of a missile engine test stand and the import of rocket engines, which were all declared to UNMOVIC by Iraq. I noted that the Al-Samud II and the Al-Fatah could very well represent prima facie cases of proscribed missile systems, as they had been tested to ranges exceeding the 150-kilometers limit set by the Security Council. I also noted that Iraq had been requested to cease flight test of these missiles until UNMOVIC completed a technical review. Earlier this week, UNMOVIC missile experts met for two days with experts from a number of member states to discuss these items. The experts concluded unanimously that, based on the data provided by Iraq, the two declared variants of the Al-Samud II missile were capable of exceeding 150 kilometers in range. This missile system is therefore proscribed for Iraq pursuant to Resolution 687 and the monitoring plan adopted by Resolution 715. As for the Al-Fatah, the experts found that clarification of the missile data supplied by Iraq was required before the capability of the missile system could be fully
[biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq
Keith, Most every thing I saw about it, said that this was being done for the oil. True or not, can we really afford a mentally ill egoist that thinks that he won the gulf war, to run around with biological and chemical weapons? You are right, George Bush should not be allowed to have any of those items. WOMD are bad even for the good ol' US of A!! Then that would show the world once and for all that the U.S. really is the bad guy, and wants the oil. Greg, The reason for all this garbage going on in the region is oil and nothing more. If we were concerned with only the politics and there was no oil we would let the middle east be the desert that it is. Unfortunately we have only big oil interests running the policys in the name of America. If we just got out and said no to oil it could be a desert and Saddam could rule the rats and snakes in the desert. I don't really give a rat's ass about the oil my self, but, there are a few things that just don't add up as far as Iraq is concerned, and they need to be taken care of once and for all. Isolation has pretty much destroyed Iraq. War might be a fun little distraction for people just trying to get by in their situation. Too bad that killing them will be the end result. As far as France, Germany, and Russia is concerned, they are making money hand over fist, in this situation, that is why they are against it, no more no less, certainly not because of any moral concerns, unless, making money is a moral issue. If it were truly a moral issue, then why is Germany sending it's solders to fill in for U.S. solders when U.S. solders are being reassigned to the gulf? If it were truly a moral issue, then, why is local Arabs, trying to get Hussein to leave the country and / or get some of his generals to stage a coup? To many things don't add up for it to be a truly moral issue, and it's time to get it over and done with it. It is a money issue. Saddam is making money (however little) from humanitarian food for oil programs. Germany is making money. GW wants his oil buddies to make the money instead. Wouldn't it be ironic if the U.S. and other forces go in, and get hit with the very weapons Iraq says it doesn't have? Would that be enough of a smoking gun for the rest of the world? I can't help, but, wonder what France, Germany, Russia and the others that say there is no proof / not enough proof, would do then. I would rather see Saddam sit on whatever stockpile of weapons he has and do nothing. There is nothing wrong with a country defending itself. Just ask the good ol' US of A to give up its handguns and rifles. You would hear everyone scream bloody murder. Saddam is doing the same thing. He has an interest in defending his country. To Iraq I say, stop playing games, and show the world your good intentions, if you really have any. The longer the game playing you pull goes on, the worse it will be for everyone, not just you, not just the U.S.. but, the entire world. whatever, To the rest of the world, I say, get your butts in gear. The blasted UN is truly nothing more than a high school debating society at this point. The sooner you stop playing your own games for profit, and get down to business, the sooner you will not have to deal with nations like Iraq and North Korea, and the sooner the U.S. will stop acting like the so called bully you call it. We are tired of being the worlds policeman, but, we have to because no one else is willing of doing the job and get it done, unlike many other jobs, this one is probably the dirtiest there is. As for me I'm sick and tired of someone calling me the spawn of saitan and wanting to kill me because I believe in ideals that allow them to think as they do. I'm sick and tired of a couple of low life two bit little dictators that are dragging their heals as far a world peace is concerned ( Iraq and North Korea ). Perhaps we should go in, and then seal the oil wells, so that no one can have the oil, would that make every one happy? I doubt it. Let's face it, it does not matter what happens, someone is going to bitch. It seems that is all the UN is concerned about Oh no, we offended someone . Fine then if someone is going to bitch, let's get it over and done with, at this point that is all I want. I am sick and tired of everyone telling me what they want in this world. Greg, why don't you tell me what you are willing to give up to have what you want? Everyone seems to tell everyone that they have a right to do this and that but no one wants to tell anyone what their responsibilities are when it comes to what those rights are. Do you want to live in a world of fear? Occupy even a small part of Iraq for a short time and 9/11 will seem like a picnic. There will be fundamentalist freaks coming out of the woodwork. Do you want cheap oil? Not gonna get it!
[biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq
WOMD are bad for everyone, and you know damn well I was talking about Hussein, if you didn't, you should check his psychological profile, it is one of the worst, almost on par with Hitler. Besides, another problem with your reply is that the GB, did win the war, and Saddam did not, this in it's self cast doubt on your entire argument. WOMD should be confined to the nations non-rogue nations that are willing to reduce. If this was a perfect world ( HAH ), the nuclear genie would go back into the bottle, so he has to be confined, by force if necessary. * I made the comment tongue in cheek * That's funny, I don't know of oil in the former Yugoslavia, Bosnia, and several other places that we have gone into when the politics and unrest demanded it, I'm sure there was not any in Grenada. Pardon me Greg, I was speaking specifically about the conflict in the middle east and the US involvement in it. Bosnia, Somali, Vietnam etc had nothing to do with oil and the US would not have gotten involved if no one said a word. Rawanda and Barundi was awash in blood and the US did not do a damn thing. Conflict in the Sudan and Nigeria have cost more lives than any conflict in the Middle east and We are not doing anything. So yes it is about oil. Grenada was about US Security against nothing. The raid of the island was an excersize in futility. Isolation has pretty much destroyed Iraq. War might be a fun little distraction for people just trying to get by in their situation. Too bad that killing them will be the end result. That is a side effect that you can thank Saddam for. All he has to do is abide by the gulf war peace treaty, and his country would not be in the mess it is in. Perhaps following the treaty agreement would change his situation. Killing hundreds of thousands (or millions) will not make anything better for anyone. It is a money issue. Saddam is making money (however little) from humanitarian food for oil programs. Germany is making money. GW wants his oil buddies to make the money instead. So you say. I have seen less in the way of evidence as far as this is concerned than Iraq not having WOMD. So big oil does not have a hand in the conflict? We went 9 years without a peep from the human hermit and all of a sudden over the last 2-3 years it has become imparative that we remove him from the world political scene? Last year there was nothing that required the attention that he is getting now. So what has changed? I will tell you what has changed. Big oil has it's collective hand up GW's butt and is making him talk crap about a country that has next to nothing for a military. I would rather see Saddam sit on whatever stockpile of weapons he has and do nothing. There is nothing wrong with a country defending itself. Just ask the good ol' US of A to give up its handguns and rifles. You would hear everyone scream bloody murder. Saddam is doing the same thing. He has an interest in defending his country. Now you are mixing apples and oranges. Saddam is one of two very unstable world leaders (the other living in North Korea), and he has shown a record of attacking nearby countries without provocation. On the other hand the good ol' US of A as you put it, has been reducing and in some cases totally eliminating various classes of WOMD. The hand guns and rifles are in the hands of private citizens not the nation. Some private citizens of Iraq, own their own firearms, I sorry to tell you this, but, we are not asking them to give them up. Nor are we asking him to totally disarm, but, to become compliant with the peace treaty signed after the Gulf War. Big difference. Speaking in terms of the World Community my handgun reference was right on. I have a kooky neighbor that likes guns. I am worried everytime he has a beer and is showing his friends one of his numerous weapons. Given the standard set by GW should I run into his house and change the regime? I think not. If we go in and assume that this is good for us to do what if France decides that since we have numerous WOMD that we should have a regime change and masses troops in Quebec? Treaties be damed. To Iraq I say, stop playing games, and show the world your good intentions, if you really have any. The longer the game playing you pull goes on, the worse it will be for everyone, not just you, not just the U.S.. but, the entire world. whatever, Whatever what? It's that simple if Saddam would quit playing his games, then this whole thing will end sooner and we would all be better off. Could it be your enjoying it all? We could leave him alone and isolated. It worked for 9 years. I am sick and tired of everyone telling me what they want in this world. So what? If you stick around this list, your going to here it allot
[biofuel] YOUR ASSISTANCE IS REQUIRED!
URGENT ASSISTANCE - FROM USA IMMEDIATE ATTENTION NEEDED : HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL FROM: GEORGE WALKER BUSH 202.456.1414 / 202.456. FAX: 202.456.2461 DEAR SIR / MADAM, I AM GEORGE WALKER BUSH, SON OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH, AND CURRENTLY SERVING AS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. THIS LETTER MIGHT SURPRISE YOU BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT MET NEITHER IN PERSON NOR BY CORRESPONDENCE. I CAME TO KNOW OF YOU IN MY SEARCH FOR A RELIABLE AND REPUTABLE PERSON TO HANDLE A VERY CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS TRANSACTION, WHICH INVOLVES THE TRANSFER OF A HUGE SUM OF MONEY TO AN ACCOUNT REQUIRING MAXIMUM CONFIDENCE. I AM WRITING YOU IN ABSOLUTE CONFIDENCE PRIMARILY TO SEEK YOUR ASSISTANCE IN ACQUIRING OIL FUNDS THAT ARE PRESENTLY TRAPPED IN THE REPUBLIC OF IRAQ. MY PARTNERS AND I SOLICIT YOUR ASSISTANCE IN COMPLETING A TRANSACTION BEGUN BY MY FATHER, WHO HAS LONG BEEN ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN THE EXTRACTION OF PETROLEUM IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND BRAVELY SERVED HIS COUNTRY AS DIRECTOR OF THE UNITED STATES CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY. IN THE DECADE OF THE NINETEEN-EIGHTIES, MY FATHER, THEN VICE- PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, SOUGHT TO WORK WITH THE GOOD OFFICES OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF IRAQ TO REGAIN LOST OIL REVENUE SOURCES IN THE NEIGHBORING ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN. THIS UNSUCCESSFUL VENTURE WAS SOON FOLLOWED BY A FALLING-OUT WITH HIS IRAQI PARTNER, WHO SOUGHT TO ACQUIRE ADDITIONAL OIL REVENUE SOURCES IN THE NEIGHBORING EMIRATE OF KUWAIT, A WHOLLY-OWNED U.S.-BRITISH SUBSIDIARY. MY FATHER RE-SECURED THE PETROLEUM ASSETS OF KUWAIT IN 1991 AT A COST OF SIXTY-ONE BILLION U.S. DOLLARS ($61,000,000,000). OUT OF THAT COST, THIRTY-SIX BILLION DOLLARS ($36,000,000,000) WERE SUPPLIED BY HIS PARTNERS IN THE KINGDOM OF SAUDI ARABIA AND OTHER PERSIAN GULF MONARCHIES, AND SIXTEEN BILLION DOLLARS ($16,000,000,000) BY GERMAN AND JAPANESE PARTNERS. BUT MY FATHER'S FORMER IRAQI BUSINESS PARTNER REMAINED IN CONTROL OF THE REPUBLIC OF IRAQ AND ITS PETROLEUM RESERVES. MY FAMILY IS CALLING FOR YOUR URGENT ASSISTANCE IN FUNDING THE REMOVAL OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF IRAQ AND ACQUIRING THE PETROLEUM ASSETS OF HIS COUNTRY, AS COMPENSATION FOR THE COSTS OF REMOVING HIM FROM POWER. UNFORTUNATELY, OUR PARTNERS FROM 1991 ARE NOT WILLING TO SHOULDER THE BURDEN OF THIS NEW VENTURE, WHICH IN ITS UPCOMING PHASE MAY COST THE SUM OF 100 BILLION TO 200 BILLION DOLLARS ($100,000,000,000 - $200,000,000,000), BOTH IN THE INITIAL ACQUISITION AND IN LONG-TERM MANAGEMENT. WITHOUT THE FUNDS FROM OUR 1991 PARTNERS, WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ACQUIRE THE OIL REVENUE TRAPPED WITHIN IRAQ. THAT IS WHY MY FAMILY AND OUR COLLEAGUES ARE URGENTLY SEEKING YOUR GRACIOUS ASSISTANCE. OUR DISTINGUISHED COLLEAGUES IN THIS BUSINESS TRANSACTION INCLUDE THE SITTING VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, RICHARD CHENEY, WHO IS AN ORIGINAL PARTNER IN THE IRAQ VENTURE AND FORMER HEAD OF THE HALLIBURTON OIL COMPANY, AND CONDOLEEZA RICE, WHOSE PROFESSIONAL DEDICATION TO THE VENTURE WAS DEMONSTRATED IN THE NAMING OF A CHEVRON OIL TANKER AFTER HER. I WOULD BESEECH YOU TO TRANSFER A SUM EQUALING TEN TO TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT (10-25 %) OF YOUR YEARLY INCOME TO OUR ACCOUNT TO AID IN THIS IMPORTANT VENTURE. THE INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WILL FUNCTION AS OUR TRUSTED INTERMEDIARY. I PROPOSE THAT YOU MAKE THIS TRANSFER BEFORE THE FIFTEENTH (15TH) OF THE MONTH OF APRIL. I KNOW THAT A TRANSACTION OF THIS MAGNITUDE WOULD MAKE ANYONE APPREHENSIVE AND WORRIED. BUT I AM ASSURING YOU THAT ALL WILL BE WELL AT THE END OF THE DAY. A BOLD STEP TAKEN SHALL NOT BE REGRETTED, I ASSURE YOU. PLEASE DO BE INFORMED THAT THIS BUSINESS TRANSACTION IS 100% LEGAL. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO CO-OPERATE IN THIS TRANSACTION, PLEASE CONTACT OUR INTERMEDIARY REPRESENTATIVES TO FURTHER DISCUSS THE MATTER. I PRAY THAT YOU UNDERSTAND OUR PLIGHT. MY FAMILY AND OUR COLLEAGUES WILL BE FOREVER GRATEFUL. PLEASE REPLY IN STRICT CONFIDENCE TO THE CONTACT NUMBERS BELOW. SINCERELY WITH WARM REGARDS, GEORGE WALKER BUSH Switchboard: 202.456.1414 Comments: 202.456. Fax: 202.456.2461 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] A DPV - Dog Powered Vehicle, (Fer Real)
This is from one of the frame builders off of my HPV group. I thought it was so creative that I just had to share it with all of you. fred Since the list is a bit slow lately, I thought I'd mention my latest commission. A DPV (Dog Powered Vehicle). http://www.stan3d.com/nudgecart/nudgecart.htm Nudge weighs 180 lbs and is 34 tall at the shoulders. He has cancer in one front leg. The wheels are 16 and 10. He is so Protective (ie. nasty) that they have to walk him late at night when there is no one around. They live 2 houses down from us and I've never seen the dog in person. The owner said that If I want to see the cart in action they would phone me the next time they go out. But I would have to stay across the street to avoid setting him off. Mark Stonich; BikeSmith Design Fabrication http://bikesmithdesign.com MNHPVA RECUMBENTS MINNESOTA Home Page: http://www.mnhpva.org Group Page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RecumbentsMN Post message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send a blank message to: recumbentsmn- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: OT - Nation's SUV Critics Are Gaining Traction
Jessup, If you are referring to Harmon as a Good Samaritain Green you are way off the mark. Harmon has advocated violence on many occasions. If you are going to bring up the point that you are a Good Off- roading Citizen, then you need to wear the colors of the jerk that insists on taking his vehicle through private property just for the fun of it. I was too a trail ridin' Tread Lightly off road runner. Many times I ended upside-down having the time of my life. It got too expensive for me and I decided that I would rather have tons of fun either riding my bicycle or see if I could build a moped that was capable of hauling my big butt around. I have done both and love it. If you choose to ride trails, be gentle and respectful. Also remember that you are going to be labeled with the fool that tries to do as much damage as possible with no regard to who may own the property. Just don't get into a pissing contest (sorry for the colorful language Keith) with everyone that disagrees with your views, it is not worth it. I needed to chime in on this one. fred --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, coachgeo3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I don't scare off to easy sorry that offends you. I have the right to voice my opinion as much as others. It's called standing up for what you believe in. Gee funny that when the supposedly earth friendly Green folk stand their ground over and over it is ok but when someone against their views does it... then it is evil. Shows right there the intolerance and narrow mindedness in the air. Sounds like those that once stood their ground bashing Negro's and Gay's. Tsk Tsk. Will some never learn. You will notice that none of my words every sited that I as on offroader resorted to violence and a few of the so called Good Samaritan Green folk responses did claim to or threaten too. So who is the good people here. In fact I have never heard of an offroader even speak, or write as evil of responses as I got previously much less resort to violence or threat of it toward persons and property. The sad thing is in this post you aired out your dirty laundry like a badge to wear. And if you really want to know, I got several emails off list by other offroaders who are members of this list in support of my comments last time and this. Many don't care to deal with the raging intolerance and narrow mindedness cause often these poor souls cause themselves harm all on their own with out much help. I, on the the other hand feel though some of them on the way to harming themselfs harm a few good people too so at times I speak out. Not often... maybe not often enough Sharing the earth responsibly GP Jessup III-coachgeo3 (notice I don't give a shiat if you put my name out there... its been there all along. BTW··. Was pointing out my name so quickly meant to be a subliminal threat? If so Im shaking in my boots. NAUGH --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: GP Jessup III-coachgeo3, has it somehow slipped your mind that you've stated this case here before, and very much got the worst of it? Now you come back a few months later and say it all over again as if it never happened, using the arguments that got you such a drubbing last time. I'm sorry, but that's just boring - if you really have forgotten it all, then please go to the archives and look up the thread Open Season on Open Space, plus associated threads, and if you still want to be so bold then try to find an argument that didn't get blown away last time. You can start here if you like: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=15122list=BIOFUEL Fairly typical of the response you got: Harmon, The tire spikes and razor wire may be a little severe but, I can empathise with your disgust. I have personally left a couple of dickheads laying crumpled in the dust(one got a good left hook and the other a nice kick in the balls) for their blatant disregard for my right to keep my property free from earth abusers. I believe that there will come a time real soon where people who commit crimes against the earth will be prosecuted with equal fervor as those who commit crimes against people. kris --- harmonseaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], coachgeo3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am an avide offroader and we have seen PUBLIC land closed to the PUBLIC way to much. Yes... their are peope who abuse the land but lets punish that small percentage not the larger percentage of those who do not. All, and I mean *ALL*, motorized offroad use needs to be stopped ASAP. And that includes motorboats. There's just no excuse for polluting and using up precious resources for recreation. The noise factor alone is reason
