Re: [Biofuel] Simple twist of fate...
Hello Mike From my limited experience in Latin America I always felt the EV's were making inroads because they had enough sense to actually have local people in positions of authority, Hungry people have enough problems already, all they need is to have that stuff shoved down their throats, even if some food comes with it. where as most (not all, Jaime Sin comes to mind) Jaime Sin was in the Philippines. Catholic big-wigs were white. I will say that when I was working in Africa the CRS people were very good. The people are one thing, the institution is another, as ever, the institution in this case being the church itself. The CRS people are very good, so is CAFOD, and many others. The churches do some of the best development work, and without thumping the Bible overmuch, if at all - but again, it's not the churches who do it, it's the church workers. Best Keith Mike Lapsed Unitarian Weaver Keith Addison wrote: Hello Taryn Hi Keith, et alii. On Aug 30, 2005, at 3:35 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Hello Taryn, Pannirselvam Did you read this? http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200 5-August/003230.html Or: http://snipurl.com/hb3u [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers Who Would Jesus Assassinate? Hugo Chavez and the Men Who Claim to Speak for Jesus Yes, I did read them. Following them, or a similar thread, (now misplaced) :-( The browser history keeps the urls, why doesn't it keep the whole threads? led me to some striking information regarding the US's post-war anti-communist efforts in Italy, and later in Latin America. Following that taught me more about the role of the jesuits, and liberation theology, in Latin American politics. Trying to recover that misplaced thread last night led to many sites accusing liberation theologists of being pawns of the communists. Then to some ugly accusations regarding the role of the jesuits in bringing together the Vatican and the National Socialists (Nazis) in pre-war Germany. Of course, the German National Socialist Party was socialist in name only by the 1940s. Isn't it great when that happens? Almost makes it worth losing the original threads. It was interesting how few of the commentators when John Paul II died mentioned his opposition to the liberation theologists, seemed they'd forgotten about it. He was extremely anti-communist, and Marxist theology was (is?) the alternate name of liberation theology. John Paul II was Polish, and his main focus was on Poland and Lech Walesa's Solidarity struggle there, with the never quite suppressed Catholic Church playing its role, probably a pivotal one. What happened in Poland on the one hand and Afghanistan on the other were the death of the USSR, I guess Latin America seemed hardly even a side-show. What's happening to the US now with Hugo Chavez in Venezuela on the one hand and Iraq on the other makes an interesting comparison, and Latin America perhaps isn't a side-show anymore. (I'd bet the KGB wanted to assassinate Walesa too.) I didn't forget about John Paul II and the liberation theologists. I thought it was a crossroads, and the Pope sided with the rich and powerful. Again. Quite apart from what it says about the Catholic Church as a Christian organisation and the eyes of needles, it could perhaps have been a chance to change the whole paradigm of development and the poor. That's what the Jesuits wanted. Instead we got neo-liberal economics and corporate globalization, and a billion or so poor and starving people in a world of plenty. I reckon Robert Johnson made a better deal. I've never had any contact with Opus Dei and I'm not sad about that, but I haven't met a Jesuit I didn't like. So, I too, learn more of the twisted history that led to our bizarre predicaments of today, reading the Biofuel list. It is truly a great resource, let me add my thanks to that expressed by Doug and Pannirselvam. (and many others) Thanks to all! In one more strange twist of fate, the venues that bring us all together; ethernet, bsd servers, and the internet, were developed with much funding from ARPA, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Defense_Advanced_Research_Projects_Agency which was created to respond to The Communist Threat. Now of course the internet is one of our best tools for responding to the Capitalist Threat. It escaped. For once at least the end wasn't implicit in the means. Maybe we'll end up using swords as ploughshares after all. (Only I don't like ploughs!) Regarding the Clash of Civilisations, it's astonishing that Christians, Jews, and Muslims, all worshipping the same God of Israel, have been at each others throats, squabbling over the parched scraps of a long gone society, for more than a thousand years. For anyone perplexed over this conflict, I highly recommend Tom Robbins' Skinny Legs and All.
[Biofuel] Simple twist of fate...
From my limited experience in Latin America I always felt the EV's were making inroads because they had enough sense to actually have local people in positions of authority, where as most (not all, Jaime Sin comes to mind) Catholic big-wigs were white. I will say that when I was working in Africa the CRS people were very good. Mike Lapsed Unitarian Weaver Keith Addison wrote: Hello Taryn Hi Keith, et alii. On Aug 30, 2005, at 3:35 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Hello Taryn, Pannirselvam Did you read this? http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200 5-August/003230.html Or: http://snipurl.com/hb3u [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers Who Would Jesus Assassinate? Hugo Chavez and the Men Who Claim to Speak for Jesus Yes, I did read them. Following them, or a similar thread, (now misplaced) :-( The browser history keeps the urls, why doesn't it keep the whole threads? led me to some striking information regarding the US's post-war anti-communist efforts in Italy, and later in Latin America. Following that taught me more about the role of the jesuits, and liberation theology, in Latin American politics. Trying to recover that misplaced thread last night led to many sites accusing liberation theologists of being pawns of the communists. Then to some ugly accusations regarding the role of the jesuits in bringing together the Vatican and the National Socialists (Nazis) in pre-war Germany. Of course, the German National Socialist Party was socialist in name only by the 1940s. Isn't it great when that happens? Almost makes it worth losing the original threads. It was interesting how few of the commentators when John Paul II died mentioned his opposition to the liberation theologists, seemed they'd forgotten about it. He was extremely anti-communist, and Marxist theology was (is?) the alternate name of liberation theology. John Paul II was Polish, and his main focus was on Poland and Lech Walesa's Solidarity struggle there, with the never quite suppressed Catholic Church playing its role, probably a pivotal one. What happened in Poland on the one hand and Afghanistan on the other were the death of the USSR, I guess Latin America seemed hardly even a side-show. What's happening to the US now with Hugo Chavez in Venezuela on the one hand and Iraq on the other makes an interesting comparison, and Latin America perhaps isn't a side-show anymore. (I'd bet the KGB wanted to assassinate Walesa too.) I didn't forget about John Paul II and the liberation theologists. I thought it was a crossroads, and the Pope sided with the rich and powerful. Again. Quite apart from what it says about the Catholic Church as a Christian organisation and the eyes of needles, it could perhaps have been a chance to change the whole paradigm of development and the poor. That's what the Jesuits wanted. Instead we got neo-liberal economics and corporate globalization, and a billion or so poor and starving people in a world of plenty. I reckon Robert Johnson made a better deal. I've never had any contact with Opus Dei and I'm not sad about that, but I haven't met a Jesuit I didn't like. So, I too, learn more of the twisted history that led to our bizarre predicaments of today, reading the Biofuel list. It is truly a great resource, let me add my thanks to that expressed by Doug and Pannirselvam. (and many others) Thanks to all! In one more strange twist of fate, the venues that bring us all together; ethernet, bsd servers, and the internet, were developed with much funding from ARPA, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Defense_Advanced_Research_Projects_Agency which was created to respond to The Communist Threat. Now of course the internet is one of our best tools for responding to the Capitalist Threat. It escaped. For once at least the end wasn't implicit in the means. Maybe we'll end up using swords as ploughshares after all. (Only I don't like ploughs!) Regarding the Clash of Civilisations, it's astonishing that Christians, Jews, and Muslims, all worshipping the same God of Israel, have been at each others throats, squabbling over the parched scraps of a long gone society, for more than a thousand years. For anyone perplexed over this conflict, I highly recommend Tom Robbins' Skinny Legs and All. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553377884 I've re-read this a few times in my struggles to understand the middle east. It is illuminating, to say the least. If you've not read Robbins' stuff before, you might want start with a few of his earlier works, e.g. Still Life with Woodpecker or Jitterbug Perfume, since his work is rich and complex. Thankyou. Interesting reviews. You might find this interesting, though probably the only thing it has in common with Skinny Legs and All is the Middle East and the Arabs: 21. A Kingdom of Agricultural Art in Europe
