Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol
Dear Mr. Bob Allen: I agree 100% with you. Thanks again. Mr. F.j. Burgos - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol Francisco, there is still some 4 or 5 % missing here. My only concern is that the missing per centage is water. It says .2% water but it doesn't add up. If the missing mass is water, it won't work. Water makes soap, not biofuel. And with ethanol it is very, very important. If the remainder is a hydrocarbon denaturant, then it should be no problem as small amounts of hydrocarbons don't interfere. My recommendation is try it on a small scale and see if it works. good luck francisco j burgos wrote: Dear Mr. Bob Allen: Here are label indications ETHANOL 95% ABSOLUT ETHYL ALCOHOL Minimum Assay: 95% (V/V) Boiling point 78.5 ºC (br 0.5ºC) Density: 1 L = 0.79 kg MAXIMIM LIMITS OF IMPURITIES Acidity (acetic acid) 0.001% Alkalinity (NH3)0.0001% Carboxilic compounds (CO) 0.5% Color (APHA) 10 Isopropyl alcohol0.003 Methanol0.01 Residue on evaporation 0.001% Substances reducing (09 5m0.0003% H2O 0.2% Al 0.5% Thanks, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol Francisco, what is the remaining 4.8%? usually absolute alcohol means 100%. Is this denatured alcohol, if so what is the denaturant? francisco j burgos wrote: Dear sirs. I have a bottle labeled as: absolute ethanol 95%, and among other things declares Water 0,2%. Would it be good enough for beef tallow transesterification?. I plan to dry tallow at 120ºC during 15 minutes; use 50ºC; molar ratio ethanol: tallow 6:1; turbulent mix; tallow has 0,25% FFA so I will use 0,60% of KOH; reaction time: 60 minutes. Do you think that I would be sucessful and obtain biodiesel ?. Your advise will be the most apreciated. Thanks in advance. Mr. F.J. Burgos. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 - Release Date: 11/11/2005 -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol
Dear Mr Ken Provost: No, it does smell gasoline in it. My results have been a disaster. Thanks, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Ken Provost To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol On Nov 21, 2005, at 2:18 PM, francisco j burgos wrote: ETHANOL 95% ABSOLUT ETHYL ALCOHOL Isopropyl alcohol 0.003 Methanol 0.01 H2O 0.2% Interesting -- It's possible you have absolute ethanol denatured with gasoline -- what's called "fuel grade" ethanol in US. If true, the odor of gasoline at 5% would be unmistakable. In any case, it should be fine for biodiesel. -K ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol
Dear Mr. Bob Allen: Here are label indications ETHANOL 95% ABSOLUT ETHYL ALCOHOL Minimum Assay: 95% (V/V) Boiling point 78.5 ºC (br 0.5ºC) Density: 1 L = 0.79 kg MAXIMIM LIMITS OF IMPURITIES Acidity (acetic acid) 0.001% Alkalinity (NH3)0.0001% Carboxilic compounds (CO) 0.5% Color (APHA) 10 Isopropyl alcohol0.003 Methanol0.01 Residue on evaporation 0.001% Substances reducing (09 5m0.0003% H2O 0.2% Al 0.5% Thanks, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol Francisco, what is the remaining 4.8%? usually absolute alcohol means 100%. Is this denatured alcohol, if so what is the denaturant? francisco j burgos wrote: Dear sirs. I have a bottle labeled as: absolute ethanol 95%, and among other things declares Water 0,2%. Would it be good enough for beef tallow transesterification?. I plan to dry tallow at 120ºC during 15 minutes; use 50ºC; molar ratio ethanol: tallow 6:1; turbulent mix; tallow has 0,25% FFA so I will use 0,60% of KOH; reaction time: 60 minutes. Do you think that I would be sucessful and obtain biodiesel ?. Your advise will be the most apreciated. Thanks in advance. Mr. F.J. Burgos. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 - Release Date: 11/11/2005 -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol
Francisco, there is still some 4 or 5 % missing here. My only concern is that the missing per centage is water. It says .2% water but it doesn't add up. If the missing mass is water, it won't work. Water makes soap, not biofuel. And with ethanol it is very, very important. If the remainder is a hydrocarbon denaturant, then it should be no problem as small amounts of hydrocarbons don't interfere. My recommendation is try it on a small scale and see if it works. good luck francisco j burgos wrote: Dear Mr. Bob Allen: Here are label indications ETHANOL 95% ABSOLUT ETHYL ALCOHOL Minimum Assay: 95% (V/V) Boiling point 78.5 ºC (br 0.5ºC) Density: 1 L = 0.79 kg MAXIMIM LIMITS OF IMPURITIES Acidity (acetic acid) 0.001% Alkalinity (NH3)0.0001% Carboxilic compounds (CO) 0.5% Color (APHA) 10 Isopropyl alcohol0.003 Methanol0.01 Residue on evaporation 0.001% Substances reducing (09 5m0.0003% H2O 0.2% Al 0.5% Thanks, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol Francisco, what is the remaining 4.8%? usually absolute alcohol means 100%. Is this denatured alcohol, if so what is the denaturant? francisco j burgos wrote: Dear sirs. I have a bottle labeled as: absolute ethanol 95%, and among other things declares Water 0,2%. Would it be good enough for beef tallow transesterification?. I plan to dry tallow at 120ºC during 15 minutes; use 50ºC; molar ratio ethanol: tallow 6:1; turbulent mix; tallow has 0,25% FFA so I will use 0,60% of KOH; reaction time: 60 minutes. Do you think that I would be sucessful and obtain biodiesel ?. Your advise will be the most apreciated. Thanks in advance. Mr. F.J. Burgos. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 - Release Date: 11/11/2005 -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol
On Nov 21, 2005, at 2:18 PM, francisco j burgos wrote:ETHANOL 95%ABSOLUT ETHYL ALCOHOLIsopropyl alcohol 0.003Methanol 0.01H2O 0.2%Interesting -- It's possible you have absolute ethanoldenatured with gasoline -- what's called "fuel grade"ethanol in US. If true, the odor of gasoline at 5%would be unmistakable. In any case, it should befine for biodiesel.-K___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol
Dear Mr. Provost: Many thanks. Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Ken Provost To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol On Nov 17, 2005, at 4:19 AM, francisco j burgos wrote: The melting point for tallow is ca 40.5ºC (104,9ºF) so I thought that 50ºC (122ºC) for reaction would be effective, please comment. Start at 50 just to get everything into solution, but then let it cool down -- separation takes a long time, and cooler temperatures assist the process. Do check out the JtoF pages on ethyl esters -- the details are quite different than for methyl esters. -K ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol
Dear Mr. Ken Provost: Many thanks for your e-m and comments. The melting point for tallow is ca 40.5ºC (104,9ºF) so I thought that 50ºC (122ºC) for reaction would be cost effective, please comment. There are some people here that want toinclude ethyl tallowate in their petroleum based lubricants. Thanks in advance. Yours tryly, Mr, F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Ken Provost To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol On Nov 16, 2005, at 5:32 PM, francisco j burgos wrote: I have a bottle labeled as: absolute ethanol 95%, and among other things declares Water 0,2%.Would it be good enough for beef tallow transesterification?.I plan to dry tallow at 120ºC during 15 minutes; use 50ºC; molar ratio ethanol: tallow 6:1; turbulent mix; tallow has 0,25% FFA so Iwill use 0,60% of KOH; reaction time: 60 minutes.Do you think that I would be successful and obtain biodiesel? The short answer is YES, you should eventually be able to use your ethanol, which is adequately dry, to make biodiesel from your tallow, which is adequately clean. Temp. of 50 sounds a little high for ethanol (the high temp. discourages separation), and I don't have my calculator handy to check your ratios, but the reactants sound acceptable. Reaction time may be as long as 12 hours before glycerine separation occurs. Have you already made biodiesel with this feedstock using methanol instead of ethanol? May I ask why you want to use ethanol? The process is much less reliable and requires considerably more KOH than with methanol -- including up to 20% methanol in the alcohol portion increases your chance of success markedly. The Journey to Forever website has some information about the use of ethanol for transesterification, and what aspects of the process need to be modified. Check it out thoroughly. -K ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol
On Nov 17, 2005, at 4:19 AM, francisco j burgos wrote:The melting point for tallow is ca 40.5ºC (104,9ºF) so I thoughtthat 50ºC (122ºC) for reaction would be effective, please comment.Start at 50 just to get everything into solution, but then let it cooldown -- separation takes a long time, and cooler temperaturesassist the process.Do check out the JtoF pages on ethyl esters -- the detailsare quite different than for methyl esters.-K___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol
Francisco, what is the remaining 4.8%? usually absolute alcohol means 100%. Is this denatured alcohol, if so what is the denaturant? francisco j burgos wrote: Dear sirs. I have a bottle labeled as: absolute ethanol 95%, and among other things declares Water 0,2%. Would it be good enough for beef tallow transesterification?. I plan to dry tallow at 120ºC during 15 minutes; use 50ºC; molar ratio ethanol: tallow 6:1; turbulent mix; tallow has 0,25% FFA so I will use 0,60% of KOH; reaction time: 60 minutes. Do you think that I would be sucessful and obtain biodiesel ?. Your advise will be the most apreciated. Thanks in advance. Mr. F.J. Burgos. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 - Release Date: 11/11/2005 -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Absolute ethanol
On Nov 16, 2005, at 5:32 PM, francisco j burgos wrote: I have a bottle labeled as: absolute ethanol 95%, and amongother things declares Water 0,2%. Would it be good enough forbeef tallow transesterification?. I plan to dry tallow at 120ºCduring 15 minutes; use 50ºC; molar ratio ethanol: tallow 6:1; turbulent mix; tallow has 0,25% FFA so I will use 0,60% of KOH;reaction time: 60 minutes. Do you think that I would be successful and obtain biodiesel?The short answer is YES, you should eventually be able to useyour ethanol, which is adequately dry, to make biodiesel fromyour tallow, which is adequately clean. Temp. of 50 sounds alittle high for ethanol (the high temp. discourages separation),and I don't have my calculator handy to check your ratios, butthe reactants sound acceptable. Reaction time may be as longas 12 hours before glycerine separation occurs.Have you already made biodiesel with this feedstock using methanol instead of ethanol? May I ask why you want to useethanol? The process is much less reliable and requiresconsiderably more KOH than with methanol -- including upto 20% methanol in the alcohol portion increases your chanceof success markedly. The Journey to Forever website has someinformation about the use of ethanol for transesterification, andwhat aspects of the process need to be modified. Check it outthoroughly.-K___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
