[svg-developers] help newbie

[ml41782]

I'm new to the SVG but not new to XML. With that said, I'm confused 
with the idea of trying to use XSL to create a SVG for my XML. 
This is for a personal web server in my home ( windows XP running 
Appache 2.2) . I use the XML to just create html tables to monitor my 
solar and wind power systems. I came up with the wild idea of doing 
this with SVG. 

I have installed Opera9.5 and tried various examples with no success. 
My goal here is to take the file below and create a graph for this 
inverter and two other. 

I'm trying to keep this simple as possible, 

Thank you in advance



  
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  27.09.2008 22:39:47 
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  4.6026675871999 
  10154.366830873 
  
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  27.09.2008 22:46:47 
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  4.6026675871999 
  10154.366830873 
  
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  27.09.2008 22:49:07 
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  4.6026675871999 
  10154.366830873 
  
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  27.09.2008 22:49:47 
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  4.6026675871999 
  10154.366830873 
  
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  27.09.2008 23:09:10 
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  4.6026675871999 
  10154.366830873 
  
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  27.09.2008 23:44:54 
  0 
  4.6026675871999 
  10154.366830873 
  
  




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[svg-developers] loss of time axis ? Any Suggestions ??

[narendra sisodiya]

While drawing svg in any editor, there is a  loss of time axis.
I am trying developing a whiteboard application, but when teacher draw two
rectangle, both are displayed at same time, there is no difference in
drawing sequence, I want to have a screen casting effect but with svg,

Is there any standard for storing time axis information, I am trying to
define these thing in xml format
much similar to this -> http://techfandu.org/eduvid/timing.xml is utilised
by this automated slideshow
http://techfandu.org/eduvid/eduvid-first-demo.html by JavaScript period
timeout event to hide and show the slides,
same thing I want to extend to svg, where each svg element will be added to
dom dynamically with such timeout event generate by time.xml file.

Any suggestions,


-- 
‚€€€[ Narendra Sisodiya ]€€ƒ
 http://narendra.techfandu.org
 http://www.lug-iitd.org
 http://twitter.com/eduvid
„[ +91-93790-75930 ]€€…


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[svg-developers] Re: loss of time axis ? Any Suggestions ??

[Helder Magalhães]

> Is there any standard for storing time axis information [?]

If you are able to record events in a timely fashion, you may be able
to reproduce them using SMIL [1]. Don't know if this approach was ever
attempted! ;-)

Note that SMIL support is still not very widely supported among
implementations, but serious work is underway so we may expect widely
deployed implementations in a near future. Take a look at Jeff
Schiller's excellent SVG support page [2], where SMIL support is
somehow in the middle (part which Firefox 1.5 lacks, for example).

Hope this helps,

 Helder Magalhães

[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/animate.html
[2] http://www.codedread.com/svg-support.php




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RE: [svg-developers] loss of time axis ? Any Suggestions ??

[Dailey, David P.]

Hi,

Try the following in either IE/Adobe plugin or Opera 9 or above or WebKit 
nightly build:

http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"; width="100%"
xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink"; >






fading stuff with SMIL


I think it's sorta what you have in mind.

You can also control svg visibility through javascript (by getting the object 
through DOM) and then modifying attributes (either opacity or visibility or 
display) in the middle of a window.setTimeout. The above use of the  
tag is a part of SMIL. I've got exactly 1.7 zillion examples at 
http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/.

Hope this helps
David


-Original Message-
From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
narendra sisodiya
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 7:35 AM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [svg-developers] loss of time axis ? Any Suggestions ??

While drawing svg in any editor, there is a  loss of time axis.
I am trying developing a whiteboard application, but when teacher draw two
rectangle, both are displayed at same time, there is no difference in
drawing sequence, I want to have a screen casting effect but with svg,

Is there any standard for storing time axis information, I am trying to
define these thing in xml format
much similar to this -> http://techfandu.org/eduvid/timing.xml is utilised
by this automated slideshow
http://techfandu.org/eduvid/eduvid-first-demo.html by JavaScript period
timeout event to hide and show the slides,
same thing I want to extend to svg, where each svg element will be added to
dom dynamically with such timeout event generate by time.xml file.

Any suggestions,


-- 
‚€€€[ Narendra Sisodiya ]€€ƒ
 http://narendra.techfandu.org
 http://www.lug-iitd.org
 http://twitter.com/eduvid
„[ +91-93790-75930 ]€€…


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[svg-developers] Re: How to print over multiple pages?

[Mark S.]

Thanks for your response.

I guess most people are using SVG for web graphics (thus the number of
books with the word "web" in their titles). Don't know how you would
support industrial cad processes without being able to print out over
more than one page.

Oh well. So, if I have this right, I'll need to do my own pagination,
breaking the output into multiple SVG files? Not ideal, but guess I
can do that. 

Thanks again,
Mark

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Helder Magalhães
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >  > preserveAspectRatio="xMidYMid meet"
> > xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg";>
> > 
> > Is this the syntax that you were suggesting?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> > This doesn't seem to make any difference in the final outcome.
> > 
> > I got the  idea from the w3c site:
> > 
> >   http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-SVG12-20041027/multipage.html
> > 
> > They didn't mention that no one was implementing this feature ;(
> 
> Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I didn't mean no one was implementing it,
> I meant I didn't check the feature support among the set of
> implementations I'm aware of. Hope someone with experience with SVG
> printing will follow up. :-)
> 
> 
> 
> > I'm a little surprised. I can't be the only person who needs
> > to print out over multiple pages.
> 
> I'm sure you aren't the only one! ;-) That's why a particular
> specification is underway, SVG Print [1], targeted to implementations
> which aims high quality printing for SVG graphics.
> 
> The newest version of the specification SVG Mobile 1.2 [2] also
> contains some printing tips [2] [3]:
> 
> «Content produced by illustration programs originally targeted at
> print often has a fixed width and height, which will prevent it
> scaling for different display resolutions.» [2]
> 
> This suggests that the scaling trick may not have the desired effect
> on printing devices... :-| Note that this particular version of the
> specification is more directed to simpler devices, so I'm assuming
> that printing support isn't the priority here. Probably future version
> of the specification and the underway work on SVG Print will help
> achieving your intended result. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
>  Helder Magalhães
> 
> [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGPrint/
> [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/single-page.html#struct-SVGElement
> [3]
>
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/single-page.html#implnote-PrintingImplementationNotes
>





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Re: [svg-developers] shadow projections

[David Leunen]

Thanks for your reply,


feOffset tends to be so slow (and I'm not quite sure why)
>

I guess it's an implementation problem. I can't see why it should be slower
than a translation transform.


Your example didn't come through


Sorry.
Here is my quick example : http://leunen.d.free.fr/shadow-proj.svg
Viewable in Opera.
(don't ask me why the "identity displacement" seems to be BB... shouldn't it
be 80 ? My trials&errors brought me to that. It's either me who don't
understand displacement maps fully, or a bug in Opera...?)


the best
> approach I've thought of would involve something like this: create two
> versions one more blurred and the other less, and then use a mask that
> fades from one to the other from top to bottom.
>

Interesting. But I'm really looking for a pure filter effect. No scripting,
no masking.
And (I'm not sure but) I think that technically, it would not be quite the
same result, compared to a variable stdDeviation.


Sorta like http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/distort.svg ?
> That's going to be hard to control, and I'm not sure quite how you'd
> invert the displacement map.
>

Yes, like that.
I haven't been able to build an example, yet. These displacement maps are
not easy to manipulate.
By inverted displacement map, I mean another map that does the exact
opposite displacement.


With the svg filters coming soon in CSS, I guess many developers will want
to apply other funny effects to their html content.
It would be cool if this kind of shadow projection will be possible one day,
without scripting, and without changing the content.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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RE: [svg-developers] shadow projections

[Dailey, David P.]

I actually quite like the solution you have, but also agree that additional 
features would be useful. I'd be quite interested to see an inverse 
displacement map, since I have gotten the suspicion that the spec may be just 
fuzzy enough here that the way browsers implement varies considerably, in ways 
that might make inversion tricky perhaps. just a suspicion, since I haven't 
really isolated those differences systematically.
 
The SVG Working Group is already thinking about some non-affine transforms like 
perspective tranforms and the SVG Interest Group is attempting to help "filter" 
some of the discussion pertaining to suggestions for new features.
See, for example,  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-ig/2008JulSep/0108.html
 
regards
David



From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com on behalf of David Leunen
Sent: Mon 9/29/2008 5:44 PM
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [svg-developers] shadow projections



Thanks for your reply,

feOffset tends to be so slow (and I'm not quite sure why)
>

I guess it's an implementation problem. I can't see why it should be slower
than a translation transform.

Your example didn't come through

Sorry.
Here is my quick example : http://leunen.d.free.fr/shadow-proj.svg 
 
Viewable in Opera.
(don't ask me why the "identity displacement" seems to be BB... shouldn't it
be 80 ? My trials&errors brought me to that. It's either me who don't
understand displacement maps fully, or a bug in Opera...?)

the best
> approach I've thought of would involve something like this: create two
> versions one more blurred and the other less, and then use a mask that
> fades from one to the other from top to bottom.
>

Interesting. But I'm really looking for a pure filter effect. No scripting,
no masking.
And (I'm not sure but) I think that technically, it would not be quite the
same result, compared to a variable stdDeviation.

Sorta like http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/distort.svg 
  ?
> That's going to be hard to control, and I'm not sure quite how you'd
> invert the displacement map.
>

Yes, like that.
I haven't been able to build an example, yet. These displacement maps are
not easy to manipulate.
By inverted displacement map, I mean another map that does the exact
opposite displacement.

With the svg filters coming soon in CSS, I guess many developers will want
to apply other funny effects to their html content.
It would be cool if this kind of shadow projection will be possible one day,
without scripting, and without changing the content.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Re: [svg-developers] Re: loss of time axis ? Any Suggestions ??

[narendra sisodiya]

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Helder Magalhães <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>   > Is there any standard for storing time axis information [?]
>
> If you are able to record events in a timely fashion, you may be able
> to reproduce them using SMIL [1]. Don't know if this approach was ever
> attempted! ;-)
>







Yes, I am able to do this for div slides, as show in my demo code,
so I will apply same thing with svg whiteboard,
Thanks,

PS : I tried to look as SMIL, but I scared , I found it is better to make my
own xml and parse it.



>
> Note that SMIL support is still not very widely supported among
> implementations, but serious work is underway so we may expect widely
> deployed implementations in a near future. Take a look at Jeff
> Schiller's excellent SVG support page [2], where SMIL support is
> somehow in the middle (part which Firefox 1.5 lacks, for example).
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Helder Magalhães
>
> [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/animate.html
> [2] http://www.codedread.com/svg-support.php
>
>  
>



-- 
┌───[ Narendra Sisodiya ]──┐
│ http://narendra.techfandu.org
│ http://www.lug-iitd.org
│ Follow me : http://twitter.com/eduvid
└[ +91-93790-75930 ]──┘


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Re: [svg-developers] loss of time axis ? Any Suggestions ??

[narendra sisodiya]

Thanks a lot David, I am going with 2nd approach,
*
"You can also control svg visibility through javascript (by getting the
object through DOM) and then modifying attributes (either opacity or
visibility or display) in the middle of a window.setTimeout"*

I am modifying simple richdraw Editor (
http://starkravingfinkle.org/projects/richdraw/richdraw_demo.htm )
to use it as whiteboard,


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[svg-developers] Fun with i-phones (a couple of ideas) -- [web-apps, 3D-accelerometers, accessibility, 3D-canvas]

[Dailey, David P.]

Explanation: This is only vaguely SVG-ish but has to do with events, web-apps, 
interface and drawing. I thought the SVG-developers group would have 
significant expertise here, and possible interest. (I'm also not sure if a 
posting to [EMAIL PROTECTED] as a non-member would actually work or not -- and 
whether or not it would be welcome from outside).  It is long, so unless the 
topics in the subject line actually interest you, please don't worry about 
reading it.
 
I got an i-phone a couple of weeks ago and have registered as a higher 
education iphone developer-something-or-other. Have only started to unpack the 
developers' goodies. It looks like "hello world" is a significant fraction of a 
megabyte, so am not sure how quick I'll be to actually crawl into that mind set.
 
The reason I got it is that I teach courses at the senior level in an 
undergraduate CS/IT program in interface design. The idea of having multiple 
points of touch has always appealed to me. After working on the PLATO system as 
a grad student where we read lots of Minsky and Richard Karp, and getting to 
see the Xerox Star system in one of my prof's offices, I had begun to develop 
ideas about rich interfaces. My reaction to the first Mac I saw in '84 was 
"what only one mouse? I will clearly need two." [to sculpt anything three 
dimensional, for example]. The apple folks that I had access to at the time 
were goodhearted salesfolk who nodded and smiled. Finally, now,  as I approach 
my dotage, I might have the opportunity to program with more than one point of 
contact with the user.
 
And 3D accelerometers! What fun will that be? How might we use 3D 
accelerometers to carve our space into wonderful shapes? 
 
Now my friends at Opera have been telling me for more than a year now about all 
the wonderful stuff they have in Opera including the 3D canvas. I haven't had 
time to play, nor even to learn about it yet, but it can't be much more complex 
than abc or xyz now can it?
 
So, I guess as I try to help my university figure out whether or not its 
expense in buying me an iphone has paid off, I need to see if I can make the 
little gadget do anything. I have two ideas. 
 
1. Make it into a 3D mouse for an Opera 3D canvas.
 
2. Use it to make a gestural semantics that a) works better than a keyboard 
and/or b) works really well for folks already conversant with ASL.
 
Let me explicate a little and then see if anyone has either suggestions or a 
willingness to participate in such an endeavor.
 
1. One of the little apps that ships as an example (I still remember what 
wonderful things Sun shipped with JDK1.1) is just a little time-based plotter 
of acceleration data in x, y and z axes. Differentiate that curve twice, it 
seems and you've got locations in 3space (though the curve may be so 
discontinuous that the derivatives become screwy -- so then smooth the curve 
first). How fast can one stream that data, and through what protocol 
(HTTPRequest?) and port (80?) does the little i-phone actually send data? Can I 
plop it out quickly enough so that it could be streamed to a server and thence 
through ajax or json (or just plain old cgi-text) to a browser that I could 
draw into a 3D canvas running in Opera (or Safari or whoever else implements a 
3D canvas?) Or has anybody implemented enough of the  websockets stuff yet that 
we could do it that way, with presumably greater speed?
 
Some may say that I should just get a 3D mouse of some sort and hook it via 
infrared/microwave/radio directly to a device on which I can draw, but that's 
hardly as much fun and considerably lower level than I would like to play. 
Having it web-accessible means it can be broadcast and that's rather nice too. 
Though I know, there's always closed circuit TV, but again I don't really care 
about that.
 
The fundamental question is how can we get those data from a gadget (like an 
i-phone) to a web page quickly?
 
2. The keyboards on these little gadgets are way too small for someone who grew 
up decades before the generation of "texting" YMKWIM (you must know what I 
mean) While I appreciate the parsimony of highly fluent texting, I would rather 
learn Chinese or polish my Mongolian if I had the time.
One time, when I was a young psychology and math professor, I was invited to a 
party of people all of whom (except me) spoke ASL. I watched as three people 
all "talked" and understood one another all at the same time. I was amazed. 
They said it was commonplace. I knew of research suggesting that the baud rate 
of the visual system was considerably higher (like 100 fold) larger than that 
of the auditory system, though I also knew how some had disputed that research. 
But here was something remarkable. Three people speaking and listening 
concurrently!
 
So here's the idea: instead of typing with a tiny keyboard can we use the 3D 
accelerometers to convey fundamental units of meaning (such as, but better 
than, the alphabet)? Gesture(X+Y+)(X-Z+)(Y+) = "g

[svg-developers] Fw: SVG SMIL in Mozilla

[Cameron McCormack]

- Forwarded message from Karl Dubost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

From: Karl Dubost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 12:16:12 +0900
To: Dick Bulterman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: SVG SMIL in Mozilla
Archived-At:



FYI

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 03:14:34 GMT
In Mozilla Project Meeting Minutes: 2008-09-29 at Meeting Notes
At http://blog.mozilla.com/meeting-notes/archives/61

Building with SVG SMIL enabled and beginning to
write tests for those. [mw22]



-- 
Karl Dubost - W3C
http://www.w3.org/QA/
Be Strict To Be Cool

- End forwarded message -

-- 
Cameron McCormack ≝ http://mcc.id.au/



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