Re: [Biofuel] debunking popular myths... was Robin's solution
Lisa --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Lisa Lets avoid the personal attacks and stick to a discussion of the facts. ls Todd discussed the facts and you're trying to squirm out from under. Now stop it and give him an honest response. The nationmaster link states that 10 tons of Pu have been released. At approx 10 kilos per bomb, thats a bunch of big bangs. So hypothetically, I would guess that much more than half a kilo has already been distributed worldwide. Have you got your share of cancer yet? I'm not suggesting that worldwide distribution of plutonium is a good idea, but rather that facts rather than media hype serve a better purpose. Why are you then distributing media hype here, or, worse, fraudulent and contentious material designed to lead astray, apparently without bothering to check it first? Stop your squirming and deal with what's being put in front of you. That's the second time. Finally, I don't think you know much about media hype, and attempting to awaken this list to its perils in the way you claim you're doing would indicate that you haven't been paying a lot of attention to what goes on here. The list archives is definitely one of the better places on the Internet to consult if you want to know about media hype. It's obvious that you haven't been there. I don't think that's what you're really after anyway, it's just a smokescreen. Having trouble are we Lisa? Maybe blundering into an evolved and long-established community and trying to lay down the law when you've only been here a week or so and haven't bothered to do any research on it isn't such a grand idea after all, eh? Anyway, let's have reasoned and substantive responses to Todd, John Hayes, Bob Molloy and the rest please, don't delay, and no more selective snipping. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Don't forget I'm NOT pro-nuclear. ls ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] debunking popular myths... was Robin's solution
Keep in mind that acceptable risk is not a matter of how many in one million contract a malady, I do not know if it is the same in the US or OZ but we have an epidemic of thyroid problems in the UK. In the 50/60s young people with thyroid disease was extremely rare now I find my local chemist runs out of tablets for treating hyperthyroid most weeks. My local area hospital gets 600 new cases a month. There is a great big wall of silence when people ask what is causing this problem but its definitely not nuclear pollution they say. I think the s--t has already hit the fan and we are not being told about it. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club (http://www.wessexferretclub.co.uk) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 04/06/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] debunking popular myths... was Robin's solution
...and while we're debunking popular myths lets nail this one too. Plutonium, the most significant element in nuclear waste, is so carcinogenic that hypothetically half a kilo evenly distributed could cause cancer in everyone on Earth. By Dr. Helen Caldicott It is worth a look here for a reality check: http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Plutonium I am NOT in favor of nuclear power, however media hype misinformation like the quote above only discredits the good work of the anti-nuclear movement. ls --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi John and all It's crap anyway, Robin Williams didn't write it: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/williams.asp Urban Legends Reference Pages: Politics (Robin Williams) False. It's not even new, it's been doing the rounds for two years. Best wishes Keith __ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] debunking popular myths... was Robin's solution
Lisa, You're not debunking any myth. What you're doing is sidetracking the truth through an act of omission. Plutonium when ingested is essentially regarded as relatively harmless (not entirely, but relatively) as it's biological residence time is so short. In fact, notorious nuclear zealot Bernard (Bernie) Cohen offered to eat a gram of plutonium at one time and challenged Ralph Nader to do the same, so sure was/is he of that particular form of uptake. Oddly enough, Cohen never followed through and Nader never agreed - probably both for very good reasons, several of them being the same. Cohen saw no reason to risk the expedition of his inevitable mortality for a grandstand play and Nader saw no reason to add plutonium to his breakfast cereal as an acceptable risk. Keep in mind that acceptable risk is not a matter of how many in one million contract a malady, but WHICH persons in one million contract a malady. It's not a risk, it's a lottery - with guarantee that someone or some number of persons out of every million will pull the losing ticket. In the same breath, Cohen's theatrics don't preclude the inescapable and under-played fact that.plutonium if inhaled will almost certainly act as a mutagen and is an almost inevitable precedent to cancer due to the longer residency period embedded in the lungs. Same thing can happen to the liver with ingestion, but not as readily as the lungs with inhalation. Dr. Caldicott is spot on in her assessment/statement/belief as to the carcinogenicity of plutonium when present in an airborne environment. Can you spell dirty bomb? What you need to do is pay very strong attention to the brief mention in paragraph three under the subsection Precautions at the very website you referred the list to - http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Plutonium Or perform a single Google search using the two words plutonium and inhalation in the same breath. What you'll get is 49 out of 50 hits that downplay inhalation and spend pages upon pages on ingestion and carnival tricks like Cohen's. Mixed in there will be the truth that all scientists familiar with the properties of plutonium acknowledge - inclusive of Bernard Cohen. Or, you can continue to assess the truth as myth and lend yourself to the continued dis-informing, mis-informing and propagandizing of others. Todd Swearingen .lisa simpson wrote: ...and while we're debunking popular myths lets nail this one too. Plutonium, the most significant element in nuclear waste, is so carcinogenic that hypothetically half a kilo evenly distributed could cause cancer in everyone on Earth. By Dr. Helen Caldicott It is worth a look here for a reality check: http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Plutonium I am NOT in favor of nuclear power, however media hype misinformation like the quote above only discredits the good work of the anti-nuclear movement. ls --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi John and all It's crap anyway, Robin Williams didn't write it: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/williams.asp Urban Legends Reference Pages: Politics (Robin Williams) False. It's not even new, it's been doing the rounds for two years. Best wishes Keith __ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] debunking popular myths... was Robin's solution
Lets avoid the personal attacks and stick to a discussion of the facts. ls Or, you can continue to assess the truth as myth and lend yourself to the continued dis-informing, mis-informing and propagandizing of others. Todd Swearingen __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] debunking popular myths... was Robin's solution
Hello Lisa Lets avoid the personal attacks and stick to a discussion of the facts. ls Todd discussed the facts and you're trying to squirm out from under. Now stop it and give him an honest response. Whether you see it a personal attack or not, you are most certainly propagandizing here. You propagated one rather odious urban myth, the allegedly Robin Williams plan, and when it's exposed as a fraud you immediately propagate another, pretty bare-faced and not even a sorry. Re Robin Williams, there's been substantive debunking of that too, but you're trying the same squirm-out there: yes, I've noticed that most of the criticism is the shoot the messenger variety. I'd prefer to discuss content, and comments like xenophobic rant and load of bull are not discussion. ls Sorry Lisa, things just don't work that way here. Nor in life, even if they might seem to at first. Shape up or shut up - and you don't have the option of shutting up either, you have to respond to the replies your posts engender, and you have to do it honestly. And quickly. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Or, you can continue to assess the truth as myth and lend yourself to the continued dis-informing, mis-informing and propagandizing of others. Todd Swearingen ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] debunking popular myths... was Robin's solution
Seems to me I did exactly that about 2 posts back and you've completely ignored them, but I'll recapitulate them here. Regarding ANWR, at peak production in 2025, it will only reduce US foreign oil consumption by 3 to 6%. Conversely, raising the CAFE standards could do at least twice that, but within the last month, the Senate Energy subcommittee voted against raising CAFE standards. If 9/11 changed everything, and the President is serious about reducing dependence on foreign oil, why is the Senate voteing down increases in the CAFE standard? Regarding foreign students, those foreign students make up the bulk of math and engineering students in American universities. Ejecting them from the US at age 21, as suggested by your email, is economically shortsighted. According to the Wall Street Journal, that biased leftwing pinko wetback loving rag: Any policy that would depress the influx or close off our borders altogether is not in America's long-term interest, especially in a world where economic growth and competitiveness will depend above all on human capital. According to Stuart Anderson, former staff director of the Senate Immigration Subcommittee, foreign-born high school students recently comprised 50% of the 2004 U.S Math Olympiad's top scorers, 38% of the U.S. Physics Team and 25% of the Intel Science Talent Search finalists. Here's some relevant links: http://www.techcentralstation.com/082004C.html http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/4520-6033_16-4206315.html So Lisa, there you go. Discuss. jh lisa simpson wrote: Lets avoid the personal attacks and stick to a discussion of the facts. ls Or, you can continue to assess the truth as myth and lend yourself to the continued dis-informing, mis-informing and propagandizing of others. Todd Swearingen __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- John E Hayes, M.S. Instructor, Dietetics Program, DIET 203 / DIET 215 Doctoral Student, Nutritional Sciences University of Connecticut - 326 Koons Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 860.486.0007 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] debunking popular myths... was Robin's solution
Ms. Simpson, Go back and read what was written. It was an option that you could exercise, whether knowingly or not. It was far from a personal attack. You'll know a personal attack beyond any shadow of a doubt should there ever be cause for one to occur. So as you suggested, let's stick to a discussion of the facts. That includes what was written, not what wasn't. Todd Swearingen lisa simpson wrote: Lets avoid the personal attacks and stick to a discussion of the facts. ls Or, you can continue to assess the truth as myth and lend yourself to the continued dis-informing, mis-informing and propagandizing of others. Todd Swearingen __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] debunking popular myths... was Robin's solution
sorry, ls, it is *you* who is attacking, by playing the victim. todd's comment was not an attack as you well know. he was criticising *your* failure to examine the facts adequately, and challenging you to do so. your selective quote intended to misrepresent his meaning amounts to nothing more or less than a slur on his character. and how does your mis-attributed robin williams post amount to discussion of the facts? unless a series of ethno-religious, hate-mongering slurs amounts to discussion. to whit, and i paraphrase, it's the older ones that bomb?!? and jerry's remarks, about 'good ole advise' and who 'voted for clinton'; this is discussing the facts? i suppose maybe it is in a way, if the intent is to define 'us' and 'them' so now, you've been called out on your misrepresentations and failed arguments, and your response is to cry foul? you can do better. or was that your intent all along? to sow some friction until the exchanges reached just the right temperature for you to insert your devastating barbs about personal attacks. in this way 'shaming' others into cooling their supposedly overheated jets, and in so doing asserting your obviously higher authority. this is an old, tired tactic which won't work here. i prefer to think you know better. so give us something real. come on, we're dying here. -chris oh, no you DI-in't! superman In a message dated 6/5/05 6:05:14 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lets avoid the personal attacks and stick to a discussion of the facts. ls Or, you can continue to assess the truth as myth and lend yourself to the continued dis-informing, mis-informing and propagandizing of others. Todd Swearingen ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] debunking popular myths... was Robin's solution
Awww, that's okay capt3d, I've been slobbered, drooled on and thoroughly drenched by enough infants in my day as to not much worry about it anymore and tend to treat it all as part of normal fare. Slurring is righ up there with involuntary actions for some. So I shouldn't be overly dismayed there either. As for this... i prefer to think you know better. Might I suggest that you be careful about this mindset, or at least the manner in which you internally police it? Where I come from, there are a lot of people counting on being given the benefit of whatever doubt they may be able to manipulate or create and in turn get far more rope than they deserve. Todd Swearingen sorry, ls, it is *you* who is attacking, by playing the victim. todd's comment was not an attack as you well know. he was criticising *your* failure to examine the facts adequately, and challenging you to do so. your selective quote intended to misrepresent his meaning amounts to nothing more or less than a slur on his character. and how does your mis-attributed robin williams post amount to discussion of the facts? unless a series of ethno-religious, hate-mongering slurs amounts to discussion. to whit, and i paraphrase, it's the older ones that bomb?!? and jerry's remarks, about 'good ole advise' and who 'voted for clinton'; this is discussing the facts? i suppose maybe it is in a way, if the intent is to define 'us' and 'them' so now, you've been called out on your misrepresentations and failed arguments, and your response is to cry foul? you can do better. or was that your intent all along? to sow some friction until the exchanges reached just the right temperature for you to insert your devastating barbs about personal attacks. in this way 'shaming' others into cooling their supposedly overheated jets, and in so doing asserting your obviously higher authority. this is an old, tired tactic which won't work here. i prefer to think you know better. so give us something real. come on, we're dying here. -chris oh, no you DI-in't! superman In a message dated 6/5/05 6:05:14 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lets avoid the personal attacks and stick to a discussion of the facts. ls Or, you can continue to assess the truth as myth and lend yourself to the continued dis-informing, mis-informing and propagandizing of others. Todd Swearingen ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] debunking popular myths... was Robin's solution
--- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Lisa Lets avoid the personal attacks and stick to a discussion of the facts. ls Todd discussed the facts and you're trying to squirm out from under. Now stop it and give him an honest response. The nationmaster link states that 10 tons of Pu have been released. At approx 10 kilos per bomb, thats a bunch of big bangs. So hypothetically, I would guess that much more than half a kilo has already been distributed worldwide. Have you got your share of cancer yet? I'm not suggesting that worldwide distribution of plutonium is a good idea, but rather that facts rather than media hype serve a better purpose. Don't forget I'm NOT pro-nuclear. ls __ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
