Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood please compliment
Hi Brain Rodgers Gypsym can be used as depolymerizing and delignication agente for removal of lignin at hiher temperatature , making possivel cellulose seperation , and hence , sugar and alcohol production sd Pannirselvam On 8/4/05, Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Manick You are fortunate to have walking encyclopedia in your dad. Nurture him well. During my morning run I stopped by the area where Dad was attaching wire to the steel posts I pounded in over the weekend. (Patting myself on the back here for nurturing.) Hehe Anyway, Dad said it was nice to hear your compliment and he was encouraged. He explained the deal with the gypsum. I admitted I had no idea how gypsum was involved with biomass processing. I am still a bit unclear and asked him to get me a link or write it down so I can study the theory and maybe it will sink in. He also said that he queried the UNM Chemistry department of which he is alumni about which University was actively working on the cellulose to sugar process. They didn't know. Does anyone here know the answer to this question? Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Pagandai V Pannirselvam Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CT Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence : Av Odilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 Capim Macio EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210 32171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular 84 88145083 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood please compliment
Thank you for the info. I will need to lookup these terms of course. It does give me more to work with. I do appreciate this. Gypsym can be used as depolymerizing and delignication agente for removal of lignin at hiher temperatature , making possivel cellulose seperation , and hence , sugar and alcohol production sd Pannirselvam Oh Boy! I looked the first one up then asked my wife (she knows more about biology than me) about depolymerizing complex molecules. It is a great feeling when we can all work together on a problem if only to help more of us to understand. Thanks again I feel like I am making headway. Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood please compliment
Thanks Manick You are fortunate to have walking encyclopedia in your dad. Nurture him well. During my morning run I stopped by the area where Dad was attaching wire to the steel posts I pounded in over the weekend. (Patting myself on the back here for nurturing.) Hehe Anyway, Dad said it was nice to hear your compliment and he was encouraged. He explained the deal with the gypsum. I admitted I had no idea how gypsum was involved with biomass processing. I am still a bit unclear and asked him to get me a link or write it down so I can study the theory and maybe it will sink in. He also said that he queried the UNM Chemistry department of which he is alumni about which University was actively working on the cellulose to sugar process. They didnt know. Does anyone here know the answer to this question? Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] ethanol from wood please compliment
Hi Brian, You are fortunate to have walking encyclopedia in your dad. Nurture him well. Thank you too Manick. Yes, my Dad stills gets around on the ranch. We are grateful that his health is holding and truth is I am kind of hoping that I look that good when and if I live to be 87 years old. pressurised SO3 being a gas would mix better than LIQUID, without heavy milling machine. Great now you are really going where I want to go. In Las Vegas NM (where our PC repair shop is) last week I talked to an environmentalist at Highlands University who is among other things, working on a big problem here in the SW USA, an over abundance of small diameter trees choking the forest and creating a wildfire hazard like never before. He was saying that USDA Forests Products Laboratory has an ultra expensive portable device capable of using forest waste products, like wood chips to convert it to some type of fuel. Sorry to be so vague but as soon as I heard the price tag of this magic box I barely gave it another thought. What I passionately believe is regular people need workable methods (within their means) to produce at least some part of their own fuel. Thanks very much for "been there done that" compliment. It will keep me going in good spirit. This is a very important point. "going in good spirit." This is almost as important to me as the final results of whatever process I decide to experiment with. I am not talking about looking up exercise on the Internet as a viable process to lose weight. We do need to research what we are going to try and nobody that I am aware is capable of producing energy with less than fantastic enthusiasm. How do we get this ENTHUSIASM? This is the main reason I joined this group and I want to thank everyone for giving me back some of my enthusiasm. Right now I am in the process of building a brand new workshop at the ranch. It would be easy to lose sight of my goal as I toil away digging ditches and building concrete foundations. In the end I know I will again be able to design, experiment and build my own energy saving and energy creating devices at my home for my home and cars. I have prepared creosote and wood tars as rubber plasticizers, giving excellent energy damping properties. This I did by cooking by slow pyrolysis of the wood up to 500C in a drum fitted with condenser. Products: charcoal(30%), tar(7%), acetic acid (6%),methanol (1.5%), wood gas ( 25%), the rest being water. The tar dissoles in caustic soda NaOH and is easily applied to woodfor protection against termites.Acetic acid can be recovered from water phase byproper solvent and distllation. Methanol is easily separated from water phase by fractional ditillation. It is like ethanol in properties and could be used as auto fuel. Although I worked with Malaysian hardwoods there is plenty of similar data/literature on softwoods like pine.I think you can definitely put these ideas to work Brian. Good luck! I definitely want to try some of these things. One in particular is the gasification of wood. I recently seeded a group at our local Tech school with information from the Journey to Forever web site. The students were amazed that a car or tractor can be run from a wood fire! One group started a club called alternative fuel vehicles. It is very encouraging to see the youth of my town take an interest in these topics. While I attended the local university working on my degree in electronics I designed the accelerator electronics for the schools electric car experiment, this was back in the eighties. Boy they have come a long ways in going back to old tech. LOL Sincerely, Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood please compliment
Hi Brian, You are fortunate to have walking encyclopedia in your dad. Nurture him well.Yes pressurised SO3 being a gas would mix better than LIQUID, without heavy milling machine.It is just a suggestion. Thanks very much for "been there done that" compliment. It will keep me going in good spirit. I have prepared creosote and wood tars as rubber plasticizers, giving excellent energy damping properties. This I did by cooking by slow pyrolysis of the wood up to 500C in a drum fitted with condenser. Products: charcoal(30%), tar(7%), acetic acid (6%),methanol (1.5%), wood gas ( 25%), the rest being water. The tar dissoles in caustic soda NaOH and is easily applied to woodfor protection against termites.Acetic acid can be recovered from water phase byproper solvent and distllation. Methanol is easily separated from water phase by fractional ditillation. It is like ethanol in properties and could be used as auto fuel. Although I worked with Malaysian hardwoods there is plenty of similar data/literature on softwoods like pine.I think you can definitely put these ideas to work Brian. Good luck!Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the note Manick.It sounds like you have "been there done that" with cellulose to sugar to ethanol.Every technological term in you letter sends me off looking up meanings.Thank goodness for GoogleSO3 Sulphur Trioxide, my search found that this can be a byproduct of coal powered energy plants. I am not sure how this fits into the equation yet but I almost always need to sleep on it to get the big picture. I don't suppose you could enlighten us? Are we attempting to break out the sugar with SO3? Similar to what the Sulphuric Acid bath does to the sawdust? My Dad is a retired chemist, his specialty back in the fifties sixties when it was still fashionable was coal tar products and creosote. It is interesting that you note that a by product of this idea of yours is creosote. Unfortunately for us, my Dad just turned 87 years old on Friday and it has been quite a while since he has done research and chemistry. Just the same I will run your idea by him and see if any lights come on. By the way, Dad wrote a letter to University New Mexico where he is Alumni and asked if they are working on this wood waste as a biomass problem. He told me they did write back but I dont have any details yet. Brian Rodgers Manick Harris wrote:I used sawdust from Malaysian hardwoods like Meranti. I think any cellulosic material will do. One report states concentrated sulphuric acid and sawdust can also be milled together ( try !:1 ratio initially) into glucose at room temperature, ie 25C. This could be attempted with 2 roll mill set very close together,say 0.02mm. If this works how about gassing sawdust with SO3 ( ex gypsum) under pressure in a vessel? The residue I got was dark lignin which could be broken down into creosote for protection against termites and rubber filler giving excellent damping or energy absorption beit mechanical or electromagnetic as in radar shielding. Just a thought: we could proof planes this way to escape enemy radar. Excuse me if my thoughts go astray but it seems viable to pursue direct hydrolysis of biomass. Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is very cool. I have seen this process somewhere. H2SO4, that is Sulphuric Acid right? I have a friend with a small sawmill and a 2000 gallon tank sitting idle, he is going to use it for rainwater collection. I asked him if he ever fermented sawdust. He said, It composts pretty well when we get a little rain. He was keen on the idea of trying, but shied away from the idea of putting Sulphuric acid in the tank to shock the glucose. I told him we would wash it out real quick, LOL. So yeah I am hoping that another way to break down the cellulose has been developed. I have heard of enzymes and mushroom spoor but nothing very miraculous yet, Hoping rather naively Im afraid. Brian Rodgers P.S. What type of wood did you use? I understand it makes a difference. We have mainly Ponderosa Pine Trees. Manick Harris wrote: I did this in the 80s as an one-time expt. Boiled sawdust in 30% H2SO4 for 3h, neutralised with lime, filtered and fermented the sugar with yeast into alcohol which was recovered by distillation. Reckon sawdust/biomass waste can be obtained at v.low cost. Cost of H2SO4 can be offset by value of CaSO4,gypsum, which is a saleable commodity. Yet no takers anywhere currently, despite rising petrol prices. Sad really because we are inhibited society really. Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new here, but this certainly looks like the place to be. I my opinion looking at ethanol strictly from a BTU to create over BTU available leaves out too many important variables. Even if with Ethanols numbers looking dismally uneconomical to many people who I will call naysayers the clincher for me is ethanol comes from a renewable resource corn. If we can figure out a way to break down the cellulose in wood waste
