Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
Hello Keith, How do you equate GHGs to overall pollution? I equate GHG's to overall pollution in this instance because Mr. Gore positions himself as an environmental advocate. Granted, most recently, Mr. Gore has spoken almost entirely about Global Warming. I see no reason to limit the discussion in this forum to just one aspect of protecting the environment, since it is all related. BTW: Mr. Gore started his environmental discussions/career in the 1970's around toxic waste and other pollution, not Global Warming...that started in the 1980's. To keep it to GHGs, did you calculate the carbon emissions of the more than a few people you're betting travelled more than 20 minutes against the potential reduction in carbon emissions if they bought the message they went to hear, especially if they spread it? Did you? I agree, if a significant number of people that hear Gore's message actually do anything to reduce their contribution of GHG's, it is a good thing. However, wouldn't it be an EVEN BETTER thing if when delivering the message to those same people, they found a method that was the most efficient with regards to GHG emissions? Wouldn't that be a good, first practical lesson to all of those people? Just a thought. If you were planning such a media and publicity campaign would you choose video conferences or personal appearances? This is for an Oscar-winner, right? In America. If I was planning such a campaign, 'In America' ... I would do it in such a way that allows the vast majority sit on their couches, watching TV and not actually needing to go somewhere or do something to hear the message. :-) So he just does it for the money? Oh, well that's okay then, we can all buy another SUV. (sarcasm duly noted an accepted) :-) His attackers also assume something of a moral high ground in delivering their message, why don't you also suggest examining their motives? Excellent point! I agree wholeheartedly! (and it appears that in later posts, you and other have done this...bravo!) However, Mr. Gore does assume a moral stance on this issue, so the criticism is not unfair: From his Academy Award speech: My fellow Americans, people all over the world, we need to solve the climate crisis, it's not a political issue, it's a moral issue. We have everything we need to get started, with the possible exception of the will to act, that's a renewable resource, let's renew it. -- http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/02/25/gore-wins-hollywood-in-a-landslide/ Otherwise you will need to bring back a bunch of fallen televangelists. :-) IMO he is simply another person that wants (or needs) to be heard and doesn't really HONESTLY care what happens as a result. Why do you conclude that? Make up your mind, is it the money or the personal attention he needs? Or both? Because, if he really BELIEVES his message, he would do more in his personal life, even if it was inconvenient. So, I exercise my right (as previously stated) to be skeptical of the man and his motives. Nothing more. Granted Mr. Gore purchases carbon offsets when he flies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_offset) and his family drives hybrid cars...but why not also downsize their lifestyle and resulting impact on the environment? Why do they need so much power for their home? Why stop there? You mean Gore could just as well have left the stage arm in arm with Jerry Falwell as with Leonardo DiCaprio? In my personal opinion (and that is all that this is, really)...YES. I do not like (insert name) and I do not trust (insert same name). Feel free to choose from Al Gore, Jerry Falwell or your recent addition to my list, Leonardo DiCaprio. Why should I trust any one of them? I think your US party political views are leaking. Much more important than the global warming crisis is which wing of the US Business Party people should vote for, I guess. Well done AEI! LOL! Care to guess what my party political leanings actually are? They are likely not what you are implying... :-) Last time I checked, AEI doesn't speak for me. --Randall ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
Chip, But, I suppose the important and inconvenient truth in this matter is that Al is a politician--period. Actions speak MUCH MUCH louder than words.. Nonsense, they most certainly do not. Then we can all rest easy...Big Business is going to help...and they care ...At ExxonMobil, we work to balance these different needs. It's why we have invested more than $74 billion in the past five years to expand energy supplies. It's why we have promoted energy efficiency in our industry. It's why we have developed leading-edge technology partnerships. It's why we continue to invest so much in research - both into existing energy technologies for the short term and into new technologies for the decades ahead. And it's why we initiated the largest privately funded low-greenhouse-gas-energy research effort in history. By balancing all of these different energy demands, we will be able to address one of the greatest challenges of our age. http://exxonmobil.com/Corporate/Citizenship/CCR5/index.asp So...since they talk the talk...all is good? Of course not...it is what they are actually doing that matters. Same thing...different venue...different actors. Walking the talk in this particular arena, *almost* by definition translates into having very little if *any* political power. Easy enough for Mr. Gore...he doesn't have much political power right now, so he should be walking the walk pretty well. :-) But until Al took the show on the road, who heard it? Millions of people...but they haven't heard (until recently) why it actually affects them and why they should care. All of my family and friends, co-workers and acquaintances know about the issues...the movie didn't change that. Al has broadened the audience, very much so. In the year since documentary was released, I personally (from this US centric view) have been just flat out stunned by the shift in the dialog. The shift (from my point of view) was happening long before the movie hit the theaters. I do not know anyone personally that was affected by the movie. That doesn't mean it didn't influence other people, but I think its influence is overrated. (Just my opinion based on personal observation) Fact is, Al Gore (whom I used to refer to as the Manchurian Candidate) was *almost* president of the US. Some say he in fact was elected to the office. This I will not debate, because there really is no point. However, you don't get to be president by living a low impact life. There are a number of brilliant folks living low impact lifestyles out there, some of which would no doubt be up to the task of directing the show here in the US. However, we'll not hear from them, because they are busy. Busy living low impact lives. It is a lot of effort, as any of us who are expending effort in this direction know quite well. I would generally say that most people that are NOT involved in politics are too busy living to be heard from. That's life. However, you can be a world leader without living a high impact life...a couple examples come quickly to mind...GandhiMother Theresa...and I would not rate top US politicians in the same category. Since Mr. Gore has significant financial resources, he could try demonstrating that you can have an impact on the issue at hand, without being so easily criticized for hypocrisy by not living the message. Why let controversy about the messenger get in the way of the message when it can so easily be avoided? As to his energy holdings, make note of the sad fact that money is fungible. Folks who hold interest in diversified funds, all hold bits and pieces of energy companies. Some more than others. The more you are vested, the more influence you have. If you have no influence, then who cares what you think? Then why care what most of the people of the world think, if they are not rich and vested? --Randall ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
Hello Keith, Indeed it is, but the subject under discussion is about global warming, not about general pollution, and I think I agree with Michael Klare about how relevant general pollution issues are to dealing with global warming (not very relevant). It's about energy, not pollution. The attack on Gore is about energy, not pollution. There's a difference between broadening the discussion and smokescreening. Ok. If it isn't relevant, then I have learned more today than I knew when I woke up. To keep it to GHGs, did you calculate the carbon emissions of the more than a few people you're betting travelled more than 20 minutes against the potential reduction in carbon emissions if they bought the message they went to hear, especially if they spread it? Did you? It's a good bet, I'd have taken a chance on it. Then you would care to share your results? But, my guess (yes, a guess, not a calculation) would be that someone staying local to their home and either seeing a FREE screening of the movie, or seeing it on television would result in lower GHG emissions compared to the GHG emissions of many people traveling to some central location, along with all the extra people needed traveling to such an event to make it possible. It's not just a thought, Randall. You're using it to try to discredit what is being accomplished as well as the man himself. Nope. Just common sense. I applaud what is trying to be accomplished, but I do not applaud Mr. Gore's lifestyle or choice of proposed methods to deliver his message. You can try as much as you like to write or assume more into my statements if you so choose, but you will be wrong. Just because a news item comes from someone opposed to Mr. Gore, or the message he is delivering, doesn't make it untrue. 'nuff said. If I was planning such a campaign, 'In America' ... I would do it in such a way that allows the vast majority sit on their couches, watching TV and not actually needing to go somewhere or do something to hear the message. :-) I guess that's what the movie accomplishes, no? I'd advise against your seeking employment as a publicist. That is my point...if the movie was so influential, then there is no need for large gatherings, before less environmentally unfriendly methods are first used. Never considered that as a career but thanks, I guess. So he just does it for the money? Oh, well that's okay then, we can all buy another SUV. (sarcasm duly noted an accepted) :-) Does that mean he doesn't just do it for the money? I am quite certain that he doesn't just do it for the money, as is obvious by his long record of environmental causes and then Global Warming. However, it does show a lack of personal accountability for his choices despite his stated beliefs. Once again, the messenger is getting in the way of the message...much like the much maligned Televangelists. so the criticism is not unfair: You're saying it's a moral criticism? Do you actually believe that? It's typical of the kind of morally bankrupt cheap hits one has come to expect from such sources. Morally bankrupt? Please explain. Such sources? Tennessee Center for Policy Research ? Because, if he really BELIEVES his message, he would do more in his personal life, even if it was inconvenient. And if he did do more, if he did do EVEN BETTER, would it ever be enough, in your judgment? At what stage would his doing more allow for the possibility that he might actually believe his message, this man you say has been campaigning on environmental issues for the last 30 years? Why don't you apply the same criteria to the Tennessee Center for Policy Research? Do you think they really believe their message? Or should they do more? Yes. Actually, if he did more, especially within his means, that would be wonderful! Actually, I think the TCPR does believe their message--that doesn't make the message correct...but that also doesn't make some of their facts incorrect, either. But, if that is important that TCPR believes their message, then it is certainly important if Mr. Gore believes his message. So, I exercise my right (as previously stated) to be skeptical of the man and his motives. Nothing more. Yes it was, it was not even-handed, it was biased, and it included some ugly accusations you're not prepared to substantiate. More like character assassination than honest scepticism. Do you mean like what you are doing to me? Granted Mr. Gore purchases carbon offsets when he flies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_offset) and his family drives hybrid cars...but why not also downsize their lifestyle and resulting impact on the environment? Why do they need so much power for their home? Why stop there? Who said they stopped? You didn't answer the question. Since I haven't read about anything else they have done in their personal lives that is particularly pro-environmental (solar hot
Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
Terry, Why can't Al do video conferences instead of traveling, or is he simply too important not to make personal appearances? Bet there are more than a few people that traveled more than 20 minutes just to see/hear him speak. What did that extra travelling by the audience, staff, promoters, concessions people, security, law enforcement, etc contribute to overall pollution instead of people being able to simply watching Al on TV or their computer. I bet he gets MUCH more money for making a personal appearance than just a conference call or distributing a video. He had the right idea with his movie... But, I suppose the important and inconvenient truth in this matter is that Al is a politician--period. Actions speak MUCH MUCH louder than words...and that is why it is ok to attack (or at least seriously question) the messenger's motives when the messenger is delivering an ethical message---Otherwise you will need to bring back a bunch of fallen televangelists. :-) IMO he is simply another person that wants (or needs) to be heard and doesn't really HONESTLY care what happens as a result.I rank him up there with Jerry Falwell and any number of failed politicos. ---Randall - Original Message - From: Terry Dyck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use Hi Fre, I attended Dr. David Suzuki's event in Kelowna 2 days ago and he mentioned that he travels with his family to the Okanagan every summer to pick cherries and I know that Dr. Suzuki was the first person in Canada to buy a Prius Hybrid car. So he probally uses the hybrid to travel to the Okanagan valley. As far as the environmental tour called, If your were Prime Minister what would you do? I am sure that he has to cover a lot of terrritory in a short period of time. The main issue is that both Al Gore and Dr. Suzuki are influencing alot of people which is the most important thing now. Time is important because 2007 could be the pivitol year to save this planet. Terry Dyck From: Fred Oliff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:40:30 -0500 Al Gore flew from Montreal to Toronto last week. I would have thought a true advocate for climate change could have found someone with 1)maybe a Smart car to drive him, 2)powered with biodiesel or some other renewable fuel. David Suzuki is on a 50-city cross Canada tour and I understand he is also flying everywhere. When does the medium (i.e. the messenger) become more important than the message? From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST) Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth': While telling the rest of us to cut back, he uses 20 times more energy to run his house than everyone else. http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_worldid=5072659 Heated pools.electronic gates.gas lanterns in yard.and $30,000 a year in utility bills. How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e? (2/27/07 - NASHVILLE, TN) - Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in his suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in the Oscar awarded to An Inconvenient Truth, the documentary he inspired and in which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to make that very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental hypocrisy. Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and electric bills for the former vice president's 20-room home and pool house devoured nearly 221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006, more than 20 times the national average of 10,656 kilowatt-hours. If this were any other person with $30,000-a-year in utility bills, I wouldn't care, says the Center's 27-year-old president, Drew Johnson. But he tells other people how to live and he's not following his own rules. Scoffed a former Gore adviser in response: I think what you're seeing here is the last gasp of the global warming skeptics. They've completely lost the debate on the issue so now they're just attacking their most effective opponent. Kalee Kreider, a spokesperson for the Gores, did not dispute the Center's figures, taken as they were from public records. But she pointed out that both Al and Tipper Gore work out of their home and she argued that the bottom line is that every family has a different carbon footprint. And what Vice President Gore has asked is for families to calculate that footprint and take steps to reduce and offset it. A carbon footprint is a calculation of the CO2 fossil fuel emissions each person is responsible for, either directly
Re: [Biofuel] Fund new technology to curb climate change: oil executive - CBC.ca - 2007.02.20
Robert, Unless I am just missing something basic...if you are over 35 years old, a natural born citizen of the US, and have lived in the US for 14 years, you are qualified. I don't read anywhere that it says that you have to be a resident for the last 14 years prior to running for election. Plus, don't forget...there are other national offices. :-) --Randall US Constitution, Article II, Section 1 No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States. - Original Message - From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fund new technology to curb climate change: oil executive - CBC.ca - 2007.02.20 Fred Oliff wrote: you have my vote! please run for office now! Sorry Fred, but I've been out of the country too long to qualify . . . You'd have to amend the Constitution. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice The Long Journey New Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fund new technology to curb climate change:oil executive - CBC.ca - 2007.02.20
Robert, Getcherself on the ballot and I will vote for you...especially since you don't want the job! :-) --Randall - Original Message - From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fund new technology to curb climate change:oil executive - CBC.ca - 2007.02.20 Randall wrote: Robert, Unless I am just missing something basic...if you are over 35 years old, a natural born citizen of the US, and have lived in the US for 14 years, you are qualified. I don't read anywhere that it says that you have to be a resident for the last 14 years prior to running for election. Plus, don't forget...there are other national offices. :-) --Randall US Constitution, Article II, Section 1 No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States. Ok, I looked at my copy of the Constitution and you're right. I'd read the 14 years' residency requirement to mean 14 years immediately prior to running for office. Vote for me!!! Although, I don't really WANT the job . . . robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice The Long Journey New Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Seed Companies Want To Ban Farm-saved Seed
Does anyone know of a good source of seeds, especially near Charlotte, NC? --Randall - Original Message - From: A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Seed Companies Want To Ban Farm-saved Seed So, when the farmers stop farming becauser they can't buy the seed, are the big *head honchos* going to go hungry too?? Seems the only route left open is to grow yer own - they can't toss everyone in the cooler for having seeds... remember - we are the many - they are the few - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 9:06 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Seed Companies Want To Ban Farm-saved Seed New from GRAIN February 2007 http://www.grain.org/?nfg=470 SEED COMPANIES WANT TO BAN FARM-SAVED SEED A new report from GRAIN reveals the new lobbying offensive from the global seed industry to make it a crime for farmers to save seeds for the next year's planting. This briefing traces the recent discussions within the seed industry and explores what will happen if a plant variety right becomes virtually indistinguishable from a patent. BACKGROUND Seed companies already have strong legal support from governments. In many countries, seed laws require farmers to use only certified seed of government-approved varieties. That seed is often available only from commercial seed companies. A rapidly increasing number of governments also grant legal monopoly rights for commercial seed, by means of industrial patents and so-called plant variety protection (PVP). Until recently, both seed patents and PVP existed only in developed countries. But since the World Trade Organisation (WTO) was created in 1994, all member governments must provide some form of monopoly rights on seeds. There is now enormous pressure on developing countries to adopt the developed country models. Many have been persuaded to join the international PVP system, managed by UPOV (International Union for the Protection of New Varieties of Plants). In the past ten years, UPOV has more than doubled its membership. Most new members are developing countries. The UPOV system was originally set up in 1961, in response to many years of lobbying by the seed industry. What the companies really wanted was to have industrial patents on seeds. Patents give absolute rights to control all uses of the seed, both for planting and for further breeding. But at the time many governments felt that patents would give industry too much power over farmers. The UPOV PVP was created as a compromise. From the beginning, it gave seed companies a monopoly on only the commercial multiplication and the marketing of seeds. Farmers remained free to save seed from their own harvest to plant in the following year, and other breeders could freely use any variety, protected or not, to develop a new one. During the 1980s, the development of genetic engineering attracted large transnational companies from the pharmaceuticals and chemical sectors into plant breeding. With their much greater lobbying power, they began a new offensive to strengthen monopoly rights on plant breeding in developed countries. First, they got industrial patents on plants bred with genetic engineering (GE) and related techniques. This meant, in practice, that they got the absolute monopoly that conventional breeders had been refused two decades earlier. Second, the UPOV PVP rights were radically expanded for all plant varieties, GE or conventional. Since 1991, the PVP monopoly has applied not only to seed multiplication but also to the harvest and sometimes the final product as well. The previously unlimited right for farmers to save seed for the following year's planting has been changed into an optional exception. Only if the national government allows it can farm-saved seed still be used, and a royalty has to be paid to the seed company even for seeds grown on-farm. Third, these much stronger monopoly rights are required for membership in the WTO, as already described. This is the starting point for the new lobby offensive now being prepared by the global seed industry. The goal this time is to remove the few remaining differences between the PVP system and patents, so that companies will have an absolute monopoly over seeds all over the world, regardless of which legal system is used, for all crops and all countries. THE REAL TARGET - FARM-SAVED SEED Farm-saved seed will be a primary target of this offensive. At least two-thirds of the global crop area is currently planted with farm-saved seed every year. In many developing countries, it represents 80--90 per cent of all seed used, but even in developed countries it commonly accounts for a large share (30--60 per cent). If farmers were legally forced to plant all of this area with commercial seed
Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is rising!C02 isrising!A scientific Rebutal
Phillip, ... At the same time, 85% of the world's forests (which are natural carbon sinks) have been destroyed or degraded. ... Could you be a little more specific? I agree with Jim, those numbers seem VERY high and the term degraded seems a bit vague. ... The info came from the World Resources Institute (www.wri.org) There's a ton of useful stuff on their site. Where, specifically, on www.wri.org can this information be found and then verified? --Randall Concord, NC - Original Message - From: JAMES PHELPS [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is rising!C02 isrising!A scientific Rebutal Well I am not sure I buy 85%. This seems a bit skewed as high. I say this because not all mans activities have been adverse. in example, The Dakotas have a hundred fold more trees than existed 200 years ago. There are also more crops in production that are bigger co2 gulpers than native crops. I also understand this is just a very small snapshot in the whole scheme of things and the fact that those crops can also be used to create methane as a result of feed stocks and so forth. But when we use numbers like that, we will tend to disenchant those on the edge of understanding. Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Anti-Empire Report
What nations have had an entirely civil history? - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Anti-Empire Report Since when is 'America' a country?? Frank Navarrete wrote: America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde Only to be imprisoned in civilized England for being homosexual and forced to do hard labor which led to his death. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking that any Western nations have a civil history. Frank On 2/4/07, Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The historian Toynbee said something similar. He said America was the only western country to decline before it reached its peak. Kirk Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.17.21/665 - Release Date: 2/2/2007 11:39 PM ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Never Miss an Email Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
How about simply dumping the AT, and do a conversion similar to the Soletria E-10 (Chevy S-10) conversion? Just mount the electric motor in the rear directly to the differential after flipping it to face to the rear. Then you could do a mixture of super caps and batteries to save weight. For longer trips, then just get a hybrid trailer and plug it directly to the controller/battery pack for charging and run the motor off bio. Just my $0.02. :-) Randall Charlotte, NC - Original Message - From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion? Luke Hansen wrote: Thanks for the input Darryl, It saddens me to read about the two failed van conversions, as my van has quite a bit of sentimental value to me, and the block cracked in our big freeze a month ago (quite rare so close to the coast, but we all know that anthropogenic climate change is just a creation of our liberal media). It could just be expansion (freeze) plugs, but I don't feel like dropping the engine just to find out. Uh-huh. I had the 3/4-ton version for many years. Nothing enjoyable about the space around that engine for working. Still, a lot less work than an electric conversion. Besides, you're going to have to drop the engine anyway as part of the conversion exercise. Granted, the van is one heavy piece of detroit steel, but what exactly is the hang-up? Voltage? Total weight? I'm guessing that most of the batterys' charge is used in overcoming inertia, right? The weight is the starting point for the issues. IIRC, this van weighs about 4,000 pounds empty. To get any kind of performance (say 0-30 mph in under 20 seconds) is going to take a lot of watts. Voltage doesn't matter - watts matter. (Watts is voltage times amps.) You will need a very large electric motor, something in the order of 40 hp continuous rating. Think mine locomotive, not golf cart. Everything gets heavier as a result. Heavier cables, heavier safety devices, heavier batteries, and they cycle keeps feeding on itself. The inertia should not be your biggest loss unless you are starting and stopping four times a mile. The GM van has the aerodynamics of a brick, so travelling at speed should be your biggest loss. *sigh* 'tis a daunting task at hand...but like the good doctor says, when the going gets weird, the weird get professional. So, sounds like I can safely rule out the use of a starter motor for a drive motor. Why did the van projects die in progress? Variety of factors. First is that most of these vans came with automatic transmissions. Adapters from an electric motor to the automatic tranny / torque converter were challenging. Then there is the issue of how to mount the motor in the engine space so it is braced against torque rotation, but not solidly locked to the frame. Getting a motor big enough was a factor. (500-amp starter generators were not up to the job.) Then there is the cost of 1,000 to 2,000 pounds of deep cycle batteries, mounting them securely, and beefing up the suspension to take the weight. Oh, and something to actually control the electricity from the pack to the motor is handy - also not cheap. Essentially, it just ends up expensive for disappointing returns. Best to learn on something cheaper. Another conversion did get onto the road. It mysteriously caught fire shortly after going into service. The owner was never satisfied with how it performed in the short time it was operational. There have been professional conversions of this platform as well. Look for Lucas-Chloride Bedford van electric conversions (probably the best) and the Magna G-Van conversions for more on how it was done when folks had big budgets. Check the specs. Then downrate everything by at least 50% to allow for doing things on the cheap and learning on the go. That's about the best you can hope for. --- Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I might be able to contribute something on the subject. I strongly recommend you visit my Web site first. You might find something of interest starting at: http://www.econogics.com/ev/evindex.htm Some other folks have said kind things about the material there over the years. As to the specific points in your post. Forget the 1/2 ton van. Too heavy = too expensive to accomplish anything of value. I have personally watched two Chev van conversion projects die incomplete. 96 volts is pretty conventional, there's lots of components available there. However, it's not going to work with aircraft starter generators. Standard automotive batteries (starting, lighting, ignition: SLI) will not survive long in a deep-discharge application. There is plenty of experience to prove this out. Automotive starter motors as propulsion devices will die even faster. They are designed
Re: [Biofuel] The Dollar's Full-System Meltdown
Wait until the inflation starts, get a different job and continue to pay your old debts with your inflated salary. :-) - Original Message - From: Paul S Cantrell To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Dollar's Full-System Meltdown IF your future view is correct, why not wait to pay down debt? It will be cheaper to pay it off later after inflation, as long as the interest rate isn't too high. On 11/1/06, D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kirk, I started buying gold and silver. Also trying to get rid of debt. I think I better start selling my IRA stock funds while they are up and pay off the debt. I think we're in for a rough ride. We have been Bush whacked. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 12:30 PM Subject: The Dollar's Full-System Meltdown A report in The Sydney Morning Herald stated, "Australia's Treasurer Peter Costello has called on East Asia's central bankers to 'telegraph' their intentions to diversify out of American investments and ensure an 'orderly adjustment'….Central banks in China, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and Hong Kong have channeled immense foreign reserves into American government bonds, helping to prop up the US dollar and hold down interest rates,' said Costello, but 'the strategy has changed.'" Indeed, the strategy has changed. The world has come to its senses and is moving away from the green slip of paper that is currently mired in $8.3 trillion of debt. http://informationclearinghouse.info/article15440.htm -- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switchIt's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it. - Steven Wright How good bad music and bad reasons sound when we march against an enemy. - Friedrich Nietzsche ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as Anesthesia Was Testimonials as Evidence)
Kurt, You nailed it on the head with something that has bothered me for years... I see it too often in the real world too; people sling close minded around to describe anyone who doesn't believe the same thing they do. If you aren't this denomination but you're that one, you're close minded. If you aren't for the totally open distribution of presently illegal drugs, you're closed-minded, or if you're unwilling to consider on the flip side of the coin that some of those drugs are legitimately dangerous, you're close-minded but also a stoner/hippy/whatever the label of the day is. It seems that the first one to label the other as closed minded wins...regardless of the discussion/argument/flamewar/etc. Although, sometimes it does give me a good chuckle when you step back even further and just watch. :-) BTW: (* Belated Chuckle*) --Randall Charlotte, NC ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Taking Oil Out Of The Equation
Irv, I think you might want to change that equation to: Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and likely most future presidents...perhaps even going back a bit futher even... --Randall - Original Message - From: Irwin Levinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Taking Oil Out Of The Equation Kieth Have you worked out the following(?): The US will use the last drop of oil from where-ever else: (North sea, mid east, Khazakstazhn, Nigeria, Venezuala, etc.) before we (the US) use the last drops of oil in the US and territories. Think of that particular foreign policy as the ultimate well secretified hidden foreign policy of the Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Bush and future Admins. and the true underpinning of US military adventures in every country or land mass. The future depends on OIL, as if colonialism wasn't/isn't enough. If and when biofuels take the majority energy and lube dependency expect no-less from foreign policy, than to follow suite. Irv -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sep 27, 2006 6:31 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Taking Oil Out Of The Equation http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/09/21/taking_oil_out_of_the_equation.php TomPaine.com - Taking Oil Out Of The Equation Michael T. Klare September 21, 2006 Michael T. Klare is a professor of peace and world security studies at Hampshire College and the author of Blood and Oil: The Dangers and Consequences of America's Growing Dependency on Imported Petroleum (Owl Books). In his September 11 address to the nation, President Bush declared that the war against on terror is the decisive ideological struggle of the 21st century, pitting the ideals of Western civilization against a perverted vision of Islam. Bush is certainly correct that ideology plays a critical role in the war on terror and that this struggle cannot be won if Washington fails in the battle of ideas (which its abysmal record in Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo is helping to ensure). But ideology is only part of the equation. Just as significant, if far less acknowledged, is the relationship between oil and Islamic extremism. If it weren't for our dependence on Middle Eastern oil, we wouldn't project such a conspicuous and over-bearing presence in the Middle East-and it is this presence, more than anything else, that has generated the toxic anti-Americanism on which al-Qaida feeds. Doing better in the battle of ideas is not enough; if we ever hope to prevail in the war on terror, we must also remove oil from the strategic equation. To fully appreciate the relationship between America's oil dependency and contemporary Middle Eastern terrorism, it is necessary to know something about the historical trajectories of both. Prior to World War II, the United States had very little official presence in the Persian Gulf area-at that time we were self-sufficient in oil, and in any case were content to allow Great Britain to control the region. But President Franklin D. Roosevelt correctly surmised that the United States would eventually become dependent on imported oil as our domestic reserves were drained, and so he set out to establish American control over a major foreign source of supply-eventually selecting Saudi Arabia to assume this role. On February 14, 1945, he met with King Abdul Aziz ibn Saud aboard a U.S. warship in the Suez Canal and forged an oil-for-protection arrangement under which the United States pledged to defend the Saudi royal family in return for privileged access to Saudi petroleum reserves. All else that has occurred in the Gulf, including 9/11, has followed from this fateful encounter. To carry out the terms of the 1945 Roosevelt-Ibn Saud agreement, successive American presidents deployed an ever-larger U.S. military presence in the region and helped establish both the Saudi Royal Army and the Saudi Arabian National Guard (SANG), responsible for internal security. The growing U.S. military presence was coupled with the growing presence of American oil companies, which helped turned Saudi Arabia into the world's leading producer. With fields in most other parts of the world in decline-the United States reached its peak, or maximum sustainable output in 1971-production from the Persian Gulf became increasingly essential for the smooth operation of the global economy. The conspicuous presence of American soldiers and oil company personnel in the Gulf area was not without its detractors, however. Many devout Muslims saw this as an unwelcome intrusion of non-believers in the Islamic heartland, and others saw it as a form of imperialism. America's close association with Israel was also a source of irritation for many. Still, it was the British who first experienced the intractable wrath of Islamic
[Biofuel] From the BBC -- Biofuels: Green energy or grim reaper?
Original Article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5369284.stm Send your comments: http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=3971edition=2ttl=20060922184357 Jeffrey A McNeely Biofuels could end up damaging the natural world rather than saving it from global warming, argues Jeff McNeely in the Green Room. Better policies, better science and genetic modification, he says, can all contribute to a greener biofuels revolution With soaring oil prices, and debates raging on how to reduce carbon emissions to slow climate change, many are looking to biofuels as a renewable and clean source of energy. The European Union recently has issued a directive calling for biofuels to meet 5.75% of transportation fuel needs by 2010. Germany and France have announced they intend to meet the target well before the deadline; California intends going still further. This is a classic "good news-bad news" story. Of course we all want greater energy security, and helping achieve the goals (however weak) of the Kyoto Protocol is surely a good thing. However, biofuels - made by producing ethanol, an alcohol fuel made from maize, sugar cane, or other plant matter - may be a penny wise but pound foolish way of doing so. Consider the following: The grain required to fill the petrol tank of a Range Rover with ethanol is sufficient to feed one person per year. Assuming the petrol tank is refilled every two weeks, the amount of grain required would feed a hungry African village for a year Much of the fuel that Europeans use will be imported from Brazil, where the Amazon is being burned to plant more sugar and soybeans, and Southeast Asia, where oil palm plantations are destroying the rainforest habitat of orangutans and many other species. Species are dying for our driving If ethanol is imported from the US, it will likely come from maize, which uses fossil fuels at every stage in the production process, from cultivation using fertilisers and tractors to processing and transportation. Growing maize appears to use 30% more energy than the finished fuel produces, and leaves eroded soils and polluted waters behind Meeting the 5.75% target would require, according to one authoritative study, a quarter of the EU's arable land Using ethanol rather than petrol reduces total emissions of carbon dioxide by only about 13% because of the pollution caused by the production process, and because ethanol gets only about 70% of the mileage of petrol Food prices are already increasing. With just 10% of the world's sugar harvest being converted to ethanol, the price of sugar has doubled; the price of palm oil has increased 15% over the past year, with a further 25% gain expected next year.Little wonder that many are calling biofuels "deforestation diesel", the opposite of the environmentally friendly fuel that all are seeking. With so much farmland already taking the form of monoculture, with all that implies for wildlife, do we really want to create more diversity-stripped desert? Others are worried about the impacts of biofuels on food prices, which will affect especially the poor who already spend a large proportion of their income on food. Biotech boost So what is to be done? The first step is to increase our understanding of how nature works to produce energy. Amazingly, scientists do not yet have a full understanding of the workings of photosynthesis, the process by which plants use solar energy to absorb carbon dioxide and build carbohydrates. Biotechnology, its reputation sullied by public protests over GM foods, may make important contributions. According to the science journal Nature, recombinant technology is already available that could enhance ethanol yield, reduce environmental damage from feedstock, and improve bioprocessing efficiency at the refinery. The Swiss biotech firm Syngenta is developing a genetically engineered maize that can help convert itself into ethanol by growing a particular enzyme. Others are designing trees that have less lignin, the strength-giving substance that enables them to stand upright, but makes it more difficult to convert the tree's cellulose into ethanol. Some environmentalists are worried that these altered trees will cross-breed with wild trees, resulting in a drooping forest rather than one that stands tall and produces useful timber and wildlife habitat. In the longer run, biotech promises to help convert wood chips, farm wastes, and willow trees into bioethanol more cheaply and cleanly, thereby helping meet energy needs while also improving its public image. Public stake But that is not nearly enough; bioenergy is too important to be left in the hands of the private sector. Many of the social and environmental benefits of bioenergy are not priced in the market, so the public sector needs to step in to ensure
Re: [Biofuel] socialism, taxes, economics, comments please.
Here, I tried to build a Very Simple Model. Key point, Very Simple. There are 24 hours in a day, everyone earns on a factor of 24, the unit under debate is one hour. Paid by whom? They are paid even for sleeping? - Original Message - From: Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:42 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] socialism, taxes, economics, comments please. Joe Street wrote: u well, 1 hr at $12.50/hr times 5 days a week times 48 weeks comes to $3000.00 unless my calulator is busted...it is a microsoft thingie after all. Assuming he dehydrates over the weekend and Christmas of course. Joe Ahh sheesh. Here, I tried to build a Very Simple Model. Key point, Very Simple. There are 24 hours in a day, everyone earns on a factor of 24, the unit under debate is one hour. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] socialism, taxes, economics, comments please.
Do all households use the same amount of water? If not, what limits are placed on how much water a household can use in a day? - Original Message - From: Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] socialism, taxes, economics, comments please. DHAJOGLO wrote: On Monday, September 18, 2006 1:16 PM, Chip Mefford wrote: Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:16:21 -0400 From: Chip Mefford To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] socialism, taxes, economics, comments please. Spent a lot of hours behind the wheel these last few weeks. SNIP SNIP SNIP Q1. What is an hours labour worth in this community? The worth of the water hour is the same to all. While others may be able to pay someone else to fetch the water, it still takes an hour and it still provides the same benefit. Good point. Thanks Q2. Should the community consider bringing in cheap labour to haul their water? No, bringing in a water hauler will not change the structure only increase the cost (even if it is cheap labor). Nice. I like it. I nominate you as my representative! Q3, Should the community levee a tax and use the tax to pay the cheap labour to haul the water? Same as above, just makes the cost distributed through a political structure. Q3.1 If so, at what rate should Albert, Beverly, Charles and Emily be taxed? Emily would call for a flat tax, citing that she uses the same amount of water as everyone else. The others would argue a progressive tax. Neither of which is ideal. Yeah, I should actually sit down and try to plug Nash into this. Thanks for playing! good comments! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] socialism, taxes, economics, comments please.
A few questions: Are non-wage earner family members able to help haul water? (ie. children, spouses, etc) Does everyone live equally far from the community well? If so, why? What if someone wants to get excercise by getting their own water and not be taxed to have someone else do it for them? Can someone pay another person (perhaps someone from outside the community) to fetch their own water, do lawn maintence, etc? What do the people in the community do for water 2 days a week during their working weeks, and for the other 6 weeks when they are not working? Q1. What is an hours labour worth in this community? A1: I guess it depends on what is being done and by whom. Q2. Should the community consider bringing in cheap labour to haul their water? A2: No. The community has obviously been functioning reasonably well with the current scheme for water collection and use. Q3, Should the community levee a tax and use the tax to pay the cheap labour to haul the water? A3:No. The community doesn't have the available free-time to fill out tax returns. Q3.1 If so, at what rate should Albert, Beverly, Charles and Emily be taxed? A3.1: It depends on what the person processing, collecting, and disbursing the funds collected is going to be paid and if anyone has the ability to opt-out and haul their own water. - Original Message - From: Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 2:16 PM Subject: [Biofuel] socialism, taxes, economics, comments please. Spent a lot of hours behind the wheel these last few weeks. Driving from the 'services' economy of the greater mid-atlantic Washington DC USA region, through rural WV, and Pa, up through industrialized and agricultural southern Canada, down through agricultural and tourist economy of northern Michigan/UP... A model came to mind. A Very Simple Economic Model. - Albert, the blacksmith. Earns the equiv of $24,000 US a year plying his trade. Beverly, the mortgage banker. Earns the equiv of $240,000 US a year, plying her trade. Charles, the surgeon, Earns the equiv of $2.400,000 US a year plying his trade Emily, the CEO, Earns the equiv of $24,000,000 US a year plying her trade. In this community, folks work 8 hours a day to fulfill their trade obligations, no more, no less. In this community, folks work 5 days a week to fulfill their trade obligations, no more, no less. In this community, folks work 48 weeks a year to fulfill their trade obligations, no more, no less. In this community where Albert, Beverly, Charles and Emily live, it takes 1 hour to go the communal well, and draw the water needed for the day, and haul it back to their respective domiciles. --- Q1. What is an hours labour worth in this community? Q2. Should the community consider bringing in cheap labour to haul their water? Q3, Should the community levee a tax and use the tax to pay the cheap labour to haul the water? Q3.1 If so, at what rate should Albert, Beverly, Charles and Emily be taxed? Discussion. What is this hour devoted to drawing water worth? Since there are 24 hours in the day, and all the hours are spoken for, doing the regular stuff, like raising kids, cleaning house, working, fiddling about, and occasionally watching NFL or world cup rallye, the only reason to do offload the hauling of water duty would be to gain an extra hour of free time. So, to Albert, an hour of free time is essentially worth $1000 over a year. To Beverly, $10,000, to Charles $100,000 and to Emily $1,000,000. Discussion How does the Nash Equilibrium bear on this scenario? - Somewhere, I'm sure this Very Simple Model is already addressed. If someone could point me to a paper, I'd greatly appreciate it. Comments please. thanks. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Disney
There were several questions that I felt should have had a neutral/don't know/don't care option. I would have guessed a different score for myself...more Right/Libertarian... Economic Left/Right: -.88Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -.77 The test was fun...but I agree...not very accurate. A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS, but it uses up a thousand times the memory. 0x2B | ~0x2B --Hamlet - Original Message - From: Thor Burfine To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Disney Well I used to consider myself an a$$ holenow I guess I am a Liberial LeftEconomic Left/Right: -3.25Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.77Still have no clue what this means, not sure I care.I know what I like, want, fear, and hate. I think thats all that matters in life.My motto... "I don't care what you think"My theme song... Robert Earl King - Rich Young Dumb NymphomaniacMy thoughts on global warming... It happens in nature, we just turbo charged the processMy feeling on the middle east... we can drill for oil through glassI don't think the test is very accurate--If the Brits wore red coats to hide the blood on the field of battle then that explains why the French wear brown pants. From: "Jason Katie" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:36 PMTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Disney i got a -4.38 on the left/right, and a -4.67 libertarian/authoritarian, putting me in the libertarian left section. i have no idea what this means. if you need me, i'll be looking this stuff up... JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Paul S Cantrell To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Disney Jason,You can be a Social Liberal and a Fiscal Conservative, or vice versa.I prefer the term Progressive.Ever taken the political compass test online?http://www.politicalcompass.org You might learn something about yourself. On 9/12/06, Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is it possible to be both?JasonICQ#:154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message -From: "robert and benita rabello" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:42 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Disney Mike Weaver wrote:I'm proud of being a Large L, museum-quality Liberal. I guess, because I believe in small government, personal accountability, environmental conservation and sound fiscal policy that I must be a large C, museum-quality Conservative.But, having written this, I'd gladly cross the aisle and shake your hand! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.3/446 - Release Date: 9/12/2006--No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.3/446 - Release Date: 9/12/2006___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switchThe genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them which we are missing. - Gamal Abdel Nasser ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
Re: [Biofuel] Disney
And that is not offensive? - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Disney This offends me. Perhaps the sand around your loved ones can be turned to glass as well.Thor Burfine wrote:snip My feeling on the middle east... we can drill for oil through glass ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Stolen Grease
*Clearly* label the drum and install a Lojack. :-) - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Stolen Grease 5 seconds and a bolt cutter... no match Thor Burfine wrote: has anybody thought of welding little chains to thier drums, say about 4ft long and locking them to the fence? hasp and padlock on the lid? better yet, drill hole through the bolt on the lid ring and pad lock the ring *From*: Jonathan Schearer [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent*: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:53 AM *To*: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject*: [Biofuel] Stolen Grease Well, it finally happened to me. I had a 30 gallon steel drum full of waste grease behind the local pizzeria taken on me the other day. I live in a small town where things like this don't happen-or do they? I originally had the owner's permission to keep it there-right next to the large commercial grease dumpster. The agreement he made with me was that he would keep filling the 30 gallon drum until it was full and the rest he would put into the commercial dumpster if I could not get it processed fast enough. He asked me if I could provide a metal container because he preferred to pour his grease hot out of the fryer into the container and the plastic jugs would not work. I did and it was working out nicely. If anyone asked about it, he would tell them that it was his and for his use, since it was on his property. I was driving to work yesterday and noticed it was not there. That night, I went in and asked him if he knew where it was. He said that he thought that I had taken it and didn't think anything of it. He told me that the commercial grease hauler is bringing him a new bulk container with locks on it because they are experiencing more and more grease theft. The owner does not particulary like to pay for grease disposal, but does not have many options since he wants to do the right thing when it comes to disposal. I stated that I most likely would not put another metal drum behind his eatery because this would happen again. He agreed. Even though it is more work for him, the owner told me he would pour off the grease once cooled back into the 5 gal. polys that it comes in for me. This will work out better for me anyways. I just don't understand why people think they can take something that does not belong to them without asking first. Most people get upset when you take something without asking, but if you ask first, many times they will give it to you. Thanks to the members here for listening to me vent some frustration. Jonathan. All-new Yahoo! Mail http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43256/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta- Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] More airline problems...
NEW YORK -- A public school teacher was arrested today at John F. Kennedy International Airport as he attempted to board a flight while in possession of a ruler, a protractor, a set square, a slide rule and a calculator. At a morning press conference, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said he believes the man is a member of the notorious Al-gebra movement. He did not identify the man, who has been charged by the FBI with carrying weapons of math instruction. Al-gebra is a problem for us, Gonzales said. They desire solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in search of absolute values. They use secret code names like 'x' and 'y' and refer to themselves as 'unknowns', but we have determined they belong to a common denominator of the axis of medieval with coordinates in every country. As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say, 'There are 3 sides to every triangle'. When asked to comment on the arrest, George W. Bush said, If God had wanted us to have better weapons of math instruction, He would have given us more fingers and toes. Aides told reporters they could not recall a more intelligent or profound statement made by the President. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] mildly OT, Repower mid-80 ford pu
http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=Number=715114page=0view=collapsedsb=1o=14fpart=1 http://oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?s=04f71ccb549b6e975bf5b54cb2d59ce2threadid=3524 http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/digests/FSJ-2250/fsj-2278.txt ___ Heisenberg may have slept here If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my xe. --Abraham Lincoln ___ - Original Message - From: Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] mildly OT, Repower mid-80 ford pu Zeke Yewdall wrote: Sounds like a great idea to me. I bet you'd loose some top end power on the highway, but gain some low end torque, and probably get 50% better mileage too. I've heard of someone doing this in a toyota pickup (wonder how they handled the weight of a 300TD in that?), and said it had much more power than the toyota diesel (2.4 liter turbo), and much quieter as well. You'd use the same transmission as in there now, or put the 4wd transfer case on the back of the 4speed auto from the Merc? The mercedes automatic wasn't ever really a very good transmission, kinda soft, and this one is quite old. The ford manual is a granny gear 1st 4speed, so I'd rather keep it. This is/will remain a 'work truck'. I sure would like to keep the ford xmission. It seems, that the OM617 turbo diesel is just about the most ubiquitous engine of that type in the US. They are all over the place, and can be had for reasonably little money. I'm a little suprised there isn't more info about swapping this engine around. thanx again. Z ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Are your free plans being sold on eBay?
Keith, Ebay has some strongly written policies on copyright infringement. I would start with this link: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/questions/vero-ended-item.html My wife sells quite a few items on ebay and has seen this policy recently being used quite effectively! More information: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/copyrights.html http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/replica-counterfeit.html --Randall Charlotte, NC ___ Heisenberg may have slept here If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my xe. --Abraham Lincoln ___ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 4:11 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Are your free plans being sold on eBay? I keep getting complaints about this guy who sells bits of the JtF website on eBay. He's not the only one. Quite a few people have reported him and complained about him, but it doesn't work, eBay won't cooperate, they're pretty much complicit. Maybe he could be put out of action but it would be a lot of work, and someone else would replace him soon enough. He doesn't actually do us any direct injury and we're too busy to chase him, so we grin and bear it. There's one born every minute, especially on eBay, and probably one yllar17 born every minute too, but we're more interested in the other 259 people born every minute. Deb Suran sent me further information, she's into hounding the guy, and good luck to her. This is his name: George Powell 15596 Grape Creek Rd Danville, IL (217) 443-3934 Deb said this: I'm writing to let you know than an eBay vendor, yllar17, has been stealing free plans available on the internet, including yours (and mine), and selling them on eBay as his own original copyrighted work. For years. Here's what he currently has for sale at eBay, all stolen: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZyllar17 How did I find you? eBay refused to kick him off their service permanently, and instead only briefly suspended him after I caught him selling our plans twice. So I purchased a copy of this thief's CD collection of all the plans he's selling, copied text from the PDF files on the CD into google, and found your website. In an afternoon of searching I found 10 websites that originally published some of the files he currently has for sale. I have attached the PDFs of your stolen plans from that CD to this e-mail. Four whole eBay pages of ripped off plans at the link. Check it out, maybe you're there too. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Torture and/or Nuking Iran -- was Re: Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran
Keith, My point is not that people should not try to learn and do what is right and correct...it is that you CANNOT hold someone responsible for something that they have no CONTROL over. That is by its very definition, unfair. That is middle ages thinking at best. To be blunt, I generally do not care what someone from another country thinks of my country when I know that their country is doing much of the same thing that they complain about my country doing. They are just being hypocrites--knowingly or unknowingly--and are usually just ignored. You say over and over that information has been out there for people to gleen for years and years. True. However, how many people prior to the Internet, had the ability to search for and VERIFY information with the ease of today? 30 years ago, you would have needed access to a well equipped library with a large microfilm/microfiche archive, the time to browse for the relevant articles, read and then understand them. I would venture a guess that most people simply did not have 10 to 20 hours a week to simply read everything of interest to find something that may not be right in the world. That is where the modern media has done its disservice...the help by condensing this tremendous amount of information into something digestable to the average person. The PROBLEM as you have pointed out repeatedly is that there is a BIAS in the spin/digestion that is generally unhealthy and untrue. So, when you lambast people for not investigating enough, please temper your ire with understanding that most people are not by nature researchers. It takes a special type of person to be able to read, categorize, understand and verify large amounts of information. There surely is no way of knowing something if you don't want to know it. The opinion manufacturing industry doesn't really hide things as much as render them uninteresting, the eye slides away, the ear goes deaf, the attention wanders. It works very well. But not on everybody. Not everybody is deaf to the truth, not everybody swallows the lies. Why's that? How do some people - many people - manage to stay awake and alert and undeceived? That has a bearing on complicity, don't you think? Keep in mind that desire does not always play a key role in knowing something. Simply put, you do not know what you do not know. You can spend your entire life learning new things and have no time to DO anything with that knowledge. This does not excuse everything, but it explains some things.It is quite true that everyone is not deaf to the truth...hence this list and the great work you have done in nutruring, maintaining and helping it grow along with JTF. Let me say Thanks right now...it has been very helpful for me personally, and quite a few people that I have pointed towards it. You also say that asking people that are trying to help if their actions are effective is heartless. I disagree wholeheartedly. If people do not stop and reassess what they are doing periodically, they risk causing more problems then they solve. That is the heart of learning and progress. There are other questions that I would ask you, but would do so off-list. But, someone who is trying to help, should never mind someone asking them questions, including is it working? My activities have not been as far-ranging and involved as your's...but I have spent quite a few years trying to get people to THINK and consider options to just believing everything they see, hear or read. I can bring up even more topics ranging from the purely ecomonic, to the environmental and finally to conspiracy related items in this mailing list, but it would be out of place here. You have done a good job balancing this list, and that is important. It is more than ok to ask someone what they are doing with their life. Most recently, me and my wife have started trying to expand our effort to help some orphans in Ukraine and Russia. My wife is Ukrainian and she and some of her family (in Russia and Ukraine) have suffered directly from Chernobyl explosion and other problems. I do not think that it is helpful to try to to see who can out help other people...nor do I think it is helpful or polite to blame people for the actions of others. People have different abilities and capabilities to help...I wish I had more time, but our 15 month-old son needs our attention as well, and he doesn't yet (but he will) understand why daddy needs to read for a while and not play with him. In the end, it is the DESIRE to help that will save us all...without the desire, nothing else can happen. I know that there will be at least ONE more person in the world that understands...and he can help teach others. --Randall Charlotte, NC ___ Heisenberg may have slept here If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my xe
Re: [Biofuel] Interesting article on Slashdot
It would be nice to see BioButanol get a boost in the US since we cannot seem to get the same cars available elsewhere in the world. I would enjoy the little Opel diesel that I rented while in Barcelona... :-) -- http://politics.slashdot.org/politics/06/05/09/0355211.shtml Urging Congress to Cancel the Ethanol Tariff Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Tuesday May 09, @06:04AM from the falling-on-deaf-ears dept. reporter writes The Wall Street Journal is urging Washington to discard the 54-cent-per-gallon tariff on imported ethanol. This tariff is effectively a subsidy for corn-based ethanol produced in the USA. Yet, producing ethanol from corn is highly inefficient and consumes 1 unit of energy for each 1.3 units of energy that burning ethanol provides. By contrast, ethanol derived from sugarcane (which is the sole source of ethanol in Brazil) yields 8.3 units of energy. Sugercane is about 7 times more efficient than corn. Some studies even show that corn yields only 0.8 unit of energy, resulting in a net loss of energy. - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:37 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Interesting article on Slashdot http://politics.slashdot.org/politics/06/05/09/0355211.shtml ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Torture and/or Nuking Iran -- was Re: Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran
Keith, You said: We've just dealt with this, in the torture thread. Please go and read it. You are complicit. What are you doing about it? You're obliged to be aware of what your government does abroad with your tax money, and if you do nothing to counter it you are complicit. What other people or other governments do is beside the point. The only exception is if you live under a totalitarian dictatorship, then you're not complicit because you're just a helpless slave. By your statement, in order for someone to even have a chance to avoid the responsibility for any bad actions by their government (ie. pollution, torture or nuking a country), it seems that they will need to be a person who: 1) Is capable of being aware of EVERYTHING that the government does domestically and internationally. To do this, you will need to posess God-like omniscience (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omniscience) since you will need to be aware of all actions performed by every single one of the MILLIONS of people that are connected with the US Federal government alone -- currently almost 2 million employees if you ignore the Military and the Postal Service. (http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs041.htm)How many more work for the various State and Local governments. How many people work for quasi-governmental institutions that have an effect on how the government operates? You quoted at least one http://www.pipa.org/. 2) Is able to influence ALL of those MILLIONS of people, or possess the knowledge to choose which of the MILLIONS of people you will need to influence to force all the remaining people that you cannot influence (time, distance, numbers of people to speak with, whatever) to do what you wish them to do. 3) Possess the knowledge of the correct thing to do, and how to communicate this to all of the people that you will need to influence to make what you want to happen occur in the manner that you desire. --- or --- Is it ok for someone to just complain about the actions of the government to avoid being labeled complicit, or do they have to actually DO something? If they have to do something, does it have to be effective? If so, how effective does their action have to be? How closely related to the government in question can someone be, and avoid responsibility for that government's actions? Are other countries that benefit from the actions of your government responsible for the actions of your government? If so, are the people of those other countries then also responsible for your governments actions?? What if you don't want to give the government money, but they take it under the threat of death or imprisonment? So...let me ask you personally: What are you doing? How effective have your actions been? What will you do in the future to become more effective? When do you become blameless? Are you aware of how every single dollar is spent by our government? --Randall Charlotte, NC ___ Heisenberg may have slept here If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my xe. --Abraham Lincoln ___ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 5:20 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran Hello Mike Why're you so doubtful about it? Sure, it's always good to check, but it's well in line with what usually happens, as people are saying. For instance (from the list archives): http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/20263 War on Iraq: The World According to a Bush Voter October 21, 2004 A new survey reveals that Bush supporters choose to keep faith in their leader rather than face reality... But here is the truly astonishing part: as many or more Bush supporters hold those beliefs today than they did several months ago. In other words, more people believe the claims today -- after the publication of a series of well-publicized official government reports that debunked both notions. That poll was conducted by University of Maryland's Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) and Knowledge Networks. Here's the poll report itself: http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/IraqRealities_Oct04/IraqRealiti es%20Oct04%20rpt.pdf Then there's this: Results of previous PIPA/Knowledge Networks poll [May 04]: - A 57% majority believed Iraq was either directly involved in carrying out the 9/11 attacks or had provided substantial support to al-Qaeda - 82% either said that experts mostly agree Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda or experts are evenly divided on the question - 45% believe that evidence that Iraq was supporting al Qaeda has been found - 60% believe that just before the war Iraq either had weapons of mass destruction or a major program for developing them - 65% said
Re: [Biofuel] Are Americans torturers or supporters of torture?
Hakan, To answer your question: No. Your questions imply that ALL Americans have proof about systematic and long-term torture, and quite simply I do not believe that you have the evidence to support that assertion. What other countries have been reported to and are listed with Amnesty International as having employed torture?Are you going to issue the same indictment of the citizens of those countries as well? Aren't ALL member nations in the UN responsible for not forcing ALL countries to stop using torture? Using your assertion, aren't the citizens of all those countries responsible as well? Yes, I know it is easy to say that the US has a veto on the Security Council...but why not simply change the system?? Sitting back and just saying that they cannot is the same as the comparison to 1930's and 1940's Nazi Germany. Simply having a vote does not imply responsibilty, much less confer the ability to force the action (or non-action) of a government.This does not excuse torture...but nor does it solve it either. I believe you need to first figure out what makes humans CAPABLE of torture then you can address the REASONS that humans employ torture. --Randall ___ Heisenberg may have slept here If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my xe. --Abraham Lincoln ___ - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 1:19 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Are Americans torturers or supporters of torture? US has not stopped torture, according to Amnesty http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=BreakingstoryId=1519912 Who belive that they stopped? It casts a shadow over all Americans, who are responsible for their government. At least republicans are clearly to identify with what's going on. This especially elected representatives, who refuse to take a stand and stop their support of this administration. Why is there so little public actions to get rid of the current government? A massive rejection of its methods, would make them resign, but it is no signs of it. No actions are the same as compliancy, Americans of today, must have a very good understanding and sympathy for the Germans in the 1930's. They only let it happen also. Was Vietnam not enough, or should future generations have to feel more guilt of their ancestors behavior. Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Hell on Earth
It will be interesting when the entire story comes out, if ever, and we can know the total real costs of this accident/disaster. My wife is Ukrainian and was about 8 years old when the reactor blew. She lived in Sumy (east-north-east of Kiev on the Russian border) when the accident happened. She has relatives that were involved in the evacuation who are suffering to this day. One uncle can hardly eat, and will likely die from complications not directly related to his radiation exposure...and not be counted as a loss from the accident...just poor diet or other causes. My wife lost her eyesight for over a week starting a few days after the reactor blew up. The authorities told her that it was unrelated and not to worry. Even to this day in Kiev and other parts of Ukraine, there are times when everyone knows that the levels of radioactivity are higher than normal as it becomes difficult to breathe...yet nothing happens... --Randall ___ Heisenberg may have slept here If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my xe. --Abraham Lincoln ___ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 6:00 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Hell on Earth http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0426-01.htm Published on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 by the Guardian / UK Hell on Earth Chernobyl was the world's worst environmental disaster. Twenty years on, John Vidal reports on the clean-up, the false medical records, the communities that refused to leave and the continuing cost to people and planet by John Vidal Twenty years ago today, Konstantin Tatuyan, a Ukrainian radio engineer, was horrified when Reactor No 4 at Chernobyl nuclear power complex exploded, caught fire, and for the next 10 days spewed the equivalent of 400 Hiroshima bombs' worth of radioactivity across 150,000 sq miles of Europe and beyond. He was just married, and he and his young family lived in the town of Chernobyl, just a few miles from the reactor. Candles burn in front of a Chernobyl monument during a remembrance ceremony at Mitino cemetery outside of Moscow April 26, 2006. Mourners bearing candles marked the 20th anniversary of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster on Wednesday, honouring those who died from its effects as leaders pledged to ensure it would never happen again. REUTER/Thomas Peter Like 120,000 people, the family was evacuated, but Tatuyan volunteered to become a liquidator, to help with the clean up, believing that his knowledge of radiation could save not just him but many of the 200,000 young soldiers and others who were rushed in from all over the Soviet Union. We felt we had to do it, he says. Who else, if not us, would do it? Tatuyan spent the next seven years in charge of 5,000 mostly young army reservists - drafted in from Azerbaijan, Lithuania, Chechnya, Kazakhstan and elsewhere in what was the Soviet Union - working 22 days on, eight days off, digging great holes, demolishing villages, dumping high-level waste, monitoring hot spots, testing the water, cleaning railway lines and roads, decontaminating ground and travelling throughout some of the most radioactive regions of Ukraine, Belarus and southern Russia. He survived the worst environment disaster in history, he says, because he knew the danger and could monitor the radioactivity that varied from yard to yard and from village to village depending on where the plume descended to ground level, and on where the deadly bits of graphite from the core of the reactor were carried by the wind. He took precautions but he also kept meticulous - albeit illegal - records of his own accumulating exposure. Every year the authorities told him he was fit for duty, and when he left Chernobyl they gave him a letter saying he had received just under the safe lifetime dose of radiation. He knew he had received more than five times that amount. What he saw in those years, he says, appalled him: young men dying for want of the simplest information about exposure to radiation; the wide-scale falsification of medical histories by the Soviet army and the disappearance of people's records so the state would not have to compensate them; the wholesale looting of evacuated houses and abandoned churches; the haste and carelessness with which the concrete sarcophagus was erected over the stricken reactor; and, above all, the horror of seeing land almost twice the size of Britain contaminated, with thousands of villages made uninhabitable. It was sometimes surreal, he says. He had people beg him to leave their homes or villages contaminated because that would guarantee them a pension; he recalls how several carriages of radioactive animal carcasses travelled for five years around the Soviet Union being rejected by every state, returning
[Biofuel] hydrogen and biodiesel
I was reading a research paper that indicated that loading vegetable oil with Hydrogen would have much the same effect as using an acid for transesterfication. If this is the case, would it be more cost effective to use Hydrogen? It seems steps could be eliminated or made simpler. Does anyone have experience or information relating to this? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] castor oil
I think I remember hearing that Castor oil was used like like motor oil in lawn mowers during oil fuel rationing in WWII. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal Fat
Animal fat (tallow) has a different chemical make-up than vegetable oil. You need to do much more purification. You get soap (glycerin) like results with vegetable oil, just not as much. I think that if you use a stronger caustic agent to separate mixture components, you may have more success. Randall ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal Fat
I stand corrected, sorry to give bad information. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless
Could you cut and paste the article? I do not like signing up on more websites than is necessary. Thanks! Randall Charlotte, NC ___ Heisenberg may have slept here If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my xe. --Abraham Lincoln ___ - Original Message - From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 12:29 AM Subject: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless http://qconline.com/archives/qco/sections.cgi?prcss=displayid=284986 check this, if it doesnt give you the impression that the forces of law are bad i dont know what will. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Global Warming
Here is an interesting article on the BBC website...kinda helps reinforce the "...damned if you do, damned if you don't..." feeling a lot of people have... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4880328.stm --Randall Charlotte, NC ___ Heisenberg may have slept here "If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." --Abraham Lincoln ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] In French ?
I would highly recommend also using: http://world.altavista.com/ I would highly recommend also using an online translator such as AltaVista's Babelfish (http://world.altavista.com/). I have used it frequently for Russian to English, and it seems to have no problem with English to French when you use the Translate a web page option. --Randall Charlotte, NC - Original Message - From: Sam Critchley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] In French ? Hi, Biodiesel is often called diester in French. Here's a French-language Wikipedia entry with some links to biodiesel in Switzerland at the bottom: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diester I also suggest doing an advanced search on Google for French-language pages containing the words biodiesel or diester. Thanks, Sam On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:01:00 +0100, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Olivier I have some friends in the French side of Switzerland, Geneva, who are interested to try to make Biodiesel. They already have a car (a LandRover I beleive) running on SVO. But they do not speak (nor read) english. Do you know by any chance a good web site where they can find information on how to produce in French ? I don't. Maybe there isn't one. If some of the French-speaking list members wanted to translate the Journey to Forever Biofuels section into French we'd be happy to host it, like the Spanish-language site. Regards Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Thanks, Olivier ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Sam Critchley [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** A2B - the new location-based search engine. See http://www.a2b.cc for details. Great for GPSers! *** ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] acetone
Stephan, The car uses petrol /gasoline. It is not the model that uses LPG or other flex fuels. --Randall Charlotte, NC - Original Message - From: stwyk To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 3:41 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] acetone Hello Randall, A quick question if I may. I'd just like to confirm that the by gas you talk about petrol. Here in S.A. gas is gas(LPG). Are you useing gas(LPG) or petrol? Stephan South Africa. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of ROY WashbishSent: 21 November 2005 07:55To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] acetone Please allow me to butt in here. I used 2 1/2 oz Acetone per 10 gal of gas in both my cars for two tank fulls. What I found, as I see it, was that the system got clean and my mileage improved. After I went back to just gas, same station, same pump, the improvement was still there. My conclusion: Acetone is a very inexpensive fuel system cleaner. Itwill only improve mileage if it can clean the fuel system. So, there you have my two cents. Roy Washbish Randall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried several tanks in a 1997 Ford Crown Victoria P71 (retired police cruiser) running about 2oz per 10 gallons. I know it wasn't very scientific (strict controls on amounts, driving conditions, etc) and I found almost no difference in my fuel economy.4/30/2005 83757 1 17.674 2.39 93 4 yes 0.05658 2 oz/10 gallons, initial acetone addition5/6/2005 83964 207 10.7 2.39 93 2 yes 19.34579 1/2 tank of gas to fill5/26/2005 84284 320 17.94 2.29 93 3.5 yes 17.83724 frequent leadfoot driving, mostly city, mostly 70F+6/11/2005 84605 321 18.1 2.27 93 3.5 yes 17.73481 running the ac frequently now6/18/2005 84983 378 16.9 2.15 93 3.5 yes 22.36686 trip to the mountains - MIL6/30/2005 85268 285 17.1 2.32 93 0 yes 16.7 no acetone this tank - still MIL7/8/2005 85596 328 17.4 2.29 93 0 yes 18.85057 no acetone this tank - still MIL7/18/2005 85899 303 16.67 2.27 93 2 yes 18.17636 partial highway, part city7/20/2005 86241 342 14.84 2.37 93 0 yes 23.04582 mostly highway, mountains, slow rain travel--RandallCharlotte, NC- Original Message - From: "Alt.EnergyNetwork" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <BIOFUEL@SUSTAINABLELISTS.ORG>Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 1:51 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] acetoneHi Derick,thanks for the update. Anyone else trying acetone?regardstallex ---Original Message--- From: Derick Giorchino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone Sent: 20 Nov '05 05:03 I have used the acetone on dino fuel with 2.5 gpm increase I also have tried it on bio and found a net loss of about the same 2.5 gpm but I only tried it one time at 2 oz per 10 gal on both fuels. Derick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alt.EnergyNetwork Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 1:06 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone Hi, Yes I was wondering about the acetone experiments also. As far as I know a few people on 2 or 3 other lists were going to document their experiments. Anybody hear of any updates? tallex Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ---Original Message--- From: bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone Sent: 18 Nov '05 20:47 while we are on this thread, might we wander back a few months to a related issue? That is the claim that addition of small amounts of acetone to both compression and spark ignition engines would result in dramatic increases in fuel efficiency, as much as 35 % increases claimed by some. http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/ Anybody have any well-controlled results to report? robert luis rabello wrote: William Adams wrote: David, Thanks for the correction of air intake. Agreed, it would be good to look at the beast. Can the anecdotes can be believ
Re: [Biofuel] acetone
I tried several tanks in a 1997 Ford Crown Victoria P71 (retired police cruiser) running about 2oz per 10 gallons. I know it wasn't very scientific (strict controls on amounts, driving conditions, etc) and I found almost no difference in my fuel economy. 4/30/2005 83757 1 17.674 2.39 93 4 yes 0.056582 oz/10 gallons, initial acetone addition 5/6/2005 83964 207 10.7 2.39 93 2 yes 19.34579 1/2 tank of gas to fill 5/26/2005 84284 320 17.94 2.29 93 3.5 yes 17.83724 frequent leadfoot driving, mostly city, mostly 70F+ 6/11/2005 84605 321 18.1 2.27 93 3.5 yes 17.73481running the ac frequently now 6/18/2005 84983 378 16.9 2.15 93 3.5 yes 22.36686trip to the mountains - MIL 6/30/2005 85268 285 17.1 2.32 93 0 yes 16.7no acetone this tank - still MIL 7/8/2005 85596 328 17.4 2.29 93 0 yes 18.85057no acetone this tank - still MIL 7/18/2005 85899 303 16.67 2.27 93 2 yes 18.17636partial highway, part city 7/20/2005 86241 342 14.84 2.37 93 0 yes 23.04582mostly highway, mountains, slow rain travel --Randall Charlotte, NC - Original Message - From: Alt.EnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] acetone Hi Derick, thanks for the update. Anyone else trying acetone? regards tallex ---Original Message--- From: Derick Giorchino [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone Sent: 20 Nov '05 05:03 I have used the acetone on dino fuel with 2.5 gpm increase I also have tried it on bio and found a net loss of about the same 2.5 gpm but I only tried it one time at 2 oz per 10 gal on both fuels. Derick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alt.EnergyNetwork Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 1:06 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone Hi, Yes I was wondering about the acetone experiments also. As far as I know a few people on 2 or 3 other lists were going to document their experiments. Anybody hear of any updates? tallex Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ---Original Message--- From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone Sent: 18 Nov '05 20:47 while we are on this thread, might we wander back a few months to a related issue? That is the claim that addition of small amounts of acetone to both compression and spark ignition engines would result in dramatic increases in fuel efficiency, as much as 35 % increases claimed by some. http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/ Anybody have any well-controlled results to report? robert luis rabello wrote: William Adams wrote: David, Thanks for the correction of air intake. Agreed, it would be good to look at the beast. Can the anecdotes can be believed ? And, is the concept for real? The concept of supplemental hydrogen injection IS a valid one. Whether or not this can be accomplished with any real gains in power and fuel economy using an onboard electrolyzer makes me very skeptical. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] acetone
Ooops...sorry...forgot to paste the column headers. :-) Date Mileage Distance Gallons Price Octane Oz Acetone Full tank? MPG Comments 83756 4/30/2005 83757 1 17.674 2.39 93 4 yes 0.05658 2 oz/10 gallons, initial acetone addition 5/6/2005 83964 207 10.7 2.39 93 2 yes 19.34579 1/2 tank of gas to fill 5/26/2005 84284 320 17.94 2.29 93 3.5 yes 17.83724 frequent leadfoot driving, mostly city, mostly 70F+ 6/11/2005 84605 321 18.1 2.27 93 3.5 yes 17.73481 running the ac frequently now 6/18/2005 84983 378 16.9 2.15 93 3.5 yes 22.36686 trip to the mountains - MIL 6/30/2005 85268 285 17.1 2.32 93 0 yes 16.7 no acetone this tank - still MIL 7/8/2005 85596 328 17.4 2.29 93 0 yes 18.85057 no acetone this tank - still MIL 7/18/2005 85899 303 16.67 2.27 93 2 yes 18.17636 partial highway, part city 7/20/2005 86241 342 14.84 2.37 93 0 yes 23.04582 mostly highway, mountains, slow rain travel --Randall Charlotte, NC - Original Message - From: Alt.EnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] acetone Hi Derick, thanks for the update. Anyone else trying acetone? regards tallex ---Original Message--- From: Derick Giorchino [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone Sent: 20 Nov '05 05:03 I have used the acetone on dino fuel with 2.5 gpm increase I also have tried it on bio and found a net loss of about the same 2.5 gpm but I only tried it one time at 2 oz per 10 gal on both fuels. Derick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alt.EnergyNetwork Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 1:06 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone Hi, Yes I was wondering about the acetone experiments also. As far as I know a few people on 2 or 3 other lists were going to document their experiments. Anybody hear of any updates? tallex Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ---Original Message--- From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power- now acetone Sent: 18 Nov '05 20:47 while we are on this thread, might we wander back a few months to a related issue? That is the claim that addition of small amounts of acetone to both compression and spark ignition engines would result in dramatic increases in fuel efficiency, as much as 35 % increases claimed by some. http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/ Anybody have any well-controlled results to report? robert luis rabello wrote: William Adams wrote: David, Thanks for the correction of air intake. Agreed, it would be good to look at the beast. Can the anecdotes can be believed ? And, is the concept for real? The concept of supplemental hydrogen injection IS a valid one. Whether or not this can be accomplished with any real gains in power and fuel economy using an onboard electrolyzer makes me very skeptical. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] I am Not A Christian-was This isn't the real America, by JC
You are referring God and His Laws in the OT versus The Son of God and His Teachings in the NT? - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] I am Not A Christian-was This isn't the real America, by JC Well, the God of the Old Testament and the God of the new are somewhat different. The God of Abraham and Isaac seems a little grumpier than the one I was raised with. robert luis rabello wrote: Appal Energy wrote: Oh, I don't know about that Robert. So, we have the tough love Jesus who would assassinate national leaders, torture unknown enemies and drop bombs on entire civilian populations in order to bring them closer to no, not god..., westernized democracy. That alone should be enough to convince you and anyone who is serious that people who advocate such actions are NOT Christians. It's similar to being pregnant, in that Christianity is an either / or proposition. Follow Christ, or follow the world. You can tell who these people are following by their deeds and attitudes. Then we have the historical Jesus who would let each individual's heart convict him or herself. As both are worlds apart, they either must be two separate deities or Jesus was a schizophrenic who managed to pull the wool over everyone's eyes for the past two millenia But that latter possibility can't really be considered in all honesty, now can it? (?ti nac rO) Support of the former premise comes from the Jerry Falwells, Pat Robertsons, James Dobsons and George Bushs of the world who were obviously granted their authority by God. But when the dots are connected amongst these gurus, it becomes pretty obvious that their god or their Jesus isn't the one out of the New King James version. Here's a possibility that you haven't considered: The leaders you've outlined above are controlled by satanic forces using the cloak of religion to deceive their followers. This kind of thing has been going on as long as religion has existed! Jesus himself had pretty harsh words for hypocrites like them. Given the common belief that God makes no mistakes and inevitably cannot be wrong, then their god surely must exist because he or she put them in these positions of power - surely to do his or her work. And given that everyone already knows that a god of compassion has been in existence since time began, the logical conclusion is that there must be two gods - their god and everyone else's. So let's be honest Robert. Since we all know that God is in control, then let's stop trying to find excuses and assessing blame against what some would like to call conniving, manipulative, deceiving humans under the spell of evil powers for what is obviously the work of at least one of two gods. I think we are agreeing on the same thing from two differing perspectives, Todd. (This is often the case between you and I.) I don't excuse the nefarious behavior of pseudo-Christians--people who claim God's name yet deny his transforming power--it disgusts me as much as it does you. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] diesel vs. gasoline fuels bike commuting
I have one question that comes from a long time understanding (or perhaps misconception) concerning diesel v. gasoline... 1) Diesel has a higher energy content per gallon than gasoline (confirmed in email below) 2) Diesel is not as highly refined as gasoline (confirmed in email below) 3) You get *MORE* diesel per gallon of crude oil than gasoline since gasoline is more highly refined, thus removing more actual content from the crude oil. (seems to be the logical conclusion of #1 and #2) 4) Wasn't it 2000 or 2001 that VW had the lowest pollution (non-hybird, non-electric) vehicle being sold in the USA ... the Golf Diesel? And despite being the lowest polluting, California banned its sale because it was a diesel!! If #3 is not true, then can you explain how it actually takes more crude oil per gallon of refined fuel to produce diesel than gasoline? Also, what is the energy input per gallon of gasoline for the additives that are used (detergents, anti-knock formulations, ethanol, etc) compared to those added to diesel? Thanks, Randall Charlotte, NC - Original Message - From: MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 12:05 PM Subject: [Biofuel] diesel vs. gasoline fuels bike commuting Grist Magazine 11.07.05 http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=19847 Ask Umbra: Topping it off On diesel vs. standard gasoline cars; plus, bike commuting Q. Dear Umbra, I've always heard bad things about diesel fuel. However, I know someone who has a diesel VW that gets 50 miles to the gallon. I'm wondering if you could do a cost-benefit analysis for me. I know I can't afford a hybrid anytime soon, and was wondering if it would be better to buy a used diesel car that gets excellent gas mileage or a regular used car that gets in the 30 to 40 mpg range. Anne Nelson, N.H. A. Dearest Anne, Unless you can get alternative diesel fuel, stick with a standard gasoline car. Regular readers will predict my research maneuver here: we go right back to my mad crush on the Union of Concerned Scientists. (Ooh la la!) Their Clean Vehicles site is a hotbed of romance, where we can find such steamy novellas as The Diesel Dilemma: Diesel's Role in the Race for Clean Cars. I learned quite a bit from this page-turner. Here's a summary: Diesel engines go farther on a gallon of fuel than standard gasoline engines because of their design, and because of the higher energy density of a gallon of diesel fuel. But it takes more oil to manufacture a gallon of diesel than a gallon of standard gasoline, and the production and refining processes for diesel produce more heat- trapping gases. So when you're considering the relative merits of diesel and non-diesel cars (like your friend's VW and your regular alternative), UCS suggests knocking the mpg estimates for the diesel car down by 20 percent to account for those impacts. Since a diesel vehicle will also cost you more, you'll get more bang for your buck from an efficient gasoline car if you're concerned about fending off global warming, UCS says. And the nasty rumors about diesel are true: It's less refined than gasoline, aka dirtier. Diesel cars emit substantially more particulate matter and NOx, both of which are serious air pollutants and health hazards. Current passenger diesel engines are more polluting per mile driven than gasoline models. And no diesels currently make it into the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy's Green Book. Now, using biodiesel will improve this situation, and remove you from U.S. oil policy as much as is possible in a passenger vehicle. If biodiesel is available nearby, you will still need to closely examine whether a diesel is the car for you: Given your budget, which models can you actually afford? What is their mpg? Will the engine block need to be plugged in during the winter months, and is this a deterrent for you? If you would like to understand the details better or hear about the future of diesel regulations and technologies, read UCS's report [PDF] or report summary [PDF], which contain shocking plot revelations. For example, Europe is not perfect. In fact, though assumers such as myself may have thought, [Lots of diesels in Europe] + [Green Europe beats stupid U.S.] = [Diesel good], this is an erroneous leap. The true equation is: [Euro-subsidized diesel] + [Mediocre Euro tailpipe regs] = [Diesel still bad]. Mathematically, Umbra Q. Dear Umbra, So what about bike commuting? Is it safe? Is it good? Is it encouraged? P.K. Borzo St. Paul, Minn. A. Dearest P.K., Yes, yes, yes. Lungwise, biking is at least as safe as driving, if not more so. It's true, as many readers pointed out after my previous column, that we breathe more heavily when bicycling than driving. But the scientists thought of that. In general, we are not worse off biking in regular old city traffic
Re: [Biofuel] There's no proof of global warming
What did the photos show? Appal Energy wrote: Actually Jerry, Just go back to photos of Earth during the airline shutdowns after September 11th and you'll see precisely (or rather so) what the contribution of the airline industry is to global polution. No need to go back to the Apollo years for photos, especially since emissions have been curbed considerably (in some regions) since then. Anything short of what happened on September 11th that throttles the airline industry to a permanent standstill is in the best interests of all living things. Todd Swearingen Jerry Eyers wrote: Hi All, Yeah, right. Someone ought to tell Mr. Limbaugh that Rita was a tropical storm two days ago. It's entered the Gulf and is now at Catagory 2. It's heading west now and will probably increase in ferocity in the next 24-36 hours. The water temperaturee in the gulf is still above 30C. Let's all burn more Dino since none of this is connected. Tom Well, technically speaking, he is right, there is no direct evidence, only circumstantial evidence. That said, however, there have been MANY convictions made on only circumstantial evidence!! All you really have to do is get into an airplane and try flying anywhere, and you will see the smokey crudd layer that exists over everything. Better yet, look at some space shots of the earth made by the space shuttle crews compaired to space shots made of the earth in the Apollo launches, and there is a BIG difference. Is it effecting weather?? Some say yes, some no. The current warming cycle (which is DEFINATELY happening) some say to be a normal heat cycle on a 26 year basis (some evidence for that) and that it will be followed by a cold cycle. There are arguments both ways, but nobody can argue against the murky-grey layer of crudd building up in the atmosphere! Jerry ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] alternative biodiesel process
Bob, Do you have the link for the correct patent? Or can you repost the relevant information? Thanks! Randall - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ws Sodium Methoxide MSDS (Sodium methylate)now alternative biodiesel process Joe, just a couple of comments. all kinds of claims can be made in patent applications, whether they work or not remains to be seen. the process is simple enough that one could try it and see. I did look at the patent application. some of their nomenclature is ambiguous, so it is not clear exactly what the products are claimed to be. BTW, the link you provided is unrelated. It discusses an enzyme catalyzed process. Joe Street wrote: Hi Bob; Well although I agree if it aint broke don't fix it but according to the original post this electrically activated process does not require methoxide. If it is true what a nice advancement. According to the original post IIRC it said the process involves adding 15% methanol and the reaction happens at 85 deg C while passing by a DC electrode of 3 to 5kv potential. Here I just found and copied the text out of a reply to a previous post. The subject line of the thread was Titanium (?) snip - Hi There: The following US patent offers making biodiesel by adding 15% MeOH and running the mix at 85degC past very high DC electrode to get 100% conversion - no glycerine, it is converted to 1,2,3-proprionate. The only other byproduct is hydrogen. Very cool, just a little scary. http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFp=1u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.htmlr=1f=Gl=50co1=ANDd=PG01s1=biodeiselOS=biodeiselRS=biodeisel http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 Ray snip- The patent reference does not appear to be the right one. Ray?? Joe bob allen wrote: Joe Street wrote: Howdy Pardner bob allen wrote: Howdy Joe (I just had to write Hey Joe before. its the lead to a Jimmy hendrix song I enjoy.) Yeah I get that a lot. When they ask me where you goin with that gun in your hand I say This is my rifle and this is my gun, This is for shooting and this is for fun Ok thanks for your corrections and information below. As a chemist you are a boon to this list. Have you given any thought to the other thread about using some form of energy input to make the esterification reaction go? Apparently it can be done with a high electric field strength and passing the oil/alcohol mixture at elevated temperature (and pressure I am guessing since the vapor pressure of methanol at 85 deg C must be above atmoshpere). I was also wondering about using intense UV light. Any thoughts? To drive a chemical reaction, you need two things: Provide activation energy to move the reaction along and some way to force any equilibrium in the direction you want it to go (for reversible processes). Traditional base catalyzed transesterification uses heat to provide the activation energy and excess methanol to drive the equilibrium further. Other ways to provide the activation energy may be possible, but I would question whether one process was any more cost effective or energy efficient than the traditional methods. To make a long story short, I haven't given it a lot of thought, but for your average Joe(ok another feeble pun), stick with what works. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Honda Civic MPG
Also, let's not forget to ask about wheel alignment...how are the tires wearing? Any pulling? --Randall - Original Message - From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Honda Civic MPG Point number 6 is a good one. I forgot to mention the one weakness of the Honda civic. There are little slider clips on the brake pads that get fouled up with brake dust and road grime. These must be cleaned regularly or the pads will not release properly when you release the brakes. I cleaned mine twice yearly and put some colloidal graphite on the clips before reassembly. I have a friend who did not do this and he actually overheated his front brake and warped a rotor on one side. Of course it would be affecting fuel mileage long before that happened. Joe Randall wrote: A few questions I would ask are: 1) Is the Civic automatic or manual transmission...if automatic, is it shifting correctly through all gears? If manual, is the clutch slipping? 2) Do you have the correct sized tires on the Civic? 3) Is the speedometer/odometer calibrated correctly? 4) How many miles are on the Civic? 5) Does the Civic use a lot of oil? 6) Do you know if the brakes are dragging on the Civic? How are the bearings and CV joints? 7) Do you have AC on the Civic? 10hp is not much to a 300hp engine, but it is a LOT to a 100HP motor!! --Randall Charlotte, NC - Original Message - From: Andy Karpay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 2:29 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Honda Civic MPG One thing not discussed previously is tire pressure. Low tire pressure can cause drastic loss of mpg. Just because an engine is 100 HP does not mean it needs to output the full 100HP. Once the vehicle is up to speed then, as previously stated, you only need to only overcome friction. The newer Caddie must be more efficient. Just because your engine is smaller does not automatically make it more efficient. Look at the old VW Bugs. In the '70s we thought them to be 'economical'. Now, those bugs only get 18-19 mpg. NDK I am 18 and not sure where I want to go to college. I might take the year off, as it is so late to be signing up. My question for everyone is, does anyone here know of some good colleges, preferably in the New England area, that have specialty biofuel(or related) courses? That would be a great help to me. Also, I wanted to add an amazing discovery/question that I found this past week. I drive a 1992 honda civic. I just did a full tune up, including O2 sensor, plugs, wires, cap rotor, etc. I drove from FL to MA, and i got about 23 MPG. This is in a 1.5L engine in a car weighing maybe 1600 lbs fully loaded with 106 base HP. I then drove my father's car south( a 2000 Cadillac Deville), from Ma to FL, and got an amazing surprise : his 4.6L American engine with about 300 base HP pulling a car weighing maybe 3000Lbs empty got 28MPG. I also found that in the city, his car's gas mileage was 18 MPG, where mine is about 13. Now I admit to owning a foot of lead, but does anyone know how this is possible as i drove both vehicles, and with regular gas? The calculations were correct for MPG. Any input would be appreciated. ~ Paul * ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Honda Civic MPG
A few questions I would ask are: 1) Is the Civic automatic or manual transmission...if automatic, is it shifting correctly through all gears? If manual, is the clutch slipping? 2) Do you have the correct sized tires on the Civic? 3) Is the speedometer/odometer calibrated correctly? 4) How many miles are on the Civic? 5) Does the Civic use a lot of oil? 6) Do you know if the brakes are dragging on the Civic? How are the bearings and CV joints? 7) Do you have AC on the Civic? 10hp is not much to a 300hp engine, but it is a LOT to a 100HP motor!! --Randall Charlotte, NC - Original Message - From: Andy Karpay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 2:29 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Honda Civic MPG One thing not discussed previously is tire pressure. Low tire pressure can cause drastic loss of mpg. Just because an engine is 100 HP does not mean it needs to output the full 100HP. Once the vehicle is up to speed then, as previously stated, you only need to only overcome friction. The newer Caddie must be more efficient. Just because your engine is smaller does not automatically make it more efficient. Look at the old VW Bugs. In the '70s we thought them to be 'economical'. Now, those bugs only get 18-19 mpg. NDK I am 18 and not sure where I want to go to college. I might take the year off, as it is so late to be signing up. My question for everyone is, does anyone here know of some good colleges, preferably in the New England area, that have specialty biofuel(or related) courses? That would be a great help to me. Also, I wanted to add an amazing discovery/question that I found this past week. I drive a 1992 honda civic. I just did a full tune up, including O2 sensor, plugs, wires, cap rotor, etc. I drove from FL to MA, and i got about 23 MPG. This is in a 1.5L engine in a car weighing maybe 1600 lbs fully loaded with 106 base HP. I then drove my father's car south( a 2000 Cadillac Deville), from Ma to FL, and got an amazing surprise : his 4.6L American engine with about 300 base HP pulling a car weighing maybe 3000Lbs empty got 28MPG. I also found that in the city, his car's gas mileage was 18 MPG, where mine is about 13. Now I admit to owning a foot of lead, but does anyone know how this is possible as i drove both vehicles, and with regular gas? The calculations were correct for MPG. Any input would be appreciated. ~ Paul * ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build your home ?
Try these links: http://www.papercrete.com/ http://www.rammedearthworks.com/ http://www.deatech.com/cobcottage/ http://www.adobebuilder.com/ http://www.earthship.org/ http://www.touchtheearthranch.com/tirestart.htm --Randy Charlotte, NC - Original Message - From: Josephine Wee To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 3:13 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build your home ? Ms. Nancy Canning We are interested in how one builds a house with recycled tires, dirt and stucco. where canI find a website showing this? \ thanks. - Original Message - From: Nancy Canning To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build your home ? what about recycled tires. filled with dirt,then covered with stucco. Makes a mighty good building and is being used all over the southwest. - Original Message - From: Chris To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build your home ? I just built a utility building using the recycled steel structure by Panasteel, and I didn't have to join a get-rich-quick scheme to do it. Chris KCayce, SC - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 3:04 PM Subject: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build your home ? Have you ever wondered how many trees were killed to build your home ? Go to this link an see how many and what you can do to change that whether it be a garage or a stadium ?http://customsuperhomes.com/mykI would like to make that change for America, after viewing the information signup to send me your information so we can build it together,Myk HillEnvironmental Builder Professionalhttp://customsuperhomes.com/mykPh Fx: 206-600-5632PO Box 291Morrisville, NC 27560 ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Re: Acetone as gasoline additive (my test)
Hello All... I have been reading the posts on this matter and thought I would start my own test. I will be testing mostly city driving and tracking the results and posting them here as well. I have to admit...curiousity got the best of me...and I would not mind either saving some money on fuel...or at least have more fun with the money spent. :-) Stats on the vehicle: 1997 Ford Crown Victoria P71 (retired police cruiser) with 87k miles. It has a 4.6L (Vin W) 8cyl motor and an automatic transmission. The first tank with acetone is 2oz / 10 gallons with a relatively recent tuneup, proper tire air pressure (32 psi), and no OBDII error codes present or pending. The car has been averaging between 15 and 20 mpg in town (depending on the weight of my foot) and almost 30 mpg on the highway with cruise control. I will run several tanks of gasoline/acetone mix and then a few tanks of straight gasoline. This should eliminate the benefits of any cleaning as an improvement in economy. I know it is not scientific...too many other variables. I will track the following unless someone has some additional suggestions: Date / Vehicle Mileage / Travelled Distance / Gallons / Price / Octane / Oz Acetone / Full tank? / MPG / Misc Comments --Randall engage lurker mode - Original Message - From: malcolm maclure [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 4:33 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Fwd: Acetone as gasoline additive tests - Phase II Hello Keith, Mike et al It goes well thanks...busy as ever. Acetone's a better subject than acetylene eh? LOL! (Phew!) By the way, we took that tank back to that engineer, and he wasn't at all perturbed by what we told him. Oh, he said. Hm. Beware of certain engineers bearing gifts. Yes, thankfully the boom is IN the cylinders not on the outside. Phew indeedy!! Bloody engineers...give 'em a few spanners they think they know it all!! What motor is that Malcolm? Sorry - should have said. The Range Rover is off the road at the moment, the flex plate (links torque converter to crank) shattered so while I had the auto transmission off to replace the flex plate I thought I'd swap the trans for a diesel matched one I got on ebay (when the conversion was done they left the petrol matched trans in the shifts were never right) I've just finished rebuilding the new trans as it had water in it, so hope to try it out next week. In the meantime we bought the current runabout from my niece for £250 because it needed a few bits doing to it she just couldn't afford the repairs - usual story £150 in parts but £650 in labour. She was given a later model by her mum dadaren't parents great! It's a 1989 Volvo 740 GLE - 2.3l petrol, non turbo. It's a bit thirsty for my liking but hopefully we won't be using it as the main vehicle for too much longer. We mainly do school runs, weekly shop, pick up drop off customer's furniture etc. So it's town driving with about 10 - 15% motorway. My initial mpg without acetone (measured over 186.9 miles) = 21.346 As I said it was running rich. 110 miles left to cover on the acetone mpg test so I should have a result by mid week, hope so as I'm off to Spain for a week on Thursday. :-) I'll keep you posted. Regards Malcolm From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: 30 April 2005 10:49 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Fwd: Acetone as gasoline additive tests - Phase II Hi Malcolm, how goes? Acetone's a better subject than acetylene eh? LOL! (Phew!) By the way, we took that tank back to that engineer, and he wasn't at all perturbed by what we told him. Oh, he said. Hm. Beware of certain engineers bearing gifts. Doing an mpg test at the moment Keith, another 130 miles to do before I can report back. What I will say is that the engine seems to be running a little smoother, quieter with a bit more power - not very quantitative I know. I think nearly everyone's said that, interesting in itself, quantitative or not. One observation I've made is that the engine before was running rich - with acetone as an additive the distinctive sweetness of the exhaust fumes has gone, they smell more like that of a well tuned engine. Again not very quantitative. What motor is that Malcolm? Hope to have an mpg comparison next week Take care You too, and thanks! Regards Keith Malcolm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: 29 April 2005 18:51 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: Acetone as gasoline additive tests - Phase II Any further results from Biofuel list members yet? Regards Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http
Re: [Biofuel] 271 Diesel Generators
Count me in too! Do you have a link or contact info? engage lurker mode ROY Washbish wrote: Jeremy If this turns out to be good I sure am interested in buying one. 23 KW DIESEL is just what I'm looking for. Thanks Roy Jeremy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have found a source for 20Kw General Motors 271 that have come off of Union Pacific Railroad cars. The hours are unkown, but is assumed that they were well taken care of as they refrigerated railroad cars. They are all tested and painted. Apperently someone bought 2300 of them, and is selling them for a few grand. Is this a desirable motor for biofuel or in general, can someone who is running them testify to their value- even if you don't know the hours. Rebuild is reported to be very easy, full rebuild kits with pistons cost 400. Thanks for any respones. Jeremy ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Roy Washbish Certified Health Coach A HOME BUSINESS PRODUCTS THAT WORK PRODUCTS BUSINESS HTTP://WWW.TRIVITA.COM/11393920 - Do you Yahoo!? Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
I would like to see (if anyone has the data) temperature trending where the period is not days/months/years, but *decades* or *centuries*. It appears from that link and the associated links, that we have gone from a period of unusual colder than average around 1950 to more of a *slightly* warmer average in 2000. http://www.giss.nasa.gov/data/update/gistemp/warm_stations/ So, yes, it appears to be global warming but warming to what average or expected temperature?? What is the natural AVERAGE temperature for the Earth and the various latitudes, and what is the natural variation? --Randall - Original Message - From: Andrew Cunningham [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Mick, Can you feel the difference of 1 degree increase on average? Andy On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:56:42 -0600, Mickey *B** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I sit here freezing, in temperatures colder than normal, I have a hard time swallowing the global warming concept. Mick From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 03:22:33 +0900 http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0123-01.htm Published on Sunday, January 23, 2005 by the lndependent/UK Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert by Geoffrey Lean Global warning has already hit the danger point that international attempts to curb it are designed to avoid, according to the world's top climate watchdog. snipped for brevity ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Just read this WVO post on the Dieselstop.com forum...VERY good idea!!
http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=2068414 --- New WVO fuel system design- Could it work ??? #2068414 - 10/30/04 10:05 PM Edit Reply Quote I scored myself a bosch fuel pump today that is rated for 52gph @ 150psi , and am planning on using it in a completely seperate WVO fuel system. Well while trying to figure the simplest way to hook up all the plumbing, valves, switches, sensors, relays etc, I came up with an idea to eliminate most all of that. running a dual tandem fuel system. I will leave the factory fuel system just the way it came from ford, except I will add a check valve at each point where the lines go in the head. I will then rig up a similar setup for the WVO using the ports on the back of the heads. I also found a mustang style pressure regulator at the junkyard that has three ports on it. 2 that T at the regulator, and then a return. I will run the veg oil lines from the pump, at the tank, through my big Donaldson, to the pressure regulator, and to the rear fuel ports on the heads. Essentially a dead head type system, like the factory uses. I will set my pressure regulator to 80 psi, and wire my WVO pump so that the nuetral lockout feed will disable it when in park, or nuetral. Now, when the truck is cold, the Oil will be thick and not flow very well, but the #2 will be just fine, and the truck will run on it until the oil gets warmed up. Once the oil gets warm, starts flowing and the pressure exceeds the factory #2 setting(around 55psi), the Diesel will start bypassing back to the tank, as per the factory design, and the truck will continue to run on WVO. The check valves in the diesel lines will prevent the WVO from backfeeding into the diesel system. And similarly, the WVo regulator being set at a higher pressure than the factory regulator will prevent the Diesel from backfeeding the Oil. Cross cantamination solved. Again, when you go to start up in the morning, with the truck in park(or nuetral for manual), the veg oil pump will not be on, only the diesel pump. Then once you begin driving, pwr will be applied to the WVO pump, but it will only begin to run on WVO, once warm enough to flow properly, and cause the diesel to bypass. Now when you are where you need to be, put the truck in park, and the WVO pump shuts off, pressure drops, and the diesel begins to feed the motor again. Simply let the motor idle for a few seconds, and shut it off. I will figure out how long it takes to purge, but shouldn't be long. And even better yet, down the road when I do performance injectors, I will have all the fuel I could ever need. . Allright, please poke some holes in my system, I am all giddy right now, just seems too simple, I must be missing something 99 Super Duty PSD, CC, SB, 4X4, Phantom trans temp, pyro and boost gages, bypassed wastegate, air pressure regulator to avoid defuleing, Straight piped stock exhaust removed stock airbox, Napa 6637 filter 15.227@ 86.28mph- weight 7,500 lb clamp, Home made SVO kit, Edge Evolution, 23,000 miles in 6 months!!! 96 Bronco XLT 351 (for sale) 82 Capri with EFI 393 on the way 66 Jeep J-300 with EFI 351W, 70 bronco coil spring front ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] BioDiesel Tax Incentive...H.R. 4520, also known as the American JOBS Creation Act of 2004.
My apologies if this has already been posted...just saw this story on the National Biodiesel Board website ( http://www.biodiesel.org/news/taxincentive/ ) President George W. Bush today signed into law a bill containing the first biodiesel tax incentive, a provision that is expected to increase domestic energy security, reduce pollution and stimulate the economy. The American Soybean Association (ASA), the National Biodiesel Board (NBB) and biodiesel enthusiasts commended Washington leaders for passing the biodiesel tax incentive and extending the ethanol tax incentive as part of H.R. 4520, also known as the American JOBS Creation Act of 2004. This tax incentive generated strong bi-partisan support because it truly is a win for all Americans, said NBB chairman and ASA first vice president Bob Metz of South Dakota. Our nation has a direct interest in taking steps to promote renewable fuels, like ethanol and biodiesel, which lessen our dependence on foreign oil. Biodiesel has many benefits that are important to all citizens. It reduces emissions that are harmful to human health and the environment, it's nontoxic and biodegradable, and its increased production will create jobs. Senator Chuck Grassley (R-IA), Senator Blanche Lincoln (D-AR), Congressman Kenny Hulshof (R-MO) and others championed the tax incentive. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Just found this bit of diesel humor...
and thought I would share it with everyone. :-) http://www.thebenzbin.com/hotrod.html (Beware...there is Mercedes 240D humor... ) ;-) --Randall ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Just found this bit of diesel humor...
It was quite funny...my wife thought I was going crazy. :-) --Randall Legal Eagle wrote: Mark Shilling is my nom-de-plume :) Luc - Original Message - From: Randall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 10:16 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Just found this bit of diesel humor... and thought I would share it with everyone. :-) http://www.thebenzbin.com/hotrod.html (Beware...there is Mercedes 240D humor... ) ;-) --Randall ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] New list member question
Luc, No problem on the ribbing... :) The car may become a daily driver once it gets the once-over...but for now it is an unknown. I did read your suggestions on the tank screen, and had thought about putting an easily replaceable 2nd filter to help keep it clean while the bio does it work on the old system. Thanks for the suggestion on the valves...last time I had to deal with adjusting valves was my 92 Accord. ;-) And if the car gets the rear end eaten...I might turn it into a home bio-generator. Might be overkill, but then again, it will not have to work hard. --Randall - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New list member question Randall: Whahahah. Automatic ! Just ribbing you. - Original Message - From: Randall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 2:39 PM Subject: [Biofuel] New list member question Any chances of people posting their experiences/suggestions to new list members that have bought specific diesels? This is not the first diesel that I have owned, but it is the first that I will have run non-dino. :-) I just bought a 1982 Mercedes 240D automatic--slow yes, but should be simple (I hope!). This is not going to be a daily driver--more of a test platform. Whahahah. Automatic ! Just ribbing you. Why not a daily driver ? Any tuning suggestions? Seals that need attention? Filter suggestions? Tuning, yes. Get a valve adjustment, it is required regular maintenance. Ahhh, the filters. Have you read my ongoing saga with the MB 240D's filters ? Mine is a 1983 4spd 4 cylendar manual. Before you get any further, pull the screen filter out of the fuel tank and inspect it 'cause that little beggar is going to clog up solid :) Actually you could just strip the screen part out and then install a second primary filter in the engine compartment and be prepared to change it often at first (until all the deposits get flushed). I just had the screen filter and fuel lines replaced so I don't really have to worry about that anymore but had I known about what it would entail I would have pulled it right off. Does anyone know if this model will do ok if I try SVO? Performance modifications? (snicker) Peerformance? Ha, what performance? Actually, it performs extremely well, it just doesn't do it very fast that's all. However, considering that that 67 HP is pulling around 3500lbs of metal it doesn't do too too poorly. Consider this. If for any reason your Benz gets scrapped by a rear end accident or somethig, God forbid, but it does happen, do you toss the car's engine, or turn it into a fantastic genset or one of the funkiest three wheeled motorcycles you have ever seen (both running on B100 of course)? Some have converted them, but mostly the 300D, to WVO/SVO use with a second tank system.Don't know the ins and outs of that one though. Luc Is there anyone on the list that lives in the Charlotte, NC area that can suggest good places for methanol and lye? Thanks in advance!! --Randall Van Engen ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] New list member question
Any chances of people posting their experiences/suggestions to new list members that have bought specific diesels? This is not the first diesel that I have owned, but it is the first that I will have run non-dino. :-) I just bought a 1982 Mercedes 240D automatic--slow yes, but should be simple (I hope!). This is not going to be a daily driver--more of a test platform. Any tuning suggestions? Seals that need attention? Filter suggestions? Does anyone know if this model will do ok if I try SVO? Performance modifications? (snicker) Is there anyone on the list that lives in the Charlotte, NC area that can suggest good places for methanol and lye? Thanks in advance!! --Randall Van Engen ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel senior thesis questions and ideas...aka help
James, You might also call any of the local NC Inspections stations (also see if your college has one in the motorpool) and see if they can either loan or let you tow the car in and hook the tailpipe sniffer up. Doubt they will be checking for methane, but the rest are part of the standard emissions check for autos in NC. You can baseline and then test afterwards pretty easily within 10 minutes. --Randall Van Engen Charlotte, NC - Original Message - From: Andrei Cular [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel senior thesis questions and ideas...aka help Find your self an engine analyzer with gas bench. You should be able to pick up an old one in working condition for around $100 or find someone that has a portable one they can bring to you. They will give you 02, CO, CO2, NOx, and Hydrocarbons and the calibration kits are very affordable from any large auto parts supply house such as NAPA. -- Andrei Cular Mechanical Engineer Marine Concepts inc. www.marineconcepts.com P:239.283.0800 F:239.283.3332 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] biodiesel senior thesis questions and ideas...aka help Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 17:12:20 -0500 my name is james croonenberghs-i'm a senior at guilford college in greensboro, nc who's doing his senior thesis for physics on biodiesel. for my thesis, i'm going to try to find a way to lower the NOx emissions most likely through additives. i have $400 left in my budget with which i need to find a way to test the emissions (i'm thinking about testing them using Gas Chromotograhy but am not sure how to collect the exhaust), convert the car (i've got a '79 mercedes with no hood, seats, or brakes sitting in the basement of our science building) to run on veggie oil, make a processor, buy necessary ingredients for the fuel, and any other stuff that comes up. first question... how do i go about cheaply testing exhaust for NOx as well as CO, CO2, methane... 2) i'm sure there are similar studies happening...do you all know of any? or what additives would be worthwhile looking into? another part of this project that has less to do with physics and more to do with what i actually want to be doing (saving the world) is building a biodiesel processor to make bio that would power the maintance crew's equipment. eventually expanding this into a co-op here where other students would help make the fuel so they could run their cars off of it. so, thoughts on how to set that up? as in, how big a processor am i talking about? is it conceivable? etc, etc. also, where is a good website to lead me through converting the car to run on veggie oil? and make a processor? sorry if these are things y'all have gone over before...but, i've just been on the list for a few days now. thanks for any help you can give me and if you need any clarifications...i'll be happy to give 'em. ~james ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
Hello everyone, I'm new to this list. Has it occurred to any of you that maybe George already knew that the planes were going to hit the towers. I wonder if this is true because if you look at who gained most out the that disaster then it is undoubtedly the Bush administration. Greater control of the population, an increase in the military budget and the ability to invade a country that just happens to be strategically placed for the building of an oil pipeline. In fact Hamid Karzai, the president of Afghanistan, is a former advisor to the oil company, Unocal, which planned to build an oil and gas pipeline from the Caspian Sea region across western Afganistan to the Arabian Sea coast of Pakistan, but could not do while the Taliban were in power. And where is the evidence that Osama Bin Laden did it? I haven't seen any, just the repeated mantra 'Bin Laden did it'. 9/11 also made it virtually impossible for any country to oppose the U.S. after Bush said you're either with us or against us. This made the invasion of Iraq so much easier. And having British and US troops in Iraq, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia is obviously very good from the view point of someone who wants to control that region. I wonder who will be next, Iran or Syria? Love, Dave. On Tuesday, June 29, 2004, at 07:02 am, William Dwyer wrote: If I were in Dubya's shoes, which are more than likely too small for me anyway, I would have said, Hey kids, I'm really sorry, but I've got to go take care of something real important, it's something that Presidents have to do from time to time. (pause for the 2nd grade whines of disappointment to subside) I'll tell you what though, I'll have my assistant, Mr. Card here, schedule your whole class to come and visit me at the White House in a couple months.Ê How's that sound? (pause for 2nd grade cheers of excitement to subside) Ok!Ê Great!Ê We'll see you then!Ê Bye now! and exit as quickly and quietly as possible.Ê How long would that take?Ê 30 seconds?Ê A minute tops.Ê When you're the Commander in Chief of the United States, The ability to think and act quickly and decicively in a crisis situation is not just a good quality, it's an essential quality.Ê One that Bush hasn't shown any evidence of possessing.Ê By the way, I wish you'd have given me your question in written form...Ê Oh, wait, you just did...Ê DUH! Will I'm not a president, but I play one online Dwyer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 12:43 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 I would certainly like to hear what you would have done in that situation. If he had jumped up and ran out of the room he would have caused panic. Of course then everyone on the left would say he showed bad form. If he made a statement right then and there, he would be speaking on almost no information. There was nothing he could do from where he was, there was nothing anyone could do. Perhaps he should have run to the local phone booth switched outfits and flown out to save the day, but aside from that, everyone was entirely helpless. Honestly, I don't think I'll be voting for Bush, but I don't think he did anything wrong before, during and the period after, 9/11. I don't think anyone would have, or could have done anything better without a seer to predict the future. My problems lie with his justifications for the Iraq war, buts thats another issue entirely. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] image.tiff image.tiff Yahoo! Groups Links ð To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ Ê ð To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ê ð Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list
Re: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
Unfortunately, the pages I gave you are very well founded and documented. They are valid, and true. You know, its really funny, I can't, off hand, think of anyone that has actually tried to discredit my argument that Moore is a lier, and that his 'documentaries' are less documentary than one-sided propaganda. The only counter-point I can think of off hand is my comment about the number of casualties. I'll leave that for now, thats more of a pro/anti-war argument. I really don't understand the force at which people are fighting for Michael Moore either. I've certainly stated that I really have no position to support the current administration. Rather I think everyone is blindly accepting what this man is saying because he too doesn't like Bush. The enemy of your enemy is your friend, sure, doesn't mean you have to agree with him. Randall Sanborn On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 19:29, Appal Energy wrote: You moved so quickly to find error with the sources that you completely disregarded the argument itself. Nah, nah, nah, nah homey. If the foundation is rotten the roof quickly collapses. Again, there is no valid argument than can be constructed on faulty data. You can try all you like, but all you'll end up doing is spending a lifetime shoring up walls and buttressing the ceilings to keep everything from caving in on you. Try firm ground for a change. It will save you and everyone boatloads of effort and grief. Happy Happy... Todd Swearingen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
You moved so quickly to find error with the sources that you completely disregarded the argument itself. I'll readily admit that there are some seriously flawed pieces on that site, but if you look through the two examples I mentioned you'll see a few perfect examples of disinformation. The pictures were the important part on those specific pages and for the most part the write up is spot on. I'll give Moore credit, he is one of the best I've seen at using facts to lie. wrestle precious hours away from far more productive endeavors, all to rehash erroneous allegations and falsehoods of intentional foundation. They aren't falsehoods, if you look at the quote I dropped in from Michael Moore he actually admitted to at least one of those incidents and the rest are very well documented. He's doesn't make documentaries, he makes political propaganda. I don't have a problem with political propaganda even, just as long as its honest and presented as such. He lies, and presents his work as documentary which it isn't. I'm sitting here reading numerous posts of people saying this is the best thing they've seen, etc, and I'd simply like them to at the very least exercise a little more judgment. Randall Sanborn On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 11:10, Appal Energy wrote: Mr. Sanborn, Let's try a little honesty for a moment. I know that it might pain you. But give it a go just once. First of all, yes, you're correct. I do make point of discredit[ing] the source[s], especially when the sources you use are ripe with error. Second, when a person utilizes sources chucked full of error and disinformation as their foundation for argument, there is essentially no argument and no point or purpose in going 'round and 'round the mulberry bush as you would apparently like effect. Third, based upon the sources that you draw your information from, it is rather apparent that you're either an aspiring disinformatinalist or someone who siimply enjoys creating an atmosphere of argument. Fourth, in light of that, I'm afraid that you presume far too much in your expectancy that everyone (or anyone) drop everything that they're doing, wrestle precious hours away from far more productive endeavors, all to rehash erroneous allegations and falsehoods of intentional foundation. To what end? Certainly not in search of any truth. Or if so, only the truth as you care to interpret it. Do you really think that a book such as Al Franken's Lies and the Lying Liars that tell them, A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right would have made it out of the batter's box if it was as full of liable and untruths as your sources claim? And in all honesty, anyone who deliberately assesses judgement on a present issue and/or film based upon an unrelated past issue is someone who is far more set upon a distorted conclusion than upon any conclusion predicated upon reality. Come to think of it, that practice is exactly what you're accusing another of. One can only presume, based upon your operating on such a double standard, that the rules that you would care to apply to others simply don't apply to you? Perahaps now you can see why you are so easily discounted? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 I applaud your attempt to discredit the source rather than to make any attempt whatsoever to discredit the arguement or the premise itself. But here are some more reputable sources, irregardless of the fact that the site I linked had a number of reference sources. http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0422nra3.shtml And here is the link of how Moore edited hestons speech entirely and spliced the sentences to create an entirely new speech. http://www.hardylaw.net/Bowlingtranscript.html He has a link on there with the actual transcript, and you can throw in BFC if you want to check Moore's new version. And here is another anti-Moore link corraborating the Flint incident. I don't need a source for that though, slow down your DVD player and do it frame by frame. Moore puts together a sequence of scenes to make it look like Heston is in Flint immediately after the death of the little girl. He actually says Just as he did after the Columbine shooting, Charlton Heston showed up in Flint, to have a big pro-gun rally. But, from: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=859 When I spoke to Moore last week, he confirmed Hardy's point about the date of the speech, but angrily denied the allegation that he had misled viewers. Moore actually admits the date was off. How does he get off saying he didn't try to mislead people. As for the civilian casualties, there are only a reported maximum of about 11,300 according to http://www.iraqbodycount.net Most of the deaths are by cluster bombs and the initial
Re: [biofuel] Re: The clash of civilizations and the Great Caliphate
Eric, The reason US/UK forces invaded Iraq was so that they can take control of the middle east and eventually create a global fascist state. They are the real terrorist. George Bush comes from a family of genocidal maniacs. Kerry is related to him and is in fact part of the same group of people planning to create this global fascist state. Queen Elizabeth II is his 13th cousin and is also part of the gang of terrorists who plan to create a centralised one world government, police force, army, bank and a micro-chipped population (slaves). This is the real reason for the war on terrorism, it's a smoke screen. You create a problem, like 9-11 or Sadam and then you offer the solution which will always be to take away our freedoms and take land. For more info about this check out http://www.davidicke.com Dave On Tuesday, June 1, 2004, at 02:43 pm, Eric M. Joseph wrote: Yes jkolling, a nice pun it is!Ê But I think (I hope) that some of the reason we are over in Iraq is to suppress the terrorist activity.Ê It doesn't seem that way at times though.Ê Bush actually creates an environment for these types of things toÊ florish.Ê -If he doesn't achieve his goals, but then what are his goals.Ê The truth is that I don't think that anybody knows but him.Ê After all, he IS a politician-just like Kerry.Ê I personally don't trust any politician, and hope that when I vote it is for the lessor of two evils. And Keith, thank you for the quotes.Ê Scary; Abraham sounds like he's fanatical.Ê I don't see anything wrong with 'the Green Movement.'Ê He sounds like someone with a hidden agenda like the rest of the politicians. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] image.tiff image.tiff Yahoo! Groups Links ð To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ Ê ð To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ê ð Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] removing water from alcohol
You could do that. The metallic Potassium would react quicker (and safely) though you are right to avoid the metallic sodium. The other advantage of the metallic potassium is that it will react with the water as well as the alcohol. The end result is a mixture of KOH and CH3CH2OK. The potassium salt of the alcohol is even more potent than the KOH as a base. The reaction would generate hydrogen gas which could be captured and used elsewhere (or sold) and you would be able to determine an endpoint very easily (keep adding the metal until you have some metal in the bottom of the container, and all of your water is gone and your alcohol is now a very potent base). Then all you would need to do would be to add your vegetable oil and process it to biodiesel. You end up with ethyl-ester biodiesel, glycerine, and potassium hydroxide (fairly pure potassium hydroxide which could be used elsewhere). jmwelter wrote: Hey, I know many of you on the list as well as I have been trying to find ways to dry alcohol without using zeolites, etc... there has been the suggestion of using metallic potassium or sodium (very dangerous) but what I was thinking is that maybe using a K2O or Na2O (potassium or sodium oxide - not hydroxide) to consume the water? Since when left out in the open, the two oxides will absorb water to become KOH and NaOH respectively, why not use them to make KOH or NaOH in the solution? JEFF Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/BgmYkB/VovDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] vac distillation heat disposal
Why not set up a waste heat exchanger. That would allow you to recapture some of the heat needed for distillation to heat the next batch. mtushmoo wrote: Remember, Boiling requires heat to make it happen, even if it is occuring in a vacumn. The vacumn making the ethanol boil will absorb heat from the mix. That's the process that air conditioners work byor did you mean the heat in the condensor from the condensing vapors? Eric It's disposing of the heat after I've used it, that will be my shortcoming. I am trying to remove the heat disposal problem, by simply not putting the heat in to start with. I welcome any thoughts and commentary on my approach. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: ethanol distillation
You could use a Carbon dioxide scrubber to remove the CO2 and then still be able to use a vacuum for distillation. The House of Jade wrote: Well, you are now talking about vacuum fermentation for which there is a patented process. Stripping off ethanol as it is produced solves one problem but the problem is that the vacuum system must deal with the massive amounts of carbon dioxide being generated by the fermentation process; so vacuum fermentation of ethanol never got off the ground. Yes, it is possible to use a rather high vacuum to break the azeotrope and obtain 200 proof (absolute, anhydrous) ethanol. However, high vacuum distillation is best carried out in borosilicate glass, as metal stills are subject to crushing. A lot of ethanol will be wasted out the pump unless you have efficient cold trapping (usually acetone/dry ice slurry) with its own dangers. So, molecular sieves are easier and safer to render 96% ethanol anhydrous. Also bear in mind that anhydrous ethanol will very efficiently soak up moisture from the air and return to the azeotropic state, so to keep it dry, you must handle it using special atmosphere-excluding techniques. Hope this helps... _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
