Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners and magneticwater treatment
, time frame after a long period of cold temps have cooled down the soil that the pipeline runs through - granted, at the depth the pipeline is, the temperature difference would only amount to a few degrees, but, even a few degrees, can make a difference, with a increase or decrease in wax build up with the different fuels. Without controlling the variables, other that using or not using magnets, it is not a verifiable test, nor is it scientific by any means. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Mike McGinness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 18:25 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners andmagnetic water treatment SNIP These same magnets are sold for magnetic water conditioning. So is ozone, which has moved from the realm of sudo science in the USA 30 years ago, to a point now where it is used instead of chlorine in nearly 50% of US drinking water supply systems. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners and magnetic water treatment
Hello Mike Greetings everyone, Here is one fairly recent conference paper that is available online via the link below that I think is worth reading for those on both sides of this debate. http://services.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1003context= eci/heatexchanger The list of references in their paper is also an excellent source for finding more papers to read on this topic including some interesting history on the topic. The authors of this paper referred to these devices as PWT (Physical Water Treatment) devices. I know that many of you are more interested in fuel treatment using these devices than water treatment and I will endeavor to find a similar article like this one that covers the fuel treatment topic as well as this one covers water treatment. Also please keep in mind that prevention of scale formation on heat exchanger surfaces in water cooled heat exchangers, and home water heaters for instance is an energy saving issue. Whether it's an energy saving issue or not it's a different topic. In a discussion about magnets and improved fuel economy all that offering evidence of the use of magnets in water treatments can is muddy the waters (pardon me). As I said, this is a contentious issue. I said this too: Let's focus please on magnets and fuel, just to cut down on the variables and potential confusions, maybe it'll improve the chances of getting good answers. That was the original subject anyway, Ecoflow's Magnetic fuel saver for petrol diesel vehicles. http://snipurl.com/mqov [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners and magnetic water treatment (Signed Biofuel list owner so it wasn't just a suggestion.) Anyway offering a list of references to support your views is not much use. The burden of proof is on you, you're not going to persuade anyone by telling them they can find the evidence in a library if they check all these references - in other words they have to do the research. YOU check them. Find conclusive scientific evidence for your claims, quote it and provide the citations. Please stick to magnets and fuel. If you want to discuss magnets and water treatments and energy savings you're welcome, but please do it in a different thread. Also lists of references and bibliographies in research studies are not very reliable, not even in reputable peer-reviewed journal publications. One study showed that up to 35% of citations were wrong, and another found that up to a third of references were wrongly cited anyway, they didn't state what the authors thought they did, they just regurgitated it from other authors' lists of references without checking it. I think you should be more even-handed with your scepticism: I see bad lab data and lab procedures regularly in environmental test labs. Therefore, I question all facts given to me as lab test data and so called FACTS and I will for the rest of my life, unless it is run by 3 independent labs with double blinds, including sample matrix tests for interferences such as sample spikes and sample dilutions to verify the accuracy of the tests with a paper trail to ASTM standards, proper sample chain of custody paper work by reputable, unbiased and knowledgeable lab personnel (this includes sampling by unbiased personnel) and with proper sample preservation between the sample point and the lab test... -- Mike McGinness Sun, 12 Feb 2006 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg59973.html Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Mercury Levels Rising: Report Release Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Enjoy, Mike McGinness Keith Addison wrote: Hello Greg Until you take the human influence ( conscious or subconscious ) and other variables from the results, there is no way to do any conclusive scientific test.Without any conclusive scientific testing, there is no proof. Just because there are cars on the road that use magnets, and they appear to work, is no teat or proof that they work.The owners could very easily be subconscious be easier on the throttle, which in turn make it appear that the magnets are indeed working.One can just as easily say that Mutually Assured Destruction worked, so it is a good thing to have nuclear weapons. NOT. Just because something appears to work, does not mean that it actualy does, unless conclusive scientific testing - that eliminates any other possible variables as the actual reason for the improvement, proves it does. *** Sorry Keith, but, it's time for the pro-magnet crowd to put up verifiable testing or cut the yacking about something that is not proven to work - we may as well be talking about Zero point energy, cold fusion, or perpetual motion machines *** 'Fraid so. Or 200mpg carburettors, as Bob said. Same as before. But hope springs eternal. Maybe we could power an over-unity device
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
I use the Fuel Meiser recommended by Hakan's website; the bigger one made for V8's for my V6. I get ~1.5-2 more miles per gallon. Lillie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners and magnetic water treatment
Hello Greg Until you take the human influence ( conscious or subconscious ) and other variables from the results, there is no way to do any conclusive scientific test.Without any conclusive scientific testing, there is no proof. Just because there are cars on the road that use magnets, and they appear to work, is no teat or proof that they work.The owners could very easily be subconscious be easier on the throttle, which in turn make it appear that the magnets are indeed working.One can just as easily say that Mutually Assured Destruction worked, so it is a good thing to have nuclear weapons. NOT. Just because something appears to work, does not mean that it actualy does, unless conclusive scientific testing - that eliminates any other possible variables as the actual reason for the improvement, proves it does. *** Sorry Keith, but, it's time for the pro-magnet crowd to put up verifiable testing or cut the yacking about something that is not proven to work - we may as well be talking about Zero point energy, cold fusion, or perpetual motion machines *** 'Fraid so. Or 200mpg carburettors, as Bob said. Same as before. But hope springs eternal. Maybe we could power an over-unity device on eternally springing hope. Oh, sorry, that IS how they're powered, isn't it. Anyway I agree, the pro-magnet crowd should put up verifiable testing or cut the yacking. All best Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Greg H. - Original Message - From: Andres Secco [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 6:28 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditionersandmagnetic watertreatment Greg, My experience is totally different and disagree with your concepts of no real proofs. There are thousands of cars, cooling towers and boilers running with magnets with very good results. Better fosil fuel yield no fouling are the reported results. Of course if someone wants to pasteurize or sterilize water is unlikely to do it with magnets. Magnets do not make miracles but say that there is a waste of time to use them is too much. - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditionersandmagnetic water treatment Mike, You have made a statement that really stands out as to how unreliable the science of magnetism really is. Ozone is now a proven technology for many things, including purification of water, while 30 years ago it was in the realm of junk science. Yet, after 30 years, magnets are still in the realm of junk science ( sounds good - maybe even possible, but no real proof ). One would think that thirty years would be plenty of time to establish the how and why it works and be accepted by the mainstream science community. Yet, magnets are still have not been proven by scientific trials. You mention trials by putting them on fuel pipelines, and watching the differences in the amount of wax build up, but, there is no proof in that. The amount of wax in fuel varies with the time of the year, and the particular fuel flowing through the pipeline.The same pipeline will handle ( in order of decreasing wax content ) heating oil ( Diesel #4 ), vehicle diesel in the summer( Diesel #2 ), vehicle Diesel in the winter ( Diesel #1 or a blend of #1 and #2 depending on how cold the area get's, that the fuel is going to ) and possibly kerosene depending on the area. A build up of wax that occurred when heating oil is being pumped through the pipeline, will dissolve when diesel #1 or kerosene is being pumped through the pipeline. Wax buildup is also more likely to occur during the late winter / early spring, time frame after a long period of cold temps have cooled down the soil that the pipeline runs through - granted, at the depth the pipeline is, the temperature difference would only amount to a few degrees, but, even a few degrees, can make a difference, with a increase or decrease in wax build up with the different fuels. Without controlling the variables, other that using or not using magnets, it is not a verifiable test, nor is it scientific by any means. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Mike McGinness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 18:25 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners andmagnetic water treatment SNIP These same magnets are sold for magnetic water conditioning. So is ozone, which has moved from the realm of sudo science in the USA 30 years ago, to a point now where it is used instead of chlorine in nearly 50% of US drinking water supply systems. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
Dear David, Environment protection agency has been digging in a very serious way since 1972 and they have a complete report on all the work already made. Check this link. http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/reports.htm The general conclussion is they do not recomend a particular device. But if you carefully study the reports you will find the most interisting conclussions in diesel and gas engines. In all the reports there is a mileage increase and exaust emission improvement. However based on the study of a particular case, there is not possible to recomend nothing in a general way. Why? because there are too many engines in the road, different in size, weight, number of bangers, and so on. Lets say this : if you have a few million 1,6 liter engines made by 15 manufacturers, and get a reduction with the device of 10% in the consumption on two of the manufacturers, there is not possible to recomend it for all because the statistics. For a general conclussion the device must be tested in a significant number of manufacturers. So, EPA do not recommend because statistical significance. By the way, they never found a device which a worst performance than without the device. Big improvement or small improvement, but not the opossite. And that means statistically something. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners I'd like to see some real scientific information. Not web sites run by people selling magnets, real research. Like Bob Allen said, a peer reviewed journal would be nice. Where other scientists review claims and articles, and often times perform their own research to confirm results. Have *you* applied this and seen *any* increase in milage while changing *nothing* else? I don't mean to sound harsh, but the willingness of people to believe miracles of magnets seems overwhelming. They cure cancer, defeat gravity, energize fuel, reduce pollution, and make rainy days turn sunny. Not really, but there seem to be no end of people willing to pay good money believing such nonsense. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Visita http://www.tutopia.com y comienza a navegar más rápido en Internet. Tutopia es Internet para todos. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
Andres Secco wrote: Dear David, Environment protection agency has been digging in a very serious way since 1972 and they have a complete report on all the work already made. Check this link. http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/reports.htm The general conclussion is they do not recomend a particular device. But if you carefully study the reports you will find the most interisting conclussions in diesel and gas engines. I looked at a couple. I'll look at more if you have something of particular interest. The first consisted of wrapping a loop of the fuel line around the radiator hose to warm the fuel. I can see where that might improve fuel economy under some circumstances, and present big problems like vapor lock in others. Nothing with magnets, which is the subject at hand, jumped out at me. I'm not about to look at them all to see which, if any, actually use magnets. If you want to make a case for magnets increasing fuel economy please select a particular product and provide quotes where the EPA agreed with the manufacturer. I looked at the Fuel Maximiser at some length. The mfg supplied a large quantity of buzzwords about ions, and a number of testimonials. They also supplied data from a number of points without quantifying it in any way. They claimed economy improvements of 2% to 26%. The EPA begins their analysis on page 14, points out how the theory is utter nonsense and the device had no effect on either mileage or emissions in their tests. In all the reports there is a mileage increase and exaust emission improvement. However based on the study of a particular case, there is not possible to recomend nothing in a general way. Why? because there are too many engines in the road, different in size, weight, number of bangers, and so on. Please point to any of the devices where the EPA agrees with the company that it actually increases MPG or decreases emissions. Since we're on the topic of magnets, it would be nice if one of them used magnets. ALL the devices CLAIM to increase efficiency. This is an exercise on the EPA's part to determine which are scams. Like the Fuel Maximiser, for example. Lets say this : if you have a few million 1,6 liter engines made by 15 manufacturers, and get a reduction with the device of 10% in the consumption on two of the manufacturers, there is not possible to recomend it for all because the statistics. For a general conclussion the device must be tested C'mon. Do you really believe this? Don't you suppose that if strapping a couple of magnets the fuel line of a 97 Toyota Corolla 1.6 liter improved economy by 10 percent, like from 35 to 38.5 MPG that Toyota would be all over it? Do you have any idea how much money Toyota spends on fuel efficiency? On pollution controls? And they're not clever enough to figure out how magnets polarize the fuel? Or the oil companies have paid them off? They - and other automotive manufactures - may not do a lot of things we like. They build cars that are too big and too powerful and waste lots of fuel because of the size of the vehicles. But they're not so stupid as to ignore something easy like this. in a significant number of manufacturers. So, EPA do not recommend because statistical significance. By the way, they never found a device which a worst performance than without the device. Of course. But then I don't think that reversing the polarity of the magnets will inversely polarize the fuel and cut mileage either. Big improvement or small improvement, but not the opossite. And that means statistically something. Please, show us where the EPA confirmed a significant increase. I'll wait. You'll excuse me if I don't find the manufacturers claims credible, I hope. --- David - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners I'd like to see some real scientific information. Not web sites run by people selling magnets, real research. Like Bob Allen said, a peer reviewed journal would be nice. Where other scientists review claims and articles, and often times perform their own research to confirm results. Have *you* applied this and seen *any* increase in milage while changing *nothing* else? I don't mean to sound harsh, but the willingness of people to believe miracles of magnets seems overwhelming. They cure cancer, defeat gravity, energize fuel, reduce pollution, and make rainy days turn sunny. Not really, but there seem to be no end of people willing to pay good money believing such nonsense. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
OK, I took the bait. I went to the link you provided, and elected to start from the bottom and pick the first magnet device listed ... and the winner is: Super-Mag Fuel Extender. http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/reports.htm The summary in the abstract states (and it pains me to re-type this): The EPA evaluation of the device using three vehicles showed neither fuel economy nor exhaust emissions were affected by the installation of the Super-Mag device. In addition, any differences between baseline test results and results from tests with the device installed were within the range of normal test variability. Therefore, I submit that your statement: In all the reports there is a mileage increase and exaust (sic) emission improvement. is incorrect. If you look at the detailed results for the 1976 Malibu (page 6 of the EPA report within the larger PDF document), please note that the fuel economy *fell* with the magnets installed (by 2% to 2.8%), and all emissions measured *increased* (by up to 8.7% for NOx). However, the EPA allowed that these negative results were within the range of normal variability. There is certainly nothing approaching a 10% (your figure) improvement documented anywhere in this report. If you are submitting evidence that magnets work to increase vehicle fuel economy or reduce emissions, this case does not support that contention. As for statistical significance from these results, yes, there is. This is significant proof of the null hypothesis, which in this case would be that there would be no significant effect. Given the alleged theory of operation, the opposite is not that performance would be worse, it is that the magnets would have no effect. (If the magnets could induce significantly worse performance, that would be worthy of investigation - perhaps re-orienting the magnets would lead to improved performance.) Perhaps the advocates would like to present results from an impartial third party that suggest some degree of scientific rigour and show that there are significant and repeatable beneficial results (presumably the expected outcome from using the device per the vendor). If the theory of operation is correct, also please explain why the results cannot be replicated in a specific vehicle. My previous offer stands, but perhaps not for much longer. My tolerance for this kind of misinformation and using my time to illuminate it is very limited. Darryl McMahon Andres Secco wrote: Dear David, Environment protection agency has been digging in a very serious way since 1972 and they have a complete report on all the work already made. Check this link. http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/reports.htm The general conclussion is they do not recomend a particular device. But if you carefully study the reports you will find the most interisting conclussions in diesel and gas engines. In all the reports there is a mileage increase and exaust emission improvement. However based on the study of a particular case, there is not possible to recomend nothing in a general way. Why? because there are too many engines in the road, different in size, weight, number of bangers, and so on. Lets say this : if you have a few million 1,6 liter engines made by 15 manufacturers, and get a reduction with the device of 10% in the consumption on two of the manufacturers, there is not possible to recomend it for all because the statistics. For a general conclussion the device must be tested in a significant number of manufacturers. So, EPA do not recommend because statistical significance. By the way, they never found a device which a worst performance than without the device. Big improvement or small improvement, but not the opossite. And that means statistically something. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners I'd like to see some real scientific information. Not web sites run by people selling magnets, real research. Like Bob Allen said, a peer reviewed journal would be nice. Where other scientists review claims and articles, and often times perform their own research to confirm results. Have *you* applied this and seen *any* increase in milage while changing *nothing* else? I don't mean to sound harsh, but the willingness of people to believe miracles of magnets seems overwhelming. They cure cancer, defeat gravity, energize fuel, reduce pollution, and make rainy days turn sunny. Not really, but there seem to be no end of people willing to pay good money believing such nonsense. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners andmagnetic water treatment
Mike,Could you please provide links or bibliography, hopefully in english, for the Soviet research on fuel?On 2/12/06, Mike McGinness [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately the Russians did most of the magnetic water and fuel treatment R D in this area when it was the Soviet Union during the cold war. they also did psychic research.Just because you look doesn't mean you can find.The Soviet research was real, published and quite impressive. -- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners andmagnetic water treatment
Mike, You have made a statement that really stands out as to how unreliable the science of magnetism really is. Ozone is now a proven technology for many things, including purification of water, while 30 years ago it was in the realm of junk science. Yet, after 30 years, magnets are still in the realm of junk science ( sounds good - maybe even possible, but no real proof ). One would think that thirty years would be plenty of time to establish the how and why it works and be accepted by the mainstream science community. Yet, magnets are still have not been proven by scientific trials. You mention trials by putting them on fuel pipelines, and watching the differences in the amount of wax build up, but, there is no proof in that. The amount of wax in fuel varies with the time of the year, and the particular fuel flowing through the pipeline.The same pipeline will handle ( in order of decreasing wax content ) heating oil ( Diesel #4 ), vehicle diesel in the summer( Diesel #2 ), vehicle Diesel in the winter ( Diesel #1 or a blend of #1 and #2 depending on how cold the area get's, that the fuel is going to ) and possibly kerosene depending on the area. A build up of wax that occurred when heating oil is being pumped through the pipeline, will dissolve when diesel #1 or kerosene is being pumped through the pipeline. Wax buildup is also more likely to occur during the late winter / early spring, time frame after a long period of cold temps have cooled down the soil that the pipeline runs through - granted, at the depth the pipeline is, the temperature difference would only amount to a few degrees, but, even a few degrees, can make a difference, with a increase or decrease in wax build up with the different fuels. Without controlling the variables, other that using or not using magnets, it is not a verifiable test, nor is it scientific by any means. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Mike McGinness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 18:25 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners andmagnetic water treatment SNIP These same magnets are sold for magnetic water conditioning. So is ozone, which has moved from the realm of sudo science in the USA 30 years ago, to a point now where it is used instead of chlorine in nearly 50% of US drinking water supply systems. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners and magnetic water treatment
treatment and the leg permanently healed in just a few weeks, in what usually takes 3 months! It was the flow of blood through the magnetic field (in my opinion that affecting the paramagnetic calcium in the blood, and / or possibly the iron-hemoglobin) that speed up the healing process. The point is it worked. show me two broken legs, one treated with magnetic and one not. Harbour Tools currently sells a fuel magnetic device for less than $20.00 retail for use on the fuel lines in automobiles. Home Depot was recently selling magnetic / catalytic water treatment devices for calcium scale control on home water heaters again this doesn't mean they work, only that there are gullible people out there. Show me some data , published in a peer-reviewed journal that has been tested and accepted by others, then I will believe. Till then, it looks like a scam to me. I would find it most interesting to see test results of using these devices ( including magnetic, RF, electrostatic, and catalytic units ) on the air itself (instead of the fuel) since the O2, oxygen, is a di-radical with two unpaired electrons! I would find it more than interesting. for the life of me I can't see why a fuel molecule would care if the oxygen molecules are aligned with respect to a magnetic field. Mike McGinness [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nmfrc.org/ateww.cfm http://www.ecoshieldenv.com Andres Secco wrote: All will depend on how strong is the magnet. With 6000 gauss or more settled in the gasoline inlet will be enough to get good results on the gas efficiency. Also engine runs much better. Polarization of different materials including boilers fuel, gasoline engines, cooling towers and diesel engines has been extensively studied and the results are VERY scientific and very good. There is a big industry behind the applications. I have been using magnets for different purposes for years. Andres - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners Howdy Russel, R Heron wrote: Hi Tim At 50 pounds currency and 36 grams weight for the magnets it is definitely a rip off but polarization is not with out scientific merit. do you have data to support this claim? How do you polarize the fuel, a hydrocarbon with essentially no dipole moment? Highly polarized fuel will combine with air better with obvious results but a 36 gram magnet would not polarize much fuel. Russel - Original Message - From: Tim Hadland [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners Been approached by someone selling these from this company: http://www.ecomagnets.com/motoflow.htm I am no physics expert, so are these products a complete con ? cheers Tim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
Andres Secco wrote: Dear all, Magnets are being offered through spam e-mail and its has been so since early '90 ties. The professional use of magnets is very wide. My experience in industrial cooling towers, boilers and engines is very possitive and in some cases have it documented. How it works? This is the link http://www.tinet.org/~sje/mag_fuel.htm Yes indeed. Pasted from the page: / Fuel mainly consists of hydrocarbons. Groupings of hydrocarbons, when flowing through a magnetic field, change their orientations of magnetization in a direction opposite to that of the magnetic field. The molecules of hydrocarbon change their configuration. At the same time intermolecular force is considerably reduced or depressed. These mechanisms are believed to help to disperse oil particles and to become finely divided. In addition, hydrogen ions in fuel and oxygen ions in air or steam are magnetized to form magnetic domains which are believed to assist in atomizing fuel into finer particles. / / Generally a liquid or gas fuel used for an internal combustion engine is composed of a set of molecules. Each molecule includes a number of atoms, which is composed of a nucleus and electrons orbiting around their nucleus. The molecules have magnetic moments in themselves, and the rotating electrons cause magnetic phenomena. Thus, positive (+) and negative (-) electric charges exists in the fuel's molecules. For this reason, the fuel particles of the negative and positive electric charges are not split into more minute particles. Accordingly, the fuels are not actively interlocked with oxygen during combustion, thereby causing incomplete combustion. To improve the above, the fuels have been required to be decomposed and ionized. The ionization of the fuel particles is accomplished by the supply of magnetic force from a magnet. / /The resultant conditioned fuel/air mixture magnetized in opposite polarities burns more completely, producing higher engine output, better fuel economy, more power and most importantly reduces the amount of hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and oxides of nitrogen in the exhaust. Another benefits if these devices is that magnetically charged fuel and air molecules with opposite polarities dissolve carbon build-up in carburetor jets, fuel injectors, and combustion chambers help to clean up the engine and maintain the clean condition. / Jeez, doesn't this set off any snake-oil alarm? /For this reason, the fuel particles of the negative and positive electric charges are not split into more minute particles. /and/ //Accordingly, the fuels are not actively interlocked with oxygen during combustion, thereby causing incomplete combustion./ If this is a scientific analysis some of my teachers are going to be eating their textbooks. There are many suppliers of those small devices for passenger cars and at lower prices os 20 bucks, but the real magnets cost much more than thant. Check this link http://www.magnetic-innovations.co.uk/ Yes indeed! Magnetic products for sale. *SAVE 15% ON YOUR FUEL BILLS WITH EMMISSION MASTER! Guaranteed! *They'll give me a money back guarantee that I can save 15% on my fuel bill. So my 50 MPG TDI can now get 57.5 MPG. Pity the poor VW engineers, stupid enough to spend millions refining the engine when they could get another 15% by adding magnets in the right place. What on earth could be wrong with them? I remember scientific information related and will post soon, if I can find it over the net. I'd like to see some real scientific information. Not web sites run by people selling magnets, real research. Like Bob Allen said, a peer reviewed journal would be nice. Where other scientists review claims and articles, and often times perform their own research to confirm results. Have *you* applied this and seen *any* increase in milage while changing *nothing* else? I don't mean to sound harsh, but the willingness of people to believe miracles of magnets seems overwhelming. They cure cancer, defeat gravity, energize fuel, reduce pollution, and make rainy days turn sunny. Not really, but there seem to be no end of people willing to pay good money believing such nonsense. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners and magnetic water treatment
Harbour Tools currently sells a fuel magnetic device for less than $20.00 retail for use on the fuel lines in automobiles. Home Depot was recently selling magnetic / catalytic water treatment devices for calcium scale control on home water heaters I actually saw something like this recently on HGTV, again not the most scientific source, but it was something they wrapped around the water supply line and plugged it in...they were all about it ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners andmagnetic water treatment
Andres Secco wrote: All will depend on how strong is the magnet. With 6000 gauss or more settled in the gasoline inlet will be enough to get good results on the gas efficiency. Also engine runs much better. Polarization of different materials including boilers fuel, gasoline engines, cooling towers and diesel engines has been extensively studied and the results are VERY scientific and very good. There is a big industry behind the applications. I have been using magnets for different purposes for years. Andres - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners Howdy Russel, R Heron wrote: Hi Tim At 50 pounds currency and 36 grams weight for the magnets it is definitely a rip off but polarization is not with out scientific merit. do you have data to support this claim? How do you polarize the fuel, a hydrocarbon with essentially no dipole moment? Highly polarized fuel will combine with air better with obvious results but a 36 gram magnet would not polarize much fuel. Russel - Original Message - From: Tim Hadland [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners Been approached by someone selling these from this company: http://www.ecomagnets.com/motoflow.htm I am no physics expert, so are these products a complete con ? cheers Tim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
Yes indeed, it sounds exactly like snake oil reading the marketing claims below. Mike McGinness David Miller wrote: Andres Secco wrote: Dear all, Magnets are being offered through spam e-mail and its has been so since early '90 ties. The professional use of magnets is very wide. My experience in industrial cooling towers, boilers and engines is very possitive and in some cases have it documented. How it works? This is the link http://www.tinet.org/~sje/mag_fuel.htm Yes indeed. Pasted from the page: / Fuel mainly consists of hydrocarbons. Groupings of hydrocarbons, when flowing through a magnetic field, change their orientations of magnetization in a direction opposite to that of the magnetic field. The molecules of hydrocarbon change their configuration. At the same time intermolecular force is considerably reduced or depressed. These mechanisms are believed to help to disperse oil particles and to become finely divided. In addition, hydrogen ions in fuel and oxygen ions in air or steam are magnetized to form magnetic domains which are believed to assist in atomizing fuel into finer particles. / / Generally a liquid or gas fuel used for an internal combustion engine is composed of a set of molecules. Each molecule includes a number of atoms, which is composed of a nucleus and electrons orbiting around their nucleus. The molecules have magnetic moments in themselves, and the rotating electrons cause magnetic phenomena. Thus, positive (+) and negative (-) electric charges exists in the fuel's molecules. For this reason, the fuel particles of the negative and positive electric charges are not split into more minute particles. Accordingly, the fuels are not actively interlocked with oxygen during combustion, thereby causing incomplete combustion. To improve the above, the fuels have been required to be decomposed and ionized. The ionization of the fuel particles is accomplished by the supply of magnetic force from a magnet. / /The resultant conditioned fuel/air mixture magnetized in opposite polarities burns more completely, producing higher engine output, better fuel economy, more power and most importantly reduces the amount of hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and oxides of nitrogen in the exhaust. Another benefits if these devices is that magnetically charged fuel and air molecules with opposite polarities dissolve carbon build-up in carburetor jets, fuel injectors, and combustion chambers help to clean up the engine and maintain the clean condition. / Jeez, doesn't this set off any snake-oil alarm? /For this reason, the fuel particles of the negative and positive electric charges are not split into more minute particles. /and/ //Accordingly, the fuels are not actively interlocked with oxygen during combustion, thereby causing incomplete combustion./ If this is a scientific analysis some of my teachers are going to be eating their textbooks. There are many suppliers of those small devices for passenger cars and at lower prices os 20 bucks, but the real magnets cost much more than thant. Check this link http://www.magnetic-innovations.co.uk/ Yes indeed! Magnetic products for sale. *SAVE 15% ON YOUR FUEL BILLS WITH EMMISSION MASTER! Guaranteed! *They'll give me a money back guarantee that I can save 15% on my fuel bill. So my 50 MPG TDI can now get 57.5 MPG. Pity the poor VW engineers, stupid enough to spend millions refining the engine when they could get another 15% by adding magnets in the right place. What on earth could be wrong with them? I remember scientific information related and will post soon, if I can find it over the net. I'd like to see some real scientific information. Not web sites run by people selling magnets, real research. Like Bob Allen said, a peer reviewed journal would be nice. Where other scientists review claims and articles, and often times perform their own research to confirm results. Have *you* applied this and seen *any* increase in milage while changing *nothing* else? I don't mean to sound harsh, but the willingness of people to believe miracles of magnets seems overwhelming. They cure cancer, defeat gravity, energize fuel, reduce pollution, and make rainy days turn sunny. Not really, but there seem to be no end of people willing to pay good money believing such nonsense. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners and magnetic water treatment
conditioners Howdy Russel, R Heron wrote: Hi Tim At 50 pounds currency and 36 grams weight for the magnets it is definitely a rip off but polarization is not with out scientific merit. do you have data to support this claim? How do you polarize the fuel, a hydrocarbon with essentially no dipole moment? Highly polarized fuel will combine with air better with obvious results but a 36 gram magnet would not polarize much fuel. Russel - Original Message - From: Tim Hadland [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners Been approached by someone selling these from this company: http://www.ecomagnets.com/motoflow.htm I am no physics expert, so are these products a complete con ? cheers Tim -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
Check out surface tension effects! It affects atomization. Mike McGinness David Miller wrote: Andres Secco wrote: All will depend on how strong is the magnet. With 6000 gauss or more settled in the gasoline inlet will be enough to get good results on the gas efficiency. Also engine runs much better. Polarization of different materials including boilers fuel, gasoline engines, cooling towers and diesel engines has been extensively studied and the results are VERY scientific and very good. There is a big industry behind the applications. I have been using magnets for different purposes for years. Andres Do you have some kind of reference for this? I'm quite confused what polarization of fuel means and how or why it would make combustion either higher temperature or more efficient. A google search on magnetic polarization diesel fuel produced no results from anybody who wasn't selling magnetic products that discussed any benefits on the first two pages of results. Pointers, please. Inquiring minds want to know. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners and magnetic water treatment
strong is the magnet. With 6000 gauss or more settled in the gasoline inlet will be enough to get good results on the gas efficiency. Also engine runs much better. Polarization of different materials including boilers fuel, gasoline engines, cooling towers and diesel engines has been extensively studied and the results are VERY scientific and very good. There is a big industry behind the applications. I have been using magnets for different purposes for years. Andres - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners Howdy Russel, R Heron wrote: Hi Tim At 50 pounds currency and 36 grams weight for the magnets it is definitely a rip off but polarization is not with out scientific merit. do you have data to support this claim? How do you polarize the fuel, a hydrocarbon with essentially no dipole moment? Highly polarized fuel will combine with air better with obvious results but a 36 gram magnet would not polarize much fuel. Russel - Original Message - From: Tim Hadland [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners Been approached by someone selling these from this company: http://www.ecomagnets.com/motoflow.htm I am no physics expert, so are these products a complete con ? cheers Tim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
Dear all, Magnets are being offered through spam e-mail and its has been so since early '90 ties. The professional use of magnets is very wide. My experience in industrial cooling towers, boilers and engines is very possitive and in some cases have it documented. How it works? This is the link http://www.tinet.org/~sje/mag_fuel.htm There are many suppliers of those small devices for passenger cars and at lower prices os 20 bucks, but the real magnets cost much more than thant. Check this link http://www.magnetic-innovations.co.uk/ I remember scientific information related and will post soon, if I can find it over the net. Andres - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners Andres Secco wrote: All will depend on how strong is the magnet. With 6000 gauss or more settled in the gasoline inlet will be enough to get good results on the gas efficiency. Also engine runs much better. Polarization of different materials including boilers fuel, gasoline engines, cooling towers and diesel engines has been extensively studied and the results are VERY scientific and very good. There is a big industry behind the applications. I have been using magnets for different purposes for years. Andres Do you have some kind of reference for this? I'm quite confused what polarization of fuel means and how or why it would make combustion either higher temperature or more efficient. A google search on magnetic polarization diesel fuel produced no results from anybody who wasn't selling magnetic products that discussed any benefits on the first two pages of results. Pointers, please. Inquiring minds want to know. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Visita http://www.tutopia.com y comienza a navegar más rápido en Internet. Tutopia es Internet para todos. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
Howdy Russel, R Heron wrote: Hi Tim At 50 pounds currency and 36 grams weight for the magnets it is definitely a rip off but polarization is not with out scientific merit. do you have data to support this claim? How do you polarize the fuel, a hydrocarbon with essentially no dipole moment? Highly polarized fuel will combine with air better with obvious results but a 36 gram magnet would not polarize much fuel. Russel - Original Message - From: Tim Hadland [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners Been approached by someone selling these from this company: http://www.ecomagnets.com/motoflow.htm I am no physics expert, so are these products a complete con ? cheers Tim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.4/255 - Release Date: 2/9/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
Show it a controversial cartoon. Well, that doesn't so much polarize it as align it against you - perhaps not quite as useful. Andrew Netherton On 2/10/06, bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Howdy Russel, R Heron wrote: Hi Tim At 50 pounds currency and 36 grams weight for the magnets it is definitely a rip off but polarization is not with out scientific merit. do you have data to support this claim? How do you polarize the fuel, a hydrocarbon with essentially no dipole moment? Highly polarized fuel will combine with air better with obvious results but a 36 gram magnet would not polarize much fuel. Russel - Original Message - From: Tim Hadland [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners Been approached by someone selling these from this company: http://www.ecomagnets.com/motoflow.htm I am no physics expert, so are these products a complete con ? cheers Tim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.4/255 - Release Date: 2/9/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
All will depend on how strong is the magnet. With 6000 gauss or more settled in the gasoline inlet will be enough to get good results on the gas efficiency. Also engine runs much better. Polarization of different materials including boilers fuel, gasoline engines, cooling towers and diesel engines has been extensively studied and the results are VERY scientific and very good. There is a big industry behind the applications. I have been using magnets for different purposes for years. Andres - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners Howdy Russel, R Heron wrote: Hi Tim At 50 pounds currency and 36 grams weight for the magnets it is definitely a rip off but polarization is not with out scientific merit. do you have data to support this claim? How do you polarize the fuel, a hydrocarbon with essentially no dipole moment? Highly polarized fuel will combine with air better with obvious results but a 36 gram magnet would not polarize much fuel. Russel - Original Message - From: Tim Hadland [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners Been approached by someone selling these from this company: http://www.ecomagnets.com/motoflow.htm I am no physics expert, so are these products a complete con ? cheers Tim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.4/255 - Release Date: 2/9/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Visita http://www.tutopia.com y comienza a navegar más rápido en Internet. Tutopia es Internet para todos. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
Andres Secco wrote: All will depend on how strong is the magnet. With 6000 gauss or more settled in the gasoline inlet will be enough to get good results on the gas efficiency. Also engine runs much better. Polarization of different materials including boilers fuel, gasoline engines, cooling towers and diesel engines has been extensively studied and the results are VERY scientific and very good. There is a big industry behind the applications. I have been using magnets for different purposes for years. Andres Do you have some kind of reference for this? I'm quite confused what polarization of fuel means and how or why it would make combustion either higher temperature or more efficient. A google search on magnetic polarization diesel fuel produced no results from anybody who wasn't selling magnetic products that discussed any benefits on the first two pages of results. Pointers, please. Inquiring minds want to know. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
Been approached by someone selling these from this company: http://www.ecomagnets.com/motoflow.htm I am no physics expert, so are these products a complete con ? cheers Tim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
keep you hand on your wallet and run. yes, they are a complete, and somehow effective con. There is something about magnets that gets people with surprising frequency Tim Hadland wrote: Been approached by someone selling these from this company: http://www.ecomagnets.com/motoflow.htm I am no physics expert, so are these products a complete con ? cheers Tim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
Hi Tim At 50 pounds currency and 36 grams weight for the magnets it is definitely a rip off but polarization is not with out scientific merit. Highly polarized fuel will combine with air better with obvious results but a 36 gram magnet would not polarize much fuel. Russel - Original Message - From: Tim Hadland [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners Been approached by someone selling these from this company: http://www.ecomagnets.com/motoflow.htm I am no physics expert, so are these products a complete con ? cheers Tim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.4/255 - Release Date: 2/9/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
