Re: Re: Re: [Biofuel] Noble gesture by Bush
Jefferson, now and again, was a very wise man. I believe George Washington also echoed those sentiments about foreign entanglements. For those who would like a better summary than I can give of the anti-Bush logic, there is an Adobe Acrobat chapter online by George Soros (the billionaire) called The Iraqi Quagmire. It is available for downloading at http://www.georgesoros.com The actual download is at: http://www.georgesoros.com/soros_chapter_four.pdf I particularly like the part on page 58 about the (remember, this is chapter four, so it's not page 58 of the download). Anyway, it reflects the statement I made below about Bush restating Kerry's logic. Bush took a chance relying on the WMD argument, hoping, I guess, that we would indeed find WMD in Iraq, or, more likely, if the invasion was a success, no one would care to question the logic. What he underestimated was the amount of resources it would take to mount an occupation. About the pro-Israel (Zionist) lobby. A lot of born-again Christians in the U.S. support Bush, and also Israel, mistakingly thinking that, since Christianity was born in Judiasm, that they should therefore support Israel and some of them even look forward to the Apocalypse.Page 53 of Soro's chapter four makes an interesting comment: Since the apocalypse involves the destruction if Israel, Israel might be better off without friends like this. There were Jews in Palestine long before Israel came about in 1948. They were scattered among the Arabs for centuries, and there were conflicts between different peoples for centuries. The Crusades came about because the Ottoman Empire (I think this is right) invaded Europe, and this was Europe's response. Also, Britain, in particular, was worried about Russia and used this Arab area as a sort of buffer. The Islamic religion was born from Judiasm and Christianity, even as Christianity was born from Judiasm. No one can change what has happened down through the centuries, and there have been a lot of wrongs on all sides. More hating and fighting isn't going to solve anything, but that is exactly human nature seems to be about. The U.S. is caught in the middle, ostensibly because of its lust for oil. But what would these countries do if suddenly the U.S. found another source of energy and announced that it didn't really need to import the oil? What if we dropped Israel altogether and left it to fend for itself? Would these Islamic extremists be satisfied. Or would they still want to exterminate us? What is their real agenda? On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Senator Kerry's speech in Congress of Oct. 9, 2002, in which Kerry said, I believe the record of Saddam Hussein's ruthless, reckless breach of international values and standards of behavioris cause enough for the world community to hold him accountable by use of force, if necessary... After he had outlived his usefulness in making war on Iran, murdering the local Communists, suppressing the Kurds, etc. Saddam must be feeling the force of the Earl of Strafford's exhortation, as he was about to have his head chopped off for outliving his usefulness to Charles I: Put not your trust in princes. Rumsfeld, Reagan and company were probably as guilty of the crime under the Nuremburg principles, of waging aggressive war on Iran in the 80's, as Bush, Rumsfeld and company are for waging aggressive war on Iraq. But, then, Nuremburg was for losers. Anyone who reads the Federalist Papers, the writings of Thomas Jefferson, etc,; will be aware that one reason that the U.S. Founding Fathers wished to avoid foreign entanglements and foreign wars, was that they thought that a constitutional republic could not not long exist in a state devoted to self-aggrandizement by war (except against the Indians). They were wise. As Jefferson put it, I tremble for my country, when I reflect that God is just. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Email sent using Grand River Mutual's Web E-mail (http://www.grm.net) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Re: Re: [Biofuel] Noble gesture by Bush
into the blood-drenched ditches of yet another Zionist atrocity. When the USS Liberty was attacked, who did it? Israel. When Lybia was attacked who set it up to look as if they had something to do with the niteclub bombing ? Israel's Mossad and a false flag op. Who's official moto is By Way of Deception Thou Shalt do War ? Israel's Mossad. Do the deed but be sure you leave a fresh passport behind so eveyone will know who to point the finger at. Just like Judas Iscariot was called a disciple but turned out to be a traitor, so too are these called Christian but deny the very faith they claim to live by.Traitors,each and every one. Jesus said, why call ye me Lord Lord and DO NOT the things that I ask? like love God and each other, which He said were the only two comandments that were necessary? Is that what these so-called christians are doing when they support oil grabs and the slaughter of innocent babies in sovereign lands? There were no WMD's, there is no connection between Saddam and Al Queda, there is no connection between Saddam and 9-11, so all of these amount to what Bush et company of Zionist neocons have done are wars crimes, the Congressional authority not being in force when he lied to the world and invaded Iraq. So not only are the so-called christian-zionists hypocrites and traitors to their faith but they are also suporting international crimes. The UN has declared the Iraq war illegal. The Congressioanl authority was conditional on the aforementioned events which did not and do not exits, so even under US law the war is ... illegal. Crimes, all of it and these so-called christians support it all blindly leading the blind and falling into whatever ditch they care to drag the world into. There is such a thing as righteous indignation and tis is mine. Luc - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 1:37 PM Subject: Re: Re: Re: [Biofuel] Noble gesture by Bush Jefferson, now and again, was a very wise man. I believe George Washington also echoed those sentiments about foreign entanglements. For those who would like a better summary than I can give of the anti-Bush logic, there is an Adobe Acrobat chapter online by George Soros (the billionaire) called The Iraqi Quagmire. It is available for downloading at http://www.georgesoros.com The actual download is at: http://www.georgesoros.com/soros_chapter_four.pdf I particularly like the part on page 58 about the (remember, this is chapter four, so it's not page 58 of the download). Anyway, it reflects the statement I made below about Bush restating Kerry's logic. Bush took a chance relying on the WMD argument, hoping, I guess, that we would indeed find WMD in Iraq, or, more likely, if the invasion was a success, no one would care to question the logic. What he underestimated was the amount of resources it would take to mount an occupation. About the pro-Israel (Zionist) lobby. A lot of born-again Christians in the U.S. support Bush, and also Israel, mistakingly thinking that, since Christianity was born in Judiasm, that they should therefore support Israel and some of them even look forward to the Apocalypse.Page 53 of Soro's chapter four makes an interesting comment: Since the apocalypse involves the destruction if Israel, Israel might be better off without friends like this. There were Jews in Palestine long before Israel came about in 1948. They were scattered among the Arabs for centuries, and there were conflicts between different peoples for centuries. The Crusades came about because the Ottoman Empire (I think this is right) invaded Europe, and this was Europe's response. Also, Britain, in particular, was worried about Russia and used this Arab area as a sort of buffer. The Islamic religion was born from Judiasm and Christianity, even as Christianity was born from Judiasm. No one can change what has happened down through the centuries, and there have been a lot of wrongs on all sides.More hating and fighting isn't going to solve anything, but that is exactly human nature seems to be about. The U.S. is caught in the middle, ostensibly because of its lust for oil. But what would these countries do if suddenly the U.S. found another source of energy and announced that it didn't really need to import the oil? What if we dropped Israel altogether and left it to fend for itself? Would these Islamic extremists be satisfied. Or would they still want to exterminate us? What is their real agenda? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Email sent using Grand River Mutual's Web E-mail (http://www.grm.net
Re: Re: [Biofuel] Noble gesture by Bush
Actually, I think Bush must have gotten the idea as to how to explain the reason that it was still the right thing to have gone to war in Iraq, even though no WMD have been found, from Senator Kerry's speech in Congress of Oct. 9, 2002, in which Kerry said, I believe the record of Saddam Hussein's ruthless, reckless breach of international values and standards of behavioris cause enough for the world community to hold him accountable by use of force, if necessary... (Complete speech can be found in the Congressional Record) And to bring democracy to Iraq, of course. Bush simplified the words a lot: Bad guy, good war, bring good democracy to Iraqis. Or something like that. No wonder Bush snickers every time Kerry says he was tricked into voting to authorize the use of force. Hello All ; Congressman Ron Paul, in Ron Pauls' Freedom Report, March 2004 : Since no weapons of mass destruction or link to al Qaeda have been found in Iraq, the explanation given now for having gone there was top bring democracy to the Iraqi people. Yet now we hear that the Iraqis are demanding immediate free elections not controlled by the United States and our administration says the Iraqi people are not yet ready for free elections. THE TRUTH IS THAT A NATIONAL ELECTION IN IRAQ WOULD BRING INDIVIDUALS TO POWER THAT THE ADMINISTRATION DOESN'T WANT. Democratic elections will have to wait. Cheers. --- Ken Riznyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess Bush has to inflate the numbers, because 3,000 is a small number compared to the other atrocities that have occurred. Already there are about 12,000 Iraqi civilians killed 20,000 died in Bhopal, neither Union Carbide nor Dow which bought Union Carbide has paid one penny in reparation. 1 million died in the Rawanda massacre who knows how may are dying in Dakar 40,000 are slaughtered each year on American highways half by drunk drivers 10 million African babies die each year from starvation 1 million Armenians were massacared by the Turks Hitler exterminated 10 million Stalin killed about 20 million And the land of liberty and freedom, now committed to granting democracy to others, completely decimated its native population in its formative years, Done with my soap box ranting Ken --- Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Following some of the election speeches by Bush, he is talking by the 3,800+ Americans that died at WTC. If I am not completely misinformed, about half of them were foreign nationals originally, but they must have been adopted by presidential decree or some other mechanism. A very nice gesture, but the problem I have, were they asked before they became Americans? I heard that if you are born on American soil, you are automatically American or have the right to be, I did not know that it was the same case if you died on American soil. Hakan ___ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Email sent using Grand River Mutual's Web E-mail (http://www.grm.net) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Re: [Biofuel] Noble gesture by Bush
Let's see, October 9, 2002. That would be when the phony intelligence still said that we would find WMD? Sure, nothing has changed in the two years since then, so you can still use that to explain anything, right? Bush--Stands firmly by what he believes, no matter how wrong he is proven to be. Brian Actually, I think Bush must have gotten the idea as to how to explain the reason that it was still the right thing to have gone to war in Iraq, even though no WMD have been found, from Senator Kerry's speech in Congress of Oct. 9, 2002, in which Kerry said, I believe the record of Saddam Hussein's ruthless, reckless breach of international values and standards of behavioris cause enough for the world community to hold him accountable by use of force, if necessary... (Complete speech can be found in the Congressional Record) And to bring democracy to Iraq, of course. Bush simplified the words a lot: Bad guy, good war, bring good democracy to Iraqis. Or something like that. No wonder Bush snickers every time Kerry says he was tricked into voting to authorize the use of force. Hello All ; Congressman Ron Paul, in Ron Pauls' Freedom Report, March 2004 : Since no weapons of mass destruction or link to al Qaeda have been found in Iraq, the explanation given now for having gone there was top bring democracy to the Iraqi people. Yet now we hear that the Iraqis are demanding immediate free elections not controlled by the United States and our administration says the Iraqi people are not yet ready for free elections. THE TRUTH IS THAT A NATIONAL ELECTION IN IRAQ WOULD BRING INDIVIDUALS TO POWER THAT THE ADMINISTRATION DOESN'T WANT. Democratic elections will have to wait. Cheers. --- Ken Riznyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess Bush has to inflate the numbers, because 3,000 is a small number compared to the other atrocities that have occurred. Already there are about 12,000 Iraqi civilians killed 20,000 died in Bhopal, neither Union Carbide nor Dow which bought Union Carbide has paid one penny in reparation. 1 million died in the Rawanda massacre who knows how may are dying in Dakar 40,000 are slaughtered each year on American highways half by drunk drivers 10 million African babies die each year from starvation 1 million Armenians were massacared by the Turks Hitler exterminated 10 million Stalin killed about 20 million And the land of liberty and freedom, now committed to granting democracy to others, completely decimated its native population in its formative years, Done with my soap box ranting Ken --- Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Following some of the election speeches by Bush, he is talking by the 3,800+ Americans that died at WTC. If I am not completely misinformed, about half of them were foreign nationals originally, but they must have been adopted by presidential decree or some other mechanism. A very nice gesture, but the problem I have, were they asked before they became Americans? I heard that if you are born on American soil, you are automatically American or have the right to be, I did not know that it was the same case if you died on American soil. Hakan ___ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Email sent using Grand River Mutual's Web E-mail (http://www.grm.net) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Re: [Biofuel] Noble gesture by Bush
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Senator Kerry's speech in Congress of Oct. 9, 2002, in which Kerry said, I believe the record of Saddam Hussein's ruthless, reckless breach of international values and standards of behavioris cause enough for the world community to hold him accountable by use of force, if necessary... After he had outlived his usefulness in making war on Iran, murdering the local Communists, suppressing the Kurds, etc. Saddam must be feeling the force of the Earl of Strafford's exhortation, as he was about to have his head chopped off for outliving his usefulness to Charles I: Put not your trust in princes. Rumsfeld, Reagan and company were probably as guilty of the crime under the Nuremburg principles, of waging aggressive war on Iran in the 80's, as Bush, Rumsfeld and company are for waging aggressive war on Iraq. But, then, Nuremburg was for losers. Anyone who reads the Federalist Papers, the writings of Thomas Jefferson, etc,; will be aware that one reason that the U.S. Founding Fathers wished to avoid foreign entanglements and foreign wars, was that they thought that a constitutional republic could not not long exist in a state devoted to self-aggrandizement by war (except against the Indians). They were wise. As Jefferson put it, I tremble for my country, when I reflect that God is just. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
