Re: [Biofuel] The Market Is Lying: Why We Must Tax Carbon, Not Subsidize It
Keith, I had a double take when I read your answer. (as in Dougs of the world untie!) Australia is also going through the pains of setting up a Carbon Tax to start in 2012. Unfortunately we have an extremely vociferuous ( might I add obnoxious) Opposition Leader in Tony Abbott (nickname Rabbit, or Wingnut). You may guess I am not a fan. The odds of the carbon Tax actually coming to fruition are not good, unfortunately. We have a Minority Government, an Opposition that is pulling out all stops to axe the tax, unfortunately I feel is also talking down the economy too. Australia is currently performing really well, the average Australian is possibly better off now than at any time in recent history. If you heard the Opposition speaking, you would think we were going down the plughole. I am no fan of either major political party in Australia, but I hope we never have Tony Abbott as PM. Malcolm Turnbull, who is on the opposition front bench, a firm supporter of the need to cut pollution from CO2, made a speech to the Press Club last week, supporting the need for action against Global warming. Hopefully he will soon be Opposition leader in Australia so the Rabbit loses his voice. regards Doug On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 09:26:23 PM Keith Addison wrote: Sweden has been using a carbon tax since 1991. It works. See http://www.carbontax.org http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/25/0/2108273.pdf If markets are to deliver a least-cost economy then prices have to be corrected to include costs external to market transactions. Taxes are the simplest and most efficient way to do this. Alfred Pigou introduced the concept in the 1920s. We're a little slow catching on. :-) Funny, that. Thanks Doug - all best Keith Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On 7/9/2011 8:53 PM, Keith Addison wrote: http://www.truth-out.org/market-lying-why-we-must-tax-carbon-not-subsidiz e-it/1309962187 [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Market Is Lying: Why We Must Tax Carbon, Not Subsidize It
Why not cap and trade and tax carbon. Taxing carbon can give you the immediate benefit that the climate desperately needs. Taxing is something countries can do as individuals that benefits their economic balance sheets upon implementation. Cap and trade has many holes and needs to be ratified by each and every government. Waiting until an enforcable cap and trade system is in place world wide just lets the greenhouse gas pollution continue. The taxes can be phased out as each country wishes perhaps based on their participation and benefit from cap and trade. On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith Addison wrote: Sweden has been using a carbon tax since 1991. It works. See http://www.carbontax.org http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/25/0/2108273.pdf If markets are to deliver a least-cost economy then prices have to be corrected to include costs external to market transactions. Taxes are the simplest and most efficient way to do this. Alfred Pigou introduced the concept in the 1920s. We're a little slow catching on. :-) Funny, that. Thanks Doug - all best Keith I'm not sure of how well that would work on a planetary scale. For one thing, you'd need to get all affected governments to agree on some authority to tax. No, I think cap and trade is the best approach. Cap the carbon at the mine entrance, at the well head. Then trade stuff you have, for other stuff you want. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110714/5665f64e/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Market Is Lying: Why We Must Tax Carbon, Not Subsidize It
The only way to actually 'cap' in a meaningful way, is to cap it at the source. As in, cap it off. - Original Message - From: Thomas Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:12:20 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Market Is Lying: Why We Must Tax Carbon, Not Subsidize It Why not cap and trade and tax carbon. Taxing carbon can give you the immediate benefit that the climate desperately needs. Taxing is something countries can do as individuals that benefits their economic balance sheets upon implementation. Cap and trade has many holes and needs to be ratified by each and every government. Waiting until an enforcable cap and trade system is in place world wide just lets the greenhouse gas pollution continue. The taxes can be phased out as each country wishes perhaps based on their participation and benefit from cap and trade. On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith Addison wrote: Sweden has been using a carbon tax since 1991. It works. See http://www.carbontax.org http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/25/0/2108273.pdf If markets are to deliver a least-cost economy then prices have to be corrected to include costs external to market transactions. Taxes are the simplest and most efficient way to do this. Alfred Pigou introduced the concept in the 1920s. We're a little slow catching on. :-) Funny, that. Thanks Doug - all best Keith I'm not sure of how well that would work on a planetary scale. For one thing, you'd need to get all affected governments to agree on some authority to tax. No, I think cap and trade is the best approach. Cap the carbon at the mine entrance, at the well head. Then trade stuff you have, for other stuff you want. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110714/5665f64e/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Market Is Lying: Why We Must Tax Carbon, Not Subsidize It
Keith Addison wrote: Sweden has been using a carbon tax since 1991. It works. See http://www.carbontax.org http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/25/0/2108273.pdf If markets are to deliver a least-cost economy then prices have to be corrected to include costs external to market transactions. Taxes are the simplest and most efficient way to do this. Alfred Pigou introduced the concept in the 1920s. We're a little slow catching on. :-) Funny, that. Thanks Doug - all best Keith I'm not sure of how well that would work on a planetary scale. For one thing, you'd need to get all affected governments to agree on some authority to tax. No, I think cap and trade is the best approach. Cap the carbon at the mine entrance, at the well head. Then trade stuff you have, for other stuff you want. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Market Is Lying: Why We Must Tax Carbon, Not Subsidize It
Sweden has been using a carbon tax since 1991. It works. See http://www.carbontax.org http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/25/0/2108273.pdf If markets are to deliver a least-cost economy then prices have to be corrected to include costs external to market transactions. Taxes are the simplest and most efficient way to do this. Alfred Pigou introduced the concept in the 1920s. We're a little slow catching on. :-) Funny, that. Thanks Doug - all best Keith Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On 7/9/2011 8:53 PM, Keith Addison wrote: http://www.truth-out.org/market-lying-why-we-must-tax-carbon-not-subsidize-it/1309962187 [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Market Is Lying: Why We Must Tax Carbon, Not Subsidize It
Sweden has been using a carbon tax since 1991. It works. See http://www.carbontax.org http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/25/0/2108273.pdf If markets are to deliver a least-cost economy then prices have to be corrected to include costs external to market transactions. Taxes are the simplest and most efficient way to do this. Alfred Pigou introduced the concept in the 1920s. We're a little slow catching on. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On 7/9/2011 8:53 PM, Keith Addison wrote: http://www.truth-out.org/market-lying-why-we-must-tax-carbon-not-subsidize-it/1309962187 [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] The Market Is Lying: Why We Must Tax Carbon, Not Subsidize It
http://www.truth-out.org/market-lying-why-we-must-tax-carbon-not-subsidize-it/1309962187 The Market Is Lying: Why We Must Tax Carbon, Not Subsidize It Friday 8 July 2011 by: Rinaldo Brutoco and Madeleine Austin, Truthout | News Analysis Remarkably diverse groups across the US political spectrum are calling for a high and rising price on carbon as part of their deficit-reduction strategies. Extremely conservative to very liberal groups are finding common cause. This is a potentially momentous development that could spark the end of the political logjam in the US over energy and climate change policy. Agreeing to Disagree Scientific truth does not depend on what the majority chooses to believe - not today and not in 1633 when Galileo was convicted of heresy for saying that the earth revolves around the sun. He spent the rest of his life under house arrest, but the earth continued in its orbit. Let's face the facts: The earth is not flat. The sun does not revolve around the earth. Climate change is not something that can be altered by attacking those who report it. It's not something that should be swept under the rug for any reason - the survival of human civilization is at stake. But it's also true that more focus on economic and national security issues that transcend political divisions will speed the day when countries around the world adopt smart carbon policies that will make them more globally competitive, revitalize their flagging economies and create jobs for the middle class. An Unprecedented Opportunity for Clean Energy The clean tech sector has an unprecedented market opportunity now that Germany and Switzerland have decided to phase out nuclear power, Italy has blocked its re-launch and Japan has announced plans to redo its energy policy from scratch. Germany's decision to phase out nuclear power by 2022 means that the world's third-largest economy plans to replace 23 percent of its power in 11 years. Japan, the world's fourth-largest economy, which now gets 30 percent of its electricity from nuclear plants, plans to install solar panels on ten million homes, while cutting the cost of solar power by two-thirds by 2020. Its richest man, who broke open the country's telecommunications market years ago, is moving into solar power, tackling utility bottlenecks and eyeing the potential profits from more efficient solar cells. Nuclear power's likely downward slope is just one of three critical energy developments this year, as Michael Klare vividly describes. The second is the turmoil in the Middle East and North Africa, which could spread to Saudi Arabia and other major oil producers in the Gulf. Even if the Saudis' big spending on public handouts manages to keep the lid on popular protests, the government won't be able to ramp up oil production enough to make up for falling production elsewhere unless it spends hundreds of billions of dollars to build the infrastructure to get out the heavier, tough oil left in its reserves. Its easy oil is running out, although the precise degree of exhaustion of Saudi fields is a state secret. The third key energy development is the intense drought over the past year in Australia, China, Russia, parts of the Middle East, South America, the United States and most recently northern Europe. In addition to driving up food prices, the drought has led to sharp drops in river levels and hydroelectric power plants' output. China's loss of hydropower has created severe electricity shortages and increased its demand for imported oil - which will drive oil prices higher. All three of these developments portend unprecedented growth in the global clean energy sector. Countries that want a piece of the action need sound energy policies that send price signals to businesses, investors and citizens that will shift their spending from fossil fuels to clean energy. The Market Is Not Telling the Truth The market is not telling the truth about the cost of fossil fuels. You can't believe the price at the gas pump. People pay twice for a tank of gas - once at the pump and once when they pay their taxes. In 2009, global subsidies for fossil fuels were 12 times as great as subsidies for renewables, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance. The $4 billion in annual US taxpayer subsidies for Big Oil, the wealthiest industry on the planet, comes in many different forms. Many indirect subsidies aren't included in that number, such as the billions spent on the military's efforts to maintain the security of the Middle East oil pipeline. One form of subsidy in particular is too often overlooked - pollution. All pollution is a subsidy. By tolerating pollution, we've made a policy decision to let corporations foist some of their costs onto the public. We need to undo this transfer and put the off-balance sheet health and environmental costs of corporations' carbon pollution back where they belong - with the
