Re: [Biofuel] Methanol as a motor fuel

[Jan Warnqvist]

Darryl, methanol is already used as motor fuel in Indy Car and Speedway. 
Metanol is similar to ethanol, but more. It means that of all properties 
that ethanol has, methanol has more of them. Methanol is slightly more 
corrosive than water and has an oxygene content of 50% by weight. The flash 
point is slightly lower than for ethanol. Incomplete combustion of methanol 
generates formaldehyde and other toxic substances. It is also known that 
methanol can cause wear in excess in connection with the motor oil , unless 
the oil is specially suited for methanol. Your vehicle will consume double 
the amount of fuel compared to gasoline and cold starts will be very 
difficult unless you add some gasoline to the metanol fuel.
However, you can expect a very high fuel effiency if your motor is fully 
adapted to the methanol fuel.
That is the brief version, I also have designed a method for purification of 
sulfate methanol (derived from paper pulping) but that technology is 
currently classfied due to pending patent.

I hope this information did not scar you off, but increased your curiosity.

Best
Jan Warnqvisr

-Ursprungligt meddelande- 
From: Darryl McMahon

Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 4:03 PM
To: Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Methanol as a motor fuel

In Canada, it is illegal to produce ethanol for fuel without a federal
permit, and these are effectively never granted to a home brewer.

I have been pondering the idea of using methanol (wood alcohol) as an
alternative to ethanol fuel, but have not taken the time to research it.

Has somebody else already done this, and can save me the effort?

My recollection is it is possible to use methanol as a motor fuel, which
is supported by this document.

https://web.anl.gov/PCS/acsfuel/preprint%20archive/Files/20_2_PHILADELPHIA_04-75_0059.pdf

I know that during the war years (1939 to 1945), a number of people ran
engines on wood gas (the images of large gas bladders on vehicle roof
racks come easily to mind).

I do have access to wood waste and fruit waste material, but working
space is at a premium.  Also, the processes I see seem to be based on
having process heat available (e.g., for pyrolysis).  However, I don't
think I need a lot - our third vehicle travels about 400 km a month, and
I figure the methanol will only displace about 20 litres a month of
gasoline at a maximum, probably less.

I can buy methanol commercially, but in small quantities (retail), it is
more expensive than gasoline.  However, could be an option for
experimentation in the vehicle before committing to home production.

I also have not yet investigated regulatory and safety issues, but
expect the latter to be manageable.

Thoughts, experience, pointers to relevant experience or information?


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Re: [Biofuel] Keith Addison passed away

[Jan Warnqvist]

My sincere condolences to you Midori. Keith´s life work has been of immense 
importance to many people and we are all in debt to him for his comittment 
and doings.


Jan Warnqvist

-Ursprungligt meddelande- 
From: David Penfold

Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 2:28 PM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Keith Addison passed away

Sincere condolences to you, Midori, and anyone who knew Keith.

He has been an inspiration and helped spark my interest in many
alternative technologies.

David Penfold
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Re: [Biofuel] Used mustard oil is the new source of bio-diesel, thanks to AMU students

[Jan Warnqvist]

Interesting. Mustard oil have usually high levels of erucic acid (C22:1) 
and is usually disregarded by biodieselers because of that content. It is 
assumed that biodiesel with erucic acid is hard to comply to both EN and 
ASTM standards due to the increased boiling point and decreased ester 
content. The thumb rule is, that longer the fatty acid chain, the more 
difficult the alkylation.  Would be nice to see some data from their 
experiments.


-Ursprungligt meddelande- 
From: Darryl McMahon

Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 7:18 PM
To: Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Used mustard oil is the new source of bio-diesel,thanks 
to AMU students


http://ibnlive.in.com/news/used-mustard-oil-is-the-new-source-of-biodiesel-thanks-to-amu-students/461853-3-242.html

Used mustard oil is the new source of bio-diesel, thanks to AMU students

Apr 01, 2014 at 07:21pm IST

A group of engineering students from Aligarh Muslim University have
succeeded in extracting bio-diesel from refined and used mustard oil,
university officials said on Tuesday.

Third-year students of the Diploma in Engineering at the AMU Polytechnic
designed a bio-diesel extraction plant as part of the recently developed
Alternative Fuel and Combustion Engineering Lab, said M. Yunus Khan,
assistant professor of mechanical engineering.

The process can help in directly replacing diesel in conventional
engines, thereby reducing India's dependence on imported oil and
emissions of various pollutants, officials said.

Bio-diesel is a renewable fuel derived from vegetable oil that can be an
additive to or entirely replace diesel in engines.
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Re: [Biofuel] Tar Sands Report

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Keith. Glad to have you back.

Jan W
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 1:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Tar Sands Report


> Hi Robert
>
> And then there's this...
>
> http://truth-out.org/news/item/8403-keystone-xls-dirty-little-secret
>
> Keystone XL's Dirty Little Secret
>
> Monday, 09 April 2012 09:18
>
> By Jim Hightower, OtherWords | News Analysis
>
> The people and companies pushing the tar-sands pipeline don't want
> you to know that most of this oil won't be made into gasoline for our
> vehicles.
>
> "It's certainly true," declared Energy Secretary Stephen Chu, "that
> having Canada as a supplier for our oil is much more comforting than
> to have other countries supply our oil."
>
> He was referring to the Canadian tar sands oil that TransCanada
> Corporation intends to move through the Keystone XL pipeline it wants
> to build from Alberta to refineries on the Texas Gulf Coast. He and
> lobbyists for the pipeline assert that filling America's gas tanks
> with fuel derived from Canadian crude will cut U.S. dependency on the
> oil we get from unstable and unfriendly nations.
>
> Good point! If it were true. However, ask yourself this question: why
> go to the expense of piping this stuff 2,000 miles through six
> states, endangering water supplies and residents with inevitable
> toxic spills, when there are oil refineries much closer to Canada in
> the Midwest? What's the advantage of sending Canadian crude to
> refineries way down in Port Arthur, Texas? Aha - because it's a port!
>
> What the pushers of Keystone want to keep secret from you and me is
> that this oil will not be made into gasoline for our vehicles. Most
> of it will be refined into diesel and jet fuel and exported to
> Europe, China, and Latin America.
>
> The claim that the pipeline will reduce our reliance on OPEC is an
> outright lie. Such oil giants as Valero, Motiva, and Total have
> already rejiggered their Port Arthur refineries specifically to make
> diesel and jet fuel, nearly all of which will then be piped into
> tanker ships at the port and sent abroad. In presentations to
> investors, Valero openly touts its export strategy, even showing
> world maps with convenient arrows pointing from Port Arthur to its
> foreign customers.
>
> You'd think our energy secretary would know this dirty little secret
> and come clean with the American people.
>
> National radio commentator, writer, public speaker, and author of the
> book, Swim Against The Current: Even A Dead Fish Can Go With The
> Flow, Jim Hightower has spent three decades battling the Powers That
> Be on behalf of the Powers That Ought To Be - consumers, working
> families, environmentalists, small businesses, and just-plain-folks.
>
>
>>Interesting reading . . .
>>
>>http://forestethics.org/downloads/FEA_Tar_Sands_funding_briefing.pdf
>>
>>Robert Luis Rabello
>>Adventure for Your Mind
>>http://www.newadventure.ca
>>
>>Meet the People video:
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txsCdh1hZ6c
>>
>>Crisis video:
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZedNEXhTn4
>>
>>The Long Journey video:
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy4muxaksgk
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Keith and all. I can answer that question. A few years back I visited 
a company recycling engine oil and they managed to remove the inorganic 
content (water, metals, old additives etc) from the oil ending up with a 
clear and bright base oil which was analyzed as such (viscosity etc) and 
then sold back to the lubricant manufacturers as base oil. It seems that the 
base oil is very stable but this recycling should not be possible for 
indefinite time, since nature has its course, eventually cracking the oil 
into different other products. It´s a way of prolonging the life of the 
petro industry.

Best to you all
Jan W
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 1:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil


> Hi Zeke
>
> Is filtering all that's required? Filtering what, I wonder, little
> bits of engine that get worn off? Isn't that what the oil is supposed
> to prevent? By the time it needs changing, isn't the oil itself
> somewhat worn out, having been subjected to all that heat and high
> pressure?
>
> Just asking.
>
> Regards
>
> Keith
>
>
>>Bio based, no... but I have seen, in the last few months, introduction of 
>>a
>>whole line of recycled engine oils in the local auto parts stores here.
>>I'm not really sure what the recycled content is percentage wise, but
>>apparently it's using old engine oil, filtering all the bad stuff out, and
>>adding back in the additives that have been used up.  It's supposed to 
>>meet
>>the same standards as new petro-based engine oil.
>>
>>Z
>>
>>On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Jan Warnqvist <
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>  Hello Keith et al.
>>>  I am not surprised on the market non-introduction of castor oil 
>>> lubricants.
>>>  Castor oil, although a classic, is not ideal as a raw material for
>>>  lubricant
>>>  formulations. The castor oil has two hydroxyl groups on the fatty acid
>>>  (ricinic acid) chain which will want to polymerize and releasing water 
>>> into
>>>  the system, giving the lubricant an unnecessary short life. What 
>>> attracts
>>>  the lubricant inventors is the high viscosity and the expected high
>>>  viscosity index of the oil which both looks promising enough. But I 
>>> would
>>>  prefer a more stable material to start with and then adjusting the
>>>  viscosity
>>>  values chemically.
>>>  A good lubricant consist from a base oil and then added a number of
>>>  additives in order to adjust the properties of the lubricant. It is 
>>> then
>>>  preferable to bring as favourable properties already in the base oil in
>>>  order to minimize the addition of additives.
>>>
>>>  Best to you all
>>>  Jan W
>>>  - Original Message -
>>>  From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>  To: 
>>>  Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 2:13 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil
>>>
>>>
>>>  > Hi Chris and Dawie
>>>  >
>>>  > The answer seems to be No. Sorry to say.
>>>  >
>>>  > It was first discussed here in 2001. Lots of interesting stuff in the
>>>  > list archives:
>>>  > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>>>  >
>>>  > Try "bio engine oil" or "biolubricant".
>>>  >
>>>  > (Don't forget, the whole thread is hotlinked at the end of each 
>>> find.)
>>>  >
>>>  > If you do a web search, you'll find lots of talk, lots of products
>>>  > that are simply biodegradeable, "green" lubricants to replace the
>>>  > likes of WD-40 or 2-stroke oil, and a few commercial bio engine oils,
>>>  > with claims that they're made from renewable resources but they don't
>>>  > say what, or they're a marriage of renewables (pig fat) and
>>>  > nano-tech, or whatever, but nothing DIYable.
>>>  >
>>>  > I knew some people in Japan who were making bio engine oil from
>>>  > castor oil. They wouldn't tell me how they were doing it, but they
>>>  > gave me a bottle of it. Clear, light yellow, sort of oily smell. But
>>>  > after a while it started degrading, whisps of cloudiness started
>>>  > appearing. Not perfect, and they never brought a product to market.
>>>  >
>>>  > Still, castor oil is probably the best bet. It&

Re: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Keith et al.
I am not surprised on the market non-introduction of castor oil lubricants. 
Castor oil, although a classic, is not ideal as a raw material for lubricant 
formulations. The castor oil has two hydroxyl groups on the fatty acid 
(ricinic acid) chain which will want to polymerize and releasing water into 
the system, giving the lubricant an unnecessary short life. What attracts 
the lubricant inventors is the high viscosity and the expected high 
viscosity index of the oil which both looks promising enough. But I would 
prefer a more stable material to start with and then adjusting the viscosity 
values chemically.
A good lubricant consist from a base oil and then added a number of 
additives in order to adjust the properties of the lubricant. It is then 
preferable to bring as favourable properties already in the base oil in 
order to minimize the addition of additives.

Best to you all
Jan W
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil


> Hi Chris and Dawie
>
> The answer seems to be No. Sorry to say.
>
> It was first discussed here in 2001. Lots of interesting stuff in the
> list archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
> Try "bio engine oil" or "biolubricant".
>
> (Don't forget, the whole thread is hotlinked at the end of each find.)
>
> If you do a web search, you'll find lots of talk, lots of products
> that are simply biodegradeable, "green" lubricants to replace the
> likes of WD-40 or 2-stroke oil, and a few commercial bio engine oils,
> with claims that they're made from renewable resources but they don't
> say what, or they're a marriage of renewables (pig fat) and
> nano-tech, or whatever, but nothing DIYable.
>
> I knew some people in Japan who were making bio engine oil from
> castor oil. They wouldn't tell me how they were doing it, but they
> gave me a bottle of it. Clear, light yellow, sort of oily smell. But
> after a while it started degrading, whisps of cloudiness started
> appearing. Not perfect, and they never brought a product to market.
>
> Still, castor oil is probably the best bet. It's strange stuff - give
> this a read:
> http://www.georgiacombat.com/CASTOR_OIL.htm
>
> IIRC Brazil's Petrobras had plans for producing castor oil-based
> engine oil, but I can't find any details.
>
> HTH, and good luck - best
>
> Keith
>
>
>>This is something I've also been wondering about.-D
>>
>>>
>>>  From: C Pinelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>>Sent: Saturday, 21 January 2012, 1:56
>>>Subject: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi all.
>>>I'm still new to biofuels but have been making biodiesel and
>>>ethanol for my vehicles for a few months now and am thrilled with
>>>it. However, I can't stand filling up my gas tank with home made,
>>>environmentally friendly fuel, then changing the oil with expensive
>>>petroleum. So, I have been doing some research into making
>>>Bio-Engine Oil, it seems possible which makes me very enthusiastic.
>>>
>>>Does anybody know anything about making vegetable based motor oil?
>>>Or does anybody have any experience with using it?
>>>
>>>Thanks very much
>>  >Chris
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello C Pinelli et al. The lubricant industry is not very interested in 
bringing in new raw materials (e.g. vegetable oils and/or derivates) since 
there are standards on the final lubricants that have to be met. Taking in 
new materials may make it necessary to formulate new standards, which is a 
time-consuming and costly process, however not carrying that new standards 
is equal to lack of quality.
In contrast to the petro fuel industry, the lubricant industry was awake 
concerning EU regulation proposals and managed to stop a proposal similar to 
the one on the fuel , demanding a certain amount of renewable material of 
the total sales. Instead came an EU regulation regarding special labelling 
of renewable lubricants in the EU, which they have to apply to get. I have 
seen nothing of this labelling out in the shops so far, and this regulation 
is since 2004 or 2005.
So, similar to the biodesel industry, it takes new actors on the market to 
make it happen. With financial strength and patience, of course.
I have developed a nice vegetable based two-stroke oil (which is among the 
most difficult to formulate, due to the high working temperatures) which is 
still pending for market introduction. So there it is. Any comments ?

With best to everybody
Jan W
- Original Message - 
From: "C Pinelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:56 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil


>
> Hi all.
> I'm still new to biofuels but have been making biodiesel and ethanol for 
> my vehicles for a few months now and am thrilled with it. However, I can't 
> stand filling up my gas tank with home made, environmentally friendly 
> fuel, then changing the oil with expensive petroleum. So, I have been 
> doing some research into making Bio-Engine Oil, it seems possible which 
> makes me very enthusiastic.
>
> Does anybody know anything about making vegetable based motor oil? Or does 
> anybody have any experience with using it?
>
> Thanks very much
> Chris
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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Re: [Biofuel] How do I get the paper thin white layer

[Jan Warnqvist]

One suggestion is that if you have a lot of methanol in excess, the wash 
test will form an emulsion, since the methanol is soluble both in water and 
in biodiesel. But it will pass my test. And it did ?
- Original Message - 
From: "Ian and Jubilee Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How do I get the paper thin white layer


>I just reprocessed this last batch using 100ml of methanol and 5.5g KOH. It
> turned darker and there are little "cooties" floating around in it. Also,
> nothing settled out. Upon doing the wash test, it immediately formed an
> emulsion, although the methanol test yields a nice clear phase with no
> settle material. I am confused. I'm going to move on and make another 
> batch,
> but I'd like to know what went wrong so I can at least learn something. 
> Any
> ideas?
>
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Ian and Jubilee Miller <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I've let the BD separate for over 24 hours, which I thought should be
>> enough time. My method for separating could be suspect. I'm decanting out 
>> of
>> a settling bottle and tried to be careful, but it is possible that some
>> glycerine sneaked past. I think getting a better set up going is going to
>> make it a lot easier to be consistent.
>>
>> I just put my third batch through the methanol and wash tests and this 
>> time
>> I've got some settling in the methanol so I think I'm going to reprocess 
>> it.
>> The wash test turned out the same. Here's a link to a picture:
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/ianandjubilee/Biodiesel?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCNSD4sbwsfyjYA&feat=directlink
>>
>> I also was wondering it our water softener could have an effect. Could
>> softened water create more of a problem?
>>
>> Thanks for the help,
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 8:44 AM, Jan Warnqvist <
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello C Pinelli. Did you check the FFA and water contents on your raw
>>> material before processing ? FFA levels above 5 mg KOH/g (2,5%) will
>>> produce
>>> a lot of soaps, making the processing bad and the separation even worse.
>>> The
>>> water content will promote the soap production and will also compete 
>>> with
>>> the methanol. The highest acceptable water content is around 1,5% and 
>>> the
>>> lower the better.
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "C Pinelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 3:26 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How do I get the paper thin white layer
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > I am having a similar problem, I have experience making ethanol
>>> > successfully, but I'm new to biodiesel.
>>> > I've been trying to get it right for some time with many many test
>>> > batches, without too much success.
>>> > I've followed the instructions as closely as possible, but still can't
>>> > quite get it right. I use 90% KOH Flakes,
>>> > a scale thats accurate to the hundreth of a gram, and am incredibly
>>> > meticulous in my measurements.
>>> > I've had mixed (but mostly good)results with the methanol test, but 
>>> > have
>>> > never consistantly passed the
>>> > wash test. Sometimes I get a very thick separation line between the 
>>> > two,
>>> > sometimes I get clear water on
>>> > the bottom with a yellowy mayo like substance on top. Sometimes it 
>>> > seems
>>> > to have the reverse result,
>>> > where it appears to be clear biodiesel on top, with very murky white
>>> water
>>> > underneath.
>>> >
>>> > I've tried various amount of KOH and methanol, and varying my 
>>> > processing
>>> > times, but I can't seem to get it
>>> > down. As soon as my schedule permits, I'm going to try to get some new
>>> > chemicals, because im worried
>>> > that my lye might be water contaminated.
>>> >
>>> > Any help deciphering these results would be really appreciated.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 12:51:30 -0500
>>> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> >> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>> >> Subject: [Biofuel] How do I get the paper thin white layer
>>> >>
>>

Re: [Biofuel] How do I get the paper thin white layer

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello C Pinelli. Did you check the FFA and water contents on your raw 
material before processing ? FFA levels above 5 mg KOH/g (2,5%) will produce 
a lot of soaps, making the processing bad and the separation even worse. The 
water content will promote the soap production and will also compete with 
the methanol. The highest acceptable water content is around 1,5% and the 
lower the better.
- Original Message - 
From: "C Pinelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How do I get the paper thin white layer


>
> I am having a similar problem, I have experience making ethanol 
> successfully, but I'm new to biodiesel.
> I've been trying to get it right for some time with many many test 
> batches, without too much success.
> I've followed the instructions as closely as possible, but still can't 
> quite get it right. I use 90% KOH Flakes,
> a scale thats accurate to the hundreth of a gram, and am incredibly 
> meticulous in my measurements.
> I've had mixed (but mostly good)results with the methanol test, but have 
> never consistantly passed the
> wash test. Sometimes I get a very thick separation line between the two, 
> sometimes I get clear water on
> the bottom with a yellowy mayo like substance on top. Sometimes it seems 
> to have the reverse result,
> where it appears to be clear biodiesel on top, with very murky white water 
> underneath.
>
> I've tried various amount of KOH and methanol, and varying my processing 
> times, but I can't seem to get it
> down. As soon as my schedule permits, I'm going to try to get some new 
> chemicals, because im worried
> that my lye might be water contaminated.
>
> Any help deciphering these results would be really appreciated.
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 12:51:30 -0500
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> Subject: [Biofuel] How do I get the paper thin white layer
>>
>> Hello to all. I've made two test batches of biodiesel using new oil using
>> the instructions on the JTF site, which I've read and re-read, along with
>> many of the mailing list posts. I'm enjoying everything I'm learning, but
>> still have a ton to learn. I also have a question. In both my test 
>> batches
>> I've performed the quality tests recommended. The fuel passes the 
>> methanol
>> test fine, with no glycerine settling out. When I come to the wash test, 
>> I
>> have perhaps an eighth of an inch of white foam between the water and the
>> biodiesel. It separates quite well though. I've tried to follow all
>> instructions to the letter and I ordered my chemicals from DudaDiesel, so 
>> I
>> assume they are a good quality. I assume the foam is soap. It could be 
>> that
>> my measurements aren't precise enough, but if they aren't it's because of 
>> my
>> instruments. I have been very meticulous in my measurements.
>>
>> I've gone ahead and washed the biodiesel from both batches, and they also
>> have a lot of white foam, although they also separate very quickly. With
>> both batches I've just kept washing until there's no more white junk and 
>> the
>> water is clear. Does this take care of the soap (if that's what it is), 
>> or
>> is there still something to be concerned about? Also, any suggestions on 
>> how
>> to get that "paper thin" white layer instead of the thicker one I have 
>> now?
>> I'm using new oil, what I think are quality chemicals, and I'm being as
>> meticulous as I know how to be. As far as I know, I'm following your
>> instructions to the letter.
>>
>> I thank you for your help,
>>
>> Ian
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Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and gasoline

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Keith and all. I agree with you to some extent. Gasoline is a 
non-polar mix of 100:s and 100:s of hydrocarbons. In order to be corrosive 
there has to be
a) metal ions (Lewis acids) producing a low pH and
b) water or other polar compounds in the system.
Anhydrous ethanol stays anhydrous reasonably long assuming that it is kept 
in a closed vessel, preferably with dehydration air filters.
No I have not heard if Absolut is into juridical problems. But me, I prefer 
Lithuanian Gold vodka or Wyborowa, so it does not matter.
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and gasoline


> Hij Jan
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> What I was asking about is the 4% (4.37%) water in the azeotrope mix
> that won't separate from the water by distillation. When 190-proof
> ethanol is blended with gasoline, the overall proportion of water is
> even lower. Zeolite will remove the last of the water, but it's
> another processing step and you have to buy it, and how long will the
> ethanol stay absolute?
>
> I thought that today's engines were built to resist rust and
> corrosion. Gasoline is also corrosive.
>
> There's also this, in a previous message:
>
> "Biodiesel as an anti-wear and smog additive for gasoline fuel is
> very encouraging." - Franklin Del Rosario, January 2004, "Biodiesel
> in gasoline engines" - scroll down the page to "Biodiesel in 4-stroke
> gasoline engines"
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#gas
>
> It sounds like a good ethanol additive too.
>
> Has Absolut Vodka been sued yet for making false advertising claims?
> :-) Since it sure isn't absolute. Is it still just as good now that
> it's French? Somebody once gave me a bottle of 100-proof Absolut,
> wonderful stuff.
>
> All best
>
> Keith
>
>
>>Hello all. I wish to comment that like this:
>>Gasoline engines are sensitive to water, too sensitive to accept anything
>>but a very small portion of water containing alcohol in the gasoline. Any
>>alcohol blend in gasoline should originate from anhydrous alcohol.The fact
>>that ethanol in water is corrosive does not make it better. Some of the
>>ethanol will drop a hydrogen atom to the water and create acid and an
>>ethoxide ion, both are aggressive.
>>The diesel engines, as a contrast, can accept up to four per cents of 
>>water
>>without even long-term problems. But then the engine in question has to be
>>prepared for ethanol as fuel, of course.
>>Best regards
>>Jan W
>>- Original Message -
>>From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: 
>>Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 6:59 PM
>>Subject: [Biofuel] Ethanol and gasoline
>>
>>
>>>  Hi all
>>>
>>>  Would someone who has David Blume's "Alcohol Can Be a Gas!" please
>>>  look up something for me? I can't get at my copy at the moment.
>>>
>>>  What does Mr Blume say about blending 95% ethanol (190-proof) with
>>>  gasoline? Miscible or not?
>>>
>>>  Thanks!
>>>
>>  > Keith
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol and gasoline

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello all. I wish to comment that like this:
Gasoline engines are sensitive to water, too sensitive to accept anything 
but a very small portion of water containing alcohol in the gasoline. Any 
alcohol blend in gasoline should originate from anhydrous alcohol.The fact 
that ethanol in water is corrosive does not make it better. Some of the 
ethanol will drop a hydrogen atom to the water and create acid and an 
ethoxide ion, both are aggressive.
The diesel engines, as a contrast, can accept up to four per cents of water 
without even long-term problems. But then the engine in question has to be 
prepared for ethanol as fuel, of course.
Best regards
Jan W
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 6:59 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Ethanol and gasoline


> Hi all
>
> Would someone who has David Blume's "Alcohol Can Be a Gas!" please
> look up something for me? I can't get at my copy at the moment.
>
> What does Mr Blume say about blending 95% ethanol (190-proof) with
> gasoline? Miscible or not?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Keith
>
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Re: [Biofuel] The Green Revolution Backfires: Sweden's Lesson for Real Sustainability

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello all, sincerely Swedish I have never heard of this article. Neither 
have I heard any of the conclusions in the article. The truth is that people 
driving flexible fuel cars fill with gasoline if the gasoline is cheaper 
than the E85 (15% gasoline, 85% ethanol). It is also true that the diesel 
car sector has been growing rapidly during the past years. But that was from 
a very low level, seen from European standards. How that can increase the 
CO2 is a riddle. The big CO2 cut is however in  heat production. The heat 
power plants producing hot water for houses and flats are nowadays almost 
exclusively burring CO2 neutral fuels, such as waste vegetable oils.
I do not think that the article has been published in Sweden, even though 
there are, even here, strong forces aiming to turn the energy consumption 
back to only fossil fuels and - in worst case- nuclear power. I suppose they 
are fighting that battle in other countries too.

Jan W
- Original Message - 
From: "Darryl McMahon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Green Revolution Backfires: Sweden's Lesson for 
Real Sustainability


> Something is rotten in the state of Sweden.  Or not.  But I do smell a
> dead rat in here somewhere.
>
> We have studies from the U.S. that switching from petro-fuel to
> electricity for transportation reduces emissions, including greenhouse
> gases, even when the electricity comes entirely from coal-fired plants.
>
> However, in Sweden, the primary energy sources are hydro and nuclear
> (over 90% of the generation from those two sources).  Fossil sources
> produce considerably less than 10% of the electricity mix.  (This
> document is a bit dated, but presents the information nicely in a graph
> on page 2.
> http://ec.europa.eu/energy/energy_policy/doc/factsheets/mix/mix_se_en.pdf)
>
> So, Sweden is switching from conventional gasoline and diesel vehicles
> to electric and plug-in hybrids, charging from a grid that is over 90%
> supplied from essentially zero-GHG sources, but the emissions are going
> up?  And, the actual market penetration is still trivially small - I'm
> guessing well below 1% of the total road-going fleet in the country.
> Doesn't pass the smell test.  Unfortunately, the article doesn't bother
> to cite the evidence used to support it's conclusion.  My suspicion:
> the Swedish 'transportation sector' includes something other than
> private cars that might be driving the numbers up (e.g., ships burning
> bunker C crude).
>
> Actually, after a very limited Web search, I could not find anything
> credible that looked like the 'evidence' for the article - just lots of
> copy-cat items that also did not provide citations for the desired data.
>
> I did find this, dated January 2011:
> http://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/figures/change-in-total-ghg-emissions,
> which shows Sweden's transportation GHG emissions going up 9% from 1990
> to 2008.  The catch is that Sweden did not get serious about EV
> incentives until about 2008-2009, a time period not covered by the data
> for this report.
>
> Here's someone else's response (found while searching for the 'evidence').
>
> http://dagblog.com/link/what-if-green-products-make-us-pollute-more-10581 
> (check
> the comments by "quinn")
>
> Darryl
>
> On 11/06/2011 1:10 PM, Keith Addison wrote:
>> http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/06/10-3
>>
>> Published on Friday, June 10, 2011 by CommonDreams.org
>>
>> The Green Revolution Backfires: Sweden's Lesson for Real Sustainability
>>
>> by Firmin DeBrabander
>>
>> What if electric cars made pollution worse, not better? What if they
>> increased greenhouse gas emissions instead of decreasing them?
>> Preposterous you say? Well, consider what's happened in Sweden.
>>
>> Through generous subsidies, Sweden aggressively pushed its citizens
>> to trade in their cars for energy efficient replacements (hybrids,
>> clean diesel vehicles, cars that run on ethanol). Sweden has been so
>> successful in this initiative that it leads the world in per capita
>> sales of 'green cars.' To everyone's surprise, however, greenhouse
>> gas emissions from Sweden's transportation sector are up.
>>
>> Or perhaps we should not be so surprised after all. What do you
>> expect when you put people in cars they feel good about driving (or
>> at least less guilty), which are also cheap to buy and run?
>> Naturally, they drive them more. So much more, in fact, that they
>> obliterate energy gains made by increased fuel efficiency.
>>
>> We need to pay attention to this as GM and Nissan roll out their new
>> green cars to great fanfare. The Chevy Volt, a hybrid with a
>> lithium-ion battery, can go 35 miles on electric power alone (after
>> charging over night, for example), and GM brags on its website that
>> if you limit your daily driving to that distance, you can "commute
>> gas-free for an average of $1.50 a day." The Volt's price is listed
>> at a very reasonable $33K (if you 

Re: [Biofuel] Flex Fuel Ford Ranger and methanol

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello all and Tom especially.
There is a saying explaining that "methanol is like ethanol but more". This 
is used to point out that the disadvantages of ethanol is more with 
methanol.
I suppose that Ford is too mean to equip the fuel system for methanol.. 
Methanol is corrosive, even more that water. The engine will consume twice 
as much with metanol than with gasoline. And if I remember correctly, 
methanol has a higher vapour generating value than ethanol, meaning that it 
demands more energy to enter the gas phase, which can lead to cold starting 
problems. And during warm-up of the engine the methanol produces more of the 
even so corrosive substances, such as formaldehyde which also is poisonous. 
It is a well-known fact that most motor oils are not able to neutralize 
these corrosion agents, so one can expect an engine wear of twice the value 
than for gasoline. Apart from this is methanol an excellent fuel, especially 
if there was methanol from biological sources available.

Best regards to you all

Jan W
- Original Message - 
From: "Tom Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:49 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Flex Fuel Ford Ranger and methanol


> In an earlier post I asked about using a methanol/ethanol blend in my
> flex fuel Ford Ranger. It has been brought to my attention that Ford
> recommends against such a blend:
> "Do not use fuel containing methanol. It can damage critical
>  fuel systems components."
>
>  Tom
>
>
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>
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>
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Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Seth. Using heat exchangers is most of the time a good idea. Just keep 
in mind that they internally have to be acid resistant , at least down to pH 
4, which corresponds to the acid constant of the free fatty acids, which you 
in any case will have.
You are welcome and good luck.

Jan W
- Original Message - 
From: "Seth Macdonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 2:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions


> Thanks Jan.
>
> I have opted NOT to use it in the hydronic system and decided instead to 
> build a
> heat exchanger into the next phase of the processor instead. Thank you for 
> the
> info.
>
> Seth
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Jan Warnqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Sent: Sun, February 27, 2011 1:32:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
>
> Hello Seth. Biodiesel is usually processed at as low temperature as
> possible, 60oC is almost ideal. Any temperature above that is threateing.
> The hotter the faster the crack.
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Seth Macdonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 10:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
>
>
> At what temp does Bio-Diesel start to crack? Perhaps it is not a great 
> idea
> to
> use it in a hydronic system. If the Bio-diesel is only circulated for 24 
> hrs
> before being replaced by the next batch, am I still in danger of losing
> quality?
>
> Dredneck
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Jan Warnqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 11:27:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
>
> Biodiesel is not as chemically stable as gas oil, or water for heating
> purposes. High temperatures may cause the biodiesel to crack and form
> solids, so filtering is necessary to keep the circulation running. And the
> biodiesel will in each case loose quality in connection to heating. The
> higher degree of unsaturation, the greater the quality loss.But the 
> process
> can be buffered by the use of anti-oxidants, preferably the BHT based.
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Seth Macdonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 8:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
>
>
>> Thanks for the tips Keith.
>>
>> the "Journey to Forever" website has revolutionized my family's life!
>> Everything
>> I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to
>> your
>> site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community
>> is now
>> addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies!
>>
>>
>> Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of 
>> energy
>> in
>> our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is
>> finished.
>>
>> Another concept I am about to explore is using the biodiesel in my
>> hydronic
>> heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I
>> installed
>> an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about 
>> to
>> hook
>> it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated
>> through
>> the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would
>> be
>> siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be
>> dried to
>> take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there
>> any
>> problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees?
>>
>> Seth "Dredneck" Macdonald
>>
>> Dunster BC
>> CANADA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small 
>>>bio-diesel
>>>refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this
>>>coming spring.
>>>This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems
>>>maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety 
>>>of
>>>problems.
>>
>> You might consider this:
>>
>> http://journeytoforever

Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Seth. Biodiesel is usually processed at as low temperature as 
possible, 60oC is almost ideal. Any temperature above that is threateing. 
The hotter the faster the crack.
- Original Message - 
From: "Seth Macdonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions


At what temp does Bio-Diesel start to crack? Perhaps it is not a great idea 
to
use it in a hydronic system. If the Bio-diesel is only circulated for 24 hrs
before being replaced by the next batch, am I still in danger of losing
quality?

Dredneck




________
From: Jan Warnqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 11:27:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions

Biodiesel is not as chemically stable as gas oil, or water for heating
purposes. High temperatures may cause the biodiesel to crack and form
solids, so filtering is necessary to keep the circulation running. And the
biodiesel will in each case loose quality in connection to heating. The
higher degree of unsaturation, the greater the quality loss.But the process
can be buffered by the use of anti-oxidants, preferably the BHT based.
- Original Message - 
From: "Seth Macdonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions


> Thanks for the tips Keith.
>
> the "Journey to Forever" website has revolutionized my family's life!
> Everything
> I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to
> your
> site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community
> is now
> addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies!
>
>
> Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of energy
> in
> our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is
> finished.
>
> Another concept I am about to explore is using the biodiesel in my
> hydronic
> heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I
> installed
> an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about to
> hook
> it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated
> through
> the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would
> be
> siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be
> dried to
> take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there
> any
> problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees?
>
> Seth "Dredneck" Macdonald
>
> Dunster BC
> CANADA
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel
>>refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this
>>coming spring.
>>This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems
>>maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of
>>problems.
>
> You might consider this:
>
> http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html
>
>>Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a
>>large batch
>>of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it
>>should never have
>>happened in the first place.
>
> That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen.
>
>>Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the
>>processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID
>>pass the wash
>>test.
>
> And the methanol test?
>
>>I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of
>>energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it
>>hot
>>enough to make any difference.
>>
>>Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated.
>
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
>
>>Seth "The Dredneck" Macdonald
>>Robson Valley Bio-fuels
>>Dunster BC
>>CANADA
>>V0J 1J0
>>
>>PH: 250-968-4411
>
>
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>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000
> messages):
&

Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions

[Jan Warnqvist]

Biodiesel is not as chemically stable as gas oil, or water for heating 
purposes. High temperatures may cause the biodiesel to crack and form 
solids, so filtering is necessary to keep the circulation running. And the 
biodiesel will in each case loose quality in connection to heating. The 
higher degree of unsaturation, the greater the quality loss.But the process 
can be buffered by the use of anti-oxidants, preferably the BHT based.
- Original Message - 
From: "Seth Macdonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions


> Thanks for the tips Keith.
>
> the "Journey to Forever" website has revolutionized my family's life! 
> Everything
> I have learned thus far about Bio-Diesel has been learned from going to 
> your
> site and hands on experience. I've got a long way to go, but my community 
> is now
> addicted to the concept of running on renewable energies!
>
>
> Thanks to all who have worked to research and develop the future of energy 
> in
> our society. I'll send some photos etc. of my facility when it is 
> finished.
>
> Another concept I am about to explore is using the  biodiesel in my 
> hydronic
> heating system thereby drying it while heating the floor of my shop.I 
> installed
> an infloor pex pipe system in a concrete slab in the fall and I'm about to 
> hook
> it up as the final stage in the processor. Once the fuel has circulated 
> through
> the floor and had ample time to return to the reservoir and dry, it would 
> be
> siphoned off as fuel, making room for the next batch that needs to be 
> dried to
> take it's place. Only washed bio-diesel would be used for this. Are there 
> any
> problems inherent with heating bio-diesel to 140 degrees?
>
> Seth "Dredneck" Macdonald
>
> Dunster BC
> CANADA
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:11:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel
>>refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this
>>coming spring.
>>This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems
>>maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of
>>problems.
>
> You might consider this:
>
> http://journeytoforever.org/RSwoh1.html
>
>>Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a
>>large batch
>>of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it
>>should never have
>>happened in the first place.
>
> That's right - emulsions shouldn't happen.
>
>>Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in the
>>processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID
>>pass the wash
>>test.
>
> And the methanol test?
>
>>I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous amount of
>>energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it 
>>hot
>>enough to make any difference.
>>
>>Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated.
>
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
>
>>Seth "The Dredneck" Macdonald
>>Robson Valley Bio-fuels
>>Dunster BC
>>CANADA
>>V0J 1J0
>>
>>PH: 250-968-4411
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions

[Jan Warnqvist]

You are welcome. But have you analyzed the batch with the methanol test as 
initiated by undersigned ? That will give you useful information on the 
state of the batch.

With best regards
Jan W
- Original Message - 
From: "Seth Macdonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions


> Thank you for the info Jan.
>
> As far as I know the excess methanol has already been evaporated as the 
> batch
> was heated (probably excessively) outside the shop in a barrel over a 
> three
> burner stove! Glycerin layer has also been removed. I'm thinking this 
> batch did
> not completely react.Perhaps incorrect titration. Thanks very much for the 
> tip
> on using weakly acidified water.
>
> Seth
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Jan Warnqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:13:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
>
> Hello Seth. I think that the emulsion problem is caused by another issue
> that just the temperature itself. Any BD emulsion will break with the help
> of weakly acified water, preferably by sulphuric acid. Salty water (NaCl) 
> is
> also an option. This will work assuming that you can have 20oC and that 
> you
> have a reasonably good reaction of the BD. Have you evaporated the excess
> methanol ?
>
> With best regards
> Jan Warnqvist
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Seth Macdonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 6:21 PM
> Subject: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small 
>> bio-diesel
>> refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming
>> spring.
>> This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems
>> maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety 
>> of
>> problems.
>>
>> Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large
>> batch
>> of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should
>> never have
>> happened in the first place. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin 
>> in
>> the
>> processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass
>> the wash
>> test. I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous
>> amount of
>> energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it
>> hot
>> enough to make any difference.
>>
>> Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Seth "The Dredneck" Macdonald
>> Robson Valley Bio-fuels
>> Dunster BC
>> CANADA
>> V0J 1J0
>>
>> PH: 250-968-4411
>>
>>
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>>
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>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
>> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000
>> messages):
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Seth. I think that the emulsion problem is caused by another issue 
that just the temperature itself. Any BD emulsion will break with the help 
of weakly acified water, preferably by sulphuric acid. Salty water (NaCl) is 
also an option. This will work assuming that you can have 20oC and that you 
have a reasonably good reaction of the BD. Have you evaporated the excess 
methanol ?

With best regards
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "Seth Macdonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 6:21 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Query on breaking emulsions


> Hi all,
>
> Seth Macdonald here from Northern BC CANADA. I run a very small bio-diesel
> refinery with plans to sell/trade with local organic farmers this coming 
> spring.
> This winter has been particularly harsh up here and I am having problems
> maintaining constant temperatures in my shop. This has led to a variety of
> problems.
>
> Does anyone out there have any ideas on breaking an emulsion with a large 
> batch
> of fuel that will NOT separate from the wash water? I know, it should 
> never have
> happened in the first place. Cross-contamination due to cooled glycerin in 
> the
> processor lines is likely the culprit. Even though the product DID pass 
> the wash
> test. I have tried heating and cooling, but it is taking a ridiculous 
> amount of
> energy to heat 40 gallons of emulsified fuel and I can't seem to get it 
> hot
> enough to make any difference.
>
> Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Seth "The Dredneck" Macdonald
> Robson Valley Bio-fuels
> Dunster BC
> CANADA
> V0J 1J0
>
> PH: 250-968-4411
>
>
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>
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>
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> messages):
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Re: [Biofuel] Season's greetings

[Jan Warnqvist]

In accordance with Keith.
Jan W
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Season's greetings


> Dear All
>
> Compliments of the season to all the Christians, happy solstice to
> everyone else, and here's wishing a happy, prosperous and wonderful
> New Year to one and all - everything you wish for yourselves. Have a
> great holiday!
>
> Regards
>
> Keith
>
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Re: [Biofuel] A metalworking question

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello all, I just have to point out that castor oil was widely used as a 
lubricant during pre-industrial era and it was working very well. The reason 
for its absence nowadays is that the petroleum-based base oils in use 
nowadays (still) is cheaper.
Anybody who is interested in how to use biological oils as raw materials for 
high-performance lubricants, feel free to adress me.

Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "Dawie Coetzee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A metalworking question


Keith

>Or use some linseed oil, or this:
>
>Anti-rust Paint from Fish-Scraps - A short guide to the technique
>by M. L. Allen, Prince of Songkla University, Thailand
>http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/FishPaintJTF.pdf

Interesting, thanks. Flax is a wonderful thing, isn't it? I've often said 
that
there's nothing wrong with pre-industrial linseed-oil-based paints, and that 
99%
the development of paint technology over the past century has been about 
nothing
but faster drying times. That and getting rid of skilled labour, as is the 
case
in the rest of industry, not to mention agriculture.

>That sounds hopeful. But wouldn't hammering along the edge thin the
>metal and expand it rather than compacting it? I'd thought of
>hammering in the middle to expand it, hopefully making the whole
>thing bulge out, but I didn't want to make the middle thinner, and
>weaker. Maybe if I started out with slightly thicker metal. And,
>indeed, heat it to light yellow.

That was my initial reaction at the time, so I went back and re-read. 
Indeed,
one hammers onto a dolly on anvil where one wants the metal shrunk. I'd
guess that the resulting compaction influences the thermal expansion
characteristics, causing the compacted metal to contract more when cooling. 
But
as I said, I haven't had the opportunity to try it myself.

I've just done a quick search ("heat shrinking metal") and, as is often the 
case
with crafts, there are differences both of technique and opinion out there. 
The
technique I've described is found more among those who wish creatively to 
form
compound curves out of flat sheetmetal. Those trying to remove dents in 
fenders
and doorskins tend to favour a higher heat, hammering just off the heated 
area,
and quenching with wet rags.

>A circular domed part of a car? I can't think of one, but I'll
>certainly have a look.

Try the front and rear corners (unfortunately the areas most likely to be
damaged) or the rear corners of roofs. And don't forget mechanical bits: 
I've
made damper towers out of water pump pulleys!

Simplest of all, see if steel merchants don't have what you want off the 
shelf.
It's surprising what they do have. Round pole caps for palisade fences might
just be perfect for the job.

All the best

-Dawie






From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Wed, 3 November, 2010 11:29:19
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A metalworking question

Hi Dawie

>Keith
>
>It looks to me, unless I've misunderstood the failed attempt, that
>you want a worked sheetmetal piece rather than a casting or moulding.

That's right. It's just thin metal, like a tin can. I think anything
much heavier might upset the balance, which is just right - as you
walk the cans more or less empty themselves, you don't have to tip
them much, if at all.

>And then the trouble would be to get the domed shape into it: I take
>it the shape is necessary for the proper functioning of the rose.

Yes, it widens the spread, and some of the water goes up, which
extends the reach.

>The first thing that springs to mind is to scour vehicle breaker's
>yards for bits of body panels that have a suitable dome. As you only
>need a small piece an otherwise irreparable panel might do.

A circular domed part of a car? I can't think of one, but I'll
certainly have a look.

>Otherwise one could start with flat sheetmetal and work in the dome
>using traditional bodywork techniques.

That's probably my problem, I don't know much about bodywork techniques.

>The problem is that one would be working in ungalvanized metal,
>though one could "cold galv" it afterwards.

Or use some linseed oil, or this:

Anti-rust Paint from Fish-Scraps - A short guide to the technique
by M. L. Allen, Prince of Songkla University, Thailand
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/FishPaintJTF.pdf

>To form the dome, heat a metal disc until a light yellow oxide bloom
>appears. Then hammer along the edge of the disc to compact the
>metal. You'll probably have to heat, hammer, and let cool a few
>times to achieve the desired domed shape. I haven't done this myself
>but have read some

Re: [Biofuel] SVO Vehicles in USA

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Paul, maybe you know me from "The Jan Warnqvist Methanol Test"?
I belong to that group of people that consider SVO as not suitable for 
diesel engines in general, simply because it is very difficult to have good 
function with SVO as fuel, even if the engines are equipped to handle that 
fuel, you will not be able to get over the obvious disadvantages with SVO:
- High viscosity
- (Too) High boiling point
- (Too) Bad ignition properties
- Unregulated content of metal salts which will generate deposits inside the 
engine.
Biodiesel of good quality is a far better alternative, since all the 
biodiesel turns the above mentioned disadvantages to acceptable properties. 
And - the CO2 neutrality will be almost the same.so why go for SVO ?

With best regards
Jan W
- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Landis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 6:29 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] SVO Vehicles in USA


> August 30, 2010
>
> I am new to this list.
>
> I learned about SVO as Fuel from Keith and his great web site.
>
> I am NOT a technician.
>
> I am an activist who hates Oil Companies.
>
> I am looking to promote SVO as a capability here in the USA.
>
> Elsbett has people here in the USA and I have spoken to Taavi McMahon
>
> If any of you know people in the USA  or are in the USA and
> would like to help let people know about the capabilities of SVO,
> especially if you have a vehicle that is so equipped,
> please let me know.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> Paul Landis
> 50 Columbus Avenue  Apt. F21
> Tuckahoe, NY 10707 USA
>
> 914-771-9114
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[Biofuel] Kolla in mina foton på Facebook

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hej Biofuel!

Jag har skapat en Facebook-profil där jag kan lägga ut mina bilder, filmklipp 
och evenemang. Nu vill jag lägga till dig som vän så att du också kan se min 
sida. Men först måste du gå med i Facebook. Så fort du är med kan du också 
skapa en egen profil!

Hälsningar,
Jan

Klicka på länken nedan för att registrera dig på Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1715671013&k=ZXDY6YV2T4TAXDCCQFY42USTZWKC2U4&r

Har du redan ett konto? Lägg till den här e-postadress till ditt konto:
http://www.facebook.com/n/?merge_accounts.php&e=biofuel%40sustainablelists.org&c=dda3885887fa6348cd49431d31b4be79

===
biofuel@sustainablelists.org har fått en inbjudan om att gå med i Facebook av 
Jan Warnqvist. Om du inte vill ha fler sådana här e-postmeddelanden från 
Facebook kan du klicka på länken nedan för att avsluta prenumerationen.
http://www.facebook.com/o.php?k=ed66fa&u=676730461&mid=2aa42bcG2856165dG0G8
Facebook, Inc. P.O. Box 10005, Palo Alto, CA 94303

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Re: [Biofuel] Acid-base chemistry

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Keith. Moles means molecules. There is one water molecule formed for 
each molecule of fatty acid alkylated.
It is true that some water is produced during saponification of free acidity 
and it is also true that water is formed when mixing NaOH or KOH in an 
alcohol. But neither of these reactions are esterification or 
transesterification reactions..
It is considered that the transesterifiction reaction takes place in two or 
more steps, where the first step is the collapse of the glycerine-formed 
ester (the triglyceride etc) forming free glycerine and free acidity. Water 
is consumed in that step. In another step the new esters are formed where 
the equal amount of  water is released. Conclusion: Some free water is good 
for the first step of the reaction. Does it make sense ?
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Acid-base chemistry


> Hello Jan
>
> Thankyou!
>
>>The acid esterification produces water with 1M /M alkylated fatty acid.
>
> I have difficulty with moles. I do know how to figure it out, in
> theory, but I'm not confident of the result. Would you mind writing
> it as a formula equation, if that's the right term:
>
> A + B --> D + E
>
> Moles gives quantities though, which I'd like to know. Is it possible
> to translate "1M /M alkylated fatty acid" into ml of water per litre
> of oil or something similar?
>
>>The trans-esterification does not produce any water,
>
> We've had people saying it does, and others that it doesn't. It's
> been said that some water is produced by the saponification of free
> fatty acids, though it's very little, and someone else said some
> water might be formed during the reaction that produces the methoxide:
>
> CH3OH + KOH  ---> CH3OK + H2O
> or
> CH3OH + NaOH ---> CH3ONa + H2O
>
> Any comments?
>
>>but some water present
>>(0,1%)  is necessary to make the process run well.
>
> I didn't know that. Can you explain how it works?
>
> I did know that esterification will also perform some
> transesterification if it has the chance, but it's slow.
>
> Thanks again Jan - all best to you
>
> Keith
>
>
>>The acid esterification
>>produces water with 1M /M alkylated fatty acid. This process will also
>>perform trans-esterification assuming that there is some material to
>>trans-esterify and that the operator in question lets the process 
>>continue.
>>
>>With best regards
>>Jan W
>>- Original Message -
>>From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: 
>>Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 11:58 AM
>>Subject: [Biofuel] Acid-base chemistry
>>
>>
>>>  Hello all
>>>
>>>  A question...
>>>
>>>  Even when everything is dry, including the oil, the
>>>  transesterification process itself produces some water, though not
>>>  very much.
>>>
>>>  IIRC acid esterification also produces water, I think more water than
>>>  transesterification does, and via a different process.
>>>
>>>  Does anybody know if that's correct, and what the chemical equations
>>  > are? With KOH and H2SO4.
>>>
>>>  Thanks!
>>>
>>>  All best
>>>
>>  > Keith
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Acid-base chemistry

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Keith and all.
The trans-esterification does not produce any water, but some water present 
(0,1%)  is necessary to make the process run well. The acid esterification 
produces water with 1M /M alkylated fatty acid. This process will also 
perform trans-esterification assuming that there is some material to 
trans-esterify and that the operator in question lets the process continue.

With best regards
Jan W
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 11:58 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Acid-base chemistry


> Hello all
>
> A question...
>
> Even when everything is dry, including the oil, the
> transesterification process itself produces some water, though not
> very much.
>
> IIRC acid esterification also produces water, I think more water than
> transesterification does, and via a different process.
>
> Does anybody know if that's correct, and what the chemical equations
> are? With KOH and H2SO4.
>
> Thanks!
>
> All best
>
> Keith
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Cuphea Oil seed

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Keith. Opposite your opinion, I am quite optimistic concerning the 
relation of cold properties/cetane number of the biodiesel.  Palm oil, lard, 
or coconut oil do not have cloud points of -9 to -10oC. For instance, Palm 
oil biodiesel has a CFPP of +6 - +8oC and a cetane number of around 60. The 
cloud point is always higher than the CFPP, and the cloud point means less 
when it comes to driveability, especially since most additives when treating 
rape seed methyl ester can accomplish an improvement with 10o or more when 
it comes to the CFPP value.
So I still find Cuphea oil biodiesel interesting.

Jan W
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cuphea Oil seed


> Hello Jan
>
>>Hello all. The Cuphea oil is similar to coconut oil with an iodine value 
>>of
>>approx 17. This confirms its high content of saturated fatty acids, should
>>as biodiesel create a nice cetane number. The catch could be the biodiesel
>>final boiling point which should turn out scientifically lower that 350oC.
>>Good or bad ? It would be nice to judge  that from a report on the
>>properties of Cuphea oil biodiesel.
>
> The other catch is the cloud point, I'm not sure I believe the report
> I quoted that it's -9 to -10 deg C, especially not as you confirm the
> low IV of 17. More likely it starts to gel as soon as the weather
> gets cool, same as palm oil, coconut oil, lard, etc. If it does, then
> one wonders why it's being promoted in the US as a substitute for
> palm oil. Hot tip: invest all your bucks and your grandmother's life
> savings in US companies making pour-point depressants.
>
> Ref. Iodine Values
> 
>
> Further catch is that it's an awkward crop to process. The seeds are
> tiny, and they tend to shatter. Cuphea isn't really domesticated yet,
> it's more like a wild weed.
>
> Actually the biodiesel is just a sideshow, the main attraction is the
> caprylic and lauric acid, valuable industrial feedstocks, cloud point
> irrelevant.
>
> Industry enthusiasm, hm. In the US that means either B20 or B5, maybe
> a low cloud point doesn't matter if you're going to mix it with 80%
> or 95% petrodiesel.
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
>
>>Jan W
>>- Original Message -
>>From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: 
>>Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:31 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cuphea Oil seed
>>
>>
>>>  Hi Tony
>>>
>>>  It should be okay for biodiesel, it's been raising quite a lot of
>>>  enthusiasm in the industry in the US, but maybe that just means it's
>>>  better than soy. It's supposed to be similar to palm oil and coconut
>>>  oil (high caprylic and lauric acid content), yet the cloud point is
>>  > low, -9 to -10 deg C. I didn't find an Iodine Value for it though.
>>>
>>>  HTH - best
>>>
>>>  Keith
>>>
>>>
Hello List,
Has anyone used cuphea for bio-fuel?  If yes, what were the results?
Any additional information is appreciated.

Thanks

Tony Marzolino

3624 Wilson Creek Rd, Berkshire, NY  13736

>>  >>http://www.marzfarm.com/
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Cuphea Oil seed

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello all. The Cuphea oil is similar to coconut oil with an iodine value of 
approx 17. This confirms its high content of saturated fatty acids, should 
as biodiesel create a nice cetane number. The catch could be the biodiesel 
final boiling point which should turn out scientifically lower that 350oC. 
Good or bad ? It would be nice to judge  that from a report on the 
properties of Cuphea oil biodiesel.

Jan W
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cuphea Oil seed


> Hi Tony
>
> It should be okay for biodiesel, it's been raising quite a lot of
> enthusiasm in the industry in the US, but maybe that just means it's
> better than soy. It's supposed to be similar to palm oil and coconut
> oil (high caprylic and lauric acid content), yet the cloud point is
> low, -9 to -10 deg C. I didn't find an Iodine Value for it though.
>
> HTH - best
>
> Keith
>
>
>>Hello List,
>>Has anyone used cuphea for bio-fuel?  If yes, what were the results?
>>Any additional information is appreciated.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Tony Marzolino
>>
>>3624 Wilson Creek Rd, Berkshire, NY  13736
>>
>>http://www.marzfarm.com/
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Merceds-Benz

[Jan Warnqvist]

hello Denise, I think that US BD is more or synonomous with soy biodiesel 
although it may be a myth. US is the biggest soy producer in the world and 
that is not a myth.
- Original Message - 
From: "denise farley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Merceds-Benz


> Keith,
> Just out of sheer curiosity, where does the information that "Most 
> biodiesel
> in the US is soy biodiesel" come from?
>
> I was wondering too, since I cannot find the information even on the NBB
> (unless I am blind which is never outside the realm of possibility), where
> might be a good source to look for a list of currently operating biodiesel
> plant?  Ours closed and is in bankruptcy and of the other two in the local
> area, only one is operating.  We couldn't compete even switching to animal
> fats - and all those inherent processing problems.  Of course, the one
> operating is big-bucks AGP and, yes, uses soy.
>
> Hmmm.  D'ya think I might have sort of answered my own question here?
> Although I will say there is a soybean processing coop south of here that
> ceased production of biodiesel in their facility for at least 6 months 
> last
> I heard.  They sold their soybean oil to AGP during that period.  Sigh.
>
> Thanks so much!
> Denise
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Keith Addison
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
>>
>> Most biodiesel in the US is soy biodiesel, which doesn't need high
>> pressure to oxidise and polymerise, it's a semi-drying oil, it'll
>> polymerise anyway. The IV is well above the EU biodiesel standard
>> upper limit. (See "Iodine Values"
>> , "National
>> standards for biodiesel
>> .) The
>> biodiesel industry in the US seems to be more are less in denial
>> about this, but then the US National Biodiesel Board is a creature of
>> US Big Soy.
>>
>> Hm, I must check how the US-EU row over the US dumping cheap soy
>> biodiesel on the EU market is progressing. IIRC last time I looked
>> the US was accusing the EU of protectionism, on the basis of what
>> sounded like GMO-style "substantial equivalence" of America's soy and
>> Europe's rapeseed oil, though they're not equivalent when it comes to
>> iodine values and polymerisation. Rapeseed oil has a much lower IV
>> and is much less likely to polymerise. Nonetheless, a lot of
>> Europeans use anti-oxidant with their biodiesel, while very little
>> anti-oxidant is used in the US, by contrast. Also, in the US most
>> biodiesel is the NBB's commercial B20, a low blend with a lower risk
>> of polymerisation, so they have to care about it that much less.
>>
>> They're never going to accept that soy could be anything less than
>> ideal. I get the impression that, even if there is such a thing,
>> high-pressure polymerisation could be just a convenient scapegoat for
>> soy's shortcomings.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> ___
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Re: [Biofuel] Merceds-Benz

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Keith, Zeke and all. If polymerisation is the issue should it be 
related to the oxidation stability of the BD. It should therefore be 
important to use anti-oxidants in order to improve the stability. The 
connection is higher pressure -> higher temperatures -> quicker 
polymerisation. And the higher the iodine number the lower stability. Sorry 
about that, ASTM.
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Merceds-Benz


> Hi Zeke, Jan and all
>
>>Haven't really heard either way.  I have heard lots of rumors about quite 
>>a
>>few of the common rail diesel's having problems with biodiesel, due to
>>polymerization of the biodiesel at extremely high pressures that those
>>engines have, but I cannot remember any details or specific examples of 
>>any
>>of them right now.
>
> Maybe they're just rumours, but I think DI diesels might indeed have
> problems with polymerised biodiesel in the US. But is it because of
> the high pressures? Can high pressure cause oxidation? I don't know,
> but it's only from US sources that I ever hear that.
>
> Most biodiesel in the US is soy biodiesel, which doesn't need high
> pressure to oxidise and polymerise, it's a semi-drying oil, it'll
> polymerise anyway. The IV is well above the EU biodiesel standard
> upper limit. (See "Iodine Values"
> <http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#iodine>, "National
> standards for biodiesel
> <http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield2.html#biodstds>.) The
> biodiesel industry in the US seems to be more are less in denial
> about this, but then the US National Biodiesel Board is a creature of
> US Big Soy.
>
> Hm, I must check how the US-EU row over the US dumping cheap soy
> biodiesel on the EU market is progressing. IIRC last time I looked
> the US was accusing the EU of protectionism, on the basis of what
> sounded like GMO-style "substantial equivalence" of America's soy and
> Europe's rapeseed oil, though they're not equivalent when it comes to
> iodine values and polymerisation. Rapeseed oil has a much lower IV
> and is much less likely to polymerise. Nonetheless, a lot of
> Europeans use anti-oxidant with their biodiesel, while very little
> anti-oxidant is used in the US, by contrast. Also, in the US most
> biodiesel is the NBB's commercial B20, a low blend with a lower risk
> of polymerisation, so they have to care about it that much less.
>
> They're never going to accept that soy could be anything less than
> ideal. I get the impression that, even if there is such a thing,
> high-pressure polymerisation could be just a convenient scapegoat for
> soy's shortcomings.
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
>
>>And I don't recall what sort of biodiesel and what
>>iodine numbers they were running.
>>
>>Z
>>
>>On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Jan Warnqvist <
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>  Hi all. Did anybody experience or heard of anybody experiencing severe
>>>  problems with MB CDI engines in connection with biodiesel ?
>>>
>>  > Jan W
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Merceds-Benz

[Jan Warnqvist]

I had a colleague whose MB 320 CDI suddenly broke down due to suspected 
injection pump scar. When you ask MB owners about this they all say:
Neverthis cannot happen with a Mercedes- Benz! As a MB owner myself I am 
very curious about other´s experiences concerning this..
- Original Message - 
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Cc: 
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Merceds-Benz


> Haven't really heard either way.  I have heard lots of rumors about quite 
> a
> few of the common rail diesel's having problems with biodiesel, due to
> polymerization of the biodiesel at extremely high pressures that those
> engines have, but I cannot remember any details or specific examples of 
> any
> of them right now.  And I don't recall what sort of biodiesel and what
> iodine numbers they were running.
>
> Z
>
> On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Jan Warnqvist <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Hi all. Did anybody experience or heard of anybody experiencing severe
>> problems with MB CDI engines in connection with biodiesel ?
>>
>> Jan W
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[Biofuel] Merceds-Benz

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hi all. Did anybody experience or heard of anybody experiencing severe problems 
with MB CDI engines in connection with biodiesel ?

Jan W
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Re: [Biofuel] Titration

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Brian et al.
The standard solutions for titration are for example KOH 0,1M and KOH 0,5M 
which are corresponding to 5,61g and 28,05g of KOH / dm3. But the 
concentration of the titration solution really doesn´t matter as long as the 
analysis is performed correctly and that the acid number is calculated from 
the analysis, and that the compensation need is calculated from the acid 
number. Please note that NaOH has a lower mass than KOH, so the weight will 
be lower for the corresponding concentration.
You did not say how much your sample mass was when having that result. Do 
that, and we will work the values out properly.

With best regards
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Schneider" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration


> Jan,
> You say that my concentration is very weak compared to the standard
> solutions.  Do you mean the standard solution to titrate waste oil
> with, or are you just meaning weak in general?  If it is weak
> compared to what should be used for waste oil, what is the standard
> strength?  Did I miss read the information on journey to forever?
> Please let me know because right now I am not going to use the waste
> oil that I have because of the high titration rate and am going to
> have to find a new source.
> Thanks
> Brian Schneider
>
> On May 6, 2008, at 11:07 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote:
>
>> You should know that your concentration is very weak compared to the
>> standard solutions. Your concentration is 0,025M / dm3, and due to its
>> weakness, it will almost always produce high titration values. 1 ml
>> of the
>> solution assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g corresponds to an
>> acid
>> number of 0,1, which is normal for refined oils. Consequently is 5 ml
>> corresponding to 0,5 for acid number assuming that your sample mass
>> is 10,0
>> g. 0,5 is a very good value for virgin oils. But, if your sample
>> mass is
>> 1,0g, then the values will become 10 times higher, of course.
>>
>> With best regards
>> Jan Warnqvist
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Brian Schneider" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration
>>
>>
>>> I am using the 1 gram per 1000 mL or .1% of NaOH.
>>> I have tried mixing it several ways, 1 gram in 1 liter and also tried
>>> Keith's suggestion of 5 grams in .5 L as stock then using 5 mL of
>>> that in 45 mL of distilled water for the working solution.
>>> Both give the same result.
>>> What should New virgin oil titrate out as? or does it?
>>> Thanks for the help
>>> Brian Schneider
>>>
>>> On May 6, 2008, at 2:52 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Brian et al.
>>>> Which concentration of the titration solution are you using ? The
>>>> figures
>>>> that you stated could be correct, but only assuming that your
>>>> titration
>>>> solution is aimed for the purpose.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards
>>>> Jan Warnqvist
>>>> - Original Message -
>>>> From: "Brian Schneider" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> To: 
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:35 PM
>>>> Subject: [Biofuel] Titration
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> Have a quick question about titration.
>>>>> I have obtained some waste oil that seems to be titrating at 12 -
>>>>> 15mL.  I have done this numerous times and come up with about the
>>>>> same results.
>>>>> That seems unusably high.  So I tried to titrate new virgin oil.
>>>>> When I did that it only took about .2 - .4 mL is that normal or
>>>>> am I
>>>>> doing something terribly wrong.
>>>>> I am a little confused at this point and any help I could get would
>>>>> be really appreciated.
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian Schneider
>>>>> -- next part --
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>>>>>
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>>>>> http://journeyt

Re: [Biofuel] Titration

[Jan Warnqvist]

You should know that your concentration is very weak compared to the 
standard solutions. Your concentration is 0,025M / dm3, and due to its 
weakness, it will almost always produce high titration values. 1 ml of the 
solution assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g corresponds to an acid 
number of 0,1, which is normal for refined oils. Consequently is 5 ml 
corresponding to 0,5 for acid number assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 
g. 0,5 is a very good value for virgin oils. But, if your sample mass is 
1,0g, then the values will become 10 times higher, of course.

With best regards
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Schneider" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration


>I am using the 1 gram per 1000 mL or .1% of NaOH.
> I have tried mixing it several ways, 1 gram in 1 liter and also tried
> Keith's suggestion of 5 grams in .5 L as stock then using 5 mL of
> that in 45 mL of distilled water for the working solution.
> Both give the same result.
> What should New virgin oil titrate out as? or does it?
> Thanks for the help
> Brian Schneider
>
> On May 6, 2008, at 2:52 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote:
>
>> Hello Brian et al.
>> Which concentration of the titration solution are you using ? The
>> figures
>> that you stated could be correct, but only assuming that your
>> titration
>> solution is aimed for the purpose.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Jan Warnqvist
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Brian Schneider" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:35 PM
>> Subject: [Biofuel] Titration
>>
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>> Have a quick question about titration.
>>> I have obtained some waste oil that seems to be titrating at 12 -
>>> 15mL.  I have done this numerous times and come up with about the
>>> same results.
>>> That seems unusably high.  So I tried to titrate new virgin oil.
>>> When I did that it only took about .2 - .4 mL is that normal or am I
>>> doing something terribly wrong.
>>> I am a little confused at this point and any help I could get would
>>> be really appreciated.
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Brian Schneider
>>> -- next part --
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>>> messages):
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Biofuel] Titration

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Brian et al.
Which concentration of the titration solution are you using ? The figures 
that you stated could be correct, but only assuming that your titration 
solution is aimed for the purpose.

Best regards
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Schneider" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:35 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Titration


> Hi All,
> Have a quick question about titration.
> I have obtained some waste oil that seems to be titrating at 12 -
> 15mL.  I have done this numerous times and come up with about the
> same results.
> That seems unusably high.  So I tried to titrate new virgin oil.
> When I did that it only took about .2 - .4 mL is that normal or am I
> doing something terribly wrong.
> I am a little confused at this point and any help I could get would
> be really appreciated.
> Thanks
>
> Brian Schneider
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Re: [Biofuel] Fuel from Algae??

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Doug et al. There are two major concern signs about biodiesel from 
algae oil:
1) The algae have to be "fed" with CO2 during growth. If this CO2 comes from 
fossile sources, you have achieved almost nothing.
2) The oil from algae is highly unsaturated. This makes it difficult to have 
the biodiesel meet the EN norm and other standards.

Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "doug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:38 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Fuel from Algae??


> Hi,
> I ran into a chap travelling around Australia extolling the virtues of
> running on SVO.
> He is to email me more details, but apparently there is a project in
> Australia involved with oil from Algae, aparently using CO2 feedstock from
> generation equipment.
> I googled to try to find more info, but only found foreign references from
> ~2005. Has anyone heard anything about this project?
>
> regards Doug
>
> ___
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>
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>
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> messages):
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> 


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Re: [Biofuel] 1980 Mercedes problems

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hi Doug, Bill et al.
I have some experience from a similar model 300D, five-cylinder engine of 88 
hps.
My experience of the feed pump is that once there is air in the fuel system 
is the car impossible to start. But you could try this: There are several 
bolts on top of the main fuel filter. Loosen the one that holds the 
connection from the feed pump. Then act according to Doug´s instructions, 
pump until no air bubbles can be seen in the fuel, then close the bolt and 
tighten the hand pump. If the car does not start, you may have air in the 
high pressure side of the fuel system. What helps is to loosen one or two 
injectors and running the starter, and having somebody to tighten the 
injectors when only fuel is coming.
Even small holes in the fuel tube system may provide a constant flow of air 
into the system.
Hope this helps

Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "Bill Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] 1980 Mercedes problems


> Hi, Doug,
>
>  ON the drivers side of the block about 2/3's of the way down near the 
> back of the engine should be the primer pump. It's a plastic knerled knob 
> about 1.5 inch in diameter. Maybe white or cream if engine not to dirty. 
> Turn a couple of turns CCW to loosen and then pump in and out to prime 
> fuel system (usually watch the small fuel filter to see when it's full) 
> once the system is primed hold the pump in and turn CW to tighten. Start 
> engine.
>
>  Now that being said, be advised that the primer pump on many older models 
> will leak like a sieve so you may have to replace it. With mine I just put 
> a pan under it to catch the spillage and pump away. It does seem to prime 
> the system even when leaking although it probably would do better if it 
> didn't . Someday I'll change it. If your still having problem the folks at 
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/diesel_mercedes/  are the best. 
> Several have 240's as do I. I mine weren't buried under 4 feet of snow I 
> might be able to help you work through the problem. Most of the time it's 
> a priming problem try that first, if it is a fuel shut-off problem cause 
> by a vac line or solinoid those guys will help you out, I'm sure.
>
>  240D's slow and steady gotta love um!!
>
> doug swanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  I'm hoping this message is not too far off topic for this list, but I
> felt this would be the place to look for information from someone else
> who has been stumped with the same problem I'm facing here.
>
> I have a 1980 Mercedes 240D that won't run. It will turn over, but
> there seems to be no flow of fuel, in either the dinodiesel fuel lines,
> nor the WVO lines... As I've bought the Haynes manual, and read it, I'm
> getting that there is a fuel pump, which feeds the injector pump. A
> friend who drives a newer model tells me that the fuel pump relay is
> often bad, so I spent some time looking for it. (The Haynes manual is
> very stingy with information related to the diesels in the year range,
> no indication where to even start looking for the relay...)
>
> Possibly, (probably?) related... the car was at a mechanic's shop for
> an oil change, vacuum lines were disconnected, and incorrectly
> reconnected... This resulted in the engine not shutting off. This
> wasn't a problem the last time the car ran, as it did shut down
> properly... But now it won't start.
>
> It seems somewhat coincidental, but the fact that the fuel doesn't seem
> to be moving through the clear lines points to a problem with the supply
> fuel pump (lift pump?) and the manual isn't really clear where to start
> looking for it either...
>
> Does anyone on this list have experience with this model? specifically
> with the fuel supply system, pump relay location, vacuum line functions...
>
> I would be so very grateful for any information that will help me get my
> friend's car running again...
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> doug swanson
>
> -- 
> Contentment comes not from having more, but from wanting less.
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
> All generalizations are false. Including this one.
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
> This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software.
>
>
> ___
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> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (

Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Jonathan et al
The main problem with SVO is the high boiling point. This includes both the 
FFA and the SVO molecule itself. The points of turning the SVO into 
biodiesel are the following:
1) The final boiling point of the fuel will not exceed 370oC, which is 
proper for modern small and middle-size diesel engines.
2) The viscosity will drop til approx. max 5cSt, which is acceptable to 
modern small and middle-size diesel engines.
3) Using the proper recipe when performing the process, the FFA will be 
reduced or saponified. This will make the fuel less corrosive, assuming that 
the alkaline metal content of the biodiesel is taken care of .
4) The chemically bounded glycerine in SVO will partially be released from 
the SVO in hot environment. The glycerine is hard to combust, since it 
rather forms deposits than CO2 and water.

Best regards
AGERATEC AB
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "Jonathan Schearer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 5:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture


Hello.  Lately, I have been doing a lot of reading on the different systems 
for using SVO.  Elsbett seems to have one of the best single tank systems 
for this.  I have made good biodiesel, but with rising costs of methanol, I 
was looking at alternatives.  I have read about fuel mixing and admit have 
tried the DSE just to see what all the hype was about.  I agree that there 
is nothing really special about their ingredient and most of the thinning 
and diluting is done with the kerosene and gasoline.  It seemed to work fine 
in my 300SD, but the more I read, the more I learned of the negative 
aspects(incomplete combustion, coking, ring sticking, etc.).  I understand 
that I should only try things like this for short term experiments, which I 
have.  Is it the FFA in the vegetable oil that causes all of these problems? 
Is that why biodiesel will not cause these problems, because part of the 
process removes FFA?  I also read about the experiment that concluded that 
in order to
 achieve the same atomization as petrol diesel, the rapeseed oil was heated 
to 150 C.  This is twice as hot as most of the 2 tank SVO systems that are 
on the market now.  Would this mean that you would still have incomplete 
combustion if 150 C cannot be reached?  If Rudolf Diesel invented his engine 
to run on a variety of fuels, including vegetable oil, how come the engines 
of today require more modification or fuel modification to run veg oil?  My 
last question is concerning the Elsbett single tank SVO system.  If you can 
just pour the veg oil in and go, is there a heater on the main tank for cold 
weather?  I am not even sure that SVO will work for me since I drive 12 
miles one way to work.  My car gets up to operation temp. half way there. 
Thanks all.  Jonathan Schearer.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Hallo,

Check out this website if you want to see how well some folks talk out
both sides of their mouths.

http://www.dieselsecret.com

No, it isn't Bio-diesel! Yes, it is the only true Bio-diesel! The
Germans at Mercedes have been doing this since the post World War II years
but we have the only proprietary ingredients! On, and on, and on. Same
old same old.

Happy Happy,

Gustl
-- 
Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns.

We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails.

The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope,
soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones,
without signposts.
C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters"

Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen,
daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht
gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be
insane by those who could not hear the music.
Friedrich Nietzsche

The best portion of a good man's life -
His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.
William Wordsworth


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Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo from SVO kit vendors

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Bruno et al.
The viscosity and the high boiling point of SVO are just a consequence of 
the main molecule of SVO and its composition. The SVO consists from 
triglycerides together with some content of free acidity. Since we are 
mainly dealing with plant oils (or similar) we can expect the dominating 
fatty acid content to consist from oleic or linoic acid. These are C18:s 
which means that the triglyceride will have an approximate sum formula of 
C57H115O6 . This is a large molecule, which in itself is a reason for its 
combustion properties. Furthermore, the fatty acids are tied to a "backbone" 
of glycerine. This component can be extremely difficult to burn, since its 
urge to create polymeric compounds rather than vaporize is well known to 
anybody who have tried burning it. This property increases with the 
unsaturation of the oil. There are reports suggesting that highly saturated 
oils and fats are more easy to combust in diesel engines.
So the sum is that biodiesel is more suitable than SVO.
The additive we successfully tried was manufactured by Sybron Chemicals (SA) 
and consisted from phenolic compounds, which created soot which "diluted" 
the deposits.

Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "Bruno M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo from SVO kit vendors


Jan,

SVO having a high boiling point doesn't mean it
can't be used instead of dinodiesel
in a diesel car, because, ...
normal Diesel fuel is also completely evaporated before combustion.
What you need is a fine mist, not evaporated fuel in a diesel motor.

Dino diesel has a boiling point, rather a boiling-range, between 340 and 
400°C,
so even dino juice will not be much vaporized at the time of ignition.

But it's possible that the higher the viscosity,
boiling point, and vapor pressure is,
the more difficult it is for your dieselcar's
hardware to make the ultimate mist
who gives the ideal burning of all fuel components.
Thats why SVO conversion kits alway's have a fuel heather device in it to 
lower
the viscosity so the pump - injector combo can
produce a optimal ( or as close as possible ) mist.

At 95°C sunflower oil has around the same viscosity then DD at 15°C.

DOE and other governmental organizations still claim that SVO will shorten
the live span of your motor and more cooking and
reduced motoroil live span will appear.

Mixing with dinojuice or an additive can also help but is not the
best or preferred option if you want to go fossil free.

What additive did you use or tested?

Grts
Bruno M.
~~
At 18:30 20/11/2007, Jan wrote:

>Hi all,
>I find it difficult to embrace any SVO technology. That is for many 
>reasons,
>but the most outstanding is the high boiling point of SVO:s. Canola
>vaporizes completely at no less than 650-700oC, which is far too high for
>modern diesel engines which have a limit of acceptance at approx 350oC. 
>This
>means that the SVO cannot combust completely in a diesel engine. This leads
>to deposits in the engine, some of them lethal to the engine, and
>lubricating oil contamination. This is a fact that no SVO kit can cure. I
>was into a SVO project during the 90:s and we found one additive that could
>keep the deposits at a certain level. But the composition of the additive
>was such, that the handling of the fuel became environmentally undesirable,
>also from the human health point of view.
>If somebody has an attractive technical/chemical solution for this I would
>be very interested to hear about it.
>
>Jan Warnqvist
>- Original Message -
>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:42 PM
>Subject: [Biofuel] BD disinfo from SVO kit vendors
>
>See:
>The SVO vs biodiesel argument:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svovsbd.html
=


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Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo from SVO kit vendors

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hi all,
I find it difficult to embrace any SVO technology. That is for many reasons, 
but the most outstanding is the high boiling point of SVO:s. Canola 
vaporizes completely at no less than 650-700oC, which is far too high for 
modern diesel engines which have a limit of acceptance at approx 350oC. This 
means that the SVO cannot combust completely in a diesel engine. This leads 
to deposits in the engine, some of them lethal to the engine, and 
lubricating oil contamination. This is a fact that no SVO kit can cure. I 
was into a SVO project during the 90:s and we found one additive that could 
keep the deposits at a certain level. But the composition of the additive 
was such, that the handling of the fuel became environmentally undesirable, 
also from the human health point of view.
If somebody has an attractive technical/chemical solution for this I would 
be very interested to hear about it.

Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:42 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] BD disinfo from SVO kit vendors


See:
The SVO vs biodiesel argument:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svovsbd.html

"SVO versus biodiesel is a pseudo argument that should not exist. It
creates a false competitive situation between two good things and
distracts from the real issues on how we can minimize the use of fossil
fuels." - Hakan Falk

So many SVO vendors take this approach. There's a growing market for SVO
systems and for all ready-to-use biofuels solutions, why try to chisel off
bits of the biodiesel market by spreading disinfo? I haven't seen Elsbett
slagging biodiesel, for instance.

But then (somehow it's no surprise) this is just yet another two-tank
system, no optimised injector nozzles or anything a real system would
have.

"We are market leader in converting diesel engines for straight vegetable
oil in Germany," they said.

:-)

Now what was it Greasecar told me... "Throughout the world we are
recognized as the leading manufacturer, seller and producer of SVO
conversion equipment."

LOL!

---

http://www.3egmbh.com/eng/technology.php

Theoretically there are three ways of using vegetable oil as fuel:

1. Manufacturing an engine especially designed to run with vegetable oil:
At this moment in time, this version is inefficient, as the attitude of
the automobile and mineral oil companies only allows a small quantity of
these engines at high prices. Our aim is to change this attitude,
distribute the vegetable oil technology and to establish the vegetable oil
engine.

2. Adaptation of the vegetable oil to the existing engine technology:
It is inefficient to change the vegetable oil into biodiesel using a lot
of energy and chemical processes, which then destroy gaskets and tubes,
decrease the engine's power and increases consumption when the natural
fuel has already better features to offer.

3. Adaptation of existing engines to the natural vegetable oil:
Our company has developed this from of technology. We install additional
components in vehicles so a mode is selectable to use pure vegetable oil
or diesel fuel without having to change the engine. Form and extent of the
alteration depends on the technology of the diesel engine.

3E GmbH Pflanzenöltechnik

From: "Frank Wohlberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Your link list
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:34:23 +0100

Hi Keith,

is it possible to put a link of our company to your link list?

We are market leader in converting diesel engines for straight vegetable
oil in Germany but I couldn`t find a link to us.

Thank you very much!

Regards

Frank Wohlberg

http://www.3egmbh.com/eng/index.php


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Re: [Biofuel] Off Topic - More on the Holocaust if you can stand it.

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Guag et al.
The reason for the Germans during ww2 to spend time and resources on 
collecting racial, religious and political non-approved people was simple: 
Idelogical.
Germany was during this time built up on a lie and the money for this lie 
was borrowed from domestic and foreign lone providers so as for building up 
the war industry itself.
It was necessary for the German government to keep this lie, since their 
complete build-up was based upon that. But, when it came to the "final 
solution" it grew forward little by little, goverened by directives from the 
government and performed practically by the lower parts of the 
administration with the concentration camps adminstrations in the bottom. 
There were meetings held where administrates discussed how to kill as many 
as effiectively as possible within a certain time frama = executing the 
directives from the government.
So, the reason for spending resources on these collection activities was 
that they did not know how the "final solution" would look like.
A completely mad system from the very beginning until the end, if you ask 
me.

Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "Guag Meister" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 4:57 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Off Topic - More on the Holocaust if you can stand it.


> Hi Keith and all List Members
>
> I like the part about Fred "Dr. Death" Leuchter, the
> designer of the US Prison system's execution
> apparatus, as an expert defense witness who tested
> purported execution "gas chambers" ON-SITE in
> Auschwitz, Poland  tesitified in a court of law under
> oath and determined they had never been used to kill
> anyone.
>
> The other question I have is this. The war machine
> runs on fuel. During a time of war for Germany, fuel
> would be incredibly important.  So why would the
> Germans waste precious fuel to transport all the
> prisioners to the camps if they intended to kill them?
> Wouldn't a sharp bayonette be much cheaper?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Peter G.
> Thailand
>
>
> 20th Anniversary of the Great Holocaust Trial
>
> by Michael A. Hoffman II
>
> Copyright 2005 by revisionisthistory.org
>
> January 7, 2005 marks the 20th anniversary of what
> came to be known throughout the world as "The Great
> Holocaust Trial" thanks chiefly to the drive,
> determination, courage and vision of one man, Ernst
> Zundel, supported by those he inspired.
>
> In 1985 Zundel was a German immigrant residing in
> Toronto, Canada where he had built a highly successful
> advertising and graphic arts business based in a
> rambling Victorian mansion in the bohemian
> "Cabbagetown" section of metropolitan Toronto.
>
> Zundel viewed the "Six million" story as a form of
> mental genocide against the German people; ostensibly
> a noble tale of the epoch struggle for human rights
> that in actuality was a form of devious hate
> propaganda, leveling every conceivable blood libel at
> the Germans and branding them with the Mark of Cain.
> Having survived the Allied firebombing of his native
> city of Pforzheim as a child, Zundel was well familiar
> with the war crimes of the hypocritical Allies and he
> made it his life's work to clear the name of his own
> people.
>
> For this commendable enterprise, Zundel had his
> mailing privileges revoked by the Canadian government
> in 1983, forcing him to open a post office box in
> Buffalo, New York and send a messenger to commute
> hundreds of miles just to receive mail. In 1985 he was
> charged under an archaic "False News" provision of an
> old Edwardian municipal code, for having published the
> pamphlet "Did Six Million Really Die?" He faced two
> years in prison if convicted.
>
> In reponse Zundel put the so-called "Holocaust" itself
> on trial, hiring a little-known maverick lawyer from
> British Columbia, Douglas Christie, to argue his case
> before Judge Hugh Locke. Seated next to Christie was
> the learned revisionist historian Prof. Robert
> Faurisson of France, who guided Christie's withering
> cross-examination of a long train of "saintly
> 'Holocaust' survivors" offered by the "Crown."
>
> Zundel's defense was initially regarded by the press
> and public as preposterous. "How can anyone deny the
> 'Holocaust?" was the incredulous response to the news
> that Zundel would vigorously defend himself and the
> free speech rights of all Canadians. The trial was
> expected to be a quick and ignominious rout of Zundel
> and his motley crew.
>
> How wrong the odds-makers were! For the first time in
> history the holy "surv

Re: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas ThanOil OrPetrol

[Jan Warnqvist]

Ok, my mistake. When reading the article this is not shown very clear. But 
nitrous oxide is N2O and nothing else.
- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Burck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas ThanOil 
OrPetrol


jan, the study was focused on NO2 released by soil microbes as the
rapeseed crops grow, not on the emissions from burning the fuel.  you
make an excellent point, though.  imo, we should *always* be searching
for ways to reduce the impact of the fuels we burn.

On 10/3/07, Jan Warnqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear all, I would really like to read this study this report in
> original,since the article is producing several question marks.
> It is well known that the exhaust emissions from fatty acid methyl esters
> are producing higher amounts of nitrious gases than petro diesel does , 
> but
> as far as I can remember, the nitrious oxide corresponds only to a tiny 
> part
> of these. It is also well known that that the higher the cetane number of
> the biodiesel, the lower the emissions of nitrious gases. From that point 
> it
> is a little bit strange to conclude that the the emissions of nitrious 
> gases
> from rape seed oil biodiesel and maize biodiesel are the same, since the
> iodine number of maize oil in general is higher than the corresponding 
> value
> of rape seed oil. This is suggesting in its prolongment that the emissions
> of nitrious gases from BD out of rape seed oil should be lower than from 
> BD
> of maize oil. If the article is displaying the facts from the study
> correctly, then there are two ways to approach this problem:
> 1) Further product development of the fatty acid methyl esters in order to
> raise the cetane number to a level where the emissions of nitrious gases
> become acceptably lower.
> 2) New diesel veichles will be equipped with an Exhaust Gas Recirculation
> (EGR) system or an exhaust gas aftertreatment system which will lower the
> production of nitrious gases as required in Euro regulations.
> Information on the properties of nitrious oxide can be found at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide  No doubt has the information 
> on
> the green house effects from nitrious oxide come from this sight,
> No matter if the conclusions from the study are right or not, it still 
> makes
> sense to produce biodiesel, not in the least for forcing the development 
> to
> take another path than previous. You know what I mean.
>
> Jan Warnqvist
> - Original Message -
> From: "Olivier Morf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:40 AM
> Subject: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas Than Oil
> OrPetrol
>
>
> Source: 
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article2507851.ece
> September 22, 2007
>
> Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas Than Oil Or Petrol
>
> By Lewis Smith
>
> A renewable energy source designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions is
> contributing more to global warming than fossil fuels, a study suggests.
>
> Measurements of emissions from the burning of biofuels derived from 
> rapeseed
> and maize have been found to produce more greenhouse gas emissions than 
> they
> save.
>
> Other biofuels, especially those likely to see greater use over the next
> decade, performed better than fossil fuels but the study raises serious
> questions about some of the most commonly produced varieties.
>
> Rapeseed and maize biodiesels were calculated to produce up to 70 per cent
> and 50 per cent more greenhouse gases respectively than fossil fuels. The
> concerns were raised over the levels of emissions of nitrous oxide, which 
> is
> 296 times more powerful as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. 
> Scientists
> found that the use of biofuels released twice as much as nitrous oxide as
> previously realised. The research team found that 3 to 5 per cent of the
> nitrogen in fertiliser was converted and emitted. In contrast, the figure
> used by the International Panel on Climate Change, which assesses the 
> extent
> and impact of man-made global warming, was 2 per cent. The findings
> illustrated the importance, the researchers said, of ensuring that 
> measures
> designed to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions are assessed thoroughly before
> being hailed as a solution.
>
> ³One wants rational decisions rather than simply jumping on the bandwagon
> because superficially something appears to reduce emissions,² said Keith
> Smith, a professor at the University of Edinburgh and one of the
> researchers.
>
> Maize for ethanol is the prime crop for biofuel in the US where production
> f

Re: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas Than Oil OrPetrol

[Jan Warnqvist]

Dear all, I would really like to read this study this report in 
original,since the article is producing several question marks.
It is well known that the exhaust emissions from fatty acid methyl esters 
are producing higher amounts of nitrious gases than petro diesel does , but 
as far as I can remember, the nitrious oxide corresponds only to a tiny part 
of these. It is also well known that that the higher the cetane number of 
the biodiesel, the lower the emissions of nitrious gases. From that point it 
is a little bit strange to conclude that the the emissions of nitrious gases 
from rape seed oil biodiesel and maize biodiesel are the same, since the 
iodine number of maize oil in general is higher than the corresponding value 
of rape seed oil. This is suggesting in its prolongment that the emissions 
of nitrious gases from BD out of rape seed oil should be lower than from BD 
of maize oil. If the article is displaying the facts from the study 
correctly, then there are two ways to approach this problem:
1) Further product development of the fatty acid methyl esters in order to 
raise the cetane number to a level where the emissions of nitrious gases 
become acceptably lower.
2) New diesel veichles will be equipped with an Exhaust Gas Recirculation 
(EGR) system or an exhaust gas aftertreatment system which will lower the 
production of nitrious gases as required in Euro regulations.
Information on the properties of nitrious oxide can be found at 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide  No doubt has the information on 
the green house effects from nitrious oxide come from this sight,
No matter if the conclusions from the study are right or not, it still makes 
sense to produce biodiesel, not in the least for forcing the development to 
take another path than previous. You know what I mean.

Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "Olivier Morf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:40 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas Than Oil 
OrPetrol


Source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article2507851.ece
September 22, 2007

Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas Than Oil Or Petrol

By Lewis Smith

A renewable energy source designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions is
contributing more to global warming than fossil fuels, a study suggests.

Measurements of emissions from the burning of biofuels derived from rapeseed
and maize have been found to produce more greenhouse gas emissions than they
save.

Other biofuels, especially those likely to see greater use over the next
decade, performed better than fossil fuels but the study raises serious
questions about some of the most commonly produced varieties.

Rapeseed and maize biodiesels were calculated to produce up to 70 per cent
and 50 per cent more greenhouse gases respectively than fossil fuels. The
concerns were raised over the levels of emissions of nitrous oxide, which is
296 times more powerful as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. Scientists
found that the use of biofuels released twice as much as nitrous oxide as
previously realised. The research team found that 3 to 5 per cent of the
nitrogen in fertiliser was converted and emitted. In contrast, the figure
used by the International Panel on Climate Change, which assesses the extent
and impact of man-made global warming, was 2 per cent. The findings
illustrated the importance, the researchers said, of ensuring that measures
designed to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions are assessed thoroughly before
being hailed as a solution.

³One wants rational decisions rather than simply jumping on the bandwagon
because superficially something appears to reduce emissions,² said Keith
Smith, a professor at the University of Edinburgh and one of the
researchers.

Maize for ethanol is the prime crop for biofuel in the US where production
for the industry has recently overtaken the use of the plant as a food. In
Europe the main crop is rapeseed, which accounts for 80 per cent of biofuel
production.

Professor Smith told Chemistry World: ³The significance of it is that the
supposed benefits of biofuels are even more disputable than had been thought
hitherto.²

It was accepted by the scientists that other factors, such as the use of
fossil fuels to produce fertiliser, have yet to be fully analysed for their
impact on overall figures. But they concluded that the biofuels ³can
contribute as much or more to global warming by N2 O emissions than cooling
by fossil-fuel savings².

The research is published in the journal Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics,
where it has been placed for open review. The research team was formed of
scientists from Britain, the US and Germany, and included Professor Paul
Crutzen, who won a Nobel Prize for his work on ozone.

Dr Franz Conen, of the University of Basel in Switzerland, described the
study as an ³astounding insight².

³It is to be hoped that those taking decisions 

Re: [Biofuel] new topic

[Jan Warnqvist]

And further:
The developing countries may be able to benefit very well from a more 
de-centralized energy production by taking advantage from the "green" 
techniques. An example:
A farmer in Africa decides to grow Jatropha plants, because a near-by 
plantation has decided to produce biodiesel for their own consumption, since 
the availability of petrodiesel changes with the wheather and with rebel and 
government activities. The production cost for Jatropha oil biodiesel is far 
less than the cost of petrodiesel. The biodiesel and its by-products can 
also be used to generate electricity and give a surplus back on to the power 
network. A surplus that can be consumed by the farmer and his family. This 
will enable them to increase their standard and even increase the production 
of Jatropha oil.
This is only one example of events that we in the company have seen taking 
place, although mostly concerning palm oil.
- Original Message - 
From: "Lugano Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] new topic


> TRUE,
>
>  governments have key role to play - the development of these new and 
> clean energy systems need be regulated not just left to the multinationals 
> to control everything at their PROFIT.
>
>  serious cases will be to developing countries that have corrupt systems 
> only to throw such precious lands at a token advantage.
>
>  it is clear that these developments are going to spread decentralized 
> energy sevices to remote areas that one could not think of. it should 
> therefore be promoted with much regulation.
>
>  Lugano
>
> Jan Warnqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Prifitability to the new energy business is a matter for the government 
> to
> ensure, assuming that the government wants such a development, of course.
> In Sweden. Italy and UK (I think) there is a system of green certificates
> for power generation. These systems oblige the power distributors to buy a
> min quote of green certificates, allowing of certain amount of the power
> will be green.
> As for the biodiesel or even ethanol, the authorities will have to enforce
> the production and consumption of these, with grants or by quotas.
> But there is another factor to take into consideration as well: Big 
> systems
> are sensitive to terrorst attacks, technical malfunctions etc. That in
> itself is a reason to encourage "small" scale energy production.
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Michael Miller"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] new topic
>
>
>> On 9/19/07, Jan Warnqvist wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> my time here in Ageratec has provided me with some observations which I
>>> would like the list members to share with me:
>>> We are in the business of producing energy from sources which originally
>>> are meant for food purposes or food waste. It is obvious that this new
>>> energy sector has very few of the traditional energy suppliers, rather
>>> new
>>> actors in this field of green energy.
>>
>>
>> I don't think the renewable energy industry is nearly as profitable as 
>> the
>> existing oil industry. The investments in renewables by big oil is only 
>> to
>> comply with mandatory state and federal requirements. If renewables ever
>> take off and actually threaten their profits the oil giants will have 
>> tens
>> of billions of dollars available to buyout everyone, and in the end they
>> own
>> it all again.
>>
>> It is happening with ethanol production. What started as cooperatively
>> owned
>> ethanol plants financed by groups of local farmers has grown into highly
>> capitalized publicly owned corporations not owned by farmers at all.
>> Non-farm investors are buy up ethanol production plants and farmers are
>> back
>> to growing a commodity crop and suffering the whims of the market and
>> speculators.
>>
>>
>> Here in Sweden the farmers are buying wind mills, selling the power to 
>> the
>>> power distributors, the paper and pulp industry is burning the black
>>> liqueur
>>> residue and producing power from it, both for own consumption and for
>>> sales.
>>> Some farmers are growing canola, producing biodiesel from it for own
>>> consumption and for sales. The ethanol industry has begun to shift from
>>> approaching ethanol as a solvent to treating it as fuel. There is a new
>>> combinative proposing that wood should be used for producing methanol 
>>> for
>>> energy purposes.
>>> None of these areas h

Re: [Biofuel] new topic

[Jan Warnqvist]

Prifitability to the new energy business is a matter for the government to 
ensure, assuming that the government wants such a development, of course.
In Sweden. Italy and UK (I think) there is a system of green certificates 
for power generation. These systems oblige the power distributors to buy a 
min quote of green certificates, allowing of certain amount of the power 
will be green.
As for the biodiesel or even ethanol, the authorities will have to enforce 
the production and consumption of these, with grants or by quotas.
But there is another factor to take into consideration as well: Big systems 
are sensitive to terrorst attacks, technical malfunctions etc. That in 
itself is a reason to encourage "small" scale energy production.
- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] new topic


> On 9/19/07, Jan Warnqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>> my time here in Ageratec has provided me with some observations which I
>> would like the list members to share with me:
>> We are in the business of producing energy from sources which originally
>> are meant for food purposes or food waste. It is obvious that this new
>> energy sector has very few of the traditional energy suppliers, rather 
>> new
>> actors in this field of green energy.
>
>
> I don't think the renewable energy industry is nearly as profitable as the
> existing oil industry. The investments in renewables by big oil is only to
> comply with mandatory state and federal requirements. If renewables ever
> take off and actually threaten their profits the oil giants will have tens
> of billions of dollars available to buyout everyone, and in the end they 
> own
> it all again.
>
> It is happening with ethanol production. What started as cooperatively 
> owned
> ethanol plants financed by groups of local farmers has grown into highly
> capitalized publicly owned corporations not owned by farmers at all.
> Non-farm investors are buy up ethanol production plants and farmers are 
> back
> to growing a commodity crop and suffering the whims of the market and
> speculators.
>
>
> Here in Sweden the farmers are buying wind mills, selling the power to the
>> power distributors, the paper and pulp industry is burning the black 
>> liqueur
>> residue and producing power from it, both for own consumption and for 
>> sales.
>> Some farmers are growing canola, producing biodiesel from it for own
>> consumption and for sales. The ethanol industry has begun to shift from
>> approaching ethanol as a solvent to treating it as fuel. There is a new
>> combinative proposing that wood should be used for producing methanol for
>> energy purposes.
>> None of these areas have mineral oil companies,  nuclear, coal  or hydro
>> power companies or any other traditional suppliers of energy involved in
>> their business. This teaches us that the new energy will be dominated by 
>> new
>> actors, which means that there is a great need for knowledge and know-how
>> both for the energy products as such, and also for the energy business
>> itself. This demand exsists not only within the actors, but also within 
>> the
>> authorities, the traditional actors and the industry used to produce food
>> etc.
>> The same development will no doubt strike the lubricant industry. The new
>> green lubricants will no doubt be forced out into the market by new 
>> actors.
>> So we are actually into a process which will change the power balance,
>> intensely stalled by the traditional actors and anybody who gains from 
>> their
>> power. This may be a long hard struggle, be the outcome is given on
>> forehand:
>> If we want to consume energy it has to be renewable. We may have to
>> decrease our consumption, but that does not mean that our welfare or
>> independence will suffer. On the contrary, this is a major stimulation 
>> for
>> new technology, new solutions and - for new actors. So - hang in there, 
>> even
>> to your nails.
>>
>> Jan Warnqvist
>> -- next part --
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>> ___
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>> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
>>
>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
>> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000
>> messa

[Biofuel] new topic

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello all,
my time here in Ageratec has provided me with some observations which I would 
like the list members to share with me:
We are in the business of producing energy from sources which originally are 
meant for food purposes or food waste. It is obvious that this new energy 
sector has very few of the traditional energy suppliers, rather new actors in 
this field of green energy. Here in Sweden the farmers are buying wind mills, 
selling the power to the power distributors, the paper and pulp industry is 
burning the black liqueur residue and producing power from it, both for own 
consumption and for sales. Some farmers are growing canola, producing biodiesel 
from it for own consumption and for sales. The ethanol industry has begun to 
shift from approaching ethanol as a solvent to treating it as fuel. There is a 
new combinative proposing that wood should be used for producing methanol for 
energy purposes. 
None of these areas have mineral oil companies,  nuclear, coal  or hydro power 
companies or any other traditional suppliers of energy involved in their 
business. This teaches us that the new energy will be dominated by new actors, 
which means that there is a great need for knowledge and know-how both for the 
energy products as such, and also for the energy business itself. This demand 
exsists not only within the actors, but also within the authorities, the 
traditional actors and the industry used to produce food etc.
The same development will no doubt strike the lubricant industry. The new green 
lubricants will no doubt be forced out into the market by new actors. 
So we are actually into a process which will change the power balance, 
intensely stalled by the traditional actors and anybody who gains from their 
power. This may be a long hard struggle, be the outcome is given on forehand:
If we want to consume energy it has to be renewable. We may have to decrease 
our consumption, but that does not mean that our welfare or independence will 
suffer. On the contrary, this is a major stimulation for new technology, new 
solutions and - for new actors. So - hang in there, even to your nails.

Jan Warnqvist
-- next part --
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URL: /pipermail/attachments/20070919/625bf774/attachment.html 
___
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Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] (was Glycerine Settling Time) removing salt/dirt fromwvo

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Roderick. A definiyion is on its place:
A salt is basically a compound built up from the reaction of a metal and an 
acid.There are other salts too, but we can leave them for now.  This means that 
soaps are salts, since they are built up from metal ions (Na+ or K+ in 
connection with biodiesel) and fatty acids. These are formed as a by-reaction 
in the trans-esterification process, often encouraged by the water content. 
Salt in every-day talk is NaCl sodium chloride , where in this case the 
chlorine is fetched from HCl, hydrochloric acid. Does this spread any light to 
you ?
You are using acetic acid to break the emulsion. This will create the salts 
potassium or sodium acetate and water. 
Best regards
Jan
  - Original Message - 
  From: Roderick Roth 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 6:03 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (was Glycerine Settling Time) removing salt/dirt 
fromwvo


   Hello Jan
  May I jump into the discussion? Jan you have just mentioned the word "salts" 
isn't that one of the ingrediants for making very good quality soap? Hence 
possibly helping make a great emultion during the first wash on the quality 
esters. I am assuming that salts will remain in the whole process, not being 
disolved in any manner from the methoxide right? Some salt should be drained 
with the glycern right? Possibly leaving some salt in the unwashed ester.
My last two reactions have had the same feedstock, ( a very popular 
restaurant which salts their fry's heavily, lol) both reactions were two stage 
acid/base reactions becos the titration is consistantly over 14 eww . 
Here are the wash results from both batches of Quality Tested BD:  
   Reaction #21  using 1500L unwashed oil as a feedstock:the resulting 1380 
Litre batch of quality BD required 3.5 litres of pure 99% vinagar to break the 
first wash emultion. 
   Reaction #22 using  1500L PREWASHED oil of the same feedstock : the 
resulting 1450L batch only required 1 Litre of 99% pure vinagar, to break the 
first wash emultion.  
  Jan  does this observation make any sense? Think it could be salt?
   -Rod.

  Jan Warnqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Joe.
There were probably small amounts of mono- and diglycerides left in the 
biodiesel, and/or possibly soaps which together are excellent emulsifiers. A 
strong acid will divide the glycerides into fatty acids and glycerine ,and the 
soaps into salts and fatty acids, which then goes into a fat phanse and an 
aquaeus phase, possibly with the salts in the bottom.'
Best regards
Jan
  - Original Message - 
  From: Joe Street 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 3:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time


  Hi Jan;

  Ok your post agrees with what Andres said.  So how do we explain Tom's 
experiment then?  To recap (Tom correct me if I miss something here) he took 
washed esters that passed the methanol test and added water and (of course) no 
emulsion when agitated. Whatever mono and diglycerides were in the esters were 
small but present I assume, but yet no emusion. Then added some small quantity 
of glycerol ( which had been separated from the soaps, FFA and salts) and 
agitated again and did get an emulsion.  I have had the feeling glycerin has 
usually been the cause of emulsion problems when I have had them.  No doubt a 
poorly reacted batch is much more likely to have the problem but is that really 
due to the glycerides or is it glycerin which hasn't settled.  Remember we 
started this discussion that the glycerin settles much slower in a poorly 
completed run.

  BTW as an addition to this discussion look what someone just posted on my 
yahoo group!  Using glycerin cocktail to BREAK an emulsion.  Now that's 
radical!!?? 

  http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/breakingemulsions/

  Joe

  Jan Warnqvist wrote:

Hi evereybody. I feel obliged to enter this discussion. Pure glycerine is   not 
a good emulsifier due to the fact that there are three OH-groups and   that the 
carbon s in the first  and third positions are surronded by two   hydrogene 
atoms. This makes the glycerine hydrophilic in five places   alltogether. 
However, the mono- and diglycerides are excellent emulsifiers.   Only small 
amounts of these are sufficient to create stable emulsions. Would   somebody 
agree with me on that ?Jan Warnqvist 
 - Original Message -   From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  To: 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:53 AM  Subject: 
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling TimeHi TomHi Keith,  
Then if you do one-litre test batches first, especially with iffy  batches of 
oil,  Ops.I took Joe's point to be: If you have to 
re-process it is possible to  use info from the QT to determine how much (how 
little) m

Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Joe.
There were probably small amounts of mono- and diglycerides left in the 
biodiesel, and/or possibly soaps which together are excellent emulsifiers. A 
strong acid will divide the glycerides into fatty acids and glycerine ,and the 
soaps into salts and fatty acids, which then goes into a fat phanse and an 
aquaeus phase, possibly with the salts in the bottom.'
Best regards
Jan
  - Original Message - 
  From: Joe Street 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 3:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time


  Hi Jan;

  Ok your post agrees with what Andres said.  So how do we explain Tom's 
experiment then?  To recap (Tom correct me if I miss something here) he took 
washed esters that passed the methanol test and added water and (of course) no 
emulsion when agitated. Whatever mono and diglycerides were in the esters were 
small but present I assume, but yet no emusion. Then added some small quantity 
of glycerol ( which had been separated from the soaps, FFA and salts) and 
agitated again and did get an emulsion.  I have had the feeling glycerin has 
usually been the cause of emulsion problems when I have had them.  No doubt a 
poorly reacted batch is much more likely to have the problem but is that really 
due to the glycerides or is it glycerin which hasn't settled.  Remember we 
started this discussion that the glycerin settles much slower in a poorly 
completed run.

  BTW as an addition to this discussion look what someone just posted on my 
yahoo group!  Using glycerin cocktail to BREAK an emulsion.  Now that's 
radical!!?? 

  http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/breakingemulsions/

  Joe

  Jan Warnqvist wrote:

Hi evereybody. I feel obliged to enter this discussion. Pure glycerine is 
not a good emulsifier due to the fact that there are three OH-groups and 
that the carbon s in the first  and third positions are surronded by two 
hydrogene atoms. This makes the glycerine hydrophilic in five places 
alltogether. However, the mono- and diglycerides are excellent emulsifiers. 
Only small amounts of these are sufficient to create stable emulsions. Would 
somebody agree with me on that ?

Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time


  Hi Tom

Hi Keith,

  Then if you do one-litre test batches first, especially with iffy
batches of oil,
Ops.

I took Joe's point to be: If you have to re-process it is possible to
use info from the QT to determine how much (how little) methanol you'll 
need
to use.
  I also took that point, there were others though. It's a useful
method, cheaper reprocessing, but I think we all agree that
reprocessing itself is to be avoided if at all possible. Or I thought
we did anyway.

I think that both Joe and myself have "standardize(d) the process"
so that passing the QT is the rule, not the exception.
  That's not what Joe said:

It makes sense. Glycerin is an emulsifier.  Have you ever tried
dosing the batch again with a little methoxide?  After you remove
the glycerin it doesn't take much to get the last bit of the
reaction to go and settle out the remaining glycerin.  Of course
this is well known already.  Kenji and many others do straight base
catalysis as a two stage deal. You can do a methanol test of sorts
and the unreacted oil will settle out.  Then you can use the
measured amount of unreacted oil in the methanol test vial to
estimate the percentage unreacted oil in your batch and dose
accordingly with the stoichiometric amount of methoxide.  Assume
neutral oil for this calculation.  Rod and I do this regularly if
the batch fails the QT and it works like a charm.  Will save you
settling time in the long run.
  "Rod and I do this regularly if the batch fails the QT and it works
like a charm." That "if" makes it a little ambiguous, but the
"regularly" bit puts a question-mark on what's the rule and what's
the exception.

"Kenji and many others do straight base catalysis as a two stage deal."

Less methanol notwithstanding, my question remains - why reprocess,
as a standard procedure, instead of avoiding the problem in the first
place?

Could be wrong, but it sounds like Kenji and others might be doing
this rather than doing a titration - you know the old line: "There's
no need for titration, just use 6.25 g". And then using the methanol
test to try to fix the regularly ensuing disaster. A different
version of that here in Japan is to put the stuff through a
centrifuge, though the product still doesn't pass any quality test or
standards test.

What you describe is much the same as what I described, doing
(whatever) tests during the processing, adjusting accordingly and
conducting the whole thing as a

Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hi evereybody. I feel obliged to enter this discussion. Pure glycerine is 
not a good emulsifier due to the fact that there are three OH-groups and 
that the carbon s in the first  and third positions are surronded by two 
hydrogene atoms. This makes the glycerine hydrophilic in five places 
alltogether. However, the mono- and diglycerides are excellent emulsifiers. 
Only small amounts of these are sufficient to create stable emulsions. Would 
somebody agree with me on that ?

Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time


> Hi Tom
>
>>Hi Keith,
>>
>> > Then if you do one-litre test batches first, especially with iffy
>> > batches of oil,
>>
>>Ops.
>>
>> I took Joe's point to be: If you have to re-process it is possible to
>>use info from the QT to determine how much (how little) methanol you'll 
>>need
>>to use.
>
> I also took that point, there were others though. It's a useful
> method, cheaper reprocessing, but I think we all agree that
> reprocessing itself is to be avoided if at all possible. Or I thought
> we did anyway.
>
>> I think that both Joe and myself have "standardize(d) the process"
>>so that passing the QT is the rule, not the exception.
>
> That's not what Joe said:
>
>> >>It makes sense. Glycerin is an emulsifier.  Have you ever tried
>> >>dosing the batch again with a little methoxide?  After you remove
>> >>the glycerin it doesn't take much to get the last bit of the
>> >>reaction to go and settle out the remaining glycerin.  Of course
>> >>this is well known already.  Kenji and many others do straight base
>> >>catalysis as a two stage deal. You can do a methanol test of sorts
>> >>and the unreacted oil will settle out.  Then you can use the
>> >>measured amount of unreacted oil in the methanol test vial to
>> >>estimate the percentage unreacted oil in your batch and dose
>> >>accordingly with the stoichiometric amount of methoxide.  Assume
>> >>neutral oil for this calculation.  Rod and I do this regularly if
>> >>the batch fails the QT and it works like a charm.  Will save you
>> >>settling time in the long run.
>
> "Rod and I do this regularly if the batch fails the QT and it works
> like a charm." That "if" makes it a little ambiguous, but the
> "regularly" bit puts a question-mark on what's the rule and what's
> the exception.
>
> "Kenji and many others do straight base catalysis as a two stage deal."
>
> Less methanol notwithstanding, my question remains - why reprocess,
> as a standard procedure, instead of avoiding the problem in the first
> place?
>
> Could be wrong, but it sounds like Kenji and others might be doing
> this rather than doing a titration - you know the old line: "There's
> no need for titration, just use 6.25 g". And then using the methanol
> test to try to fix the regularly ensuing disaster. A different
> version of that here in Japan is to put the stuff through a
> centrifuge, though the product still doesn't pass any quality test or
> standards test.
>
> What you describe is much the same as what I described, doing
> (whatever) tests during the processing, adjusting accordingly and
> conducting the whole thing as a single stage.
>
> From Joe's replies so far I can't tell if he (and Rod, and Kenji and
> many others) are doing it that way or not, but it seems not:
>
> Your question (and mine): "Don't you have to heat up the whole batch
> again? (Time and energy)"
>
> Joe's reply: "This is all done right after draining the glycerin.  I
> leave the heater on during this period.  Do the rough QT right away
> before wash test."
>
> Rough QT? Anyway, how long is it settling before he drains the glyc?
>
>> I run a QT towards the end of the reaction because I do not want to
>>re-process.
>
> Indeed not.
>
>>It takes me a few minutes and I like the certainty of knowing
>>the BD is good before I pump it into my settling tank.
>> If the test should fail when I'm making a batch for my car, I could 
>> use
>>Joe's suggestion to help me better approximate the amount of methanol to
>>add.
>>
>> If the process has been standardized, why bother?
>
> I think this is a misunderstanding. I didn't say what you say below,
> "standardized; can't fail", and I didn't mean that standardis

Re: [Biofuel] Biofuel Quality Test

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Shawn. You were looking at all methanol soluble components including 
the glycerine which is rather soluble in methanol. Separate the glycerine 
next time.
Best regards
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "shawn patrick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Biofuel Mailing List" 
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 3:03 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Biofuel Quality Test


> Good Day All,
>
> My question is in regards to the Quality test develop by Jan Warnqvist. Is
> this test to be performed on the product before or after the glycerin has
> been removed, or does it matter. I performed the test with out removing
> glycerin and found that I got a clear bright phase except you could tell
> that there was a more dense substance at the bottom of the flask. I 
> assumed
> that was the glycerin since just extracted a sample from the process 
> without
> separating BD from glycerin. Does the glycerin dissolve in the methanol??
> Was I looking at the unprocessed materials in my BD??
>
> Regards
>
> Shawn Patrick
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Jatropha vs Castor

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello REXIS.
The castor oil is highly questionable as a raw material for biodiesel 
production due to two important issues::
1) The biodiesel from castor oil will have a too high viscosity well outside 
the specs.
2) The fatty acids of castor oil are very special and polymerize easily forming 
heavier compounds while releasing water.
Unsuitable ?  Yes.

With best regards
Jan Warnqvist
  - Original Message - 
  From: Rexis Tree 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 11:54 AM
  Subject: [Biofuel] Jatropha vs Castor


  I had did some web study on Castor and Jatropha.

  Jatropha, being promoted as the perfect biodiesel crop by India, is receiving 
international highlights and many investors are interested or even start 
investing in planting this crop. This may spoil the original intension of 
promoting Jatropha, when large forest was cleared again to make way for 
Jatropha plantation rather then planting them on the wasteland or marginal land 
where india planned to do. 

  Castor, the beautiful yet deadly seeds of castor, has been long used as an 
non edible oil source by mankind, as well as in other industrial application 
like paint, nylon, food addictive, lubricant, etc. And castor oil is a unuqie 
oil that it can completely dissolve in alcohol(not too sure what that means, no 
catalyst needed?). 

  Our focus here is obviously biofuel. About which is the better choice for 
biodiesel.

  Similarity:
   - drought resistance
   - oily seeds sitable for fuel purpose
   - seed cake made an excellence manure
   - poisonious and therefore producing non eatable oil
   - a kind of weed

  Jatropha advantage
   - it is said that Jatropha would trive on all kind of soil even rocky soil
   - Higher oil yield
   - it can improve the soil quality

  Jatropha disadvantage
   - since it is relatively new crop therefore it was not well understood, and 
inaccurate yield figure estimation may harm profit, more research and real data 
required
   - Jatropha is suitable for India where large area of their land consist of 
arid wasteland, but may not be suitable to other country like those with lots 
of rain forest.

  Castor advantage
   - Castor oil is one of the oldest traded goods, mankind has been trading 
castor oil since a few thousand years ago
   - Castor oil has a lot of industrial usage, therefore a market is already 
exsistance, thou limited
   - Since it was cultivated before in commercial plantation, its biology is 
well understood, and high yield hybrid is available
   - Castor can be found in medium climate area as an annual crop or in 
tropical area as a small tree
   - faster oil yield and long term yield is possible for tropical/warm area

  Castor disadvantage
   - It is said that castor will exhaust the soil quickly, fertilizer required 
to maintain a large castor plantation for a reasonable yield, but castor can 
often been seen as weed growing without attension, therefore it is possible to 
plant it as marginal plant in unattended idle area. 
   - it notorious poison is feared by the public, perhaps a research on castor 
poison(ricin) remedy is necessary.

  I do not have a conclusion currently, but as you can see, I am trying to open 
up Castor as an extra option here.

  Discussion:
   - Cultivation requirement: Jatropha maybe able to trive on most kind of 
soil, but I believe that to yield reasonable harvest, irrigation and fertilizer 
still required. Castor, while the cultivation requirement is better understood 
then Jatropha, it is still unknown about which one gets better yield if left 
unattended in a poor condition area, it is possible that each of them will 
exceed another under specific senarior, intercropping of castor and jatropha 
also an interesting subject. 

   - Harvesting: it seems like it is more labourious to harvest Jatropha, which 
its yield grow as scattered fruit, yes, olive harvester can be modified to 
harvest Jatropha but it will involved high capital. Castor seem to be easier to 
harvest as its yeild made of a branch of fruit, worker can just cut the whole 
branch at once. 

   - Toxicity: It seems that castor seeds are much more deadly then Jatropha, 
its toxic, which was being used in assasination, implies that it is extremely 
deadly and no remedy avaibale; however castor oil is perfectly harmless due to 
the fact that the toxic is only water soluble not oil soluble. Jatropha, even 
though toxic, in some case, was roasted and being eaten dangerously, but note 
that Jatropha toxic is deadly as well can kill a person by a 5-6 seeds, I am 
unable to find more articles about its toxicity and remedy about Jatropha here. 
Both plant is said can be detoxify by simply heating it and thurs destroying 
the toxic protein, confirmation needed here thou. 

   - Cost: this is also a main factor, the lower input with higher outcome is 
desired.

  Any other topics are welcome.

  Just my 1/2 cents, top up or add on are most welcome.




  Regards

Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel pH

[Jan Warnqvist]

If mixed thourghly the ions from the biodiesel will be more attracted to the 
water phase than the biodiesel phase. The pH value of the biodiesel will 
reflect in the water phase. So the water phase is the place to do the 
measurement in.
With best regards
Jan
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 4:54 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] biodiesel pH


>
> hello,
> Yes, you are right Andres and Keith.
> I realise there is no need to measure pH of fresh oil, and to do a
> titration on the used oils instead, I was not specific enough.
> So when the wash water has a pH of 7, the biodiesel should also, as the 
> ions
> should be equal in both solutions. is that right? By the way, whats
> virgin oil then?
>
> When doing the titration, as the 2 solutions of oil and methanol don't
> mix, do i just need to keep them vigorously shaken? Also would you
> suggest a pH meter for this step.
>
> Jan, When you say to use 10% biodiesel in 90% distiled water, mix, then
> let separate. Do you mean to test the biodiesel's or the water's pH?
>
> thankyou to all who replied.
>
> Josh.
>
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Re: [Biofuel] [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Off topic

[Jan Warnqvist]

There are a number of factors that in fluence the result of the 
trans-esterification. The general rule is that even if you  have an extremly 
low content of tri-glycerides, you may still have di-glycerides or even, but 
seldom mono-glycerides out of spec. And this may be a sign of too low 
processing temperature. This subject demands more development than suited here, 
I´m afraid.

Best regards
Jan Warnqvist
  - Original Message - 
  From: Joe Street 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 8:23 PM
  Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [Biofuel] Off topic


  Hey Jan;

  Since the reaction proceeds in stages from TRi- to Di- to Mono-glycerides and 
then finally to esters, I'm wondering if there is a statistical relationship to 
the fractions??  In other words if we do a reaction and find 8% triglycerides 
remaining can we estimate the fractions of diglycerides and monoglycerides as 
well since they are unmeasureable with this test?  Or would the ratios depend 
on what type of oil was being used and other factors such as FFA content?

  Joe

  Jan Warnqvist wrote:

Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol method had so much 
attention. Here is a development of the method:
Equipment needed for the analysis

  1.. One 250 ml separatory funnel 
  2.. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2) 
  3.. One magnetic stirrer 
  4.. Balancer with 0,05g acc. 
  5.. One 50 ml  narrowed neck E-flask 

Chemicals for the analysis

1. Water free methanol, min 225 g
2. FAME with water content less than  500 ppm, clear, bright and without 
visible impurities, min 25 g

Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of methanol in it. Then add 
exactly 25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids on the stirrer for 2 minutes. 
Take the beaker off the stirrer ans pour the content into the separation 
funnel.Take the clean e-flask to the balancer and tarate with the flask. Let 
any oil phase separate out from the biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the  
e-flask. Weigh the content and calculate the result:

1 -  m1/m2 = m3
where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel
m2 is the amount of methanol
m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is consisting from methyl 
esters.
The method will show huch much of the material by mass that is soluble in 
methanol. This includes mostl mono- and diglycerides. The residue consists 
therefore mostly from unreacted oil.

With best
    Jan Warnqvist
  - Original Message - 
  From: Joe Street 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 6:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations


  Hi Ray;

  Sorry for the delay.  Try this forum for more information on Delicas.

  http://delica.ca/forum/index.php

  Joe

  raymond greeley wrote:

I would like to see this van, what did you send it in. I have not been 
able to open
ray




--
  Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:48:02 -0400
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations

  Look for a mitsubishi delica.  A buddy of mine just imported one with 
low miles from Japan.  He loves it.

  Joe

  Luke Kareklas wrote:

Hello All, 

I am a Kid's Birthday Party Entertainer, as well as a Juggler, 
Magician, and "Balloon Guy."

I live in the Midwest, and have all 4 seasons during the year, if 
this is a helpful bit of information. 

Lately my entertainment business has gotten really busy and it's 
come time for me to buy a larger vehicle. I have been a fan of alternative 
fuels for years, but never pursued a diesel vehicle. 

I would like recommendations on what type of deisel van would you 
recommend that would most easily transfer over to a SVO, WVO, or biodiesel 
system for me to drive? I am looking for a 1/2 or 3/4 ton van, not really a 
"minivan" type of vehicle. 

Again, I am naive and new to all this and hope your thoughts will 
help ground me and get me pointed in the right direction. I guess I have to go 
buy a diesel vehicle before I can get moving on SVO, WVO, or Biodiesel fueling, 
right? 
Thank you very much. 

Luke

Luke Kareklas
Luke the Juggler
614-764-8010
www.LuketheJuggler.com


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Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic)

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Peter. You forgot the first signs of the formula. It should be: 1 - 
m1/m2 = m3
In your case: 1 - 25/225 = 0,.
There is also a definition error in the formula.
m1 = the amount of undissolved material
m2 = the amount of biodiesel put into the reaction
m3= The amount of biodiesel that is dissolved in methanol in mass%
Sorry about that.

The proportions between methanol and biodiesel is carefully balanced in 
order to make the test reproducable.

Best regards
Jan
- Original Message - 
From: "Guag Meister" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 3:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic)


> Hi Keith and Jan ;
>
> I read this with interest but I am quite confused.
> Please can we start by exlaining the underlying basis
> for this test??  Is it that unreacted oil will not
> dissolve in methanol?  Are we trying to dissolve the
> FAME in methanol and measure the remaining?? If we
> are, then why is it so important to measure exactly
> 225g methanol.  Why wouldn't 250g be OK for example??
> I can understand exactly 25g of biodiesel is
> necessary, but why exactly 225g methanol?  Perhaps I
> missed this in a previous post.
>
> Then when I try an example with your formula I again
> get confused.  Let's say we have perfect biodiesel. So
> this means all of if will dissolve in the methanol,
> right?
>
> By your formula :
>
> m3=m1/m2
> m3=25g/225g
> m3= 0.1
>
> So 0.111 is how much of the FAME is methyl esters for
> perfect FAME?  What does this mean??
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Peter G.
> Thailand
>
> --- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Greetings Jan
>>
>> Sorry for the late reply.
>>
>> Just to add my vote of thanks - the methanol test is
>> simple and
>> useful, it's helped a lot of people.
>>
>> I'd like to add this development to the quality
>> testing section at
>> Journey to Forever, would you agree?
>>
>> All best
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> >Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol
>> method had so much
>> >attention. Here is a development of the method:
>> >
>> >Equipment needed for the analysis
>> >
>> >1. One 250 ml separatory funnel
>> >2. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2)
>> >3. One magnetic stirrer
>> >4. Balancer with 0,05g acc.
>> >5. One 50 ml  narrowed neck E-flask
>> >
>> >Chemicals for the analysis
>> >
>> >1. Water free methanol, min 225 g
>> >2. FAME with water content less than  500 ppm,
>> clear, bright and
>> >without visible impurities, min 25 g
>> >
>> >Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of
>> methanol in it. Then
>> >add exactly 25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids
>> on the stirrer for
>> >2 minutes. Take the beaker off the stirrer ans pour
>> the content into
>> >the separation funnel.Take the clean e-flask to the
>> balancer and
>> >tarate with the flask. Let any oil phase separate
>> out from the
>> >biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the
>> e-flask. Weigh the
>> >content and calculate the result:
>> >
>> >1 -  m1/m2 = m3
>> >where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel
>> >m2 is the amount of methanol
>> >m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is
>> consisting from methyl esters.
>> >The method will show huch much of the material by
>> mass that is
>> >soluble in methanol. This includes mostl mono- and
>> diglycerides. The
>> >residue consists therefore mostly from unreacted
>> oil.
>> >
>> >With best
>> >Jan Warnqvist
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> archives (50,000 messages):
>>
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>>
>
>
>
>
> 
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who 
> knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
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Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic)

[Jan Warnqvist]

Sorry, there is a confusing definition error in the formula:
m1 = is the amount of undissolved material as a result of the test.
m2 = the amount of biodiesel put into the reaction

m3 = is the amount of biodiesel soluble in methanol in %

All the best
Jan
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic)


> Greetings Jan
>
> Sorry for the late reply.
>
> Just to add my vote of thanks - the methanol test is simple and
> useful, it's helped a lot of people.
>
> I'd like to add this development to the quality testing section at
> Journey to Forever, would you agree?
>
> All best
>
> Keith
>
>
>>Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol method had so much
>>attention. Here is a development of the method:
>>
>>Equipment needed for the analysis
>>
>>1. One 250 ml separatory funnel
>>2. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2)
>>3. One magnetic stirrer
>>4. Balancer with 0,05g acc.
>>5. One 50 ml  narrowed neck E-flask
>>
>>Chemicals for the analysis
>>
>>1. Water free methanol, min 225 g
>>2. FAME with water content less than  500 ppm, clear, bright and
>>without visible impurities, min 25 g
>>
>>Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of methanol in it. Then
>>add exactly 25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids on the stirrer for
>>2 minutes. Take the beaker off the stirrer ans pour the content into
>>the separation funnel.Take the clean e-flask to the balancer and
>>tarate with the flask. Let any oil phase separate out from the
>>biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the  e-flask. Weigh the
>>content and calculate the result:
>>
>>1 -  m1/m2 = m3
>>where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel
>>m2 is the amount of methanol
>>m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is consisting from methyl 
>>esters.
>>The method will show huch much of the material by mass that is
>>soluble in methanol. This includes mostl mono- and diglycerides. The
>>residue consists therefore mostly from unreacted oil.
>>
>>With best
>>Jan Warnqvist
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic)

[Jan Warnqvist]

Yes of course. It is very flattering.

With best regards
AGERATEC AB
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic)


> Greetings Jan
>
> Sorry for the late reply.
>
> Just to add my vote of thanks - the methanol test is simple and
> useful, it's helped a lot of people.
>
> I'd like to add this development to the quality testing section at
> Journey to Forever, would you agree?
>
> All best
>
> Keith
>
>
>>Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol method had so much
>>attention. Here is a development of the method:
>>
>>Equipment needed for the analysis
>>
>>1. One 250 ml separatory funnel
>>2. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2)
>>3. One magnetic stirrer
>>4. Balancer with 0,05g acc.
>>5. One 50 ml  narrowed neck E-flask
>>
>>Chemicals for the analysis
>>
>>1. Water free methanol, min 225 g
>>2. FAME with water content less than  500 ppm, clear, bright and
>>without visible impurities, min 25 g
>>
>>Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of methanol in it. Then
>>add exactly 25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids on the stirrer for
>>2 minutes. Take the beaker off the stirrer ans pour the content into
>>the separation funnel.Take the clean e-flask to the balancer and
>>tarate with the flask. Let any oil phase separate out from the
>>biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the  e-flask. Weigh the
>>content and calculate the result:
>>
>>1 -  m1/m2 = m3
>>where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel
>>m2 is the amount of methanol
>>m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is consisting from methyl 
>>esters.
>>The method will show huch much of the material by mass that is
>>soluble in methanol. This includes mostl mono- and diglycerides. The
>>residue consists therefore mostly from unreacted oil.
>>
>>With best
>>Jan Warnqvist
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] pH meters

[Jan Warnqvist]

Yes, Andres Secco is right. If you want to determine the free acidity of the 
virgin oil, you should use titration. But if you want to determine the pH 
value of the finished biodiesel (which should be close to 7) a pH meter is 
handy. But the pH has to be measured in a water phase, e.g. 10% biodiesel in 
distilled water, Just make sure that you first let the biodiesel and water 
to mix properly and then separate compleatly after that.

With best regards
AGERATEC AB
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "Andres Secco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] pH meters


Why a pH meter Joshua?.
Acidity does not makes sense in an oil phase. The right thing is to make a
titration
pH has no sense nor numeric sense in a non aqueous systems

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 6:35 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] pH meters


> Hello,
> Im making some biodiesel and I'm having some difficulty finding a
> reasonably priced electronic pH meter to purchase so I can test the virgin
> oil and the resulting biodiesel. it would be appreciated if anyone with an
> answer or some knowledge in this area could steer me in the right
> direction.
>
> Joshua
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Re: [Biofuel] [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Meth test (was Off topic)

[Jan Warnqvist]

Thank you Joe.
The determination by mass will give you a more precise idea of the methyl ester 
content.
With best
Jan Warnqvist
  - Original Message - 
  From: Joe Street 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:59 PM
  Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic)


  Hey Jan;

  Let me take the chance to thank you again for your contributions.  Also I'd 
like to let you know how WE have evolved your idea.  Me and this other dude in 
town ( who might be lurking herelol  - it was his idea actually) have taken 
to doing some kind of variation on your idea which helps us in the middle of 
the process.  I know you are talking about testing clean, washed and dried 
fuel, but check this out;  We take a sample ( I have a small test tube so I use 
3 ml of fuel and 27 ml meoh) after the reaction but before washing.  I know 
this contains catalyst, soap, water and whatever BUT when I stir it up, any 
unreacted oil settles out very quickly and gives me a gauge of how close I came 
to a complete reaction.  I can even measure the percentage of unreacted oil and 
use this to determine how much catalyst and methanol to hit the reactor with in 
order to complete the reaction. The unreacted stuff is treated as neutral oil 
when determining catalyst and methanol amounts ( ie 12% meoh v/v and 4.9 g/l 
koh)  If I am good and the reaction was very complete the first time, then only 
a little white powder (soap/catalyst?) settles in the bottom and the rest is 
clear and bright.  This is more useful than a pop bottle wash test IMHO.

  best regards
  Joe

  Jan Warnqvist wrote:

Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol method had so much 
attention. Here is a development of the method:
Equipment needed for the analysis

  1.. One 250 ml separatory funnel 
  2.. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2) 
  3.. One magnetic stirrer 
  4.. Balancer with 0,05g acc. 
  5.. One 50 ml  narrowed neck E-flask 

Chemicals for the analysis

1. Water free methanol, min 225 g
2. FAME with water content less than  500 ppm, clear, bright and without 
visible impurities, min 25 g

Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of methanol in it. Then add 
exactly 25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids on the stirrer for 2 minutes. 
Take the beaker off the stirrer ans pour the content into the separation 
funnel.Take the clean e-flask to the balancer and tarate with the flask. Let 
any oil phase separate out from the biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the  
e-flask. Weigh the content and calculate the result:

1 -  m1/m2 = m3
where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel
m2 is the amount of methanol
m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is consisting from methyl 
esters.
The method will show huch much of the material by mass that is soluble in 
methanol. This includes mostl mono- and diglycerides. The residue consists 
therefore mostly from unreacted oil.

With best
    Jan Warnqvist
  - Original Message - 
  From: Joe Street 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 6:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations


  Hi Ray;

  Sorry for the delay.  Try this forum for more information on Delicas.

  http://delica.ca/forum/index.php

  Joe

  raymond greeley wrote:

I would like to see this van, what did you send it in. I have not been 
able to open
ray




--
  Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:48:02 -0400
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations

  Look for a mitsubishi delica.  A buddy of mine just imported one with 
low miles from Japan.  He loves it.

  Joe

  Luke Kareklas wrote:

Hello All, 

I am a Kid's Birthday Party Entertainer, as well as a Juggler, 
Magician, and "Balloon Guy."

I live in the Midwest, and have all 4 seasons during the year, if 
this is a helpful bit of information. 

Lately my entertainment business has gotten really busy and it's 
come time for me to buy a larger vehicle. I have been a fan of alternative 
fuels for years, but never pursued a diesel vehicle. 

I would like recommendations on what type of deisel van would you 
recommend that would most easily transfer over to a SVO, WVO, or biodiesel 
system for me to drive? I am looking for a 1/2 or 3/4 ton van, not really a 
"minivan" type of vehicle. 

Again, I am naive and new to all this and hope your thoughts will 
help ground me and get me pointed in the right direction. I guess I have to go 
buy a diesel vehicle before I can get moving on SVO, WVO, or Biodiesel fueling, 
right? 
Thank you very much. 

Re: [Biofuel] Off topic

[Jan Warnqvist]

Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol method had so much attention. 
Here is a development of the method:
Equipment needed for the analysis

  1.. One 250 ml separatory funnel 
  2.. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2)
  3.. One magnetic stirrer 
  4.. Balancer with 0,05g acc.
  5.. One 50 ml  narrowed neck E-flask 

Chemicals for the analysis

1. Water free methanol, min 225 g
2. FAME with water content less than  500 ppm, clear, bright and without 
visible impurities, min 25 g

Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of methanol in it. Then add exactly 
25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids on the stirrer for 2 minutes. Take the 
beaker off the stirrer ans pour the content into the separation funnel.Take the 
clean e-flask to the balancer and tarate with the flask. Let any oil phase 
separate out from the biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the  e-flask. 
Weigh the content and calculate the result:

1 -  m1/m2 = m3
where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel
m2 is the amount of methanol
m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is consisting from methyl esters.
The method will show huch much of the material by mass that is soluble in 
methanol. This includes mostl mono- and diglycerides. The residue consists 
therefore mostly from unreacted oil.

With best
Jan Warnqvist
  - Original Message - 
  From: Joe Street 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 6:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations


  Hi Ray;

  Sorry for the delay.  Try this forum for more information on Delicas.

  http://delica.ca/forum/index.php

  Joe

  raymond greeley wrote:

I would like to see this van, what did you send it in. I have not been able 
to open
ray




--
  Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:48:02 -0400
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations

  Look for a mitsubishi delica.  A buddy of mine just imported one with low 
miles from Japan.  He loves it.

  Joe

  Luke Kareklas wrote:

Hello All, 

I am a Kid's Birthday Party Entertainer, as well as a Juggler, 
Magician, and "Balloon Guy."

I live in the Midwest, and have all 4 seasons during the year, if this 
is a helpful bit of information. 

Lately my entertainment business has gotten really busy and it's come 
time for me to buy a larger vehicle. I have been a fan of alternative fuels for 
years, but never pursued a diesel vehicle. 

I would like recommendations on what type of deisel van would you 
recommend that would most easily transfer over to a SVO, WVO, or biodiesel 
system for me to drive? I am looking for a 1/2 or 3/4 ton van, not really a 
"minivan" type of vehicle. 

Again, I am naive and new to all this and hope your thoughts will help 
ground me and get me pointed in the right direction. I guess I have to go buy a 
diesel vehicle before I can get moving on SVO, WVO, or Biodiesel fueling, 
right? 
Thank you very much. 

Luke

Luke Kareklas
Luke the Juggler
614-764-8010
www.LuketheJuggler.com


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Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Keith.
He is in Sweden on rapeseed BD. But, as far as I remember, somebody in the 
US wrote about some similar problems with his Chevy.
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels


> >Hello everybody in the New World and others.
>>I have an aquintance who is running his Chevy 6,2 litre truck on
>>biodiesel, and he experiences mysterious engine stops etc. The car
>>will start immedeatly again after a few seconds. He suspects it to
>>be a computer bug in the injection system.Anybody with similar
>>problems ?
>>
>>AGERATEC AB
>>Jan Warnqvist
>
> Where is he, Jan? In Sweden or in the US? In other words is he using
> rapeseed biodiesel or soy biodiesel?
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels

[Jan Warnqvist]

Yes, he has. Once was enough.
  - Original Message - 
  From: John Beale 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 3:15 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels


  Ask him if he's replaced his fuel filter since switching to Biodiesel.




  On Apr 23, 2007, at 8:58 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote:


He has consumed approx. 600 ltrs and encountered problems from the very 
beginning.

  - Original Message -
  From: John Beale 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 2:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels

  But did he make the switch recently or has he been running biodiesel for 
years and he's just now experiencing problems?
  John



  On Apr 23, 2007, at 8:21 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote:


He is running on 100% BD and the problems began immedeately on the 
first tank of BD.

  - Original Message -
  From: John Beale
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 1:55 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels

  How long ago did he switch to biodiesel and is he running on 100% BD 
or a mix?
  John


  On Apr 23, 2007, at 7:09 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote:


Hello everybody in the New World and others.
I have an aquintance who is running his Chevy 6,2 litre truck on 
biodiesel, and he experiences mysterious engine stops etc. The car will start 
immedeatly again after a few seconds. He suspects it to be a computer bug in 
the injection system.Anybody with similar problems ?
 
AGERATEC AB
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Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels

[Jan Warnqvist]

He has consumed approx. 600 ltrs and encountered problems from the very 
beginning.
  - Original Message - 
  From: John Beale 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 2:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels


  But did he make the switch recently or has he been running biodiesel for 
years and he's just now experiencing problems?
  John



  On Apr 23, 2007, at 8:21 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote:


He is running on 100% BD and the problems began immedeately on the first 
tank of BD.

  - Original Message -
  From: John Beale 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 1:55 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels

  How long ago did he switch to biodiesel and is he running on 100% BD or a 
mix?
  John


  On Apr 23, 2007, at 7:09 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote:


Hello everybody in the New World and others.
I have an aquintance who is running his Chevy 6,2 litre truck on 
biodiesel, and he experiences mysterious engine stops etc. The car will start 
immedeatly again after a few seconds. He suspects it to be a computer bug in 
the injection system.Anybody with similar problems ?
 
AGERATEC AB
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Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels

[Jan Warnqvist]

He is running on 100% BD and the problems began immedeately on the first tank 
of BD.
  - Original Message - 
  From: John Beale 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 1:55 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels


  How long ago did he switch to biodiesel and is he running on 100% BD or a mix?
  John


  On Apr 23, 2007, at 7:09 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote:


Hello everybody in the New World and others.
I have an aquintance who is running his Chevy 6,2 litre truck on biodiesel, 
and he experiences mysterious engine stops etc. The car will start immedeatly 
again after a few seconds. He suspects it to be a computer bug in the injection 
system.Anybody with similar problems ?
 
AGERATEC AB
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[Biofuel] Chevy diesels

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello everybody in the New World and others.
I have an aquintance who is running his Chevy 6,2 litre truck on biodiesel, and 
he experiences mysterious engine stops etc. The car will start immedeatly again 
after a few seconds. He suspects it to be a computer bug in the injection 
system.Anybody with similar problems ?

AGERATEC AB
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Re: [Biofuel] Acids

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Robin et al.
The acidic step is necessary for neutralisation of the biodiesel. But, 
basically any mineral acid can be used. The most common (and efficient ?) is 
concentrated sulphuric acid. Even hydrochloric acid can be used, however 
usually available as 35-36% solution. For neutralisation similar amounts of 
phosphoric and sulphuric acid are required, all according to the need for 
neutralisation.
With best regards
AGERATEC AB
Jan Warnqvist

- Original Message - 
From: "Robin Pentney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:49 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Acids


> Hi!
> Can anyone tell me what the purpose of the Phosphoric acid in the
> 'Foolproof method? I would like to try it (the method) but phosphoric
> is only made in Alberta by a fertilizer mfr just down the road from
> me, but they will only make enough for themselves. Rats! The oilfield
> creates a huge demand for it here, so the suppliers who ship it up
> from the states or from Winnipeg mark it up mercilessly. $158.00 for
> a 20 L pail! It is 75% so there's lots of diluting to do , but still
> Can I use another acid for the wash? Can you describe the reaction
> for me ( a neophyte ) In the wash process so I can fully understand
> it? I am striving to achieve the best quality fuel possible so that
> others will not be discouraged when if they see me sitting at the
> side of the road beside my car , with the hood up and my thumb out
> What would I dilute the 75% phosporic with? Distilled water?
> Tnx
> Robin
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate

[Jan Warnqvist]

Ken, the important thing is that you do the measurements necessary in order 
to decide how to proceed.

With best regards
AGERATEC AB
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "JAMES PHELPS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate


> Jan, Ken,
> I have pushed the procedure to double the acid amount in the first phase,
> dewatered and went to the second phase (base base) in small batches 
> without
> problem.  I suggest testing in small amounts and working up a procedure 
> that
> fits the product. This will take some time to do but when you get "it" you
> can get repeatbility thereafter.  I did use Venturi acid introduction so
> that perhaps makes a big difference as well.
>
> Jim
>
>
>>From: "Jan Warnqvist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>To: 
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate
>>Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:48:10 +0100
>>
>>If you have that much tri-glycerides you may most likely do one acid
>>esterification followed by one base trans-esterification. Just check the
>>FFA
>>value after the first step after removal of the (acidic) water phase. If
>>the
>>FFA value is < 5%, go as described above, in any other case as described
>>before.
>>With best regards
>>AGERATEC AB
>>Jan Warnqvist
>>- Original Message -
>>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: 
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:02 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate
>>
>>
>> > Thanks again Jan.
>> >
>> > Its 71.8% FFA.  But doing acid esterification twice? Do you finish with
>>a
>> > base transesterification after the two acid esterification?
>> > Please pardon my ignorance.  Can you expound a bit.  First time to hear
>> > about acid esterification twice.  Appreciate very much your help on the
>> > matter.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > Ken
>> >
>> > - Original Message -
>> > From: "Jan Warnqvist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > To: 
>> > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 4:46 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate
>> >
>> >
>> >> No, if you are working with 100% free fatty acids, you will have to do
>> >> the
>> >> ACID esterification twice with water content evapoation inbetween
>> >>
>> >> With best regards
>> >> AGERATEC AB
>> >> Jan Warnqvist.
>> >> - Original Message -
>> >> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> To: 
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:22 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Thanks Jan,
>> >> >
>> >> > So you are saying that Aleks Kac's two stage process is the way to 
>> >> > go
>> >> > on
>> >> > this one?  Start with the acid-based stage and finish with the
>> > base-based
>> >> > stage.  That's doing it twice right?
>> >> >
>> >> > Am doing small batches on the single stage base process (about 100
>> > liters
>> >> > veg. oil).  Will blending this with new veg. oil make a difference?
>> >> >
>> >> > Been reading the Foolproof Method over and over again to familiarize
>> >> > myself.
>> >> > Looks like it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Much thanks again.
>> >> >
>> >> > Ken
>> >> >
>> >> > - Original Message -
>> >> > From: "Jan Warnqvist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> > To: 
>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:35 PM
>> >> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> Hello Ken,
>> >> >> fatty acids are possible to esterify with an acid catalyst. The
>>formed
>> >> > water
>> >> >> has to be drawn off, so it is always nice to start with a low water
>> >> > content.
>> >> >> Performed correctly, the esterification will produce 90-95% esters.
>> >> > Usually
>> >> >> these kinds of reactions are performed twice for a good conversion
>> > grade.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> With best reg

Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate

[Jan Warnqvist]

If you have that much tri-glycerides you may most likely do one acid 
esterification followed by one base trans-esterification. Just check the FFA 
value after the first step after removal of the (acidic) water phase. If the 
FFA value is < 5%, go as described above, in any other case as described 
before.
With best regards
AGERATEC AB
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate


> Thanks again Jan.
>
> Its 71.8% FFA.  But doing acid esterification twice? Do you finish with a
> base transesterification after the two acid esterification?
> Please pardon my ignorance.  Can you expound a bit.  First time to hear
> about acid esterification twice.  Appreciate very much your help on the
> matter.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ken
>
> ----- Original Message -
> From: "Jan Warnqvist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 4:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate
>
>
>> No, if you are working with 100% free fatty acids, you will have to do 
>> the
>> ACID esterification twice with water content evapoation inbetween
>>
>> With best regards
>> AGERATEC AB
>> Jan Warnqvist.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:22 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate
>>
>>
>> > Thanks Jan,
>> >
>> > So you are saying that Aleks Kac's two stage process is the way to go 
>> > on
>> > this one?  Start with the acid-based stage and finish with the
> base-based
>> > stage.  That's doing it twice right?
>> >
>> > Am doing small batches on the single stage base process (about 100
> liters
>> > veg. oil).  Will blending this with new veg. oil make a difference?
>> >
>> > Been reading the Foolproof Method over and over again to familiarize
>> > myself.
>> > Looks like it.
>> >
>> > Much thanks again.
>> >
>> > Ken
>> >
>> > - Original Message -
>> > From: "Jan Warnqvist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > To: 
>> > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:35 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hello Ken,
>> >> fatty acids are possible to esterify with an acid catalyst. The formed
>> > water
>> >> has to be drawn off, so it is always nice to start with a low water
>> > content.
>> >> Performed correctly, the esterification will produce 90-95% esters.
>> > Usually
>> >> these kinds of reactions are performed twice for a good conversion
> grade.
>> >>
>> >> With best regards
>> >> AGERATEC AB
>> >> Jan Warnqvist
>> >> - Original Message -
>> >> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> To: 
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:18 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Hi everyone,
>> >> >
>> >> > I sent this out a few days ago.  I was told by someone in the oil
> mill
>> >> > that
>> >> > crude fatty acid distillate is just a fancy name for their seconds 
>> >> > or
>> >> > reject
>> >> > oils, which soap factories take from them and make into soap. 
>> >> > Anyone
>> > has
>> >> > any experience with this kind of stock being made into biodiesel?
> Will
>> >> > such
>> >> > a high FFA content give problems?
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks.
>> >> >
>> >> > Ken
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > - Original Message -
>> >> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> > To: 
>> >> > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:15 AM
>> >> > Subject: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> Hi everyone,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> An oil mill has just told me that they have excess of crude fatty
> acid
>> >> >> distillate which they can give me with the following specifications
> :
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Free Fatty Acid (As Lauric)  -  71.8%
>> >> >> Iodine Value mg I/g  - 10
>

Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate

[Jan Warnqvist]

No, if you are working with 100% free fatty acids, you will have to do the 
ACID esterification twice with water content evapoation inbetween

With best regards
AGERATEC AB
Jan Warnqvist.
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate


> Thanks Jan,
>
> So you are saying that Aleks Kac's two stage process is the way to go on
> this one?  Start with the acid-based stage and finish with the base-based
> stage.  That's doing it twice right?
>
> Am doing small batches on the single stage base process (about 100 liters
> veg. oil).  Will blending this with new veg. oil make a difference?
>
> Been reading the Foolproof Method over and over again to familiarize 
> myself.
> Looks like it.
>
> Much thanks again.
>
> Ken
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jan Warnqvist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate
>
>
>> Hello Ken,
>> fatty acids are possible to esterify with an acid catalyst. The formed
> water
>> has to be drawn off, so it is always nice to start with a low water
> content.
>> Performed correctly, the esterification will produce 90-95% esters.
> Usually
>> these kinds of reactions are performed twice for a good conversion grade.
>>
>> With best regards
>> AGERATEC AB
>> Jan Warnqvist
>> - Original Message -
>> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate
>>
>>
>> > Hi everyone,
>> >
>> > I sent this out a few days ago.  I was told by someone in the oil mill
>> > that
>> > crude fatty acid distillate is just a fancy name for their seconds or
>> > reject
>> > oils, which soap factories take from them and make into soap.  Anyone
> has
>> > any experience with this kind of stock being made into biodiesel?  Will
>> > such
>> > a high FFA content give problems?
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > Ken
>> >
>> >
>> > - Original Message -
>> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > To: 
>> > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:15 AM
>> > Subject: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hi everyone,
>> >>
>> >> An oil mill has just told me that they have excess of crude fatty acid
>> >> distillate which they can give me with the following specifications :
>> >>
>> >> Free Fatty Acid (As Lauric)  -  71.8%
>> >> Iodine Value mg I/g  - 10
>> >> Total Fatty Matter- 96%
>> >> Moisture & Impurities   - 0.5%
>> >> Saponifiable Value mg KOH/g   -  260
>> >> Unsaponifiable Matter-  0.32%
>> >>
>> >> I am now doing some small production for my own use with a blend of 
>> >> WVO
>> > and
>> >> new oil on the single stage process.  I've read up on the two stage
>> > process
>> >> and it looks like the above will take a two stage process with 71.8%
> FFA.
>> >> Am I right?  Anyone out there with some thoughts on the matter?  Its
> free
>> >> stuff for me although its only about 200liters monthly.  Would it be
>> > better
>> >> to blend it or process it separately?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >>
>> >> Ken
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Biofuel mailing list
>> >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> >>
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>> >>
>> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>> >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>> >>
>> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
>> > messages):
>> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Biofuel mailing list
>> > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> >
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>> >
>> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>> >
>> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archiv

Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Ken,
fatty acids are possible to esterify with an acid catalyst. The formed water 
has to be drawn off, so it is always nice to start with a low water content. 
Performed correctly, the esterification will produce 90-95% esters. Usually 
these kinds of reactions are performed twice for a good conversion grade.

With best regards
AGERATEC AB
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate


> Hi everyone,
>
> I sent this out a few days ago.  I was told by someone in the oil mill 
> that
> crude fatty acid distillate is just a fancy name for their seconds or 
> reject
> oils, which soap factories take from them and make into soap.  Anyone has
> any experience with this kind of stock being made into biodiesel?  Will 
> such
> a high FFA content give problems?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ken
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:15 AM
> Subject: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate
>
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> An oil mill has just told me that they have excess of crude fatty acid
>> distillate which they can give me with the following specifications :
>>
>> Free Fatty Acid (As Lauric)  -  71.8%
>> Iodine Value mg I/g  - 10
>> Total Fatty Matter- 96%
>> Moisture & Impurities   - 0.5%
>> Saponifiable Value mg KOH/g   -  260
>> Unsaponifiable Matter-  0.32%
>>
>> I am now doing some small production for my own use with a blend of WVO
> and
>> new oil on the single stage process.  I've read up on the two stage
> process
>> and it looks like the above will take a two stage process with 71.8% FFA.
>> Am I right?  Anyone out there with some thoughts on the matter?  Its free
>> stuff for me although its only about 200liters monthly.  Would it be
> better
>> to blend it or process it separately?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Biofuel mailing list
>> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>>
>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
>> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
> messages):
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
> messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>
> 


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[Biofuel] Question

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hi all,
came across some info on Jatropha oil recently. The oil from some spieces is 
considered non-edible, but I have found no reason for it. Can somebody spread a 
little light on this ?

Jan Warnqvist
aGERATEC AB___
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Re: [Biofuel] Water Powered Engine / Electrolysis

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Doug, Andrew et al.
Hydrogen gas has a fine heat value, which makes it very interesting as an
energy source. However, as Doug pointed out, it will be necessary to obtain
the energy for the electrolysis from an outer source, why not from solar
cells, to make the energy balance favourable. Good Luck !
Jan Warnqvist
AGERATEC AB

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+ 46 554 201 89
+46 70 499 38 45
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 5:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Water Powered Engine / Electrolysis


> What this amounts to is a really lousy, incompetent attempt at a perpetual
> motion machine.
>
> You have to put in the energy to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen,
> then you get back the same energy when they recombine. There would be no
> surplus to run the vehicle even if every stage was perfectly efficient,
> which they are very far from being.
>
> Doug Woodard
> St, Catharines, Ontario, Canada
>
>
> > Just trying to pick the brains of the rest of the world
> >
> > This is pertaining to gasoline engines being run off of hydrogen from an
> > electrolysis reaction onboard the vehicle.
> > http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/feb2/carplans_doc.htm
> >
> > What is the probability of this working correctly? Anyone done it?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Andrew
>
>
>
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>
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>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
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>
>
>


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Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Tom.
Yes, it is likely that the high FFA content of the oil caused you problems
with the methanol test. But, the water content is also important. You should
get yourself a water test kit.
One way of pre-treatment is to do a two-step process. After the first
alkaline step, take off the glycerol and process the oil/ester with methanol
and sulphuric acid as catalyst. This will give you a very high ester
content. The amount of acid added has to be calculated upon the original FFA
value, of course.
With best regards
Jan Warnqvist
AGERATEC AB



+ 46 554 201 89
+46 70 499 38 45
- Original Message - 
From: "Thomas Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil


> Jan,
> You wrote:
> "The limit of FFA for a flawless trans-esterification is drawn at 5mg
> KOH/g of oil. Any value above will demand pre-treatment of the oil."
>
>  I have been blending the WVO I collect -> titration of  2 - 3 g
of
> 90%KOH/L. I recently ran a 76L batch of poor quality WVO . It titrated at
> 5.5g of 90%KOH/L. For the first time in months, the BD I produced failed
the
> methanol  quality test   not bad, but there were tiny buggers that did
> not dissolve.
>  I have been troubled by the failed test. I have never used WVO that
> titrated above 4g  90% KOH/L.
> 1. Is it reasonable assume that the failure to make quality BD was due to
> the poor quality of the WVO I used?
> 2. What pre-treatment would be appropriate?
>
>          Tom
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Jan Warnqvist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil
>
>
> > Hello Emre, Rafal et al.
> > I have to say that I partially disagree with some of your statements.
The
> > limit of FFA for a flawless trans-esterification is drawn at 5mg KOH/g
of
> > oil. Any value above will demand pre-treatment of the oil. It is always
> > important to check the water content, which should be below 0,5%. Try to
> > get
> > hold of a water-in-oil test kit for quick determination.
> > If we are talking about the EN standard, it is always necessary to
process
> > the oil/catalyst/methanol mix for 90 minutes to obtain the right values
> > for
> > tri- di- and monoglycerides. And - this assumes that you have correct
> > stochiometric conditions and no methanol losses during processing.
> > As for the phophatides and the chlorophyll compounds, my experience is
> > that
> > these are not very important for the processing result, unless the
values
> > of
> > these are extremely high (thousands of ppms). If so, the oil is usually
> > very
> > dark. Totally refined oil, on the other hand, may have preservatives
> > added,
> > and some of these will eat catalyst. So, good oil quality is a tricky
> > thing.
> > Best of luck to you !
> > Jan Warnqvist
> > AGERATEC AB
> >
>
>
>
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>
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messages):
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>
>
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Water content - was tirating a virgin oil

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Joe.
If you are trying to recycle the surplus 
methanol you should be aware of this:
MeOH 
+ KOH → MeO ‑ + K+ + H2O
Methanol 
and potassium hydroxide will form water. That is your first water source. The 
second is the water content of the fresh methanol which should be below 0,5%. 
The third water source is the oil, max water content 0,5%. And if you add 1kg of 
KOH you can expect it form 0,322 kgs of water as it dissolves in the methanol. 
So for a batch of 1000 kgs, these are the actual water contents:
Oil: 
5 kgs
Methanol 
: 1kg
KOH 
(20kg): 6,45 kgs
12,45 
kgs of water = 1,25%
So 
now you can understand why it can be necessary to dry the oil. To 
decrease the water content further I suggest that you purchase ready-made 
anhydrous catalyst, such as Potassium or Sodium Methoxide. In this case the 
surplus methanol will have a low water content and will be recyclable. For the 
water in methanol tests I can only say that this gravimetric method of yours is 
difficult. So far there is no simple quick and reliable method to do 
this.
Best 
of luck to you !
 
Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB
 
 
+ 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Joe Street 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:15 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Water content - 
  was tirating a virgin oil
  Jan;Further to my post from yesterday regarding the 
  0.5% water in oil as a limit;  I am assuming that this percentage relies 
  on fairly anhydrous methoxide, and therefore is the maximum water that the 
  process can tolerate. Is this a safe assumption?  And if so would it be 
  safe then to assume that if the oil is very dry the same absolute amount of 
  water could be present in another source?  I am asking because I am 
  working on methanol recovery now.  I can dry my oil quite well with 
  vacuum and heat but recovered methanol always has significant water.  If 
  I assume methanol is added at 20% of oil volume then the same absolute volume 
  of water present in the methanol can be 5 times higher i.e. 2.5% instread of 
  0.5% of oil volume?  Is this correct?  If so then I need only dry my 
  methanol to 97.5% to get good results with very dry oil.  I would 
  appreciate your thoughts on this.I have purchased a hydrometer in the 
  0.790 to 0.900 range so that I can test the water content of recovered 
  methanol.  The hydrometer is calibrated for 15 degrees C which is cooler 
  than room temperature.  Also there is the problem that if I add 50 ml 
  methanol and 50 ml water I don't get 100 ml of liquid!  Rather than try 
  to compensate the readings what I have decided to do is start with pure 
  methanol and add small amounts of water and record the readings at room 
  temperature to produce my own table based on percentages by volume.  I 
  will post these results so that others can benefit from it.  My first 
  test which was a mixture of methanol recovered from fuel mixed with methanol 
  recovered from glycerin cocktail measured 0.813 at RT.  That's a lot of 
  water.  Sigh.Stay tuned for more.JoeJan Warnqvist 
  wrote:
  Hello Emre, Rafal et al.
I have to say that I partially disagree with some of your statements. The
limit of FFA for a flawless trans-esterification is drawn at 5mg KOH/g of
oil. Any value above will demand pre-treatment of the oil. It is always
important to check the water content, which should be below 0,5%. Try to get
hold of a water-in-oil test kit for quick determination.
If we are talking about the EN standard, it is always necessary to process
the oil/catalyst/methanol mix for 90 minutes to obtain the right values for
tri- di- and monoglycerides. And - this assumes that you have correct
stochiometric conditions and no methanol losses during processing.
As for the phophatides and the chlorophyll compounds, my experience is that
these are not very important for the processing result, unless the values of
these are extremely high (thousands of ppms). If so, the oil is usually very
dark. Totally refined oil, on the other hand, may have preservatives added,
and some of these will eat catalyst. So, good oil quality is a tricky thing.
Best of luck to you !
Jan Warnqvist
AGERATEC AB


+ 46 554 201 89
+46 70 499 38 45
- Original Message - 
From: "EMRE ELMAS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil


  
Dear Rafal,

First of all, as long as you use cheap oil you should always be prepared
to
  
deal with much more FFA and water than it should normally contain. I think
your emulsion problem occurs as a result of highly contained water. If
that
  
is the problem you should first dry the oil then process the reaction.

Also if you use crude oil you should be very careful about the chemicals,
such as lesitine, in the oil. So always try to use degummed oil, if you
have
  
to process crude oil.

Another thing is, as you proba

Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol use

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Ken, Charles et al.
Ethanol can be somewhat tricky to deal with when it comes to producing
biodiesel.
The glycerine drop is related to the amount of ethyl esters that you have
created during the process. This is suggesting that you will need a certain
qty of ethyl esters produced in order to have a spontaneous glycerol drop.
To make sure that you have a sufficient amount, the ethanol stochiometric
surplus should be at least 75% or rather 100%. The stochiometric
relationships are much more important than increasing of the reaction
temperature, say 5 or 10 degrees. But also note that the ethanol inserted
has to be anhydrous.
Best of luck to you !
Jan Warnqvist
AGERATEC AB


+ 46 554 201 89
+46 70 499 38 45
- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Provost" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol use


>
> On Aug 21, 2006, at 1:57 PM, Charles List wrote:
>
>
> > I would like to know, however, if I can increase the temperature
> > of the  reaction mixture to cut down the time taken for the reaction
> > as  ethanol boils at 78C rather than 65C.
>
>
> You probably could, but the separation of glycerol takes such a
> long time with ethanol (hours maybe), and the reactants are all
> in solution that whole time (completely clear, single phase), that
> you probably don't need more than the usual heating to get the
> reaction to go as far as it will.
>
> -K
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
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messages):
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>
>
>


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Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Emre, Rafal et al.
I have to say that I partially disagree with some of your statements. The
limit of FFA for a flawless trans-esterification is drawn at 5mg KOH/g of
oil. Any value above will demand pre-treatment of the oil. It is always
important to check the water content, which should be below 0,5%. Try to get
hold of a water-in-oil test kit for quick determination.
If we are talking about the EN standard, it is always necessary to process
the oil/catalyst/methanol mix for 90 minutes to obtain the right values for
tri- di- and monoglycerides. And - this assumes that you have correct
stochiometric conditions and no methanol losses during processing.
As for the phophatides and the chlorophyll compounds, my experience is that
these are not very important for the processing result, unless the values of
these are extremely high (thousands of ppms). If so, the oil is usually very
dark. Totally refined oil, on the other hand, may have preservatives added,
and some of these will eat catalyst. So, good oil quality is a tricky thing.
Best of luck to you !
Jan Warnqvist
AGERATEC AB


+ 46 554 201 89
+46 70 499 38 45
- Original Message - 
From: "EMRE ELMAS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil


> Dear Rafal,
>
> First of all, as long as you use cheap oil you should always be prepared
to
> deal with much more FFA and water than it should normally contain. I think
> your emulsion problem occurs as a result of highly contained water. If
that
> is the problem you should first dry the oil then process the reaction.
>
> Also if you use crude oil you should be very careful about the chemicals,
> such as lesitine, in the oil. So always try to use degummed oil, if you
have
> to process crude oil.
>
> Another thing is, as you probably know, approximately 95 - 97 % of the
> reaction is completed in the first 35 minutes, so you do not have to wait
> for 2 hours. Also the alcohol boils at 65 C and the closer you get to that
> point, the more alcohol you will lose at the time you need it the most for
> the reaction. This prevents you to complete the reaction 100 %.
>
> As I mentioned above if you just watch the content of water and the other
> impurities in the oil you will be fine.
>
> Hopefully the information works for you. I am looking forward to hear from
> you soon.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Emre ELMAS
> Mobile: +90 533 517 72 45
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Rafal Szczesniak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >Subject: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil
> >Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:31:26 +0200
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >Recently I've came through problems with testing a cheap virgin oil
> >in my test processor which every time ended up with incomplete reactions
> >(emulsion problems). I did make the process longer (2 hours) and at
> >higher temperature (60-63 degC) - still nothing, though by product
> >separation is very nice.
> >
> >Today, I tried to titrate the oil and - to my surprise - it took 0.925ml
> >of KOH solution. This was my first experience with titration, so I can
> >also tell that the phenolophtalein solution turned pale (but noticable)
> >magenta for about 15 secs (as described at JtF) after 0.925ml. After
> >adding 1.05ml the colour got more intensive for longer time.
> >
> >My main question is - is it normal in case of cheap oils ?
> >I suppose they contain (as other oils) some amount of FFAs, but so much ?
> >
> >Additional matter is whether I got titration right. I mean, interpreting
> >the colours.
> >
> >I'm running out of ideas what could be wrong in the process, so any
> >help is appreciated.
> >
> >
> >--
> >cheers,
> >
> >  Rafal Szczesniak  **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl
> >  Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org
> >+-+
> >  *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba  http://www.samba.org
> >+-+
> >
> >
> >___
> >Biofuel mailing list
> >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> >
> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
> >messages):
> >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> >
>
> _
> Don't just search. Find. Che

Re: [Biofuel] Sweden how they do it

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Lugano et al.
As a Swedish native I can provide a more 
detailed and personal picture of the possibilities of oil independence of this 
country. There are a number of buts:
- The power companies are not allowed to 
increase the share of electricity coming from hydropower sources, because 
there is environmental, nature-protecting legislation. So, in order to 
become more independent of oil, we just have to trust that the 11 nuclear power 
plants running, will keep on to do so without serious accidents or other side 
effects.
- Biodiesel has never been a popular 
product within any administration in this country. This is probably because 
biodiesel production can be performed in small scale. The administrative 
favourite product, ethanol, is a typical large scale product, which complies 
more with the industrial traditions of this country. One can even suspect that 
there is an attitude proclaiming that it is bad enough letting the farmers be in 
control of the food production. Things would get even worse if the farmers were 
in control of the energy production as well.
- The petroleum supplies to this country 
have mainly been coming from the North Sea for a number of decades now, provided 
nominally by Norwegian and British companies. But the northernAtlantic 
production has already passed its peak, making changes necessary in order not to 
be totally depending upon oil from Russia and the middle east, which can be 
considered as a too adventurous project.
- The result of next election can very 
well over-throw the ambition of oil independence, since the right-liberal-centre 
coalition aiming for office, doesn´t have this target on the agenda. 

- The automotive industry, not only the 
Swedish, has to acknowledge and accept the goal. So far nothing along this line 
has been proclaimed from the industry. In such a small export-depending country 
as Sweden, the automotive industry  is very power-ful, and used to 
having its way.
Jan Warnqvist
+ 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lugano 
  Wilson 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 1:52 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sweden how they do 
  it
  
  Yes, 
   
  Sweden is well commited to renewabel energy as part of energy security 
  and environmental considerations. it is projected that in 2010 about 51% of of 
  its electricity will be produced from renewable sources. this is supported by 
  existing huge hydropower sources and strong commitment to bioenergy. renewable 
  electricity like bioenergy, wind, solar, etc. are currently growing in sharing 
  the supply scheme due to existing legislation on certification scheme.
   
  further to this, the transport sector has been targetted for increased 
  efficiency and utilization of renewable energy like ethanol and biodiesel 
  through taxation that based on annual vehicle pollution (emitted CO2) and not 
  the conventional taxation that based on either weight, size, utilization, 
  etc.
   
  the whole of this development is guided by strong policies that are 
  spearheading research, development and utilization. 
   
  follow the following links for: 
   
  1: electricity for renewable sources http://ec.europa.eu/energy/res/publications/index_en.htm 
   
  2: 
  green vehicles 
  http://www.gronabilister.se/public/dokument.php?art=272 
  
  have a nice week end. 
   
  Lugano
  Mark` Cookson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote:
  Hellow 
every one I was listening to the radio this afternoon here int the UK 
and a programme come on called Costing the Earth. Its subject was how 
Sweden are changing away from fossil fuels.I found it very 
interesting as you may.Follow the link here then go down the left of 
the page to [Listen to the latest programme link] hey 
presto!!!http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/costingtheearth.shtmlGood 
luckMark___Biofuel 
mailing 
listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel 
at Journey to 
Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the 
combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/..Division 
  of Energy and Furnace Technology,Department of Materials Science and 
  Engineering,Royal Institute of Technology (KTH),Brinellvägen 23,SE 
  100 44 Stockholm,Sweden.[EMAIL PROTECTED]Tel. 0046 8 205 
  204Fax: 0046 8 207 681..
  
  
  Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.rd.yahoo.com" claiming to be Great 
  rates starting at 1¢/min.
  
  

  ___Biofuel mailing 
  listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel 
  at Journey to

Re: [Biofuel] Sweden how they do it

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Lugano et al.
As a Swedish native I can provide a more 
detailed and personal picture of the possibilities of oil independence of this 
country. There are a number of buts:
- The power companies are not allowed to 
increase the share of electricity coming from hydropower sources, because 
there is environmental, nature-protecting legislation. So, in order to 
become more independent of oil, we just have to trust that the 11 nuclear power 
plants running, will keep on to do so without serious accidents or other side 
effects.
- Biodiesel has never been a popular 
product within any administration in this country. This is probably because 
biodiesel production can be performed in small scale. The administrative 
favourite product, ethanol, is a typical large scale product, which complies 
more with the industrial traditions of this country. One can even suspect that 
there is an attitude proclaiming that it is bad enough letting the farmers be in 
control of the food production. Things would get even worse if the farmers were 
in control of the energy production as well.
- The petroleum supplies to this country 
have mainly been coming from the North Sea for a number of decades now, provided 
nominally by Norwegian and British companies. But the northernAtlantic 
production has already passed its peak, making changes necessary in order not to 
be totally depending upon oil from Russia and the middle east, which can be 
considered as a too adventurous project.
- The result of next election can very 
well over-throw the ambition of oil independence, since the right-liberal-centre 
coalition aiming for office, doesn´t have this target on the agenda. 

- The automotive industry, not only the 
Swedish, has to acknowledge and accept the goal. So far nothing along this line 
has been proclaimed from the industry. In such a small export-depending country 
as Sweden, the automotive industry  is very power-ful, and used to 
having its way.
Jan Warnqvist
+ 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lugano 
  Wilson 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 1:52 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sweden how they do 
  it
  
  Yes, 
   
  Sweden is well commited to renewabel energy as part of energy security 
  and environmental considerations. it is projected that in 2010 about 51% of of 
  its electricity will be produced from renewable sources. this is supported by 
  existing huge hydropower sources and strong commitment to bioenergy. renewable 
  electricity like bioenergy, wind, solar, etc. are currently growing in sharing 
  the supply scheme due to existing legislation on certification scheme.
   
  further to this, the transport sector has been targetted for increased 
  efficiency and utilization of renewable energy like ethanol and biodiesel 
  through taxation that based on annual vehicle pollution (emitted CO2) and not 
  the conventional taxation that based on either weight, size, utilization, 
  etc.
   
  the whole of this development is guided by strong policies that are 
  spearheading research, development and utilization. 
   
  follow the following links for: 
   
  1: electricity for renewable sources http://ec.europa.eu/energy/res/publications/index_en.htm 
   
  2: 
  green vehicles 
  http://www.gronabilister.se/public/dokument.php?art=272 
  
  have a nice week end. 
   
  Lugano
  Mark` Cookson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote:
  Hellow 
every one I was listening to the radio this afternoon here int the UK 
and a programme come on called Costing the Earth. Its subject was how 
Sweden are changing away from fossil fuels.I found it very 
interesting as you may.Follow the link here then go down the left of 
the page to [Listen to the latest programme link] hey 
presto!!!http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/costingtheearth.shtmlGood 
luckMark___Biofuel 
mailing 
listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel 
at Journey to 
Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the 
combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/..Division 
  of Energy and Furnace Technology,Department of Materials Science and 
  Engineering,Royal Institute of Technology (KTH),Brinellvägen 23,SE 
  100 44 Stockholm,Sweden.[EMAIL PROTECTED]Tel. 0046 8 205 
  204Fax: 0046 8 207 681..
  
  
  Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.rd.yahoo.com" claiming to be Great 
  rates starting at 1¢/min.
  
  

  ___Biofuel mailing 
  listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel 
  at Journey to

Re: [Biofuel] The amazing properties of Vegtible oil

[Jan Warnqvist]

Yes,both Keith and David are right. Unless you are referring to palm oil,
which have an unusual fatty acid composition, the amount of glycerine in
most vegetable oils is roughly 10% by mass.
Jan Warnqvist
AGERATEC AB

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+ 46 554 201 89
+46 70 499 38 45
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The amazing properties of Vegtible oil


> >Is there a chemist amongst our ranks that can that can quantify % and
> >molar, how much glycerin is in 1 liter of soybean oil? tallow? canola?
> >Fish? (all virgin)Seems like spend time pondering questions like this of
> >late.  Any one know?
> >
> >Jim
>
> Hello Jim
>
> "The rule of thumb is 79 millilitres of glycerine for every litre of
> oil used (7.9%)."
> -- How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid?
> Make your own biodiesel - page 2: Journey to Forever
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#howmuchglyc
>
> More information here:
>
> How much methanol?
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_meth.html
>
> HTH.
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
>
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>
>


___
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Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future

[Jan Warnqvist]

ght have had the idea as student, but he had financing
> > for his development from the German coal industry. The contract
> > was to develop his engine to run on coal dust. That is why there
> > are always mentioning of coal dust, in conjunction with diesel.
> >
> > Kerrosene was at the time and today, used for lamps and heating.
> > It is also a quality of kerrosene used for dry cleaning.
> >
> > The quality of crude that are economical for gasoline, will end
> > before the crude suitable for fuel for diesel engine. If normal demand
> > principles are governing the situation, the price gap between
> > diesel and gasoline should widen in the future. It depends also
> > on the space heating demands, where heating oil (diesel) is
> > used for small buildings. Large buildings and Area centrals, use
> > heavy oil and it will last longer than diesel.
> >
> > When we are talking of oil depletion, it is a very rough estimation.
> > Certain oil products like gasoline are depleting faster than the
> > generally used numbers. Oil products and their depletion is
> > a much more complex situation.
> >
> > Hakan
> >
> >
> > At 08:34 09/06/2006, you wrote:
> > >Yes, I am able to amswer some questions concerning Rudolf Diesel.
> > >He had his idea to his engine when he was a student of the technical
> > >academy. Once he had a ready prototype ( which was tested with several
> > >fuels
> > >; gasoline, kerrosene and vegetable oils) he realized that he had to
>supply
> > >the fuel with the machine. So as a result of an agreement with Atlas
>Copco
> > >Diesel (member of the Wallenberg group) he had oil exploration rights 
> > >in
> > >Baku, near the Caspian Sea through an oil company with head office in 
> > >St
> > >Petersbrg Russia. This company was run by two relatives to Alfred 
> > >Nobel,
> > >the
> > >founder of the Nobel prize. The aim with this deal was to obtain large
>qtis
> > >of kerrosene, which was the main petroleum product by that time. But 
> > >then
> > >the Russian revelution came in 1917 and his rights were expropiated. 
> > >But
> > >the
> > >time that he had at his disposal was enough to establish kerrosene as 
> > >the
> > >main diesel fuel. The manufacturing rights of the diesel engine is now
> > >owned
> > >by Scania, which also is a member of the Wallenberg group.
> > >The question for Rudolf Diesel was not the fuel itself, it was to have
> > >access to diesel engine fuel, period.
> > >We are now running out of oil, but some really good alternatives are
>coming
> > >up in practice, don´t you think ?
> > >Jan Warnqvist
> > >- Original Message -
> > >From: "lres1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: 
> > >Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:49 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future
> > >
> > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > The oil engine was in use long before Rudolf Diesel. Bit of chicken 
> > > > or
> > > > egg.
> > > >
> > > > Did Rudolf  invent the fuel?
> > > > He certainly reduced the size of the oil engine principal to enable 
> > > > it
> > > > to
> > > > fit into land transport use from Sea and machine shop energy 
> > > > sources.
>I
> > > > have
> > > > been unable to locate any part where he actually invented the 
> > > > mineral
> > > > oil
> > > > known as Diesel oil. I can only find references to Peanut/vegetable
>oils
> > > > in
> > > > his early engines.
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone point me in the direction where he invented the Diesel 
> > > > oil?
> > > >
> > > > Prohibition was to stop home making of fuel or to stop alcoholic
>drinks
> > > > or
> > > > one was to cover the other? In history wood alcohol was included 
> > > > why?
> > > >
> > > > Henry Ford was a ruthless marketing and business man. (Read some of
> > > > Edzels
> > > > conflicts with his father before his early death). Fuel was sold in
> > > > cans.
> > > > How do you sell cars to people well away from fuel sources? Make 
> > > > them
> > > > able
> > > > to run on multi fuels, until Prohibition. The dates are about 
> > > > correct,
> > > > late
> > > > model "

Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future

[Jan Warnqvist]

ne. So as a result of an agreement with Atlas
Copco
> >Diesel (member of the Wallenberg group) he had oil exploration rights in
> >Baku, near the Caspian Sea through an oil company with head office in St
> >Petersbrg Russia. This company was run by two relatives to Alfred Nobel,
> >the
> >founder of the Nobel prize. The aim with this deal was to obtain large
qtis
> >of kerrosene, which was the main petroleum product by that time. But then
> >the Russian revelution came in 1917 and his rights were expropiated. But
> >the
> >time that he had at his disposal was enough to establish kerrosene as the
> >main diesel fuel. The manufacturing rights of the diesel engine is now
> >owned
> >by Scania, which also is a member of the Wallenberg group.
> >The question for Rudolf Diesel was not the fuel itself, it was to have
> >access to diesel engine fuel, period.
> >We are now running out of oil, but some really good alternatives are
coming
> >up in practice, don´t you think ?
> >Jan Warnqvist
> >- Original Message -
> >From: "lres1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: 
> >Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:49 AM
> >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future
> >
> >
> > > Mike
> > > The oil engine was in use long before Rudolf Diesel. Bit of chicken or
> > > egg.
> > >
> > > Did Rudolf  invent the fuel?
> > > He certainly reduced the size of the oil engine principal to enable it
> > > to
> > > fit into land transport use from Sea and machine shop energy sources.
I
> > > have
> > > been unable to locate any part where he actually invented the mineral
> > > oil
> > > known as Diesel oil. I can only find references to Peanut/vegetable
oils
> > > in
> > > his early engines.
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me in the direction where he invented the Diesel oil?
> > >
> > > Prohibition was to stop home making of fuel or to stop alcoholic
drinks
> > > or
> > > one was to cover the other? In history wood alcohol was included why?
> > >
> > > Henry Ford was a ruthless marketing and business man. (Read some of
> > > Edzels
> > > conflicts with his father before his early death). Fuel was sold in
> > > cans.
> > > How do you sell cars to people well away from fuel sources? Make them
> > > able
> > > to run on multi fuels, until Prohibition. The dates are about correct,
> > > late
> > > model "T" and early model "A", "AA" and "AAA". Note the model "AAA"
> > > (Triple
> > > A) was still run on ethanol as was not outlawed as far as my trips and
> > > research shows.
> > >
> > > The globe was already controlled by the oil industry. Sloan, the most
> > > powerfull man at the time, could not perhaps change this or was in
> > > agreement
> > > with the oil industry.
> > >
> > >> *   Rudolf Diesel, the inventor of the diesel engine, designed it
> > >> to
> > >>   run on vegetable and seed oils like hemp. In fact, when the
> > >> diesel
> > >>   engine was first introduced at the World's Fair in 1900, it ran
> > >> on
> > >>   peanut oil.
> > >> * Two decades later, Henry Ford was designing his Model Ts to run
> > >> on
> > >>   ethanol made from hemp. He envisioned the entire mass-produced
> > >>   Model T automobile line would run on ethanol derived from crops
> > >>   grown in the U.S.
> > >> * Even in the 1920s, the oil industry had massive lobbying power
in
> > >>   Washington. Lobbyists convinced policymakers to create laws
> > >>   favoring petroleum based fuels while disgarding the ethanol
> > >> option.
> > >> * Nearly a century later, amidst oil wars in the Middle East,
> > >> Global
> > >>   Warming, and a nearly depleted oil supply, the U.S. government
is
> > >>   finally shifting attention to fuels that are more along the
lines
> > >>   of Diesel and Ford's original ideas.
> > >> * In an interview with the New York Times in 1925, Henry Ford
said:
> > >>   "The fuel of the future is going to come from fruit like that
> > >>   sumac out by the road, or from apples, weeds, sawdust -- almost
> > >>   anything. There is fuel in every bit of vegetable matter that
can
> > >>   be fermented. 

Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future

[Jan Warnqvist]

No I do not have a connection to Atlas Copco, but I know a little something 
about Rudolf Diesel.
Jan
- Original Message - 
From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future



Jan,

I did work with Atlas Copco as consultant in acoustics, when they developed
the "silent compressors". At the time I was employed by Stellan Dahlstedt,
Akustik Konsult AB. It was very interesting insights in both diesel and
compressor technology.  The person in charge of their acoustic lab. was an
ex. employee in Akustik Konsult. I tell you this, because you obviously have
a connection to them. It was around 40 years ago and I moved out of Sweden
almost 30 years ago, to work full time with CAD/CAM and network products.

The final line of compressors became trend setters in the market and a large
success.

Håkan


At 11:06 09/06/2006, you wrote:
>Håkan, it is obvious that no patent or manufacturing lisence will last for
>one houndrad years, espcecially considering the development of the diesel
>engine. But Scania is the inheritar of the original diesel engine. However,
>it is not flattering for us Swedes to be so historically involved and
>possibly even having promoted the petroleum substitute for the diesel
>engine. Particulary not, since there is a common imagnination that the
>discovery of petroleum made it possible for the combustion engine to arise,
>because of the unique properties of petroleum.
>Jan
>- Original Message -
>From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 9:37 AM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future
>
>
>
>Jan,
>
>Manufacturing rights as a whole to the diesel engine cannot be
>owned by Scania, only certain modifications that are done the
>last 25 years. It is no legal way, that I know of, to protect the
>original diesel engine for 100 years. The only legal way to protect
>manufacturing rights, is through patents and even they are not
>protected in certain countries. Patents are only valid for 25 years
>and the normal way is to patent modifications/enhancements to
>the original patent to prolong the patent protection of the most
>competitive product.
>
>Diesel might have had the idea as student, but he had financing
>for his development from the German coal industry. The contract
>was to develop his engine to run on coal dust. That is why there
>are always mentioning of coal dust, in conjunction with diesel.
>
>Kerrosene was at the time and today, used for lamps and heating.
>It is also a quality of kerrosene used for dry cleaning.
>
>The quality of crude that are economical for gasoline, will end
>before the crude suitable for fuel for diesel engine. If normal demand
>principles are governing the situation, the price gap between
>diesel and gasoline should widen in the future. It depends also
>on the space heating demands, where heating oil (diesel) is
>used for small buildings. Large buildings and Area centrals, use
>heavy oil and it will last longer than diesel.
>
>When we are talking of oil depletion, it is a very rough estimation.
>Certain oil products like gasoline are depleting faster than the
>generally used numbers. Oil products and their depletion is
>a much more complex situation.
>
>Hakan
>
>
>At 08:34 09/06/2006, you wrote:
> >Yes, I am able to amswer some questions concerning Rudolf Diesel.
> >He had his idea to his engine when he was a student of the technical
> >academy. Once he had a ready prototype ( which was tested with several
> >fuels
> >; gasoline, kerrosene and vegetable oils) he realized that he had to 
> >supply
> >the fuel with the machine. So as a result of an agreement with Atlas 
> >Copco
> >Diesel (member of the Wallenberg group) he had oil exploration rights in
> >Baku, near the Caspian Sea through an oil company with head office in St
> >Petersbrg Russia. This company was run by two relatives to Alfred Nobel,
> >the
> >founder of the Nobel prize. The aim with this deal was to obtain large 
> >qtis
> >of kerrosene, which was the main petroleum product by that time. But then
> >the Russian revelution came in 1917 and his rights were expropiated. But
> >the
> >time that he had at his disposal was enough to establish kerrosene as the
> >main diesel fuel. The manufacturing rights of the diesel engine is now
> >owned
> >by Scania, which also is a member of the Wallenberg group.
> >The question for Rudolf Diesel was not the fuel itself, it was to have
> >access to diesel engine fuel, period.
> >We are now running out of oil, but some really good alternatives are 
> >coming
> >up in practice, don´t you think ?
&

Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future

[Jan Warnqvist]

Håkan, it is obvious that no patent or manufacturing lisence will last for 
one houndrad years, espcecially considering the development of the diesel 
engine. But Scania is the inheritar of the original diesel engine. However, 
it is not flattering for us Swedes to be so historically involved and 
possibly even having promoted the petroleum substitute for the diesel 
engine. Particulary not, since there is a common imagnination that the 
discovery of petroleum made it possible for the combustion engine to arise, 
because of the unique properties of petroleum.
Jan
- Original Message - 
From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future



Jan,

Manufacturing rights as a whole to the diesel engine cannot be
owned by Scania, only certain modifications that are done the
last 25 years. It is no legal way, that I know of, to protect the
original diesel engine for 100 years. The only legal way to protect
manufacturing rights, is through patents and even they are not
protected in certain countries. Patents are only valid for 25 years
and the normal way is to patent modifications/enhancements to
the original patent to prolong the patent protection of the most
competitive product.

Diesel might have had the idea as student, but he had financing
for his development from the German coal industry. The contract
was to develop his engine to run on coal dust. That is why there
are always mentioning of coal dust, in conjunction with diesel.

Kerrosene was at the time and today, used for lamps and heating.
It is also a quality of kerrosene used for dry cleaning.

The quality of crude that are economical for gasoline, will end
before the crude suitable for fuel for diesel engine. If normal demand
principles are governing the situation, the price gap between
diesel and gasoline should widen in the future. It depends also
on the space heating demands, where heating oil (diesel) is
used for small buildings. Large buildings and Area centrals, use
heavy oil and it will last longer than diesel.

When we are talking of oil depletion, it is a very rough estimation.
Certain oil products like gasoline are depleting faster than the
generally used numbers. Oil products and their depletion is
a much more complex situation.

Hakan


At 08:34 09/06/2006, you wrote:
>Yes, I am able to amswer some questions concerning Rudolf Diesel.
>He had his idea to his engine when he was a student of the technical
>academy. Once he had a ready prototype ( which was tested with several 
>fuels
>; gasoline, kerrosene and vegetable oils) he realized that he had to supply
>the fuel with the machine. So as a result of an agreement with Atlas Copco
>Diesel (member of the Wallenberg group) he had oil exploration rights in
>Baku, near the Caspian Sea through an oil company with head office in St
>Petersbrg Russia. This company was run by two relatives to Alfred Nobel, 
>the
>founder of the Nobel prize. The aim with this deal was to obtain large qtis
>of kerrosene, which was the main petroleum product by that time. But then
>the Russian revelution came in 1917 and his rights were expropiated. But 
>the
>time that he had at his disposal was enough to establish kerrosene as the
>main diesel fuel. The manufacturing rights of the diesel engine is now 
>owned
>by Scania, which also is a member of the Wallenberg group.
>The question for Rudolf Diesel was not the fuel itself, it was to have
>access to diesel engine fuel, period.
>We are now running out of oil, but some really good alternatives are coming
>up in practice, don´t you think ?
>Jan Warnqvist
>- Original Message -
>From: "lres1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:49 AM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future
>
>
> > Mike
> > The oil engine was in use long before Rudolf Diesel. Bit of chicken or
> > egg.
> >
> > Did Rudolf  invent the fuel?
> > He certainly reduced the size of the oil engine principal to enable it 
> > to
> > fit into land transport use from Sea and machine shop energy sources. I
> > have
> > been unable to locate any part where he actually invented the mineral 
> > oil
> > known as Diesel oil. I can only find references to Peanut/vegetable oils
> > in
> > his early engines.
> >
> > Can anyone point me in the direction where he invented the Diesel oil?
> >
> > Prohibition was to stop home making of fuel or to stop alcoholic drinks 
> > or
> > one was to cover the other? In history wood alcohol was included why?
> >
> > Henry Ford was a ruthless marketing and business man. (Read some of 
> > Edzels
> > conflicts with his father before his early death). Fuel was sold in 
> > cans.
> > How do you sell cars to 

Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future

[Jan Warnqvist]

Yes, I am able to amswer some questions concerning Rudolf Diesel.
He had his idea to his engine when he was a student of the technical 
academy. Once he had a ready prototype ( which was tested with several fuels 
; gasoline, kerrosene and vegetable oils) he realized that he had to supply 
the fuel with the machine. So as a result of an agreement with Atlas Copco 
Diesel (member of the Wallenberg group) he had oil exploration rights in 
Baku, near the Caspian Sea through an oil company with head office in St 
Petersbrg Russia. This company was run by two relatives to Alfred Nobel, the 
founder of the Nobel prize. The aim with this deal was to obtain large qtis 
of kerrosene, which was the main petroleum product by that time. But then 
the Russian revelution came in 1917 and his rights were expropiated. But the 
time that he had at his disposal was enough to establish kerrosene as the 
main diesel fuel. The manufacturing rights of the diesel engine is now owned 
by Scania, which also is a member of the Wallenberg group.
The question for Rudolf Diesel was not the fuel itself, it was to have 
access to diesel engine fuel, period.
We are now running out of oil, but some really good alternatives are coming 
up in practice, don´t you think ?
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "lres1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future


> Mike
> The oil engine was in use long before Rudolf Diesel. Bit of chicken or 
> egg.
>
> Did Rudolf  invent the fuel?
> He certainly reduced the size of the oil engine principal to enable it to
> fit into land transport use from Sea and machine shop energy sources. I 
> have
> been unable to locate any part where he actually invented the mineral oil
> known as Diesel oil. I can only find references to Peanut/vegetable oils 
> in
> his early engines.
>
> Can anyone point me in the direction where he invented the Diesel oil?
>
> Prohibition was to stop home making of fuel or to stop alcoholic drinks or
> one was to cover the other? In history wood alcohol was included why?
>
> Henry Ford was a ruthless marketing and business man. (Read some of Edzels
> conflicts with his father before his early death). Fuel was sold in cans.
> How do you sell cars to people well away from fuel sources? Make them able
> to run on multi fuels, until Prohibition. The dates are about correct, 
> late
> model "T" and early model "A", "AA" and "AAA". Note the model "AAA" 
> (Triple
> A) was still run on ethanol as was not outlawed as far as my trips and
> research shows.
>
> The globe was already controlled by the oil industry. Sloan, the most
> powerfull man at the time, could not perhaps change this or was in 
> agreement
> with the oil industry.
>
>> *   Rudolf Diesel, the inventor of the diesel engine, designed it to
>>   run on vegetable and seed oils like hemp. In fact, when the diesel
>>   engine was first introduced at the World's Fair in 1900, it ran on
>>   peanut oil.
>> * Two decades later, Henry Ford was designing his Model Ts to run on
>>   ethanol made from hemp. He envisioned the entire mass-produced
>>   Model T automobile line would run on ethanol derived from crops
>>   grown in the U.S.
>> * Even in the 1920s, the oil industry had massive lobbying power in
>>   Washington. Lobbyists convinced policymakers to create laws
>>   favoring petroleum based fuels while disgarding the ethanol option.
>> * Nearly a century later, amidst oil wars in the Middle East, Global
>>   Warming, and a nearly depleted oil supply, the U.S. government is
>>   finally shifting attention to fuels that are more along the lines
>>   of Diesel and Ford's original ideas.
>> * In an interview with the New York Times in 1925, Henry Ford said:
>>   "The fuel of the future is going to come from fruit like that
>>   sumac out by the road, or from apples, weeds, sawdust -- almost
>>   anything. There is fuel in every bit of vegetable matter that can
>>   be fermented. There's enough alcohol in one year's yield of an
>>   acre of potatoes to drive the machinery necessary to cultivate the
>>   fields for a hundred years."
>>
>> Whose water is it? *Learn more:*
>> http://www.organicconsumers.org/2006/article_658.cfm
>>
> <http://alerts.organicconsumers.org/trk/click?ref=zqtbkk3um_0-ax332x3239551&;
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol for diesel engines

[Jan Warnqvist]

Just wanting to make some remarks 
.
The Scania ethanol buses are running 
on a special ethanol quality blend consisting from ethanol (95%), a cetane 
improver called Bereid, which I am told is a polyglycol, and a lubricant. The 
injection timing is normal (approx 20 degrees before TDC) and all engines are 
equipped with intercooler which functions as an air heater when the engine runs 
on idle. Ethanol is not self-evident as a diesel fuel, but progress has been 
done.
Jan Warnqvist

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  FRANCISCO 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 4:25 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol for diesel 
  engines
  HiEthanol is close to gasoline when referring to fueling 
  energy to an engine. Therefore cetane number is low even though ethanol 
  prefers higher pressure than regular gasoline. So ethanol diesel blend to be 
  viable as fuel and easy the blending has to have two supports: cetane improver 
  additive to easy combustion and a electronic/software combination which can 
  adjust ignition timing and pumpin all the time. ( Please remember atomiztion 
  is diferent also!) In order to reduce the amount of additive  ( very 
  expensive and it is like TNT - worsening stability) I assume they use some 
  diesel so it helps ignition (Please note)  This reminds me the natural 
  gas/diesel dual fuel engine where the diesel is used as the spark plug and the 
  electronics do the rest. Please remember when we have two types of fuel two 
  explosions will always happen and in the case of the diesel/cetane 
  improver/alcohol we might have three explosions and this is not good for the 
  engine so in the long run efficiency is jeopardize severely.Hakan you are 
  right: The cetane improver experiences with alcohol have been done a long time 
  by Scania and in fact they tried to introduce this technology in Brasil. It is 
  not used because it was considered too expensive. The consumption should 
  be much higher than the 100% diesel ( energy content per mass and volume 
  admission in the combustion chamber ) and considering the new refining 
  technologies the  emissions of the new blend should not be better. We 
  still do not know the effect of aldehyde on the environment a please pay 
  attention nitrates generates NOx thru exhaust pipe and aldehyde and NOx are 
  always there when using alcohol. Also diesel engines do operate at higher 
  temperatures and this can affect exhaust gases worsening emissions 
  environmentally speaking.In my opinion we have to scrutinize this approach 
  thouruglly and this approach it is not novel. I love ppo svo and 
  biodiesel.very best fo rall of usChicHakan Falk wrote: 
  Keith,

If I remembered right, the Swedish diesel buses are running on a wood 
alcohol mix, with some sort of additive. In Sweden it is now more and 
more common that the buses use biofuel.

Hakan


At 18:47 07/06/2006, you wrote:
  
Hi Tomas


  Hi,

this one fuel combination is interesting.
I've never heard about such possibility before:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/06/xcelplus_acquir.html

--
Tomas Juknevicius
  Fuel-Cycle Energy and Emission Impacts of Ethanol-Diesel Blends in
Urban Buses and Farming Tractors, (July 2003, 992kb pdf)
http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/280.pdf

The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel
by S.W. Mathewson
Chapter 3 UTILIZATION OF ALCOHOL FUELS
Diesel Engines
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual3.html

Best

Keith


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Searc

Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel from wood

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Steve et al,
if  my memory isn¨t fooling me, is there a fatty acid fraction in tall oil. 
The composition of this reminds very much of that of soy bean oil. But it 
takes a lot of distilling and fractionizing to get this fatty acid fraction 
clean enough. Wood is more suitable for ethanol production I think.
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message - 
From: "Steve Knox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel from wood


I believe that there is a company in Germany (CHOREN) who makes biodiesel
from wood. If my memory is correct, they're getting about 60 or so gallons
per ton. A major oil company has bought an interest in the company.

Steve
- Original Message - 
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel from wood


Using wood as feedstock means using either lignin or cellulose, right?
 If so, alot of stuff could be made into biodiesel -- grass, weeds,
cardboard, etc...  Thermo catalytic cracking is the only thing I can
think of that could do this.  Unless they have some fancy microbes
that can digest lignin and give oil?

I also remember that in WWII germany was trying to distill gasoline
substitutes from pine trees -- I thought this was more like turpentine
though, derived more from the sap than the wood?   I'm not an expert
on this by any means, but perhaps someone else remembers exactly what
they were doing.

Zeke

On 6/1/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone heard of such a thing? It says "Wood-based biodiesel
> production requires the development of new technology." Are they on to
> something or are they still working out if this is even possible?
>
> Steve
>
> http://snipurl.com/r8b3
>
> (2006-05-26) Hydro and Norske Skog have agreed to carry out a joint
> feasibility study relating to the production of biodiesel from wood.
> The intention is to identify the feasibility of establishing a
> biodiesel production facility in south-east Norway. Such a plant could
> come on stream by 2012 at the earliest.
>
> "We consider ourselves to be natural partners as far as wood-based
> biodiesel is concerned. Hydro has wide experience derived from the
> construction and operation of major processing plants and from the
> quest to find new forms of energy. Norske Skog has considerable
> expertise when it comes to wood purchasing and treating wood pulp," say
> senior vice president Alexandra Bech Gjørv of Hydro and vice president
> Terje Engevik of Norske Skog.
>
> A technically superior product
>
> The production of biodiesel is currently based on rapeseed or other
> oil-based raw materials. Wood-based biodiesel production requires the
> development of new technology. Once this technology is in place, it
> will be possible to offer an even better product than today?s biodiesel.
>
> "Today only a five-percent biodiesel tank mixture is available.
> Wood-based biodiesel will give us a technically superior product
> without such limitations. By using timber we can also utilize a much
> greater proportion of the raw material and considerably reduce
> greenhouse gas emissions compared with biodiesel produced from rapeseed
> or other plant oils. This means that wood-based biodiesel will be a an
> even more environmentally friendly fuel than today?s biodiesel," the
> two companies say in a press release.
>
> NEW ENERGY: Alexandra Bech Gjørv is responsible for Hydro's efforts to
> develop renewable energy. (Photo: Kåre Foss)
>
>
> Long road to completion
>
> The road to completion of a possible production plant is, however, a
> long one. To begin with, collaboration between the two companies
> involves a feasibility study that will primarily provide an overview of
> the technologies available in the market, identify the availability of
> raw materials, and create a realistic picture of the external governing
> conditions that must be in place in order to reach an investment
> decision.
>
> "CO2 emissions represent a climate threat that affects all of us, and
> we can see that the political will exists to promote biodiesel as an
> environmentally friendly alternative to regular fuels. There is great
> potential for biodiesel in the market of the future, but if this market
> is going to materialize we are in need of a sound, long-term operating
> framework from the authorities," state Bech Gjørv and Engevik.
>
>
> Author: Lars Nermoen
> Published: 2006-05-26
>
>
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> Biofuel at Journe

[Biofuel] American diesels

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello everybody in the Americas! I 
have one question for you concerning BD and the cars consuming it. It seems as 
if you all are prefering European cars for fueling BD instead of American 
diesels. Is that true, and in this case why? Arn´t GM:s diesels good for BD 
?
 
Jan 
Warnqvist
BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
N:Warnqvist;Jan
FN:Jan Warnqvist
ORG:AGERATEC AB
TEL;WORK;VOICE:+46 11 33 53 70
TEL;CELL;VOICE:+46 70 4993845
URL;WORK:http://www.ageratec.com
EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
REV:20060518T194543Z
END:VCARD
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Re: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Jason and Kate,
the reason for this is simple. The castor oil (unlike most other vegetable
oils) is ethanol soluble. This means that most other oils will not do the
trick.
With best regards
Jan Warnqvist
AGERATEC AB

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+ 46 554 201 89
+46 70 499 38 45
- Original Message - 
From: "Jason & Katie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 6:31 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol


> i pulled a paper from the library describing separating ethanol from water
> using castor oil. can this be done using any kind of oil, or are their
> certain characteristics of the oil not described in the paper?
>
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/eth_separate.html
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Zeke et al.
A very unscientific trial feeding sugar into the air intake(without air
filter) suggested that sugar does not harm the engine at all, just
combusting together with tha gasoline. According to this experiment, the
melting points and boiling points of the sugar (sackarose) are rather close.
Jan
AGERATEC AB
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message -
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO


> What exactly would sugar do to an engine?  The worst I can think of is
> clogging some filters or increasing carbon deposits.
>
> Zeke
>
> On 3/22/06, Bob Carr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Nor sure about lard, but watch out for sugar in your feedstock. This is
an
> > old favourite additive for sabotaging an engine.
> > Reg'ds
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: ROY Washbish
> > To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO
> >
> >
> > Hi All
> > Don't donut shops use LARD that is SOLID at room temp?
> > Isn't that lard full of sugar?
> > Roy
> >
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > as i am just starting myself, i am thinking towards donut shops. they
> > usually fry no meats in their veg oil and would have less fats.
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >  Yahoo! Mail
> > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
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Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Tom, 
if your titration value is 1,9 , there is 
no need for additional treatment, since the acidic ions from the vinegar will be 
included in the titration value. However, you should determine the water 
content of the oil before processing it. A good value here is max 0,5%. 

Yes, you are right, the oxonium ions from 
the vinegar will produce water when neutralized and the complete reaction will 
be the following :
H3O+ 
+ Ac- + Na+ + OH- → 2 H2O + 
Na+ Ac-
but 
NaOH in methanol and in oil with some vinegar the following reaction takes 
place:

Na+ + MeO - + H3O 
+ Ac-  + H2O → 
MeOH + Na+ Ac- + 2 H2O
This means that instead of one extra water 
molecule you will produce one molecule of methanol, since sodium hydroxide will 
form sodium methoxide and water in methanol.
It is of some comfort, isn´t it ?
Best of luck to you !
Jan
Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
+ 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Thomas 
  Kelly 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 7:21 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in 
  WVO
  
  Zeke, Mark and Doug,
     Thanks for 
  your thoughts. The oil comes from a nice restaurant. Some of their 
  appetizers are deep fried and could contribute acid to the oil. I just 
  spoke to one of the kitchen staff. He said they scrub the fryers w. 
  vinegar and it goes, along w. the oil, into the grease dumpster. I 
  suspect most of the vinegar settles out w. the water.
   I am interested in 
  the role these water-soluble acids might play in the reaction and the 
  byproducts made. 
   Since they are not fatty 
  acids, they should not produce soap themselves, but won't lye + vinegar 
  (acetic acid) produce sodium acetate and water?
   Should I try to 
  neutralize the vinegar before drying the oil? Should I go to the 
  trouble of washing the oil and allowing it to settle for a few weeks before 
  drying it?
   It is good oil and there 
  is a lot of it. Washed w. water, settled overnight, then  dried, it 
  titrates at 1.9g/L .
   Thanks 
  again,
    
  Tom
  - Original Message - 
  
From: 
Doug 
Turner 
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 

Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 11:58 
AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in 
WVO

Hi Tom,
 
    Some restaurants will use a 
vinegar rinse after cleaning their fryer equipment.  The intent is to 
extend the useful oil lifespan by neutralizing any bases (from the soaps) 
that may remain after cleaning.  They should do a final water rise but 
many do not.  This could be the source of your acid.
 
    Doug Turner
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Thomas 
  Kelly 
  To: biofuel 
  Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:56 
  AM
  Subject: [Biofuel] Vinegar in 
  WVO
  
  Good day to all,
   I have 
  a new source of WVO. It is very clear and light in color. I did a 
  titration w/o drying it. I was surprised to find that it required 3.2ml of 
  .1% lye to neutralize each ml of oil. 
  We heated a sample of the oil and 
  some water fell out. The dry oil titrated at 2.6ml of the lye 
  solution. I shake-washed some of the oil in water and then dried the oil 
   titration required only 2.3ml of the lye 
  solution. The wash water was ever so 
  slightly acid. There seems to be water soluble 
  acid(s) in this oil.
   While heating the 
  oil, a friend commented on the smell. My wife came home and asked if we 
  were using vinegar. 
  Here's the questions:
      1. Do restaurants either 
  fry foods with vinegar in/on them?
  Do acids from frying cheeses (mozarella 
  sticks) leach into the oil? Do restaurants clean their grills/friers 
  w. vinegar?
   2. Am I correct in 
  assuming that these mysterious water-soluble acids will be 
  neutralized by the lye and will not contribute to soap 
  formation?
   
    
  Thanks for listening,
   
  Tom
  
  

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Re: [Biofuel] KOH carbonated

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Jim,
if you knew the level of carbonation, it would be much simpler. If you treat
this KOH as ordinary KOH, you will have a buffer solution in water or
methanol. this buffer will not be as effective as you are used to. I suggest
that you try a mini-batch and adjust the input of your new KOH according to
that. Good luck !

Jan Warnqvist
AGERATEC AB

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+ 46 554 201 89
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- Original Message - 
From: "JJJN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "BIO" 
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:07 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] KOH carbonated


> Hello everyone,
>
> I just got 50 #s of KOH for next to nothing. It is in flake form but it
> is carbonated to some extent (unkown).  I have some lab grade KOH that
> is near absolute also.
>
> Can anyone give me a complete procedure to make a comparison (Strength
> %) of one to the other?  I want to know because if the one is 10% weaker
> than the other then I should be able to increase the weaker by 10% to
> achieve similar results.  I understand that from this point I must still
> tweek some one way or the other.
>
> Perhaps my thinking is flawed in assuming the relationship is
> proportional and  I should just  use better  KOH?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Jim
>
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Re: [Biofuel] pH question

[Jan Warnqvist]

I have already been critizised for 
leaving out the sub-understood meaning that the determinations should be carried 
out in a water phase, since the H30 and OH ions are not detectable any where 
else.
Jan

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  A. Secco 
  
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 4:15 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] pH question
  
  Dear Jan,
  If I understand correctly something can be 
  wrong with the pH measurements which Andrew made and 
  reported.
  The pH can only be measured in an aqueous system 
  and not in an oil/fatty phase. It has no sense to put the probe in the oil 
  phase to measure pH. Remember that pH only applies were the water equilibrium 
  constant works.
  Instead of measuring through an pH electrode it 
  is more convenient and accurate to measure the total acidity of the oil 
  phase which is made throug a titration with NaOH and reported as "acid 
  value"
   
  Andres Secco
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Jan Warnqvist 
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 

Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:30 
AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] pH 
question

Hello Andrew,
not to worry, that pH value is 
quite in order. When you judge the result of a correctly performed pH 
determination, you should be aware of that the pH scale is logaritmic. 
Example:
pH 7 means that the amounts of 
H3O( acidic) and OH (hydroxide)ions are the same amounts, that is 10 
powered by - 7 moles per dm3 = 0,001 moles/dm3.
If you have pH 6, this means that 
the H3O ions are ten times more than the OH ions, H3O= 10 powered by -6 
moles/dm3 = 0,01, and the OH ions are 10 powered by -8 moles/dm3 = 
0,0001 moles/dm3.For pH 2 you have a concentration for the H3O ions of 
10 powered by -2 = 0.01 moles/dm3 and the corresponding value for OH is 10 
powered by -12 = 0,0001 moles/dm3. This means that if a pH 
determination drops from pH 1 to pH 2, much more has actually happend than a 
drop from pH 6 to pH 7.
The reason for pH 6 on biodiesel 
could be that there is a content of free fatty acids or other acidic remains 
in the biodiesel. Is this right, Bob ?
     
Jan Warnqvist

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Andrew 
  Leven 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:09 
  AM
  Subject: [Biofuel] pH question
  
  Hello,
  I've made and washed 4 test 
  batches  from different wvo oil sources and have come up 
  with some quite clear, light amber colored BD but it all seems to test out 
  at pH 6 + or -. This seems a bit low. Any ideas about what would cause a 
  consistent low reading like this?
  Andrew Leven
  
  

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Re: [Biofuel] pH question

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Andrew,
not to worry, that pH value is quite 
in order. When you judge the result of a correctly performed pH determination, 
you should be aware of that the pH scale is logaritmic. Example:
pH 7 means that the amounts of H3O( 
acidic) and OH (hydroxide)ions are the same amounts, that is 10 powered by 
- 7 moles per dm3 = 0,001 moles/dm3.
If you have pH 6, this means that the 
H3O ions are ten times more than the OH ions, H3O= 10 powered by -6 moles/dm3 = 
0,01, and the OH ions are 10 powered by -8 moles/dm3 = 0,0001 
moles/dm3.For pH 2 you have a concentration for the H3O ions of 10 powered by -2 
= 0.01 moles/dm3 and the corresponding value for OH is 10 powered by -12 = 
0,0001 moles/dm3. This means that if a pH determination drops 
from pH 1 to pH 2, much more has actually happend than a drop from pH 6 to pH 
7.
The reason for pH 6 on biodiesel 
could be that there is a content of free fatty acids or other acidic remains in 
the biodiesel. Is this right, Bob ?
 
Jan Warnqvist

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Andrew Leven 
  
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:09 
  AM
  Subject: [Biofuel] pH question
  
  Hello,
  I've made and washed 4 test batches  
  from different wvo oil sources and have come up with some quite 
  clear, light amber colored BD but it all seems to test out at pH 6 + or -. 
  This seems a bit low. Any ideas about what would cause a consistent low 
  reading like this?
  Andrew Leven
  
  

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Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Bob,
yes, you are right, recovered ethanol will likely contain > 500 ppm of
water. This ethanol can then possibly only be used in small portions for
forward production of ethyl esters. It is however important to find out the
purity of the recovered ethanol before any conclusions can be drawn. It is
also likely that a big part of the water content of the biodiesel will enter
the most polar phase (glycerol phase), which may make it possible to re-use
the ethanol.
It does not sound too thrilling to use E85 as an ethanol source. There are a
number of research projects that have used gasoline-contaning ethanol, and
this with production difficulties from time to time. Assuming that biodiesel
from E85 is produced, the actual gasoline content would be max 15% of the
esterified ethanol ,about 15% of 13-14% which makes max 2,1% in total
gasoline content in the biodiesel. This amount will not influence the
viscosity, nor the density severly. It is doubtful that it will effect the
cetane number or the material compability properties more than marginally.
However, if the ethanol is recovered, it is highly likeky to assume that
some of the gasoline will enter this phase instead of staying in the
biodiesel. The BD may still have an odour of gasoline though.

AGERATEC AB
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message -
From: "bob allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method


Jan, Wouldn't you expect that > 500 ppm water would be picked up in any
recovered ethanol, due to even a small amount of soap production?  also
if the ethanol used is for automobile use, is it an  E-85 blend, ie, 15%
gasoline?  If so I would think that the gasoline would partition into
any biodiesel made from this alcohol source.  How would the gasoline
impact the biodiesel?

Jan Warnqvist wrote:
> Hello Bias Antonio,
> Ken is right, the NaOH dissolves a lot quicker in ethanol if heated. In
> order to make ethyl esters the quality of the reactants has to be high:
> ethanol min 99,5% pure and
> oil with a water content < 500 ppm and
> a stochiometric surplus of ethanol of at least 75% and why not 100% ?
> The economy of this is depending upon your possibilities of recover the
> excess ethanol.
> Good luck to you
> AGERATEC AB
> Jan Warnqvist
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ken Provost" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method
>
>
>> On Jan 25, 2006, at 11:00 AM, Blas Antonio Guanes wrote:
>>
>>
>>>  the problem is that, methanol costs 4 $ and pure ethanol
>>> for car costs 0.52 $, NaOH is gotten in any part.. KOH is
>>> sold in bags of 25  kilos for soap industry.. Here in Paragua
>>> it is difficult to get chemical products. for that reason I want
>>> know how I can make with oil, ethanol and NaOH
>>
>> Have you tried dissolving NaOH in pure anhydrous ethanol? It is
>> difficult. If you can dissolve the required amount (perhaps by
>> boiling the ethanol/NaOH mixture under reflux), you could possibly
>> make biodiesel out of very clean dry oil. If you only use 3.5g NaOH
>> per liter of oil, or if your ethanol or oil contain any water, you will
>> probably never achieve separation of a glycerine phase. All your
>> ingredients go into a clear solution, and just stay that way forever.
>> Until glycerine separates, you don't have biodiesel.
>>
>> -K
>>
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>>
>
>
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from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Bias Antonio,
Ken is right, the NaOH dissolves a lot quicker in ethanol if heated. In
order to make ethyl esters the quality of the reactants has to be high:
ethanol min 99,5% pure and
oil with a water content < 500 ppm and
a stochiometric surplus of ethanol of at least 75% and why not 100% ?
The economy of this is depending upon your possibilities of recover the
excess ethanol.
Good luck to you
AGERATEC AB
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message -
From: "Ken Provost" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method


>
> On Jan 25, 2006, at 11:00 AM, Blas Antonio Guanes wrote:
>
>
> >  the problem is that, methanol costs 4 $ and pure ethanol
> > for car costs 0.52 $, NaOH is gotten in any part.. KOH is
> > sold in bags of 25  kilos for soap industry.. Here in Paragua
> > it is difficult to get chemical products. for that reason I want
> > know how I can make with oil, ethanol and NaOH
>
>
> Have you tried dissolving NaOH in pure anhydrous ethanol? It is
> difficult. If you can dissolve the required amount (perhaps by
> boiling the ethanol/NaOH mixture under reflux), you could possibly
> make biodiesel out of very clean dry oil. If you only use 3.5g NaOH
> per liter of oil, or if your ethanol or oil contain any water, you will
> probably never achieve separation of a glycerine phase. All your
> ingredients go into a clear solution, and just stay that way forever.
> Until glycerine separates, you don't have biodiesel.
>
> -K
>
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Re: [Biofuel] unheated oil for biodiesel?

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Kenji,
heating the oil means that you are adding energy to the coming reaction. The
reaction will go faster and become more complete than if you didn´t heat the
oil. Trans-esterifucation processes can often take place in temperatures
around 20oC and above.
The glycerol settling will also go smoother and faster with a little
temperature on it, say around 40 - 50ioC.
Good luck to you
AGERATEC AB
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message -
From: "Kenji James Fuse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:14 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] unheated oil for biodiesel?


> I've never tried making biodiesel without heating the oil, except in
> little demo batches (2 litre pop bottle). How necessary is it, and can
> anyone describe the chemistry or physics of it to me in dumb-dumb terms?
>
> Or maybe its in the archives, and someone could point me in the right
> direction.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kenji Fuse
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Jan's Methanol test

[Jan Warnqvist]

ottom on the tube after settling)>> So my 
question once again is who else uses this test and how is it > going 
for you?  Does anyone get a perfect result (no fallout) 
from> this test?  And finally should I be concerned by a 
couple of percent> contamination in my fuel?>> I did 
search the mail archive twice using 'methanol test' and also > 'Jan 
Warnqvist' as keywords, but the returns were not so informative.> 
List members I need your wisdom!>> Jan perhaps you are most 
qualified to answer but I would really like> to get a sense of the 
percentage of the list members who are running > this test. So chime 
in!>> Joe>> 
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Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Todd,
yes, to my knowledge it is favourable producing methyl esters by turning the
FFA:s into soaps as a first step. There will be amounts of water created
with this method as well, but it seems to be of less importance.
There is no need for "scaring people off" , but there is a need for
explaining the mechanisms necessary for success. There will also always be a
need for us that are trained to disperse our knowledge with the
responsibility required.
I was referring to acid esterification of FFA:s / oil without passing
through the soap step. These reactions are often incomplete, and moreover,
quite slow.
With best regards
Jan
Jan Warnqvist
AGERATEC AB

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+ 46 554 201 89
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- Original Message - 
From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 4:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions


> Jan,
>
> Since when are esterifications "often incomplete?"
>
> And since when is a "good conversion" achieved necessarily through base
> catalysis?
>
> It's relatively simple to take 100% FFAs and achieve a "100% yield" of
> esters. Industry does it daily from soap stock.
>
> Let people satisfy their own curiosities rather than scaring them off
> paths that many have already taken..., and succeeded at one might add.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
>
> Jan Warnqvist wrote:
>
> >Hello Jim,
> >the sensible thing is to spending time and money producing BD from a
cheap
> >feedstock, not the other way around.
> >Acid esterifications are often incomplete, and I assume that oils and
fats
> >with max 20% FFA are worth while bothering about, unless you are willing
to
> >do several acid esterification steps and draining off the produced water
> >after each step.But in order to have a good conversion into BD, you
finally
> >have to run the alkaline transesterification step , also for
neutralization.
> >Good luck to you !
> >Jan Warnqvist
> >AGERATEC AB
> >
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >+ 46 554 201 89
> >+46 70 499 38 45
> >- Original Message - 
> >From: "JJJN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: 
> >Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 3:26 AM
> >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Thanks Jan,
> >>If I had developed a method to separate FFA's from base stock without
> >>using chemicals or water say in the range of 95% separation in WVO
> >>(still a work in progress but hopeful results) so that I could React the
> >>Low FFA's in a Base method then would it be feasible to react the High
> >>FFA's In a separate Acid reaction? Or what problems would I encounter
> >>like the water problem you noted below?  Would the FFA's be worth the
> >>trouble?
> >>
> >>Thanks Jim
> >>
> >>Jan Warnqvist wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hello Jim,
> >>>when using the acid esterification, you will have methyl esters,
> >>>
> >>>
> >unreacted
> >
> >
> >>>oil, sulphate ions, oxonium ions and - water.
> >>>Proceeding to the base step you will create more methyl esters,
potassium
> >>>
> >>>
> >or
> >
> >
> >>>sodium soaps, maybe a little unreacted oil or partially reacted oil,
> >>>potassium or sodium sulphates and - even more water.
> >>>This method works fine if the water content can be kept on a reasonable
> >>>level. Please note that the higher the initial FFA level, the more
water
> >>>will be produced.
> >>>With best regards
> >>>Jan
> >>>Jan Warnqvist
> >>>AGERATEC AB
> >>>
> >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>
> >>>+ 46 554 201 89
> >>>+46 70 499 38 45
> >>>- Original Message - 
> >>>From: "JJJN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>To: "BIO" 
> >>>Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 3:01 AM
> >>>Subject: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I have decided to try the acid/base method in small test batches as I
> >>>>have some High FFA (4ml) oil I would like to process.  Since September
I
> >>>>have gone to great lengths to get repeatability and accuracy in all my
> >>>>work with Biodiesel. I have read and re-read JtF and I know that I
will
> >>>>no doubt read it several more times

Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Jim,
the sensible thing is to spending time and money producing BD from a cheap
feedstock, not the other way around.
Acid esterifications are often incomplete, and I assume that oils and fats
with max 20% FFA are worth while bothering about, unless you are willing to
do several acid esterification steps and draining off the produced water
after each step.But in order to have a good conversion into BD, you finally
have to run the alkaline transesterification step , also for neutralization.
Good luck to you !
Jan Warnqvist
AGERATEC AB

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+ 46 554 201 89
+46 70 499 38 45
- Original Message - 
From: "JJJN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 3:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions


> Thanks Jan,
> If I had developed a method to separate FFA's from base stock without
> using chemicals or water say in the range of 95% separation in WVO
> (still a work in progress but hopeful results) so that I could React the
> Low FFA's in a Base method then would it be feasible to react the High
> FFA's In a separate Acid reaction? Or what problems would I encounter
> like the water problem you noted below?  Would the FFA's be worth the
> trouble?
>
> Thanks Jim
>
> Jan Warnqvist wrote:
>
> >Hello Jim,
> >when using the acid esterification, you will have methyl esters,
unreacted
> >oil, sulphate ions, oxonium ions and - water.
> >Proceeding to the base step you will create more methyl esters, potassium
or
> >sodium soaps, maybe a little unreacted oil or partially reacted oil,
> >potassium or sodium sulphates and - even more water.
> >This method works fine if the water content can be kept on a reasonable
> >level. Please note that the higher the initial FFA level, the more water
> >will be produced.
> >With best regards
> >Jan
> >Jan Warnqvist
> >AGERATEC AB
> >
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >+ 46 554 201 89
> >+46 70 499 38 45
> >- Original Message - 
> >From: "JJJN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "BIO" 
> >Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 3:01 AM
> >Subject: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>I have decided to try the acid/base method in small test batches as I
> >>have some High FFA (4ml) oil I would like to process.  Since September I
> >>have gone to great lengths to get repeatability and accuracy in all my
> >>work with Biodiesel. I have read and re-read JtF and I know that I will
> >>no doubt read it several more times if I get stumped.  I would like to
> >>start with fully understanding the process first.
> >>Before I start:
> >>Can you use KOH with the Acid Base method?  It might be obvious, but I
> >>did not see it in the recipe as a substitution.
> >>
> >>When the acid gets done with Estrification properly then the mix that is
> >>left is basically an oil (triglycerides) , Methanol,  and Sulfur ions ?
> >>Or did I miss something?
> >>
> >>When the Methoxil is added the Sulfur gets combined with the Sodium
> >>ions, (right?) how does this affect the reaction?
> >>
> >>Any good experienced information would be helpful,
> >>
> >>Jim
> >>
> >>___
> >>Biofuel mailing list
> >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>
>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> >>
> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >>
> >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
> >>
> >>
> >messages):
> >
> >
> >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >___
> >Biofuel mailing list
> >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> >
> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
> >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>



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Re: [Biofuel] BD and Oil Burner

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Tom,
the leakage you have spotted is no doubt a 
result of material incompability, something that you will have to live with 
unless you find sealings of a compatible material.
The biodiesel from WVO will in case of 
crystallisation, plug the fuel filter of your burner, not causing 
leakages.
Is the jelly thing clear or emulsified 
?
Best regards
Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
+ 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Thomas 
  Kelly 
  To: biofuel 
  Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:43 
  PM
  Subject: [Biofuel] BD and Oil 
Burner
  
  Hello All,
   I've been using a 30% 
  BD/70% heating oil mix in my heating oil tank since August. My oil burner 
  heats my water as well as my house. All went well (each time I checked 
  the nozzle on the burner it was clean as new) until late in Dec.
    I was away. My 
  wife noticed an odor of diesel fuel in the basement. She found a small puddle 
  of oil under the furnace. Following is the 
  report from the person who serviced the burner:
   Oil leak under the 
  burner
   Nozzle jelled up 
  outside
   Found some sort of jelly 
  built up on end of nozzle
   Oil was dripping down 
  blast tube
   
   I suspect that the 
  difference in the performance of the mix in Dec vs Aug through Nov, is the 
  cold.  Although my oil tank is inside, it is in my basement where temps 
  drop below 50F on cold days. The fuel line to the burner is 12 ft long and 
  runs along an exterior wall. 
   During the colder 
  months I use the best WVO, with the lowest cloud point to made BD for my 
  car and the rest to make BD for my heating fuel. (My car is outdoors, 
  starts on the coldest days and runs well on a 70% BD/30% petro diesel 
  mix.  It has a small pre-coolant heater that I plug in for an hour before 
  starting.)
   Questions:
  1. Am I right in assuming 
  that the "jelly" on the nozzle is  the thicking of the BD due to the 
  cold?
      2. Can the problem be 
  addressed by heating the fuel line to the burner?
      3. Any other 
  thoughts?
    
  Thanks,
      
  Tom
   
  
  

  ___Biofuel mailing 
  listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel 
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Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Jim,
when using the acid esterification, you will have methyl esters, unreacted
oil, sulphate ions, oxonium ions and - water.
Proceeding to the base step you will create more methyl esters, potassium or
sodium soaps, maybe a little unreacted oil or partially reacted oil,
potassium or sodium sulphates and - even more water.
This method works fine if the water content can be kept on a reasonable
level. Please note that the higher the initial FFA level, the more water
will be produced.
With best regards
Jan
Jan Warnqvist
AGERATEC AB

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+ 46 554 201 89
+46 70 499 38 45
- Original Message - 
From: "JJJN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "BIO" 
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 3:01 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions


> I have decided to try the acid/base method in small test batches as I
> have some High FFA (4ml) oil I would like to process.  Since September I
> have gone to great lengths to get repeatability and accuracy in all my
> work with Biodiesel. I have read and re-read JtF and I know that I will
> no doubt read it several more times if I get stumped.  I would like to
> start with fully understanding the process first.
> Before I start:
> Can you use KOH with the Acid Base method?  It might be obvious, but I
> did not see it in the recipe as a substitution.
>
> When the acid gets done with Estrification properly then the mix that is
> left is basically an oil (triglycerides) , Methanol,  and Sulfur ions ?
> Or did I miss something?
>
> When the Methoxil is added the Sulfur gets combined with the Sodium
> ions, (right?) how does this affect the reaction?
>
> Any good experienced information would be helpful,
>
> Jim
>
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>



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Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel Testing excessive methanol

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Jim,
since the methanol solubility test worked out well, you probably have
created some soap from the methyl esters.
With best regards
Jan
Jan Warnqvist
AGERATEC AB

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+ 46 554 201 89
+46 70 499 38 45
- Original Message - 
From: "JJJN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "BIO" 
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:32 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Biodiesel Testing excessive methanol


> I just tested a 60 Liter batch and have a few questions; below is what I
> have done with the results and further below are my questions,
>
> The biodiesel used in the tests below was unwashed - glycerin layer
> removed.
>
> 1.) Using the test method noted on JtF ( Jan Warnqvist - Methanol test)
> as prescribed 225 ml Methanol combined with 25 ml of the biodiesel.
> Results: Biodiesel was fully soluble and formed a clear bright phase no
> contaminants or other phases noted. Results after 24 hours - No change.
>
> 2) Using a MODIFIED JtF method,  (combining 4.90875 grams lab grade KOH
> and 100 ml Methanol (Potassium Methoxil) with 1 Liter of the biodiesel)
> - INSTEAD I added 400ml methanol and 4.90875 grams KOH ( Potassium
> Methoxil ) (both lab grade near absolute) to 1 Liter of the Biodiesel. I
> then heated to 120 deg F and mixed for one hour.
> Results: after 24 hours  there was a nice amber layer from the bottom of
> the glass jar up to the last say 1/2 inch where a very very slightly
> amber layer resided to the top. there was nothing at the bottom at all.
>
> 3) Wash test JtF, In a glass jar I shook 1/2 Bio and 1/2 water at room
> temp till mixed into one phase.
> Results: within 1 minute the water and Bio separated and the water was
> quite white. Wash #2 same time of separation water clearer this time.
> Wash # 3 same as #2. Wash # 4 water was not drinking quality but PH is
> close to seven.
>
> O.K why did I increase the Methanol in test #2) above?  I am not sure
> except to see what it would do, but from what I read it would not harm
> so I did.
>
> My Question: Can anyone tell me what the strange clear amber layer on
> top of the other clear amber layer may be?
>
> Could this be the FFA content per L?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jim
>
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>
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>
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>
>



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Re: [Biofuel] In French ?

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Oliver.
I have some interesting ideas concerning biofuel in Switzerland. Contact me
on
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ASAP for further discussions.
Jan
Jan Warnqvist
AGERATEC AB

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+ 46 554 201 89
+46 70 499 38 45
- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] In French ?


Bonjour,

in researching the possibility of making BD with Isopropyl Alcohol, I
have noticed than in Europe many countries refer to biodiesel as FAME;
this may be a useful term to search for when looking for French language
information.

-Mike

Keith Addison wrote:

>>I would highly recommend also using:
>>
>>http://world.altavista.com/
>>
>>I would highly recommend also using an online translator such as
AltaVista's
>>Babelfish (http://world.altavista.com/).  I have used it frequently for
>>Russian to English, and it seems to have no problem with English to French
>>when you use the "Translate a web page" option.
>>
>>--Randall
>>Charlotte, NC
>>
>>
>
>Hello Randall
>
>The machine translators are useful, we've discussed using them here
>before, but that was for when people wanted to post messages in
>Spanish or French or whatever, not for technical instructions on a
>website.
>
>How would American biodieselers for instance like it if they had to
>get their information from Journey to Forever via Babelfish?
>
>Here's how the Spanish version of Mike Pelly's titration instructions
>come out in English via world.altavista.com:
>
>"Disolución of a gram of lejía in a distilled liter of water prepares
>one. Asegúrate of which it is dissolved totally. This sample serves
>like value of reference in valoración. It is important that this
>disolución is not contaminated because serˆ used in many valuations.
>Mixture in a container pequeño 10 mililiter of isopropílico alcohol
>with 1 mililiter of the oil (asegurate of which it is exactly 1
>mililiter). It takes to the oil sample después of it to have warmed
>up and to have shaken (5 Figure # 1). Añade two drops of
>fenolftaleína, that is an indicator ˆ cido-bases colorless in the
>presence of ˆ cidos and red in the presence of bases."
>
>English version:
>
>"Make up a solution of one gram of lye to one liter of distilled
>water. Make sure it dissolves completely. This sample is then used as
>a reference tester for the titration process. It's important not to
>let the sample get contaminated, it can be used for many titrations.
>Mix 10 milliliters of isopropyl alcohol in a small container with a 1
>milliliter sample of WVO -- make sure it's exactly 1 milliliter. Take
>the WVO titration sample from the reaction vessel (Figure 5 #1) after
>it's been warmed up and stirred. Add to this solution 2 drops of
>phenolphthalein, an acid-base indicator that's colorless in acid and
>red in base."
>
>Not so good eh?
>
>Lots of people in lots of countries speak French. If there aren't any
>good biofuels how-to sites in French there should be. Invitation
>stands:
>
>
>
>>>>If some of the French-speaking list members wanted to translate the
>>>>Journey to Forever Biofuels section into French we'd be happy to host
>>>>it, like the Spanish-language site.
>>>>
>>>>
>
>Best
>
>Keith
>
>
>
>
>
>>- Original Message -
>>From: "Sam Critchley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: 
>>Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 11:51 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] In French ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>Biodiesel is often called "diester" in French. Here's a French-language
>>>Wikipedia entry with some links to biodiesel in Switzerland at the
bottom:
>>>
>>>http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diester
>>>
>>>I also suggest doing an advanced search on Google for French-language
>>>pages containing the words biodiesel or diester.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Sam
>>>
>>>On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:01:00 +0100, Keith Addison
>>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hello Olivier
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I have some friends in the French side of Switzerland, Geneva, who are
>>>>>interested to try to make Biodiesel. They already have a car (a
>>>>>LandRover I beleive) running on SVO.
>>>>>
>>>>>But they do not speak (nor read) english.
>>>>>
>>>>>Do you know by any chanc