Re: [swift-evolution] Some clarity lost from the great renaming

[Daniel Duan via swift-evolution]

I wrote a script to find “needless words” in our function names and made a 
similar discovery. If “doXWithY(_ y: Y)” gets renamed to “doX(with y: Y)” and Y 
happened to be a enum or have static members, at use site it become a little 
awkward. Following Brandon’s first example:

1. “normal” is an adjective, and preposition followed by adjective (“for 
normal”, “to default”, “with misc”) is ungrammatical. It’s very common to have 
enum cases being an adjective.
2. if the argument is a literal value (as opposed to a variable), the type 
information is not immediately obvious at use site. The function reads better 
if the enum type prefix is preserved: `botton.setTitle(“Test”, for: 
UIControlState.normal)`.

In these cases, we chose to preserve the words after the preposition to make 
the call site clearer.

These aren’t problems from the API Design Guideline. They should be considered 
carefully case by case. And yeah, not really something we can fix on this list 
:)

> On Oct 18, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> on Tue Oct 18 2016, Brandon Knope  > wrote:
> 
>> I meant to bring this up a bit ago but just came across it again.
>> 
>> I find this to not read properly:
>> 
>> button.setTitle("Test", for: .normal) //for normal what?
>> 
>> The for argument is really only clear in meaning when you are typing
>> it out and see that it is a UIControlState type. While reading it
>> without this context is it as clear? .normal doesn't seem descriptive
>> enough on its own.
>> 
>> Contrast this with UISegmentedControl:
>> segmented.dividerImage(forLeftSegmentState: .normal, rightSegmentState: 
>> .normal, barMetrics:
>> .default)
>> 
>> Here the parameter labels are needed because there needs to be a
>> distinction in the method between left and right. But here it is not
>> forLeft: or forRight: it is the much more clear forLeftSegmentState:
>> 
>> So my question is: why was this not setTitle(forControlState:) or 
>> forButtonState, etc...?
> 
> This is really not an evolution question at this point.  I suggest
> filing radars against UIKit for things whose names could be improved.
> 
> -- 
> -Dave
> 
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Re: [swift-evolution] Some clarity lost from the great renaming

[Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution]

on Tue Oct 18 2016, Hooman Mehr  wrote:

> Is changing the mapping of Cocoa API considered a source breaking
> change or can we report such incidents as bugs if we think they don’t
> match API guidelines?

You can report them as bugs even if it would be source breaking.

>
>
>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> on Tue Oct 18 2016, Brandon Knope > >
> wrote:
>> 
>>> I meant to bring this up a bit ago but just came across it again.
>>> 
>>> I find this to not read properly:
>>> 
>>> button.setTitle("Test", for: .normal) //for normal what?
>>> 
>>> The for argument is really only clear in meaning when you are typing
>>> it out and see that it is a UIControlState type. While reading it
>>> without this context is it as clear? .normal doesn't seem descriptive
>>> enough on its own.
>>> 
>>> Contrast this with UISegmentedControl:
>>> segmented.dividerImage(forLeftSegmentState: .normal, rightSegmentState: 
>>> .normal, barMetrics:
>>> .default)
>>> 
>>> Here the parameter labels are needed because there needs to be a
>>> distinction in the method between left and right. But here it is not
>>> forLeft: or forRight: it is the much more clear forLeftSegmentState:
>>> 
>>> So my question is: why was this not setTitle(forControlState:) or 
>>> forButtonState, etc...?
>> 
>> This is really not an evolution question at this point.  I suggest
>> filing radars against UIKit for things whose names could be improved.
>> 
>> -- 
>> -Dave
>> 
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>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
> 

-- 
-Dave
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Re: [swift-evolution] Some clarity lost from the great renaming

[Brandon Knope via swift-evolution]

Sorry! I was unsure if this would be a breaking change so thought I would seek 
feedback. 

It sounds like I'm not the only one bothered by this so I will file a radar

Brandon 

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 18, 2016, at 9:43 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>> on Tue Oct 18 2016, Brandon Knope  wrote:
>> 
>> I meant to bring this up a bit ago but just came across it again.
>> 
>> I find this to not read properly:
>> 
>> button.setTitle("Test", for: .normal) //for normal what?
>> 
>> The for argument is really only clear in meaning when you are typing
>> it out and see that it is a UIControlState type. While reading it
>> without this context is it as clear? .normal doesn't seem descriptive
>> enough on its own.
>> 
>> Contrast this with UISegmentedControl:
>> segmented.dividerImage(forLeftSegmentState: .normal, rightSegmentState: 
>> .normal, barMetrics:
>> .default)
>> 
>> Here the parameter labels are needed because there needs to be a
>> distinction in the method between left and right. But here it is not
>> forLeft: or forRight: it is the much more clear forLeftSegmentState:
>> 
>> So my question is: why was this not setTitle(forControlState:) or 
>> forButtonState, etc...?
> 
> This is really not an evolution question at this point.  I suggest
> filing radars against UIKit for things whose names could be improved.
> 
> -- 
> -Dave
> 
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Re: [swift-evolution] Some clarity lost from the great renaming

[Charles Srstka via swift-evolution]

They can always add the new mapping, and leave the old one there but deprecate 
it.

Charles

> On Oct 18, 2016, at 8:51 PM, Hooman Mehr via swift-evolution 
>  wrote:
> 
> Is changing the mapping of Cocoa API considered a source breaking change or 
> can we report such incidents as bugs if we think they don’t match API 
> guidelines?
> 
>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> on Tue Oct 18 2016, Brandon Knope > > wrote:
>> 
>>> I meant to bring this up a bit ago but just came across it again.
>>> 
>>> I find this to not read properly:
>>> 
>>> button.setTitle("Test", for: .normal) //for normal what?
>>> 
>>> The for argument is really only clear in meaning when you are typing
>>> it out and see that it is a UIControlState type. While reading it
>>> without this context is it as clear? .normal doesn't seem descriptive
>>> enough on its own.
>>> 
>>> Contrast this with UISegmentedControl:
>>> segmented.dividerImage(forLeftSegmentState: .normal, rightSegmentState: 
>>> .normal, barMetrics:
>>> .default)
>>> 
>>> Here the parameter labels are needed because there needs to be a
>>> distinction in the method between left and right. But here it is not
>>> forLeft: or forRight: it is the much more clear forLeftSegmentState:
>>> 
>>> So my question is: why was this not setTitle(forControlState:) or 
>>> forButtonState, etc...?
>> 
>> This is really not an evolution question at this point.  I suggest
>> filing radars against UIKit for things whose names could be improved.
>> 
>> -- 
>> -Dave
>> 
>> ___
>> swift-evolution mailing list
>> swift-evolution@swift.org 
>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution 
>> 
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Re: [swift-evolution] Some clarity lost from the great renaming

[Dennis Lysenko via swift-evolution]

Agree on this particular case being unintuitive. I've come across a number
of such cases in Swift 3 but never really put too much thought into them.
Maybe you could just use for: UIControlState.normal until a resolution for
this is found (if there is one).

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 10:32 PM Dennis Lysenko 
wrote:

> I think if it's one example like in this instance then a compiler
> directive to specify mapping if one does not already exist would be a more
> prudent option than changing the entire mapping.
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 9:51 PM Hooman Mehr via swift-evolution <
> swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
>
> Is changing the mapping of Cocoa API considered a source breaking change
> or can we report such incidents as bugs if we think they don’t match API
> guidelines?
>
> On Oct 18, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution <
> swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
>
>
> on Tue Oct 18 2016, Brandon Knope  wrote:
>
> I meant to bring this up a bit ago but just came across it again.
>
> I find this to not read properly:
>
> button.setTitle("Test", for: .normal) //for normal what?
>
> The for argument is really only clear in meaning when you are typing
> it out and see that it is a UIControlState type. While reading it
> without this context is it as clear? .normal doesn't seem descriptive
> enough on its own.
>
> Contrast this with UISegmentedControl:
> segmented.dividerImage(forLeftSegmentState: .normal, rightSegmentState:
> .normal, barMetrics:
> .default)
>
> Here the parameter labels are needed because there needs to be a
> distinction in the method between left and right. But here it is not
> forLeft: or forRight: it is the much more clear forLeftSegmentState:
>
> So my question is: why was this not setTitle(forControlState:) or
> forButtonState, etc...?
>
>
> This is really not an evolution question at this point.  I suggest
> filing radars against UIKit for things whose names could be improved.
>
> --
> -Dave
>
> ___
> swift-evolution mailing list
> swift-evolution@swift.org
> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
>
>
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>
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Re: [swift-evolution] Some clarity lost from the great renaming

[Dennis Lysenko via swift-evolution]

I think if it's one example like in this instance then a compiler directive
to specify mapping if one does not already exist would be a more prudent
option than changing the entire mapping.

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 9:51 PM Hooman Mehr via swift-evolution <
swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

> Is changing the mapping of Cocoa API considered a source breaking change
> or can we report such incidents as bugs if we think they don’t match API
> guidelines?
>
> On Oct 18, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution <
> swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
>
>
> on Tue Oct 18 2016, Brandon Knope  wrote:
>
> I meant to bring this up a bit ago but just came across it again.
>
> I find this to not read properly:
>
> button.setTitle("Test", for: .normal) //for normal what?
>
> The for argument is really only clear in meaning when you are typing
> it out and see that it is a UIControlState type. While reading it
> without this context is it as clear? .normal doesn't seem descriptive
> enough on its own.
>
> Contrast this with UISegmentedControl:
> segmented.dividerImage(forLeftSegmentState: .normal, rightSegmentState:
> .normal, barMetrics:
> .default)
>
> Here the parameter labels are needed because there needs to be a
> distinction in the method between left and right. But here it is not
> forLeft: or forRight: it is the much more clear forLeftSegmentState:
>
> So my question is: why was this not setTitle(forControlState:) or
> forButtonState, etc...?
>
>
> This is really not an evolution question at this point.  I suggest
> filing radars against UIKit for things whose names could be improved.
>
> --
> -Dave
>
> ___
> swift-evolution mailing list
> swift-evolution@swift.org
> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
>
>
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Re: [swift-evolution] Some clarity lost from the great renaming

[Hooman Mehr via swift-evolution]

Is changing the mapping of Cocoa API considered a source breaking change or can 
we report such incidents as bugs if we think they don’t match API guidelines?

> On Oct 18, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> on Tue Oct 18 2016, Brandon Knope  > wrote:
> 
>> I meant to bring this up a bit ago but just came across it again.
>> 
>> I find this to not read properly:
>> 
>> button.setTitle("Test", for: .normal) //for normal what?
>> 
>> The for argument is really only clear in meaning when you are typing
>> it out and see that it is a UIControlState type. While reading it
>> without this context is it as clear? .normal doesn't seem descriptive
>> enough on its own.
>> 
>> Contrast this with UISegmentedControl:
>> segmented.dividerImage(forLeftSegmentState: .normal, rightSegmentState: 
>> .normal, barMetrics:
>> .default)
>> 
>> Here the parameter labels are needed because there needs to be a
>> distinction in the method between left and right. But here it is not
>> forLeft: or forRight: it is the much more clear forLeftSegmentState:
>> 
>> So my question is: why was this not setTitle(forControlState:) or 
>> forButtonState, etc...?
> 
> This is really not an evolution question at this point.  I suggest
> filing radars against UIKit for things whose names could be improved.
> 
> -- 
> -Dave
> 
> ___
> swift-evolution mailing list
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> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution 
> 
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Re: [swift-evolution] Some clarity lost from the great renaming

[Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution]

on Tue Oct 18 2016, Brandon Knope  wrote:

> I meant to bring this up a bit ago but just came across it again.
>
> I find this to not read properly:
>
> button.setTitle("Test", for: .normal) //for normal what?
>
> The for argument is really only clear in meaning when you are typing
> it out and see that it is a UIControlState type. While reading it
> without this context is it as clear? .normal doesn't seem descriptive
> enough on its own.
>
> Contrast this with UISegmentedControl:
> segmented.dividerImage(forLeftSegmentState: .normal, rightSegmentState: 
> .normal, barMetrics:
> .default)
>
> Here the parameter labels are needed because there needs to be a
> distinction in the method between left and right. But here it is not
> forLeft: or forRight: it is the much more clear forLeftSegmentState:
>
> So my question is: why was this not setTitle(forControlState:) or 
> forButtonState, etc...?

This is really not an evolution question at this point.  I suggest
filing radars against UIKit for things whose names could be improved.

-- 
-Dave

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[swift-evolution] Some clarity lost from the great renaming

[Brandon Knope via swift-evolution]

I meant to bring this up a bit ago but just came across it again.

I find this to not read properly:

button.setTitle("Test", for: .normal) //for normal what?

The for argument is really only clear in meaning when you are typing it out and 
see that it is a UIControlState type. While reading it without this context is 
it as clear? .normal doesn't seem descriptive enough on its own.

Contrast this with UISegmentedControl:
segmented.dividerImage(forLeftSegmentState: .normal, rightSegmentState: 
.normal, barMetrics: .default)

Here the parameter labels are needed because there needs to be a distinction in 
the method between left and right. But here it is not forLeft: or forRight: it 
is the much more clear forLeftSegmentState:

So my question is: why was this not setTitle(forControlState:) or 
forButtonState, etc...?

Brandon
Sent from my iPad___
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