John, I see Martin has already pointed out a couple of websites to contradict your postulations with facts. I particularly like Chip Gribben's article on the topic. It's been a stopper for the "electric cars pollute more than gas cars" myth for some years now.
However, I want to take issue with some of your other comments. First, electric cars don't have the same problem as hydrogen cars. Electric cars exist in credible numbers based on robust and proven technologies; hydrogen cars exist in automakers public relations fleets only, and there are significant R&D hurdles remaining for them before they can be considered practical. As near as I can make out, the world population of hydrogen cars is still well under 200 vehicles, and many of those are long defunct. Electric cars exist in considerable numbers (see http://www.econogics.com/ev/evwhere.htm for a sample listing). Off- road, electric vehicle technology is prolific. Second, electric cars run on electricity. Hydrogen cars run on fossil fuels. Over 90% of hydrogen produced commercially today comes from the steam reforming of natural gas. Hydrogen can be produced from electricity (electrolysis), but it's a really bad idea in terms of efficiency and practicality. For more, see http://www.econogics.com/en/heconomy.htm . Third, battery-electric cars are more efficient than hydrogen cars, by a considerable margin. Nuclear energy is a really poor way to produce electricity. It is inefficient. It is expensive. It produces a form of pollution we have not managed to dispose of in over 50 years of operations. (There is only one "permanent" nuclear waste disposal site on the planet. Chernobyl. And it's sarcophagus is deteriorating.) It is a part of the nuclear weapons feedstock. Uranium mining is lethal. Uranium mining and refining tailings are toxic. Whether or not increased use of electric cars will produce a net increase in CO2 depends on what assumptions you make about the means of producing the electricity. There are sources that do not produce CO2 (e.g. wind, photovoltaics, hydro, geothermal). Most electric vehicles are charged overnight, when demand for electricity is low. The electrical generating industry has stated for years (see EPRI studies) that millions of EVs could be charged with no increase in generating capacity being required. Additional fuel may be required, but it does not necessarily have to be fossil fuels (e.g. landfill gas, biomass waste products, other biofuels, the non-CO2 producers noted previously, or even the existing nuclear plants which typically supply the bulk of baseload, i.e. night time, generation in the areas where they are located). By the way, the inefficiency of batteries is roughly 10%, which is primarily a function of the charger being used. Smarter chargers do better. The key advantage of electrics is their efficiency, typically in the order of 75% or better (from charging outlet to wheels). Gas cars, in urban use (hybrids excluded) typically manage less than 15% efficiency (from pump to wheels). Now, given that a battery electric is about 75% efficient, and that transmission and distribution losses for the electrical grid average about 6%, and a typical power plant is 40% efficient or better, for a system efficiency of approximately 28% (assuming fossil fuel primary source - worst case), and a gas car is about 15% efficient (not counting losses associated with exploration, drilling, refining, storage and transport to your local gas station), how do you figure that "Net CO2 output from coal after inefficiency of batteries and the like are taken into account is far higher than gas vehicles"? You discount the impact of moving the point of combustion as though it is irrelevant. It is not. Electric cars produce no emissions at point of use, which for the most part is in our urban areas, where air quality is the lowest and human populations are highest. In addition, it is much easier to clean up one smokestack than 100,000 tailpipes. In terms of emissions control, smokestacks get cleaner with age (better technology is retrofitted). Tailpipes get dirtier with age. Given the dispersion issues and the proximity to human lungs, "moving the smoke plume" can actually produce significant advantages. CO2 is not the major factor when it comes to somatic health effects. Please note that electric vehicles excel in stop-and-go city driving where we do most of our driving, and where internal combustion engines fare worst due to the amount of time spent idling and accelerating and the short periods spent cruising at steady speeds. Electric cars have the potential to become zero-emissions, depending on the source of the electricity. Internal combustion engines cannot aspire to accomplish the same. Darryl McMahon "John Woolsey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Think about it. Electric cars have the same problem as hydrogen cars. There > is no > free supply of electricity. The only way to produce relatively polution free > vehicles would be to have all electrical power produced by nuclear energy. > Right now > any increase in electrical energy consumption is generally produced by coal. > Net CO2 > output from coal after inefficiency of batteries and the like are taken into > account > is far higher than gas vehicles. > > As my air modeling friend told me. Electric vehicles are just a moving the > smoke > plume issue. > > - bfn - JAW > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 17:33:14 -0400 > > >John Woolsey wrote: > > > >>Things that have been irritating me: > >>Electric cars produce more polution and CO2 than gas cars. Remember > >>marginal electricity is produced by Coal in NA. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >You said it, now prove it. > >-- > >Martin Klingensmith > > > > -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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