RE: [svg-developers] Re: Wrapping Text in SVG 2
Hi Doug, I am probably jumping the gun here; What about adaptive technology? I wonder how text wrapping will be handled? I believe div is being phased out of HTML and there is a move towards better structure using tags such as article. Screen readers have begun to support these tags though said support is flakey at times. Pranav - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: Wrapping Text in SVG 2
--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Pranav Lal pranav.lal@... wrote: Hi Doug, I am probably jumping the gun here; What about adaptive technology? I wonder how text wrapping will be handled? I believe div is being phased out of HTML and there is a move towards better structure using tags such as article. Screen readers have begun to support these tags though said support is flakey at times. Pranav I hope the Div is not replaced, it is used to divide an area, such as a screen. Without the Div you are stuck in a page metaphor which has no connection to a screen device, that is unless you believe that people will like to sit on a couch and scroll those TV screens. I don't see that as a forward looking decision. - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: Wrapping Text in SVG 2
Hi, My only input is that the text wrapping feature should be able to be turned on and off. If you don't, people will want to do things with text, and the wrapping will be trying to make sure that they don't. Thanks - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Wrapping Text in SVG 2
Hi, Joe- Hi, On 6/7/13 11:59 AM, Joe Doll wrote: My only input is that the text wrapping feature should be able to be turned on and off. If you don't, people will want to do things with text, and the wrapping will be trying to make sure that they don't. Great point. I'll make sure to specify that the default is to have all the text on a single line (like it is today) and that the wrapping only applies when there is a width specified for the text. Regards- -Doug - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Wrapping Text in SVG 2
Hi, Andrew- Thanks for your feedback. On 6/6/13 4:42 AM, AndrewB wrote: Wrapping text using the CSS box model seems like a great idea to me because it means I (and others) only have to become familiar with one model for most text layout tasks. Yup. I think that's the real power of the proposal: it leverages the general developer knowledge base, and simplifies the Open Web Platform in general. I also like the simplicity of the overflow property suggested here http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Proposals/Wrapping_Text and if I read it correctly, the proposed simplicity of controlling what happens on overflow e.g. overflow = visible or clipped though I do think the refinements on this are important i.e. it is important to include values to allow the author control over whether clipped text renders in part, in whole, or not at all That's correct, if we want to add these options, we would have to extend CSS's 'overflow' a bit to allow it to hide or fully show clipped text (I guess that would be 2 new keywords); we'd thus have to convince the CSS WG that that particular use case is worth it, so if you have concrete examples where that would be useful, please let me know! Regards- -Doug - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: Wrapping Text in SVG 2
Hi Doug Wrapping text using the CSS box model seems like a great idea to me because it means I (and others) only have to become familiar with one model for most text layout tasks. I also like the simplicity of the overflow property suggested here http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Proposals/Wrapping_Text and if I read it correctly, the proposed simplicity of controlling what happens on overflow e.g. overflow = visible or clipped though I do think the refinements on this are important i.e. it is important to include values to allow the author control over whether clipped text renders in part, in whole, or not at all Best wishes Andrew --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Doug Schepers doug@... wrote: Hi, Jason- On 6/5/13 11:42 PM, Jason Barnabas wrote: I would love to have text wrapping, even if it's only in a box to start with. This will beat the multi-line or text on a path I have been using. If you could fill a shape with justified text that would be even more awesome. Yes, that should be possible, since we'll just be using the CSS box model, which allows justified text. Thanks for your work and letting me put my two cents in. Thanks for your feedback, and for using SVG! Regards- -Doug - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: Wrapping Text in SVG 2
--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Doug Schepers doug@... wrote: As regular users of SVG, I'd like to know if there are any considerations we should take into account, if you feel this would meet your needs for use in SVG, or if you have any concerns. In my opinion there is no need for this. Since it is quite easy to allow other file formats that are not open source to be introduced into the specs (WOFF fonts) why not just introduce the CSS Div and p (paragraph element) into the spec? This way all text handling could be easily handled and the need for HTML would be negated. See: https://googledrive.com/host/0B_A5rZ_7DsD2WGVSc1hpRnVCdk0/jcdsvg_1.html I know you are prone to complicated solutions to problems that don't exist (Parameters), but I prefer simplicity. James - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Wrapping Text in SVG 2
Hi, James-
On 6/5/13 7:52 PM, jamesd wrote:
--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Doug Schepers wrote:
As regular users of SVG, I'd like to know if there are any
considerations we should take into account, if you feel this would
meet your needs for use in SVG, or if you have any concerns.
In my opinion there is no need for this. Since it is quite easy to
allow other file formats that are not open source to be introduced
into the specs (WOFF fonts) why not just introduce the CSS Div and p
(paragraph element) into the spec?
This way all text handling could be easily handled and the need for
HTML would be negated.
You can already use div and p in SVG, inside the ungainly
foreignObject element; it would be nice if this were easier (maybe an
html element?), and we've discussed some proposals in the SVG WG, but
so far we haven't found consensus with the implementers.
Adding div and p as elements directly in SVG would actually cause a
conflict in the markup parser (i.e., it would kick the parser out of
SVG mode and back into HTML mode).
(Whether or not something is open source isn't really relevant from a
technical perspective... but fwiw, WOFF and OpenType are open formats,
even if they are binary and even if the contents may be under copyright.)
See:
https://googledrive.com/host/0B_A5rZ_7DsD2WGVSc1hpRnVCdk0/jcdsvg_1.html
I know you are prone to complicated solutions to problems that don't
exist (Parameters), but I prefer simplicity.
Perhaps you don't see a use for Params, but many people have asked me to
move it forward because it's just what they need, and it is not
particularly complicated to understand or use.
I also favor simplicity. Reasonable people can disagree about what
constitutes simple.
The solution you propose on your site may seems simple on the surface,
and does have a certain elegance, but it's more complex than it appears,
to specify and to implement. Still, I'd like to get to that point.
But for for labels and short runs of text (a very common use case), this
doesn't seem particularly complex to me:
svg ...
style
text {
width: 300px;
height: 500px;
}
/style
text x=10 y=25Some text to be wrapped goes here./text
/svg
For more complex case, like lists, tables, multiple paragraphs, etc.,
you will need to use inline HTML; again, hopefully we can make that
simpler in the future.
Regards-
-Doug
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Re: [svg-developers] Re: Wrapping Text in SVG 2
I would love to have text wrapping, even if it's only in a box to start with. This will beat the multi-line or text on a path I have been using. If you could fill a shape with justified text that would be even more awesome. Thanks for your work and letting me put my two cents in. Jason - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Wrapping Text in SVG 2
Hi, Jason- On 6/5/13 11:42 PM, Jason Barnabas wrote: I would love to have text wrapping, even if it's only in a box to start with. This will beat the multi-line or text on a path I have been using. If you could fill a shape with justified text that would be even more awesome. Yes, that should be possible, since we'll just be using the CSS box model, which allows justified text. Thanks for your work and letting me put my two cents in. Thanks for your feedback, and for using SVG! Regards- -Doug - To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: svg-developers-dig...@yahoogroups.com svg-developers-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: svg-developers-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
